Abe Weinstein
Abe Luke Weinstein was born in London, England, in 1907, the son of Harris and Rebecca Weinstein. His father had manufactured furniture in London, employing more than 300 people, but labor troubles led him to leave. After a brief, unhappy stay in Berlin, Harris sailed for the United States, where a Texan he met aboard the ship convinced him to head to Texas. The family first landed in New York, then Harris tried Houston before settling in Dallas, disliking the Houston heat. In Dallas he opened a pecan stand where Neiman Marcus later stood, and after being displaced he peddled secondhand clothes from a horse and wagon and ran a small store in Deep Ellum. Abe had two brothers, Barney and Benny, and two sisters, Minnie and another who lived into her nineties.
In Dallas the family lived first on Swiss Avenue and later on South Boulevard, where Abe helped support his parents. He attended Stephen F. Austin School but left after the sixth grade to go to work, first shining shoes and later selling shoes at Morris Menswear for Morris Weincrantz. A friend and bandleader named Don Averton drew him into the club business in 1933. Abe was bar mitzvahed and grew up attending Shearith Israel, though he described himself as not particularly observant, largely because of the late hours of his profession. He married in 1949; his wife Jenny, though not born Jewish, embraced Judaism and devoted herself to charity work for Bnai Brith, Hadassah, and the black community. After her death, a Bnai Brith chapter was named in her honor.
Abe's clubs became Dallas institutions. He began with the Triangle Club, a taxi dance hall the city closed as immoral, then opened the 25 Club, where Conrad Hilton was a customer and Louis Armstrong performed. He later partnered with Pappy Dolsen to open Abe and Pappy, and after they split he ran Abe's Colony Club, which hosted Mel Torme, Bob Hope on his friend's stage, and the famous stripper Candy Barr, whom Abe managed and named. Located near the assassination sites, his club became a gathering place for journalists after President Kennedy was killed, and his neighbor was Jack Ruby. Abe and Jenny leased a villa in Acapulco, and raised four sons, Mark, Stephen, and twins Larry and Gary, the last of whom became a director with the Jewish Federation of Greater Dallas. Abe retired around 1973 after losing his lease.
Full Transcript
July 25th, 1999, and I'm talking with Mr. Weinstein. How do you like to be addressed? As Abe. And your full name? My full name is Abe Luke Weinstein. Okay. I understand that you had a special situation on how you got that middle name. Well, how I got the middle name, a very dear friend of mine was named Luke. And when I got to get my citizenship papers, they asked me, you've got to have a middle name. We prefer that you have a middle name. The only thing I could think of was my dear friend Luke, and that's how I got it. I never used it.
I only used the initial L, but the real name was Luke. What was your given name? Was it given as Abe? Yes, that's right, Abe. When did your, the earliest member of your family come to the United States, and where did they come from? Well, I was born in London, England, and we arrived in New York. I don't remember exactly how old, but while he was on the, while my daddy was on the ship, he met a Texan, and the Texan talked him into coming to Texas, and that's how it started. And he came to Texas first, to Houston. And he didn't like it. The weather was too bad for him, too hot and muggy.
So he moved to Dallas and that was it. What did he do? What had he done in London? What did he do? What was his occupation? He had 300 people working for him. He manufactured furniture. And? Furniture manufacture. He had over 300. And his? Well, and the reason he left was the union was giving him a bad time, and he was having a lot of trouble with the employees and everything. It was a bad deal there for him So he decided to move So he went to Germany to Berlin He was in Berlin for a week by himself and he didn like it Thank God for that.
So he moved to the United States, and that was that. About what year was that? Oh, gosh, I don't know. I was born in 1907, and I think I was maybe five years old or something like that, five or six years old. I really, I don't recall that. It's been suggested that perhaps 1910, is that possible? Yes, very possible. Yes. And your father's name, what was his name? Harris. H-A-R-R-I-S. My mother's name was Rebecca. Now, had they always lived in London, or had they come from other parts? To my knowledge, my daddy came from somewhere. That I don't know. I don't recall. Certainly. But my mother lived in England.
Did he perhaps come from Central Europe? You don't know? No, I don't. Okay. He dated my mother. It was the first date, the first date he had, and the only date he had. He never dated another girl. He dated her and then married her, and that was the end of it. They were married sixty, about sixty-two, sixty-three years. About when was that? They married, do you know? No, no, that I don't know. I know my mother died in 1950, and I know my dad died about four years later. Now, when he came to the United States, when he came to Texas, or when he came to Dallas, did he stay?
Did he change his occupation? How did he deal with it? Oh, yeah. He went in the clothing business, secondhand clothes. Opened up a little on Deep Ellum, down at Deep Ellum. Opened up a little store a little junk store and that what it was Do you happen to know where in the film And when No I can recall that Before the First World War, do you know? Wait a minute. It was. Do you happen, you said something about having, working with Pecans just a few minutes ago. Said what? When I had asked you about the time frame with your dad with the clothing store, and then you said something about having dealt with pecans.
Can you tell me about that? Well, I think that I got it mixed up. The pecans came before the clothing store. Okay. He opened up a little stand where Nima Marcus says, Now, that's what, yeah. Then when they made him move because they're building a building, for Neiman Marcus, he had to get out. That's when he went into the clothing. He got a wagon, horse and wagon, and he went out peddling old clothes, buying old clothes, and that's what he was. About what year? Or when? During the World War? After the World War? I don't recall. I don't recall what year that would be. About how old were you?
How old was I? Yeah. I don't even know that. Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's been, it's been so many years ago. Yeah. You know, when you get my age, your memory is the second thing to go. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Do you remember if you were bar mitzvah yet? I was bar mitzvahed, yeah. That's not a remember. At that time? Yeah, yeah. That I know. Okay. In fact, somewhere, and I can't find them, I'm trying to find those pictures. It's a picture of me and my bar mitzvah, you know. But I can't find it. When I moved here, everything I put in little sacks and stuff because I don't need it.
And that's the reason I lost track of all of that. Sure, sure. Where did you live when you came to Dallas? Do you remember? What part of the city? Yeah I trying to think now On Swiss Avenue Okay That where it was on Swiss Avenue Do you remember What block I don't recall, but it was close to town. It wasn't far out. Yeah. Some of the buildings, do you remember some of the buildings that were close by or some of the... Where I lived? Yeah. No. In fact, there wasn't any buildings there. It was a residence. Okay. Well, anyway. But I don't even remember what year that would be, you know.
Do you remember if you'd been bar mitzvah again about frame time? That I would. I don't recall that. When, how long, do you remember how long you lived there? About how long? On Swiss? How old were you when you moved? when you moved? No idea. I had no idea. I was quite small. I mean, I was well just young. But, Ginger, the bad part about all of this is my memory is so bad. You know, this happens for you, too. I come in the kitchen, and when I get here, what did I come in here for? you see what I mean I think as we go along maybe you'll think about some of the things that happened that's right that's very true where did you go to school I went to school at Stephen F.
Austin School on I think that was on Swiss Avenue somewhere there but I didn't get I didn't get much education the height of my education was sixth grade public school. Yeah. Sixth grade. That's as high as all the education I got. What happened? How did you I went out to work. My first job was shining shoes. That's the job I had. Shining shoes. And then one thing to another, finally as I got older and everything I stopped doing. I ended up selling shoes in a shoe store. And then I had a friend that was a band leader, orchestra leader. His name was Don Advin. And he was working in a club.
And he's the one that taught me to go into the club business. That's how I got started. That whole, oh good. Yeah, and I stayed in a club, I started in a club business in 1933. Then it went on from there. What was that like? How did he happen to talk you into it? Well, the first club I had, to give you an idea, was called a taxi dance. You know what that is, a taxi dance? Let me explain it. Ten cents a dance. I had 50 women working for me getting taxiderms they get a nickel and I got a nickel the dance was 10 cents and it lasted 3 minutes a guy could dance with her for 3 minutes for 10 cents and that's what it was I was in that for about maybe a year or less when the city closed me.
They said it was immoral than what I was doing. Where was it located? Located on the corner of Pacific, where Pacific meets Live Oak. The Triangle. I called it the Triangle Club. And that's where it was. So when I closed that, I moved over to Main Street, which was a hotel there. And I was right next door to the hotel upstairs, and one of my best customers was Hilton, Conrad Hilton. Because it was his hotel. What was the name of it? What was the name? Do you remember? No, no, we called it. Okay. But he used to hang out at my place. but not hang out.
I mean, you know, he wasn't always in town. When he came in, he'd come up and sit with me. He's a very, very nice gentleman. And he, well, not him, but then that's, I hoped, at the club, and I called it the 25 Club. Everything was 25 cents. And you want to know what, what were years back? That's it. Everything cost you 25 cents to come in Okay We didn serve mixed drinks It was 25 cents for you bought your own liquor and 25 cents for a glass of water you know everything you bought was 25 cents Did you serve mixers, soft drinks? Soft drinks?
I didn't serve liquor, no. No, like Coca-Cola, stuff like that. Was that the 25 cents? 25 cents, everything was 25 cents. What were some of the other things that you had there for 25 cents that you sold? Did you have any food? No. No, I've never had food in all my clubs. But it was ice and water and soft drinks and that stuff and an admission of 25 cents. But one of my best and most famous entertainers was Louis Armstrong. You remember him? Sure. This man was the greatest gentleman that ever, in all my years, that I ever had with Conta. I hired him. I paid him.
I bought him for two nights. I paid him $2,500 for two nights. That's back in the old days now. That's what year? Yeah. Was it during war years? Was it after war? Do you remember about what time? Well, I don't remember that, but I do remember that it was the day, one of the days was Juneteenth, the black community. so what I did I sold him for one day I had him for two days I paid him $2,500 for the two days I sold him to the State Fair for Juneteenth night for $2,500 and I got the other night one night at the club I'll never forget that I don't know I was so smart at that time.
But anyway, that was one of the things that. But he was one of the greatest guys as far as a gentleman. He was the best. And what else can I tell you Well tell me about your Jewish education and holidays how you celebrate Jewish holidays My Jewish education was nothing Very, very little. I went to shul, but I had none. And, of course, when I married my wife, she wasn't Jewish. Or did you know that? Yes. She, but when I married her, she'd become pregnant. Right, you know. So I said, sit down, I want to talk to you. We're going to have a baby. What's it going to be, Jew or Gentile?
You know. She said, I'll never forget this. She said, with a name like Weinstein, it's got to be Jew. From now on, I'm Jewish. she never confirmed what do you call it? Converted? Never converted because I wouldn't let her. She would have. She said, I'm quitting my church and everything. I am Jewish. This is it. I'm going to have a child. The child is Jewish. That was the kind of wife I had. And she was beautiful. Did you see a picture of her? Not that I'm familiar with her. No. Oh, I've got this. Come in. Please, I'll. Listen, this is going to help you. Okay, let me...
Oh, sure. Okay. You were talking about your wife saying she's going to be Jewish. Oh, yeah. Okay, go ahead. And so she did. And she spent most of her time raising money. She was a model. She worked for Foley's, but it wasn't Foley's at that time. That time it was... Sangers, perhaps? Yeah, something like that. When were you married? Married in 1949. Okay. Anyway, she raised money for the B'nai B'rith, Adasa, and all that. She spent her time. One day a week, she worked for the Jewish community, for the black community. Raised money for the black community. The other time, it was raising money for Jewish men.
And that was the story then So when she died she the B B opened up a new chapter and they named it after her You know the Jewish chapter Jenny Weinstein And you realize that the only one in the world that named after a non person Because actually she wasn't Jewish. But I've always take that, you know. Right. When you were very young, what synagogue or did you go to temple? Which affiliation? Went to the Sheriff Israel. Went to the Sheriff. Do you remember how holidays were celebrated then? No. I'm not much of a, I'm not a good Jew really. Well, you know what I mean?
Yeah, I understand, tradition-wise. Yeah, I'm not much because all my life in the nightclub business I was associated with different people, Right, right. We're in an entirely different situation. When you were a little kid, though, didn't you? But I went to Shul, absolutely, you know. Yeah, what was it like? Do you remember? No, not really. Do you remember celebrating Pesach or any of the holidays? What about Pesach? What do you mean? Paso. Yeah, I know. Celebrating, observing. Well, most of the time it was with the family. And, of course, and then when my mother and father passed away, My sister came and lived with my oldest sister and she took care of everything.
And then I had the four boys. We had a black woman, a negro colored woman that worked for us and she thinks that she's the mother. She was very true. I mean this was her kids and she really took care of them, you know, because I worked all the time. But that was the story there. But as far as everything else, what can I tell you? Well, what was Dallas like when you were little? What was Dallas like? What was the Jewish community like when you were little? I can't answer. I don't know. Who were your friends? I don't know. I'm trying to think. I wouldn't know.
I don't know how to answer. Let's talk about shining shoes in those days and what it was like. What was that like? Where did you go to get your customers? Where was your shoe shop? Did you have a stand? Did I? Mm-hmm. No, I didn't have a stand. I was working for somebody that was, it was their business, and I was working as I was doing that. Yeah. Okay. Then when I got older, I sold shoes for a shoe store, Morris Menswear. You remember Morris Menswear? That's where I worked. Morris Weincrantz? Right. I couldn't think of his last name. Sure. Yeah, that's where I worked.
I worked there until the day that I quit and went into the nightclub business. I told you about Don Averton. He's working at the nightclub and doing good, and he took me into opening the club, and that's how I finally got into the club. How did you open that? You said you employed 50 girls when you were doing the taxi things. How did you do that? How? What do you mean how? Well, did you talk to people? Did they apply? I mean, going into business, I mean, that was a lot to undertake. Oh sure. Well, I first did a little advertising, you know, wanted, you know.
How? In the newspaper. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. But that was the start of it. Yeah. And I don't know, one bought on another. I hired a girl or a woman and she bought in five other women. You know, her neighbors and all come to dance. So you know one thing did the next. But the city said it was immoral and it closed me up. Did you have a live band or did you use records? What did you use for music? records. Records. Yeah. At the 25 at the Triangle Club. Right. I had a live band when I moved into the, when I opened up a nightclub, the 25 club.
Oh yeah. Ten pieces. Ten piece band. And I pay them, the ten piece band, I pay them a hundred dollars a week for the ten people. Each one I made ten dollars. You can't believe Even now. Yeah, yeah. Because I'm going, this was back in the 30s, 1933. But, oh yeah. Well go ahead Wait a minute Before I did that I opened up a pharmacist I don know how to explain this It was a pharmacist where you... How could you tell this? Was it a store? Wait a minute. It was a store downtown when I sold whiskey, which was, I wasn't violating the law at that time.
This was after the prohibition, you know. and they would they would come in prescription I was a prescription place that's what it was and I had whiskey they would come in and they would buy the whiskey you know give me a prescription and they think it was for medicine so I'd take it and I'd take it across the street from Walgreens at that time there was a Walgreens there and I took it into Walgreens and had them fill it and then boy you know when they come that was it see I remember this I came took him one prescription to the pharmacist there and he started laughing what did you laugh about it he said this is a prescription for whiskey these things I remember you understand but But then I closed up and went in and I put in this.
That was the start-up. How did they get their whiskey? Or how did you get the whiskey? I don't recall that. I don't know. Okay. Yet it was after Prohibition had been repealed. Then what? They had already decided that you could sell whiskey. Oh, oh yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, that was... but it's so hard for me to remember all of those, you know, it's one of those things, Gemma. Yeah, but as you think about it, you're starting to remember more. But that's about the story there. What else is it now? Did you have any religious training Any type of Sunday school when you were young days Do you remember going to the synagogue on Sunday morning maybe When you were bar mitzvah How did you study for your bar mitzvah Do you remember I don't remember that.
But I remember that the rabbi at the time that I was also named Weinstein. No relative of mine, but it was Weinstein. But no, I don't remember really that. Do you remember what you did? What was the service like? What about your family? How long were they affiliated with Sheriff Issel? Do you, until you were an adult or always or not? Did he change? My family. Me and my boys, sons. Well first let's talk about your parents and then tell me what you did. Yeah, I don't recall that. You don't remember? I really don't. Okay. I don't know. What do you remember? Did they grow up in which synagogue or temple?
Or did they grow up in temples? Sheriff Israel. Sheriff Israel. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because my wife, she's Jewish. She had to be, but they named a chapter after her. You know what I mean? She shows you what she did for her. Right. But no one, or did anybody question where she was when you joined Sheriff? Yes, or we kept your membership. You just kept your membership, isn't it? Oh, yeah. What about Jewish organizations? What? Jewish organizations. Yeah, what about it? Were you a member of any of the Jewish organizations, or if so, which? Were you a member of maybe of B'nai B'rith? Do you know why your wife decided to work for B'nai B'rith in Hondas?
No, she wanted to do charity work. And that was it. Somebody, I think Robbins, Dr. Robbins, do you remember him? Jack Robbins. I think he talked her into it. Okay. Those were back in the days, way back. Okay. Okay. You know. Uh huh. Okay. Um, what, all right now, what about when you opened your last club or what were the clubs after your downtown club? Yeah I had the 25 club My competitor was Pappy Dolson Okay And he was downtown And he was bugged and doing much business and everything So he talked to me and said, why don't we get together and open a place downtown.
And I said, good idea, very good. So we decided to do that. Then what were we going to name it? He said, well, you got to the 25 Club and he was something else, some name, some good name. And I said, oh, no, no. Let's take advantage of our reputation. And we'll name it Abe and Pappy. You should remember Abe and Pappy. That's way back across the office hotel where the comedy club it was. Abe and... No, he said, Pappy and Abe. He said, I'm older, Dad. I said, no way. I said I'm older than you are but as far as old that don't mean anything it be Abe and Pappy or forget it he said okay okay and that's what it was Abe and Pappy and we opened up that club there then he the war started and he wanted to do something, I forget everything.
And I wasn't in favor of it. So he said, okay, let's separate. We'll split. And he opened up a club right off the highway called Pappy Showland. Do you recall that? Everybody does. And I said, okay, and I called mine Abe's Colony Club, and that's About what year was that you remember? I should remember that. Gosh. Was it after the war? Yeah, it was after that. That was the thing, that the war is what brought the whole thing on. It was after the war. The Mel Tomei work for me was in 1953. See, and I was in my club in a way. So this was way after the war, yeah.
What was it like having a club then? Did you have a lot of people during the week? Was it only Saturday night? Did you have Jewish trade, non-Jewish trade? pretty good business because I had some pretty good acts I give them good in but the most important act that that brought the people in was a girl named candy bar a candy bar was a waitress for me her name wasn't candy bar her name was Juanita Slusher. What a name, Slusher. But I used to, I had strippers, I had strippers working there at the time, and she used to say, I can do better than that.
She told me, I said, okay, Friday, every Friday at noon, you come here and we'll try you out, you know. And so now, so she's sitting there, and it was her time to go on stage for a tryout. And I said, and I didn't know her name. I mean, I knew it, but I could. I said, hey, oh, she was always eating a candy bar. That's what I meant. She always come there eating a candy bar. I said, hey, hey, candy bar. It's your time. That's what I named her. I was her manager. her. She made me a fortune. I'm very famous, but she was very, very hard to get along with.
Oh, but I couldn't do anything about it because she was my main attraction. You know what I mean? But she was, oh, she was just one of those things. Had she changed from the time when she was a waitress to the time she became famous And known as Candy Bar? Yeah, yeah, it was no different. And she knew that she'd become, you know, and I made her famous. I publicized her every day, you know, all the time. And she packed the house So one night the house was full She doesn show up for work I called her at home with no answer So I had to give some of the people the money back, not all of them, but we had a good show going.
But somehow we just came to see Candy Bar. I said, okay, what was the price to get in with $2? dollars. And so the next night when she come to work, where were you? No, what happened? She said, well, the Lord told me not to come to work. That's the only answer I got. One night she's working and her boyfriend was sitting in the audience there with another girl. And she, now she's dancing. And she spots him. She stopped dancing. Went out there. And at that time, you order beer in a bottle. They don't bring glass there. Back there. she come over to his table and she grabbed this air bottle and hit him over the head with it went back on the floor and danced and started dancing again that was the kind of girl anyway that's it oh boy I understand that you did some collecting for federation in the pawn shop area in Deep Elm you would solicit for Jewish federation I don't recall that.
You don't recall that? Okay someone told me. Actually Gary mentioned that you had... I probably did do something but I don't recall it. You don't remember? Weincrantz. When you worked for Weincrantz, do you remember where his store was at that time? Yeah it was on Main Street where Stone comes into Main Street. Near the Palace Theater? No it wasn't near any theater. Wasn't near the Palace? Okay. No. You know where Nemo Marcus was? Well, it was right down the street from Nemo Marcus. And that's about the story. Of course, when President Kennedy was shot, they had journalists, reporters from all over the world come to Georgia.
And at night they hung up at my club And that was something to see really That was their hangout Every night that they were there they all hung out at the club But otherwise, everything was not the same, not much difference. What about Jack Ruby? Yeah. He was two doors away from me. I'm here, and there was a parking station there, and then Jack Ruby. Jack Ruby was a Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde he was so different I mean if you came to him and said look I'm hungry I don't have a place to sleep he would take care of you he would feed you or do everything if he didn't like you he'd stick a knife in you just like that I used to have a doctor Highland Park doctor used to be one of my best customers.
But he's telling me the story. Oh, I didn't see him for quite a while. He used to come up there. He was very nice. And then I didn't see him for a long time. When I finally met him on the street, I said, Doctor, where were you? I missed you and everything. He said, well, I'll tell you. He said, you know, from Holland Park, I'm the doctor there in Holland Park. He said, one night I went up to Jack Ruby's. I had a friend, another doctor came here from California, and I wanted to show him everything, and I took him to Jack Ruby's. And we stayed there for a while, and I didn't care for it, so I said, let's go.
So going down the steps, I told him, I said, I'm going to take you next door and show you a real good club, something that you really will enjoy. What I didn't know was Jack Ruby was walking behind us. He was coming out, walking down, and he heard that. When I got down to the bottom of the steps, he turned me around and hit me in the mouth and knocked out my teeth. He said, I couldn't report it to the police. What am I doing? The big doctor in Highland Park. What am I doing in the joint there? So he said, that's what happened. Sure, I didn't come.
That's the reason you hadn't seen me. But that a true story About when was that Was that the time before the assassination No Jack Ruby one week before he killed Oswald he threatened to kill me But I didn't take it serious because knowing him, and the reason he was going to kill me is because he used to come up to my club and try to hire my waitresses and my ex and this and everything. So I told my security man not to let him in anymore. So he told him, Jack Ruby, Jack Ruby told him, okay, I'll take care of Abe. That was a week before he killed him.
It didn't worry me because I know he was just talking, but that's what it was. Had you had any conversation with him after Kennedy was killed? No. No. But that sounds nice. What else if I got to report? Well, after, later, after you, how did you happen to close the store, the club? What happened? Well, I lost the lease. And the reason they wouldn't renew it, because they had sold the building to some big, some other, whatever they did with it. They gave me ten, I had six more months to go, and they gave me $10,000 to move out now. So I took the $10,000, and that was the story there.
Was that still at, close to the, what was it? It's across the street from that office. As a matter of fact, I lived at that office. My window overlooked my club, the room I was in. And yeah, that was it there. So I moved. I closed it and that was it. I retired. That was in 70, I think it was 73 or something like that. So that was a long time after the Kennedy situation. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Was it still as popular when you closed it as it had been early on? No, not as much, but I was still doing business. The Conley Club was very popular.
That's one thing about it. It was popular. I had, The mayor used to be my best customer. You know, I had them all. Which mayor were you talking? Which mayor was it? I don't recall. I don't remember. How had it changed over the years? What? The club and the people that came there. Or had it changed? No, I don't think it changed. Okay. No, I was doing business. Because I had good acts. I had the kind of acts they liked. and I had always had some good stripper or two, and then candy bar did fantastic business. Oh, there's no question. As long as I had candy bar there.
But after that, there was... The age of your customers is what I had in mind, and whether they were more men and women and, you know, couples, did that change during that period of time? or over the years? Well, I'll tell you, I had mostly older people. I didn't have too much young people. They were older people. But I had real good acts. I mean, really, it was like Mel Torme, Bob Hope. See, Bob Hope worked on my state, but he didn't work for me. what happened was his friend worked for me was a comedian MC and every time Bob came to Dallas he used to come up to the club and when he did he'd get up on the stage and work too so he didn't he worked for me but he didn't work for me you see what I mean?
sure sure and that was it and a lot of people that seen him used to tell other people so they come up thinking maybe, you know. But it was a great, I learned a lot in the business. I mean, it was, I had a lot of experiences. But overall, I think it was okay. Mel Tomei was great. Well, you'll read the letter when you get around to it. About where was he in his career when you had Mel Tomei? Where what? Where was he? Has he already gotten famous? Was he just coming up? Did a lot of people know about him? Oh yeah oh yeah yeah He was really new not new but I mean it was early in his career Mm No he wasn new He been in a business for a long time Mm-hmm.
But it was, you know. Mm-hmm. No, he was well, he was famous. Mm-hmm. So I paid him good. Mm-hmm. Who are some of the other people that worked for you, did stints? Oh, gosh. I have so many, I can't even think of now. Wait a minute. How do you know? I don't recall. Okay. I don't recall. Okay. How was your family? Let's talk about your family a little bit. How many brothers and sisters did you have? I had two brothers and two sisters. My two brothers died of heart attacks. One of them was a party. He owned a theater lounge, which I talked him into to do it.
Had my money, too. But he died, he was 71, died of a heart attack. My youngest brother and the youngest in the family was Benny. He was 60 and he died of a heart attack. He was at a pawn shop in Ross Avenue. My two sisters, my older sister was Minnie. She died at the age of 97. She lived in Washington, Virginia. And her youngest, not the youngest, but the other sister, who is now 95, lives in Golden In fact, I was there just the day before yesterday. My niece took me there, but she didn't know me. She's completely out of it. She just didn't know for nothing.
What was your oldest brother's name? My oldest what? Brother. You said you had two brothers. I told you Barney was 71 and Benny was 61 Okay I didn remember you said Barney Okay And what was your family like Did you have relatives living with you when you were growing up No. Going and coming, my sister Minnie, who was married to, Amy O'Basson, they used to come stay with me a lot. And not too much. Not too much. But my 20 years of marriage was very nice. Very, very nice. Jenny and I used to go to Acapulco every six weeks. We leased a villa there. Excuse me.
Every six weeks. And Aunt Bertha, she wasn't my aunt, they called her Aunt Bertha. She was Bertha Weintraub. Do you remember the name Weintraub? Yes. Yeah. She worked for me for 27 years. So when I was gone, I was able to go, she took Colbert. God bless her. She died. She was 104 when she died. I guess. Well, I lived at Swiss Avenue. Where did you move from Swiss Avenue and about how old were you? I don't know. I can't remember that. You don't remember where the family moved from Swiss Avenue or did they? Oh, did they? He's right. I don't know. You know what I mean?
Yeah. No, I don't know. When I first got married, I lived, I don't even remember, some little house. But then we built a nice home on Westmere Circle. Ben Rosenthal built it for me. It was a Japanese home. Had a waterfall in the dining room. Had a little waterfall. It was a Japanese home, you know. And had a bridge You walk in you go over the bridge and all the way Oh it was beautiful But then when my wife died I couldn stay there too long I sold my house for $90,000. It cost me $100,000 to build. I sold it for $90,000 to a very nice woman.
and maybe let me see maybe two years after that or one or maybe a year after that I don't know I was driving down there and she was outside and I stopped hello and everything she says I'm moving I sold the house I'm moving to Florida I said you sold out she said yeah I said could you would you tell me what you get for what you got for it yeah I'll tell you three hundred and twenty-five thousand but it was some house yeah and I had swimming pool and everything but that's it and I sold it for ninety you don't know you don't know Do you remember about the year?
Do I what? Remember about when that was that she sold it? Well, let's see now. I'm trying to remember. No, I don't know. It's okay. I don't know. Oh, tell me about your children. You have four children, four boys. Four boys. Two of them live in Austin. And their names are? Mark is the oldest, Stephen is the next. Mark has a 17 year old daughter and two months ago he got another wife got pregnant. After 17 years I didn't think that's possible. Another girl, Mark Stephen, has got three girls to start with. He's got a girl that's going to college in Waco at Baylor University or something.
Three girls. They live in Austin, the two of them. And the other two live here, Mark and Larry, who is with the Casino in Las Vegas, Mandalay Bay, the new one. And that's the twin to Gary. Mm-hmm. And you know what Gary does. Yes, but you can tell us. Yeah, yeah. Gary is the Federation Director. Yes, Vice President. Jewish Federation of Greater Dallas. Yeah. Well, you see, he's the only one that really got education. The rest of them, they went to college for a year and they quit. That's my fault I let them. I shouldn't have let them. But their mother was gone and everything.
I blame myself for that. But Gary said, no, I want to go to the University of Tel Aviv. Okay, that's what you want. You got it. I went there three times to visit him. And then he come back and he went to work for the Federation and that was it Well what has the Jewish community been like from where you sit over the years I've never been associated with the Jewish community. Being in the business I was in, and then the hours I was in, I didn't go to bed until 4 in the morning. I didn't go to work until noon and you know I was so busy when I went back to the club at noon and I would stay there until about four o'clock in the afternoon five o'clock go home with my family and just I didn't get to any Jewish community.
When I first got married, Jenny and I went to show every weekend, you know, on Fridays. Well I thank you very much Do you have anything else to offer in terms of your memories No I was just thinking it myself I don think there anything else I got to tell you Let see what time is it now It's 11.30? It's 11.30. Yeah. Just told me something very interesting about living on South Boulevard. This is July 25, 1999. Talk about South Boulevard and you're living on South Boulevard, eh? So what can I say? Well, you said that you were helping bring in some finance, some money for the family when you lived on South Boulevard.
I supported my mother and father. Okay. What were you doing then? What was I doing then? I was always, I've been in the nightclub business over 60 years. So I guess I was in the nightclub business. Oh, you were already on the nightclub business after when you did that. When you were doing shoes when you were a kid, where did you live? Had you moved to South of the Boulevard yet No no no Didn I live on Swiss Avenue Yeah I think that what it was Okay. And did you, when you started signing, shining shoes, were you still living on Swiss Avenue? I think it was, yeah.
Okay. Do you remember or have it, how old were you when they moved to South Boulevard? I don't know. Oh, that you do remember. I don't know, Ginger. It's been so long ago, and like I said in my memory, you know, you probably have the same problem with a lot. Yeah. And I don't recall that. It wasn't that important to me, you know, at the time. Sure. If I had known then that I've got to do this now, maybe I would have been there. Yeah, I understand. Okay. Anything else you can think about? Over the years. Not really. Everything's been about the same, you know.
I retired when I was in. I see. Okay. Yeah.