Alfred Brauman
Alfred Brauman's grandparents came to the United States from Europe in the 1880s, seeking a better life. His father's family included two boys and two girls, and his mother, a Rosenthal, was one of three sisters. His parents were educated in New York and spoke fine English. His father manufactured clothing on Broadway for many years before entering the construction business in Brooklyn after World War I. The family lived in Borough Park, a very religious, kosher-keeping Orthodox community, where young Alfred attended a yeshiva as well as public school. He had a younger brother, Seymour, who worked with their father in construction and died at age 46.
Originally intending to become an architect and registered at Pratt Institute, Brauman fell ill with acute rheumatic fever while attending Brooklyn College at night and working six days a week. On doctors' advice, his family sent him to Arizona for his health. He attended Phoenix Junior College and then the University of Arizona in Tucson before coming to Dallas. Accepted at both the University of Southern California and Baylor, he chose Baylor at his father's suggestion because it was closer to home. He began Baylor Dental School in 1934 and graduated in 1938. He married Miriam Turner, a Dallas native, on December 10, 1939, and the couple raised three daughters and had three grandchildren.
At Baylor, Brauman experienced anti-Semitism from students and faculty, describing himself as one of the few Jewish students alongside a Mexican classmate. He opened his practice in the Medical Arts Building during the Depression, aided greatly by colleagues Dr. Harold Block and Dr. Lyle Sellers. He belonged to county, state, and American dental associations, was a Mason and Shriner, and supported numerous Jewish organizations. Speaking Yiddish, he provided dental care to Jewish refugees. He helped charter the local Alpha Omega dental fraternity chapter, kept it active through lean years, studied for years under Dr. Bernard Gottlieb, and supported the dental school in Israel. He also served on dental finance committees and helped start savings and loans and a bank in Dallas.
Full Transcript
I am Dr. William Palmer Rams. Today is March 16, 1988, and I am interviewing Dr. Alfred Brownman at his home, located at 11430 Park Chester, Dallas, Texas 75230. Our oral history program is jointly sponsored by the National Council of Jewish Women and Dallas Historical society. Al, tell us why, when, and where did your Brownman grandparents come to the United States? They came to the United States in the 1880s, and I presume they didn't have it so good in Europe, and that's the reason they came to the United States. did they have any of their family in Europe or were they all born here in the United States who you mean your grandparents my grandparents no my grandparents were born in Europe yeah but their children oh their children yes some of most of them were born in the United States and some of the old ones were born in Europe and came over as babies How many boys and girls did they have in their family?
Well, on my father's side, there were two boys and two girls, and on my mother's side, there were three girls. Your mother's family was a Rosenthal family? Yeah, my mother's family was Rosenthal, my grandpa Rosenthal. What was his first name? Julius. And her mother? And her mother's name was Bella. And her brothers and sisters? Um they didn I guess they were left in Europe because I don remember any of my grandparents relatives in the United States Grandpa Rosenthal always said that he had some relatives in the South, but he never could point a finger and say when. and they probably came over maybe in the 50s or 60s or 70s in the 1800s but we never knew who, what, and when because they had lost contact I see well now did your mother have some brothers and sisters?
no, my mother did not have any brothers she had two sisters one of which is living now and she's only a few years older than me that was my aunt and we were brought up more like sister and brother than aunt and nephew now your mother and father they were educated in New York that's where you're that's right they went to school in New York and they spoke real fine English and without any accents well what business was your father in? well my father used to manufacture clothing in 718 Broadway for years and years and years and finally after World War I he decided he was going to do something else and he went into the construction business and he used to build houses for himself and as expected...
what part of New York was he building in? in Brooklyn, yeah he was part of the Brooklyn Builders Association and what area of Brooklyn was that? generally around New Yertrick Avenue and 66th Street and that general area was your mother educated in New York City? yes she was also went to New York schools sure was well in those days they had a lot of Hebrew education oh yes and their uh uh shuls oh the shuls were all over the place were they orthodox? they were very orthodox and kept kosher naturally and I went to I had to go to the yeshiva too shiva Eitz Chaim on 13th Avenue in Borough Park which was a very religious community and it still is all Jewish is that the area where some of the Lubavitch uh yeah there sure is and they all over the place and they own the whole strip yeah it's a very very religious community it was religious when I was a kid but now it's that much more now were y'all living in the same area of Borough Park that the family had lived in earlier?
Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And you went to Yeshiva in Borough Park? I went to the Yeshiva in Borough Park, and when I went to public school, I also went to the public school in Borough Park, plus graduated New York High School, which was in Brooklyn, but a little way out of Borough Park. Now, the public school you went to, what number was it? 103. P.S. 103 now when you had uh were you sick with rheumatic heart? well I had gotten sick I was going to college at night Brooklyn College at night and was working six days a week. My father didn't want me to work on Saturday, so I worked all day Sunday, six days a week.
In about three months' time, I kind of broke down. My mother was very nervous, and she heard a couple of doctors say that you don't find acute traumatic fever very much in Arizona. So before you could say, Jack Robinson, I'm in Arizona. And that's the way I got out of New York. I went to the Phoenix Junior College, and then after I got through with that, then I went to the University of Arizona. And from the University of Arizona in Tucson, I came to Dallas. I see. Well, now, were you the only child in your family? No, I had a younger brother. What was his name?
Seymour and he passed away at age 46 and that's it. How many years difference between you and Seymour? Five and a half years difference Was he in business there in New York or He was in business mostly with my father yes And he was in the construction business and he knew it backwards and forwards Had he taken any training in the building industry? Yeah, the School of Hard Knocks. School of Hard Knocks. Yes. A very good school. A very good school. and basically I was supposed to be an architect and I had been registered in Pratt Institute and then when I got sick of course that all stopped well you didn't want to pursue architect anymore and what made you decide to go into dentistry I don't know there was a fellow Jewish dentist in Borough Park that I liked very very much and I wanted to be like him.
What was his name? I forget his name. It's a long, long time ago. I must have made up my mind when I was eight, nine years old. Did you do anything around his office? No, just a minute. His name was Dr. Hyman, as I recall. Yeah, Dr. Hyman, a very, very nice, sweet gentleman. Where did he go down school? I don't know. I don't know. I was just a young kid. Well what year did you come to Baylor then? I came to I started Baylor in 1934 and got out in 1938 and this year makes 50 years of practicing Well was there anything in particular why you selected Baylor?
Yes, I was, I could have gone to two schools. I was accepted at the University of Southern California, and I was accepted at Baylor. And I wrote home and asked my father what he thought I ought to do. And those were the years children used to ask their parents what to do. And so he said, well, California was 3,000 miles away from home, and Baylor was only 15 miles, 100 miles away from home. so he says why don't you go to Baylor so that's what I did are you glad you went to Baylor? I think so Dallas has been extremely good to me and I'm very grateful for every minute of it uh what experience As far as student life and a Jewish student life in Baylor Dental School.
In the Baptist School? Yes. Are you kidding? I was a little man on a totem pole constantly. There was a Mexican boy in my class. We started out. He was from Chihuahua, a fellow by the name of Celso Reveille. He was a wonderful man. And he and I were the token Mexican and I was the token Jew in the class. Do you ever see this doctor? I haven't seen him in 20 years, but my memories of him was very good, and he was an absolute genius. He had phonographic and phonographic mind. He could remember anything, or if he heard anything, he could remember. And he'd come to my room, and I'd teach him everything I knew.
20 years later you ask him a question about that subject and he knew every bit of it because he had that kind of a retentive mind. I wish I had it. Were there other students from Mexico with him? No, he was the only one. He was the only one in your class. He was the only one. So we were the both of us with a low man on the totem pole. Did he practice in the United States after graduation? Yes, he went back to El Paso. and then then I imagine now he must be someplace in Mexico City I don't know I really don't I lost track of him you said you graduated in what year?
38 1938 yeah did you open your dental office upon graduation? Sure did, in the Medical Arts Building, and I was, we, Dr. Lyle Sellers and Harold Block from Waco and I were in the same office. We shared reception rooms. Were there any of the other doctors in the adjoining suites that were your neighbors and some of the dentists? Dr. Neiman was a dentist, a Jewish dentist on the fifth floor of the Medical Arts Building, and then there was Dr Fox was in the building and then later on Dr Levy came in the building and that was all in the Medical Arts Building because at that particular time that was the place to be Well, Dr.
Max Silverman... Dr. Max Silverman was over in the Southwestern Life Building and I imagine he was the first Jewish dentist in Dallas, if I'm not mistaken. Did you know Dr. Wasserman? He was a refugee. Dr. Wasserman, I sure did. Dr. Eugene Wasserman, and I spent many an hour with him in his office. He was on the same floor, and he'd tell me all kind of stories. I was a great audience fan. In fact, I used to call him Eugenio, and when he died, I paid a condolence call to his wife, and I said, we're talking about Eugenio. She says, I notice you always call him Eugenio.
Why do you do that? I says, because that's what it says on his diploma. She says, oh, no, it doesn't. I says, you want to bet? And sure enough, she called me three days later, and she says, you're absolutely right. Would you like to have his diploma? and his diploma is on my wall in my office today yeah he was a fine man fine gentleman and a good skinned man fine gentleman I learned a lot from him he's a good musician he loved music yes he did he used to refer to himself the last of the big piano thumpers and he used to kid himself can you recall any of the other uh Jewish professional men in your area there?
Dr. Leo Davis was an eye doctor and his father was a nose and throat doctor on the same floor and they were very nice and then there was one more brother Berthal Davis and he practiced in Denton oh really? the two brothers I didn't know him. Yes. I didn't know him. They were very nice but did you know a Dr. Morris ever? Did you know Jane Morris No I don believe so The name doesn ring any bells Dr Jablow Yes I remember Dr Jablow and I remember Dr Friedman Sam Friedman? Sam Friedman, yes. And I remember Harry Levy's father was a physician. Yes, sir. Fine fellow, nice man.
Always looked great. I mean, he always looked like he stepped out of the band box. Always looked neat and nice. he looked like a doctor very very nice guy very good and that's that's about and then no there was a Sam Dr. Sam Kahn K-A-H-N, you remember him? well he was related to Dr. Jablow I believe they might have had an office together and then there was a Dr. Cinnamon Al Cinnamon I think he's still living yeah Jimmy Alexander's wife that's right it's her father yeah he used to heckle me all the time he's a nice guy really and can you think of any others besides them as yet yeah I think that's the crop oh there was one guy of gee willikers I forgot he was on the staff at Baylor and I forgot his name.
He talked with an accent and they used to call him, forget what his name was, The Baptist. And they put up with him and I forgot his name and that name completely escapes me. Dr. Wolfe, did you know him? Oh yeah, Paul Wolfe. Oh sure, he used to share offices with with what you call it Eugenio Wasserman Paul Wolf yes worked on the whole family sure did and he did what you call it work GYN mostly delivered babies well did you know Dr. Segal he wasn't down to medical arts no he wasn't down the medical arts building he practiced in South Dallas yes I know him he was related to Sidney Segal and that family the whiskey people do you know Dr Albert Newman or he was out of the medical arts building I believe by the time you started to practice then Yeah well I heard of him but I didn know him He had his office there on Forest in Heartwood there.
No I don't think I knew him. Then of course there was Arthur Gottlidge. Arthur. And Saul Katz. Billy Aronoff. Billy Aronoff and I graduated together. 1938 that was a hard-working fellow I'll tell you he studied I mean he really studied and he deserved everything he got yeah can you remember some of the Jewish students that were in dental school with you well there was a guy by the name of Krumholz and he I think believe it came from Tyler or Austin I I think he's practicing in Austin. Remember Aaron Krumholz? Very nice guy. Yeah. And Fox, and there was one boy from Arizona, and that's about it.
There was very, very few. Very, very few in the school. Well, Levy. Well, Levy, yeah. You're welcome. Yeah, but I had gotten out of school after that. I mean... Was he two years behind you or something like that? I think he was more than that yeah were there any of the Jewish medical students that you remember oh yeah there was a slew of them there was a whole bunch of them and in fact is what happened was there were so many of them that couldn't get in school up in the east that come down to Dallas and got in school and the fact is there were so many they decided to cut it out and so they would take two Jewish boys in a year and bust one of them so it only took four years to only have four Jewish boys in the school.
The entire school? In the entire medical school yes sir. And that was out of how many total students? Well there must have been at least About 120, 100? No, there was about 120 in dental school, all told, but in the medical school there must have been at least 200, 250, at least. Twice as many medical students as it were dental students. Can you remember any of the names of some of the medical students? Well, you know, I just ran on to this. Here is the class of 1938. And the ones with the X through are the ones that are dead. so there must be 12 or 13 of them still living when you were in dental school did you experience any anti-semitic feelings there I knew I wasn't on the hit parade, that's for sure.
And, yeah, of course I had to work like the devil, and I expected to work like the devil. And I did, and I didn't fool around. And I had several unpleasantnesses. And so, but I always put that back of me. I never dwelled on it, because all it would do is make you feel bad. So I just went on about my business. One of the bad things was the fact that they didn't know I was Jewish because my name didn't sound Jewish, and my records came from the University of Arizona, so they wasn't suspicious of me. So they invited me to belong to the Delta Sigs.
And so when they found out that I was Jewish, it was a different ball game. And so one day this Mexican fellow, Salso Revia, came up to me and he says, I've got some, they gave me an assignment I don't really like to do. And so he told me that they had made a mistake by asking me to join. And they just had a, they told him to ask me to beg off. And they begged off. and so that was the end of that. But basically I didn't feel too uncomfortable. There were several episodes that really showed some of those boys real feelings but I went on like Old Man River and I heard what I wanted to hear and I didn hear what I didn want to hear Well, did you have some experience with some of the other students?
Yes, there was one fellow there that was, whose brother was the head of the Crown and Bridge Department and I was in one of the houses one time, one of the fraternity houses, and I just happened to be looking over somebody's shoulder. They were always messing with something, and I just peeked over one of the fellows' shoulder, and he turned around to me and he says, What's built to do? God for don't to you to do. And so that was Henry Knudsen, And so everybody turned around and looked at me, and I said, Henry, don't you ever talk to me again. If you do, I'll have to beat you in the head with a brass pipe if I have to.
And, of course, everybody else in the room later on came and apologized for what he said. But that was one of the worst episodes that I had. But there was always, you know, things like some of the southern boys did not want to remove teeth or work on blacks. And so it was my job to work on the blacks. And actually, I think it served me well because I got some very, very good experience extracting teeth for blacks. did you have any occasion to experience any anti-semitic feeling from any member of the faculty yes that too and uh but I don't want to dwell on that to just rake up old memories I know it doesn't serve any useful purpose and I'd rather not dredge it up well when you graduated and got into opening your office that was in depression days yes it was it was in August and September of 1938 did you find it very difficult in trying to build a practice in and to open an office it was tough it was tough it was real tough I was buried alive nobody knew me I knew from nobody And if it wasn for Dr Harold Block and if it wasn for Lyle Sellers I have probably starved to death because everybody knew where they were going before they came to the building, and I got no drop-ins.
I got no nothing. And it was tough, really tough. And it was tough sledding for a long, long time. Well, they were very nice to you. They were excellent. They treated me like a younger brother. Couldn't have been nicer. And like I say, if it wasn't for them and the few patients that they could send me, I'd have starved to death. That was tough, tough years, real tough years. What professional organizations do you belong to? Well, I belong to the County Dental Association, I belong to the Texas Dental Association, I belong to the American Dental Association. I'm a Mason, a Shriner, 32nd degree. Belong to all the Jewish organizations.
What are some of the Jewish organizations you belong to? Well, Hebrew Free Loan, Sheriff Israel. Brotherhood of Sheriff Israel. Brotherhood of Sheriff Israel. the Federation and for years I was the only one that helped out with the Russians when they came over about what period of time was that, what years? that was in the early 40s early 40s? yeah, well let me see after World War II yeah, after World War II time slips away you know 10 years means nothing to me maybe it was in the 50s I don't remember I really don't I don't remember what I had for breakfast this morning but I was the only one I was the only dentist that knew how to talk Yiddish and so naturally I got all the business were these refugees from Poland Russia all over Europe The most frustrating thing was when they sent me a Jewish man from Greece and I found out that he could not talk Yiddish, and that his Yiddish was a bastard Spanish, and that's called Ladino, and I didn't know Ladino existed, and he and I could not communicate.
could you get any help in interpretation yeah they had to send somebody with him because I couldn't understand him at all and my Spanish is so limited he didn't understand me and I couldn't understand him but did you know that there was such a thing as Ladino I've heard of something like that a long way but I never looked into it It's Spanish-Jewish, Jewish-Spanish. The Jews in Spain used to speak that. And in fact, just like in Yiddish, they have Jewish characters. Well, they have the same Jewish characters, but it's in Spanish. The pronunciation is in Spanish. and all the Jews that lived around the mouth of the Mediterranean spoke Ladino the Italians the Turks the Greek Jews the Spanish Jews the Portuguese Jews all spoke a Ladino and I never knew it I thought all Jews spoke Yiddish and they didn't well Yiddish was more into the European heartland there and Yiddish evolved from all that and then it came over into New York and got the dialects okay now you were you helped to charter the Alpha Omega Dental Fraternity Jewish Dental Fraternity yeah the boys came to me and they needed somebody as an outside as a graduate to help them as an advisor And so, Goldstein, Marvin Goldstein from Atlanta, flew in and Dr.
Gotalev. And weren't you with that group, Tony? I think I hadn't gotten back from the Navy as yet. And we met in the Hebrew School in South Dallas, and there was just a handful, maybe six individuals. Was that the total number of Jewish students in the school? I think there was three Jewish students in the school at that time, Leon Cohen and Ed Ornish, and there might have been one other guy and I forget now who. Mercy Smith? No, no, Mercy Smith was there for about one year and then he busted out. now it's too bad because he could have made it and he was a bright boy I don't think he was applying himself I don't think he applied himself but there was no reason for him not to yeah now you mentioned Dr.
Bernard Bernhard Gottlieb yeah now can you tell us about Dr. Gottlieb Dr. Gottlieb yeah Dr. Gottlieb was one of the world's biggest authorities on dental pathology He was the first doctor in the dental profession that had the scientific research Yes, right, that's right I asked him one night, taking him home to South Dallas, he lived in South Dallas now with dr. Gottlieb he formed or a group of you formed a study club that worked with him and studied with him yeah we studied with him every Monday night at Baylor for about seven years who were some of the Dallas dentists that were in that group Well it was Harry Crawford Dr Crook um Barron?
Barron, who did, who was the first man in Dallas who do, who did Root Canal, begged me to do Root Canal, and I said I don't like it, and I just never did, and Harold Younger, and we had, I guess, maybe 12 or 13, and Dr. Bill Lewin, and I'm thinking, let's see, well, maybe I'll think of it after a while, but I asked him why he came to Baylor, and he said well he said Baylor was the only school in the United States at the time that did not have a chair in research and he says every other school had one and most of them were ex-students of Gottlieb and he says how would it be if I was a junior member under one of my students and he says I couldn't do that.
So I had to find me a school that did not have a chair in research and be the head of the department because that's the only way he could work. He took orders from nobody. He was a tough old bird, but a genius. He was one of the first to start the research into the fluoridation. Fluoridation and also periodontia. he really his slides he donated half to the U.S. Army and half to the school in Israel the dental school in Israel and they were so happy to get them well he had the first real scientific slides for the dental pathology right then he did the work with the fluoridation out of the work of West Texas and Death Smith County.
Right, right. He was basically an MD that specialized in dentistry Where he was in Austria he from Vienna Yeah, he was from Vienna. Basically, he never did like... he never liked to say where he was from, and he claimed he was a Viennese. He was born in Poland, but he spent most of his life in Vienna. He was schooled in Vienna and went to it? He was schooled in Vienna, yeah. And that's what he claimed as his home. Well, he did lose quite a lot of his slides and scientific material when the Germans went into Austria. Yes, they did. And, you know, and I'll tell you the truth, Baylor didn't treat him too good either.
he had the lousiest looking office you ever saw in the basement and what they gave him to work with was pitiful was pitiful really pitiful I worked with some of that did you work with him? well then I don't have to tell you you knew that was horrendous yes the lousy spot that they had given him it was a shame and a disgrace right What, now you've had some clinical work too that you've worked in some of the clinics and Yeah, we did in my younger years we worked over there in Little Mexico and we did some work down there and a few things here, there and yonder.
We used to work for the Golden Acres and the usual. Didn't you help start some programs at Golden Acres for the dental programs? Yeah, we started that, and I used to go there on a regular basis. And then finally, they didn't have the proper equipment and whatnot, and then I just quit going. After they turned down, I had offered them all my equipment when I came out of the Medical Arts Building because I got new, And they turned it down. And when they did that, I didn't understand why. But they turned it down. So there no sense in going And of course these people need to have things done on an emergency basis and whatnot and there was nothing to work with Well, you've been very helpful with the dental school in Israel.
The Alpha Omega's had a program to help, and you've been working and helped with that quite a bit, haven't you? Well, we did, yes, through Alpha Omega. They're a great help nationally. Oh, we're only one little finger off of the main body of Alpha Omega. Alpha Omega is an international fraternity, and they have dentists all over the world, and they all contribute whatever they can in their brain power, in their knowledge, in their money, in their everything. And yes, we support Israel and the dental school. a lot of the Russian dentists that came out of Russia they try well the ones that are in the United States for instance have to go back to school for a couple of years we try to help them get reestablished there's two classes of dentists in Russia you know there's the mechanical dentist and then there's the physician dentist what do you mean by the mechanical dentist?
well he's the guy that puts the teeth together and presses the dentures and does the lab work, yeah, and he, you know, does a limited amount on people. And the physician dentist is the one who works in the mouth and does the surgery and whatnot, and the lab guys don't do that. And so... Are the lab people allowed to take impressions and such as that? I think so. I'm not sure. I don't know, really. But Israel does not want two classes of dentists. They want one class of dentists. They want a guy who is capable of doing all the things that he ought to be able to do.
More scientific. That's right. So what they do, they take them back in school, and they retrain them, and they give them what they have to have to bring them up to snuff and then turn them loose well the dental school that they have there is very good and well established now it's a number one school in the world in fact is in in that part of the world i would say now there was one other school there was a medical school and dental school at the American University in Beirut but God only knows what that's about now I don't even know whether it's running now as far as your work You have been chairman of the Banking and Finance Committee for the Dallas County Dental Association.
Yeah. And that was a very important committee and you did some good work there. Thank you. You know, there's a lot of people who can't afford dentistry and can't afford much dentistry, and dentistry is not a luxury. It's a necessity. And so when people have a hard time buying a set of dentures or buying a bridge or whatever it is, the county dental society makes it easy for them to get it financed. So we made arrangements with certain banks in Dallas to finance this kind of dentistry for those kind of people, providing they're good people, naturally. And they give them up to two or three years to pay for this dentistry.
There's a little charge for it, but you've got to expect that. But that makes it available to these people. and yes for several years I was in charge of that. Were there any other committees that you had served on? Well there was a few few little oddies and enzies that I served on but I wasn't too active. I just liked it I'd rather mind my own business and go about my own business And I didn try for any of the offices in the dental society or anything like that and I was a peaceful citizen I would be want to be left alone I was happy and content doing what I was doing now the Alpha Omega fraternity for many years during the 50s and 60s they were lean years as to Jewish students in the dental school but the graduates and the men out in the profession were very active with the study clubs we go to me that's right I tried every month to have a meeting which we did in which you were very helpful in helping it to remain alive and through those lean years where we didn't have too many of the Jewish dentists here that's right that's right it was tough going of course now there's a we have Kanahara as the expression goes we have a fine group, young fellas and it's a pleasure to be there with them and they are an active group and there must be oh every bit of 30, 40 fellas yeah more than that could be 75 God bless them yeah the more the merrier yeah is it?
good it's grown every year we get new New fellas every year, yeah. Every time I go to the meeting, fact is I was there last Sunday for brunch at Prestonwood Club, and there was two or three new ones there that I'd not... The fact is there was one South African fellow that came, forget his name, and he's now on Baylor staff. What department is he in there? I really don't remember. Don't know. No, no. Nice young fella, and he's trying to get started here and of course being on the staff it doesn't do him any harm you know well then you had experience in banking and real estate business here what are some of the things that you done in the banking field Well luckily I was invited in to start two savings and loans in one national bank And at the present time, I'm not on any of the boards.
and so my time has come and gone, you know, and I don't want the responsibility anymore. But you did serve on the board of the Trinity Savings and Loan. For years, yeah. We started it, yeah, in Pleasant Grove, and we started that Trinity Savings and Loan, I believe in in the 50s and about 15 years ago we sold that to Bright and now it is part of Bright Bank what about the commercial national bank that's we I started that too, and that's still in existence, and I sold my stock in that after about five years, and I got out of that. But I had a lot of experience starting these savings and loans, and I was asked on these other two at the start of these banks because I had had experience with Trinity and they thought I would be helpful in trying to get them rolling.
Do you remember Rabbi Gohl, Rabbi Raphael Gohl? Raphael Gohl, yes sir, sure do. He married me. He married Miriam and I in 1939. Sure do. I remember him. I remember him. When I was going to Baylor, he used to lecture some of the medical students on psychiatry. And I've heard him. I used to stand outside the class and listen to what went on. Yes I remember him very very well Did you find him helpful to Yeah Oh well he was like a Shakespearean actor He was a great guy Do you remember Rabbi Weisfeld? I remember Dr. Weisfeld very, very well. He's a fine, fine gentleman, and I learned a lot from him.
He was a fine teacher and a very kind man. I liked him very much. And I was sorry to see him go. He had a class there one time. Yeah, we had a class that we used to meet every two weeks, and he taught us. Some of the people who were there were like Sherman Kaplan and his brother, Dr. Saul Katz, uh Jake Fellman uh Bernie Shannon and the Barron boys and that was the group and uh we discussed various subjects and it was a very nice group and I really enjoyed it much now you and Miriam was married in 1939 December the 10th December the 10th and the Turner family how long had they been in the Dallas area?
Well, Miriam was born in Dallas and I'm sure they were there before she was born Any of her other brothers or sisters that were born in Dallas? Yeah, Bill Well, you know, William, Bill. Is he the oldest? No, the oldest was Gertrude. She was born in Canada. And Harry was born in Canada. And then, but Bill and Miriam were born in Dallas. When did they come to Dallas? Did they come from Canada to Dallas? Yeah, they came from Canada. Well, originally, I think, Mr. and Mrs. Turner got married in New York, moved to Canada, then San Francisco and back to Dallas. I don't know. Well, did they, where did they come from in Europe?
Were they married in Europe? No, they were married in the United States. Or they might have been married in Canada, for all I know. Miriam knows, I don't. From Europe, they came from Austria, I believe they were. Austria? Austria, no, I think the mother was Hungarian. or was it Wastry and I forget now which they were all together then yeah Wastry and Hungary yeah it's the same area yeah now your family you have how many daughters I have three daughters they're all married now they're all married thank goodness who are they married to well one is I was married to an attorney, Howard Siegel, and he was from Chicago and me practicing in Houston with a large firm.
And he does pension plans and stuff like that for that whole big office. I think there's about 150 lawyers in that office, and he does that for them. And then my middle daughter Patricia is married to Paul Michelson who was a Michelson and everybody knows the Michelson because they an old old old family Well there several Michelson families Yeah that's right. And they're married and they're they're related to everybody. Right. And uh and they have three children and then my youngest is married to Robert Goidel who was also born and raised in Dallas and it was an old-time Dallas family and that makes you have how many grandchildren there?
three that's all three grand that's not many good well that's real good I think that covers quite a lot well I'm thankful for you to come over and put me on tape and I I appreciate it very, very much. Well, Alan, you've been very kind and helpful in sharing your memories with us. Thank you. This interview will add greatly to our records. Now on behalf of the National Council of Jewish Women and the Dallas Jewish Historical Society, I thank you. I thank you. This is Dr. William Pomerance finishing the interview with Dr. Albert Brown.