Bella Pesso
Bella Pesso was born in 1920 in Salonika, Greece, into a Sephardic Jewish family with origins in Monastir. She had two brothers and two sisters, and cherished the warm household she shared with her grandmother, uncles, and aunts. When she was about ten, her father moved the family to Ceres (Serres) in Macedonia after a disagreement with her mother's brothers. There she attended a Greek elementary school and a girls' gymnasium after her earlier French schooling in Salonika ended. Life in Ceres was hard, and she fell gravely ill with malaria, which finally lifted only after an uncle took her by boat to Egypt around age sixteen.
In Alexandria, Bella married Raphael and began raising her family, later moving to Cairo, where she lived for about 25 years. She had three daughters, two of whom died, including a little girl during World War II and another who died at 32 from a heart condition. During the war she learned that her parents, two brothers, and two sisters had been deported from Greece and killed at Auschwitz, while relatives in Bulgaria survived. After the Sinai war and rising hostility toward Jews under Nasser, the family left Egypt for Sao Paulo, Brazil, where they lived for years before her son-in-law's work carried her daughter's family to France.
After losing her younger daughter and her husband Raphael, Bella eventually came to the United States, living in Akron, Ohio, then Miami, and finally Dallas, where she settled about thirteen years before the interview. In Miami she found healing working with young children at Temple Menorah for eighteen years, adapting her Ladino to Cuban Spanish. A devoutly kosher family, the Pessos closed their store for Shabbat and every Jewish holiday and worshipped at Sephardic synagogues. Proud of her Ladino language and Sephardic culture, Bella often had to explain that Sephardic Jews were not Ashkenazi and did not speak Yiddish. She described herself as a woman of strong character and counted her family as the greatest treasure of her life.
Full Transcript
Today is August the 4th, Wednesday, 2011. My name is Clint Reisner. I am the interviewer and the videographer, and the interviewee's name is Bella Peso. Yes. Place of interview, Jewish Community Center of Dallas. Welcome, Bella. We're very happy to have you here. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'm going to ask you some questions about your oral history. And first, it is a tremendous honor for us to have this opportunity to have an oral history from a person like you, and you're free to use... My pleasure. Why not? Yes. You're free to use Ladino at any time with me, which reflects your culture and your native language.
And first we're going to start, and you can tell me any form or whatever information you have available about your family. You'll ask the questions. I'll ask you now. I'd like for you to tell me about your family, your parents and grandparents. Yes. Where and when were you born, and how did you happen to settle in Dallas? And what did your parents do for a living when you were a young girl? I'm here. My plans for a living. Anyway, I was born in Salonika, Greece. And I had two brothers and one sister. We stayed in Salonika until I was 10 years old. and then my father had a he was associated with my mother's brothers and they had a disagreement and my father decided for us to move to Ceres to where?
to Ceres, it's in Macedonia Ceres, Drava, Kabbalah, Komotini the place was Ceres it's a small city, it's a small mega city there weren't too many Jewish people there So I was going in Salonika. I went to the French school. But when I was in my service no more French school Or Greek school there no French school In Salonika they have everything So I had to go to the elementary school, Greek. And I stayed two years in the elementary school. And then I moved and I went to a gymnasium for girls. My father didn't want me to go mix up with boys and girls. And then I was there.
So we moved there. The life wasn't so easy because my father, like a man, he didn't know what is good for the woman and he rented up an apartment, terrible apartment. We had a beautiful house in Salonika with my grandmother. We used to live with my uncles, my aunts. It was a beautiful life. But over there it wasn't easy. It wasn't easy at all. So I stayed five years, six years over there. And then all of a sudden, I had malaria. Malaria. I was sick. A mosquito beat me, and I had malaria. And there's no way for me to get well of the malaria. I was very sick.
I used to do a lot of quinine shots, but nothing was good for me. I was very, very sick. And my father's brother was in Egypt. And he used to go to Europe to shop for the store. And he used to come to see us when he goes, when he comes back. So he came, and I was very sick. You know, malaria, you get very, very cold, and then the fever goes up, and it's a terrible thing. So he said to my mother, what's happened to Bella? Bella has malaria, she's very sick, she doesn't know what to do. And he said, you know what? When I come back, I wasn't in age to do the passport.
So prepare a passport for Bella. I'm going to take her to Egypt, where she's going to take the boat. and go to Egypt, he's going to get rid of the malaria. How old were you at this time? I was 16. Okay. I wasn't 16 yet. I wasn't 15 at the interview. So he went to Europe and he was supposed to come back and I couldn do my passport because over there in Greece there a lot of Pesach not Peso and they registered me by mistake, Pesach, and they didn't want to give us the gift, what do you call it, the born certificate, the certificate of your age.
Certificate, birth certificate. Birth certificate. He didn't want to give us. The guy said, I'm not going to give it to you. So my father went to my uncle and he said, they don't want to give the certificate, the birth certificate for Bella. What can we do? She doesn't have it. She cannot go to Egypt. And then my uncle went there and he had a fight. Instead of talking to them nice, he had a fight. So he said, if I wanted to give you the birth certificate now, I'm not going to give it to you. And then my mother, my father went to a guy that he was, the people, he was from Manassir.
You know Manassir, you heard about Manassir? He's in Yugoslavia. My father was born there, my mother, everybody. And then Salamor Westy, he was the one that he built the synagogue in Salonika for the Sephardic. for the people from Monastery. And they said, it happened this and this and this. I need the birth certificate for Bella and the people, they don't want to give me. You know me that I'm peso and my title is peso. So finally, he went there and he talked to them very nicely and he gave the birth certificate. So my uncle came to pick me up. We went to Athens. We went to Perea to take the boat.
We took the boat. We arrived in Egypt. No more malaria. I swear to God, no more malaria. Never, never again. Where in Egypt did you go? I was vomiting all the time in the boat. It was terrible. Two nights and one day. And you left and you went to Egypt. Where in Egypt? Cairo or Alexandria? No, no, in Alexandria. They were all in Alexandria. They had a store in Alexandria and a store in Cairo. So we went there, no more malaria. I couldn't believe it myself, because my uncle told me, you are going to get rid of the malaria And then my sister they were my family And she told me listen we brought you here because we wanted to marry you to my brother I said, I like him.
Because it was a man in Ceres that wanted to marry me from the time that I was 11 years old. So I said to my father, when Bella is going to grow up, I'm going to marry her. And my father said, she's a young girl, 10 years old. You cannot marry. You cannot know what has happened to the future. I cannot tell you that she can marry you. I don't know. And I didn't like him. He was a nice man, but I didn't like him. So when they told me Raphael wants to marry you, I said, yes. And I stayed and I married Raphael. And I said, my father came from my wedding.
But my mother didn't come. Why? Because he couldn't come, you know. Oh, I see. So I didn't see them. But my mother had a baby. After, when I brought, I had my Esther, and she gave birth to a girl. So another one that she died. So I had two brothers and two sisters. What did your father do for a living in Alexandria? He had a silica. He had a store, but he had everything in the store. They had pajamas, they had clothes, they had toys. They had everything. They had everything that you want. It was upstairs and downstairs. But he took a partner that he had three daughters from his wife.
And this partner, the girl, they used to come to the store and take whatever they want. And my father didn't open his mouth. So we didn't have money. We didn't have a good life. Because my father didn't know how to take care of us. He was a very good man. He was a very good man. But he didn't know. You understand? It was terrible. Well, anyway. So he came for the wedding. We were married. And I used to correspond with them. All of a sudden the war came in 19, after a few years, that was 39. And I was terrible, terrible, I was very upset.
because they were far away from me. I didn't know where they are, what happened to them. When the war was over, they told me that all of them, they were killed. Who? Who was killed? My father, mother, two brothers, two sisters. They sent them to Auschwitz. From Alexandria? No, from Alexandria. My father was in Greece. Oh, they're from Greece. My father-in-law. My father-in-law, we didn't have anything. And they took your mother too? Excuse me? They took your whole family? My whole family died. Okay. They took them to Auschwitz. From Greece? From Greece. They took them to Auschwitz. And they killed them all. They killed them all.
Even my little sister, that it was the same age like Esther, they killed them. It was terrible for me. This was in, they took them from Salonica. No, they were in service. Okay. In service. They were in Salonica. They were in service. But it's close to Salonica, about two hours by bus. How old were you at this time when they took your family? Well, when I went to Egypt, I had my birthday. I was 16 and I got married. I got married when I was 16. And when they took them away to Auschwitz? Well, it was in 1920. In 1942? 40. How old were you at that time?
Well, I was 20. You were 20? Yeah. How tragic. You were the only left in your family. The only one. Left in your family. The only one. but I had two uncles and two aunts that were in Bulgaria she married there my aunt my mother's sisters and I had two brothers they were alive because in Bulgaria the Bulgar they didn't kill the Jewish people they took good care of them and they told them you want to go to Israel Israel was born You want to go to Israel, leave your houses here, or you want to come back, sell it, and take your money. They permit them to do everything.
They were very good to the Jewish people. The Bulgarians. The Bulgarians. But in Greece it happens. Yes. So ask me what else it was. Okay. Tell me about your experiences in school. it looks like you attended many different schools and your interest in grade school and high school And what did you do after high school your education generally Well I finished high school and I went to Egypt And I went to Egypt but I got married I didn't do anything else. So I had my daughter Esther. I had Esther. I was taking care of my family. And then I had another girl that she died, and another girl.
I had three daughters. One little girl died during World War II. They didn't have the medication at this time. She died. My other girl had problems with her lungs. And the fever of the lungs attacked her heart. So she lived until 32 years old, and then she died. But for me, it was the worst thing that happened in my life. So now I have only answer. What can I tell you? What can I tell you? It happens in life, people, and they don't know why. That's it. So we lived in Alexandria when Esther was one year old, one and a half year old. My father-in-law died.
And then they separated. The people that were in Cairo, they came to Alexandria, and we had to go to Cairo. and I stayed over there 25 years in Cairo after the Sinai war with Kamal Abdel Nasser he was against the Jewish people so we had to leave because our mates they were able to have a gun and they can kill you and they can talk against the government they don't criticize them when they kill you because you talk again. I didn't talk again to government, but she said, how can I stay in a country like that? They didn't send us away because we had passport.
We were Yugoslavia. They didn't have the right. Said, you can stay here. But I didn't want to stay here. And also, Eki was married and I went to Brazil because Brazil was the only country to open the door to us to go to Brazil. And Jacques was with the Maccabi, and they wanted to take him to prison. But instead of going to prison they went to Brazil But my daughter was pregnant and I was in Cairo I wanted to leave but it not easy when you have a store I feel we get rid of everything. It was really, really terrible. And we left everything there, and we went to Brazil to join them after one year.
Where in Brazil did you? In Sao Paulo. Sao Paulo. Yeah. So how was Brazil? Brazil, I tell you, it was a very, very good country. They had many opportunities, but we didn't know the language. We know Spanish, but Portuguese is different. But it's easy to learn. It's not a language like English. It's difficult. But Brazilian is very easy. For me, it was easy. Portuguese is almost the same as Spanish. No, it's not the same, but it's a different thing, you know. But you can learn, you know. It's easy to learn, it's easy to write. It's not a difficult language to write. So we learned, you know.
And we stayed in Brazil. My daughter with her husband, my son-in-law found the job with Goodyear. and after nine years they were in Brazil they sent him to France so they had to leave again and I didn't want to stay away from my granddaughters but I had to let her go, what can I do and she went to France but we stayed a few more years in Brazil it was my other daughter was living with us my younger daughter. She was very beautiful, very good girl, good heart. But it happens what happens, and she died. When she died, my husband was very sick. He got more sick.
He got very, very sick. And my son-in-law said, you have to come to America, because He was in Akron, Ohio, from Paris. They sent him to Akron, Ohio. We are in America. He talked to everybody. And he succeeded because my husband died. No no My husband was very sick And he said you can come to America So we came it was very difficult What year was this? I thought it was a bad word. Okay, that's all right. I can't remember. It's okay. Anyway, because we lost our daughter and my husband was, me, I was getting crazy. So we can come to America. We went to Agro, Ohio.
we went there. He wants to do volunteer job. There's no volunteer job because he doesn't have a car. They want volunteer job. They want for free. And he wanted to have a car. Anyway, so he started doing things at home, painting, planting. The weather was nice. After that, the autumn came, and then the winter, and my husband was sitting like that, thinking about my daughter. I knew that. I said, you know, Rafael, we are going to go to Miami. Because here in Akron, Ohio, we are not going to stay. And my son-in-law said, why are we going to go to Miami alone? I said, listen, we speak Spanish, and over there everybody speaks Spanish.
Because English we didn't know very well. My husband knew better than me. Because my husband went to the English school. So we went to Miami. My daughter took me to Miami. We found an apartment. We found a place to stay. And I started doing old jobs, you know. I found a job in a place that they had only children's wear. And it was very nice. I loved it. And then I did babysitting because I speak Spanish. But after that, I left the store because the store was... The two girls were the owner of the store. And they had a lot of boyfriends. So they talk on the phone when they are not there.
I don't understand what they are saying. Because when you don't speak the language, the telephone is very difficult to speak. Anyway, so I didn't like it. And then I had babysitting. And then what I did, I did alterations. So I did a good job. And we stayed there a few years. We stayed a lot of years. In the meantime, my husband died. I was upset, very, very upset, because he went to work and he didn't come back. He found a beautiful job in Miami. He didn't come back. He had a heart attack. So my son-in-law said, You know, Mother, you can come to... They moved to Dallas.
They moved to Dallas. So he said, Why you don't come to Dallas? I said, Okay, I'm coming to Dallas. So they did the papers to come to Dallas. And I came. I came here 13 years ago. And I'm here now. As a child or with your parents, did you celebrate Jewish holidays at home? What, what, what? Did you celebrate Jewish holidays in the home? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. We were very kosher. And we celebrated all the Jewish holidays. Because my husband has a store. and the father, the grandfather said if you want to succeed in life you have to close all the stores during the Jewish holidays so they never, never they opened on Shabbat, never and they never opened on Jewish holidays they used to close the store as much days as they needed for the holidays but not for vacation and you attended synagogues for services oh yes Sephardic synagogue It's a Sephardic synagogue.
We used to go to the synagogue all the time. When you came to bed... On Yom Kippur, I didn't go because I have children very young. But my husband went to the synagogue. And during... When we were there in Brazil, he had a heart attack before. And I told him, you don't have to fast on Yom Kippur. And then he stayed in bed. and I said, get up and I'll give you food. He said, no, Bella, I'm not going to eat on Yom Kippur, never. And he didn't eat, and he fasted. He was very sick. Bella, your native language is Ladino, which is 15th century Spanish.
Yes, yes. You want to get us to say a go and Ladino? Ladino is a mixture of languages. The Turkish, Spanish, French. There are words in all languages. In each country it different from the Latinx Because Rachel Botnik is from Turkey She speaks different In Greece we speak different And we speak very well How are you? How are you? How are you? Good. Okay. So in your home you spoke Ladino. Ladino. And then outside of the home, Greek. No, we spoke Greek, French. French. Yeah. English. My first school was French. First I went to the North school. So you're fluent in French. Oh, sure. My first school was French.
But when I went to Asheris, it wasn't any French school. Okay, good. So I had to stop. Okay. Now, I'm Spanish-speaking from Latin America. Yes. But I notice I understand most of you are Ladino. No problem. Yes, sure, sure. Yes. So you were raised in a family. But let me tell you, when I came to Miami, I lost my husband. I was very upset. And then somebody told me, a lady that I knew over there, she said, at Temple Menorah, they need a lady for the school. You can go and work over there. Because I didn't want to work. I was very upset. And then when she told me, children, I said, I went.
So I went to school. I introduced myself. I said, I don't speak English. I'm going to learn. but for the moment I don't speak English. She said, okay, we can start with the children of three years old and I start helping the teacher. And I love those children. Those children, they saved my life. This job saved my life. So you had contact with the Cuban speaking people. Yeah, so the school, let me tell you, the school that I went, they were all Cubans. So you could speak Ladino. Wait a minute. And then I speak Ladino, they don't understand. So I had to adapt myself to learn Spanish, like they speak.
Because we said, el bizcochico, they said la gadgetita. Muchas palabras que son diferentes. Yo aprendí a hablar como ellos porque ellos no me entendían. Yo los entendía. Okay, muy bien. Entendidos. Okay. Y me vendí a la escuela 18 años. Y es ahí que tuve Medicare. I guess you seen a lot of changes in Dallas since you moved here But what do they do You have seen a lot of changes in Dallas since you moved here Oh yes oh yes It a different life And I'm sure that when you were first exposed to the Ashkenazi culture, it was like alien to you, foreign to you. First of all, not in Dallas only.
In Miami, when I first was, the people, they used to tell me, Are you a Jewish lady? I said, yeah. You speak Yiddish? No. So you are not Jewish. I told them, what do you mean I don't speak Yiddish? What is Yiddish? Yiddish is Jewish? Yiddish is German. Yiddish is not Jewish, I said. This is not my Jewish language. You said that that is Yiddish. But no, no, no. There's no Yiddish. Yiddish, Yiddish, Yiddish. They broke my head. They broke my head with this Yiddish. They didn't even know about the Sephardic culture. No, no, no. They didn't know. And the only one they called us, Arabs.
Arabs? Yeah, because I was in Egypt. I was born in Greece. My daughter was in Egypt. She was born in Egypt. She's Arab. I said, there is no Arab Jew. There is no Arab Jew, I said. We were in Egypt, but we're not Arabs. There's nothing to do with Arabs. Oh, that's what. and the how is it? the rich the rich you don't know the rich they're the same they're saying I don't speak because I don't speak Yiddish exactly bello yeah I'm going to ask you some concluding questions yes we're about to finish who has been your greatest role model in life the person that you've admired most who has been the person that you have respected and admired most in your life, as we say in English, your role model.
Oh, role model. What? That's good. I try to be... No, who is the person you have respected most in your life? Oh, I want to be a role model. I spent with many people in my life. Many role models. Yes. Like I told you in the beginning, I had my grandmother, my uncles, I love my uncles very much my mother brothers And it was for me it was the best thing in my life Okay your family My family yes Okay one other question So you most proud of your immediate family right Yes. Okay. Yes. Is there anything else you would like to add to this interview?
Like what? Anything, concluding statement. I want to tell you that I was very strong character. I tried to fight because when my daughter left me in Brazil, after 10 years, she was 9 years in Brazil, my granddaughters were born, both of them in Brazil. After that, she had to go to Paris. And for me, it was a terrible thing that happened. Because I didn't have any family. She was my only family over there. and she went to France because she had to follow her husband. And for me it was very difficult. But I only found friends. And my husband was a very good man and he did a lot of charity and he tried to help many people during World War II that they didn't have the opportunity and they make a lot of money thanks to my husband.
But when my daughter got married she went to Brazil She was alone. She was pregnant. And she found a lady. She went to give birth. And in the hospital, she found a lady that she was from Lebanon. Not Muslim, Christian. And this lady, this lady she said to her husband, what is this girl screaming because she's giving birth? Where is her mother? Her mother is in Brazil. She's alone? I'm going to come back. Yes. Want to do something? Yes. And so you've mentioned this before about your family. And I want to tell you that I want to congratulate you for such a great interview. Oh, thank you.
Felicidades. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be with you. You can ask me any questions. I'm here. If you want somebody else to know, I'm here. Thank you, Bella. My pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you.