Bert Romberg
Bert Romberg was born in 1930 in a small farming town in Germany, in the Frankfurt district near where the Rhine and Main rivers meet. His maternal grandfather had built a prosperous general store, grain, and cattle business there, which Bert's mother inherited. His father, an unusual Jewish officer in the Kaiser's army during World War One, was severely wounded and died when Bert was four. As one of only two Jewish families in town, the Rombergs faced intense harassment after 1933, and the family business collapsed when local farmers were pressured not to honor their debts to Jews. His mother moved the family to a larger community in central Germany in hopes of safety, but conditions worsened after Kristallnacht.
In 1939, Bert and his older sister escaped on the Kindertransport, with their mother traveling on the same boat under a British domestic-service visa arranged by a cousin. Fostered separately by English families, Bert lived first in Coventry, where he survived the major Blitz, and later in Hertford, where the Pettit family cared for him with great kindness. He earned a scholarship to a demanding grammar school and completed his bar mitzvah through a Jewish orphanage program. In April 1945 the reunited family sailed to New York with two cardboard suitcases and thirteen dollars. His mother worked as a sewing machine operator while Bert finished high school and worked multiple jobs.
Drafted during the Korean War, Bert served in the 45th Infantry Division and rose to first sergeant, becoming a U.S. citizen along the way. Afterward he studied engineering at City College and joined Commercial Metals Company in 1945 (New York office), later transferring to Philadelphia and then to Dallas in 1960. Working under Jake Feldman and Walter Florin, he became the company's nonferrous marketing manager and vice president, opening global markets across Asia and Europe over a career of nearly forty-five years. In Dallas he and his wife Terry raised three daughters, joined Shearith Israel, and became active in the congregation and Jewish Federation. In later years they supported Holocaust education at UTD and a Jewish summer day camp in Wyoming.
Full Transcript
old rber today he lives at 3030 mckin at lure at the beautiful lure my name is Nancy angerman I will be interviewing him and Ruth Andress is the videographer hello hello welcome to our place a thanks thank you it's good to be here uh I I'm going to start with where you were born and just tell me about your Early Childhood before you came to the United States I I was born in a little town called aim a eim Germany it's it's in the in the armpit of where the Rin river meets the the uh mine River it's in the Frankfurt District uh um in
1930 I was the second child I have an older sister she's a year older than I uh she also lives here uh lives here in Dallas a time was a small farming Community uh where my our grandfather settled our maternal grandfather um settled there became what we think was a very Pro fairly prosperous General Store Farm and Ranch type operation and and finer or cattle dealer for the farming Community around there um he died in 29 uh he died in 29 he left a fairly prosperous business that my mother inherited my mother was the the third of four children the other three all married and
left that little town she stayed behind and uh partly to take care of her parents um and also her husband they married in 36 and he moved to this little town he was a World War One veteran from the his army um he was an unusual veteran because he was Jewish and he actually had a commission he was an officer in the Kaiser's Army which for a Jew was a rarity I was going to ask there weren't many Jews in World War I there there were many Jews who fought for Germany yeah um but very few he may have been one of the only ones
or that that became an officer and we heard that this was was such a Rarity from family that we met later on um unfortunately he was severely War wounded and he died when he was 44 when I was four he died in 34 so he and my mom had a very short life together anyway that was that was I was born in 309 came to power in 33 and immediately our life there in this little town became really intolerable we were one of two Jewish families in that town the other family were called strauss's our family was Rothchild Romberg our name was Romberg but our
maternal lineage was Rothchild in in very short order a local Nazi Club was founded there one very rabid uh anti-semitic leader took full charge of the of the anti-semitic line of the Nazi party began to harass my mom who had plenty on her hands with this big business what was the business we had a general store and and a grain trading business and and actually I believe my my grandfather actually financed a lot of the farmers and when they he he helped them bring their either their grain and their cattle to Market and then when they marketed he got paid back the big problem ensued
from that was that when the Nazis came in they either directed or persuaded the local farmers not to honor their bills their debts to Jews and in in in very short time this business became unmanageable for her mother um and in 1936 or early 37 she decided that this little place was no place to stay it was too just too difficult for her the business was no longer feasible she had to take care of her mother my grandmother and this very very large house in any event her her next oldest sibling my aunt her sister had moved to a a larger Community called asre in
central Germany and she decided to move there in the hope that there was a larger Jewish community and and that anti-Semitism wouldn't be as severe um it probably wasn't in 36 but it quickly thereafter became that way so you hung around for 3 years or and then we went then in 30 it was I think it was in 36 we moved to this other town where I my sister and I enrolled in the in school by then already Jews were no longer welcome in in the general School population so we enrolled in in the Jewish school or the the Jews had to form a school
so there was a Jewish Day School next to the synagogue and we enrolled there um and that went on yeah and and my sister I think was a year older than I but I was in effect it was probably kindergarten but I'm no longer sure of that anyway came Christ which was 37 the synagogue was gutted the school was closed the teacher was told under pain of threat of death he would not teach Jewish kids anymore and the Jewish Community quickly disintegrated people tried to get out many did lot a lot of course didn't um some of my friends that I remember didn't um my
sister remembers a good bit more but we stayed there until 39 in 39 things became really really desperate and as As Good Fortune would have it my mother's cousin a cousin of my mother's had left for England several years and I'm not sure how long they were there but they were residents in in England in London and had a fairly prosperous business um started a a cigarette lighter business called C which became a an internationally known brand in in England and uh vouched or arranged for a Visa for my mom the Visa and we I can give you kind of a copy of it which
you can take and but I will need them back I'll give you some documents thank you um and she heard about Kinder transport and I don't know how she did it but we got on Kinder transport and she she got on with this visa to England on the same boat so she in effect was a was a chaperon and different from the other chaperon because she then had a British visa she was not forced to go back to Germany but she was part of the condition of her visa to go to England was that she signed something that said she would take no other job
than domestic help because that was the the English were the first of the trade unionists and the British didn't want foreigners taking their jobs but they didn't mind foreigners cleaning their toy Nots so Mom became a housemid we and of course she couldn't afford to keep us so we through through the British equival of what was at that time the equivalent of highest here was an organization in England called bloomsberry house and bloomsberry house arranged to have us fostered out on English families where possible on Jewish families we're not possible on any family that would take us so we got shipped to a town that
you will probably remember CU you're old enough called centry which was the first of the British cities that was seriously blitzed we got oh time sequence we left Germany on a boat on a train to Holland to meet a boat at the hook of Holland which was the ferry terminal to London you were incredibly lucky because in 39 they marched in Poland it was already impossible for you to get out so you got out we left in May 39 and the war the war broke out in August September so so we we were lucky by two months in any event we we made our way
to London um at Liverpool Street Station where we where we came from the from the fairy goat to the London that's the London train station um we were greeted by bloomsberry house and by my mother's cousin who in the car taking us to his house temporarily told my mom that he had gone bankrupt and couldn't afford her as a as a house name in fact had to sell his house but he Goldie he had arranged or get a job with some other family turn out with okay mhm so we we we uh started our our life in England Bloom very House mom was working at
for a family in London we got shipped to Coventry uh I was supposed to be taken in by a Jewish Family but they had already gotten two other Refugee kids and said they couldn't take me there was a family called Cohen um so I ended up with a a British family called shepher a rather rather you know working class British family my sister was with a was fostered by a family called Simon a Jewish Family Jewish Merchant family um and that went okay she she was not well taken care of she they she was at the time I was nine turning 10 she had just
turned 11 and uh in effect they used her as a housemid the the family I was with who had two older children took me in as just another child and it was a a fairly poor he was a postman she was a part-time bar maid and and I lived with them for 3 years um that was in you know in Middle 39 November 14 the war broke out November 14th 1940 was the first major Blitz uh centry was was the Detroit of England it was was the the motor capital of of England and the and the Germans attacked it viciously and I can remember we
were uh out of you know the school systems were closed the sewage and the water systems were disabled the factories were burned were burning um fortunately uh the house that I was in the shepherd house was next door to the fire station and the fireman let us sleep in their shelter so that so I was okay unbeknownst to me uh the the Jewish Community which was in cry which is a fairly well-to-do Merchant Community as they always are they they were the General Stores they were the clo etc etc they vanished they had houses or or summer places in the countryside that's where they went
and my sister went with them and I didn't know that neither did my mother who was in London and and couldn't reach us for weeks didn't know what what our children's condition was so anyway that that's we survived that and and I survived it very well uh because his family treated me so well and I made non-jewish friends up the block and in school and and integrated into British Society very very quickly um I remember being extremely homesick the first I don't know how long maybe it was a week maybe it was 10 days maybe it was longer than that but I do remember crying
not knowing why I was crying but it was homesickness and then I remember how hard they tried the shepherd family tried to uh teach me English um because I didn't have a word of English they didn't have a word of German and I remember the first thing I learned in English was because I could by then read the time and they had a clock over the man on the mantle place over their fireplace and the first words I Learned was it's 10 10 minutes fast they always kept the clock 10 minutes ahead and I remember their daughter continually telling me it's 10 minutes fast that's
the first English that I learned so but but then you know then then I got along very well what did happen uh for the because between middle 39 and 40 we had that 12 13 months interval where they took me to the synagogue so I attended CER three times a week and they made sure that I went the Jewish Family could care less whether my sister went wow but the but the non-jewish family they wanted me to keep my religion so that you know that so I learned a little bit were you in contact with your mother um later I was it was we were
able to send a postcard we didn't have phone mhm it was too early there were phones but the family I was with didn't have a phone they were too poor um but they did have a phone on the corner and if you had a few Callins you could call so I think we did actually manage to get a phone call through U so she knew at least I was alive I'm not sure when she found out that my sister was still alive because my sister was in the countryside uh so that was you know how it went and then with this blitz haer closed so
that's when I lost that was the end of my Jewish Education at at 10 I was little older little little or 11 by then no n I was 10 then so there's the blitz for for a 10 11 year old no big deal we didn't realize how serious it was nobody that I knew none of my friends were were U injured or killed um the the wartime austerity had already taken place the British had a severe draft for all all men um up to I think into their 40s they got drafted into the army uh the rest of them into their 50s and 60s they
got got drafted into Home Defense um you know as arid wardens as shelter managers and all kinds of things and and very quickly rationing severe rationing but this family shared their their what little they had with with me so I I thrived in that environment because it was a nurturing environment and I did well in school and within weeks I was fluent in English which is as a youngster that's pretty easy and for that reason I don't have a lot as an aside I haven't a lot of sympathy for English as a second language in the Dallas or in any American school system because kids
adapt so quickly if you keep them on their on their immigrant language then they it takes them so much much longer to get fully integrated in and many of them never do because they speak the native tongue at home and they're always be on the eight ball that's one of the problems in Canada you know the the quibec yeah they never did integrate anyway so that so in in and and I stayed there till I was 12 or not quite 12 and Mama began to worry about how am I going to learn from my Mitzvah if there's noer so she went back to Bloomsbury house
who arranged for me to live with the Jewish orphanage there was a very fine Jewish orphanage which was in in a called in a place called Norwood which is a southern near in suburb of London actually within London it's it's it's a burrow of London which had been evacuated from London to a town called Hartford 20 30 miles north of London U and there and and they were using an an abandoned an old schoolhouse for the schooling but their children the orphans were all farmed out on family non-jewish families in Hartford was a fairly small town was a fairly small town at the time was
a county seat of Hartford Shear but a small town and I went there and was fostered by a a group of families the first one took me in because they had a polio stricken child who was a year younger than I for whom they thought they needed a companion and also because I had a ration card it gave them an additional ration to share but the uh their child their son for whatever reason didn't like me and it may be I don't know what it was anymore it maybe that he was worried that I would get some affection taken away from him by the parents
so I lasted there oh just a couple months and they began to sort of Wiggle how could they get rid of me and one of their neighbors also in a rather poor neighborhood said I'll take him and who took me it was a woman called Hill Mrs Hill I don't know anymore whether I even ever knew her first name but she was Home Alone her husband was in the Army in North Africa I don't I don't know if she ever if he ever came back um and I lived with her for a couple of months until one night oh yeah one night I I uh
was able to go because it was very close to London it was a short train ride went to London to see my mom for just one day or whatever she couldn't keep me overnight she put me back on the TR to arford I got there at night and the door was locked and I'm sitting out on the doorstep and she had a gentleman call call her turns out she was a prostitute which you know at my age I didn't even know what a pro but that's what she was so her her neighbors saw me sitting on the doorstep and said come and live with me
and there was a family called Pettit and they were the salt of the earth I was with them for the next 3 years they had a little son I became his babysitter they took care of me I took care of them I learned how to darn socks they he was a he was he was asmatic so he was not in the Army he was a green gross's helper she was a she worked part-time as a green girl's Helper and part-time taking care of an invalid brother and her mother who lived down the street and she had this little boy so I you know fell into
this family and they were just wonderful wonderful and we we stayed in touch with her until 5 years ago when she died um and and with her and she she fostered me in a adopted me and at the same time fostered another kid so she had her own little child me and another Refugee type kid and after we left she adopted three more boys this was this woman was just the salt of the earth so but that was a happy experience for me and and it and then at the orphanage I also did well and got very very lucky scholastically I learned my bar mitvah
and since it was a a London County School in England they at the time they had a system of scholarships to what they called grammar schools which were like poor men's Eaton or Harrow very upgraded schools because the school system at the time was only mandatory till 14 in the regular British kid unless he had a lot of money or unless he was extremely lucky at 14 out and in the workforce which in those days was very necessary because the men were at War who's going to run the rest of economy so at at 12 and2 I took a London County Council scholarship exam and
was the second kid in the oranage that ever got one so I was admitted to battery grammar school which was a grammar school from London a higher education school that was evacuated to Harford to the same same community and shared the Hartford grammar school's grounds so I enrolled there and that's where I got a sterling part in the pun education because this was a very rigorous Ed at 13 I was taking in in the same one week or in the same semester or the same year French Latin German three mths I I took by the time I was 13 I had taken or I was
taking algebra geometry and trip English History English literature um chemistry and physics okay okay not four not 5 days a week like you do here 2 hours hours or 3 hours a week the school day was from 8:30 to 5:30 half day was for sports and the rest was class after class after class anyway I I thrived any anti-Semitism um a touch I can remember one incident but not really very much uh-uh no the British the British were good to us they saved Our Lives they but but I got so when I so that lasted until 45 and in in because by then one of
my mother's siblings her oldest sister had come to the states in 37 they lived in New York they didn't they weren't well to do but they were okay and established visas for us and we got Visa permission to come to US we uh I remember we had to go to London to get examined at somewhere on groer Square where the the an army uh physician a captain U examined us because they didn't they the Americans didn't want somebody with tuberculosis or or disease ridden to come in so that we had to go for exams and we passed and in in April 45 the week before
Roosevelt died we arrived in New York via VIA Hala fire we we were on a on a British liner which was served as a Canadian troop ship the bloomsberry house arranged the passage bloomsberry house paid for the passage cuz we didn't have any money um and we arrived we they they reserved two cabins I remember one for men one for women a group of maybe 30 or 40 refugees left Greeno which was the the Scottish port for Glasgow on this troop ship which was bringing Canadian troops back from the European theater many of them wounded uh um and we we had cabins on that ship
we your mother your sister we came together we came together which was the first time we were reunited as a family um so and that was April 45 and by the time we got to New York we we we went from Halifax by train to Montreal in Montreal we were met by hadasa or what whatever some Jewish women's group met the train they knew we were coming they had bananas and we hadn't seen bananas since before the war so my sister and I gorged on bananas in in Montreal and then they put us on the on a change trains from Montreal to New York we
got to New York I think it was like two days before Roosevelt died and our aunt picked us up at at Penn Station and uh we we lived with her for a few months in in Jamaica Jamaica New York and and then my mom got a job as a sewing machine operator in in the Garment Center my sister went to night school and got a day job as a assistant to a dentist and I went to High School I I went got into a middle of sophomore year high school in New York and because I had this fantastic background in in in England in some
subjects I was just miles ahead and in some subjects like Spanish or American history I was way back there but I but I did very well in high school so that was 45 sister managed to complete high school and then went to full-time dental work um and I finished high school in 48 Mama worked Mama became a four lady in in the raincoat Factory where she worked we got in our own own little apartment we lived quite nicely my sister then in 49 met her then what was to be her husband he had come back from he had been in the service he was also
a German Jewish Refugee his family lived in uptown New York in Washington Heights you may know about that and they courted and they got married at the end of 49 she moved out they moved to a little apartment my mother and I had her own apartment and then mama got sick so oh yeah 48 48 I graduated from high school started Queen College through high school and through college all that time I had part-time jobs I was always working but my mama got sick I had to leave I was leave College after a year and in switched to night school cuz I had to find
a job and then let's see what happened and that went okay Mama got bet better I went back to college took a night job and then the Korean war broke out by then I had had about a semester a year and a half because my college had been interrupted and and I was in college and I got College deferred like they do here if you stay full-time in college well that that worked all right until mama got sick again so I had to go leave Day School go to night school draft board heard about it you're no longer a full-time student you're coming into the
army CU then at that time they were drafting 50,000 kids a year a a a a month I remember um and they desperately needed bodies so I said I'm I have to stay home I have to take care of my mom well that worked for a couple of months and then they said uh-uh the Army will give you dependent pay you're in so in in 51 I got drafted and in retrospect that's except for meeting my wife later on that's probably the best thing that happened to me because when I got out of the army had the GI bill got an education huh so that
that that's how it went and and it it went fine we never had a pit to his in but but we never felt poor we just never did we never missed a meal we worked I had I can remember one summer I had three jobs I was I was a bus boy I was a bus boy let's see I had oh I was I was a bus boy in the Empire State Building where they had on the 21st floor they had a a a lunching club very exclusive Club so I worked there from 11: to 2: as a bus boy and I was one of
the few english- speaking bus boys most of them were Puerto Rican kids so they they I didn't have to work in the main dining room with the heavy trays they put me in the bar where I just cleaned up glasses and Cut Off the Wall Street ticker and such so that was a a day job five days a week because it was a business lunching Club and in the afternoon I would walk over to the Garment Center I became a a shipping Clerk's helper I was a Wheeler boy in the Garment Center 5 days a week and on weekends I was a bus boy Saturdays
and Sundays in the Picadilly Hotel so I had three jobs and I kept two of them when I went to school later on cuz I went to day school and I kept the afternoon evening job as a ship as a you know packing packages and taking him to the post office and the weekend I would be a bus boy did you go straight from New York to Dallas what got you to Dallas well okay here's what got me to Dallas and I'm backtracking a little bit and this is a really good story when I was in the Army I got shipped to Korea there's another
crazy sort of things that happened to people I was fluent I was fluent in German okay I got drafted and did very well in in basic training and they give you IQ tests and I guess they don't get a lot of very high IQs or whatever it was but at toward the end of basic training the the oh by the way my I we lived in New York and I got shipped to Breen Rich Kentucky for basic training which for a kid who had never been west of the Hudson River it was like hille country you know Western Kentucky anyway so so I I was
here with all these kids from the farms in Kentucky and in Indiana and Illinois and you name it and here's this Jewish kid from New York who had a good score on on on IQ tests and we had a a I guess I'm not quite sure how that worked anymore but we had a World War II reservist Captain who they called back in during Korea and he became a a training officer and and the and the uh regiment that I was training in or the Battalion they evident had some kind of quota for Officers Training School so he wanted me to enroll in Officers Training
school because I had the IQ that matched what they needed and I said I can't cuz I'm not a US citizen yet and you can't become an officer unless you're a citizen he said well how long you been here I said wait well right then we got noticed that our citizenship papers were available at the courthouse house in Brooklyn cuz it had been 5 years in some OD since we'd applied so I said I'd have to go to New York and get my citizenship papers he said I'll give you a a 5-day pass you can go get your C come back and enroll so I
took this 5-day pass made my way up to New York discuss this with Mama and Mama didn't think it was a good idea to be become an officer because it would mean being in the Army longer she had this bitter memory of her officer husband who died early because of a wound she didn't say that but I'm sure that influenced it and she said she didn't think I should do that so I got my citizenship papers and I probably can show it to you and I went back to Breen Ridge to my training unit and I didn't enroll for officers candidate school so what happened
although I speak German I was on the next boat to Korea where some of the hillbillies in my outfit got shipped to Fort or for language school to to learn German because they had huge Garrison still in Europe so I I got to Korea so this was and I got to Korea into in I ended up in a in the 45th Infantry Division single company and I had another Sterling career I was a I got there as a private I got there as a private in I think oh yeah I shipped out on my birthday I got there in August I shipped out in July
got got to the 45th Infantry Division in Korea as a replacement in a for people who were coming home by then in 52 and between August of 52 and March or April of 53 I got only 10 more I got no 20 I got 20 I got five strikes I was the first sergeant in The Signal Company in the Infantry so I had a great army career and when I came home which was in in November 53 I thought you know I have some college education probably a year and a half two years from Queens College nondescript liberal arts whatever it was but I had
this great Army Career the world is waiting for me they weren't waiting for me I couldn't get a job I couldn't you know it was it was after Korea things have slowed down somebody I could have been gotten an eron boy job or a male boy male clerk somewhere in in W advertising agency or wherever and if somebody likes you you'll get a head kit you know that kind of thing and then I so I don't know let's see how this went that that was at the end of 53 so I I got a job as a floor Walker in a department store of course
for Christmas season and began to think that I should go back to school take my GI Bill and I was going around New York friends of ours who had sent me care packages in New York and I remember visiting a Selma in Washington nights who' sent me be beautiful salamis to Korea to thank her and her brother-in-law so this was I was at tant Selma's in Washington nights and her brother-in-law was visiting her who was her brother-in-law was a guy called Harry shonfeld who is an ex German scrap dealer that Jake had H Jake Filman had hired was working in Jake's yard in Fort Worth
and Jake had shipped some stuff to Germany that was a problem of one kind or another and the Germans had asked for somebody to come over and look at it so Jake sent Harry shonfeld from Fort Worth to Germany but Harry didn't fly so he took the train to New York and he was staying with his his sister-in-law in Washington knes waiting for the boat from New York to Hamburg and here I show up and he said kid what are you going to do I said I'm looking for work he said write to Jake Filman here's address there's the answer so it was a don't
call the answer from Jake was don't call us we'll call you so with that and and a whole bunch of other sorry kids I took an entrance exam to engineering school at city college and I passed I don't know how I passed because I was competing with you know I'd been out of the I'd been out of school already for some time out of the army and I'm competing with the cream of New York's high schools Brooklyn Tech Stenson you know all these brilliant kids they must have taken notice that I was a veteran so they admitted me to engineering school so I went started
at City College engineering school during the day floor Walker at gerz in the department store at night that went on for two years and in the interim in the interim Jake's brother-in-law who had an office in New York was his sister was Bessie Nathan Jessie's husband dropped dead on the street in Italy on a business trip and Jake became the executive of his estate Richard Nathan's estate and Richard had a beautiful office in downtown New York Jake had to dismantle that office so he kept one corner of it and one of Richard Nathan's key employees and sent an employee from Dallas to New York so
two of them to open a trading office for commercial medals in New York and they needed a gopher they needed somebody to run errands and they called me that was two years later so I said what do you mean you know if I wait for you I would have starved so they they called me they said well why don't you come down and talk to us and it turned out it was another one of of the periods where mama got sick and I couldn't coincidentally I just would have had to switch again to night school and get a day job and here was a day
job the shirt yeah so went to went to work for them for a dollar and A4 of an hour for a trial period as a goer as a gopher teletype running errands delivering checks uh open opening the mail and all that there a trainy gopher and that was in that was yeah it was I finished the semester so between Christmas and New Year's I went to work for Comm 1945 and I worked for commercial medals till the year 2000 and nobody ever told me that I was no longer on a trial period you know wait in 45 you mean 5 55 excuse me yeah so
I was commerci I was with commercial for just about 45 years so that was so did you bring your mom with you to Dallas no no we I I that was 55 and that was Winter 55 winter 56 6 no it was it was still winter was early 56 I met Terry where we were blind dated we were blind dated by my mom my sister and Terry's Aunt a woman who had married Terry's Uncle who was also a German Refugee who came from ashva this town that we moved to and my mom was very friendly with her parents and with her and they found each
other again in New York anyway Joan used to be armg God con she changed it to Joan to Joan Carrie when we met her but she later on or little while after that married Terry's uncle and uh while I was in Korea they had their fifth wedding anniversary this Joan and Terry's uncle and Terry's parents lent them their house to have a fifth anniversary party and my sister while this was while I was in Korea my sister and my mom got invited and they met Terry and they all I guess agreed that wouldn't this be nice young lady when Bert gets home so I got
home in 53 and in early 56 they finally managed to to get sneak her phone number to me or whatever it was and I can remember in January or February of of 56 I called on Terry at their house in huet New York which is a next neighboring suburb and there she was in all her glory I I can still remember the dress that she was she wearing a silver lame dress she was gorgeous and I had I had I was driving a car that IID bought for $200 from our AC cross the street neighbor in New York this a car that had been on
the you know there no garages and all it been sitting outside all its life and they were ready to get rid of it and I paid $200 for it was was my mustering out PID and I can remember I picked up Terry it was a rainy Misty foggy night and I had by then I was working for commercial medals company so I had a little money in my pocket first time I ever made any money with some change and we went out to a restaurant called the barefoot boy of Britany Hills some was some guy MOS and I remember it was raining and we were
driving on the Cross Island Parkway and this was the time of the high heels spike heels Terry got in the car and she put her heel right through floorboard it it it was rusted out and the rain was splashing up on her stockings that was that was our introduction oh God that was in early 56 did you know it was it as soon as you met I don't know we we dated pretty frequently then and and we got engaged to at the end of 56 and we got married 57 so that's how I met Terry she they were bound and determined that you know they
plotted this thing three or four years before we ever met met but they they were persistent I didn't I didn't really I should have known that I didn't didn't have a choice anyway we we got married 57 uh by then I had been been working for commercial for a year already a little more year and a half and was going to night school cuz I hadn't finished what when when they hired me I had been in engineering school for two years I'd had an I would have had another year to go but I had to switch to night school which ended up taking me almost
two years um and during that time I met Terry I was still going to night school and then then Jak or commercial bought another little scrap operation in Philadelphia where they needed an assistant foreman and we got married in 57 in summer of 58 I finished I finally finished my last engineering course in second summer session night school soon at this was at in what this was at city college City College um as soon as I finished that Bingo they transferred me to Philadelphia we moved to Philadelphia we were there for two years and then so it's 59 by now yeah well it was middle
5 August 58 M and then in 60 they had an opening here and I'll tell you about that later that's when I moved Dallas 58 no 60 60 yes what and you're um 28 no I'm 30 you're 30 okay you're you're 30 uh your wife Terry rber is TW her name formerly what was her name theres Clinger Terry Clinger Clinger Clinger Clinger okay um teres CL Clinger and uh you're 30 she's 20 she's sorry she was she was 5 years younger she was 35 25 she's 25 okay and where do you settle in Dallas well we we came down in in in a March 30th
1960 Terry by then was we had been married since 57 Terry was 7 months pregnant with our first child we we we uh landed it was a foggy Misty Rainy Night in Dallas uh commercial medals had ordered us to come down here we flew into Love Field got a taxi to The Adolphus Hotel they got us a room in the old section of the Adolphus which was pretty run down with a bare light bulb and so on and Terry we got into in there late at night it was 10 10:30 and she broke down and cried well I she should have been used to that
since her foot went through your car well no the anyway we uh and Commercial Metals had its office on a street right down right down where where City Hall is now mhm U so that's why they put us into the office it was close by so they stayed there and then we got an apartment on dely Lane oh sure right across away from the temple mhm and the reason we got there because my new boss Walter Florin who was manager of about a half of commercial he was one of their major sales he was he was a major non feris salesperson and I came down
to train under him and his wife insisted that I we get a place near where they lived so that Walter could bring me in in the morning and Terry could keep the little car we were shipping down from Philadelphia so we stayed on Del NY Lane for a year and a half in one of those apartments on the corner there they're still there by the way those were duplexes too they were yeah they were right and and uh and then we bought a little house on in Northwest Dallas on web Chapel Road in that neighborhood we lived there well we that was our first child
was born in in uh May 1960 a second child was born in April 1962 by then we were already living in our own little house and our third child was born in April 1964 three three girls okay their names Paula Leah and Hannah so that's and and then that was 64 in 670 what was your title at commercial medals event I didn't have a title when they brought me down here we came down I came down to understudy the the manager of what they call the metal Department okay which was the company was divided into two divisions one was steel and one was metal all
the other metals and Walter fline was in charge of the metal Department I came down to understudy him because he was a pretty independent Soul he was also a German Refugee who'd been working for Jake since 1936 and and was sharing managerial responsibilities over some of the Yards with Bernie shanan do you remember Bernie shanan sure uh and and Jake reorganized the company brought Walter into the main office left Bernie to manage the yard and uh but Walter was a pretty independent soul and had gotten fairly wealthy cuz Jake paid very well and had had many many knockdown drag out disagreements and fights with Jake
and I think Jake was concerned that waler might just walk out one of these days so he better get somebody down here to train under him so they called me down from Philadelphia so I trained under Walter that was beginning 60 and in 61 60 end of 61 Walter who was not really an old man but he was getting on in years had a serious heart attack and and heart attacks in in those days I guess were not treated quite the way they anyway he was under an oxygen tent for I don't know how long and finally came back to work but then he decided
to retire and I sort of fell into that job in 62 end of 62 with really not a lot of experience so Jake took took over he began to train me around the clock um and he was he merciless did did you know Jake or did you you knew him not personally well Felman had unbelievable energy an unbelievable in intellect and and unbelievable tenacity and he could he he had the the ability to take if any anything he worked on all the way to to its logical or illogical conclusion many times illogical but he wouldn't let loose until and and that drove us wild because
we could we we just had to work around and we did work around the clock and he would in he would insist his training on of me was to literally dot my eye my teas cross my eyes watched everything I did for about two years around the clock and and then he finally let me loose he finally gave me a title of vice president and I became the the nonfer marketing manager for for the company and and did very well I mean I I think I did very well by the company but they did very well by me and we grew and we grew and
we grew when I went to work for the company when I went when they hired me in New York we probably had 250 employees in scrapyards in for worth in Dallas and in Houston I believe that's all we had and an office here when I left the company in in in 2000 we had 12,000 employees all in the Texas Court world no we by then we by then we had by then we had scrapyards from from California Florida uh the furthest North we ever got was Springfield Ohio we never got into Chicago or New York or but we did get to Philadelphia except that was
where I worked for a while but then we closed that down I was responsible for closing it down cuz it was just not feasible anymore but uh Saul kaplan's your era wasn't it yeah Saul Kaplan was our area Saul Saul had was in the paper on rag business very good friend of ours um and so was saline do you remember saline um and the oons do you remember the oon family yep those were all the people around here well anyway I I didn't my particular job didn't keep me very busy in the local market in the Texas Market my nearest client was in St Louis
so I I grew my my responsibility for the company was to to take our materials globally so I eventually began working in Japan I I opened markets for the company in Korea in Taiwan Hong Kong India um did a huge amount of business in Germany uh which I didn't which had started before but I carried it on but I never went back to Germany I always found somebody to send or they would come to see us and then eventually we opened our own office in Amsterdam and brussles and Switzerland uh over the years but that's a a much broader story I can if you want
that story I can give it to you but I think it would take much longer than that so anyway that that that was my career there was was fascinating we we were Terry and I and and many times Terry would come along uh our kids grew up thinking living breathing commercial Metalist comp um I'm interested in curious to know about your Jewish affiliations okay we we uh be because our our in New York Terry came came from a very reformed background so reformed that I don't think her daddy was in the synagogue from Terry's boss Mitzvah till his grandchild's boss Mitzvah um but she had
a b BOS mitz yeah of sorts confirmation I think it was it wasn't really a b SM and and I don't think he had anything to do with the rabbi except for the guy that married Terry and I who was not his Rabbi they didn't belong to Ru um he was the rabbi of of Terry's mom's sister she and her husband had a home in in Scarsdale New York and we were married in their backyard with by their Rabbi um our Jewish affiliation my mom my sister and I and New York we we attended at first Jamaica jewy Center which was conservative and later on
a place called Hollis Hill Jewish Center where we had our little apartment or in the neighborhood where we had our little apartment my friends in New York were all were my close friends were Jewish but I had a lot of non-jewish friends particularly non-jewish girlfriends don't tell Terry um but uh in at Jamaica high school but our College friends were mostly Jewish many of whom I'm still in touch with many of whom Terry became very friendly with uh grew up with a Jewish group of Jewish guys many of them about a year year and a half younger than I and then a couple my age
we would you know Sunday mornings hang around the B bball court and then when we got hungry we'd go to slotkin for Nicholls was a Ry bre and a toothpick u in Dallas um in Dallas we we in Philadelphia we became Jewish again for the two years we lived in Philadelphia we we got an apartment where our next door neighbor was a very nice Jewish couple with three boys and they introduced us and they took us to Temple SI where the famous Rabbi Greenberg took us under his wing at Sydney Greenberg and we became Jewish again that was conservative and we are still in touch
with some of those people and here we joined because of the Felman we joined we joined Sher Sher and became very active in church Terry became very active in Sisterhood in the oh in the late 60s I was president of Brotherhood um so we we uh we were active in sheriffs for a long long time and not we haven't been recently are you still there yeah my sister is very active she and her husband have been very good congregants there and your sister's name is first F you rst Margaret first Margaret first her husband died Harry Harry her husband died I think five years ago
now um she's she's exactly a year older than am they we came here in 60 they followed us here in ' 63 and brought my mother with them uh and that was then she lived until 74 and I and I have to we we reminisce about that those 10 years that she lived here were probably the best years of her [Music] life she saw all her grandchildren she had some Independence we took care of her she for first time she ever had her own checking account we forced her to have a credit card she had her own little apartment she was in the senior citizens
group at JCC at JCC uhuh she thrived there she was Mother of the grandmother or mother of the year here there one time and then you know as as she got older her handwriting got worse and her English was never that good although it wasn't bad but they made her recording secretary the senior citizen so so that was that was a good time for her and it was a gratifying time for us CU she had some some you know some peace and some Independence BR you're um kind of famous in my part of the world and one of the reasons is uh your work at
with UTD on the Holocaust uh studies tell us about that because it's so important I that that's only a sort of a recent thing we we uh I'm very friendly with s Bowski who I think is one of the great Community people in Dallas do you know oh you should yeah and we need to interview he's he is he is just an unbelievable C incredible yeah guy has done a tremendous amount of good in lots of places U and and uh so it was through him that I got introduced to to UTD and the and what what what uh appealed to me at that at
UTD was that it is an effort at a very high level to teach the Holocaust story U it is a it is a and it's very well supported by the Provost and the and the UTD and what it does it teaches tolerance it teach it teaches it from a different angle than the Holocaust Museum it it it asks the question how come how can what was at the time the most civilized Western Country uh develop the most horrific U event in in in Western culture which is the Holocaust and so it teaches the about that Western culture the German culture the Austrian culture the anti-semitic
core of those cultures U and then says look what can happen which I think the the downtown Holocaust Museum also does but not at that level and at that level they teach the next generation of professors of of college instructors of high school instructors and and I think that is a much more I think not much more but I think that is a powerful powerful teaching tool that needs support so that's where Terry and I have decided because you can't when when you are philanthropically minded and you're able to do things and you have you have the time you have the intellect and and you're
lucky enough to have some discretionary spending which not everybody is but we've been able to then you realize that you can't do everything because there's just a limit there so so you begin to zero in on what things what seems to you to be the most important and we in in the last several years have decided that's important not that the others aren't yeah but you can only focus in on we deserve in on that in the past we spent I spent a lot of my time on Federation I think for many years I was one of the Premier or the more effective or more
important fundraisers for Federation I cheered the campaign for two years I cheered the pay Setters for two years um there then I finally said that's enough no more chairmanships no more committee but I'll be an Indian so as an Indian I took 30 40 cards a year and and solicited them so that that I haven't done that for the last couple of years um but that that I think those those two items have been our major contributions to this to the Dallas Community the Jewish community in particular the Dallas community in general and then we have a little Pet Project up in Wyoming where we
found that in Jacksonville Wyoming there are Jews many of them don't want to be Jews many of them don't say h here I am um but there are Jews and they have children and when we were up there when we first sort of were regular visitors up there and then when we decided to build a house there we we saw that there were families that have Jewish kids and they didn't know what to do with them and one of the reason they didn't know is because there's so many intermarriage so we planted the seed that maybe we Kickstart a little bit of Jewish Education and
we we said why if you would want to we don't tell you want to tell what to do but if you want to uh and you you think you can develop a little summer day camp program we'll sponsor it so that started 14 years ago is there a center for no no we they rent facilities or and and we've have an ongoing summer day camp for 25 to 35 kids at from five or six to barit age and we've basically underwritten that you know for the last 13 14 years U it I tell you it's very difficult in that community in the community like that
to give the kids something to hold on to Jewish Education but you're doing it we're doing it and we've had bar mitzvas and we've had B mitzvas and we've had weddings and so they they make in this little Day Camp they make Kal on Friday evenings and they sing smears and songs and we get little Jew dog postcards from them wellber you've really led a fascinating life from soup to got do somethings and you're really one of the more interesting people when we when we got to New York in 45 we had two cardboard suitcases of O clothes and $13 that's what we started with
so Mama went to work as a sewing machine operator sister went to work for the dentist and I I I remember I went to my first job was as a stock boy in mil shoe store and I can remember well you you guys have been to New York so you know what time square is like oh yes well on the corner of 45th and Broadway was a nedix Frankfurter show store you remember nedix oh yeah I do and they I do and they had and this is when we had just come from Europe where there been severe rationing and I was a bus boy in
the viadil hotel and on the way out on the way home 10:00 in the evening on the way to the subway I would pass the meetings and the hot dogs would be on the grill and and a hot dog was a dime and a papaya juice was a nickel and I treated myself to a papaya juice on a hot dog it was glorious oh and then later on when I this is let me finish with this one story when I was working as the shipping Clerk's assistant packing packages and taking them to the post office and such on when we had a holiday I would
work a whole day instead of in the afternoons only and then my aunt would pack me or my mom would pack me a sandwich in cellophane paper and I would have to bring the cellophane paper home at night and but every once in a while I would get terribly hungry you know a 15-year-old kid 14y old kid and downstairs in the freight elevator there was a a little like a delicatess stand and this guy made corn beef sandwiches and a corn beef sandwich cost 40 cents and I was making 35 cents an hour and but I had to have one so I would once in
a while you for a whole hours of work one sandwich for a 15-year-old did one sandwich is not enough you so but but I had to make it do so I would eat half now and go back to work then take a break 3 hours later eat the other half at the sandwich so you'd bring home to Mother 15 cents so anyway okay thank you ladies thank thank you so much it's been a wonderful