Bob Beer
Bob Beer was born in New York City on April 8, 1918, into a family with deep American roots. On his mother's side, the first to arrive was Calman Heller, who came through New Haven, Connecticut around 1849 with a large family, including Bob's great-grandfather David Heller. The family had origins in Bavaria and helped pioneer Reform Judaism in America, connected to Cincinnati and Isaac Mayer Wise. Relatives settled in Waco, Texas, becoming part of the Sanger family. Bob's grandfather worked in the mercantile field in New York and pioneered ready-made large-size women's dresses. His father was David Beer, who came from Germany in 1882 and sold jewelry across the west. Bob grew up in a Reform home, attended Temple Israel, was bar mitzvahed, and studied at the selective Townsend Harris school and the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania.
After graduating, Bob worked in retail in Cleveland and Boston, marrying Gerry on June 6, 1941. During World War II he served in the United States Naval Seabees, spending 19 months in New Guinea. Returning home to a tight job market, he answered an ad that led to a position with Lawrence Kahn of E.M. Kahn and Company in Dallas, starting July 1, 1946. He and Gerry discovered they had Sanger relatives in Texas they had never met. Bob spent about six and a half years at E.M. Kahn, serving as treasurer and helping open branch stores. In 1952 he left retail to enter the real estate business, partnering with Bud Miller. The Beers raised three sons, Alfred, David, and Johnny, and lived in several Dallas homes over the decades.
In Dallas Bob deepened his Jewish practice and became widely involved in the community. He and Gerry belonged to Temple Emanuel for more than fifty years, and he held associate memberships elsewhere. He served as president of the Jewish Community Center, working from about 1952 to 1954 with Ann Kelman to find and secure the site for the center's new north Dallas campus. He was active in Federation after befriending Jack and Lois Kravitz, worked on budget committees, and joined the first mission to Israel in 1962. He was involved with the American Jewish Committee, American Jewish Congress, the Anti-Defamation League, and the National Conference of Christians and Jews. A passionate advocate for interfaith and civil rights work, he supported open housing, helped lead the Freedom Train visit to Dallas, joined the march after Martin Luther King's death, and read to schoolchildren for more than two decades. He was a co-founder of the Dallas Jewish Historical Society.
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Full Transcript
Okay, this is Ginger Jacobs. I'm talking with Robert Deer. It's January 26, 1998. Now, Robert, what do you like to be called? How do you like to be called? Bob would be just fine, Ginger. Okay, what is your home address? Where are we now? We live at 6573 Ridgeview Circle, Dallas 75240, Texas. Now, are you the first generation of your family to come to Dallas? No, I'm way along the line. Who was the first of your family? First, on my mother's side, was one Calman Heller, who came probably in the 1849 immigration through New Haven, Connecticut, to the United States, with his great big group of children, including my great-grandfather David Heller, who traveled a good deal over the country, but in 1862 was in Cincinnati, or at least my grandmother was, because that's where my grandfather Isidore Heller was born.
And at that time, then he had my mother, Fannie Heller, who became Beer, and one sister, Mildred Heller Miller. All right. Now, where were you born? I was born in New York City on April 8, 1918. Now were you-how did you get to go? After I returned from World War II, where I was in the United States Naval Seabees in New Guinea and was stationed just before I got out at Brooklyn Navy Yard I needed a job Ten million of us were looking at the time and I was getting a little discouraged My aunt, Mrs. Miller, treated me to an ad, either the Times or the Wall Street Journal, which was picked up by Lawrence Kahn of E.M.
Kahn & Company in Dallas. And through a screener, one of his resources, Palm Beach Clothes, I was interviewed, fortunately passed, and in the two weeks that Mr. Kahn was on a buying trip in New York, I was still in my naval uniform, He interviewed me, and eventually it worked out after a lookover in Dallas of the Tann and Sanger family as to whether a Yankee could make it down here. We fortunately survived. I think it was because of Jerry. and on July 1st of 1946, I started what turned out to be about a six-and-a-half-year stay with E.M. Kahn. Unfortunately, Mr. Kahn passed away just a little short of a year after I had arrived.
Now, then you were the first of your family to actually come to Dallas? Well, quite fascinatingly, one of the great-grandpa Heller's sisters, daughter of Calvin Keller, two of them settled in Waco, Texas. That was what became Hannah Heller Sanger of the Sanger family and a Betty Heller Edelson, whose son one time headed Montgomery Ward in this region. So we had some Heller things. And in my interview with Mr. Kahn at the very end, He said, Bob, what do you know about Texas? And I said, Mr. Kahn, I know all about Texas, because in the Seabees we had some Texans and they never stopped telling you about Texas But seriously other than having passed through the Panhandle on the way to California at age 12 I didn't know Texas, except we're supposed to have some relatives who had a store in Texas.
Who would that be? I think their name was Sanger. Which Sanger's? Which Sanger's? The Waco or the Dallas? I said, I wouldn't know, Mr. King. I'll have to call my mother. She's a generation closer. So my mother said, the Waco Sanger. And I got very excited, and he says, my sister is married to a Waco Sanger. Her name is Fae Leeson. She's married to Alex Sanger from Waco. I guess that didn't hurt, so anyway we came. I found a family that I had never actually met until my arrival in Texas. There he goes. Now, um, trace the, uh, the arrival of your family. They came to Ohio, but then you were born in New York.
What happened? My grandfather was in the mercantile field and eventually came to Stern Brothers in New York for a job there in 42nd Street. I think he was with S. Cann in Washington at one time, but he settled in New York eventually going into the blouse business, and then finally as a pioneer in large women's dresses, which didn't exist at that time. The first ready-to-made dresses were, of course, the most popular size, which were Missy, but other sizes came along, junior half sizes. But big stout women up to size 60 did not have ready clothes available They had to go to dressmakers And he started in that field He called his line Svelte Line Clothes And he did that in New York.
And my mother was born there, as I said before, my aunt, and they grew up. Where did the family originate from? Oh, they were all from Bavaria. Actually, I think from the same town probably that the Sangas were from, because the original Hella business, Hella Brothers, in Cincinnati was sort of a wholesale jobbing house, and they used to provide the pack and what went in it for many of the people who later became store owners and so on, but their beginning was out of there, and the sangers were among them. Tell us about your Jewish... My grandfather, my great-grandfather, were pioneers really in Reformed Judaism because that time in Cincinnati was where Isaac Mayer Wise, who became the leading American exponent of Reformed Judaism, settled, established Hebrew Union College and so forth.
And at the time I first knew of going to Sunday school and so on, We belonged to Temple Israel of New York, where my grandparents actually met or were married anyway, were married there. My parents met at confirmation class in the Temple Israel Sunday School. I attended there. It was bar mitzvah, which were quite unusual in Reformed synagogues at that time. And Jerry and I were married through Rabbi William Franklin Rosenblum of Temple Israel. And then when we came here, Temple Emanuel was the place we would come to for Reform Judas and be the only one synagogue for that persuasion, and we've now over to 51 years belong to Emmanuel.
You mentioned you and Jerry were married in the New York temple. What year was that? Well, actually, the ceremony wasn't at the temple itself. The rabbi came. It was the Hotel Plaza where my parents had been married in 1916. So there was that kind of nice historical perspective. Was that in Manhattan? Amos Plaza at 59th Street and Fifth Avenue. Did you have Hebrew training in your childhood? No. Reform Judaism in those days had minimal Hebrew. You learn some alphabet, and a few of the prayers that were said in Hebrew, and they were few enough. But we learned our Shema. Did you, or did anyone wear a yarmulke?
No, the yarmulkes did not go and reform Judaism. That was one of the changes they had made. What about any Felicim around? You didn't see Felicim. In fact, in those days, even though today you do see them, you tell me some usually on rabbis, in that day they wore a black robe, and sometimes that four or five corner hat was the common garb, the reformed rabbinate. In New York as well as here? I learned a very valuable lesson during my bar mitzvah. We had a cantor wolf who had been born in Europe, and as he was giving me my bar mitzvah lesson, and I would get up on the pulpit, but he would say to me, Bobby, always talk to the man in the last row, because if the man in the last row can hear you, everybody should hear you And then later having a chance to do some public speaking was very helpful In a practical way on top of enhancing some Judaic knowledge What was your Jewish education like other than your Although reform Jewish education in those days left a lot to be desired and and some kids just almost ignored it because I was interested in history as well.
And our rabbi, Maurice Harris, at that time, was quite well known in Reform Judaism. He had written the primary text used in Reform synagogues called The People of the Book, and another one at confirmation level called A Thousand Years of Jewish History. And that probably was the beginning of my subsequent interest in particularly American Jewish history today, Texas and Dallas Jewish history. How long did you go to, was it a Sunday school? Yes, Sunday morning was the day. And what were subjects like? It was history and what limited little Hebrew went with it, and prayer Hebrew primarily. Was there confirmation? Yes. Confirmation was the main form of having arrived in Jewish youth rather than Bar Mitzvah.
but my grandfather, I wanted bar mitzvah, and that's what I did. And so bar mitzvah was also? Today I am a fountain pen. And bar mitzvah was also part of the program within that temple? It existed if requested. Okay. And how long was the educational program confirmation? You graduated confirmation at about age 15. And when did you start the religious school thing? It was almost simultaneous with first grade in public school Six years Six A quick side story cousin Ann Sanger Hortense and Morton daughter in their neighborhood there were very few Jewish children at the time. Preston Hollow across Northwest Highway was way out. And came Sunday school time, her friends from the non-Jewish community were starting at school in Emanuel's, way south Dallas, hadn't started for her age.
And she said to her mother, I want to go to the Methalik school with my friends. That's another story. Okay. So where did you go to grammar school? I went to the public schools of New York, starting. They had one set of grades from, there was no kindergarten at that time, went to a private kindergarten, then four years in the first public school, Then you went to the next level of fifth through eighth. And then I had the very good fortune to be accepted at a school called Townsend Harris, the preparatory school to the College of the City of New York, which you had to enter by examination.
and there were only 200 or so. The total school was like 700 compared to the huge public high school of DeWitt Clinton that had 12,000 students. And this amazing school produced four Nobel Prize winners and Sam Ballin, who used to live in Dallas, attended the school a little behind me and I didn't know him then. But in a book he recently wrote where he mentions the Nobel Prize winners, he's been very active in the Robert Oppenheim program at Los Alamos and so on And he said this famous physicist Hans Bethe asked him if he was one of the Nobel Prizes and he said not His answer was not yet And then he told about a fifth fellow who didn't make it into the school, but later became a Nobel Prize winner.
So it was an unusual and fascinating school. It took only three years to get to years to get credit for four years' work, not like a junior high school that just was four years of work and three. And during the Depression, parents wanted their kids to get through and get out and start to earn a living, and it was a very exciting experience. Were there many Jewish kids in your class? At Townsend Harris, that was a fascinating demographic situation. It was almost 95 percent Jewish kids got into this school. You know, particularly the first-generation Jewish families were so anxious for their kids to do better than they'd been able to do with push and so on.
So it ended up with that high percent. And then they went on. You could get into City College, which was most desirable because here was one of the finest schools in the country that didn't cost any money. So you were able to get in to City College with a 65 average from Townsend Harris, whereas it took 75 on the regents, New York regents, to get into the general public. So it was also a better shot. And fortunately, things began to get a little better for my father, and we managed to go six months and a year to the University of Pennsylvania. He wanted me to go to the Wharton School, because having been a wholesale salesman, he thought the great thing was to be a retail buyer on the other side of the line, and that's where I headed.
Now, did this go from grammar school through high school? No, it just was three terms, freshman, sophomore, junior, or senior. Now, what about the regular, or the grammar school? Yes, the New York Public School. The class of 18 was exceptionally large, because if you had a child, I guess, in World War I, it was an exemption from having to go in the Army. And so there was a big bulge, and I remember 50 children being in our regular public school class. On the other hand, I think we got a good education, because either the teachers were better or the kids, again, being pushed by demographic factors, worked hard.
What about the University of Pennsylvania? In those days, if you were going into retailing, the Wharton School was considered the leading business, undergraduate business school in the country. And fortunately we were able to get in there and attended four years at Penn. I went to my father in the senior year and said, because Penn is what it is, Harvard graduate school of business, you only have to go one year instead of two years as other college graduates would have to. So get out and go to work. And then what happened when you... A pen. There was a store in Cleveland, and I had an opportunity to go with the Bailey Company of Cleveland and went there and worked for about two and a half years.
During this time Jerry and I married in 1941 on June the 6th She came to Cleveland She didn like it very much It was very cold both in the weather and she felt in the social climate Although we joined what was then the Columbian Club, the Oakwood Country Club, But I think we only got out there two or three times before I got this exceptionally good job in Boston with Federated Department Stores, the R.H. White Company. And we went there in January of 1942. The war started on December 7, 1941. And we were in Boston for about 15 months, and by then the war was fully on.
I was in 4F, and though I kept applying, I wanted to go and be with the people. In Washington, I felt that with the government, at least doing a war production board was what my former head professor in marketing headed a department. He wanted me to come down, and then a freeze occurred, and we went with the local department store, HEC company, and Jerry and I were working. We didn't pay very much in those days, and then I kept applying, volunteering, and the Navy had turned me down because of my eyes, and I got accepted finally. And they put me in the Naval Seabees, and someone said, oh, you'll have a desk there in Washington.
And seven months later, we got on the ship for New Guinea. We didn't quite know where we were going, but when it went to Cuba, set off Guantanamo bay through the canal, and 63 days later we arrived in New Guinea, where I was 19 months over there. We came back in September of 1945 My father was dying of cancer so I probably got back a month or two earlier And then while in New York where I was then stationed equipment Okay, continue. So, I think I mentioned before how the job came about in Dallas while I was still in the Navy. I got discharged April of 1945.
We came for our look-over in the first week in June of 1946. It was 46 that I actually got out. 45 I came back to New York, and here we are, 51 years later. Now tell us about how you celebrate Jewish holidays. Coming from a Reform home at that time on the Upper West Side of New York, there was little or no home celebration. At Sunday school, you got a menorah and you lit candles on Hanukkah. We did celebrate Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, and that was about it. And only after coming to Dallas and getting deeper into my Judaism did we start to light candles on Friday night.
I recall talking to Louis Lefkowitz, the son of Rabbi Lefkowitz, who I really left out a point of an important contact in Judaism. At the age of nine or so, kids started to go to summer camp in the upper middle class. Hello there It just showed They still ringing And my parents didn really know of a camp themselves but they had friends and my aunt who married into an Orthodox family connected with the Jewish Center in New York Rabbi Leo Young congregation were all going to a camp called Tawanda in Honesdale, Pennsylvania, which was a camp operated in Orthodox with Kashrath and everything else. So this was my first real introduction into a more traditional form of Judaism.
And it was a very valuable thing for me. So I had been jumping back to Lefkowitz when I came here. It was just really bare Judaism. It wasn't even classic perform, I would say. So, back to Louis Slavkowitz. I came to him once and I said, you know, I'm not talking about lots of new Hebrew. I'm not that great in Hebrew myself, but in my experience through the years, there are two rather short, beautiful prayers that I've always enjoyed, like Lahoto Di at the beginning of the Friday night service, the concept of the bride coming into the services. and I said another one just toward the end where say on that day the Lord shall be one of his name I said I think those are wonderful maybe we could think about one or the other oh no he says we don't anymore Hebrew he says my father doesn't sing good and so forth so at that time we didn't by Levi Olden.
We picked up a little bit, and I think he said that if there was such a Objection by anybody of a little more tradition, maybe they should not come or go elsewhere. But we've come a long way. Yes. About what year did you have that conversation with? Oh, we're talking in the 47th to 48th period. What about some of the other holidays, like Passover and Chippoge Grove? Any observance as you were growing up and after coming here? We did have Passover. Of course, what I very closely remember was my papa, who was not a great religion in this period, but he would preside over the Passover service, and he would begin with the prayer, Baruch HaTorah DeNoi, when do we eat?
Oh, yes. Did you also have a prayer? Oh, I've got to give you a little here on matzah. Okay. There were three kinds of matzes then, reformed, conservative, and orthodox. The Goodman was the reformed matze, particularly the round one. Then the conservative was, I think, Monashevich, and the orthodox was considered the Horowitz Margaret. Now it happened that my aunt, who had married into the Orthodox family, on the second night they were invited, and one of the-Ben Parrow, who lives in Dallas now, his mother would hold and their grandmother... Go ahead. So Grandma Margaretin was invited, and of course there was no question of what matzah had to be the obvious matzah in the Margaretins but the tastes of the others around ran more to So what they would do would be put half a dozen or so of the margaretan on the top you know, it was in a nice big basket with cloth around it.
Underneath, see, were the Monteshevitz and the Goodman at the bottom. So everyone knowledgeable except Grandma Longoretton with nowhere to reach for the matzo that they wanted. And that was always a fun story. What about Sukkot? Was there any other recognition? In Manhattan apartment houses, the Sukkot was not a prominent thing. and the synagogues had no extra ground to put one on, so we knew of it, but it was limited compared to what we can do to him. When you came to Dallas, coming to such a Reformed temple, how did they compare? What were some of the differences? What would some of it do? Well, on the whole, both being reform, Southern reform tended to be even more reform.
And so there was that difference I described in my conversations with Lewis. And actually, in the first year I was here, I volunteered to teach in the Sunday school. and there was an opening in confirmation class to teach comparative religions, which was something I'd always been interested in. So I taught there at that time. How about the Zionist issue, or the issue of Zionism? Well, reform, pretty historically, up to about that point, if not anti-Zionist, as were the Council for Judaism group, was non I would describe our history as being non We didn know Israel other than what we read in Jewish history and background We had no strong feelings Of course once the Holocaust had occurred and so on that was the one place that wanted the survival of the people.
It was terrible that the limited numbers that were being taken in all over the world and other places. So that's how I came. I won't say to this day, I think I take a membership in the COA, but I'm not a Fabrenthe Zionist. I've been to Israel four times. I think it's extremely important. And though none of us are happy with the lack of peace at this time, we're not going to give up Israel. Have you always held your membership in Temple Emanuel and given that the only membership? No, I have an associate membership in Shalom. At the time, the Sheriff Israel Synagogue was being built.
I had some participation there. For all the synagogues that our community can handle, a quick aside, Shari Tefillah, When I attended there, this was the most orthodox I had seen in Dallas, and the Rosenberg family were very active in promoting that, and attended a bat mitzvah. And I saw Mr. Rosenberg, and I told him, I thought you really had done a wonderful thing by providing this additional tradition here. And he told me that the reason, or primary reason, that he did it was some of these big companies like Collins Radio Texas Instruments and so on who wanted to hire very bright young men who happened to be of extremely traditional background and one of the reasons they were hesitant about coming was there wasn a facility that met their needs and that's one of the things that led him to do that.
How is it that you were? When I wear Taoism, I lean to the larger, more covering type. How is it that you have held more than one membership in the synagogue? Well, I truly love my Judaism. To me, it has always been sort of a leading factor in my morals, my philosophy toward care of others. And so I try to do whatever I can, participatory where possible, and with what means I have to help. On the other hand, I've also felt very strongly, and from the beginning of my coming to Dallas, intergroup relations have been most important to me. In my first six months here, so the first Brotherhood Week of the National Conference of Christians and Jews came up, and Mr.
Bromberg, the late Louis Bromberg, was very interested in that organization, and they were having trouble getting Jewish speakers to go out around these little towns in Texas and talk. And though I had never spoken publicly really in my life, that's how I came to get into activity and really to learn Texas physically and geographically and so on. Then also, intergroup racial relations became very active too in open housing. things of that kind. But I feel that my Judaism is what motivated me, that this needed to be done, and what I was able to do, I wanted to do. How have you changed during the year of the time of the year?
First of all, as Mel Brooks would say, I've gotten older. I'm eating some of the fruit. It's supposed to be good. And the will to live. Dr. William T. Live, a good physician. And these things. Relating to observance and practice of Judaism, Oh, I would say to the degree that, as I did before, that customs that were not observed in my house, and also to encourage my children to know that we had a belief and that we considered it important. What were some of the other customs and ceremonies, or were there any of the ceremonies Well, things like the arts I had to parents and grandparents, my parents did, and I do, and I hope my children want to do.
And of course you only live on through memory, and that is one way to have an occasion and to remember. What about going to services? You couldn't go more often now than you were there? Oh, I would say so. Though my grandfather, who, again, I said, he was an excellent Reform Jew. He would go every Saturday morning with my grandmother, and she was very hard of hearing, and they had seats right in the first row by the pulpit. And my great who was still alive and lived in 93 I think he would come on public transportation and tend services and then we all go to my grandfars for said Shabbos lunch And that was part of my introduction So there wasn't an observance at Shabbos?
Oh, yeah. To that degree. What was the service like when you were growing up? Well, when you came to Dallas, let's talk about Dallas, the service when you came to Dallas. Well, as in all Reform Judaism, I think there's been more and more tradition. By the time we reached Rabbi Zimmerman, we reached a family of 13 generations of rabbis, and obviously they weren't Reform at the beginning. And while he's head of Hebrew Union College today, he carries with him his sense of greater tradition than many others would have. So when others from the old-time Dallas families were a little upset about all this Jewishness coming about, fortunately I welcomed it and thought it just enriched rather than hurt.
What about organizations? When you first came to Dallas, what were some of the first organizations? I wonder which I didn't, but I remember when I think it was Bill Naxon came to see me about b'n'a breath, and at that point, both financially and time-wise, I was totally consumed. I said, it sounds good, and I will take a membership on one condition. I'd never have to go or be active there. Of course, I belonged to the committee, and later the Congress, and the National Conference. Yeah, I was very early on at the American Jewish Committee and tried to help them in their 50th anniversary of the chapter with what materials that I have saved.
And I had minutes from way back I remember a certain person being named president because they were a little concerned about the existing vice president because he had an accent. And after they named the new man from Old Family, they found out he wasn't a member yet, So they had to make them a member. So lots of fascinating things. I could write it a book. Well, in Congress you mentioned? In Congress, I became a member of the national group. I remember Shannon and Pearl were members. There were just really a few of us, And they kept urging us to have a chapter. And at that time, between Anti-Defamation League, American Jewish Committee, Jewish War Veterans, and my interest in the subject, oh, I felt the last thing we needed was another organization.
And so we didn't encourage it. But then they approached Rabbi Wernick at that time. And I guess the appeal of being a president, a first president of a local chapter appealed to him. And with a letter to a good-sized congregation, you could get 50, 60 members from the letter. And that's how the local chapter began. After his departure, I think I became the next president, and I think I was president twice. Do you happen to remember the years? I'm going to vaguely remember 20 years or so, though. What about now? Let's talk about... Time is flying faster than it used to. Let's talk about Federation and...
Right from the beginning, and I think you'll find this interesting, when Mr. Cain was trying to encourage us, because Jerry wasn't that hot about going south or even southwest. We tended to be we used to turn progressive and Texas wasn known for that He encouraged us a little by saying there a wonderful head of our federation people we think you like named Jack and Lois Kravitz. So these were one of the earliest folks we met and became dear friends with lowest to this day, and that's how I got involved with Federation. So by the time the first campaign was on, I was becoming a campaigner.
Also the Jewish Center, which was still on Pocahontas Street, and that's where I met you hear, Kresnik? Chesnik. Chesnik, playing basketball, a little tomboy there. Finally met a fellow who had just come over by the name of Michael. And he met a fellow who had just come over by the name of Mike Jacobs, and you all know about that, and happily for this community, and particularly for the Holocaust Center, numerous other things, and the Jewish Historical Society for which we are doing this recording. I use the term connections, and I have a little archive of my own, which I call connections, and we keep alphabetically organizations and people and things that have happened in various lives, and I get a tremendous pleasure and fun out of this.
Let's talk about places you've lived in Dallas, your dresses, and placed your migrations to Dallas. Well, the first problem was to find any place. The Cairns, Lawrence had lived for many years at the Melrose, so they got us a week at the Melrose. Then they found a home where the owner went to fish July and August, and we were able to get a 60-day rental on April. from Hearst Street. Then from there, all summer we were looking, and Jerry was getting very discouraged, and finally it looked like we had to buy a house. And retailing, until a few years have gone by and your job seemed secure, you didn't buy houses.
But we ended up by a house at 6122 Meadow Road, which we lived in for 11 years, and which all our children were born in. And then we went on to Northwood Road, and we lived in Northwood and Thackeray for 16 years. And then we came to this house, and we've been here 24 years now. So I moved too much. Talk about... Well, gradually the process was you were on a committee, and then if you worked hard enough, you became a member of a board, And then if you still were interested in progressing, you became an officer. And this is what occurred in committee and Congress and the community center, where we ended up president of Congress, president of the community center.
I think I was treasurer in committee. and Jerry had offices and federations. She went on from board member to the head of the women's after our first trip to Israel. What year? That was in 62. The first mission to Israel happened that year. Jack Kravitz led it, and that was a marvelous experience. When they came back to where we got to know the Waldman so well, Herman and Bernice, and Herman became head of the men division the following drive and Jerry of the Women Division And these are just some of the things we done Were you on the board during the time of the movement and the decision?
There is something I am particularly proud of. I just ended the real estate business in 1952, and in the years, I think, 53 and 54, I was president of the center, and the community was on active move from South Dallas to the North, and the institutions were getting ready to move, Emmanuel, Sheriff Israel, and so on. And so the center, particularly with children and long drives, became important to do. And we started to look for a site for the center, and they weren't too anxious to have us. There was a zoning problem and also social pressure. There were groups who were saying they're going to have all these bums traveling through, and they're going to stay at this place and whatnot.
But after two years of looking, and Ann Kelman, who at that time was active in the Jewish community, a woman lawyer from Cleveland, and who got on some of the zoning boards and so forth. Together we pursued and finally found the present location of the center and had to fight a community feeling by some leaders that this was way out in the country out there at North So the Central Expressway had been set up but hadn't quite reached there. It was due in a year or so, and we said people would be able to get there easily and so forth. Of course, now we have Plano locations, and there's a whole story that could take up a tape in itself on how that decision was arrived at.
Yeah it quite a story Yeah yes What about other civic and cultural groups Well, very early on, again the first year of the Junior Chamber of Commerce, the store felt it'd be good to have a representative there, and I joined. There was then a thousand young businessmen, and we'd meet at the Adolphus every week. And I began to get on committees and then on the board. And they had the first World Congress since before World War II, going to be in Brussels. a big Texas delegation was going to go, because John Ben Sheppard was then the national president from Texas, later to become the number two job in the state.
So we had a delegation from Dallas, and I was named as one of them. And I wrote a series of ten articles for the Dallas News at the time on the trip as it went along, and carried letters from Mayor Temple then to the Lord Mayor of London and Paris and so forth, and met fascinating people and had my first trip really to Europe then. And that's a-this was 49. Then they also had-I was worried about some of the reactionary stuff that went on. Bob Dedman worked for H.L. Hunt and used to give these writers' kind of talks and so on. the Americanism Committee, so I could kind of know what was going around and put in another viewpoint And then the Freedom Train comes along about then and Dallas is one of the stops on it And I get appointed chairman of that committee to make the arrangements One day I get a call from Mayor Temple saying Bob, we got problems.
I said, what's the problem? He says, in Memphis, I think it was, he says, they've canceled it, because Negroes have to get in the same room. I said, man, you've got no problem. I said, they're going to make a bad name for themselves. This is the Freedom Train. This is America, see. You're going to have police there to control the crowd anyway, so if anybody has worries, they don't need to worry. So it went off beautifully. way, and forever after when we'd go to a public thing and make a temple, he'd say to people, I'll be the same in my life, see. We had freedom.
So them was the days. We've come a long way. But as Martin Luther King said, we've still got a way to go. What has the family structure been over the years? Our first Alfred was born in July of 1947. Our second David was in December 2nd of 1949. And then Johnny came on May the 23rd of 1953. So we have three splendid sons who've given us five grandchildren now. Alfred lives in Washington and is with the government and Department of Energy for many years. David practices residential real estate, a buyer's resource. He tries to find the best house and needs of the buyer. and Johnny is in commercial real estate and with a few clients he acquires property for them, manages and leases it.
Did you have any extended family? Larry's mother came down in the late 50s. She had never driven, so she came to learn to drive in Dallas. And she had a wonderful almost 13 years before she passed away and immediately became active in the choir, at Temple, and all kinds of things. And she loved to travel. And she and Ruth Cahan went around the world, your co-founder, Gigi Jacobs of the Dallas Jewish Historical Society, and became, I think, a well-liked member of the community. And though she never lived right with us, she had a good life here. Did you grow up having any exciting memories of the family living here?
In the house, when I was very young, when my grandma Beer passed away, I was then three, four years old. He lived with us for a year before he found his own apartment hotel where he lived the rest of his life. His name was David Beer. He was also from Germany. Now, he came over. He was first generation in 1882. He worked for his uncle in the jewelry business, traveled through the west-south region, and telling the miners jewelry and some of his stories of wrecks and the narrow-gauge railroad and how with his heavy trunk in Leadville he didn't know what happens at 10,000 feet and he could hardly breathe, how he jumped in Great Salt Lake and the water's so salty that he hit with a real bounce and it hurts.
Do you have any other comments? That's an interesting subject. Alfred the oldest married a girl he met in college and she was raised in an Anglican family was born in England and so he got married at the Episcopal Church We had asked that they make limited Christological reference, but the preacher said that King James wrote it, and he wasn't going to change it. But then Johnny married a non-Jewish girl, and so we had two non-Jewish daughters. David didn't marry until he was well up in his 40s. We now have two Jewish daughter-in-laws, and Johnny is divorced, but all our daughter-in-laws are Jewish from all daughter-in-laws not being Jewish.
We liked Angie, our first one, particularly well and felt fair that the marriage didn't work out. Alfred now raises a Jewish child in Washington. Time. First thing, Mike. This is Ginger Jacobs and we're now in Bob Veer's office. It is February 2, 1998. And this is our second session. All right, Bob, just for the record, we had talked a little bit about holidays and observing as you were growing up, and I had asked you just now about Sukkot. Can you tell me if there was any recognition of the holidays as you were growing up? In the area of New York and Manhattan that I grew up, we mostly all lived in 12- to 16-story apartments.
As a result, there was no place for a Sukkot, but we knew what Sukkot was, and of course, celebrate the spirit of it anyway. Did you go to temple on those days? No, circus was considered a minor holiday, so we can attend synagogue on that day. And I don recall one even being at the Reformed synagogue Temple Israel at that time Temple Israel by the way the family synagogue was one where my grandparents were married my parents met in confirmation class, my parents were married, I was bar mitzvahed, and Jerry and I were married by the rabbi of Temple Israel, so we have a three-generation history there.
What about Shuruah? Well, at Sunday school, of course, Shuruah was recognized, but it was not a major holiday. But as long as you're discussing holidays, Tisha B'Av was not a reform, it's not a celebration to start with, but remembrance. But I attended this Orthodox camp, kosher camp up in Pennsylvania, and it came during the summer, of course. So that's when I learned of Tisha Bowery, that the remembrance of the fall of the temple took place. Now, did you learn about all of the holidays, even though you did not learn to say Jerusalem? Was there discussion in religious schools? Whatever reform synagogues taught in religious school, presumably I learned.
I liked Sunday school, unlike a lot of kids, and was more diligent, I would say, than the average. Was there confirmation in that? Oh, yeah, confirmation was the thing, As I think I said earlier, bat mitzvah was rare, and bat mitzvah was unheard of at that time. Now, we had talked a little bit about the Jewish Community Center, and I'd really like to explore. Before we leave that subject only in relatively recent years I learned that my great was a rabbi I found some old photographs of the probably 1870s or 80s and there was this man that had a yarmulke on his head, the kind that rose up rather than followed the contour of the head and found out that Kalman Heller was a rabbi.
Now, was he Orthodox? Another relative, by the way, I mentioned how the Sanger's came in, and Hannah Sanger, Hannah Heller Sanger, who married Sam Sanger, Sam studied to be a rabbi, partially in Berlin, came back to the States and I think started in Philadelphia to be a rabbi when he was called by the other Sanger brothers who'd already established stores in Texas. They needed more manpower and he became the head of the Waco store with Lehman's Sanger. But only Sam Sanger would be related to us through his marriage to Hannah Heller Sanger. Now, were they in the, or which tradition were they rabbis in? That's a good question, whether he was still traditional.
Of course, having gone to Germany, reform began in Germany with Moses Mendelssohn, and so I really don't know. but all I and my great-grandfather. But interestingly enough, one thing he did not give up was the yarmulke. He generally wore a Humber, but he wore a yarmulke under it. He had a lovely beard, and I always wondered whether he slept with it outside the blanket or under the blanket. Is there anything else you'd like to add before we leave? Oh, things will come up as we go along that'll remind me of this or that. You arrived on the scene and the experience you had with the evolution of the film.
Well, it began almost immediately. As I mentioned earlier, I would go down to Pocahontas Street, and the Federation was there, And immediately we became friends with Jack Kravitz, who was Federation Director, Lois Kravitz. And the center was in the same building, so I could see what they were doing. And I remember the gymnasium, which was also the dance hall and everything else. And as I was kidding, Ginger, Ginger Chesnick was busy playing basketball before she met Mike. And one of the things I distinctly remember was this little girl who was very active down there in the community. And I remember Sheriff Israel on the edge of the little park area or square.
And Rabbi Weisfeld, I think, was still the head. And Rabbi Abramowitz headed one of the Orthodox synagogues. And there's a cute one there. being at E.M. Cannes and being the oldest store in town it was kind of a crossroads and people would come in all the time and Mr. Cannes wanting me to know the community would introduce me to people that he felt he ought to know so when Rabbi Abramowitz came in one day he said Rabbi, tell Bob Beer how you describe our form of Judaism. You mean the deformed Jews? And he said, no, but I do like to call that comfortable Judaism. And I thought that was one of the better descriptions I had heard of Reformed Judaism He was a lovely man as I recall And that was one of the many people we met as they came through How did you get involved in this thing?
Well, the system in the old days was somebody had a committee and they needed manpower. And if they got to meet you, they asked, would you help me and my committee? And then soon you were on the committee and if you performed well enough and the chairman got tired, they were looking for a new chairman, so you became a chairman. And then if there were a board of trustees in the organization, by the way, at that time the center was a department of the federation. It was not its own separate organization. That came later. And even the home for the aged at the beginning was under federation, but gradually these organizations as they grew and had stronger executive heads of them, they desired their own freedom of action and wanted their own boards rather than just a committee and to handle their own finances more, and that's how the organized committee worked toward the present day.
So I worked on committees and then became a member of a board, and if you worked hard enough or you couldn't get anybody else, you could become vice president and president. Leon Naget, Dr. Katz, and Dr. Halperin, I think were the three that came before me. There was kind of a hiatus in the center movement for a while. It began actually as a YMHA back in the days that George Sheps, who just recently passed way was one of the heads and I trying to think of the attorney who was connected with Morris Jaffe He was a city councilman at one time a wonderful lawyer but he had been an early center person and it grew to be a major institution.
It happened, I became president around 53, 54, and just at this time the Jewish community was kind of en masse, the old community moving from South Dallas up into the Preston Hollow area. So the institutions, beginning with the synagogues, likewise began to move and then taking kids all the way down to South Dallas if you lived in Preston Hollow was difficult, so the desire for a community center further out. I had just started in real estate, so I worked on that. Ann Kelman, who was a leading woman community worker, former lawyer from Cleveland, and served on the zoning committee, worked with me because zoning was a problem.
Could we get the zoning necessary to conduct the activities of the center? and eventually we found the spot which is the center, main center today. And there was unfortunately a group of leaders who thought that was way out in Hubbardsville And I remember Maris Jaffe saying, the center of Jewish population is University in Preston Road, and to go way out there. but I believe it was Irving Edison of the Jewish Welfare Board who came through town or a man who headed International B B and built a whole city outside of Chicago But they pointed out that the normal life of an institution was about 40 years and the location you bought was where it would be 20 years from the current center, and so then you had 20 years getting out, and 20 years as the community went further out beyond you." And as it turned out, we now have a Plano branch of the community center.
How about that process of getting the land and the discussions that went on about Well, there was a marvelous experience. We had a meeting when we found this site, and Henry Miller, Sr., was then the leading Jewish real estate person and important community leader of his own right. And we had a meeting, and we said, And Mr. Millick, your opinion is very important to us. What do you think? We're paying $2,000. No, it was $4,000 an acre for part of it, and part of it's $4,200 an acre. So he said, too much money. So I gritted my teeth. We've been looking for two years, and this was the best buy and the best place where we thought we had the best chance of getting the zoning.
So I said, Mr. Miller, you know how we respect your knowledge, opinion, integrity, and so forth. When you say that, you must either have a better piece of property that meets the needs or one for less money. And I'd like to know what you would recommend other than this. Give me a few minutes. And he thought a little bit and he said, you know, I apologize. I remember that Bob Baxter, the head of the Rio Grande Life, put in Development called Eudora Estates, half a dozen blocks from there within the last year, and I heard that he had paid something around $4,000, but my problem is I've been at this so long.
I remember when that was farm acreage out in the country, he said, and $500 was kind of the figure. And this is what long-time British state people have to combat in the city growing as rapidly and an economy growing at the same time. So anyway, we bought it. And later, when they wanted to expand for additional buildings, The property adjacent got up to something like $7 a foot or $280,000. So we made a good ride. When they hadn't put in the Central Expressway at that point, but it was planned and meant the people could come from almost anywhere quickly and end up just a block away to reach the center.
How did this committee come about, and how many acres did you wind up? Oh, we bought 14 acres at that time. How did the committee, how did it come about, and had the decision already been made? Oh, by the way, the first thing we did, they didn't have the money for building what's there today, so they built a little building at the east end of the property for a summer camp location. From that, then a group built the central building. Gonski was very active, Irvin Waldman, Mickey Rubin, Philip Vogel, all the names that make a thrill of honor today and doing good things for the Jewish community Can you back up a little bit and elaborate a little bit on the discussion that went on until the committee was formed in terms of moving the center Well, the first thing, as I said, was a two-year process of trying to find a location.
When we found one, then we just needed an approval of a board and out of the Federation. And to get that, we wanted most prospective people, such as Henry Miller, who had been at it. I was one year in the business, so certainly I wasn't going to make myself any authority. All I had was the two years of looking to know what little was available. I remember a location also on North Haven that we had looked at prior next to what's now the tollway, And there was a power station transmitter center, and they held a zoning meeting, and a fellow who was head of a steward title here, and I suspected maybe a little anti-Semitic, We don't want these transients coming through and bums that will stay for the night and so forth.
The concept maybe you thought the YMCA would be a YMCA with a residential thing, which of course was never contemplated in any case. So we finally went to Marvin Springer, the executive of the zoning process here, and said, you tell us where we can get approval. And he was good enough. He, of course, respected Ann Kellman, who served on his commission, and he drove with this for a day and when we had this site he said I think we can get it there with the nearness of the freeway and they have commercial zoning rights on the freeway And the property, part of the property was the home of Humphrey Lee, who had been president of SMU and head of Highland Park Methodist Church, and a Mr.
Hammer in the air conditioning bill business. had bought it, and we were helping him get some retail, 7-Eleven, around the Texaco station. Eventually the Teiches acquired part of that property when Mr. Hammer gave up his home on the site, the former Lee home. Now what year was this? Well, this is all 52, 53, 54. Would it be accurate to say that you worked on this from 1952 to 1954? Yeah. Okay. Prior to that time, had the decision already been made to, in fact, move the center north, or was that still un- Well, the community feeling, and certainly the uses thereof, by the time half or two-thirds or more were living north of South Dallas, north of the then-existing Pocahontas Street thing.
This is the desire, even as Emmanuel, the sheriff of Israel, and Gudezachem. Did the Guduzachim ever come out here at all, or just Deferith Israel? Deferith. I know Deferith. It was not completely secure. Before they came out. And there was some talk about starting on in North Haven, but they could be secure. But in terms of federation, where were they on this issue, and what was their role? Well, of course, they were the source of the money in those days, but then gradually people remember Mr Adansky in particular who was a great money raiser and was very enthusiastic about the whole idea I can jump forward some years, and that is when Federation had moved from South Dallas downtown, then actually came out just a couple blocks, a block from where we're sitting, and had a fire there.
And then the desire to build a Federation building came up. So the very building we're sitting in was one that was considered. The Teiches had built it, and they built a fine building, and they were willing to make a very favorable deal because it was the Federation. But another group, represented by Mr. Donsky, wanted the building to be on the campus of what is now JCC and where the Federation is. and they won out over people like Mr. Rabiner who wanted this building and felt we'd get more building for less money and not necessarily have a family service where people who had problems and difficulties might not want others who knew them in the community to see them utilizing that service and therefore maybe another place would be better and this would be close wide but still separate.
But it worked out that a building was built that unfortunately turned out to be a mess because the basement floods and so on. Right now there's talk of new buildings because that one even was just federation in it because family service had to move out because of the physical problems of the building. Let's talk about your career within the camp and what it was like. If you think of other things you want to add to the people. Well, it was quite fascinating. Claim to be the pioneer store in town, certainly, that survived. And but there was always a question, which came first, Sanger's or Cairns?
Sanger was earlier in Texas, they began, they claim, in 1857 in the first store, and they were known as terminal merchants. As the railroad would advance, they would move out to the furthest point, the terminal, and then the ranchers and farmers would come in to that point, bring their crops, which the railroad would pick up, and this was a good place to buy and sell. And the merchants often bought the crop, sometimes even before it came in, would give credit to the farmer to buy his supplies, clothing, salt, and other things that he couldn't raise himself. And this is, Sanger was one of those. And they claim 1872, and Mr.
Kane claims 1872. and I can remember Lawrence sitting, he had a place right by the door and it was on a platform maybe eight inches high and he'd have his armchair there and his desk so he could look out over the whole store and see what was going on. And often when an old timer came in, 80, 90 years old, and say, do you remember? And he took great delight when one old-timer says, I can remember old man Shanger still had a pat on his back after Mr. Ken had gotten it in the store down by the courthouse. That was the proof, see, that he was the oldest.
And another great story was on the 50th anniversary of the store, someone asked E.M. Kahn why he came to Dallas. He was born in Alsace and came over the war of the 1870 Franco War The Jewish population had been France before that, became unsettled. He arrived in Savannah, Georgia and gradually started across the south. and he said people walked slow and talked slow, but when I got to Dallas, he said people seemed to walk faster and talk faster. And I said, I think that place is going to make a go of it. And also the railroad came to Dallas in 1872, and from a village it grew.
What about your experience with your own experience? Well, the Cairns were wonderful. Ruth and Lawrence almost acted like parents and mentors and wanted Jerry and I to integrate in the community and urges to join the Columbian Club and the congregation and to get to know people. Part of a successful business, retail, is to make people want to come and when they shop they can see you and you can greet them. The store at that time was almost 72 years or so old, so they were well known and well thought of in the community as a fine store. Mr. Cannes at that point, the soldiers were coming home from the war, and there was a great shortage of clothing.
and there were much more demand than supply, and he would hold close when they came in, especially for returning people from the service. And he worried about this a great deal. I even think it was a factor in his early demise. In his early demise he worried about it You couldn get a car so that was a problem at first and only because my only uncle's company, Miller Brother Hat Company, was moving to Corsicana that summer for building a factory down there. And they had ordered a station wagon, and the building wasn't finished. and Alex Siegel, who was their Texas Miller wholesale representative, said he could get another car, so they let me have one.
But Mr. Kahn asked his telephone. Yeah, so he asked Duran could he get a car for his new employee and so on. And Duran said, I can get more than the asking price and so on. So he said, I don't have cars even at the face price. Mr. Cain was working so hard to get suits at the best price possible for returning soldiers, was angry. So I've never bought any cars that way. Now I joined Mr. Bromberg, who was Mr. Cairn's associate. Louis Bromberg was a brilliant man who I think was able to get a Rhodes Scholarship. He was a classy, knew Greek and Latin, and was a leading student at the University of Texas, and was a bachelor.
I think the greatest compliment I ever got was one day he said, they brought in you and me, he said, on top of the family so they have some brains. Whether that was so or not it sure sounded good He was a very volatile man When you get angry, your face would get all red. And one day he got angry at the representative of the Dallas Morning News, the advertising representative. And they'd done something with his ad. and he used to supervise the advertisements. He'd say, Do you know what it takes to write for the Dallas Morning News? No, Mr. Bromberg. Well, I'm going to tell you.
It takes three things. A piece of paper, a pencil, and a desire to write. No ability to write, just a desire to write. But he was comfortable with a casual, and he was a lovely man. What was his point to him? Well, he was, you say, the right-hand man of Mr. Can. He did planning, and women's wear he supervised, too. Mr. Cannes was the clothing and the haberdashery, shoes and so forth, and maybe the boys' department, but Mr. Bromberg had the women's department upstairs, ladies' dresses and coats and suits. And he had a fire, Mrs. Valentine. Mrs. Allen. What was your function? What did you do?
Well, I had the title of assistant controller at the start, but Morton Sanger and a very able lady under him who for years, and she did a very competent job. They really didn't need a figure man, but Mr. Cairn had responded to my ad which said, The buying and control function. So by control, I was referring to the physical accounting of inventory rather than the finances and so on of the company. So it ended up that I really did merchandising, though when Mr. Cann passed away, sadly within a year of my arriving, and new offices were given. I was given the title of treasurer, which didn't really mean anything in the function, but it was a nice name.
And that's the title I carried for two and a half years. But I actually, assistant in ladies ready to wear, set up an accessories department, did public relations in the sense of Louis wanted you to be involved in the community. And when the first Brotherhood Week came in February of my first year, there were very few Jewish speakers who went out and spoke for the National Conference of Christians and Jews. He said, I would like you to do that. I said, I've never publicly spoken. Here in the South, you're encouraged in school to get up on your feet and learn to speak, but a priest, that was not common.
So we went out in a group that included Reverend Dickerson, who was assistant pastor at Highland Park Methodist, And a Catholic man, I think his name was McCaffrey, who had 13 children. That was his big plus. We go to a little church in Arlington, which at that time was like a thousand people, and it had farms there. and this meeting is in the basement in this little church and we're standing around before supper and a man comes in probably from the field khakis he put a little sweat on him and he walks up to the three of us and he looks at each of us and he says you the Jew I ain't nervous enough about my first speech.
And the others get a big kick out of this. And I said, yes? And he says, no one wants. So that was part of my introduction to Texas. And this is February 1947. Then encouraged me to join the Junior Chamber of Commerce. And this was a vibrant group of almost a thousand young businessmen and met every week, and I enjoyed that luncheon walk up to the Adolphus from the store. And I got on a committee referring to the system before, and the Americanism committee, because I was concerned, it was a very conservative organization. And at that time, for example, Bob Dedman, who later became Country Clubs of America, he represented H.L.
Hunt and would speak for conservative causes and such form. So I figured on Americanism, I wanted to be sure it was my version of a democratic America, because fascism was still hanging around. And a lot of things came out of that, but eventually I became in line to be president, and I was treasurer of the junior chamber at the time I went in the real estate business in 1952. And I had brought in Phil Vogel, who had just come to town working for Helmut Rosenthal, and he became treasurer after I left. And that wonderful group of people. When they came the Rosenthal had a group get together as the Cairns did when they looked me over and I remember it was at the Preston Country Club at Forrest and we got to meet the Vogels and became close friends thereafter.
How is it that you have to remove the Cairns? So at this point, Cairns began to open branch stores. I'd like to feel that I strongly encourage that. First, business was beginning to leave downtown, and that was the move and the trend. And we opened one at Inwood, and we opened one up the street next to Neiman's, a little small store. And then in the summer of 52, we decided to put one in the new Wynwood Shopping Center in Oak Cliff, which was a beautiful one being developed by the Wyn family. And I was put in charge of that. When it opened, on opening day the mayor came and everything else, and afterwards we went to the Wyatt cafeteria next door for some coffee and such.
I said to Gene, who had become the new president, I'd like to make a different arrangement. You pay me a salary and you give me a little bonus at the end of the year and the third child coming need more. But I'm willing to give up the bonus and work instead on my accomplishments. if I make a profit or increase the sales related to that. And Gene looked at me and he said, Bob, you're a good old boy, but he says you've got one problem. You're too ambitious. I said, what? He said all over this country they looking for people who are ambitious You telling me it a problem and I knew I had a problem at that point So shortly before Jerry's father had passed away, and he had a real estate property in New York that was his home.
I mean, it was a physician in his office, and we had a chance to sell it. So I wanted to reinvest it down here, and I knew two real estate men, Henry Miller and Lawrence Miller. So I went to see each of them, and I said, we're going to be in the market for a property in the area of $50,000, and if you see something, a good investment property, please call us." And time passed, and I didn't hear from anybody, and something that I've always noticed, that money chases real estate rather than real estate money. And so one day I ran into Mr. Lawrence down on Main Street, and I said, did you forget me?
Oh, no, he said, a property just came in and my son Bud has joined me and it's down in Waco, an old Sanger brother building no less. And he said, I'm too old to drive down there, but he'll take you down and you'll see if that fits. So Bud picked me up at the store. I said, I'm working, I just can't go down. We worked six days a week and two nights at that time. Oh, he says, you get lunch hour, don't you? He says, you're halfway to Waco and I'll have you back and so on. So we went down, we looked at this building, which by the way we acquired.
And on the way back, I said, gee, this is fun. And you get out in the air and you see new things all the time and so on. Since you just started, maybe you'd like a partner in this. I'm looking to do something. I can't go on doing this. But he says, I needed to make this deal. I've got three kids to feed and I'm just starting out, so what am I going to tell the guy? I don't want him. So next thing I know, he says, we're in business, Miller Beer. We actually signed up at SMU, took a night course in real estate, because I never owned anything except my one house up until that time.
But it was a good time, a good place, and things went well. My mother was very upset that a widow knew y'all. She said, you're with a fine company, you've got a regular salary, you might not be quite enough, but maybe you're growing it. But to give that up and not know what's going to earn, well, the first year we made almost as much, Where was the city going at that point in time in terms of companies? Well, of course, Dallas has been a truly remarkable story in the development of American cities in the 19th and 20th century, so we just luckily picked the right place.
I had looked at jobs in Chicago and St. Louis and so on, and none of them, of course, have grown as Dallas had. And the friendliness of the people here, the warmth and the opportunities. In New York, if you were in the 400 or something, you got to participate in important things here. as long as you were willing and had any ability at all, you were accepted in organizations and given the opportunity to help make things grow. What was the Jewish community about? At that point, Mr. Cairn said there were about maybe 2 population And it was just the point that all the people who had been here in the war and liked it decided this would be a good place It wasn't for that reason that I came here because my service was in New Guinea, in the Seabees.
But it just grew from there. I remember the first property we bought in Irving, Texas, and I looked at the census, and Irving was something like 2,600 people in 1940, and maybe 200,000 a day. It's phenomenal growth. Being a member of Temple Emanuel, did you socialize with the sheriff's official members? What was the social theme at that point in time? I have used the term connections thousands of times. My collection of the Beer archives I call connections. And Rabbi Lefkowitz, when my mother came down to visit, and he was in Dayton for many years, and she had relatives in Dayton, and they went to Sunday school, and it was Lefkowitz, and so immediately.
Then the only relatives I had, though I hadn't known them before, but Morton and Eugene and so on, were distant cousins. and then they had their social group and we got to know them. A couple of things I learned from Hortense who was a tremendous human being. Don't say anything bad about anybody in the Jewish community because even though the person you say to might hate them, They're insulting you over their families, so that's one thing. Then she would say, there are three groups in Dallas. There are the thinkers the drinkers and the stinkers So classifications of folks Then there always the problem in a new city The old-timers, they have their own life set.
They have family, and they have their own friends, and to break into that isn't easy. So the newcomers tend to join with the newcomers. So the Vogels were newcomers, the Bakers were newcomers, and so-and-so that you form your own group that way. The Kravitzes have come down 1940 or so, and you find your commonality there. But we just got to know a lot of folks and care for them. Were you also involved in federations? Well, because the Cravinses became first-year good friends, so the first drive, obviously I'm going to go out and solicit and become involved, and then on to committees. Budget committee I worked on, became head of the budget committee and the large city budget committee and went to national meetings all over the United States.
What about the participants in the Federation? Were they? I remember Morris in those days was active, Morris Jaffe, Minnie Solomonson. I remember meeting in Washington. We would go down to Florida to national meetings there. But then the greatest thing was in 1962 when the first mission to Israel took place, led by Jack Kravitz. Lois didn't go, Ria Wolfram, who was a good friend, she went. The doctor couldn't leave, it was a month we went. Sixteen days in Israel but then we visited Jewish communities in Rome in Vienna Paris London visited the first Holocaust remembrances And the refugees were on the move at that point still.
The big movement at that point was from Romania into Austria before transferring to Israel. and Israel is one of the great excitements of all time when you, particularly on that first visit, you find your eyes tearing and just, it's hard to describe, you've just got to go experience it. And we were able to get, Jerry and I have both been there four or five times. One trip she went by herself with a women's group from Congress, and another time we were supposed to go, and Jerry, what was the illness she got, the kissing thing? A mononucleosis. She owes us to the hospital, and I had her ticket, and I took David and Johnny with me.
So they got a chance to visit, and this was right after the 73 war. And the Congress had a big travel set up, which was one of their fundraising methods, which fell off to nothing right at that point. So in an attempt to revive it, though we had the every two-year meeting scheduled in New York in early February, they decided to cut it from four days to two days, and then all that could got on El Al Plain and went on to Israel to continue the meeting there. We were to meet with Doug Conn and Maia was there, and Chaim Herzog, and Teddy Collick, of course.
So I got to meet him again on the National Conference of Christians and Jews trip. I got a picture of us and my certificate from his office as a Jerusalemite. But there were many, and the boys of course loved it. They still had Mount Hermon, which I think they do today, but they were almost up to Damascus at that point. That city that got destroyed we saw, it was freezing cold. The tanks that they had captured, the Russian attachments, were all by the side of the road. Kids had pictures in the tanks, big stuff. Richard Cohen was the publicity director and a vice president of the Congress, and I was by myself, and he had a suite overlooking the old city, so he invited me to share it.
And one of the things I remember, I was going down to supper, and I come out to wait for the elevator, and who comes out of another room in the hall but B. Weisbrod? So he was with a dasar, some Nahamat group, finally a women. What about the center, both of the institutions? Sometimes was there a meeting of the groups from Temple and Sheriffs and Ithaca and all of the synodads? Well, let's say Federation first. Were all the people fought together working in Federation, or were they more than one of Well, to me, he just worked with whomever would help get the job completed. The biggest division in those early days was the Council for Judaism.
Here, the need to take care of Holocaust victims from all over the world, and then after the 57 war, the group from the Arab countries just called for constant fundraising to help on huge mass movements We had a group that just was anathema to them to anything Israel or a secular state or a theological state My God, we were Jewish religion, nothing else. Peoplehood was not an idea they could accept, or called Israel, or anything of that sort. So some of these people had important position in the community in terms of economic accomplishment or political accomplishment. So that didn't make it any easier. But gradually those who met the need became the leaders.
And what about in the center issues? You're working in Jewish community, do you have some of the things? No, I don't seem to recall that at all. If you liked to play basketball, you didn't play orthodox basketball or basketball or Zionist basketball. You played basketball. Well, one of the issues in moving the campus was whether it should be new and whether it should be called a second-stud issue. Well, it's going to be moved, the question. Yeah, as I said before, I don't seem to remember or wasn't involved in name change. Julius Sheps, of course, was a super great figure in those early years. He was loved all through the community, I mean general community as well as the Jewish community.
and played an important part in the Civil Rights days in getting the conservatives to come along a little bit. Sam Bloom was another at that time. They were part of the Committee of Seven or Fourteen or whatever it was that I think got things moving in Dallas A part that might be appropriate here after the Little Rock incident Dallas business leaders said, we don't want that to happen here, so we're going to try to find some ways to make transitions smoother. And busing began in Dallas, and there was a lot upset about that, particularly with the old againers. So a group was formed to bring volunteers into public schools to help that transition.
And a committee, I think, was set up. Debbie Halliday was the head of the committee, but some Jewish volunteers, Mrs. Fagadau and Rosie Stromberg, was active with the school system. And so I was called would I participate? Important, I would want to. So they send me to Sudie Williams School, and the principal said, what do you want to do? And I said, I want to do what you need. If I'm able to do it, what do you need? And he said, can you read to little kids? And I said, oh, boy, I would really love to do that. And that was about 23 or 24 years ago.
And I'm still reading. I got promoted from first grade and second grade to kindergarten and first grade. So we talk about the three bears. The papa bear. The mama bear. And the little baby bear. And I love it, and the kids seem to do so. We go on. As long as I can get myself into a room and get me heard we do Oh I think it is Doctor Well, I want to note that this is take number three, and we are still in Bob Beers' office. It is February the 2nd, 1998. As I recall, when we finished the second tape, we were discussing Sudie Williams School and reading to the kids there.
And I would say of all my activities over the last 51 years, that's been one of the most pleasurable. This is probably the 23rd or 4th year. back in the days of the civil rights movement and bussing started at school and became very important to make a smooth transition, led me to be one of the volunteers to go into the schools and help with that transition. Ms. Fagadow and Stromberg were working in the school system, and when they sent me to Suti Williams and the principal said, what could you do? And I said, what do you need? And he said, could you read the kids?
And I said, I would love that. All the ham in me can come out. And for all these years now since, I was reading the first and second grade, but I got promoted to kindergarten and first. And kids seemed to enjoy it, and I know I do even more than they do. So we continue to do that. But we thought we'd talk a little about the whole civil rights movement, which both Jerry and I have been very interested in. When I was in the line of succession for the presidency of the Real Estate Board, I had been five years on the board, came into the treasureship and then the second vice presidency and so on.
This was just at the time. The moment that open housing became a big question, and neither the home builders group or the real estate boards favored this. They were very much against it. And at a huge open meeting to discuss the position, I got up and I said that I couldn't shave in the morning and look in that mirror if I felt that anybody who could afford and wanted better housing was denied it because of the color of their skin or religion or any other thing. And I just in no way could go along with such a problem, and I was going to dissent as strongly as I could.
And shortly thereafter, when the election occurred, and after being talked to by some of the leading people in the state board who called me in and said, why do you got to create problems and blah, blah, blah, blah, one of whom was then the president of the Dallas Country Club. And he said to me, just look at this wonderful place. I was a poor boy and I was a caddy at the Lakewood Country Club and I have come to be president of the leading place and the whole thing. I said, I think that's very wonderful, but if you also thought that I'm not eligible to join your club because I happen to be Jewish?" So anyway, at the next election they decided that it was only 51 to 49 that decided to present, but maybe it was God's will too, because instead of devoting all my time, and it took lots the time of being president of the board, I was free to do real estate business.
Maybe my clients were better off too So it turned out to be okay because the things that we stood for at that point were what eventually resulted at least in that particular regard you can buy a house no matter what your nationality, religion, or color is in Dallas at this time. Were there other Jews in the Middle East, the Jews in the Middle East? There were relatively few at that time, but then another marvelous story comes to mind. My partner, Bud Miller, whose father was first president of the board and first president the State Association going back 50, 60 years before at that time, Bud became president of the board.
At that time, he was the only Jewish member on the board of directors. At this very point, the first consul of Israel came to Dallas. Instead of Houston, Dallas was the first city to have an Israel consul. Jack Kravitz called and he says they're going to need a small office, they can't spend very much money, they need to be downtown near the courthouse and the post office for what consuls do, see if you can find a place. And at that very moment the real estate board itself had a little suite with one office and a place for a secretary. So Marty Dagan, the first counsel, came and we showed him it, and great.
He just fitted what he wanted was a block from the post office. So the meeting- You said where it was, but where was it? I don't know. Oh, it was on Irby Street, just a block up from the Republic Bank building and next to the post office and all the good things. A week after they moved in, where on one side of the entry to the building was the seal, national seal of the National Association of Realtors on the other is the seal of the State of Israel Abu and White and Hebrew and so on They have a board of directors meeting and they all come down they standing out in front and so the directors turn to Bud Miller and they say, Bud, tell us what that says there, and their hand moves from right to left, and Bud says, boy, you're asking the right one.
He says, I was the worst student they had at Temple Emanuel Sunday School. He says, I married a Baptist girl. He says, I can't tell you what that says. But one thing I can tell you, whatever it says, it don't say it right to left. It says it left to right. That much I know. So that was always been a favorite story. And that's how the real estate board learned about the state of Israel in a little Hebrew how it at least went. What year was that year? Well, that must have been about 1961 or two, because that was before the first mission to Israel that we were on, and after that, the Second Consul, though I can see him in front of me, his name slips me, he came in 62, and Motti went on to London and to Canada, other places.
You know, they had a KKK around here. Yes, can you talk about that a little bit? Well, the KKK, you don't have it on? Yes. The KKK I was thinking of was Ken the Cam-Holson K. Okay. Different than the one you were coming. A little bit, but the KKK was around in the 20s. Was there any sounds of it in the 40s that you can remember? No, I don't remember any strong presence between Rabbi Lefkowitz and I think the Dallas Morning News came out against it, and we were blessed to get it suppressed around here. But there was a strong presence The head of KKK originally from Waco was around here and we had a salesman at EM10 clothing salesman, who knew him personally, and they liked each other as people.
And the guy in the KKK said, when we establish the Jewish branch, I'm going to make you the rabbi I wizened in that branch. Which brings us to the issue of anti-Semitism, and how has that affected you, and what have you seen during your time and out? This was probably a very important motivation in my involvement. I first recognized him in my teenage thing, and Father Coughlin was around. In New York, with its highly large population of Jewish people, there was the Irish neighborhood, And when you walk through to get to the library, the kids would, there goes the Jew boy and so forth. So I became aware of it.
Now college is where I first really met it. At Penn, being an Ivy League school, there was a Class A and a Class B fraternity. The B's was the Jewish. There were certain things you couldn't get on. The school newspaper, the pencil, and editorial staff. Business section? They're happy to take you. You could sell ads. Football management, you could come out to do the work, but you would never become a manager or assistant manager. And the most important thing was the limited quota even, and there were relatively few Jewish professors at that time. I'm glad to say today that it's totally different, but that's what it was then.
Then, when I came here and found a conference of Christians and Jews dedicated to getting people together, and all human relations became a major interest of mine, even maybe a passion of. And so that's something I have tried to work for. And anything that would improve that, I tried to take apart. I don't know if I mentioned I had become involved in the Americanism Committee of the Junior Chamber because I was a little concerned, it was a very conservative organization at that time what some of the tendencies might be. H.L. Hunt's group was powerful and so on. So the Freedom Train came about the late 1840s.
They took a train and they put the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, other great documents. This was about 1948 to 9, give or take. I got appointed being on that committee to head that project, and Mayor Thornton was the mayor at first, and then Jimmy Temple became the mayor. And I get a call one night at home from Mayor Temple. He said, Bob, we've got a problem. I said, what problem might you have? He says, Memphis is turning down the Freedom Train. He says, do you know Negroes can stand on the same line? There's a Freedom Train. But I said I don know what your worry is If it uh fights could happen or something you going to have police to control crowds in any case and there not going to be any trouble, in my opinion.
So, uh, I said, all Memphis is going to get is a bad name in this country and the world because of that. So years afterwards, if we'd meet in some public thing, he all said, Dear save my life on that freedom train! And I carried letters for him when the Junior Chamber had its first World Congress after the war in Brussels, and he gave me letters to the mayor of, Lord Mayor of London and the mayor of Paris and so on, and that was kind of fun. The Lord Mayor of Paris was represented by Pierre de Gaulle, the brother of Charles de Gaulle, and we got to meet him, took the letter from us.
A lot of good things came out of that. Now, what was the actual function? You talked about being on the Americanism community during the change of Congress. Yeah. What was your actual activity and being on that committee? How did you deal with that? Well, if subjects came up, should the board, the chamber, support it or be against it, or so on. So people like myself were trying to get the more democratic, small d, things, better human relations to resolve rather than the same old separation that existed, get people the rights that they were being denied. Now that involved, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, Well, any minority group who was getting less than their full rights being accomplished wanted more opportunities.
Do you meet with any opportunities Well as I told before in the matter of the Real Estate Board that was an example Right, but in terms of the Junior Chamber of Families. Well, actually, I never had a problem within the Junior Chamber itself in the sense of personal so on that I was aware of. I became well aware in the State Board, though one of the ironic things was that people would come up to me constantly and they'd look this way and look this way and see if anybody was listening and said, I really think you're right, but I can't say anything because I can't afford that trouble.
What about, let's talk about the Jewish people, even though there were less people on that New Estate board. Where were they in terms of immigration? Well there have been some fascinating articles written recently, and at the meeting of the Southern Jewish Historical Society along with the Texas Jewish in Hot Springs, some books have been written, and there was discussion how in many southern communities when B'nai or ADL or anyone else would come out for anti-segregation or whatever else, Civil Rights Act, the Jewish community said, shh, shh, because they were afraid, being just a few Jews in a small town and the merchant, that they'd be boycotted.
They were worried even for life and health. Medgar Evans was being shot, and three Shaney Goodman, and so forth. So they had fears. And if the rabbis spoke out too much, it was even-they had problems. Did you find that here as well Not really When Levi Olin came he was an avowed liberal highly respected and so that I think helped And Rabbi Afzai became active in the faith thing. So it became a progressive community. I always liked the term progressive rather than liberal. So moving forward, you don't have to give something away. If that's how I understand liberal, one who's philanthropic. Did the people who affiliated with the American Council of Judaism, did they reflect in fear in this area?
A commentary I would like to make, and I was just discussing this the other day. Some people always say, oh, their motives are bad. At the moment, Hillary is saying so. She may be right. But my view is that too much emphasis is put on motivation. unless you truly have the other fellow's mind you don't really know what his motivation is it could be a life experience that creates that it could be a gene have the other fellow's mind you don't really know what his motivation is it could be a life experience that creates that it could be a gene that they have so I'd rather see the results then is it going to be good or is it going to be bad if this happens?
And not what makes them do it. I'd like to know what makes the right thing and if I could find that the fellow who finds the motivation pill that'll be the greatest pill of all. My question is really as to were they fearful and did they not support equality in these forms cause of that was part of their attitude? Do you carry on what's the point? What, I think that certainly that could well have been part of it. You know, I'm a Jew by religion only, say, because if I'm in the oil business and all These guys are against, because the Arabs want to control the oil and so forth, and if I say something, they're not going to like me or hurt the business, and I caused it and so forth.
I'm sure that some people would worry about that. But what individually motivates someone, some people who when their parents were born in the old country and they had an accent, say, they're embarrassed because they don't talk good English or something or the other. Others, this is what your accent is to be a come from there. What's the what? So then did all of the Jewish groups support integration in Christ? No I could name names but I don want to do that in this place And all across the line from orthodox to reform There was a certain rabbi here not of the reform background that we used to have discussions and to him everything had to be a positive Jewish thing or you couldn't do it at all.
And I says, do you think there could be something that's right because it's right without a label on it? It don't have to be Jewish or Christian or Muslim or so on. Just the right thing to do, and it should be supported for that reason. So, if you were to get asked about the immigration of the Jewish people, I think, would you get anything against him? This particular guy that I'm talking about, if he were a good Jew, I think he would have to come up with a whole moral sum of it. But this particular individual, I'm worried about Jews. I'm worried about that. I didn't want to concern you, but I believe it was what you're saying.
See, Rabbi Olin, when Martin Luther King was killed, we had a march through downtown Dallas to the Dealey Plaza, and Rabbi Olin gave the talk and so on, and some of those people lining up along there wasn't looking too friendly. Tell us about that. Well that just what happened Jerry and I happened to be on that march the Vogels others in our group Was there any healthy Jewish presence in that march I'd say modest. Could have been greater, should have been greater. Would you elaborate a little bit about when this happened? One thing I do also remember at that time, they held a mass at the cathedral down on Ross Avenue, and Rabbi Klein was invited.
Oh, they may have been out of town, whatever. And they said it was the first time a non-Catholic had been wherever you stand behind there. I was proud that our rabbi was up as I sat in the audience, Gary and I. What was the incidents that created or set up Matt's reason for his email? Oh, this is when Martin Luther King killed. It was either that or Kennedy. I can't remember which. But anyway, our rabbi got to be what hadn't been before. I felt good about it. Well, it would be 63 if it were Kennedy. There's so many in 51 years you always think of them after you finish the tape.
Well it been thrilling to see a community that when I came it was 2 Jewish people I'm going to guess it's closer to 50,000 now. It's marvelous to see what was three or four at the most synagogues to be 40-some-odd. It could be now. And every phase of Judaism from the strictest Orthodox, stricter than the most Orthodox were in my day, and I'm sure they're humanists, and we even got Buddhist Jews. We got everything. And everything that is good adds to the richness of the stew. And I like all things that end up helping society to have an opportunity to prove themselves. and I'll end up on this note if one had a free choice the Lord said in my universe and of time when would you choose to live and where would you choose to live I don't think I could think of a better time and a better place coming together for the beers, and from 1918 when I was born to now, time-wise, in Dallas, Texas, in the last 51 years that we've lived here.