Celia Rips
Celia was born in Chicago, Illinois. After her mother, Mary (Miriam), died when Celia was about five, and following the death of her only brother, she was cared for by her aunt, Tante Libby, who ran a candy store and later married Celia's father, Charles Tickton. Libby brought three older children into the family, and Celia grew up in a loving home with brothers and sisters, eventually calling her stepmother Mama. Her father owned a ready-to-wear clothing store, served as a synagogue president for many years, and, as Celia recalled, was an early advocate of Conservative Judaism. Celia attended Chicago schools including Englewood High School and graduated from the Sherwood Music School, later earning a diploma from the Chicago Conservatory in voice and piano.
Celia met her husband, Sam, while singing at a friend's wedding, and he proposed within days. Sam had been widowed and had a young son, whom Celia lovingly agreed to raise. Their life together was marked by dramatic hardship, including their building being burned down by the Ku Klux Klan just three months after their marriage, and violence they witnessed during their years in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where they lived about twelve years. Sam worked in the oil business, and after a partnership in Dallas ended badly and a promising well went dry, the family was left broke. Celia and Sam rebuilt by pawning her diamond ring to open a grocery store, later running a cafe and other ventures, and she returned to teaching music during the hardest times.
In Dallas, Celia and Sam eventually acquired property and Sam retired before his death about four years before the interview. Their daughter, Mary Ann, became an accomplished artist, and their son worked as a flight engineer for American Airlines. Celia held memberships at Shearith Israel and later at Temple Shalom, following her family, and had earlier attended Temple Emanu-El. A devoted believer in prayer, she recited the Twenty-third Psalm and the Shema daily and credited her faith with sustaining her through pernicious anemia and the loss of her stepson, who died in her arms at age twelve after living with an inoperable brain tumor she carried knowledge of alone for years. Active in the Democratic Club and the Dallas Jewish senior center, she played piano, sang solos, belonged to the drama group, and looked forward to moving to a senior apartment. She was approaching her 84th birthday, grateful for every added year.
Full Transcript
I'm sitting here this morning with my very good friend, Seal Rips, and this morning we're going to go a little bit into the past, bring it up to the present, and I am really looking forward to this interview very much. Good morning, Seal. Good morning. Seal, let's start at the beginning. Where were you born? I was born in Chicago, Illinois. Alright. How many children were in your family, Seal? Well, there were two, but one died, and I became an only child. All right. What did your parents do? What did your father do for a living? Well, he had a ready-to-wear store, silver, too, and clothing, ladies, men's clothing.
Once in a while on a Saturday I would come and help him. Very good. Were your family from Europe? Were your parents from Europe? Yes, they were all from Europe, but I had two mothers. My mother died when I was about five years old. My brother had died just six months before that, one year. And my father, he needed a wife, and he became engaged to a woman. And I don't know, maybe this isn't in order, but I didn't like that woman. I was just going to ask that. Did you like his stepmother? And he was going to take me down to see her again.
And I said, I'm not going to go. I don't want her for a mother. I'm going back to Tante Libby. and that was my mother's sister did she take you in after your mother died? wait a minute and so I just won't go and I got a little angry and I stomped my feet and I said I'm going to run away I don't like her and my second mother Libby my first mother's name was Mary Miriam really Right. Let me see if I have to talk a story. My second mother was seven years older than my father and she had been widowed for quite a number of years She had a little candy store And after my mother died I stayed at her place The rooms were upstairs and she had this candy store downstairs.
And finally, my father proposed to her and married her. So you had something to do with it. Yes. All right, just a minute. What do you remember about your childhood, years growing up, with your stepmother? I have to explain that she had three children. She had a son who was the youngest and two daughters. The oldest one was a school teacher. And the other one was a stenographer. And my brother, he studied and was a dentist eventually. So you had brothers and sisters then? I had brothers and sisters then. And this, and I was very happy. I used to call her Tonta Libby. That's nice.
I didn't call her mother. So one day she sat me on her lap, and it was a couple of months after. She said to me, it's time for you to call me Mama. Oh, isn't that? So I started calling her Mama instead of then Tonta Libby. All right, so that you did not really have a deprived childhood. No. You had a childhood of loving brothers and sisters. Yes, and they were much older than I. What about financially, the family, as you were growing up? Well, it was about the same as it was before. And I don't remember my first mother too well. Incidents, just little incidents.
Right, when you were too young. Yes, and my brother the same way. I remember him taking me in a sled, And I didn't remember him too well. He was a year older than I was. What school did you go to, and how high did you go in your school? Well, the first school was the Beals School. You know, I've forgotten the name of the second one. Well, that doesn't matter, but they were in Chicago. Yes, and then I went to Englewood High School. They called it Englewood High School. That's as far as I went in school. But I did go to music school, and I graduated from the Sherwood Music School.
In voice and piano? In voice and piano And then after that I got a I went to the Chicago Conservatory for my diploma And I taught music, I taught both singing and piano. What do you remember about your sort of later teenage years when you were dating or going out or were you involved in any Jewish youth groups or any Jewish activity? Yes. You know, my father, I forgot to say, my father was the president of the synagogue for years and years and years. I think if he'd still have lived he would have, and he was very, very educated. What synagogue was that? Orthodox, conservative, reformed?
It was orthodox to start with, and he made it conservative. He was the man that started conservatism. That's interesting. He said they could sit together whoever wanted to, and whoever didn't, they could be separated. But he was the first man in America that started conservatism. What was your father's name? Charles Tickton, T-I-C-K-T-I-N. That's interesting that he had the foresight to see what most of the modern Jews would want. That's right. That's right. All right. So how did you then, what did you do, how did the Jewish kids get together? Well, we used to play together, and we used to have little get-togethers in the shul, and various things like that.
Later on I became a Hadassah member when I was a little older, you know, the young Hadassah. Junior Hadassah. Junior Hadassah. Right. Were you in Young Judeans when you were younger? No, no. Just Young Judeans. How did you meet your husband then? Well, there's a long, it's got such a long tail. I think my life is very queer. No, it's not. Yes, it is. Everyone's life is different. Well, I'll tell you, my brother and I, I called him my brother, George. He had a different name. It was Mansovich, related to the Winsley Company. And we used to like we had as I got older we used to have those big dances once I think it was once a month And we loved to dance together so we danced around and danced around and had the best time of the world Well, my girlfriend's mother wanted my brother for her daughter to marry.
And she went around and told everybody, because he didn't ever date her, that I was in love with my brother. So it got to my mother's ears, and she said, I heard some things, and I want to know if they're true. Are you and George in love with each other? I said, I just as soon married my father. And meanwhile, I was going sort of steady with a friend of my brother's, and he knew all about this. I went with him for about two years, and he never proposed to me because he was such a good friend of my brother's that he thought that maybe the rumor was true, so he never proposed to me.
Well, I met Sam, I was singing at a friend's wedding, and a friend of ours was there, and he brought Sam in. I'd never met Sam before. So we were introduced, and I guess he felt for me immediately, How could I fall in love that fast? But I think I told you the story about the boy, the little boy, if you remember. Oh, he had a little boy. He had a little boy. He had been married before. Yes, she died when she was 25 in 1918. And so then he didn't propose to me right away. He says, I'd like to come over to see you and go out.
So we went, and the minute, practically, that we got into the house, he proposed to me. After four days. Oh, my goodness. So I said, no, no, that's too soon. But he says, I have a little boy, and he has no mother. Oh, I said, I'd love to raise him. We're just like that. And that was it. Good for you. Good for you. And we had ups and downs. I said we had heaven and hell. We went through various things three months after we were married. and the Ku Klux Klan burned down our building. They used to reuse the oil well pipe, and there were thousands and thousands of dollars We're in those machines.
This was three months after you married? Three months after I married. And the Ku Klux's were very strong, but I mean strong. And my husband looked out the window and he said, You know something, our place is burning and I have no riot insurance. And we just wiped out. So what did you do after that? Well, he got into something else, and I don't remember. He liked the oil business, and it was very hard on him at first. But we had up and we had down. And then, let's see, oh yes, the Ku Klux were after the colored people too. That was the Jews and the colored people.
And he took his brothers, at that time they didn't have any trucks. They had those big wagons and horses. He says, my God, all my lovely horses are in there. And he took his brothers. He was one of eight brothers and one sister. And he says, we're going down and get those horses out. They could have been killed. And he said, the colored people that were lying dead all over the place there. Well, we went to a show one night. And all of a sudden, the manager came in and he said, you better run out and then we heard shots and two of the drummers were killed they were the colored people who had stolen the the guns and things from the armory and they were going down the street that we had across in order to get home so Sam says well we'll just have to wait a minute but we went out and then there was about a blocks the cars were coming one after the other He says, if we run real fast, I think we can get into our parents.
That's what we do. You had an exciting life. It's like a lobster movie. Yes. Watching these things. So you had this one son that your husband had when you married. Did you have any children together? Yes, my daughter, Mary Ann. She is now 56, I think. And she a very fine artist Does she live here in Dallas Yes yes she pains And she graduated from college and she taking her master now Slowly, she said it might take her a couple of years, but she wants to take it. Alright. And she's a wonderful child. I call her my child, and I have two granddaughters. Neither of them married.
One lives in Phoenix. And she never wanted to go to high school, but she's wonderful in business. She's next to the top in selecting furniture. She goes down and selects the furniture for the people to see. And the other one graduated from college, and she's also an artist. And beside that, she works for Penny and Company, but she's on her own. She can work whenever she wants to. And she assembles those different pictures that they put in the little pamphlets, you know, stuff. She's in advertising. In the advertising. All right, let's turn the clock back a little. We've jumped to your daughter. When did your daughter appear in your lives?
When was she born and what stage of life were you at then? She wasn't at what she was. All right, I guess 56 years ago, if she's 56 years old. And you were still in Chicago? Oh, no. We had moved from... I went to Tulsa, Oklahoma. That's where the riots were in Tulsa, Oklahoma. All right, so you lived with Tulsa. In Tulsa was that? Twelve years. Right. And then where did you... Why did you leave Tulsa? Well, he had an offer of a partnership with a man in Dallas, which turned out very poorly. What kind of a business was that? Still in the oil. Uh-huh.
and then things got so some of his partners just ruined us they had five lawyers and they just ruined us we had a well that was very very good my husband they offered 85,000 for yes 85,000 and the partner said that he wouldn let it go They had to give him a million dollars So then the well went dry Oh why And we had nothing to do, so I told my husband that I was going to Chicago with Mary Ann, and I went to see what I could do over there for a while. He was flat broke. Then it was about six months that we were separated from each other, and my father got a little bit worried.
Worried. And he said, well, this can't go on like that. Either you're married or you're not married. He says, if you're not married, get a divorce. And so when he called, I told him, I said, you're going to have to get rid of some of the partners. had other partners were gypping him and I told him if he doesn't come soon he didn't have even enough money to really come home so he slept in the car one of the time and he never did stop he slept in the car didn't have money for a hotel and he came and he promised me that he would do that and then I said well we don't have any money I had this, I said, I'll tell you what, let's go back and see how much you can get for that.
For your diamond ring? Yeah, I didn't sell it. Right. Yeah, the whole thing. So that's what he did, and he got a grocery store. You got a loan on your diamond ring and set up a grocery store. Isn't that interesting? I never had done that kind of work before. I didn't even know how to use the register. He went out the first day and he forgot to show me how to use the register. And I was scared half pink because I didn't know how to do it. So what did you do when you made sales? Well, finally, I, and I think one of the men that came in knew how to do it.
So it was quite a, and I worked very hard. And then I also worked hard. and we changed and bought a cafe. And I worked in that, and I worked in the third one. And that was it until he bought some property, and he retired, and he had a nice amount from the, but the places were very old And finally they were told that they had to be demolished And in order to keep them up see it would have cost us So, he, no, I think, I forgot, my children took it over after he passed away in the interim. And that is it, I made a mistake.
and my son and daughter took over the getting the rent and doing all that and that's when they condemned it and so they came to me they said mother and so I told him I said it isn't worth $30,000 and so that is it when did he pass away how many years have you been a widow it's almost Four years. Four years. All right. And you were in Dallas then? Mm-hmm. The businesses were in Dallas? Yes. Okay. And your daughter and your son are here? Yes. My son and I is a flight engineer for American Airlines, and this is his 31st year. As a pilot?
Not a pilot. He's a flight. They don't have flight engineers anymore. All those that, when they retire, they... Oh, they don't rehire them. I see. Noticing that they don't rehire. I mean, they've done away with that position. Yes, the pilot and co-pilot have to know just exactly what the flight engineer had done. Do you have any funny anecdotes that you can recall from your life with the kids? Did you used to go on vacations or take trips? I guess you really couldn't. You were always down and up. You were always trying to come back from being down. Yes. Well, I can tell you a funny incident with my sister, I call her, she was the younger one.
I always had to help with the dishes. So mother of a show, I called her mother, mother had two sets of dishes exactly alike. The Passover ones were in the basement and I was always rushing somewhere. And I ran and I knocked all of the dishes off of Lee and they broke. So my sister Esther said, I got an idea. Let's go down to the basement and get the other one. Mother will never know until you tell her. It was about six or seven months from Pesach. She says, then it won't go so hard on us. And that's just what you did. You were a couple of Bundit and that's what you were.
Right. That's interesting. Tell me something that I wonder about. I know that you're talented and you taught music and you taught singing. Yes. In the times when you were down and out, when your husband lost several businesses, did you go back to that to make a good? Oh yes, yes, I did. So that you have always kept that up and you've always been able to make... While I was in the working hard, I couldn't do it. But in the interims, I did. And then when the trouble, I want to tell the right word, we lost everything then. And I went back to teaching, but on a very low scale.
They just didn't have money. I guess in the Depression days, people didn't have money. They didn't have money. All right. So you've been widowed four years now. Prior to being widowed, did you and your husband used to come to the center, to the senior group together? Oh, yes, yes. All right. When did the senior group enter your lives? Here? I think it was, I don't remember, I think I've been here about ten or twelve years. It was organized much longer than that. Right. I think a Mr. and Mrs. Cass organized it. Have you seen any great changes, seeing as you're one of the veterans around here in the senior group?
Yes. Well, it is so much greater than it was that you can't really compare them. We were just about sixty people to start with, and the Jews was only a dollar. And, yes, we could win on trips, and we had our little plays, and I played the piano then, too. You were the official piano player. I was. Right, and seniors. Well, you are very involved now. You're very much into what things now with seniors? Well, I'm not too much involved. I just played the piano. I belong to the drama group and I sing solos. But right now I'm interested in Bayer Center because I have a bid for one of the apartments there How long do you think it be before before you I don know I think it going to take a long time because I want a kitchen at one apartment I want to take it a little easier.
But they do have a thing that's very nice. If you pay a dollar a year, you can come there and be into all the activities there. But how do you get there? They have a woman that it's a dollar and a half for both ways, and you pay once a month, and she comes and gets you and brings you back. Well, that's nice, so that you can be involved there as well as here. Right, right. But do you belong to the Senior Social Club here? Yes, yes, I'm a member of that, too. Right. The Evening Club, yes. There's lots going on here. Yes, there is.
Seal, today America has a new president, aren't you? Yes. A prisoner like Ronald Reagan. Oh, my. What have been your... have you ever been involved in politics? Yes, I used to belong to the Democratic Club. Yes. Where was that? Here. Here. Here, uh-huh. And very active. My daughter belonged to her, too, and we were very active. What about your synagogue affiliation here in Dallas? Well, I have two, really. I used to belong to Sheth Israel. And then the children decided they wanted to go to the temple. And we were at the temple for a long time. when that was Temple Emanuel, Temple Shalom was just being built, and Mary Ann thought, well, she'd like to transfer to Temple Shalom.
But the trouble was, if the high holidays came, they wouldn't allow the family to go into the regular... Big synagogue. Yeah, big synagogue. But they put them in a different room and let them hear it with a microphone. And Mary Ann said, I'm not going to do that. She said, I'm going to get you a senior membership at Temple Shalom. So I've got a membership at both of them now. So you belong at Temple Shalom? Yes, I'm a senior citizen. Your daughter belongs there at Temple Shalom? Yes. I'm very active. She's very active. And you are also a member of Sherath Israel? No No I forgot I gave it up Well I sometimes feel that synagogues can get very large and impersonal Perhaps you enjoy...
Well I like the synagogue too, but being that they were there I figured well if they're going to be there I'm going to be the other place. I think it's nice for children and parents to be there. What kind of a home did you always have? A very traditionally Jewish home? Yes, at one time I had a very Jewish home, very Jewish. Then I got, my boy had, I'll show them, got a diphtheria and I caught it from him. He used to sit on my lap and I never told anybody. I got a terrible sore throat. And then they gave me too much antitoxin. But after that I got pernicious anemia.
And I was strictly kosher, absolutely. I was kosher as a girl. I mean I never had eaten trape out at all, never. And so we went broke again of course. And I told the butcher, I said, I'd like to have some liver. The doctor wants me to have liver. I was supposed to eat it, just sear it on each side and raw in the middle. And he looked at me and he says, I heard you lost all your money, you know. This is for my rich customers. I says, can't I buy any? He says, no. Well, I walked out and I said, you are going to have the sin, not me.
And I went to the Gentile butcher shop. And I bought it. And I didn't keep it. I mean it. Right. You couldn't even eat it. I couldn't eat it. No. And then I got to myself and I said, you've got to eat it. That's your medicine. You must eat it. And so that's what happened. Isn't that a shame that the kosher butcher did not have the feeling that he should have had for a fellow Jew? Yeah. Now, Seal, I know that when we have had Roots discussions. You are a big believer, I know, in prayer. Oh, very much. Yes, yes, yes. I'm very, very much.
I mean you tell me every morning and every evening Oh yes I say the Lord is my shepherd and then I also say what is it The Shema. The Shema, yeah. Every night especially. And I always thank God I'm going to be 84 in February, and I always say thank God for giving me these added years because I wasn't expected to live many, many, many times because of this pernicious need. And I thank God every time and he's never out of my mind. That's wonderful that you have this faith that you carry with you all the time. I remember once telling me that you always kiss the mezuzah when you go into your home and come out of your home.
The only thing is I put my mezuzah inside. And the rabbi said I could do that because too many people were trying to make a Christian out of me. Oh, yes, they saw that you were a good customer for Bloodbund. That's interesting. And that's why it bothered me. I didn't want to stand there and talk to them and tell them that I don't want to be. So instead of that, I just keep it on the door on the inside. Well, can I hoard it for 84? You look wonderful and you feel fairly good. You're very active. Yes, I'm pretty good. I walk a great deal.
I exercise. I have exercises for the sunymen. What do you do every day? Do you have an exercise program? Myself. Yes, I exercise my legs. What do you do? This leg was paralyzed for quite a number of years. And I walked on it with a cane for a long time. And you've overcome that? Well, I've overcome it by a sort of, I think it's suggestive psychiatry. Good for you. Yes. I went to this man, and he says, I'm not going to hypnotize you. I'm just going to come to your house, and I'm going to tell you to go somewhere where you haven't been. I wouldn't even go to the corner drugstore.
But you were afraid to go out? Oh, yes. I was scared. I was afraid to go into a street car. I was afraid to go anywhere. Why? Right, because you were afraid you would fall? I just got to the point where I hadn't walked and been out enough. I was afraid. All right. So what did he do? This is interesting. Well, I became one. The evening, and he says, come on outside, and it was a nice, warm, you know, nice evening. And he said, I want you to go down to that drugstore. Have you been there lately? I said, no. I said, I don't go, I'm afraid.
So he says, you are going to that drugstore there, and you are going to buy something. I don't care what you buy, and you come back and bring it to me. And that's what happened. I did. Then he said, now remember tomorrow morning we live downtown and you take the train to downtown and you go over to Carson Peary, Scott and Company, you've got a little daughter and buy her two dresses. When you get through you come and show me those dresses at the office. And if you think I didn't, I did. And that's the way he got you, by doing just a little bit each time.
Suggestive psychiatry. Suggestive psychiatry. Isn't that amazing? Isn't that amazing? And obviously has done wonders for you. You come and you go and you do. And you're into so many things. Lucille, your life has been like a roller coaster. As you said, you had many ups and many downs. And now you're on an up, because things are well and you feel well. I told you, did I tell you about the boy dying? No. Oh, is it hard to tell? Of course we want all the experiences in your life When I married Sam I noticed that his son was so bright one day sometime and then the next day he just seemed to be sort of dreaming.
And I thought to myself, well, I'm going to take him to Chicago. There was a very fine pediatrician there, Dr. Apt, who's known all over the world. and I took him there and examined him everything was examined, x-rays and things. And he says, I hate to tell you this, but this body has a tumor on his brain which is inoperable and he can die at any minute, just like that. Well, you know how I felt. I was staying with the folks. I didn't tell them. I came home. I didn't tell my husband. The only one for eight years that knew it was just me. How could you carry that?
Well, I don't know. I guess it was my strength. And like you say, I believe in God so well. And I just, my daughter didn't know until three years ago. I didn't tell her. That's amazing. And you kept that within yourself? In myself. And he came home from a crater, and he said, Mother, somebody hit me in the head. I looked at his head. There wasn't anything there. and then all of a sudden he started to stagger and he says I don feel good and I want to go to bed He was 12 12 and he would have been in my misfit for three months So I put him in bed and I took a chair and sat down beside him.
He says, Mother, I think I'm dying. And I said, oh no. He says, can I sit in your lap? And I sat in my lap and he died in my lap. And that's the story. So you don't have really just the one daughter. Yes, but she was a half their half. Right, right. She was a half-sister to him. Well, Celia, if you had to give advice on your philosophy on life to anyone, for example, you have these two granddaughters, one in Phoenix, you said, or... Yes, I'm anxious for them to get married. I have granddaughters. All right, so if your granddaughters get married and even have grandchildren, and one day they come here to Dallas to the center and they go into the archives and they see recorded tapes of seniors in their lives and somebody says, oh, there's my grandma, our great-grandma Celia Ripps.
Yeah. What would you like to say to these children or grandchildren about philosophy in life or how to live or what advice could you give them on what you think is the right way to live or to be as a human being You certainly have had a lot of experience Well I say you have to take the bitter and the sweet Absolutely And if you can't take that, then it just isn't good. You have to, you have to take it. And if you can't take it, it's... Right, the bitter makes a stronger person out of you. I guess so. All right. And I'm sure that you would want to tell them to continue your strong faith.
Yes, yes. They're very faithful, too. And they got their diplomas for... And they were... Bat Mitzvahs? Or confirmed? Confirmed. Right, right. I'm sure that they will carry on in the Jewish tradition. And then they have the strength. And the stamina their grandmother did. They'll be all right in the world. And we have great love together. I mean, I get such beautiful letters from them, just full of love. That's wonderful. And it makes my heart so happy. Well, you're a wonderful person, and you radiate this love that you feel within you to everyone around you. Seal, thank you very much for spending this hour with me.
Oh, it's a pleasure to do it for you.