David Epstein
David Epstein was born in 1957 at the Florence Nightingale Maternity Hospital, then part of Baylor Medical Center, where his brother and sister were also born. The family lived in far East Dallas, near the streets of Oats and Ferguson, close enough to walk two blocks into Mesquite. His father was born in Dallas and was raised in South Dallas, which was once the city's Jewish neighborhood near Fair Park. His grandfather had immigrated through Ellis Island as a boy, traveling from New York to Chicago and then to Oklahoma before coming to Dallas after his own father died. The family later owned or ran a scrap business, and a large family tree hanging on David's wall traces many generations of rabbis.
David's mother came from New York to visit cousins and decided to stay, preferring the open spaces of Dallas. His father spent his adult life in the jewelry business, owning his own store before serving in the army during the Korean War and later working for several local jewelers. Growing up, the Epsteins were one of only about four Jewish families in their East Dallas neighborhood, and they kept a low profile in an era when it felt safer to blend in. David and his brother once made the long weekly drive to Temple Emanu-El for Boy Scout meetings, which was much of their organized Jewish life as children. The family moved to Richardson when David was in tenth grade.
David lived his whole life in the Dallas area, attending junior college and then UT Dallas while living at home and working. He met his wife, who had moved to Dallas from Chicago and California, while in college. Over the years he worked in the shoe business, sold tools, and spent more than two decades in market research running a call center, before starting his own home repair business. He and his family observe Jewish life culturally, marking Passover and the holidays and visiting the family plots on Dolphin Road, where some thirty relatives are buried. David reflected on how much Dallas has changed over his lifetime and on his mother's saying that every Jew in Dallas knew every other Jew in Dallas.
Full Transcript
today is May 24 2018 my name is Holly cone and I'm here with David Epstein to discuss his background in growing up in Dallas so David if you could tell me a little bit about where you were born and about your family background in connection to Dallas okay I was born in a section of Baylor Medical Center that was called Florence Nightingale Maternity Hospital back in 1957 which is where my brother was born and my sister was born but it was not called actually Baylor at that time it was Florence Nightingale which is I guess we were living in East Dallas at that time when
I turn these Dallas most people think of East Dallas as being White Rock I was further south and further east from where we lived you could walk two blocks and be in Mesquite so I mean when I say East that's about as far east as you can go might be called kasib you by some people if you familiar with any of the streets out there oats and Ferguson oats drive in Ferguson Road which is kind of funny because Ferguson Road south of oats went down to highway 30 and that was what we used to call them when we were kids as Church row because every
single Church was represented between Fergus seven-thirty of course there was no synagogue close to synagogue I think the temple Emmanuel at that time and at that time from where we lived that was a good 45 minute drive because most of the roads were two-lane major Northwest Highway it was like a two-lane road and it took forever to travel about it so that's where I grew up okay I think I was there until we were there until I was in the tenth grade and then we moved to Richardson okay big mover okay uh-huh so there's no warning temples close to her sure so I mean like
I said we didn't really grow up in the Jewish community sometimes when we were me and my brother were I don't know he's two years older than me we must have been in about 7th to 8th grade and my dad came home one day and said you're joining the Boy Scouts at temple Emmanuel good luck oh so once a week we drove all the way 45 minutes to go to temple Emmanuel to attend Boy Scout meetings and play with all these Jewish kids and then go home and never see him that was pretty much you know my Jewish life everything else was you know either
Baptist Christian or some Catholics something or other I mean we we didn't have I think I told you on the phone we had maybe four Jewish families in the neighborhood and one was us and my grandparents lived two blocks away okay so that took a path did they settle in that area is that why you know my grandparents used to live in South Dallas I don't remember the name of the street but that's where my dad was raised back when South Dallas was the Jewish neighborhood down off of forst forst Avenue down in that neighborhood Fair Park that was you know the Jewish neighborhood in
fact it was kind of funny a little Segway when my mother died we were burying her at the cemetery on dolphin Road and some friends of mine came to pay their respects and on the drive over he pulled me aside and he goes why did y'all put your cemetery in this black neighborhood and I had to explain to him that it was not a black neighborhood a hundred years ago well we all got a chuckle out of that so but my parents bought a house in East Dallas and when my grandparents decided they no longer where I had to live where they were living they
bought a house a couple blocks away okay so that's how we ended up in that neighborhood okay and how did your family originally come to Dallas well let's see my mother came down here for a visit to visit some cousins and decided she liked to freedom and the wide open spaces of Dallas as opposed to New York and decided not to go home my dad was born here his dad came over from I believe the paperwork that I read said that he listed his home as in I want to say it's loads or lows mm-hmm but that's not worry I mean he caught a boat
I don't remember where he caught a boat Ellis Island okay and I want to say it was like 1907 and at that time I actually have a piece of paper that I found I don't know how I did it showing his name and everything on the docket for the boat listed he was 18 years old at the time okay but reality is he was only 13 came here along with no money no job no I mean I don't even know if he knew where his family was he landed and she went from New York to Chicago and then from Chicago he went to some sex
in Oklahoma I don't remember the town that when his father died who had been here okay that's what brought him to Dallas is when his father died I think either his father either owned or Ram a company called Lone Star Steel it was like a junkyard okay so and my grandfather tipped that over and ran that for however long it existed no we've been here a while okay is that what your father did also no my father was a jeweler he was in the jewelry business he he owned his own store for a while and then the government came knocking and said we think you
need to go to war so he had to close a store and he went to the army and that was the only time he really left Texas it's been the armies that go here goes there and then they put him in plain and shoved him out over Korea so but when he got out he came right back to Dallas okay was a jewelry for his all all of his adult life he sold he worked for Gordon as he worked for sales he worked for a company called ace jewelers which later morphed into a company called Adams teens anybody's familiar with that but they were a
local big company I think urban idols team is still operating jewelry business somewhere but I won't swear to that okay but he retired from the jewelry business okay and is he still living yes he is he's about to turn 90 oh okay very now yeah it's birthday's in June okay so that's why I said you should really talk to him he has okay he can tell you about when temple Emmanuel used to be on the south side of I think it's called founders Park down in South Dallas okay he told me that the reason they moved is because the building was sinking down so they
had to sell it and move and he told me about being a little kid and going to Sunday sort of Saturday school Sunday school going to classes and you know the kids were either downstairs and the men were upstairs or vice versa I remember how it went I mean you know it's there was separation so he was involved in the congregation until you move further away from um he was involved until probably his late teens I would say mail it later mm-hmm I don't know whether this is true or not but I have a feeling he was supposed to be a rabbi they we have
a family tree hanging on the wall that's three feet by two feet I may be bigger and the only word that I can get anybody to translate on that is Lord rabbi and there's at least 30 of them on there in the family background the family tree is sold I mean my grandfather had I think nine brothers and sisters of which I've not met any of them okay and none of them are on the family tree so you know and it starts with somebody read a rabbi's name on it who wrote some kind of book that everybody uses for teaching in Hebrew school and apparently
they're still using that book okay so then they told me that at the very top you know where you'd have a normal family treat you'd have the mother and the father they would come down and it's actually two brothers and it's the two sides of the family from the brothers and somebody said that they were like the Supreme Court of rabbis I don't know what this means [Music] because I can't get it translated so I mean I've tried and nobody seems to apparently the guy that wrote this thing wrote and spoke like three different languages and he kind of jammed the words together oh so
I'm not huh I mean that I've had several rabbis look at it and I had several scholars look at it and like I said the only word that everybody is easily picked out is a rabbi and like I said it's on their up 30 times uh-huh at least so so did you use to do things at home if you weren't part of a congregation you know the neighborhood that we grew up in not really I mean you know we would have like Seder dinners you know on the holidays we never decorated the house growing up in the you know late 50s and early 60s in
East Dallas you didn't advertise you or anything other than a wasp you know you blended statement it sounds really bad to say this you know the KKK was still relevant and as anybody probably knows that when they get finished with the blacks you know the Jews are next and so we didn't advertise we just we were just poor white people that never decorated for Christmas and didn't go to church and you know nobody knew did anyone know it's school or all so you just kind of blend well we blended for quite a while until I'm gonna say my brother was in the seventh grade which
would have put all three of us in the same school and something came up and all of a sudden they knew that we were Jewish and they wanted us on the Jewish holidays to come down to the office and over the PA system explain to people what this holiday was and what it was all about you know again trying to blend you really didn't didn't want to do that you know you didn't want to be different right so what did you tell them when they asked you to do that no thank you okay you did not want to stick out over there and today are
you involved in any kind of activity in the Jewish community not really we were going to join a synagogue back when our kids were small but my daughter seemed to think that the only reason to have a bat mitzvah was to get all the presents and have a big party not the religious part of it and we kept telling her that if she wasn't going to be into the religious part we weren't going to go through with it and so we never joined and then my son was coming of age and we were going to join for him because he was really into it but
he passed away say we never did you know it's I mean we you know we do the you know the Passover dinners and you know the holidays then we go to the cemetery when everybody goes to the cemetery and do all the you know but I mean it's that's about the extent of it I mean we're Jewish by birth mm-hmm we're not it's not that we're not proud of it it's just that we're not that involved in it so would you say it's more culturally a part of who you are yeah that would be a good way to describe it because you know like I
said it's you know we showed that synagogue Oh even my mother-in-law who grew up probably attending synagogue every week only goes on the High Holidays now so you know life is it's uh you know you make certain choices and our choice with us to to just not attend sure what other things can you tell me about what it's like being in living in the Dallas area Dallas has changed a whole lot over the last 50 years I mean I remember when you know the Dallas Cowboys used to play at the Cotton Bowl you know I remember when it was affordable to go to a football
shape I even remember when they built LBJ to the freeway a lot of people don't understand that basically it was to connect Town East Mall to Valley View Mall and when they first built that those are the only two exits you could get on and you could get off and that was them until they started you know making other exits which made it a whole lot easier to get across town you know Dallas used to have a basketball team called the Dallas Chaparrals professional basketball they played the DES mu they could not sell tickets fill a life of them there used to be a barbecue
restaurant here in town that was called Fred's barbecue and during basketball season I don't know about what the owner had in common with the basketball team but they would give him a bunch of tickets and if you bought a po-boy sandwich they gave you a ticket to the game uh-huh so I'll meet a bunch of my friends and we would get some money together and we'd go back give up the sandwich get the ticket and then we jump on the bus and they played out at SMU mm-hmm and that's where we went to go watch professor basketball but Dallas didn't support them apparently the Cowboys
were the only thing they could support and they folded up and they moved today everybody knows now chef Burrell's is the San Antonio Spurs oh oh okay oh very good so what else okay now have you lived here all your life or have you you've lived all your life all my life did you go away for college or did you know I went to college I believe okay went to junior college and then I went to UT d okay okay stayed at home had no money uh-huh walk to school wrote of us finally bought a car it broke down every other week you know did
not grow up with money you know I learned a long time ago to be self-reliant because nobody was giving me anything uh-huh so anything and everything that I have is pretty much been worked for yeah is your wife also from the Dallas area no my wife is from I want to say originally Chicago and they moved to California then they moved back to Chicago possibly then they move back to California then they came her okay yeah so you met in Dallas yeah we were we were going to college okay I met in college okay I was not looking for a Jewish girl one I'm better
just turned out that way it just turned out that way okay yeah and in fact she is one of only three Jewish girls I ever dated you know when you grow up in a non-jewish neighbor but sooner additional cooler so that's quite a coincidence it was where your parents happy about that probably they didn't express any you know favoritism one way or the other and thus they were just happy with think they said they were happy with whoever I thought home okay so okay and you mentioned you have a brother and a sister of an older brother and a younger sister and do they live
in Dallas also well my sister does my brother is in the process of moving okay he's lived here most of his life you know come and go for a you know college and whatnot but he's moving to Denver not there very some little town in Colorado I don't know why I said Denver okay but it's not Denver okay yeah he's fact he's here to closing up this house okay well my sister still lives here okay she's as far as I know she's lived here I don't think she's moved anywhere you know she went to college really well she went to college she Houston okay and
then came back and then she went to college in commerce where she commuted so you know a lot of colleges in this area right right and have your other family members involved in the Jewish community some of my family is more involved in others I have cousins who are very heavily into sheriff Israel they've been here a long time I have other cousins that are here that I've never met okay my father was telling me one day a couple of years ago there was a mountain Carrollton there was a bunch of snakes got loose in an apartment complex and when they finally figured out who
owned the snakes uh-huh my father goes oh that's your cousin I've never met him uh-huh my father was never really big on keeping in touch I'm not sure he actually understands what a telephone is okay you know he could stand right next to a little ring and he just ignores it you know so he never really called any his family we have probably 30 relatives buried out off a dolphin Road many of them are from his mother's side of the family who I've met a couple of them a long time ago aha but I couldn't tell you today I'm pretty sure they still owned businesses
here at one time her family owned a laundry I think it was called Dallas Taylor and laundry I'm pretty sure that's what my dad told me okay but I mean other than that I can't you know I don't know them I mean I've got other cousins who were in the real estate business and they probably don't want their name mentioned yeah because if you hear it you'll recognize it okay so we won't talk about that but yeah I mean other than that not really okay and you said there were about five families that were in East Dallas do you know of the other families what
ended up happening to those one of the family was a friend of my mother's from New York who moved down here and moved into the neighborhood because my mother was there she's since moved to Austin to be with her daughter and passed away down there because kids the others moved out within a couple of years after moving in okay I haven't no idea what happened to them I've got no idea okay is there anything else that you'd like to share add about your story your background here in Dallas I really don't know what about my background would be that interesting other than for blackmail purpose
this is yeah I mean growing up in East Dallas I mean I'm not gonna say everybody was a troublemaker but there were enough of them and you know why I'm no angel never been arrested no I really don't I really don't know I mean you would have to ask me a specific question to elicit something out of me to be able to find out whether I've have something up here gonna be of interest I mean like I said you know my dad who grew up in South Dallas has seen so much change in this city or you know he he used to tell me that
yeah in the teenager he worked in a pawn shop down off of grand and he was telling me the names of the people who owned the pawn shops and they were all related to each other and the ones he worked for they were brothers and when he told me the name I thought that was funny because when I was in my early 20s I was doing retail in the shoe business and some of their relatives were my clients at the shoe store ok my mother used to tell me all the time that every Jew in Dallas knows every other Jew in Dallas and pretty much
I think that's true at least at that time not now but I mean oh I remember when when my wife when I were getting married and we rented our first apartment we went out to garland and we were in a mattress company buying the bed and I was talking to the old man that worked there and as we were walking around talking and we finally decided on my bed and so we sat down to do the paperwork and he was flowing out to pay for work and he's like okay what's your name and when I told him my last name he goes huh says you
know when I was in high school I dated a girl named Epstein and I said really what was her first name and he hollers across the store to his wife and she goes oh yeah her name was Dale well I was my dad's sister yeah so you know every Jew in Dallas must go yesterday Hey and so how your wife did she move here to go to college no I don't know why they actually move terribly they just ended up coming here I'm sure it was for business for her dad they they were here I guess they were material and she was in seventh grade
maybe eight she was she lived in the typical Jewish neighborhood you know she went to Franklin middle school and she went to Hillcrest High School and followed that path you know we we saw some of those people at the football games was that was as far as it went okay but yeah okay well what did you you said you worked in the shoe business yeah okay and is that what you continue to do or no I actually I left a shoe business and went to work for a tool company selling tools retail did that for a while then I I got hit by a car
got laid up for a while went into a business called called market research I don't know the only familiar with that worked for a company called Mark which was a large you know marketing research company and advertising agency and worked my way up the ladder for a little while and then left them went back and forth through school then I went to work for a splinter of the company they the two people two or three people broke off and started their own company and I for them after a while and often when I worked in market research for 20 years 25 years running a working
in and running the call center okay so work for some local people I'm pretty sure they were Jewish okay let's see then I left that and it didn't do anything for a while and then I went back into market research working for some different companies and then 9/11 hit I got laid off and then I got called back and then I got laid off and after that I said well you know it's time to go to work for yourself and so I started a for lack of a better term they'll call it a handyman company okay so home repair only fix-up yard maintenance you know
anything that had to do is fix in the house okay so let's and that's what I'm still doing it off and on well thank you for your time today I really appreciate it and for sharing your story hope I don't as I mentioned each story is unique and different and sharing your background is helpful to putting together what the tapestry of the Jewish community of Dallas is so thank you very much for your time you