Edna Flaxman
Edna Linzkahn Flaxman was born on June 14, 1918, in Dallas, at the home of her grandparents Simon and Becky Epstein Linz on South Boulevard and Irby Street, a grand yellow brick house built in the 1890s that later became a funeral home. Her mother came from the Linz family, who arrived in Texas from St. Louis. Her grandfather Simon Linz and his brothers founded Linz Brothers jewelers in 1877, building the seven-story Linz Building at Main and Martin in Dallas. Her father, Asher Kahn, was born in Gainesville, Texas, the son of Meyer Kahn, who had immigrated alone from Alsace-Lorraine at sixteen, and Sally Kahn of Macon, Georgia.
Edna grew up in South Dallas, attending John Henry Brown School, where she was elected May Queen, then Forest Avenue High School and Hockaday, from which three generations after her also graduated. She attended the University of Wisconsin, majoring in sociology and graduating magna cum laude in 1939. She worked as a social worker for the WPA in Paris, Texas, and later in Dallas, where she met Carl Flaxman, a social worker with a master's from the University of Chicago. They married in 1941. Carl was persuaded to join the family jewelry business and served as president of Linz until it was sold, though he remained deeply committed to social work and community service throughout his life.
The Flaxmans raised three daughters, Susie, Kathy, and Peggy, and were active members of Temple Emanu-El, where Carl served as president. Edna devoted herself to civic and Jewish causes, serving as president of the Dallas Girl Scout Council, the Women's Council, the Council of Jewish Women, and the Hockaday Alumni Association, among many others. She counted the establishment of a School of Social Work at UT Arlington and a social worker at the Dallas County Jail among her proudest accomplishments. She and Carl attended the Trade Mart luncheon on the day President Kennedy was assassinated. In 1988 she received the Hockaday Distinguished Alumni Award.
Full Transcript
This is Bernice Waldman on March 20th, 1989. I am interviewing Edna Lins-Kann Flaxman in her home at 6126 April Way in Dallas, Texas. This interview is part of the oral history project of the Greater Dallas Section of the National Council of Jewish Women. Edna, I really appreciate you letting me come today. Let's just start way at the beginning. Can you tell me where and when you were born? I was born June the 14th, 1918, here in Dallas. and my mother and father and I were living with my grandparents at the time at I think it was 2830 South Irving Street on the corner of South Boulevard and Irving and I was born at home in that house which is still there.
It is now the McGowan Funeral Home. I see. I think I remember that house very well. wasn't there some talk about it becoming a historical monument? They were talking about making it a historic landmark. Actually, it is much older than I think most, if not all, of the houses on South Boulevard and Park Row, which is a historic district now. It was built in the 1890s, and it's a great big yellow brick house. It had tennis courts. It had some stained glass windows, and it was really a beautiful home. It had a rose garden in the back with a pump in the middle, and my uncle, Clifton Lenz, who was a bachelor at the time, lived there part-time.
He was in the service when I was born because it was during World War I, But he lived there when he was in town, and he had chickens in the backyard. And there was also a two servant quarters there All of this is still standing So you were born in your grandparents house Now what was their name Their names were Simon Lenz and Becky Lenz, Becky Epstein Lenz. And they both were born in St. Louis. And my grandfather came to Texas in the 1870s. And do you want me to start telling you about Lindsbrough? Well, we'll get back to that in a minute. All right, that's fine.
Okay, so they came to Dallas from St. Louis. That's right. Okay, and your other grandparents? And my other grandparents, my father's parents were Sally Cann and Meyer Cann. And my grandfather Cann was born in Alsace-Lorraine when it was French. And when he was 16 years old, the Germans conquered Althas Lorraine, and he hated the Germans, and so he came to this country all by himself and settled in Gainesville, Texas. I don't know how he got there. Came directly to Gainesville? Well, I don't know where he landed, probably in Galveston or New Orleans. I really don't know. Okay. And went to Gainesville, Texas, and eventually he brought his whole family over.
And my grandmother, Ken, was born in Macon, Georgia. and her name incidentally was K-A-H-N but pronounced Kahn. Kahn is the German pronunciation and Kahn is the French pronunciation. Any relation? No, there was no relation and I don't know how they met. So you don't know how those two got together. No, I don't. My grandmother and grandfather Lynn, their parents were born in Germany and they came over I would guess in the mid-1840s or 1850s. That early. Do you have any idea from the family stories why they came? No, I really don't. And they met over here or in Germany? I am not sure whether my grandfather's parents, I think, were married in St.
Louis, but I'm not sure. Their names were Jeanette and Meyer Lenz. And I'm just really not sure whether they were married before or after they moved here. And they came from Linz, Germany, and my grandmother's parents came from Bavaria. Okay well let take one family at a time Let go back to the Linzes Alright We left them in St Louis Right Okay and you say your father your grandfather grew up there Yes, my grandfather grew up there, and he had four brothers. His older brother was named Joseph, and he, Simon, was the next oldest, and then Ben and Albert and Elias, and he also had three sisters.
and Joseph was a watchmaker and do you want me to tell how he came to Texas? Joseph was a watchmaker and he used to repair watches for train conductors and so he followed the KU Railroad down to Texas and settled in Denison and after he was there a short time he decided to go into the jewelry business and that is when he brought Simon down and then eventually the other brothers and if they they opened their first jewelry store I believe in Paris Texas and then they opened one in Sherman and then about 18 and their first store was opened in 1877 and they came to Dallas I think in 1890 and Lins Brothers was actually started in 1877 but moved to Dallas in 1890.
Okay, so it started in Paris. Well, I'm not sure whether they had a store in Denison or not. It was either Denison or Paris. Okay. And then Sherman and then Dallas. Okay, and where was that first store in Dallas located? I don't know where the first store was located, but in the 1890s, after they had begun to be successful, they built the Lenz Building, which was a seven-story brick building on the corner of Main and Martin Street. And this was built in the 1890s. I can't remember what year it opened. I think it opened in 1899. And it was a seven-story building, the tallest building west of the Mississippi.
Oh, really? Uh-huh. And it had a roof garden on top, and people used to go up to the top of the roof garden to see the site. And the jewelry store was on the first two floors and the other floors were office buildings. And what building is on that site now That where One Main Place now is Oh One Main Place One Main Place uh They eventually sold the building when they moved uptown They moved up to 1608 Main Street, which is next to Neiman. And when they did that, they sold the Lenz building, and it was demolished in later years. They sold it to Rio Grande Life Insurance Company.
I see. So how long were they in business next door to Neiman Marcus? Well, they were at that site until last year, 1988. But they expanded to Preston Center and our family sold the business. I don't remember what year it was, but when they sold the business, they owned the downtown store and the Preston Center store, and they sold the business to Gordon Jewelers of Houston. And after that, my husband, Carl Flaxman, stayed with the business, as did my brother and brother-in-law, and also Joseph Lenz. who's Joseph Lin's grandson of the founder. Okay, the third, I guess. Yes. Yeah, okay. And, well, he was the second because his father's name was Clarence.
Oh, okay. But anyhow, Lin's brothers then expanded to North Park, and they now have, I think, about eight or nine stores. But they did close the downtown store last year, and their headquarters is now Preston Center. They have stores in, I think, Fort Worth and San Antonio, possibly Alston now. Okay. Well, let's go back to that house on South Boulevard, and what was it? Irvey. Irvey. Do you remember anything about that house? How long did you and your parents live there? Well, we lived there until I was about six years old. Actually, my mother and father had, before I was born, they had been living in an apartment on Forest Avenue, which is now Martin Luther King Boulevard.
But the apartment didn't have steam heat, and my mother wasn't very happy about that, so we moved back to my grandparents' home. I stayed there until I was six years old. And I do remember the house, and I have visited it since then. And it was a very beautiful home with a lot of wood paneling and beamed ceilings and cut glass doors and windows. And I think there was leather, embossed leather on the walls in the dining room. It was a beautiful home. It must have been elegant. It was. Was that your grandparents' first home in Dallas? I don't know where they lived before that, but they built that house in the 1890s, so it couldn't have been their first home.
So they built it. They built the house themselves, and it was quite a large home, so I'm sure that it was not their first home. But I honestly don't know. They may have lived on Browder, either Ackerd or Browder, before that. grandparents on my father's side, when they moved to Dallas from Gainesville, they lived on Browder Street. Now I do know when the Lins Brothers first came to Dallas, I know that Ben and Albert were still bachelors at that time, and they lived on Jackson Street, which is downtown. Right. Now. And you say you have visited it since. When did you go there, and what was that like for you?
Well, I was on the Landmark, Dallas Landmark Committee at one time, and Louise Kahn was also on the committee, and she asked me to drive down South Boulevard with her and show her, tell her where everyone used to live because I knew so many people who lived on the street, and so we drove down South Boulevard, and I told her where a lot friends lived and then I told her about my grandparents house on Irby and South Boulevard and told her I would always had always wanted to go back and visit it and she said well why don't we right then right then okay so we went up and rang the bell and asked if Mr.
and Mrs. McGowan were there and Mrs. McGowan was there and I told her that I was that I had been born in the house and that my family was the Lenz family, and she was delighted to meet me and welcomed us in and showed us all around the house. There was a body in the dining room so I had seen enough at that point Well you said it was a funeral home It was a funeral home Right And there was a body in the dining room There was a body in the dining room So when she asked me if I wanted to go upstairs I said no I didn think so Well, were you afraid?
Well, I didn't want to see anymore. I'd seen enough. I can understand that. And then I went back again with one of my daughters, Peggy, just a year or so ago, because she wanted to see what it was like. Was there a body this time? No. No. I hope you warned her. Yes, I did. Okay. Now, were any of the other children in the family born in that house? Don't you have a sister? Yes, I have a sister and a brother. Oh, you also have a brother. Uh-huh. Okay. My sister is six and a half years younger than I am, and she was not born in that house.
In fact, it was at the time that my mother was pregnant that they built their own home. My mother and father built their own home on the corner of South Boulevard and Oakland, 2734 South Boulevard. And that house also is still there. It is in the historic district. It was a lovely home, but it doesn't look very good at the moment. And my sister was born there, and my brother was born in that house. We lived in that house for about 17 years. And what are their names? My sister's name is Betty, Betty Dreyfus. She married Asher Dreyfus, who was a distant cousin, and he was from Oklahoma City.
And my brother is Alan Linskahn. All of our middle names are Lins. And Alan is six years younger than my sister. And he married Rita Stockman from Tyler. Can you remember life when you were a child living in South Dallas, what it was like at the time? Yes, I do. I remember living on South Irby Street and I remember I had a nurse and I remember playing with some of the children in the neighborhood. One of them I remember was Maxine Whitman, who later moved to California. Then of course I remember more clearly when we moved to South Boulevard in Oakland and I went to John Henry Brown School which was just a block away from me And I walked to school and I knew practically everybody on the street or all the children anyhow And my parents knew many of the adults.
and one of my closest friends was Helen Jacob Strauss. She's now married to Bob Strauss. They lived on South Boulevard. For the benefit of those who will hear this tape 50 years from now, tell us who Bob Strauss is. Okay, well, Bob Strauss has been very active in the Democratic Party. He was National Democratic Chairman at one time and he's held numerous posts. I honestly can't remember them all, but he's a lawyer. He's an attorney with offices here and in Washington, but he spends most of his time in Washington. I believe he was treasurer of the Democratic Party at one time. He was chairman of the Democratic Party at one time.
And treasurer. Yes, he was treasurer. Trade representative. And he, I think, has been a consultant to several presidents. Did you know him then? No, Bob was not from Dallas. Bibles from Stanford, Texas. Oh, okay. And he and Helen met at the University of Texas. I knew him when he and Helen started going together. Now, what did you kids used to do for fun? I know nowadays kids watch television. Yeah. There was no television. What did you What did your kids do in your spare time when you weren't in school? Well, we used to, when we were little, we used to jump rope, and we used to roller skate, and we used to ride our bicycles, and we used to play jacks, and we, in the, we belonged to the Columbian Club, and in the summer we would go to the Columbian Club and go swimming almost every day.
And where was the Columbian Club located? Well, at that time, when I was, most of the time I was growing up, the Columbia Club was on Garland, on Garland Road. And incidentally, my grandfather was the first president of the Columbia Club, Simon Linden. Uh Okay Was he one of the founders of the club Yes Uh Right what did your parents do Oh in the summers I went to camp Oh, okay. And what did your parents do in their leisure time? Oh, well, one thing that I want to mention is that the summers, of course, were so terribly, terribly hot because we had no air conditioning.
And so anyone who could afford to leave Dallas in the summers did. And so for, I think, seven consecutive summers, we went to Long Beach, California. And a lot of people from Texas used to go to Long Beach. There was a beautiful old hotel there called the Virginia. And we all stayed at the Virginia Hotel, and it was wonderful. And it was right across from the beach. And that hotel is no longer there. It was destroyed by an earthquake. Now, did you go to Sunday school? Yes, I went to Sunday school, yes. All three of us went to Sunday school. Where? At Temple Emanuel. Temple Emanuel was also on South Boulevard or on the corner of Harwood and South Boulevard.
And we used to walk to Sunday school and walk home again. Who was rabbi there then? Well, Dr. Lethwitz was the rabbi, I believe, the whole time that I was in Sunday school. I don't know how many years he was rabbi, but for many, many years. And he was the one who married us, too. And I was confirmed at Temple Emanuel. I also went to kindergarten at Temple Emanuel. They had a preschool there, yes, before I went to Brown School. Two sisters, Margaret and B. Cone, ran the Sunday school there. I mean, ran the kindergarten. And I went there every day. Every day? Every day.
Oh, really? That was kind of a pioneering thing. Yes, now that I think back it really was. Were your parents very involved in the temple? Were they very active? My grandfather was very active in the temple. I think he was probably on the original board. That was Simon. Simon Lenz, right. In fact, all of the Lenz brothers, I think, were on the board of the temple from time to time. But I don't believe that my mother or father were ever very active in the temple. in the temple. Now my husband was, but my mother and father were not. I mean we always went to Sunday school, but I don't think either one of them actively pertained to the church participated in the temple.
We always felt like we were religious, but not in a traditional sense. Now what do you mean by that, not in a traditional sense? Well, we didn't observe a lot of the customs that many Reformed Jewish people do today. I mean, we didn't light candles on Friday nights. We went to services occasionally on Friday nights, but not often. We always went to services on the holidays. Actually, my father and his mother and father were probably a little more observant than my mother and her family. And, for instance, on Yom Kippur, my father and aunt and grandmother always fasted. But we felt that our religion was very much an ethical religion, that it was important to be the right kind of a person, to do what was right, and whether we lit the candles on Friday night or did another traditional custom to us was not important.
That wasn't part of our religion. So it was more or less an ethical religion for you. Right. In fact, I would say that most of my friends and my parents' friends and my grandparents' friends probably believed as we did and observe their religion as we did. Okay. Now, let's talk a little bit about your father's family, the Cairns. Okay, and where were they from in this country? Well, my grandfather, Cairns, you know, is the one that came over from L.S. Lorain. Right. And he settled in Gainesville. Oh, Gainesville, okay. Right. And my grandmother was from Macon, and when they married, they lived in Gainesville. Okay.
In Macon, Georgia, and in Gainesville, Texas. And Gainesville was a very small town and still is I think it about 12 And my grandfather was in the hotel grocery business and he eventually brought all of his family over to this country and many of them lived in Oklahoma which was at that time still Indian territory. Some lived in Tulsa and some in Oklahoma City And I think almost all of them were in the grocery business. And a nephew of my grandfather, Sylvan Goleman, was, he owned a chain of grocery stores in Oklahoma called Humpty Dumpty. And he expanded, I think, beyond Oklahoma. And then he was the one who invented the push cart that they used in grocery stores.
Oh. And he manufactured. He had a manufacturing plant that manufactured them. And so as long as he lived, he died several years ago, but as long as he lived, he and now his family received royalties from that. From every cart? That's right. Isn't that nice? Yeah, that is nice. Uh-huh. Now, so your father was born where, in Gainesville? Gainesville, Texas, and he came to Dallas when he was, well, after he finished school. He didn't go to college, he went to business school, and I don't know which business school he attended. I think one up east, but I'm not sure, I don't remember. But he came to Linds Brothers, I guess, when he was about 20, or in his early 20s, as a salesman.
And he worked for Linds Brothers, and that's how he and my mother met. And they were married in 1916. Now was that during the war, World War I? Yes, I guess so. What year did the war start? I think 1914. Yes. Well, that was during the war, I'm sure. And I was born in 1918, which was near the end of the war. And my grandparents moved to Dallas, my grandfather and grandmother Cam moved to Dallas, oh I would guess in the 1920s and they lived on Browder Street And we still have the lot where their house was it right in the back of the Convention Center Oh but there no house huh There no house there no You mean the family still owns the lot?
The family still owns the lot. Oh, really? It's a parking lot now. Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. Did anyone in the family have to go to the service in World War I? I think my father was too old. My father was 11 years older than my mother. And I think probably he was too old to be drafted. But my uncle, Clifton Lenz, was in the service. He was in the Quartermaster Corps, and he became either a First Lieutenant or a Captain. I can't remember which. And it was interesting. He was on the ship Tip-a-canoe when it was torpedoed by the Germans, and it was sunk. And he spent 48 hours in a life raft.
He and a number of his other friends spent 48 hours in a life raft until they were rescued. Now, did the family know that he was on that ship? I guess that they did. As soon as he could after this happened, he wrote a very long letter, which I still have, describing the incident. And I really am not sure whether they knew he was on the ship or not. This probably was before I was born, because it must have been around 1917, something like that. Well, that's quite a story. So thankfully he was rescued. Right. He was very, very lucky. Yeah. And he married my father's sister, so a sister and a brother married a sister and a brother.
Okay. Blanche Canne married Clifton Lynn. All right. And they had no children. And so we were very close to them. Okay. And your mother was a... My mother was a Lens, Braze Lens. Right. And she, both my uncle Clifton and my mother went to Bryan Avenue High School, which was the only high school in Dallas then, down on Bryan Street. I believe it's still there. Oh yes it now a business magnet Well I thought it was a magnet school Yes And they both went there to begin with and then my uncle went to Terrell School for Boys and then my mother went to Hockaday School for Girls.
I see. And my grandfather was one of ten men who brought Ms. Hockaday to Dallas and started the Hockaday School. Oh, really? Uh-huh. And there were ten girls in the original class, and my mother was one of them. Oh, really? That was over on Oak Lawn, wasn't it, at the time? I think it was on Haskell Street, but I'm not sure. It was in a house. Oh, so they were, okay. It was in a house originally on Haskell Street. And then when they built the school, they built on Greenville. Oh, Greenville was what I was trying to say. Yes. Right. Greenville Avenue, and they were there for many years before they moved out to Welch.
In fact, I went to Hockaday when it was on Greenville Avenue, and my oldest daughter was in the last graduating class at the old school. Oh, I see. Okay, so you went from Brown to where now? I graduated from Brown, and I have to tell you that the biggest event in my life while I was growing up, I think, was that I was elected May Queen at Brown when I was in the sixth grade. And that stands out in my memory as a very exciting event. But after I graduated from Brown, I went to Forest Avenue High School for one year, that's now Madison. Right.
And then I went to Hockaday. And I was at Hockaday for three years, and after I graduated from Hockaday, I went to the University of Wisconsin. And graduated from Wisconsin in 1939. How did you happen to pick Wisconsin? Well, my mother really wanted me to go to Wellesley, and I really didn't want to go to a girls school after being in Hockaday for three years. I wanted to go to a co-ed school. But I didn't want to go north where there was snow. And so I got a lot of snow at Wisconsin. My first year up there was the coldest winter they'd had in 20 or 30 years and so I got my fill of snow the four years I was there.
Did you pledge? Yes, I was in 85. I lived in the sorority house the My last three years. Uh-huh. Were you active, very active in the sorority? Oh, I think I was secretary or something like that. But I loved the sorority. We had a lot of fun. Uh-huh. We're about to run out too. So, and were you active on campus in any organizations? No, I really wasn't. I wasn't active on campus, I'm sorry to say. say. I was a very good student and I made good grades and I graduated magna cum laude. Oh did you? Uh huh. But I was not active on campus. We were so absorbed in our sorority activities that not too many of the girls in the sorority house were active on campus unfortunately.
It wasn't until I got out of school and actually until I was married that I really became active in organizations. So what did you do when you got out of school? Incidentally I majored in sociology. Okay, well that fits with what I know that you've done since. So what did you do? What were the choices then that were open to women? Well, when I graduated, I went to work as a social worker for WPA, the Works Projects Administration. This was during the... I went to work for WPA in Paris, Texas. I was hired by Mrs. Pascoe, who was a wonderful woman here in Dallas. She was the regional head of social workers for WPA.
and I worked in Paris interviewing primarily men. In fact, I don't remember interviewing any women. They were primarily men who wanted to go to work for WPA. And the main work that we had for them in Paris was working in gravel pits. They were very, very poor. It was during the Depression, and it was really a terrible time. And what surprised me so was that there were a lot of young boys and they couldn read or write And we used to interview them in the office and then we used to go out to the gravel pits and set ourselves up for the day and spend the day at the gravel pit interviewing them.
And it was quite an experience, quite an eye-opener for me. Imagine it was quite a cultural shock. Yes, it was. It was. Well, I used to come back to Dallas every weekend. But at the end of seven months, my parents were very unhappy with me staying in Paris. I think they thought that I was going to stay there for the rest of my life and never get married. Oh. And so they wanted me to come home. So finally, at the end of about seven months, I told Mrs. Paschal I was going to have to resign because I wanted to come back to Dallas. and so she transferred me back to the Dallas office and I worked here.
Oh, so you were able to work here too. Yes, for, oh, I don't know, about a year. And while I was working for WPA, I met my husband, to be Carl, and he was also doing social work of a sort. And do you want me to tell you about... With WPA? No, no, no. He went to the Wharton School and received his degree. He's originally from San Antonio. And he went to the Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania, and received a bachelor's in business. And then he went back to San Antonio and sold stocks and bonds for a couple of years, but he hated it. And he felt that his success was because of his family.
His family had been prominent in San Antonio, and he wanted to make it on his own. And so he went back to school at the University of Chicago and got a master's in social service administration. And he worked in Chicago for a short time after he got his master's, and then he came back to Texas. And his first job was as a child welfare consultant in juvenile delinquency for the state. And then he went to work for Old Age Assistance, and he was Regional Director of North Texas for Old Age Assistance. And he this I believe that I met him when he was still working as Child welfare consultant I met him in Galveston at a Texas Social Welfare Association convention And then he moved to Dallas when he went to work for Old Age Assistance.
And after that we started dating and we got married in 1941. Now, that was right before the war, wasn't it? Yes. Well, the war was going on, but we weren't in it yet. Well, I remember, because I was in school in 1938, I remember all the boys registering and leaving, registering for the draft and leaving. Well, Carl, at the time Carl and I got married, he was trying to get a commission in the reserve At that time you could get a commission by correspondence. And so as soon as we got married, he assigned me all of his lessons. Oh! I stopped working after we got married.
And so I did a lot of his homework for him. And so we passed the written work for a commission, but he flunked the physical. So he did not get his commission, and he was not drafted. Okay. And so after you were married, you just didn't work, as most women didn't. Well, actually, Carl was traveling a lot. At that point, our governor was Governor Papio Daniel, and he asked Carl to make a survey. He wanted Carl to make a survey of towns that had army camps. because a lot of problems, social problems, were being created in these small towns, such as Brownwood and even El Paso and other places like that.
And so Carl traveled a good deal at the time, and I traveled with him. A month after we were married, I broke out with measles in El Paso because we had been to the Brownwood Army camp, and they had a measles epidemic. Oh my. So you were sick there? Yes, I was quarantined in the hotel in El Paso. That was an interesting experience in El Paso, incidentally. This was in 1941 I guess it was about March of 1941 And Fort Bliss is in El Paso And they had a mock blackout They had Army Day and they had a mock blackout and we all went up on the roof of the hotel and they had planes flying over, and the whole city was blacked out.
It really started to be scary. I did. And then they also had, the next day they had a big parade at the Army base for Army Day. So how long did this traveling phase of your marriage last? Well, we, I would say six or eight months, I don't know. We lived at Maple Terrace. We had an apartment with no kitchen because we were traveling so much of the time. And we did live, we moved to Austin for a couple of months when he was doing the study for the governor and his headquarters were in Austin. And then when we came back to Dallas, my father and uncle persuaded Carl to go into the jewelry business.
There was no young person in our family in the jewelry business at that time and so they persuaded him to give up what he was doing and go into the jewelry business. And he stayed in the jewelry business for 25 years and eventually was president of Lenz. But the whole time that he was in the jewelry business, he was able to keep up his community work and I think that was his real love. And then when he retired from the jewelry business after we sold Linds Brothers, Eric Johnson who was then our mayor asked him to be welfare consultant for the city. And he did that for a couple of years, and then he became Regional Director of Civil Rights for a five-state area for the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare.
And he was involved with that for a few years, and he also was adjunct faculty in the Sociology Department of SNU. So even though he was in the business world for 25 years, he still did social work as a volunteer. He did a lot of community work. Yeah, and then he went back to it as a professional when he retired from Lindsbrothers. He was the first Jewish president of the old community chest, which is now United Way. Uh-huh, yeah. What were some other things he was involved in during those 25 years? Well, let's see. He was president of the community chest. He was president of the Dallas Big Brothers.
He was president of the Texas Social Welfare Association. He was president of the Temple. So he was always a chief, not an Indian. No, he was an Indian, too. Was he? Uh-huh. He was very active in the Council on Crime and Delinquency, both Texas Council on Crime and Delinquency and the National Council on Crime and Delinquency. He was on their board. And he was one of the essayists on the original Goals for Dallas. And he was a delegate to the 1960 White House Conference for Children and Youth in Tokyo, I believe. Was it Tokyo? No, no. He was at a conference there in 1970. I've forgotten where the 1960 White House conference was.
I guess it was in Washington. Mm-hmm. And he was also a, Governor Connolly appointed him a member of the State Welfare Board. Mm-hmm. And, oh, he was just active in a lot of things. Mm-hmm. In Planned Parenthood. He was on the first board of Presbyterian Hospital. I think he was sort of the token Jewish representative and he was chairman of the building committee when the hospital was built. And he was on the board of the National Bank of Commerce, the central business district, Jewish Family Service, and a whole big bunch of things. But one of the things that he was most proud of was the Dallas County youth study that He conducted the Dallas County Youth Study, and I don't remember what year that was, but that was a big job and he was very proud of that And he you want me to go on Yeah go ahead and then I ask you what you were doing all those years And he received some awards The Junior Chamber of Commerce in 1961 named him Boss of the Year.
The Dallas Big Brothers gave him the Outstanding Leadership Award in 1961. The Texas Social Welfare Association honored him with a meritorious award for services to the community. This was a state award in 1963 and the chapter of the National Association of Negro Business and Professional Women's Clubs gave him a distinguished service award in 1966 and then in 1969 he received the Brotherhood Award from the National Conference of Christians and Jews. So he was active in a lot of things throughout the years. And really, I would say he was particularly proud of the Dallas County Youth Study, and then two other things that he worked on that he sort of worked behind the scenes in many cases.
He worked behind the scenes with the Women's Council of Dallas and with the Council of of Jewish women, the Dallas section of the National Council of Jewish Women, to get a School of Social Work at the University of Texas at Arlington. Oh. And I was active in the Women's Council and the Council of Jewish Women at that time, and so he would prod me to get this done. And so with the, because of these two organizations, I think that we were able to establish this Graduate School of Social Work. And then also another project was a social worker at the Dallas County Jail. Oh yes.
Very important. He was very proud of that. Oh yeah. He was particularly active in juvenile justice and in the criminal justice system. Now what were your areas of activity during those years after you quit working? Did you ever work after that incidentally? No, never worked again after I got married. Retired immediately. Yeah, uh-huh. And most of us did in those days. And of course I had two babies pretty close together And I suppose my first volunteer work was as an assistant brownie leader And through that, I became interested in Girl Scouts. And I eventually became president of Dallas Girl Scout Council. And I suppose that was my first big job.
Uh-huh. And then I was very active in the Women's Council. I was president of the Women's Council at one point and the Council of Jewish Women. And I was a director of the United Fund and I was a director of the YWCA and a trustee of the Health and Science Museum and the Dallas Community Council, a number of organizations. I was president of the Hockaday Alumni Association and did I say the Dallas Family Guidance Center? No, you didn't. And I think I was on the first board of the Callier Hearing and Speech Center. And so I had a lot of interesting experiences. Sure. Now you told me what Carl was most proud of in the work that he did.
What were you most proud of? Well, I too was, I think, most proud of those two accomplishments, which I felt that he and I and the two organizations accomplished together. Actually, Carl was prodding me to get the School of Social Work at Arlington, and I think it was the Women's Council who really was most active in getting that done. And I think it was the Council of Jewish Women who was most active in getting the social worker at the jail, and they provided the salary for the social worker as a pilot project for several years. And I understand that this project is still going on.
In fact, I think they have more than one social worker now. Oh, yes. They have a whole social worker department. Yes, right. Uh-huh. Yeah. But this was the beginning. And I think that those probably were my biggest accomplishments too Certainly a much needed project But it was because of Carl that I mean he was the one who was prodding me to get this done Now when you were active in council and you say you were president what were some of the things that you sort of got going during your administration Was the School of Social Work one of them? Well, the School of Social Work and the Social Work at the jail.
Okay, and those came to fruition then? Yes, right. And at that time, we had a program every month. Now, I believe there are just four programs a year. But that time, we had a program, I think, nine programs a year, either eight or nine programs a year. There was one every month. And we had some very fascinating programs. And a lot of, we tried to tie the programs in with the projects that we were working towards. So some of them were concerned with the crime problem, the juvenile justice problem. and we also had several interesting schools for community action that were sent to us by national and we carried them out.
One was a spotlight on the family and let's see I can't remember what the other one was but and we did these schools in in connection with other organizations And I honestly would have to refer to my notes to remember what other projects we had when I was president. Yeah. I'm interested in knowing why you chose council as against other Jewish organizations to be active in, to put so much energy and time into. Well, what other organizations, for instance? Oh, there are so many. There are dozens of Jewish artists. I had always belonged to Council. Oh, there's the Sisterhood. Well, I did. I belonged to the Sisterhood of the Temple, and I still belonged to the Sisterhood.
But I don't know. The Sisterhood at that time did not seem to be as active with community things as it was with helping the Temple. And my interests were more in community affairs. So council was more attractive to me. You wanted more of a community-wide involvement. Right. Now, I mean, I'm certainly interested in the temple, and of course Carl was president of the temple at one time, and I have been on committees, and I'm on the worship committee of the temple now. Oh, are you? Yes. and I was on the long range planning committee this last year at the temple and so I'm certainly interested in the temple but I was never active in the sisterhood as you look back and it wasn't that I mean I was so involved with other things that I really, you know you have to pick and choose I guess oh sure, absolutely as you look back goodness, all these years of your involvement in the temple, plus your grandparents' involvement way, way back.
There must have been a lot of changes through the years as the temple evolved. What are some of those changes? Or do you agree that there were changes? Oh yes, there definitely have been changes. Well, of course, the temple was much smaller when I was growing up and when it was in South Dallas. And the temple was less traditional in those days. Dr. Lefkowitz, I would say, was less concerned with tradition. You mean Jewish tradition? With Jewish tradition, right, than the rabbis are today. In fact, I think the Hebrew Union College has changed. I suppose the advent of Israel and the Holocaust had a lot to do with this change.
But there were no bar mitzvahs in classical reform Judaism, and we were all confirmed. Right. But there was never a bar mitzvah or a bat mitzvah. Okay. And the rabbis did not wear tallaces, which our rabbis do today. And there just more emphasis on the traditions and old customs than there were in those days Okay How does that sit with you Well, I accept the change, but it is... I'm not against change, but it is very hard for me to really go along with some of the things that the rabbis would like for us to go along with now. And I think that a lot of my friends feel the same way.
I think that my children feel the same way. Although one of my grandsons was bar mitzvahed a few years ago, and that was the first bar mitzvah. Well, I say it was a family, but my father was bar mitzvahed, amazingly enough. Oh, was he? Uh-huh. But I don't know where. He lived in Gainesville and I honestly don't know where he was bar mitzvahed. Surely he couldn't have been bar mitzvahed in Gainesville. No, I don't imagine they even had a temple. Uh-huh. Well, that's interesting. And he wasn't in Dallas at that age. No. Uh-huh. I don't know where he was bar mitzvahed. There was a synagogue in Jefferson.
Jefferson, was that anywhere near Gainesville? Jefferson is in East Texas. Yes, but that was quite some distance. Yeah, it's possible. Or Oklahoma City, perhaps. I don't know, I'm sorry I didn't ask. Yeah, but that's really interesting. Right, uh-huh. Okay, so there's been one bar mitzvah. Have there been any bat mitzvahs? No. None of the girls and none of your granddaughters? No. Because bat mitzvahs are pretty new to the town. Uh-huh, right. Okay. Now what are the rabbis sort of, are they pushing it or are they just setting an example? What specific things are they doing that seem rather strange to be happening in the temple?
Well, of course, looking back, even when Rabbi Olin came here, we felt that there was a big difference between Rabbi Olin and Dr. Lefkowitz. Because we felt that Rabbi Olin tended to be a little more conservative and less classically reformed than Dr. Lefkowitz. More like Sheriff Israel you think I would guess Yeah But of course all the emphasis on Israel at that time I think turned people off who had not been Zionists you know and I think that that was one of the problems but in time I mean we accepted that everything that Rabbi Olin stood for and I think he mellowed a little bit too I think you know he realized that this community was and the members of the temple was sort of a pluralistic group but there were a lot of classical reform Jews there and so I think that he I think he changed a little bit too but my husband and Rabbi Olin grew to be very very close friends and then when Rabbi Zimmerman came of course a lot of people felt that there was a great deal of difference between Rabbi Zimmerman and Rabbi Olin and there are more changes now but this just reflects the changes in the membership of the congregation I mean many members of the temple had formerly come from conservative congregations and had joined the temple and I think this was reflected but I think it primarily is reflected by the Hebrew Union College so you think And the new prayer book.
You know, some of my friends still are unhappy with the new prayer book. But as I say, I am not averse to change. Okay. Do you not like the new prayer book? No, I think the new prayer book is very beautiful, and it doesn't bother me to use the new prayer book at all. Uh-huh. But there are some people who feel that they're familiar with the old prayers and they don't want to change. Uh-huh, yeah. Let's talk about your children and grandchildren a little bit. Okay. I loved it. I'm sure you would. What pattern have your girls followed in terms of what they do with their time as opposed to what you did with your time after you became a young matron married woman Susie my oldest daughter she went to Hockaday graduated from Hockaday and then she went to Wellesley, graduated from Wellesley.
And after she, let me see, after she graduated, she came back to Dallas. And I'm trying to think what she did. She worked. So I'm trying to think where she worked. At one point, she worked for the Dallas Morning News. And at one point, she worked for Double Day Bookstore. After that, she became involved in community organizations. Well, she had two children, and then when her children were very small, she married a boy from Fort Worth, Jack Greenman, who came from a background that was very similar to ours. And he was a stockbroker, and when her children were very small, she has a girl and a boy, her daughter's oldest her name is Elizabeth she's now 20 and her son and Elizabeth also went to Hockaday and in fact Susie was the first I was the first second generation to graduate from Hockaday Susie was the first third generation and Elizabeth was the first fourth generation to graduate from Hockaday but anyhow Elizabeth is now a sophomore at Williams College and Susie's son, John, is a senior at St.
Mark's, and he'll go to either Yale or Williams next year. Now, is he the one who was bar mitzvah? No. No. No, that was Kathy's son. But anyhow, Susie and Jack moved to New York when the children were quite small, and they lived in New York for 12 years. And while Susie was living in New York, she became very... Well, just before they moved to New York, she was asked to join the Junior League, and I think she was the first Jewish girl to be asked to join the Junior League. So she had begun to be active in the Junior League here when they moved to New York.
So when she went to New York, she became active in the Junior League in New York, and she was eventually vice president. And she was vice president of Junior League when she moved back. But she also went to work in New York. And she worked primarily in public relations. She worked in the theater business to begin with. And then she went to work as assistant public relations, as the assistant public relations person at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York. And then she went to work for a man named George Klein, who was in the commercial real estate business. He was sort of like Trump, the builder.
He was a young fella in his 40s who had built 12 skyscrapers in New York already. And he is the one who has the contract to build Times Square, to redo Times Square now. And so Susie was the liaison between his company and their public relations agency. And that was a very exciting job. And she loved New York, and she really didn't want to move back to Dallas. But her husband did. So eventually they did move back to Dallas. And since they've moved back to Dallas, she has done some work for council. But she did go back to work this year. In fact, she had done a lot of volunteer work.
She was very active in Friends of Fair Park. She's very active in the girls' club. she still is even though she's working and she's on the National Board of Girls Club of America and but her job now she is she is the chairman of marketing for the Center for Nonprofit Management oh yes and so she really has been very busy and very active And both her daughter and her son are very good students. And now Kathy, my middle daughter, married Lester Baum, also from Fort Worth. And Susan's husband's name is Jack Greenman. I think I forgot to mention that You told me that And Lester Baum is an attorney And Kathy has been on the board of the temple And she but she really has not done a lot of community work And she has two children.
Her son is the one who is bar mitzvahed. And he is, he's 18 now. And he's a senior at Green Hill. He'll go to the University of Pennsylvania next year, which is where Carl went and where his father went. And they have a daughter, Betsy, who's 16. Betsy is 16. And both she and Mike are very good students, too. So, so far, we're very lucky. Now Peggy is my youngest daughter, and she is ten years younger than Susie, and seven and a half years younger than Kathy, so she's really my baby. And her husband, David Milhiser, is originally from New York. And Peggy went to Hockaday, and then went to Hillcrest, and graduated from Hillcrest High School.
and then she went to Stevens College and was not happy there, transferred to Finch in New York and loved it and majored in art history. And one reason she loved it so much is because she was able to work at the Metropolitan Museum and receive college credit. And after she graduated from Finch, she remained in New York and she worked there. And, um, oh, I remember, now her first job was as an assistant buyer at Burdorf Goodman. Mm-hmm. And she was very interested in the retail business. Then she went to work as a buyer for a small firm. and then interestingly enough she went to work as a buyer for an Arab who opened the first Arab department store in Jeddah and he knew she was Jewish She talked to him about it and but he she had been recommended to him and so he wanted to hire her And so she got a very good salary.
He sent her to London and to Paris, and she bought for him. and she bought these fabulous clothes like Oscar de la Renta, and that the women wore underneath their robes, and they would take the robes off at private parties when they were just in the company of other women. Anyhow, Peggy married Dave, and they lived in New York for two or three years after they were married, and then they moved to Dallas. And he is now with Lone Star Gas. Now you say her employer was from Jeddah? Where is that? It's Saudi Arabia. Oh, Saudi Arabia, my goodness. Yes. And was she at all uncomfortable there being Jewish?
Well, the interesting thing is that this boy came, this man came from a very wealthy family. And he went to the University of Colorado. while he was there he met his wife and I subsequently met his wife because she came to Dallas to the market one year and Peggy helped her buy and it turned out her maiden name was Nathan and I said to Peggy afterwards I said Peggy was she Jewish and he she said yes but his family doesn't know it and he's the He's the only one that knows it. Nobody else knows it. Isn't that amazing? And they live in Jeddah? They live in Jeddah.
That is really interesting. And it was a really interesting experience for Peggy. And after she moved back to Dallas, she still worked for him part-time. She would buy for him when they had the markets here in Dallas. And she has two children. She has a boy and a girl. And one's six and one's five. and she had not gone back to work because her children are still small, but she would eventually like to. But her children go to Parish Day School, which is an Episcopal school, which happens to be near where she lives, but she thinks it a very wonderful school although next year Robert will go to a public school in Richardson but Peggy has done a lot of volunteer work at Parish Day School and she is on the parents board She secretary of the parents board at Parish Did that experience, maybe I should ask her this, not you, but she may have discussed it with you.
Did that experience in Arabia... Well, she never went to Saudi Arabia. Oh, she never lived there. No, she was not allowed to go to Saudi Arabia because she was Jewish and because she was a woman, both. Because women in Saudi Arabia weren't supposed to work. Did that experience working for a, he was Moslem, I guess, for a Moslem, and the fact that she could not have chosen to go had she wanted to, to Saudi Arabia. Did that change the way she looked at herself in the Jewishness? Not really. Not really. No, not really. When he hired her, I mean when he first spoke to her, she said, well you know I'm Jewish, and he said that doesn't make any difference.
Okay, well that was good. Right, but I mean she had qualms about going to work for him in the beginning, but after talking to him she was reassured, and this was really a very exciting, challenging job for her. Have you, during your lifetime, had any occasion to feel any sort of discrimination, anti-Semitism, anywhere? Once in my life, when I was working for WPA in Paris, Texas, one of the men who was an engineer with WPA was having coffee with another social worker and myself and we were sitting in a booth in a café talking and he said, where in Dallas do you live? And I said, on South Boulevard.
And he said, what are you doing living on South Boulevard? He said, that's where all the Jews live. And I said, maybe it's because I am Jewish. And so he looked at me and he said, oh, no, you're not. He said, you're not little and black and greasy. Oh, my. And that is the only time in my life that I can ever remember, ever remember. feeling discriminated against. I think a lot of times people blame discrimination when they don't get a job or when something doesn't happen to them, when they don't get into a school or something. And I've never felt this way. Not at college or in high school?
Never. Never. I've never felt this way. I mean, I realize that the country clubs in Dallas don't take Jews and there is discrimination. But I personally have never felt discrimination, and I have many friends both in the Jewish and non-Jewish community. Although I'd say that my closest friends are primarily in the Jewish community. So you've never suffered because of your Jewish identity? No, I never have. You've never had any doors closed to you? No. As you look back, what are some world events or even community history events that have have there been any that have had any sort of an impact on your life, maybe changed the course of your life?
Well, I don't know that any, well, I guess the war changed the course of everybody's lives, World War II. Yeah. But the only part of history that I ever felt I might have been close to was when Kennedy was assassinated. Because Carl and Peggy and my Aunt Blanche and I were at the luncheon at the Trademart the day that he was shot. And we were sitting, Carl was a member of the Citizens Council, and we were sitting very close to the speaker's table. And we were all sitting there waiting for Kennedy to arrive. And, of course, it got later and later and later. And finally, Mayor Johnson got up and said that we should start eating because Kennedy had been hit.
And we didn't know what that meant. We thought it was maybe he had been hit over the head like Lyndon Johnson was the time that he was here. Remember when he was here and someone hit him over the head with a sign? I was there that night. And we thought maybe that that what had happened And then in a little while Reverend Luther Holcomb got up and said that we would adjourn That he had been, I think they said at that point that he had been shot, but we didn't know that he was dead. and he said a prayer and then everybody walked out very quietly.
There wasn't a word. And it wasn't until we got into the car and turned on the radio that we found out that he was dead. Of course, that's something I'll never forget. And you said Peggy was with you. Peggy was with us. She was about 10 years old. How did she react? Well, the same. I mean, you know, it was something she could never forget and of course everybody thought Most people thought Kennedy was so wonderful at the time and it really was a terrible tragedy for the United States and for Dallas. Are there any family stories you've grown up with, either the Lins or the Cannes family?
families tell and retell certain stories either about somebody in the family or something humorous can you recall anything like that I really can't at the moment well one one funny story I think is that the old Lins building was a beautiful old building it had I don't believe I described it to you it had marble columns marble floors Tiffany glass windows it was a magnificent building but it was very very hot in the summertime because of course there was no air conditioning and so my grandfather and two of my uncles great great uncles wanted to put in ceiling fans and Joseph Linz who was the oldest brother said no because he thought it would spoil the decor so that summer he went to Europe on a buying trip and while he was gone my grandfather and Ben and Albert had ceiling fans installed.
When Joseph returned he was so furious that that he left the business permanently and never came back Isn that amazing His son incidentally Clarence Lenz was very prominent in the community Clarence was in the jewelry business for just a short time, but he didn't get along very well with my Uncle Ben, and so he left the business. But he had a multitude of jobs. At one time, he was president of Southwestern life insurance company and during the depression they were having a very hard time and he put up all of his own money and he was very wealthy at the time he put up all of his own money rather than go bankrupt which was the honorable thing to do and after that he he he really never had a lot of money but he always had some interesting jobs he owned the Dallas dispatch which was a newspaper at one time he was let's see he was very he was very active in interstate theaters he owned the ice skating rink at Fair Park and so he had a multitude of jobs and he they lived in a beautiful home on Howland Drive and his His son, Joe Lenz, did go into the jewelry business eventually, and he was at Lenz Brothers with my husband.
He was a contemporary of my husband, and he's still living. But they have no children, and so there will be no more Lenz's. So there's no Lenz connected with any of the stores that bear the name? No, none at all. Not of one? No. Ben and Albert Lins had no children. Joseph Lins only had one son and one grandson, and that was Clarence and Joe, and Joe was in the business, and he had no children. And none of the sisters lived in Dallas, and at that time, most of their lives, they lived in other cities. And my grandfather was the only one that had descendants, and so it was his descendants who actually ran the store until he sold it.
Was your brother ever in the business? Yes, my brother was in the business, and my brother-in-law. Asher Dreyfuss? Yes Asher Dreyfuss Jr After my grandfather died which was in 1935 my uncle Clifton Lenz became president of Lenz And when he died my father Asher Can became president And then when he died, my husband, Carl, became president until we sold the business. So it was really a family business all the way down? Yes, uh-huh. And now none of your grandchildren are connected. No, well, my grandchildren aren't old enough. Yeah. My grandchildren aren't old enough. But none of your children are. None of my children are. No, no, no.
Yeah. One of my children is a stockbroker, one's a lawyer, and one's with Longstar Gas. Anything you'd like to add that I forgot to ask you about? Anything you'd like to put on this tape? Well, I guess one of the nicest honors I ever received was last year I received the Hockaday Distinguished Alumni Award. I was proud of that. Uh-huh. No, the only thing I'd like to say is that all of my activities in the community, I think, were really due in the beginning to Carl's prodding me to do these things. Uh-huh. He was very active in community service, and he wanted me to be very active in community service.
And once I became involved, of course, I loved it. But he was a big help to me in many ways. And he was really so committed to... He was a real reformer, you know. He was so committed to juvenile justice and criminology. As a matter of fact, shortly before he died, he was writing a book on the criminal justice system, and he was never able to get it published. Is it finished? Yes, it is finished. Well, that's a shame that it's not... Let's see, I think the name of it was... Let me see if I can remember. The criminal justice system, verdicts, guilty. Oh. Well, you know, sometimes things are written before the community has caught up with the thinking.
Definitely. He was really ahead of his time in the thinking. I mean, he believed in rehabilitation, not just punishment. and now with all the problems of crime in the community and people wanting to build more and more jails. I mean, he was ahead of his time in his thinking. So I'm wondering whether a publisher might be more interested now. Well, a lot of books have been written on this subject and so I doubt it. I have never pursued it. But it's possible. Well, Edna, I certainly appreciate your spending this time with me and giving so much of yourself to this interview. Well, thank you, Bernice.