Elsa Hirsh
Elsa's father was born in Frankfurt, Germany, and later lived in Mainz before immigrating to America in 1890 at age 29, seeking freedom and opportunity. Coming from a family that bred fine horses, he first stayed with an uncle in the New York brewery business before making his way to Dallas. Unable to speak English, he took out a peddler's license in January 1891 and traveled the countryside around Middlethian (Cedar Hill), Duncanville, and Dallas County in a one-horse wagon, sometimes sleeping in barns with his horses. He met and married Elsa's mother, who was born in the Rhine Valley town of Windweiler, and the couple lived in Wills Point, Greenville, and Bowie before settling in Dallas in 1909. He built what Elsa described as the first ladies ready-to-wear wholesale business in Texas, a family-owned company marking its 70th year in 1978.
Elsa was raised in a family that valued thrift, honesty, and nature over ritual. Though her mother observed some traditions and the family attended Temple Emanu-El, Elsa developed independent and often critical views about religious observance and communal politics. She was not confirmed, choosing instead to study alongside her twin brother without appearing on stage, a decision rooted in a childhood hurt from a stern Sunday school teacher and the family's limited means. She recalled walking to services on St. Louis and South Boulevard, stopping at Shep's Bakery, and the distinctions she felt between Reform and Orthodox congregations. Elsa lived at many Dallas addresses over the years, including Cleveland Street, Wendelkin Street, South Boulevard, the Irvington, Avondale, Highland Park, Greenway Parks, and finally her later home.
A trained kindergarten teacher, Elsa built her life around service to children and those in need. She taught the first public kindergarten at Temple Emanu-El, led an early Girl Scout troop, taught gymnasium and dance classes for Jewish children at the Federation building on Harwood and Cedar Springs, and taught English to immigrant women so they could become citizens. Beginning at age 13, she volunteered with the Council of Jewish Women, worked with the blind through the Lighthouse for 38 years, and helped at Dallas' first baby clinic, which she described as a forerunner of the Children's Medical Center. In the 1940s she personally assisted 29 refugee families fleeing Nazi Europe, teaching them how to shop and adjust to American life. She married in 1927 and raised a daughter, Carol.
Immigration and Americanization
Jewish identity and observance
Family and thrift
Volunteerism and service to children
Reform versus Orthodox Judaism in Dallas
Family-owned business and pioneering
Community politics and cliques
Changing Jewish community over the decades
Full Transcript
This is Ginger Jacobs and we're talking with Elsa Larch Hirsch or Mrs. Horish Hirsch today. It's February 21st 1978. Okay, how many years have you lived in Dallas? Since 1909. And were Were you born in Dallas? I was born in Greenville, Texas, February the 20th, 1902. From there I lived until we were three and a half years old. We moved to West Texas, Bowie, Texas, 100 miles from Dallas. Stayed there until the spring of 1909 and we're here. How, can you trace the arrival of your family in the United States? Yes, my father came from, he was born in Frankfurt in Germany and moved to Mainz, M-A-I-N-Z, and came to America when he was 29 years of age.
And he had an uncle that was in the brewery business in New York and he came down to Dallas. He had a pedal in a one-horse wagon covered right out of Dallas here in Middlethaw, but is now Cedar Hill in Duncanville. He could not speak English and used to sleep in the barn with his horses. This year we will have our 70th year with the large manufacturing company. And he pioneered and from there he got a two, I don't have the date of when his pedal was licensed, he had a two horse covered wagon. Do you know when he came to the United States? My father came to the States in 1890.
He took out his peddler's license in January 1891. Now you said he had been a brewer? No his uncle was in the brewery His father in Germany was an owner and breeder of very fine horses Why did he leave Germany Well like everything else it was the time of I guess Bismarck or whoever was over there and he saw the handwriting on the wall, and he came over for freedom of, I guess, speech, liberty, and living. And this is what America is. Why is it he picked Dallas to settle in? It was country. He loved the earth. He loved the outdoors. He was a great athlete.
He loved nature just like my mother. And this is just part of the human makeup. That was his idea of living, where it was wide open spaces and nothing restricted. It was freedom again. What did he peddle? You said that he got another peddler's license. He's peddled cloth and materials and I'm sure needles and pins and scissors and things like that for people to sew and make blankets. He did not speak English and he traveled around Dallas County and Middlethian, Cedar Hill now, and Duncanville and would sleep in the, but with the horses in the barns because they did not want him in the house.
But after time he was allowed I guess maybe to sleep in the house, I don't know. But he, Dallas was the center and there was boarding houses where he lived here in Dallas. And then he met my mother and and they married and lived in Wills Point, again a small town. And then he settled in Greenville, I guess about 1889, 1898, and had the large driver's and from there he went after three and a half years when I was three and a half years old which was in 1905 and 1906 he went to Bowie Texas 100 miles from Dallas Stayed there until 1909. We have been here ever since.
Did he have a dry goods store then when he came to Dallas? No, he had the first ladies ready to wear in the state of Texas. Now, were they made, were the garments? The elements were made in New York and brought here. And this year in 1978, they're in their 70th year. It is one owner has never merged with anybody else. And my brother and nephew are in it. My husband wasn't until three years ago until he retired at 80. My sister was there, Mrs. Foles, and my nephew Larch Foles is there and my brother's only child, Jay Larch, was there until two years ago.
who is now in the real estate business. That's what he wanted to be in. And youth today want to do what makes them happy. And this is part of freedom again. Uh, now they started as a retail? Holesale. Holesale. It's been wholesale and still is. Now is it manufacturing? In their manufacturing they have Decatur, Kingswood, Cleveland, Carroll. They have four manufacturing places besides the one here in Dallas. Five. So he started as a wholesaler then and then went into a wholesaler. They have out of town factories in Cleveland, Decatur, Gainesville, Terrell, and Dallas. Well then he's changed in that they've gone into manufacturing as well as wholesalers, then?
That's it. They sell. Wholesale. There's no retail. But basically, now how has the business changed over the years, other than growth in various factories out of town? They sell at one factory they never made coats here The coats were made out of California or New York but the rest of it The rest is the blouses Of course everything is pantsuits now Shorts and blouses But ladies, ladies ready to wear wholesale. But it is the oldest family owned business in the United States that has never changed anything. They're celebrating it in April. Did your father, what was his occupation then before he came to the United States?
Did he have a trade that changed from one thing to another? No, his father was, no he didn't. He came from an Orthodox family, but they were very... He must have been the mischievous boy because he had to be tutored by Catholic sisters. On the outside, they were always over the weekend in his home. What about his Jewish education? Oh, he was not one for rituals. he always said there was a right and a wrong way and to do the right was easier than to do the wrong and do it over. And we were taught that in our lessons, it was our everyday chores we had to do.
he had a very sensitive, devout feeling, but my mother was more, she was more religious than my father. As I said before, my father would say, it's not the pig-like things that go in your mouth, it's the pig-like things that come out and never do anything that's pig-like. We just, there were just lots of little things he always taught us. We were poor. He had sold our shoes in Boy, Texas. We had no fresh fruit. My mother dried the apples. She dried the apricots. And we bought 50 pounds of prunes. And that was our entire fruit for the winter. And I'm proud. My father would say, if you have a dime, Save a nickel.
If you want a penny lollipop and you don't have the penny, you don't need it. And this is the way we were taught. And there was no ifs, ands, and buts. It was just there. We accepted it. Never an argument. I don't ever remember saying, Daddy, can't I have a pair of shoes? and to this day and he always said long before he died unless you have the money for it you don't need it and he always said this is what's wrong with America everything's on credit and it's unfortunate and those things are ingrained in you and that's it Where was your mother from? She was born in the Rhine Valley, in the Rhinephalts it's called in Germany, in the little town of Windweiler.
And they had a happy home. She was one of nine. My father, I don't know how many, we're tracing now we have our tree. along the line there must have been somebody I don't say that could have had the ideas that that we have about being just Jewish there's somewhere that we were taught that there were other people in the world it's in me I can't fight it I don't know what to do about it. At 76, I just accept it. But that hasn't been paramount if you're a Jew or if you're not orthodox. Because I had it when I was down at the Federation teaching.
I was the only Temple Emanuel person down there. That's true. That's true. When was that? What years are you referring to? 1923 and 1920 21 22 23 when I taught taught Rabbi Abramovich wife and Ms Andress I don't say my way is right. Mm-hmm. I don't know what to do, but I can't change it to bad. What about your mother's Jewish education and her feelings of tradition or life? Well, she had tradition. We never lit the candles. She always said a prayer Friday night. She never sewed on Saturday. I never sewed on Saturday until I married her. And it took me quite a few years.
I felt like I was sinning and then I just thought, well, God, if I do this, I'll have to do something more, maybe, like the Catholics. but it's I don't know we we had mama never kept kosher she didn't because my daddy was there but if you're going to keep kosher be consistent about it how can you eat in a restaurant somewhere else they're not going to have out a little skillet party we rationalize things you know what I mean it was beautiful I'm sure to be kosher if your friends and you but today I just I just think it's I still say that it's hypocritical for Jews not just necessarily Temple of Mania but reformed Jews with parasites either do or don't do That's my logic, and I'm wrong.
Now you said your mother did light candles or did not? Did not, never. But yet she set a prayer on her? Oh, we had matzahs on Passover, and I swapped them for bread when I got to school because everybody wanted the matzahs, so I gave them the matzahs. I bring extra ones with peanut butter. They loved it. But you see what I'm, I can't describe it. Innately, there's God and all these rituals are beautiful. But you either stick to them. See, this is... Did you have any Jewish education? No Oh yeah I went to Sunday School down on Irby Street Temple of Mania and I was not confirmed my twin brother was and I didn I was not confirmed How was it that he was confirmed and you weren't?
Because you had to have a pretty beautiful dress and I felt I was tall and I knew it would cost money. My father, I just didn't. That's all. And another reason is because you had to have Nora Worms or you didn't know her. But she was a very, very tyrannical teacher. And I was very sensitive. and when I was in the third grade she slapped my hymn book out of my hand because it wasn't in the left hand or I had it in the right one of the two it's not nice to talk about the death but she catered to the Sangers and the Cairns and to the Lehmans and we were just the plain lorches we were poor I'm not ashamed to tell you and I said I won't and she came from Germany and when my Prim brother came for the confirmation class.
She had to go in Miss Nora's class. She called up mama and she said where Miss Laura where is Elsa the other twin and my mother said she's home. Why isn't she coming to this confirmation class? She said she doesn't want to. She had hurt my feelings in the third grade. and I was too sensitive, but I guarantee you, I went through the class, my brother's books, but I never got on the stage. That was a farce, and maybe I was wrong, but I was that sensitive. I had the courage then and Mama would let me. That was freedom. It wasn't right. We were 13 then, 14, not 16 today.
But I had the courage. I said, no, I can't go through this. I'm sure I was wrong. But my mother didn hold a whip over me and say you must go She said okay I learned it and I sure I got more out of it than my brother And I didn't get any presents and I never felt that I had been neglected. I had something within and I had the courage to speak. That's not nice, but that's my personal name. You have to live with yourself and that's it. If my petticoats are clean, that's all. Right. What was Jewish education like when you were growing up?
Don't ask me that question. That's not kind. It's factual. there was such a differentiation between Temple Emanuel because you were reformed I hope you get the point so I said it's not a kind question to ask I'm 76 and I still do and the sheriff Israel and the teferith Israel they were humans too and these are the things that I rebelled against and yeah nobody can understand it because I just went into the water and if it was cold I kept on rowing it didn't bother me in the least if I felt what I was doing so you ask me what was your question what was Jewish education like when you were there was it was Sunday school it was clicks it was politics just like it is today work it out I don't care what congregation if it's the Baptist the Methodist Presbyterian Jewish only we got about three or four little ones inside the tube.
That's not right. You see what I'm trying to say? You don't understand. I'm a rugged individualist because I was censored, because I I went down and taught this little paper I just showed you there. When the Federation was down on Harwood and Cedar Springs. I was kindergartning every day, taking training. But I had a free Friday afternoon. And there were Jewish children there. And I wanted to help. And I taught them dancing. You saw that. It's written up. I didn't say it. Yes. Well, why were you censored? What did I go down there for? Well, I mean, here it says that you were an instructor of the gymnasium classes for Jewish Federation Social Sciences.
I wanted to do it. But there wasn't anybody down there from Temple Emanuel. Ah, and did Temple Emanuel tell you something about doing this? No, Temple Emanuel didn't, but Elsa in her heart loved children. Mm-hmm. And my idea, I see I was happy there, they were happy there, and I could help them. Mm-hmm. There was the Rabbi Schwift was there. Mm-hmm. Everybody on Caroline Street, you ask your mother and daddy. Elihu Ruchowski, the Kleinmans. I can tell you all about it. The Donskis. I taught Irving Donski. It's up ahead Sterling. I taught him in that kindergarten. When you take, we took kindergarten training, you had to go three months in the very, very wealthy, which was Miss Taylor's school.
and I died there. Walter Carruth and all of them, all of them. This is W. W. Carruth right here in Dallas. Then we had to go to the Cotton Mills. Then we were back where we were on Cedar Springs and Harwood. And this is the same building that afternoon on Friday when I had a free afternoon. Somebody else would have done, I did just. What was the name of that building on Harwood and Cedar Springs? I don know it was later the Electrified Water It was the Dallas Kindergarten Association building That exactly what it was Was it part of the Jewish Federation office No, the Jewish Federation went in it.
When it closed. Later they took it over. I don't know what year. Don't you have a record of it? I'm sure we would be able to trace it. Of Annie Cohn? Probably trace it in the Dallas directory. But you see what happened before I was even 19, 19, 19 years old teaching there. I had gone around with my mother and my aunt and the horse and buggy down on Irby Street and there's a family that moved in there that needed help for Passover or for Hanukkah. Miss Cam was leaving and all mama would say everybody was going to bake something there I'd schlep along. I just loved it.
I had a sister that's here Miss Foles. She was studying. I couldn't be bothered with school. It was people and youth beings that needed them. Well, now, was that through the Jewish Federation auspices that you went out to move up? No, that was before the Jewish Federation was even born down here. Do you happen to remember about the years? Well, I must have been nine, ten years old. That was 1912, 13. You can look up your records. records. Well there was a Jewish Benevolent Society. Well maybe it was a Jewish Benevolent Society. I don't know the name of it. That wasn't important because I wasn't talking about it.
I don't say... what I've done I've been happy doing and I've been fortunate enough to have been happy. Do you know anything about the Jewish school systems in the other synagogues or temples like what the sheriff israel was like or did you did they teach Hebrew in Temple Emmanuel when you were growing up? No, I never had a Hebrew. I went there seven years. I never had any. I know I got the Bible that I still have because I went to Temple every Saturday and we walked from Wendell Street down to St Louis And we had a nickel my brother and I to ride the streetcar And we were nine years old, that was about 1911, and we passed by the Shep's Bakery.
we'd rather walk, we had a nickel and you got three little sweet rolls for a nickel and Ms. Sheps would say here comes, that was Julius and George Sheps's mother and would say here come the twins and she'd give us an extra one so we didn't have to split it. I mean these are the things I do know that there was a Mrs. Bach that lived behind Shep's bakery, Irwin Bach's mother, I think it was she, and my aunt would drive down with a person buggy and they had somebody that killed the chickens and I heard and I'd say to my mother, are we going to get one today?
And Mama, I think you paid a dollar extra or something for the man to do it. You had to pay. Those are the things, you see. It used to be a dime in the 30s for him to kill the chickens. I think it was hard to pick the feathers. No, one of the feathers is the way they killed it. I know, but I mean, if you wanted them to pick the feathers for you, you'd have to pick that. So this was part of it. We never had a deal like that. My aunt did, that's my mother's sister. I used to say, you're a hypocrite, time to fall in, because she would eat down at the Baker Hotel.
And they'd make her a steak just where the bacon was the day before. This is what I'm calling you. You follow me? This isn't nice to put on a table. Oh, it's accurate. A lot of people share your thinking. What about some of the holidays and your observance, like on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur We always went to temple We always went in a family Always Never We never There was Dr Lefkowitz Dr Greenberg on Irving St Louis and then Dr Lefkowitz up here and we never, I went to all the Bible studies, I taught kindergarten for three years, we never got paid. Like they do now, I don't know if they'll get paid in the sheriff's office.
I think it's a disgrace. Temple pays too. They all pay. I know. I taught for three years. I had the first kindergarten in Temple Emanuel, public kindergarten. and I was paid for that but I don't know the Federation I think does a beautiful job I think we have a lot to learn. Do you remember about the year that you had the first public kindergarten over at Temple? Yes it was the first year of the doctor. It was in 19... I graduated in 19... 2021. I was first in public kindergarten. I had the first Girl Scout movement over there and I asked all the children in the neighborhood that weren't Jewish to come to to be a Girl Scout.
That wasn't nice of me. Do you see what I'm trying to... I understand what you're saying. It wasn't a house. Do you understand what you said? And when I talked down here in 1923, I was 21 years old, that was in the Y-WHA News. That was printed. YMHA. YMHA. that's when Ben Eli was down there they had two physical directors one was Sammy Deutsch I'm sure it's in your records and Bert Kahn and they left didn't have enough money or something I don't know and that's when I came in with the ladies And that's when I challenged Benny Lye's basket. And they wouldn't let us do it.
That's how far ahead I was for ERA. Well, about what year was that? 1923. Now, they had already moved to Pocahontas Street? Yes, that's when we were. Do you remember about how long they had been to Pocahontas Street? Oh, well, before they came out this way? Well, when they moved to Pocahontas from Cedar Springs. From Cedar Springs? No, I was just, I know when I taught Ms. Abramowitz, that was in 1920, 21. Taught her English so she could become an American citizen. Ms. Lyra, Ms. Andress, Ms. Abramowitz, those are the three that I wanted. There were some others to it. Any other? Well how has your own observance changed over the years?
With what? With generally you know any of the holidays the Jewish holidays. Well I think the congregations are so large. I think it loses its meaningfulness. I'm an individual. I want what I do, I want it in quiet, peaceful surroundings. and one doesn't get it when we have two shows as I call it it's not nice to say the Christians have it three shows sometime on Easter and Mother's Day but I will take my worshiping at home in the privacy of my own home and that's it. What about holidays like Sukkot, Chavuot, Pepe? Well I used to help decorate the Sukkot The confirmation classes used to be 6 8 or 10 or 12 Now they 164 148 I said again they are not meaningful I don know what the children get out of it and I go when my grandchildren were there and some of my dear friend grandchildren or my relatives but just to go I get nothing out of it What was the community like?
You've always been a member of Temple, is that correct? You've grown up in Temple. What was the Jewish community like as you grew up, and can you kind of sketch it through the years? And get some of the, you know, segments as far as the years are concerned. Well, the unfortunate thing, again, I say there's a line distinction, and unfortunately now with intermarriage, I think it is you either marry somebody orthodox in the form, and I'm not one to judge because I think there are cliques and clans if it's in any society, in any religion and I feel it, I felt it through the years, I still feel it.
So what are you going to do about it? It's call it politics, don't call it religion. It's a segment and people are going do what they want and today they are and I have seen the most pies and I have been to the most religious weddings, the Pharisees, the Sherith Israel. Oh they were beautiful. Two years later they're divorced so what is it all about? I can't answer your question. I don't want to and don't ask because I am not one to judge. Well now when you made reference to intermarriage. Are you talking about marriage outside of Jewishness without non-Jewish partners? No, non-Jewish-Jewishness. All these people that just have to be real, real Jewish in two or three years, they're divorced.
And what do you do then? These big weddings aren't like they used to do. Big show who's going to have the most lavish dinner, the most courses. And as far as bar mitzvahs and bat mitzvahs. We have them at Temple, you have the cherishes behind me. I'm sorry. Don't answer. Youth today was all How was it when you were growing up What was a bar mitzvah like at Temple We never had a bar mitzvah My nephew was the first That's my... It was a very simple bar mitzvah. Dr. Lefgood's performed it. There was no splash, no big dinner, no... It was humble and simple. Today things are more lavish but I will say that Temple Emmanuel has Bar Mitzvahs and Bat Mitzvahs every week.
But Temple Emanuel's religious rituals I should say are going back toward Orthodoxism. I can see it, I can feel it every day more, which is beautiful because It's all within. It's within. That's all I can say. Now were there no bar mitzvahs from the time that you, you know, were a child until 1944 then? No. I never did see one or hear one, no. Do you remember what your nephew's bar mitzvah was like? Yes, it was like it was. It was very solemn. It was beautiful. It was the first I had ever seen. Did he use any Hebrew? Yes. Did he use any reading? Yes, he did.
Dr. Leftwood had prepared him, and his mother came from an Orthodox family. It was a long hour, my twin brother's wife. and they wanted him to be by mitzvah and he was. It was beautiful. I have nothing against him, but we had never had it. Now, it's every week there is someone that is by mitzvah, which is beautiful, but each to his own. I don't know what they do in other conversations. How has Temple changed over the years in its services for example I mean you know what was the length of the service that you remember as a child for example when you were going It was the same as it is now to me we have more we have a choir we only had a choir on Irby Street with Dr.
Greenberg there were four in the choir two on a Saturday morning two ladies and two men and two ladies at night but it was the same on South Boulevard but now with the choir of Temple which they do voluntarily and they do a magnificent job and they have a choir director and everything in every in other words it is more dramatic and I have taken non-Jewish friends there and they can't get over that it's as moving as it is rather than just the four people in the choir So I just, I don't know. I think it's beautiful. Of course I don't like the modern music.
I still like the old things. And if that goes for a concert or anything else, I'm not modern. I'm just, I'm not with it. What about Jewish organizations here in Dallas? What are some of them that you remember when you were growing up? What types of organizations? Well the Council of Jewish Women. I was 13 years old. And I have served under every president of Council of Jewish Women. Now Council of Jewish Women started in 19, 13, and 15. And in 19, I was 13 years old at Forest Avenue High School, and they asked for volunteers. What did they do? What was the nature of their activity at that time?
Well, it was not under the council. I worked with the blind, with Eva Cameron and Mrs. Morris Liebman. And like I say, Sarah Sewell, who is then later years, but she was in the gym class in 1923. She had not lost her sight. know how she looked at it. She was private secretary to Arthur Cramer and they had file cabinets stacked each other and they were not attached to the wall and he asked for a letter and she went to get it and the top file cabinet fell on her head and she is totally blind and this the council she she i worked with her through the lighthouse 38 years She was house visitor, people that were blind out of jobs and stuff.
And I was 13 and they asked at Forest Avenue High School, on a Saturday would someone go down to the First Presbyterian Church on Harwood and Young, which was Reverend Anderson's and to the first baby clinic in Dallas and that's where Elsie went. And I diapered the babies and washed their faces and fed their milk. And where I am today for 11 years, the Children's Medical Center is the outgrowth. That was the great, great, great, great grandparent of the Children's Medical Center in Dallas. And that's how long I've done volunteer work in Dallas. I was 13 and then after that when I saw a need I didn't have to be asked.
I went. What was your secular schooling? Be explicit. Oh, did you go to, you went to Forest High School? I went to Forest High School, my secular thing and I took kindergarten training and that was it. I was in New York, I went to the New York School of Social Research. I failed to ask you what grammar school did you go to in Dallas? Columbia Hill School. I was playground director there for two years. After? In the summertime. Yes ma'am, honey, I never stopped. I got paid $20 a month, six days a week, from three to nine. What years? About what years? 1920, 21. That was after you'd gone to school, social work in New York.
And I just, I just, it was people, children. And children have been my life. I worked with cerebral palsy. I worked with Drone Hospital Griffith Children for five years I worked in the baby camp for one year every day including Saturday and Sunday eight to six with incubated babies We never had a blind child. Nothing but galvanized tubs and hot drinks. I can write a book, but it was fun. I was happy. Nobody came and asked me. I just did. May I work here? May I work there? Were you involved with organizations other than the Council of Jewish Women? No. Red Cross during the war.
Bold things. Same thing. I don't like organizations. I don't care who's it is. It's politics. And I'm sorry. I work, but I will not sit there and nitpick who will second the motion and this and take a vote and this. It's politics. Either do or move on. I want progress. I want something to go forward. And again I say, no race, no creed, no nothing. Just a human being. That's not good. Where did you live over the years? Oh wait, let me back up. What civic and cultural organizations, are you a member of any of them now? Yes, I was a member of the symphony for the years, for the inception when Mr.
Chrysler was down at the city hall on Sunday afternoon at 3 o'clock, we'd drive the streetcar. I was a member of the civic community, you know, civic music, never missed a thing. I had to see Papaloa and Gallicurchy and all of those things they were beautiful. Get on a streetcar and walk and rain and everything. Nothing if you want it bad enough you can get it The cultural things I love Museums But when you get to a stage when my husband would get off the road and he was tired symphonies on Monday night. We'd been gone six weeks and we'd go to sleep in the symphony.
So we decided to listen to it at home. But it was Gallicurch or whoever was there. Gluck, Truman Hike, it was just beautiful. About what years were those? Oh that was Sometimes when I was in the high school, my mother and father, they were lovers of this. Only the finest records we bought. And they both had an appreciation. My sister was one, she studied boys. My brother, when I came along, it was what was left, as far as monetary things. But I did well. I'm happily doing it, so it didn't make me different. Where, what were the addresses that you lived at over the years?
I lived in 2811 1909 on Cleveland Street, and then Zay K. Hurst was there, and the Marfilles. We moved on Wendelton Street and the Lopes and the mantelvans and Jewish people. About what clock? That was in 3501 Wendelton Street, I can tell you, every one. In 1900, and then we moved on Mr. Max Rosenfield, built an apartment, first apartment that was new on South Boulevard, two doors from Oakland, 2811. What year? That was in 1925 and 6. And I married in 27. And on Oakland? What years did you live on Wendelkin? Wendelkin Street I lived from until 1900 and I lived two years and a half on homes.
We owned that house and then we owned it on 3501 Wendellton Street until 1926 when Mr Max Rogen vehicle from Newark Park moved to the upstairs 2811 South Boulevard and the Brombergs and the Lawrence Millers and the Betts and Backs and the Henry Brombergs and the Josephs and the Lindsays and the Ayes Chetans and I can tell you the whole street Irb of Marcus and all our neighbors and so forth And then I married and lived at the Irvington down on Pocahontas and Irving, and I just walked up the street to the Pocahontas and got my federation and worked with the 20s, again, Americanization crisis.
Where were the people coming from in those years? They were coming from Russia and Germany. It wasn't the Nazi thing. It wasn't the influx. Then came in the 40s, again it was Americanization when they all came from Germany, Austria, Vienna, Spain, or Holland, Belgium, from the Nazi. I looked like Dr. Ellen Lowe. And I taught 29 families. I went to their house three times a week. I taught them how to buy the ladies what to wear and how to buy everything. The personal things. They didn't know what to ask for. They couldn't speak English. I knew enough. German I could understand. Every word that said in it, my German was horrible.
But anyway, I wouldn't have gone hungry. And the Lindowers and the Freedmans, 29 families. But it wasn't through the Federation. It wasn't through the Council. I don't know who was through. It was me, the family. What's today, the family service. That's right. But it wasn't labeled, you do this, you do that, you take them. took them and showed them what to do, how to buy groceries and so forth. Took them downtown. Under Federation? Well it's like they do now. We didn't have far reach family and stuff, these psychological dope things that they have to work out. Up until what year did you live at the Irvington?
We lived there a year and a half and then we moved on Avondale, in the Catholic Church. In what year do you remember? Yes, it was in 19... I married in 27 and we lived there seven years. We lived in the Irvington from a year. That was 1928. Then we lived seven years. I had a carol there. So it was about 1930? 1930. And then we moved to Holland Park. My mother was living and father there living on Edmonton. We lived on Westway in two apartments. What year? In 1939 we built our house on Arkady in Elm Park. What was the cross street of Arkady?
The cross street at Arkady was Armstrong and Long Island. I lived there in 4411. And then we lived there for 13 years. and then Carol was out of school, college, she was going to SMU, I mean she's gone to Newcombe and SMU, she was engaged to be married 26, 27 years ago. We moved to Greenway Parks, lived there 17 years. 1950, 51, 52. And then here we lived six and a half years. So this is it. About 60, no, it's still 71 you moved here, is that it? We moved here six and a half, it'll be seven years. So it's 71. 71 we moved here.
And I love flowers and yards and I was getting older and my husband was older. after all, 83 will be 84 next month. And I gave up the flowers and I wanted to walk out with him. It's been beautiful. I have no, in retrospect, I have no regrets. It isn't that I'm self-satisfied. I only wish I was 20 years younger. There's so much to do in so little time. It's beautiful. The heritage, the background that we've had, a town of this size was beautiful It still beautiful but it grown too big When you get too old to live and too young to die you just say thank you What was the family structure like over the years?
You mentioned that when your dad came to Tallis, he lived in rooming houses. Do you know if he lived in Jewish rooming houses? Oh yes, oh yes, boarding houses. Boarding houses? Yes, Miss Bradwall, you've heard of that, and Daddy. Before that he lived with the only Jewish boarding house, he had only stayed in Jewish there was a feeling that he belonged I'm sure being in this strange country and my mother lived with her sister Mrs. Rose Mrs. I.E. Rose, he was a... you see before the Jewish Federation organized to get money, you don't know or maybe you do, that they would send somebody down from the New Orleans Archmage And they would send somebody down, up rather, and send somebody down from Colorado for the tubercular home.
And they would send somebody for the Leo Levi. And my uncle was wealthy. He had a men's, manufacturing of men's clothing. And he made all the uniforms for Huntsville Convict. Who was your uncle? I.E. Rose. In Dallas? Yes. He was not a generous man for the public, but he was more than generous where he went up to get. And they would call up and say, Elsa, here's the list. You go to Gerard Dreyfus, Mr. Can, your Uncle I.E. Rose, and Rudolph Liebman, and Gerard and Ruben Pollock and all these people. And I'd go there and I'd say, how about, you know, I'm here with, this is Mrs.
Smith, and she's representing, or whatever her name is, Ms. Horowitz, is representing the Ben Denver thing, or the thing down in New Orleans. That the way they got their money and they always gave me Uncle I and they just had done it Were you happy with that I mean did you feel good about going to your Uncle Ike No, because it was, it put me in a funny position, it put him in a funny position and I realized their position. And so what could I do? He gave where he wanted, when he wanted and how he wanted. and they would say in those days, last year you gave $1,000, what are you going to do this year?
He'd say, right now I don't know what I'm going to do, which was his privilege. He was generous, he was very, very generous. But no one knew where, and this is the type of man he was. But I felt sorry for him. A car for the lady that didn't get the $2,000. What about the family structures over the years? You mentioned that your dad had lived in Jewish boarding homes when he came. What were the structures like family-wise? Did you see a lot of this? What was your family structure in itself? Did your parents live with you when you got married? Oh, well, the... Daddy, we were a close-knit family.
I never spent a night away from home at anybody's house. That wasn't, maybe that was the times, I don't know. I don't know. We were, whatever, we were closely knit. Of course, I felt I was so close. My father was great, big German, broad-shoulder athlete. My brother, my sister, you saw, she's 81 now. And mother was, she was about 5'6", daddy was 6'2". I don't know. We never had any arguments or fussing. Why were you out here last night late and why did you do this last night and why did you do this? There was a right way and a wrong way to do it.
Did you have relatives living with you at any time? No no relatives No no My aunt and uncle Mr and Ms I Rose they lived lived down there Crossrepan Temple In the 1800s right there catacorning from the temple On Irma? No, on South Boulevard. On South Boulevard? That's right. So, I don't know. It was, there was never a conflict. I mean, there was conflicts. We had arguments. Of course, having a twin brother, I thought sorry for sister. She should have wished it had never been born or died when we were young because I was the pistol. I was the one that said let's put the June bugs in her bed tonight in the summertime.
You know those crusted beetles that go around in the summertime, I don't know what the fire chicken is. Oh, just silly thing, wintertime we put sand in her bed just for the devil. We had chickens, we had pigeons, we had rabbits, and we were just as happy as... And my brother, Daddy would say, Lester, when I come home I want the yard cut. He'd run up the street, Nathan Mittenfall, I mean Nathan Manelbaum and Milton Loeb and Elson cut the grass. Daddy said, we cut him. He said, the kid did it. There was a closeness that my brother and I had that I feel and still feel sorry for my sister.
We were born that way. We could never be in the same room of school. I was double promoted in the second grade. I had Bertha Gosling, a Jewish teacher, and the third and fourth grade at Colonial Hill School. school this was all at Cloning Hill I had Rena Rena Crossman which was Jerome Crossman's sister in the sixth grade I had Kornbleth and my Kornbleth sister I mean these are the things that you just grew up with and the teachers understood when it was Passover and when it was this and when it was that but when you got to high school the teachers weren't as tolerant of a Jewish child in the school.
And at that particular time in the 1915, 16, 17, 18, and 19 at Forest Avenue High School Mr. Cawthon was nice, but there was Mr. Millsap. You knew all those teachers. And I went to the first year we were at Bryan High, Dallas High on Bryan Street, and my brother went to Tarot School because my brother was easygoing and the teachers adored him. They'd tell Mama he made zero in this, zero in that, in the third grade and the fourth grade. Mama's Papa said we just send him to Tarot School of Boys which is was the St. Mark's of Dallas only you didn't never see discipline like M.B.
Tarot had in that school that was the tops of tops and that's where my brother got it until he got into Forest High the first year that it was born that it was filled. But Mr. Comstock was not liberal to choose. Every time there was a holiday on Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, in Latin, zero. He'd give you a test that day. May I make it up, Mr. Comstock? No way. Those are the things that I rebelled against. I, of course, couldn't fight. So this was it. But we didn't have any from the North Hill School with Mr. Julius Doitsey. And Mr. Carthorn, he couldn't do it.
Mr. Ushery, don't get me started, honey. I could write a book about all of them. Of course I go there at 7 o in the morning to work in the gymnasium with Mary Bell Smith I mean I had the happiest happiest It was all just lovely I never hated school I loved it I just loved people There was some good in everybody Did they have anything, did the Jewish students have any way of protecting themselves against the professors that would get or teachers that would give them bad grades? No, no, no, and when they got up to North Dallas High School it was worse. And when you got into Helen Park, it stank, because my child was second on it and they changed her grades.
I'm thinking that for sure. And the three teachers at the time told him. And the man that changed her grades, his wife died, was dying of cancer. And it was I who gave the Thanksgiving, made the Thanksgiving dinner and brought it to him and he clothed his little boy for Christmas. He never knew who did it, but he was the man. Thank you.