Errol Hepker
Errol Hepker came from a family with a rich heritage on both sides. His paternal grandfather emigrated from Europe and became a successful trader in what became Rhodesia, where Errol's father was born and grew into a gifted athlete who played rugby for several counties. His mother's father fled Poland, arrived in South Africa uneducated, and rose from selling coffee to miners to become a prominent real estate figure, later serving as a life president of a Johannesburg synagogue. Errol also learned that his maternal grandmother descended from a long line of Polish rabbis. His mother was an actress who performed in London, and his parents married around the start of the war.
Errol grew up in Johannesburg, attended government schools, and was sent to a boarding school two days' train ride away, an experience he later regretted for limiting his social ease. He set out to become a doctor but, after an aptitude test steered him toward commerce, he began a Bachelor of Commerce and eventually entered the life insurance and general insurance industry in the early 1960s, a field he remained in for most of his life aside from a brief venture in carpeting. On June 20, 1960, he met Jennifer, a young woman who had moved into his neighborhood, and knew at once he would marry her; they went on to raise three daughters.
Long dreaming of America, Errol seized an opportunity when a new form of life insurance, universal life, was reshaping the American industry. With experience in the field, he received numerous job offers, and after considering the East Coast, he was drawn to Dallas by a company that pursued him. He and his family immigrated in 1980 and 1981 and became citizens in 1991. In Dallas he worshiped at synagogues including one where Rabbi Cohen served, and he was a founding member when Rabbi Cohen started his own congregation. After stints in Florida and a brief, unhappy return to England, he came home to Dallas for good, cherishing his family, his heritage, and his identity as an American and a Jew.
Full Transcript
good morning we are doing an interview with Gerald healthcare and the purpose of the interview here in the JCC this morning is for the roots abuse project for the Dallas or Jewish Historical Society I'd like to start if I may with asking you to tell me as much as you possibly can about the history of your grandparents and where they came from in Europe or Russia prior to the experience in South Africa with pleasure my on my dad's side my grandfather came from Goulding and my grandmother came from Riga that married in 1910 July 1910 permanent when I got married my dad gave me the
wedding ring that's in jail to JH I married Jennifer Leslie and I'm Julia said below you call me hero so they can to South Africa Oh in about nineteen twenty to twenty to twenty-five my grandfather was a white traders they called he used to go into matter Billy land and trade with the matter Billy and then led with sisal John Rhodes he led the roads call him back into what became Rhodesia which was a turbulent and they were very very successful in the love of a sad a business called Rhodesia tournaments there are a lot of stories about him at good store reason I wasn't
there but good stories on the Annette that I guess that's enough on that side of the family the other side of the family with the Berman's might my grandfather my mother's father ran the gauntlet out of Poland got into South Africa was uneducated as a matter of fact he wrote his final school exams which we call them a cricket he was sitting next to his older son he believed in the education he ultimately from selling coffee to minors became one of the biggest real estate tycoons in South Africa we always thought it was a wonderful family terrific family to come from stop solid stock and
then we found out many years later the quality of the family came from his wife it was a very quiet quiet woman who comes from a long long line of Polish rewarded by the name of repair the rabbi okay of the rabbi belts that's my heritage one would think I'd be more fruit so this FL service even yes yes look if there's something in here I give you my crazy woman I know I'm good but I'm not locking up a no big deal it will come out on time so this is that sufficient for you I mean it's a yeah the rich background the first
the first engraved image of a Jewish rabbi was that of my great-great grandfather when he was brilliant bills so then what point did his grandparents counts yourself up well my grandfather must have come on my mother's side must have come in the to the very early nineteen hundreds 19 1910 1915 he married my grandmother was 18 years of age she came from South Africa she was born in South Africa she was born in a place called ladysmith in the Cape there two ladies month in South Africa towns cities of ladies and they married she was 18 she married because he was a finding his feet
financially and she thought that there was a good idea to help her family that a small family she was one of 10 she was the eldest of 10 so she figured if she married this guy he helped and he did I mean that that it was a wonderful marriage like she had four children four five five five sorry I called council good farm in the financial business I called countertop and so then tell me about your parents my dad was born in Rhodesia was the first generation of bulla where residents to be born he was a phenomenal athlete he finished up playing four counties rugby
he was a weekly hoarding played an employee played Rhodesia he loved the athletic undertakings he was a the middle son was a daughter of sudden that my dad moved to jet South Africa Johannesburg eventually after his father passed away and there he met my mother when he met my mother he had happened to see her photograph on the dressing bedside table of his best friend who was dating her at the time and they were actually engaged and he saw the picture said is that your future wife and his Richard yes it is oh my god she's got a very big mouth because my mother did
have a big smiles my mother was an actress and she cheated her great achievement was acting in London number one player I said open to the region was Judgment Day where she acted opposite Cooper claimed Sir Laurence Olivier so that was all so those are the good things I've got uncle's who are good move in of course you're not just Jewish so how did your father get your mom away from this other guy well they meant and this was his best buddy and they met and the funny thing is this that his best friend Norman took a liking to the girl that my dad was
taking out at the park my mother and her fiance broke off and my dad and mom met they married in nineteen forty nineteen nineteen thirty nine nineteen forty year in the wall my mother always said it was a small wedding she would like to have a huge wedding but because of the ward was very small and they they were married together for I think I 45 years of my dad passed away he had cancer my moment a broader from South Africa and she lived here for about 15 years and she passed away in 2003 2004 2004 so how many children were in your family and
you just be an assistant who does live in nervous so tell me about your childhood pennant in South Africa what type of the school initially I went to the same schools and most people they call them government schools these are schools that we have here like the regular state-run school but they were run by the government and I had a very interesting and really comfortable early youth life at school which are different to the United States of junior school and seniors who is no middle circle and I was okay in athletic undertakings of pursuits in junior school and then was sent away to audience room
because my mother thought that was very fashionable and I regret that all my life we're at the celery i went to grave stone which is a a city about two days train ride from Johannesburg and my family I was there for five years I did all my school in there I developed some of their while i was in school that I pursued and I wasn't happy i never did like cutting away i didn't think it was an old-fashioned thing when there were those schools of the city you looked at you send your children away my mother seemed to feel that would give me the best
possible education and background will it deprived me somewhat of the ability to have relationships with people I didn't know how to get der exhibition with with girls because it was an all boys school and there was a bit tough and that's something I do regret but I had no control over that so how old were you when you finished out that I was just 18 just turned 18 an unfinished and that was the point at which you were going with the college with the University and began pursuing a degree in commerce actually wanted to be a doctor which then I could have found a nice
Jewish girl but I wanted to be a doctor and I did a stupid thing I took an aptitude test and they said no you are really designed to be in the commercial world so I went to do a Bachelor of Commerce when I was hearing the close of my education I took a summer job and the unfortunate miss truth hit me between the eyes which was what are you doing taking money from your parents code on your own look how easy it is so I could college and I did some night school but I went into the life insurance industry and the regular general insurance
industry in the early 60s and I've been in that field ever since any except for a brief period that I I had one of the well-known air called an area carpet Walter warm up a fitting outlets in Johannesburg we used to supply Johannesburg durban Cape Town it was was good until I took on apartment and I went back to the life insurance financial field when you were a child in South Africa did you have an opportunity to become involved in Jewish youth groups you know for some strange reason given the fact that my grandfather was such a custody with such an important figure hid in
the Jewish community my mother's father who had the first billion of what was in the berea shul in his own living room who was a life president but mother and an attitude of don't forget the war was on my mother had an attitude of don't make too much noise about being at you and that sort of left me with mixed feelings about her logging we were Orthodox but we didn't keep kosher out of an orthodox life what was an actress she was more concerned about how the appearances were I mean it's just her way and we didn't we didn't have a very fruit Jewish life
we certainly didn't keep kosher and there's a lot of things I must have meant that whatever Jewish attitude i have today is essentially self-taught I'm but that one day and I said I'd be married nothing for months i said to my wife Jennifer you know what happens when they we are children I will bring them up so I started going to shoot on friday night so beta dirt because you know and so therefore the Friday nights you can't get into a shoe said it that morning you can't find a minion that's a joke but it's really everybody goes right at night not everybody goes Saturday
so you finished so you finish the schooling and you went on to go into the insurance world at some point you met your wife and how did that happen and had don't forget what I told you was that I was in a boys who yes and when I got out of that situation I didn't know what you did really with girls I mean people my body's you have to interact I really had little experience so I thought that there were safety and baptism I used to slip girls over a weekend four or five you know I others I was a wild I was about as
I I mean it was like I was let out of a cage and we lived in a neighborhood that was relatively new and my mom told me that this family had moved in down the road this was on jun the twentieth nineteen sixty precisely I went down to these people's house apparently I knew the girl because we took swimming lessons together when we were 4 years old I'd never clear recollection of that event but that what I was told so we doubt to see her welcome to the neighborhood and this little person came in wearing a pink suit of black hair or doodle done and
I looked at him I said to you I'm going to marry and we'd be married now 49 years that that's that little bit busy man yes comeback story and you subsequently had had children we had three girls we have three girls god bless all of it and America I think that's a picture of what other but then I didn't know you know that changed their hair and stuff and it's a picture yup one lives in Florida got two little daughters beautiful children ever I don't think they eat because they're very very good I think they start then we have in Dallas where my oldest grandson
as we start que ahora 23 years old he's the girls looked up the day he was born we put a Dallas Cowboy football in the crib and he's been a fanatic ever since I mean in athletic why's he is a genius about anything else that's not important he has a sister is 19 now is in college in Arkansas and then I have two little ones who won still here around the corner of the JCC two little ones five and six years old fondants five and six on right now from 23 to foreign so tell me about your decision to leave South Africa at what point
you made that decision and what worthy over what would what were the reasons for that we had win but then nobody said that I was normal I used to lie in the dorm and I never be the good sleeper used to watch the moonlight on the ceiling weird weird but true story what's the moonlight of the ceiling and think to myself of the day that I would come to America and become a success go west my son and from that early a job when I was 14 13 and I had that desire Jennifer I got married we were very happy we happy like most thank
God happy couples we had our differences from time to time I was always right by the way but after 17 years of married life friends of ours came over it was a Christmas Day in South Africa that summer we we had a big piece of property we were sitting under a palm tree and the friend of mine said you know what we're going to live in America I said really I've always wanted to live in America and Jennifer turned to me said so did I said but you live there already she said but I've always wanted to go back can you believe we'd be married
for that period of fun I had no idea she was willing to go back and bull we went it was a dream to come to America the land of opportunity how did you pick Dallas Dallas bit mean at the time that I came it was nineteen eighty the United States began a different form of life insurance this type of life insurance was developed by a dyslexic accountant in South Africa and took the world of the implicit in the industry worldwide by storm America held off because of the huge profits that were made in the life insurance in up to that point and they had to
change that were there were four the bases interchange but I had experience in this area what total I from strangers called universal life as opposed to home life universal was the common term and the American Consul said well it would help if i had a job offer so i wrote to 18 companies and obviously occur because of my track record i got job offers and i thought i'd like to live on the east coast i got a great opportunity had a great opportunity in boston but we were there in winter and wasn't that pleasant by the way i drove from New York to Boston and
was stopped they had the heaviest snowstorm in history and the cop said to me how could you be on the roads and these conditions everybody is warned to stay at home I said I don't have a choice I've got to go to Boston he said where you from ice in South Africa how he said you've had a lot of experience in those conditions carry on I never seen snow my life you see you then true story anyway we went to Boston we went to several other eastern seaboard sillies and I kind of wanted to go to Virginia but I was keeping it for lost and
a group from Dallas were pursuing me they heard I was coming of that border company in South Africa and I had a relatively was with that company in South Africa mentioned to them that I was immigrating and they literally forced me to come heaven into in dells I was going to come on my own until a friend of one that same friends who said in our yard of God and decided to come to America they said to me you going to dallas what if you like it so I said okay we packed everything every ball of us up we left New York and we came
to Dallas to check it out we actually finished up in Arlington we thought that was Dallas we had no idea and the booking was done by relative of mine who what never met who was a travel agent in the Bronx and we arrived here my eldest daughter looked around and this desolate goes with the desolate scenery but there was no snow she says I like it here and Dallas found me I didn't find out the economy here was good the rest of the Korean 1980 wasn't so good but so what what what one of your did you move here what's what life well we actually
got citizenship in 91 no but I mean what I'm curious because you moved here in 1980 dodgy went back to shove their phone so you didn't come for the for the heat wave of 1980 miss that we missed the key to every with you know the investigating I felt it was a good warm but I mean we're embedded what did I know we were here we heard about it we were in dallas and we were here briefly with that to south africa because of this insurance thing i had 18 job offers which was very helpful for immigration and the consulate the console said look you've
come you're not going back and I said but hey we haven't sold a house we've made no arrangements that what you told us to do and we were given a unique possible to go back to South Africa and back up so we finished up coming 1981 about the middle of the year just before not taken yeah when two didn't know assure i went to friends of mine told me Big South African community it's called the fear it uh-huh and that's where I went yes isolated is then we went to sheriff and then I wandered around that I went back to fear it I almost joined
rabbi rode I went to ferret of a kind of very close friend of rabbi Cohen was the rabbi there at the time then we went to live in Florida because that was my dream I semi-retired we to live up Florida where a beautiful house on the water west coast and joined the shul there the rabbi and I Jennifer family were very still very close friends fact they claim lost summer stayed in our home came back to Dallas didn't want to a while I was in Florida rabbi Cohen separated as you know from to Faraday has started his own Shubin I was a founding member with
him we came back to Dallas I hadn't teach me I've got injured on the fishing boat in Alaska and I couldn't climb up the stairs anymore in Florida no useless me so we came back home although we have a daughter on the east coast in Miami but we've got to Lourdes us yet and four grandchildren survey out waited for the four children parents and grandchildren in Florida so your bad homes down back as we say I back up we're not moving again I don't have a got the cash I mean I'm shipping stuff as I said from South Africa what I brought I didn't need
the good stuff that I need a lift you see you don't know these things was there anything you miss about South Africa yes the cost i'm beth i used to bear the dogs in ah i must say that but what did not needed here for I needed I needed it do I myself every have never been better all the South Africa but I think almost every one of the feedback I was told by a friend who came originally from Czechoslovakia and he got away during the water England he said to me don't go back for several years because if you do you may have regret
so that you won't return to America so I made it my business not to go back however here's the strange story because of the success in the industry and because I began an association and relationship with banks in South Africa who used our expertise my partners of mine to give advice to them important clients I was approached at a meeting in dallas which was an international meeting they had for the industry I was approached by Englishmen backers and insurance people to quit the stupidity living in dallas and go to England where up along and they literally put economy they found me every day on it
sounds like I was informed that wasn't important I just had a little bit of expertise but they pestered me and eventually I said ok and after 23 on a short period of time living in Dallas we pack everything up and we went to England we bought a house in London and I mean mine I don't know why I did it I felt I had to do it and literally that they are not there I realized listen I own Polonia and when I told the family my sister was still in so there going home that's it back to South Africa's in Balcombe i'm going to dallas
so we went back to Dallas we lost it in England six months 17 days five and a half hours was too long you can't go from here to there you can go from there to here you could go from South Africa to England and the South Africans from a sugar they were more English than the English there were busy drinking tea the British had smoked already they were drinking coffee and that made like they were more British than for British I couldn't stand it I came home these are the people that I love so tell me keratin in dallas center you're very busy with your
your business are you involved in any other community activities here sadly no I do a little bit of things for the shoe on occasion as a sales on the board of one of the shoes no longer i took my turn let's put it that way it wasn't the vote there for any reason but no I'm not a lazy and I'm old and I've got three new children three grey hound dogs who I love and adore and you know what I'd rather sit at home with Jennifer my wife and the dogs I'm actually be sure that I've got the three dots of the human I've got
three cats and we have a call so it's of an injury in my house and we stay home with very very rarely go out we're lazy we try to do a little bit here and there but not to the extent that and sometimes feel guilty i do i think i should do more for the community i work and i watch television you're doing what makes you happy I'm doing whatever happy I got usually fight like crazy I'm happy be with her that's what counts so I wouldn't even trade my dogs although there's a good job sometime yeah they don't talk back let's step back a
moment in time when you when you first came to Dallas I know you you knew a couple of people here you probably had a couple of South Africans that you knew but in terms of the general community in Dallas how how was there your adjustment how did you find them were they were the people welcoming here to you it was the exception of one individual who for whatever reason when he saw me that first Parmenter farad he knew who I wasn't you were I did he literally shunned me with the exception of this individual I had the most pleasant experience with South Africans imaginable in
those days we were a tight-knit community we basically warn you one another from my point of view we would have done for each other to whatever extent it took to help each other it was a wonderful relationship between the South African people in my bailiwick in my area of my age when we came in the early terrific now you've got over the years such a tremendous influx you know there's something I've never heard of people what about the outside of the south african community doesn't the Jewish community in general how did you find the welcome how everybody welcomed I mean there was that was interests
as expected I mean I didn't expect any different it was to me we would we were I don't know if anybody had a different experience but we were welcomed with open arms there was just no question that people were proud to hear they were proud to be Americans and hear that the South African Community chose to come a live in America and particularly to come live in Dallas so the Jewish people that we met and the non-jewish people who met were very very helpful and proud that we chose to do this whether any particular challenges in your face and language was a challenge we spoke
a little bit of a different language to be understood expressions we use and they look at me blankly or misunderstand I'm trying to think of what anything is I knew you'd say that oh my god maybe something will come to me let's keep talking oh there's one that means it give me the exactly opposite the way what we say in South Africa and in England unless you say then I I'll give you jumped in oh that's okay we'll come to it are there any particular traditions that you've brought with you from South Africa that might be different from what we have here not that I
know of what we are I still get a shoe Friday nights I've done fearing off and go on us saturday rabbi Cohen often said what I said you can't get a seat on a Friday night South Africa it was the way I was no I don't think I don't think that we need special traditions know what about fields I food Oh her bath waters would you think about built on which Americans called journey oh then you could kill for that if you have a source of it here I have a source is a sourcing in South Carolina which but it's you know Quran way to
manage to lose up so I don't to start all over again and I used to make my own only thing I used to enjoy it wet so by the time it was ready I eat the door so I didn't have a very caring person but when it came to built on I've give too many people why don't you make it anymore it was a hassle first of all my machinery was 220 220 volt 240 volt account remember what the South African was DC as opposed to IC and southern priors of the stuff up outside to unplug the dryer in the laundry room in then you
know the priors now the washer was and use that clock because that is a 242 do remember so it was an inconvenience to my wife you might get biltong again I put a drive the wrong tree well built on cops first I'm missing I do mr. the book yeah I remember I've had it once because there was a young man who unfortunately passed away early way too early in his life he used to make I did coach outcome yeah Gordon under of South Africans the way they still make that I don't have a connection any other any other things that you'd like to share with us about your family life your things that you can remember these are important to you think that you'd like your children to know about your experiences I'd like my children to have a better grasp of our family heritage which I only enjoyed and recognized later in
life it was my dad used to speak with pride about his parents my mother spoke with pride about her appearance and alluded to a history I would like my children to recognize their roots recognize their roots Morris Jews then as South Africans there are Americans and this is where their own allegiance but I'd like them to have a better handle on what their heritage is how do you think they're going able to gather certain members of the family I've got a big family live in Atlanta who more investigators of the family history they could get it from them have you talked with it yeah yeah
I'm now having a bat mitzvah my granddaughter in Florida and suddenly that door to the middle daughter is developing a need to know more about the history at this point my eldest daughter I don't think it bothers she doesn't care it's not an important issue in her life she is most wonderful human being but these are more important things in her life which I think it said because I think if it passed on not only the family history in Europe but the family history and South Africa the European i think is more important but just as if i had more bus is important South Africa
not I think she cares much my middle daughter as I says add a little bit of interest my baby who's worked at the JCC she I think maybe the one who would carry on that connection almost I think from what you said if you've got the connection to the connection to the bell sorta see them that's certainly a point of various a very significant point the children should learn about and the grandchildren and should learn about I mean that's I think you know if you can't force anybody to do anything no but at some point now that you've at least brought that to their attention
I hope I hope because it's something that is important know your roots know your roots and i hope i hope so I mean we're lucky we've got a good life at isn't it hasn't been easy what I have done better photo bait in South Africa who knows my colleagues were very successful who knows some South Africans have come here and be phenomenally successful and all power to them and good for them fact is I'm happy here I wouldn't go anywhere else and it's too late anyway I mean if ever I thought of going anywhere ever it would be is rather simply not back to South
Africa well I think you've certainly established your ribs here at this point this is my country this is my country's my chosen country you know you become an American you swear allegiance to the flag you feel a feeling towards the country that is more i would say powerful for you for whatever better word then be born accidentally into the environment into this nation we know how covered was to be we had to go through all sorts of things to become an American citizen we really had to go through a great deal it wasn't late at our feet and and the law testing that we did
to prove that we could write and read those were nonsensical an unnecessary but when you have any presence there will be new the presidents were we were educated in a very history which I think was very important and Americans weren't I didn't know that's true yeah so we happy we had the old toad change I wouldn't change there's some things I'd like to do over but then I come to two American certainly not come to dallas I just wish I'm hoping there's supposed to be a big tsunami that they predicted and then Dennis would be at the seaside resort now really there was going to
be a December last year everything was the pity was Florida was going underwater this was going to be on the path of well well I get my boat until me oh well hopefully that won't happen oh I missed the water I'd like to be about how do you do hopefully you'll have opportunities still going I've been able to put it one thing the words are the things that we used to sell my goodness I can't think they did several expressions oh my how that you pronounce above you differently than I did okay yeah well I quote my one grandmother ghuggi because my eldest cousin the
first board gave a name grandma because of that sort of eldest grandson gave the name we don't we didn't you see I like I said my mother was very anglicized and so we didn't use bobby and Sadie or anything like we don't know we didn't we were English and that was a regret that was about that is nothing to do with being in America now and is there a great I'd like to be more Jewish you still have the opportunity you're an adult learner you you have the opportunity to study and please God you'll take the opportunity when you whether you choose to yep wellness
life I still like to read and be informed about the history of my country i watch these things on TV history channel learn about the United States thinks that happen how they happened try to determine if there's an answer for why they happened because truthfully I feel very strongly I've never been back to South Africa what for this is my country and that's where that's where I focus any attention on learning Jewish learning I'm proud to be a Jew but to God studying over or I would be I would file I would find I you're a sweetheart what are you kidding me no you would
fail you you started you start at a level that's comfortable for you and go from there don't say never and then 144 they can look down and say Schmendrick what do you do what do you do you should have done this years ago yes I mean why i said i promise you i know a lot of men your age who are starting at a level that's comfortable for them with rabbis who accept the level that oh I'm sure I mean I have a few friends who were rabbis who are closed and i'm quite certain that they'd be delighted if they don't give me their very
best assistance in pursuing something and it knows like you say we those movies that's a tragedy full face that we are the last generation that has any yiddish knowledge the language is dead after we go the Yiddish accent is God when this generation goes and that wasn't the most beautiful register kept the juice together in Europe during the war when they were being annihilated and murdered to me that's my opinion that was the Yiddish that was the glue that kept us together and who speaks Yiddish today now where did I learn to speak English that's a good question you tell me oh yes by Borbon
my grandmother grandma who was born in ladysmith cape couldn't speak a word of utich because she had brought up in south africa parents spoke but they consisted they spoke english or free calls to educate the children so she didn't speak but she hired a driver so that was a virus and he says to me one day comes the interstate i sent in what he said don't you speak Yiddish he says to me it is didn't your mama teach you to speak she said grandma doesn't speak Yiddish she knows from a shelter that's all she knows which is excuse me I don't understand so he then
led private taught me all the guinea shot you that because he used to drive a horse of cod4 what they called a bag and bottle man who used to drive his horses court through suburbia in Johannesburg shouting bags and bottles and now this blackguard becomes driver and he progressed become an automobile driver my grandmother took him on and he taught me to speak Yiddish that little when I learned that heritage is gone yet is just finished with when we go it's over which is a terrible shame i think it's a it's a it's like latin who's be led to that he dishes god it's a
wonderful it's descriptive it's so descriptive that you can't say in yiddish what is what you can describe a nitish a shana matin I mean we even we first time but tongue good gosh but what you think this very good very nice in Britain South Africa liquor which provides me you know there's a restaurant here called lenka South African started a restaurant where it's on president road at yourself of frankford had called liquor because liquor is good great terrific i'll have to fire oh yes it's up there it's on the east side of President just for Frankfurt next to cook line & sinker there may be
something fair to cancel I'll try it do they know why do they have typical South Africa it's it is yes yes yes it is okay as long as I Africans help them in preparation which makes it a little more authentic and some of the stuff is well for anybody's taste to die for we be there with neighbors by what maybe I would she's into deserts I beg look like a my dessert person I've ever I really don't i'm going to put it on my put it on your hit list okay i look at this you missed you but i do this that's about it that's
right I still can't think of a better regret this you'll call me later we've been talking for you you're terrific what I want at any I could have been speaking to somebody else something I would never do had the same feeling of relaxation well you can I could breathe I believe a bit this has been a wonderful interview I really appreciate you taking think so yeah I appreciate you taking your time this morning it was wonderfully she is wonderful day and thank you getting your story and we promise we'll send you a copy of the tape my father would be proud your mother would be
proud wonderful thank thank you sometimes we should you