Ervin Donsky
Ervin Donsky was born in Dallas in 1916, the youngest of nine children in a family of four boys and five girls. His parents came from Poland, his father settling in New York after arriving through Ellis Island, and his mother reaching Dallas by way of Galveston in the late 1890s, drawn by sisters already living in the city. His father worked in the transfer business, moving fruit from railroad cars to markets by horse and wagon, and later delivered ice and sold fish. The family first lived on Caroline Street in North Dallas, a neighborhood nicknamed Goose Valley or Frog Town, then moved to Sanger Avenue in South Dallas around 1920.
Donsky grew up in a very religious, strictly kosher home where Yiddish was spoken and every Jewish holiday was observed. He attended Hebrew school four afternoons a week from about age six to fourteen, was bar mitzvahed at Congregation Shearith Israel (referred to in the transcript as Godesachem or Guttasachem), and graduated from Forest Avenue High School in 1935. Unable to afford college, he worked from a young age selling programs and refreshments at football games and was active in AZA, especially in basketball tournaments that drew Jewish teams from cities across Texas. He worked in his brother-in-law's printing business and later entered the jewelry trade, running a store in Brownwood, Texas, before returning to Dallas in 1948 to give his children a proper Jewish education.
In June 1949 Donsky founded Sterling Wholesale Jewelers, growing it from a small space into a large operation with many employees who knew him as Mr. D. His wife worked alongside him as a key part of the business. He became deeply involved in the Dallas Jewish community, serving as general campaign chairman of the Federation, as a leader and president at Golden Acres, and as a driving force, with Victor Richmond, behind the capital fund drive that built the first Jewish Community Center building in Dallas. He helped establish the Solomon Schechter day school (Anne and Nate Levine Academy) through substantial personal gifts and fundraising, and helped start Congregation Beth Torah. A longtime member of Shearith Israel and Tiferet Israel, and a devoted seller of Israel bonds, he took pride in a lifetime of giving to and raising money for nearly every Jewish cause in Dallas.
Full Transcript
and I'm sitting with Irvin Donsky it is August the 15th 1993 and we are going to be talking about Mr. Donsky's family and how his personal history in Dallas all right this is Ginger do Jacobs speaking how do you like to be called well I've been called urban I've been called mr. dansky and my most popular name is mr. D because having so many employees being involved with sterling starting in 1949 and having hundreds of employees I think mr. D became a well-known figure and And everybody called me Mr. D. What is your home address? My home address is 5630 Yolanda Circle. Now, are you the first generation to come to Dallas?
I was born in Dallas. And what about your parents? Parents were born in Poland. Okay. Do you know the city? I don't know. The city, it's, I'll tell you the name of the city, it's on the tip of my tongue, and it's outside of Russia, and it is called Krastapolia. That's your mother. My mother came from there, and another town called Suwaki. Okay. Do you know what year your parents happened to come to the United States? Well, my father came much earlier than my mother. He came to New York City. My mother, I think, came to Dallas, if I'm not mistaken, in 1895. Do you know how they got to Dallas?
My mother came by Galveston. My father came by Ellis Island much earlier. Do you know why or how is it your mother came to Dallas? She had some sisters here. And her sisters were? We already here There was a Miss Simonson and a Weiner and Robinson She had four girls She was the youngest of the four And how is it she left Poland How she left She left the only one where you could leave No, why was it? What was the reason that she left? The reason she left? One of the things over there were very rough, as you probably know. The Russian army was a threat to the men and therefore most all the Jews over were one who come to America.
And she was lucky to get out. And about what year was this? 18... 1890. She came in 99. I think it was late, late 90, maybe around 1898, 99. Your father, what was his trade? Well, he was in the transfer business. And do you know how? His main business was transferring fruit. That's before they had the big wagons here, or the big trucks in those days when he first started. He transferred the troops from the railroad cars to the different wholesale, to the markets, to distribute the fruits. Do you know what brought him to Dallas? Well, I think what brought him to Dallas is New York, as you probably know, was so overcrowded, just overcrowded.
and that's why they start bringing in the immigrants to Galveston, which is one of the best natural harbors in the country. Next to New York, I would say, was the second best harbor. And you hear so much about what's going on down in Texas, you want to come where there was more opportunity. Did he stay in the transfer business when he came to Texas? Yes, that's where he was in Dallas, the transfer business. Where did they, or what part of the city did he settle in? We settled in what they called North Dallas. They had a nickname for North Dallas called Goose Valley, some people called it.
Other people called it Frog Town. But it was on Caroline Street, only about a mile and a half from the heart of Dallas, downtown Dallas. About what year did he come? Or did they settle? What year did he come to Dallas? Mm-hmm. I think he came in the late 1890s. Mm-hmm. What was life like growing up or when you were a child in Goose Valley Well I didn have too much experience there because we moved to South Dallas which was the better part of Dallas when I was four years of age We moved on Sanger Avenue, 1501 Sanger Avenue. And what year would that have been?
That would have been in 1920. Did you have a Jewish school at that point in time? Was there a religious school? What kind of Jewish education did you have? Well, a few years later, they go to Salem. I bought a house on the corner of Forrest in Wendelkin, and I went to religious school there. Hebrew school, I should say. Now, was it only Hebrew school, or did you go on a Sunday morning? I went on Friday night and on Saturday with my parents. Friday night with my father, Saturday morning with my mother and father to the services there. and on the holidays it wasn't big enough they rented a building over there off of Pennsylvania Avenue I'm trying to think of the name of the street where they had the holiday services which was a larger place Was it after school?
What type of arrangement was it? Afternoon Afternoon of Hebrew school How many days a week? Four days a week Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. And what, did you have different subjects, or did you just learn? Strictly Hebrew, reading Hebrew. Okay. How far, do you know how long far the classes went? Well, I went to the Hebrew school from the time I was about six years old until I was about 14. So I went a pretty good number of years. What did your curriculum include? It was strictly Hebrew. reading Hebrew. And reading from the, later on we read from the Bible, some of the chapters in there, studying it.
Did you translate it to English, or did they explain it? No, unfortunately the rabbi, Brumboist, which was a rabbi, spoke very little English at that time. In fact, I learned a few Akashas. I was the youngest of four children, and I learned the translation of it in Jewish. Okay. You speak Yiddish in the home? Yeah. My mother and father spoke here to Charlotte Times so I picked it up naturally What about the rest of the kids The rest of my friends the rest of the family Family and then also children Well I was the youngest of nine children at home Okay. You got it? Yep.
Okay. What was your bar mitzvah like? My bar mitzvah? I was supposed to have a bar mitzvah on the most holy day of the year at Yom Kippur because I was born on the area of Yom Kippur. but that was almost impossible to do so I had it whatever it was a week earlier or a week later whatever it was had my bar mitzvah at the building of Shachem. Did you do a speech? What was it like? It was I would say similar to what it was today. I did the whole half tour and I gave a speech and this was what most of the kids did if they were qualified.
I think I did fairly good. So I went to the shill every Saturday. So I learned Hebrew pretty good. Reading Hebrew, I mean. What kind of celebration was there after? Well, afterwards we had food, just like we would have today. They had an upstairs reception room at the synagogue, and that's where they had served the food. Who prepared the food? Well, I think my mother did a lot of it, and some of her friends helped her. Did they have a kitchen in the show? Oh, yeah, they had a kitchen. Okay. A second floor. Okay. What about grammar school? Well, when I was started in Cedar Lawn Grammar School, which was about a block from here, it was actually on Irby Street, and it backed up to Home Street, a block away from here.
here and when I was in the second, when I went through the first grade they closed that school and I had to go to colonial school on Peabody and Wendelkin. I didn't like that because I only had a block away now. I had to go about eight, ten blocks. Were there many Jewish children in your class? Many judges in my class? Oh, I would say 10% probably. How big was the class? Thirty-five students, I'd estimate. Not small. Not real big, but not small. What about in your Hebrew school training? Were there a lot of kids that went to Hebrew school? In my class? Maybe eight in my class, the most.
Mostly all boys. Did the girls get any kind of Hebrew education? Yeah, some of them did. Did they go to the same classes as the boys? They didn't have that many girls going, but they went. What about... They only had a couple of classrooms. When I quit going to Hebrew school is when they built the Hercel High of the building adjacent to the... That wasn't built when I went, but they built it later. Right. Then they had a lot of classes. Mm-hmm. So they weren't able to do what they would like to do in the original building they built. Mm-hmm. And all of the classes were contained in that?
The Ligitazachem building, is that correct? The original they were, but when they built the Herzl Heiko, they had many additional classrooms available. What about high school? Where did you go to high school? Forest Avenue High School. I graduated from there in 1935. What about the Jewish population of Forest High? The Jewish population of Forest High, since Dallas at the time when I graduated, it probably had only about 10,000 Jews I estimate and most of them lived in South Dallas. I would say it was close to 10% Jewish. What about college? Did you go to college? No I couldn't afford to go to college. Only I'd say less than 2% of the graduating class went to college.
That's unbelievable compared to today. Did they stay in Dallas to go to college? No they went to different places. Were there any special experiences you remember during your school days? What special experiences? Well, when I was about six years old, my brother Nathan, the oldest, well he wasn't the oldest family, he was the dean of the Odonski family, second oldest. He was the second oldest boys, four boys and five girls. It took me to the football game to sell programs and I started selling And from then on I worked at the football games when we were here And made pretty good money going to the football games Or working at the football games So I started off pretty young.
Was that the usual? Was that the usual? Mm-hmm. Not particular, but all my brother, my brother Honey, who's five years older than I, and Nathan, they always worked at the baseball and football games. So he started me off. How did it work? Would you buy papers from someone and then charge more at the football game? In the football game, I sold programs and we also sold cold drinks. And you bought them. I can tell you what they were. You paid a dollar for a dozen cold drinks and you sold them for $1.20. So you made 20 cents on a dozen drinks. And if you sold them, you went back and got more.
If you're down to one or two drinks. That's the way they worked it. They had peanuts the same price. If you want to say, I sold peanuts there, sold cold drinks there, I even sold Eskimo pies there. All worked the same way. They had Eskimo pies. Everything was a dime. That's right. Later on they had hot dogs and they sold for 15 cents instead of a dime. Where were the games played? Well, the first game I worked at was in the old, before they built the Cotton Bowl. It was an old football stadium that held about 20,000 people at Fair Park, and then they built the Cotton Bowl later.
I think the Cotton Bowl was built in the, about, I would say, in the early 1930s. And it held 48,000 people, it was the original bowl. What about Jewish social groups? What kind of Jewish social groups? Well, at the time when I grew up, got a little older, I became a member of AZA and most of the activity we had was playing basketball at the old Pocahontas Center. And I loved basketball and I played there. I played there at least two or three times a week. And we had later on, we had dances and everything by ADA and social affairs And you got to remember it was still a small Jewish population What about the center of activities generally What kind of activities were around the Jewish Community Center during the studies Well they had a few dances upstairs there.
It was old, broken down, but then they had a second floor. And mostly basketball was there. And that was about it. Then every so often AZA would sponsor a dash and rent one of the hotel rooms and they went over pretty good. What about league play? There were a lot of trophies in those cases. Well, we had basketball. Every year there was a tournament here in Dallas. There was one in Houston. The biggest one in Houston and Dallas was probably the second biggest one. And we were fortunate later in life to get the Fair Park at four or five basketball courts in the automobile building, and we were able to get that for the tournaments where we played them there.
But only for tournaments that let us have it, and we played the games there for the basketball tournaments. Who were the participants in the tournaments? Well, we had four or five teams, five or six teams from Dallas, from Houston, from Waco, San Tone, Fort Worth, those primarily the main, the key places they came from. Were they business sponsored teams? The only business sponsored team I know of was one of the best teams from Houston was sponsored by a fellow by the name of Sig Frush. He was in a fruit business. And he paid for the uniforms and some of the expenses that come here. That was the only one that was sponsored.
Were they all Jewish teams? All Jewish teams. What about Jewish holidays? How do you celebrate them? Well, I've always celebrated all the Jewish holidays. When I went to school, every Jewish holidays I stayed out of school. And not only Rosh Hashanah and Yen Kippur, I'm talking about Sukkot and Passover. I didn't go to school on those holidays. My mother was very religious. Was that the usual as you were growing up with a lot of Jewish families? Some, yes, but not across the board, no. As you probably know, in the Reform elements it's entirely different. They only celebrate one day of Rosh Hashanah. They don't have a second day.
You kept kosher in the home. Oh, very kosher. My mother was very religious. Were you expected to keep kosher when you went out or could you eat at a friend house Well no I ate out But my mother was very religious It a whole much strictly kosher 100%, not 90%. What about the kids as they grew up and married? You talking my family? Mm-hmm, your family. Well, some of them kept kosher. When I first got married, I kept kosher because I was accustomed to it from my mother. And I think when Ada got married, she kept kosher, and I think the Frida kept kosher. The rest of them, I don't think, kept kosher.
What about the observance of holidays? All my family observed the holidays and went to the synagogue for the holidays. And we had the seders here at the house, two seders every Passover. Were they in Hebrew? Well, no. The reading was in Hebrew. We did some translation in English. Does that still remain today as it was? Today it's much more in English. Some Hebrew, but a lot more in English. What about sukkahs? Did you have a sukkah? We had one. My parents had one built a sukkahs. What about as you children have become adults and your families, does anyone have a circus to do? My daughter Marilyn had a circus in their house.
She had before she built her present home. She had a circus there. She built. And all my family was fairly religious to a degree. They were serving all the holidays and customs. Did you have a sukkah after marriage? No, I didn't have a sukkah. You did, but the kids had started. Okay. What about Chanukah? How did you celebrate Chanukah? Well, we went to Shul and we always light the candles for all the kids for the eight days and they all enjoyed getting gifts. We had to give them some kind of gift every day. So, you know, they're accustomed to that. They love that because they got a gift every day.
How would you compare that to what Chanukah was like when you were growing up? Well when I was growing up, I was in a much better shape with my children financially than my parents were so they couldn't with having nine kids they couldn't do as much as as i could do what type but what was done did you get gifts yeah i got better yeah hanukkah gifts i had money and gifts you got gifts as well as hanukkah guild money mm-hmm all eight nights all what all eight nights each night or just one time each night each night what would a gift be I gave them money most of the time.
They'd buy what they want. No, your parents. Your parents. They just didn't have many gifts to give with all the kids. Would you have to pay the lottikas? Yeah, they may pay the lottikas. How about playing Spivone? Did you play them as a young? No. What about your kids? Well, I learned a kid. and my couple kids played the piano. Michael went to high school. He played it. Now I'm talking about playing dreidel during comedy. Yeah, they played dreidel at the synagogue. What about at home? No. Did you, when you were a child, play dreidel? At the synagogue. Only at the synagogue? Okay. Okay. How has some of the observance changed over the years, or do you see it as having changed?
Well, first of all, when I grew up and people got married, the intermarriage rate was very, very, very low. Oh, how have things changed over the year, observance, and you said more intermarriage than you? Well, when I got married, very, very few intermarriages today. I guess 50% of the people in America, give or take. So it's changed tremendously. And I think the parents in those days were much, much more stricter than a girl or a boy going out with a non-Jewish date. Much more stricter. Today they let them do what they want to do to a great degree. They're much stricter those days than they are today.
How about your own dealing with your children? Did you deal differently with that? Well, we, both my wife and I didn't insist, but we made a strong point of it. It was not very healthy to go out with non dates and they should go out with Jewish dates So we put it on that basis and was pretty successful by doing it that way But when you insist on something you don get it done as well That was my... Now, in terms of holidays like Sukkot and Shavuot and Pesach, how has your observance changed over the years? And Rosh Hashanah as well. I have always observed going to the synagogue, not only on Rosh Hashanah and Yer Kippur, but on Sukkot and Shavuot and Passover.
So I made a habit of that going on that. What about businesses in relation to business? Were the stores closed during those days? Well, I'm glad you brought that subject up. I started Sterling in 1949 and we had enough employees to open the stores that were not Jewish working for us, especially later in life. And we closed for years, for many, many, many years, we closed every Yom Kippur, every first day of Rosh Hashanah and every day of Yom Kippur. The stores were always closed. Up until very late in the 70's I guess when we had so many employees and decided that the Jews still took off on Yom Kippur on the first day of Rosh Hashanah.
Some took off two days that were religious or they belonged to Sharath Israel or to Farath Israel and the reform group we had working for us they only deserved one day anyway. So we decided to not close. But that was in the 70s before we did that. Now before you went into business in 1949, what were some of the things you did in just business or printing? I worked for my brother-in-law, Harry Kaplan, in the printing business. And then in 1941, my brother Nathan opened a store in Brownwood, Texas, a small store. And he wanted to know if I wanted to go there in the month of December and see if I liked the jewelry business.
And I went there and I did like the jewelry business And he opened a larger store in 1942 on the main street and I moved to Brownwood Texas with my wife and had one child in Maryland the oldest child And I stayed there, but after, I had a good job there running the store after I was there for several years, but I had three children there and I could not see bringing these children up in Brownwood, Texas, where they had about ten Jewish families. And I definitely decided to move back to Dallas with my wife. We both agreed on it. I moved back to Dallas in January of 1948 to give our children a proper Jewish education.
And then what did you do until you went into... I was on the road. I bought a business out called Coons Wholesale Jewelers, and I was on the road most of the time. I hated it. And then I finally opened up Sterling Wholesale Jewelers in June of 1949 in fourth floor of Mercantile Securities Building in 600 square foot of space. And two years later I moved into across the street of Mercantile Continental Building to 6,000 square foot of space. When did you move to? And at the same time, I started becoming very involved with the Federation. What are some of the things you remember about the Federation activities over the years?
Well, I used to solicit many a card for Federation, and I was very active in that, raising money, not only giving money, but raising a lot of money and calling on many, many individuals to contribute to the Federation. and we did a good job I thought and the Federation did a good job. And I got the campaign of the year, I don't know what year it was, but for working so many cards. And later I was campaign chairman of the Federation in 1965, 1966, and then 1967 both years. General campaign chairman for the Federation Drive What about your congregational affiliation Where did you affiliate when you were a child Go to Sochem I went there and attended that When I moved back to Dallas in 1948 I went there again for a few years and congregation, I got a sophomore, was about to split up.
It had a lot of dissension over there and we joined Sheriff Israel and we started sending our kids to Sheriff Israel School around 1900 and I think it was around 1949 or 50, one of its years. They started going to Sunday school over there and then later to the Hebrew school. What are some of the changes you have seen in Sheriff Israel from the time you joined in the 50s until now? Well, there was quite a bit of changes because Sheriff Israel was on Park Street and the facilities were very inadequate for Hebrew school. In fact, somebody gave them a lot of money and they started to build an additional building adjacent to it for the Hebrew school and the only thing they ever built was a foundation.
And it stood there. It didn't went no further than that. Then Rabbi Hillel Silverman finally came to Dallas. I think he came here in 1954. And he was a tremendous rabbi and the membership grew so greatly in the time he was here. They had the holiday services in the Forest Avenue Theater on Forest Avenue which is now called Martha Luther King. They already had land where the present synagogue is and was starting building a new synagogue which took several years to build it. But meanwhile, for the high holidays they had the services at Forest Theater for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. What about the service itself?
How has that changed over the years? Alright, do you want to comment on when the synagogue moved to North Dallas? The synagogue moved to North Dallas on Douglas Street. It's very easy to remember this because my son Michael had the third bar mitzvah in that Michael was born in the synagogue. He was 13 years old in 1956. So he had a third bar mystery there. The first bar mystery where the kitchen facilities were ready. You know, they scheduled his bar mitzvah over a year in advance, so it wasn't planned or special, but they were working the first day of Rosh Hashanah, or the evening of Rosh Hashanah, they were still putting carpet down in the main sanctuary.
So they had a hard time getting it ready on time. But so the kitchen was not ready, but it was ready for his bar mitzvah, which was the third bar mitzvah in that synagogue. And it was probably the biggest bar mitzvah they ever had there for the simple reason they had the proper facilities for it. And the other shill they didn't have the proper facilities. And it was really some affair. Are you a member or do you have memberships in any other shill other than sheriff? Yeah, I've been a member of Teferra Thysville for I guess 35 years, only for the purpose that I feel like they needed help.
And I helped get started, the synagogue, which was Vestora and Rabbi Lippus was here. See I was president when we were looking for a rabbi. When Rabbi Silverman left, we had a Rabbi, not Weisfeld, Weisfeld was Fort Silverman. We had Shapira. When Shapira left, we didn't have a Rabbi here. And I became president of the synagogue. We bought Lippison there as a temporary Rabbi. He was a Rabbi Mertes from Chicago, stayed at my house for a while, and then he took over the Rabbi's house when he was here on a longer basis. And the question was, you asked me, was how the services differed? Well, I'll tell you how they differed.
When Rabbi Hillel Silverman was here, he was a tremendous rabbi. We used to have on Friday night the synagogue was full practically every Friday night whether it was a bar mitzvah or not And it got away from that for some reason What it called it I don know And of course today we have the Norse services on Friday night which is going over pretty well. And they already started experimenting on having Saturday morning services out there, which I think is going pretty well. but I think overall there's been so many synagogues open up one I helped get started which is Beth Torah had a meeting in my house and we raised a lot of money for it with the understanding we couldn't tell them how to spend the money but we recommended to the people that in order for a synagogue to grow they have to have a rabbi and we recommended that they put this money aside in order to get a rabbi But to use it just for regular budgetary purposes, it's not going to accomplish anything.
And I think they listened to that because they did get a rabbi and they've had several different rabbis. And I think the synagogue has grown. I've been a member of it ever since that time as well as being a member to Fere Thyssal for about 35 years. And chair Thyssal naturally all these years. So I always believed in strong Jewish education and that's why I got the Shaman Shakespeare School started. How about the service itself, the length and the use of Hebrew in the service? The Shere Thedra? Oh I think that they put a lot more English into it than they used to have and try to make it more interesting to more people.
And but you're never going to have a service that satisfies everybody. It's impossible. What was the first Jewish organization you joined? The first Jewish organization I joined? Well I had to call AZA a sort of a whatever you want to call it. And being a member of Teferit for 35 years, not going there, but being a member there, only because I felt like they needed help. I gave money to every Jewish organization They always solicit you I don care whether it was DOSA the Mizrahi you name them You can name them all You know them all You been in all of them That reminds me of the story of your mother who I've heard kept push keys from all Jewish charities in her kitchen everywhere.
She had about 10 of them in there. And every Friday she put money in some of them. And my sister would always say to her, We put money in there for it. It's never going to get there. She said, As long as some of it gets there, it'll serve its purpose. That was her theory. How did that work? A different charity would come and collect money? These different men, these different guys would come around every so often. And each one had a name of what box they represented. Some of them had several boxes. And they came around pretty consistently. But she put money every Friday night in every one of them.
Not a lot, but some. Do you know what some of those charities were? No, they were mostly different organizations. Some of them were in New York. Some of them were in Israel. Most of them were in New York because Israel, as you know, did not get organized in 1948. And there wasn't too much going on there. But they did have these charities in America. Well, like Jewish National Fund. They always had boxes. They always had boxes. No dates. Not that time I don't think. That came later I think. Well anyway, what about, what was, about what time, what year did you join ASEAN? What year?
Oh I guess I was about seventeen. I was born in 1916, so if you put 16 and 17, you'd have 33. Okay. What were your activities, some of your activities in Asia? Well I was not the Alif Kudol president, but I was the secretary and treasury and different things. Did you have cultural programs? Did you have sports? Mostly sports, mostly sports at that time. We had some social like dances we sponsored and different things. What were you going to say? And I was in the printing business. I graduated in 35 so when I was in the printing business I went ahead and had my brother at a special price print posters for the dances and we put them up on a different telephone post advertising in South Dallas only, and advertising the dance to be held.
About how many kids would you say showed up? At a dance? At a dance? Oh, I'd say we'd end up with a couple of hundred. Which was a pretty good crowd. What was general social life like? What were some of the things you did? Like the way to dance you mean? Not dance, but basketball. Basketball was very popular in those days, very popular. To me it was especially. Sure. What else? Did you go to movies? Oh yeah, I went to movies. In those days I think you went to movies for 15 cents. That's on the theater, it was a white theater and the Forest Avenue Theater was built later on Forest Avenue which is now Martha Luther King and that was the key street in Dallas.
Downtown I think it cost you a quarter to go to the Majestic or Palace. We used to go to theaters. Most of the kids my age back had dates. They'd go to the Jester Kirkpatrick on a Saturday night. Did you go out after the movies? Yeah, we went out to a place called Sammy's, the most popular place in Dallas. It was on Greenville Avenue and that's where all the kids went. It was the only popular restaurant I go to. What are some of the other organizations you were involved in as you were growing in? We later organized a chapter because it got older called AOTA, the luminous of AZA.
And we organized that chapter. That was for the people that were AZA members became members of AOTA. What about Zionist activity? Were you involved in any Zionist activity? this up, raise money for Israel. You're talking about in the 30s now. In the 30s. No. What about Jewish National Fund? The Jewish National Fund wasn't popular in the 30s. It got organized much later in life. If it did, it was on an insignificant place because after all there was no State of Israel. You know what I mean? Yes. What are some of the other organizations that you've been involved in through the years? Now you've mentioned Federation.
Family Service, Golden Acres, which was organized about 35 years ago. I've always been active in Golden Acres. I was on the board for many, many years and later became the president. I raised a lot of money for them. Same thing, Jewish community center was more active than any other place was built. Because we were the largest city in the country that didn't have a decent Jewish community center. The one on Pocahontas Street was nothing, absolutely nothing. So we were the oldest, the largest city in the country, a Jewish population that didn't have a Jewish community center. Do you remember some of the controversy that went on in the period between moving the center from South Dallas to North Dallas?
I'm moving to the center. Center from South Dallas to North Dallas. Are you really seeing what went on from the time the new center on Polka on North Haven was built, which you're really seeing. A lot of controversy went on. Our vice president of the center, and this is a very important factor, and Victor Richmond was president. He passed away a few years ago. And all the officers of the constituent agency such as Family Service, Center, and Golden Acres were on the executive board of the Federation. We wanted to have a capital fund drive to build a center building. We did have a day camp building already built.
That was a pieceman deal and a swimming pool. That's all we had. But we wanted to build a center building. And we wanted to apply to the Federation for permission to build, have a capital fund drive to build a community center. The executive board met and they said the timing wasn't right and they recommended that the capital fund drive be postponed and not held now So I got a hold of Victor Richmond When I heard this, we were both very unhappy. And I asked him if he could take off three or four days from work. And I told him why. I said we could go and solicit people to build a center unofficially if we had to drive.
And he said you could. We went out and solicited over 100 people. If we had a capital fund drive, this was not official, what would it contribute over a five-year period to build a center building? And we had promises, names, and numbers. It amounted to $175,000, which was a lot of money in those days. Went to the board meeting, which I was on the Federation board, but not on, and Victor was on the Executive Board, and he was there. and Morris Jaffe was president and he read the recommendation of the executive board and I said Mr. Chairman I have a list here of over a hundred pledges and printed list I made copies of it of a hundred and seventy five thousand dollars over a five-year period if we had a capital fund drive and he recently said it wasn't feasible to have a capital fund drive and his recommendation and it would be postponed, and I gave them the list.
And we didn't solicit the big boys, the top people, Dr. Jake Feldman, on purpose. And the board of directors overruled executive boards' ruling and gave permission to have a capital fund drive. All right, now, with a fund drive, go ahead. Well, and we went out and raised this money, and the Federation gave us permission to have a capital fund drive, which we conducted, and we made plans to build the first Jewish community center building in Dallas, 25,000 square feet. and we wanted to call it a Jewish community center but we have a group of people in the city that objected to that and they didn't like the word Jewish and they finally took a man who was well respected and well named and they recommended that it be called a Jewish Jewish Sheps Community Center that where the name came in although he wasn active in the center in any form shape or manner and we had no choice except to buy it Did he ever contribute to that building No, did not contribute a nickel to it.
At that time, he was a well-fine man, did a lot for the community, but not for the center. The federation at that time was still federation with reform control. and that did not change until after World War II. Alright, now this was during the period of the 50s. Do you remember? It did not change until after then, but still was under, well I'd say under control, it was a split control at that time. Now it's strictly heavy control by the non-reform group, I would say, federation. Do you remember the exact year during this period of time? Of what? Of the meetings, the sequence of meetings, when the decision was made and the decision on the name.
On the judaships? Mm-hmm. Well, let me see. I would say this happened in the early 70s, these meetings. No, no, no, no. I'm trying to think when I was president of the center. I know. I got something to tell them when I was president on the board. The show in there, don't you book show me? You'll go and follow me. Well, you mentioned that Victor Richmond was president of the center. Yeah, he was the first official president of the center when they had some kind of activity building and that was the day camp building. The other people prior to that didn't have no billing. Alright, but before that day camp building was built, what was the issue or the main issue to go ahead and get the property and build the center to move it to North Dallas?
Well, they bought the property to satisfy them. They bought it right. But nothing was ever done after that. They bought the property, built the day camp building and that was it. We had no facilities to take for meetings and other things to take place. No salt ball diamonds, no activities. Had the actual decision to build the center to go forth with an actual Jewish community center been made at that point in time It was not made until the time I told you when I was a vice president of the center Victor Rich was president, and we made a recommendation to the federation to have a capital fund drive for the purpose of building a Jewish community building, which included outdoor activities, baseball diamonds, softball.
So, call you the one you want, softball or baseball, mainly softball. And that had to go to the executive board, and that's what I told you earlier. Right. Okay. What other organizations have you been active in through the years? Well, very active, as you know, in the Golden Acres, and in the synagogue. and active supporting every one of the organizations in Dallas that raised money for different causes. And later, about 12 years ago, of getting the Shami Shekhar Day School started played a key part in that. What about your involvement in Israel bonds? Israel bonds for years I sold bonds. I got several awards for selling bonds.
I worked on it like crazy. Many a year. Bought bonds every year and helped them sell a lot of bonds. Sold a lot of bonds for them. What were some of the situations you met with in selling Israel bonds? Did you have any opposition? Did you have support? Was everybody helpful? Well, before the Six-Day War in 1967, I think that's correct, right? There was quite a bit of opposition to buying Israel bonds. It seemed that a lot of people were not strongly in favor of Israel, especially from the Reform group, more so than any other group. And there's a certain amount of opposition to buying bonds.
First of all, they paid a very low rate of interest, you know. and you would really buying bonds even though you got interest for them like four percent interest you're really buying bonds to help Israel, the ones who bought them not for the kind of interest. Today you got a different market for the first In history today you got a better investment in Israel bonds than you have of putting money in your bank. So it changed completely around. But in those days it was just a question of how strongly you felt in favor of Israel to buy bonds. But quite a few of them were sold because there was a lot of people for Israel.
What about civic and cultural activities in groups? Well, I was a member of the Dallas Citizen Charter Association for many years, for over 30 some odd years. It was the organization that picked the candidates to run for city council and mayor. They used to play a key part in years ago. And I've been on the National Conference of Christian Jews, on the board I mean, and I've I've always helped raise money from my employees, especially for United Way. And I've tried to support all the charitable organizations there are. Okay. Now you commented, let's talk about a little bit, places you lived in Dallas, locations of your home.
You talked about living on Caroline Street and on Sanger. Now, when did you move from Sanger Avenue? When I got married, we had rented an apartment on Forest Avenue. What year? In 1940. Okay, and then from there? From there, I moved to Brownwood, Texas in 1941. I moved to Brownwood, Texas in December, I think it was, in 1941. I might have said 1942 before. And I decided, as I told you earlier, I moved back to Dallas in January of 1948. And then we moved an apartment on South Boulevard. No, no, no, take that back. That's not correct. When I moved in 48, we bought a house on University Park on Colgate.
I later, after the apartment on Forest Avenue, we later rented an apartment on South Boulevard. But when I came back to Dallas in 48 we bought a brand new house on Colgate 3301 Colgate And how long did you live there Well we lived there from 48 and to move in this home here where we living now we moved here in 56 And this address is? 5630 Yolanda Circle. So I lived there from 48 to 56. What has the family structure been with over the years? You said there were nine children in the family. Did any of your grandparents or relatives live with you during any period of time?
No. No aunts, uncles? Nobody. What about borders? Did your parents ever have borders? No. My parents helped people come in. New people came in to get art set. In a small place of hand, they'd always put somebody up. And what would happen, for example? Give us an example of what would happen. How would this happen? It was crowded already with all the children we had without taking this. When you said they'd put somebody up. If I put somebody up for a couple of nights or something, they would go out of their way. Where did they meet the people that they put up? Were they what?
Where did they meet the people that they would put up? Or were they people that just came to town? Somebody just came to town or something. My wife, my mother would do anything for anybody. That's what Nancy took after. Where did she meet these people? I don't know where she met in particular, but she heard that somebody needed help. Did the Federation have any part in that? Was that the usual? No, I don't think so. Well, it was usually a lot of people felt sorry. You know, the people used to come and knock at our back door all the time. In those days, my mother would never turn anybody away.
She'd bring them to the house and give them something to eat. Never turn anybody away. Were there frequently visitors at your... I'm talking about somebody knocking the back door that's hungry. They want something to eat. Not Jewish. Never turn anybody down. Never. Was that during the Depression years? Mostly. I would say that was during the 20s, late 20s, early 30s. In the 20s and 30s, let's put it that way. Let see your home on Siger was that a brick home or a frame home What type of housing was that Frame home Large small Big improvement over the one on Caroline Street. Big improvement. After we've been there several years, my father and I spent quite a bit of money remodeling, making it more livable.
About how many rooms was your house on Caroline, for example? How many rooms? I guess you'd have to say three rooms. And, okay, when you moved to Sanger? On Sanger we had a lot more room. We had one, two, three, four, and the back porch was used for a bedroom. And quite a bit bigger, no comparison. Quite a bit bigger. did your father change occupations over the years did he change yeah he was in transfer business and when the automobiles became more popular trucks became and they took over a lot of his business he was in transfer business before that time, moved some of the people with his, he had two large horse and wagons, big wagons which he transferred the fruit from and also moved people.
And there was a lot of movement of people in the, around the 1920s, people moving from North Dallas to South Dallas. And then later his trucks became available, he got into the ice business, delivering ice to, there was no refrigerator, everything was with ice. You had ice in your... You didn't have electric refrigerators. An ice box? Ice box had put ice in it. And he did this by horse and wagon? We did that with horse and wagon. No, he later got a truck that hauled the ice in. Where did he keep the horses? In South Dallas we had a backyard. In South Dallas We had a big backyard that kept them in, two horses and wagons.
This was on Sanger? On Sanger, on Sanger. They had them in Caroline too, but in Sanger they had them. Now did he have a shed for the horses in the backyard? Did he have a shed for the horses? No was it just outside or how was that arrangement It was a sort of little shed where the horses could go and you feed them and everything and wagons were kept out and open Did he change from being an Iceman or was that when he stayed with an occupation? Well he did several things since you mentioned it. One was he had this before he had the wives he had fish for a while went around all the Jewish people he delivered ice to they had fish.
You can buy fish in the park like you can today and he sold fish. How did he get his fish? Well they bought it from the distributor here that brought this fish in. How in the world did they do that? Yeah it on ice in there. So it came by railroad? I don't know how it came here. You ask me something. I don't really know how it came. It's refrigerated. Did they bring it up from the Gulf? Do you know? Yeah it came from the Gulf. The fish basically came from the Gulf. Red snapper and trout. Didn't bring it in tanks. They brought it on ice?
Yeah, refrigerated and bought it on trucks with ice, I think. I'm trained by ice. I think we sent it bought by trucks. About what year? In the 20s, I'd say. Okay. Late 20s. Okay. What were some of the other things he did? That was it. Between the ice and the fish. Did your mother work outside of the home at all or bring any money? No, she didn't work outside of the home. She had enough to take care of all the kids. Did she bake her own bread, things like that, or did she go to the Jewish bakeries? She baked bread, but she also bought bread later on.
I know we bought bread from the bakeries. What about general baking? and was that the usual? Well, I know every Friday night she made a coconut cake, which I loved. Coconut pie, I should say. What was a typical Friday night dinner? Fish. Every Friday night we had fish. Every Tuesday and Thursday we had meat. Every Monday We had milky, salmon croquettes or thin fish or something like that. That was a set schedule. And every Sunday we had meat or chicken. Did you have to get filtered fish on Friday? Filtered fish on Friday. She always made it. Okay. Now in your given situation, in your occupation and your wife, Ola Shalom, how did her situation compare?
I would say completely different because we're living in different times and we always had all our kids over. Well of course they were all living at home but when they first got married we always had them over every Friday night. Now did your wife work outside the home when the kids were home? She worked at the store all. She helped at the store tremendously. When we started this business in 1949 in 600 square foot of space in the American Telesecurity Building she worked with me and two years later we moved into 6,000 feet as I told you earlier. We started hiring more employees and she worked there she was always a key person in the business.
What was her role? She sold I understand. Bought and sold jewelry and sold a good sales lady. Gift items, silver, jewelry. Now, you talked a little bit about intermarriage. Has there been any intermarriage in your family? Only one. And she converted, Howard's first wife. but she converted before they got married did she remain Jewish? did she change in any way or what? no she remained Jewish as long as they were married and then afterwards? well a different life then what about extended family? brothers and sisters was there any conversion? none of them brothers and sisters What about, were there any children from Howard's first marriage?
One And is that child Jewish or not Yeah he Jewish Okay How has the Jewish community developed over the years from when you were a child until now, besides population? Well, I think it's developed quite a bit. First of all, you've got to remember at one time, if you went way back into the 20s and 30s, you had two different categories of people here. You had the reform group who kept them themselves completely, and you had a conservative or orthodox group which would mingle together, which was the other group, and they didn't intermingle together at all. If they did, it was almost very insignificant. Today, the whole thing is mingled together.
It's not separated anymore at all. They built the country club about 35 years ago. Before they built it, the membership was strictly reformed. Now it's wide open and I say they have as many conservative Orthodox members together as they have reformed members out there today, the Clemmon club. So it's not separating more at all like it was. I mean, they were completely harmonized together. What about in terms of Jewish neighbor hooding? You talked about growing up, or when you were very young, you were on Caroline Street. Reform element did not live on Caroline Street at all. Where did the reform element live? They've already, most first of all, the Reform element as a whole were in a much better financial shape and wealth than the conservative or the orthodox group, mostly orthodox.
They lived in the, some of them on Irby Street, South Boulevard, they lived in the north part of town mostly, or South Dallas, I mean the better part of South Dallas. They didn't live in North Dallas at all. Not the Reform 9 at all. At one time there was some activity of Ku Klux Klan here in Dallas. Do you remember any of that? Not particularly. There's always been anti-Semitic here as you know. Never always will be but it was just partially I don't know. Never was. I don't think it was ever big here. about it Did you notice any examples growing up of anti Any what Examples of anti There always been some examples about signs on synagogues or something It's happened more recently than it has way back.
Did you have any personal experiences with kids that write or slurred remarks or in the store or whatever? a certain amount you Jews are no good you're a damn Jew things of that nature was this in a school situation when you were a kid what about business I really haven't had it in business to speak of any particular incident you can recall were there gangs when you went to school no not really There were groups and I know there's a lot of, nicknaming, call you a Jew baby or something of that nature, slang marks made. Would this be on the playground? Playground, the room, not in the class.
What about your situation at school with Jewish holidays? Did the teachers give you a hard, tough time? No, it never gave me any tough time because I just stayed out every holiday. The majority of the Jewish children, the vast majority of them, stayed out the first day of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. Very few of them stayed out for holidays such as Sukkot, Passover, or Shavuot when it came earlier before school was out. They just didn't stay out. Very few stayed out. You know, when I think of Go to Sochem days, I can think of the Jewish people, a Jewish kid would come to the synagogue, and it was just a handful.
On holidays such as Sukkah or Passover. Just a very few came. Very, very few. Do you have any troubles with teachers giving tests or exams on Jewish children? I never had any problems. You mentioned Guttasacham had a bimah in the middle. At one time he built one, that's right. Do you remember at which point in time and why they took that bimah out What was the discussion there I think it was hard to see. The bimah is the middle. If you were sitting in front of it, you couldn't see the bimah. If the cannon was diving in the bimah, you can't see them. You'd have to turn around, twist your neck around.
It wasn't practical from the standpoint of people who was halfway in the synagogue. If you were behind it, you could see fine. If you were in front of it, it was no good. So you had too many complaints about it. So as time went on, you had more and more people. Now, Gurdshaqam was known as an Orthodox synagogue. Really and truly, it was an Orthodox synagogue. It wasn't a conservative synagogue. between the two it's the same as Teferoth Israel is today and you know what Teferoth Israel is today tell us about it I'm trying to think of the word I use all the time it is um...
Traditional? No, not traditional. It's the word between conservative and orthodox. In fact, in Texas Jewish Post I don't even list it anymore as orthodox synagogue. Not Reconstruction? No, it's the name they use in Texas Jewish Post. I've got enough to cut it off and I'll tell you. It's traditional. Now, what is traditional? It's split between Orthodox and Conservative. And really and truly, and I'll tell you the difference, what it is for your own information. Maybe especially Nancy sitting here as they visited her. Orthodox is where the men sit separate from the women and the women sit where you cannot see them. If you look at them, they're either up second floor or they have a curtain hiding them.
The Chazen, Davin facing the Armcordish, the Torah and they don't use a microphone at all and that is strictly Orthodox. traditional is where they use a microphone the men is a rule set on the right side Women sit on the left side, exposed. In the middle, they sit together. That is what Firth Israel does today. And that is what, as time went on, that is what the people demanded at Firth, at Godesachem. And what they did was this, to satisfy these members, the women sit on the left side strictly by themselves, the men sit on the right side strictly by themselves, the men sit in the front of the center section, And further back, the women and men sat together.
And that's the way Sheriff Israel operated. And at the time, they did not use a microphone. Probably the only reason they didn't use one and never put one in. But this, and the Hauden, as you know, faced the Irma-Kardish Torah. So this is what, so they really weren't Orthodox, even though they called them Orthodox. They were traditional. And that's the way to Sheriff Israel is today. So this is what Agar Shachem was. Was any part of that change due to the fact that they may have wanted to utilize more seating area because of the revenue? No, no, no. I think the change was made strictly because they were getting more and more children of the regional members who were not happy with the type of services.
The rabbi did not speak good English at all. He went to SMU to practice English. And he talked his speech to wearing Jewish, which a lot of people didn't understand too well. And they wanted more English, and they wanted the service to make more toward the conservative side. And that's why they made this arrangement where they could have the women and women sit together in the back. what are some of your other observations about the conflict in Agudasachim before it closed well I hate to bring that up because one man caused all the problems Louis O'Keefe that's a fact of life but I don't want to go into detail about it can you talk about the basic issue what was the issue yeah the basic issue was we had a Rabbi Brownwitz who wasn in the best of health And Oakland was president and he would always sit next to the rabbi which the officer did And instead of letting the rabbi do his davening and whatever was going on he would want to talk to him, and the rabbi got the point he wouldn't talk to him at all.
He kept interrupting him and talked to him, and he built a terrific hate for the rabbi and did everything he could to get him out of the synagogue. So I don't go into more detail about it. Sure. He was wrong as he could be, and that's all I can tell you. Sure. Nancy Lubar, Irv's niece, is here. Do you have some other questions you want to insert? I'm interested in hearing more about the social life. What would you do? You didn't ask me about Solomon Schechter. I was surprised. Oh, well, let's talk. Well, I asked you about institutions that you were involved. Well, talk to us about Solomon Schechter.
Well, the time and sector is a very peculiar thing. I was always interested in intensive Jewish education, and I knew that Houston had an Orthodox and a conservative day school. So I went to Rabbi Offser around 12, 13 years ago, and said, Rabbi, how would you like to have a conservative day school? He said, I would love to have a conservative day school. I'll tell you what I'll do, Rabbi. I'll raise the money for an independent conservative day school because your board will not ever approve one. I can tell you that right now. All you have to do is get the students and I'll raise the money for it.
He says, fine. So I went out and told Rabbi Allsayer that I will put up $10,000 in a diamond fund for the school. and I will give $3,000 a year membership and I will go out and get other people to give membership fee to it to build an independent day school provided that they could have the classes and the board would approve of having the classes at the shared theater or synagogue. Well, as I went on, Jake Feldman heard about it. I didn't go see Jake Feldman. And he wrote a letter saying that he will match what Irvin Dotsky is doing. he will get $10,000 in diamond fund and get $3,000 a year of membership.
He thought it was wonderful to do the school. Well I ended up raising around between and in membership fees for the school And the synagogue agreed to go ahead and let it be held as Sheriff Israel Well, after it was held there, we found out it wasn't the right place for the school. It didn't have the right facilities. It didn't have the rooms it needed for a proper day school. So I went back to them. Barnard Levy was president. and I said we have to build another building in the north part of town. The land was bought for it and have a capital fund drive to build, to build, to raise money for it and buy land to build a building in the north part of town.
Where it ought to be held because that's where the population is moving already. We could see the handwriting on the wall, looking for the future. So I then went to approach the Bernard Levy and the rabbi for the synagogue to take over the school. I was the first president. And they didn't want to do it. And I finally said, I'll tell you what I'll do if you do it now. I said the synagogue has no business the food's already been in business now it's the first shirt that'll do well but I can see from the handwriting on the wall you have to have a strong body behind it if it's going to be a permanent structure in this community somebody strong behind it and synagogue is the body to be behind it I will tell you what I'll do I will put $25,000 in endowment funds where only the interest could be used.
I would put $100,000 in my wife's will, $100,000 in my will, and I would give the school $5,000 a year, a membership fee, if the synagogue would take over the school. That's the deal I made. Well, they kept trying to talk me out of it. I said, the synagogue has no business being a business unless they do this. It's a wonderful school, and the synagogue is always interested in intensive Jewish education. Finally I got an agree on that deal and the synagogue did take over the school and as you know the history of it how the school has grown And that the way I got the synagogue to take it over what happened in the early stages as to its relationship with Akiba or was there any discussion about having well I had a lot of discussion and I talked a lot of people about I said the best thing could happen Akiba Academy is for us to have a conservative day school it will make both schools better off because if Houston can have two and get along well Dallas can afford to have to.
And to prove my point, Howard Schultz was not approached, as you know Howard Schultz pretty well, very active in the Jewish community. Howard Schultz gave me a pledge, a gift of $12,500 without being approached for it, for the new Shama Shurga School. He realized that they could do the school. And I, to back up my point, I've given for a little $2,000 year ever since they've been in business. And there are other people who have given them money. And the far, the large amount of money they get comes from the charitable membership. And they've done a good job, Akiba Kadma. What was the stumbling block in terms of just having one school system as a general school system in both schools?
I don't think there was any stumbling block. We had a hard time to get the Federation taken over. I also promised them another issue if Sheriff Israel took over the school, that I promised them faithfully, I know what I'm talking about, that Federation would support the Shama Shekhtar Day School with one understanding, that the tuition would be the same for Sheriff Israel members as well as non-Sherith Israel members. If it was that condition, then Federation would support it for sure. and they did because all federations believe in intensive US education and to prove the point as loudly as the campaign has been they've never cut their they haven't increased what they wanted but they certainly didn't cut it to Tekeba or to Shama Sheffield ok I think you covered everything almost I got a hard problem you told me one hour On a typical Sunday afternoon, what would you do as a family?
Would you sit around, would you listen to the radio, would you play games, talk with friends? You're talking about who, me or my childhood age? Your childhood. In your childhood? Well, we didn't have no radio in North Dallas. Here we got a radio. We were one of the first people who got a good radio out here. And that was for a child. Would your friends come over to visit your parents? Well, we had people come over to visit them. The Weiners, which was, of course, his wife was dead, but his second wife was very close to our family, and we were very close to these children.
He would come over here practically every Sunday to visit my folks. He had a Cadillac automobile, and I would say if he put on a thousand miles a year, 1,500 miles a year, he put on a lot of mileage. Never drove it except on Sunday. You understand? Didn't take it to town. This would have been what year? Would have been in the 20s, 30s. What was the transportation then? You said he never took it to town. What was the usual? Everybody rode a streetcar. She was a nickel for adults, free cents for kids. Would you walk a lot? Yeah, I walked to school all my life.
I mean, Bertie Shackman lived across the street. She used to take us to school a lot, but most of the time I'd walk. Take you to school how? Pick me up. I'd go over to her house. She'd go to Colonial School, Forest Avenue High School. Now she drove already? Yeah, she drove. And this was in the 20s? Yeah, well let me see, 16, 26. It was in the late 20s and the 30s. Your mother wore a shingle? No A wig No she wore it only when she went to show Otherwise what would she wear around the house Nothing particular Not a scarf around her head Not particular.
Ask the girls, I don't remember in particular. Did any of the women wear shadows in the community? Some of them did, I'm sure. Do you remember anyone specifically wearing a shadow? Only I noticed when she sent a guy with it over like that. As I recall, all of my grandmother's sisters did. I mean, I don't remember them, but this is what I've been told. Alright, that's... Okay, do you have any other comments that you'd share with us about your own family and your own self or yourself or the community and or? Well, I think the community has been very good to me, and in turn I try to be a very good community by supporting all the organizations, raising a lot of money for the Federation, for the Community Center, for Golden Acres, for the synagogue, for the Shaman Shaker School, and that's a lot of money that I not only gave, but raised a tremendous amount of money.
What about Jewish life in Dallas? Do you feel a loss in any way because of not having a Jewish neighborhood like we did in South Dallas? Some of the things that we see in terms of intermarriage and friends, students. Well you got to remember that there are several factors in your favor You go from a city of approximately in the 20s 10 population in 20 to over 40 population today Although a lot of them might not be affiliated with the synagogue, but you have well over 40,000 Jews. And I don't think it's particularly true when you say you don't have a Jewish neighborhood. But in South Dallas, sure, there was a lot of Jews lived out there, but they were a small minority compared to the rest of the people.
And you still have a lot of Jewish areas here. You can take this street I'm on right here, this circle. we have the one Dr. Euler one two three four five six houses here and out of the six houses there's four Jewish people live here the Steins cross the street the Krasnallax next door to them and what's her name next door Music huh? Music she's in bad shape with cancer so that's four out of seven families no seven there's one here there's one cross street seven houses in this circle that's pretty good right and you have other areas where quite a few Jewish people live in different areas together and that's spread all over I realize that but there are a lot of people live And of course you have so many new synagogues open up today You got a lot of Jewish synagogues that you didn have before The only thing you don have here and this is not belittling maybe it's good for you and your daughter.
You have one kosher meat market in Dallas today, a really kosher meat market that sells fresh meat. When I grew up as a kid, they had three butcher shops and 10,000 population. And now with 40,000, you have only one kosher meat market. Well, maybe that means that less people proportionally are keeping kosher, or less people generally. Well, I wouldn't say that's particularly true. There's more people keeping kosher today for sure than kept kosher in the 1920s. They didn't bring any meat in the 1920s. Whoever kept kosher bought it at one of those kosher butcher shops. Today, the vast majority of meat consumed, I'm sure, and I think you know the answer, It's brought in.
And they divide it up, whoever brings it in, and it's brought in, not bought at the butcher shop. And that's a fact. And I think you know about it. So that's what the difference is. I don't think there's a city in the country the size of Dallas that had one butcher shop. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so. Okay Do you have any memorabilia perhaps for us? Scrapbooks, pictures that you could share with us? Well, I'm running late on the time schedule I didn't realize it was going to take over an hour Oh, okay And that's what Nancy told me I thank you very much We thank you and appreciate it You want a cold drink?
I don't know what good it's going to be