Estelle Shwiff
Estelle Shwiff was born on May 18, 1923. She and her husband Sonny, whom she described as a delightful person who joined their two families together, raised four children: sons Seth, Ron, and Mitchell, and daughter Jody, along with Deborah Shwiff, whom she counted as part of the family. She spoke lovingly of her six grandchildren, Scott, Meredith, Ari, Jake, Alexa, and Logan, and her great-grandchildren Gavin, Riley, and Olivia. Some of her children were named after respected relatives to perpetuate their names, while others reflected a musical blending of first and last names.
In Dallas, Estelle built a life around family togetherness, playing tennis, visiting art galleries, attending school sports and activities, and enjoying flea markets and estate sales. Her children were bar mitzvahed at Shearith Israel, and she described the family's religious life as moderate. She instilled in her children the values of respect, family, integrity, and helping those in need, and she expressed deep pride in the supportive adults they became. She recalled the social changes of the 1960s, including the Kennedy and Martin Luther King assassinations, segregation signs, and the civil rights struggles that shaped her family's values.
Professionally, Estelle began with volunteer work, teaching young children at the JCC and directing youth plays there. She undertook the pioneering work of teaching children with autism in the 1950s and 1960s, when little was understood about the condition, and wrote three volumes of everyday activities, taking pride in how the field later grew nationally. Familiar with sign language, she served as an interpreter for the hearing impaired and studied at SMU with hopes of aiding them through law. She and Sonny bought the Florence Art Gallery, which she ran for 25 years, hosting notable artists and welcoming figures such as Van Johnson. She was also president of a local civic organization and a member of an investment club.
Full Transcript
well good evening my name is mitchell myers and it is january 15 2019 and i have the honor and the privilege to interview estelle schwiff how are you this evening i'm fine thank you you're welcome so tell me your full name and birthday my full name is the still meyer schwiff my birthday is may 18 1923 so that makes you 95 years old that makes me 95. fantastic so estelle how many children do you have i have four children three boys and one girl jody i have seth ron and mitchell and my daughter jody and also debbie schwiff she's part of our family too fantastic do you have any grandchildren yes i do i have six grandchildren and three great grandchildren fantastic what are your names your well i have mitchell mitchell's children which would be alexa and logan i have ron's children which would be meredith and uh scott yeah and then the great-grandchildren are olivia riley and gavin very nice does your daughter have any children my daughter has two children and they
are very very darling to me and to my family and it's jody no jody's children um your grandchildren my grandchildren that would be um okay well let's let's move on so you have you said six grandchildren yes and three great grandchildren okay okay so tell me why if you know why you named your children seth ron jodie and mitchell yes i will some of them were named after relatives and the reason we named them after some was because these were respected family people and we wish to perpetuate the name basically and the rest of them is because it was a combination of uh musical beginnings
with the beginning of the first and last name very nice so um spouse you have a spouse or had a spouse oh i have a staff he's not here now with us anymore and sunny schwiff a delightful person that incorporated his family and my family to get a delightful person fantastic so in dallas when you were when you were here were you involved in any activities in dallas that you could tell us about oh yes a lot of activity especially because they had children that we needed to find out activities we played tennis we went visiting art galleries we uh played games and uh we
were basically a together family which i most enjoyed fantastic so uh did you have any jobs uh as a young oh yeah i did enjoyed every moment of it a lot of the jobs at the beginning were volunteers and uh i were i was a teacher at the jcc for uh little children that was fun you know and then i went on to more civilized organizations that needed help uh or the autism group the uh handicraft the hearing impaired group and so on so it was part of something that i had to do excellent so you told me earlier that you were a teacher and
you taught kids that had autism so you need to talk about that a little bit oh yes when i undertook a project of uh of children having autism it was a far removed uh knowledge of where did autism come from what was autism in other words there was no organization to help it but today i will say i'm very very proud that it is now national there are many organizations that sponsor make money for the research in autism and i felt that i was one of the starters and and proud of today's world as compared to 50 years ago yeah this was in the 1950s
or 60s that's correct so fantastic so tell me a little bit about more about you and uh what you like to do did you were you members of any clubs uh that that we should know about yeah well first of all i'd like to say i love tennis i try to play intelligently well that didn't happen i belonged to a financial club uh where there were 10 ladies who were interested in learning about buying and selling stock buying and selling real estate and at one occasion i took my son mitchell in the car with me and we drove down central expressway and there was a
big sign which said 50 acres for sale i was very excited i spoke to the agent who was in charge of it and said please come to my group and tell us about it and uh when he showed up and told us the price and everything i thought oh my god this is heaven we're going to be millionaires in the meantime one of the ladies husbands said ah don't be silly it's so far away bye sears and roebuck well that's the end of that story so you didn't end up buying the 50. no we did okay well that's too bad so uh you also told me you were you did plays you were director of plays oh with the jcc yes i enjoyed uh directing plays and using the youth in the jcc and i all i can tell you was it was fun so much fun i the director that was not a director and the students who were not actors were actors but but it was fun and you know it was fun and we uh displayed it and the parents came and they applauded i don't know why but they did well that's fantastic so your kids uh were
going to school here do you remember that they were born by men's food oh yes everybody was bar mitzvahed and they did well they were taught well and i was very proud of them because they were respectably or misfit very good very nice what synagogue were the kids uh sheriff israel fantastic so uh tell me about some of your friends when you were growing up in dallas or when you were here uh you know as a young adult oh i had so many lovely friends and it was so easy to have friends there was no complications we would meet together we would have dinners together
we would bring uh each friend would have dinners at each person's house bringing uh covered dishes yes cup of dishes and it was fun but unfortunately today they're not here and i do miss them but okay well that's great so um were you a religious family when you were here now i was growing up uh with your kids very moderately just through the bar mitzvah hebrew school and so forth school attending uh some services at sheriff israel but i would call us very moderate in our religion okay so what uh what advice did you try to instill in your children when they were growing up
yeah well i had a very strict code of what i wanted them to be and how do you want that to be successful by starting when they were very young respect is was very important family life was very important integrity was very important and also helping those that needed help uh basically that that's what i instilled and did it stick it stick i cannot tell you how proud i am today of my family they were supportive they are supportive and they're my family fantastic so were you a member of any civic organization i know we discussed a little bit about the neighborhood i was the
president of ben abreast yes and uh the civic organization that was i don't know if you call it civic but i studied to go to smu so that i could maybe become a lawyer but it was for a background pro bono for the hearing impaired there was no strong organization to help the hearing impaired and since i am so familiar with the sign language and love law uh unfortunately i i didn't make uh the qualifications that smu wanted but i had been called many times as an interpreter when they uh an occasion arose between not understanding the hearing and the hearing impaired not understanding the
speakers so could you say my name is estelle in sign language oh of course my name is estelle the sign language fantasy i think that's great so this is we're talking now about the 1960s in dallas and i know there was a lot of events that occurred that were probably uh profound i mean obviously the assassination of kennedy and his brother and can you talk a little bit about that time and well at that time growing up and having kids in there yeah at that time uh i i feel that my family they had they were impressed let's see they were impressed with the sadness
of the kennedys uh martha lu uh martin luther king yeah martin luther king some civil rights that were denied and uh going to the moon that was something so while they were in that period they were learning they were learning that's yeah it was a it was a troubling time in the 60s with the civil rights and so you may or may not have seen growing up in here in dallas with this some of the signs like whites only do you have any recall about that i do i have one recall where we were at a uh i don't know whether it was a a
mall or what have you but most specifically over the water fountain it said for whites only and then on the other water fountain it didn't say anything it just let you use your imagination yeah so i'm sure that had an effect on you and how you taught your kids as well is that correct yes i believe them that i did not appreciate division of people because of color race or whatever at that time and i feel very fortunate that my family grew up with some tremendous feelings of their own and that's why they are very important people today fantastic so what you're saying i guess
did it shape your kids the way they think about things today yes politically and yes about society yes so um i know at the time dallas was probably a very conservative city and you know i'm sure that shaped you and shaped your kids as well yes it was almost country uh it was almost like a country because you could travel on the roads there was room for cars and room for turning around and today is so crowded but uh that's progress that's growth and progress that's right um besides tennis what uh was there anything else that you enjoyed doing for fun with your family or
without your family oh yeah we uh tennis uh watching uh games at the schools i was a part of organization being a parent there when needed and we watched baseball football they were loud in dallas cowboys and they should be because this is our town but they were they were great in the 60s 70s right winning super bowls and we went to projects uh there were many school projects that uh in sports and activities so yes we were very busy you know you can't leave four children to do nothing we have to go we have to do we went to art galleries uh we went
to uh bazaars or i don't know what do you call it bizarre flea markets flea markets yes garage sales the right old estate sales oh yes fantastic so let's jump back into uh your life a little bit more and tell me about any uh jobs or businesses that you worked at or owned perhaps yes i'm i'm pleased to say that uh i started the florence art gallery with the help of the family that wanted to have a gallery and they loved art and they wanted to have excuse me they wanted to have art uh in their name and by art so they asked me to
run an art gallery little did i know about the art gallery but i always loved art i loved music i learned from very quickly very quickly and so the florence art gallery was established and there i was eventually the owner and eventually 25 years later i gave it up to my family well that's nice now who is the family that brought here and how did it how did it get here where was it from before uh the florists are garrett was established by giorgio in florence italy and uh we communicated and with the hands of the italian and went like this estella that's nice and
who was the family here in dallas uh mr and mrs gold mr mrs so you um was this this is the early 70s were you talking about yeah so you when did you come to own it well uh there were some difficulties uh within the gold uh family and uh this was more or less a burden to them and so sonny and i very quickly said we'll buy it and that's what we did we bought it and for 25 years enjoyed the pleasure of artists like van johnson zimbari i mean you name it and the florence art gallery brought them here like like flies they
wanted to be established in dallas and i was the only one that had that kind of a gallery most of them were southwest and western gallery so my timing was perfect really good fantastic so now van johnson is that the movie star van johnson the cute story if you don't mind he he someone presented his art to me and talking it over what the name van johnson well whether the art is wonderful or not he is and the lines were around the corner and people were issued in by police 30 at a time 40 at a time he was so gracious he was almost delicious
really very warm very uh understanding wonderful memory and he was the highest paid actor at that time well that's very cool any other actors or entertainers you enjoyed or saw at that time oh well i love music and so uh frank sinatra came here once uh-huh but i couldn't get him i just loved the music of frank sinatra i loved the the fabulous rhythm of michael jackson and i loved having uh orchestras big orchestras which there are none today there are none today you're talking about uh tommy darcy you're talking about uh harry james and so on and uh they they drew everybody for dancing
for happiness so you saw frank sinatra oh right not only did i see frank sinatra i stared right at him and he stared right back into my eyes and i'll never forget that did you know his eyes were blue i mean blue blue eyes well then they call them old blue eyes you fold them up yeah so that's great and michael jackson did you know michael jackson we took uh some guests to see michael jackson here and we sat believe it or not in the fourth row and believe it or not we never sat down because the first three rows stood up screaming he was
a marvelous entertainer he really was that's fantastic yes so what um professional accomplishments are you most proud of the step uh i i believe uh autism well first let me preface it by my family okay or professional so well that's a that's a profession okay yeah yeah i'm sorry housewife is a professional mother okay yeah um [Music] oh yeah so teaching autism teaching autism and uh it was so unbelievable that no one could understand what autism was or how it became a subject for little children that they knew had autism and didn't know how to handle it basically while i was teaching them i wrote
three volumes of everyday activity with them and but as i said before groups have come to understand autism is something to do with the nerves the lack of the nerves touching each other and today they they're wonderful they understand they can live sort of a normal life and they make money for research i think that's my proudest outside activity yes okay fantastic so also uh in the 1970s i don't know whether are there a lot of women business owners yeah seem like we're one of the few here maybe in dallas no today this word power is really true today there are more women on tv
on uh advertising on news and uh uh presidents of big organizations in my time maybe there's one or two or three or four but that was it women were put aside i think the world thought that women weren't as smart as men but if you'll excuse me women are very smart yes they are great so tell me uh what are your proudest moments as a mom or a parent seeing what my family is all about today they're supportive they're all comfortable they have homes they have children and it's it's nice to look at them now i don't have to bring them up anymore they're already
brought up there you go well that's fantastic so just a couple more questions and then we'll see if you have anything you want to offer besides what i'm asking you but so what is the one thing you would like people to remember about you well it would be hard to say there are so many people that are not here anymore to remember me and so that would be difficult but in my own mind i am proud of uh helping with the hearing impaired being an interpreter when required for and the autism case and uh i think that's enough of uh you know okay great so
um i guess to carry on like for future generations because of what you're leaving here what advice would you like to leave for the next generation uh well for the youth today or the people coming up today uh you own the united states now you must watch politics you must vote which is very important you must learn uh what the constitution is all about and live properly and fight for the rights that you believe in after all you are our future the youth is our future and today's world not satisfying at all in fact if i may just be personal i would say it's a
disaster and we don't need this what we need is unity and the youth of today you are you our unity okay i think that's great to leave to next generation it's fantastic so is there anything that that we didn't touch on that you want to add today estelle added if you feel we're finished and that i've satisfied the interview uh it's up to you to tell me if we're finished well as but is there anything you want to add to the interview well yes i'd like to boast a little if i might but both story okay we have a little organization at the where i
live and uh we are called the blow hearts and i'd like to say good night good night that's fantastic so let me just say thank you very much for letting me you letting me interview you today for the dallas jewish historical society estelle you've been a pleasure to talk to and i'm so happy i got to do this thank you so much i'm not usually so free to talk but it seems i didn't stop tonight did i did great hi my name is mitchell myers i'm here again with estelle and we are doing an interview on january 15 2019 and uh we are coming back
on to record uh make sure that estelle touched on all of her children grandchildren and great grandchildren well thanks mitchell that's very nice of you to do that in my enthusiasm i seem to have not forgotten because they can't forget my family but my son seth ron mitchell and my daughter jody and deborah schwiff who is also a member of our family and the wives are my daughter-in-laws are angela janice and teresa and uh one more time if you don't mind may i read about my uh grandchildren which would be scott meredith ari jake alexa and logan i i wouldn't miss saying that it for
the you're all so sweet i love you and then my great-grandchildren would be gavin and riley and olivia