Esther Golman
Esther Golman was raised in the early Jewish immigrant neighborhood of North Dallas, which residents called Frogtown or Goose Valley. Her mother, whom neighbors relied upon, served the community in countless ways, acting almost as a doctor, midwife, and nurse. She pierced ears, performed makeshift vaccinations, and was one of the few women who could read, gathering the neighborhood women on the porch on Saturdays to read aloud from the Yiddish paper, the Forward. Esther described herself as a curious, people-loving child who accompanied her mother on errands of mercy, including helping prepare for childbirths in neighbors' homes when Dr. White was summoned by horse and wagon.
The heart of Esther's recollections was the Donsky family, whom she considered as close as blood kin. She remembered Gittel Donsky as the most religious and immaculate woman she ever knew, one who would not answer the telephone on the Sabbath and who read the Yiddish translation aloud to the women at the separate section of the shul. Jake Donsky she recalled as a plain, hardworking, and devoted father who delighted in entertaining all the neighborhood children with hayrides and outings in his wagon or truck, and who once brought a player piano for the whole community to enjoy. Esther slept over at their home to keep Gittel company when Jake was away peddling.
Esther herself began working young, earning two and a half dollars a week as a cash girl at A. Harris and Company before rising to become a buyer for two departments. She married about fifty-six or fifty-seven years before the interview, and her husband, whom she called Daddy, had been gone thirty-three years. She spoke lovingly of the Donsky children, including the mischievous identical twins Ruby and Harry, along with Lakey, Sarah, Frieda, Nathan, Lewis, Honey, Peshki, Ida, Lottie, and Irvin. To Esther, the enduring closeness of that family, and the values of faith, respect, and shared labor instilled by their parents, stood as the finest example of a life well lived.
Full Transcript
The End . . . . . . . . . . . . . . And Timmy. That's how we knew her. And Timmy. Oh, so like you all grew up together. Yeah, for sure. Sure did. Now that was on singer? No, on Caroline. No, on Caroline. Oh, I thought we were getting. You were taking the pictures of the house? No, I'd like to do that. Have you seen it? I haven't even seen it. That's why I brought my camera for if you have time, we can go back. I was at work practice one day, and I thought I'd better be sure to show her.
She had something to do with the programming of NBC and sports here in the city. And I usually have a carrot around in my purse. I'm one of these sentimental times. And I can remember now, I was over there one night for dinner and I wanted to show it. It was a picture of her and she was interviewed by the journalist and Douglas Sontel. and it showed her picture and how she started. Julie's, don't you remember that time? Yeah. And it was a beautiful resume of what she had accomplished there, what she had done there. It's exciting. But then she married January the, I mean, June the 6th.
But not like any trouble, do you remember? No, I had so much medication in my memories, about as long as my thumb I can remember it from But anyway she met this fellow back His His name is Bob a little nice fellow And she married him And they remained up there until here about three weeks ago And they decided to move down here. He got his degree in teaching up there. Well, in New York, everything goes by seniority there. And people, he'd only been teaching for six years. And so, of course, he was one of the first ones that wasn't in New York when New York was having that sexy time.
I guess it was still that early, all of it. And so, of course, he was without a job. He has an uncle that is quite a tobacco, knows all about tobacco. He made a trip with Rockfellow on tobacco, saddled all over Cuba and all. So anyway, he's down here. While I was looking for that thing, I ran across this. I thought it was real funny. Do you understand Yiddish? Yes. Honey a little bit. Honey and I would. But I thought this was funny. It says, all I got was words. When I was young and fancy free, my folks had no time close for me. All I got was words.
God so, God so donkin, God forgettin, so minors, let one zang disun. When I was born to travel hard, they didn't provide me with a car. All I got was words. That means, rise means trip. I wish you could understand. Can you interpret, Mara? I'll start it off and I'll interpret it. I wanted to increase my knowledge, but they told me it's only the promise. Mr. Remembers it through the effort every time I see her, I remind myself, remember the instant that happened. I must have been six or seven years old where we lived on Fairline Street. Her sister, who was Ruth's mother, and the family lived on the corner, and they had a grocery store.
And we lived next door and she and her family lived across the street from the grocery store And it was getting ready to celebrate Peso I remember And in those days and times everybody used to keep a real pasticky house and everything Strict. Strict. And candy, you wouldn't think about buying candy. They made pasticky candy. And she was back there behind the grocery store in the kitchen making some pasticky candy. I never will forget this long time. It isn't terrible, but I can't even remember it, but I think it's... And she was mixing it in the pan, you know, and my lip, my... It was just watering to taste it.
And so she takes the spoon out, and I get ready to taste it, and I taste that out there. I'm sure I didn't do it intentionally, and I gave him a taste of this real hot candy. He's never forgiven me for it. So he likes to tell that story. Oh. But those were the days at that time I think all the people in North Dallas lived very very they shared everything together And that was the beauty of living in North Dallas now my mother and father they were I guess from the older residents that lived there and It seemed as if mama was the kind of a person that She was a doctor as she was everything she was a doctor she was a little white she pierced ears, she vaccinated.
I'll tell you a story about that vaccination which sounds terrible but it was actually the truth. It proves it's sterilization isn't everything. Years ago when people were so poor, they were all poverty poor at that time, and they lived down there and there was for one dollar you would be able to go to the city hall and you could get one vaccination for one dollar. Well, maybe those that could afford it and could spare that dollar, they would send one of the children there to be vaccinated, and they'd come back, and of course they wanted, and as I say at that time, why the people just thought they could, they didn't know any better, and they could try things.
And Mama was the kind of a person that was very adventurous about trying to do things. She would try anything. And so when this vaccination would start festering, why, Mama would remove that scab and scratch another person with a needle and then put this scar on that and she would have it there to stay there She fastened it some way where it would remain in place and in a couple of weeks why it would take And it sounds like, I say B.C. days, but that actually happened at that time. And she used to do that to so many of them that lived there in North Dallas.
sister used to kiss earrings. I don't remember that. No, I don't much think so. I think she'd rather, she used to like to fool him over the girls, more than the boys. Nathan always tells the story about Papa, you've probably heard it, about where he was cut with a lip with something and he went to, he was afraid to go home. And so Papa was sitting on the porch there and he says, Mr. Toblosky, I've hurt myself. Can you help me? And so Papa says, yeah, and Papa got out. I think he set a scissors and cut part of the lip. You get Nathan to tell you that story.
He tells me that. Oh, Nathan or I'm not Papa? No, Nathan. He went to Papa for help. He was afraid to go home. But anyway, going back to those were the things that she did. And then if anybody wanted pierced earrings, Mama pierced my ears. They're not exactly in the right place, but they were pierced. But, and then another thing that I can remember so much about Mama is when the Donsky family, they were just as close as blood kin. And when Ms. Donsky would get ready to have childbirth with one of the children, why, Ms. Donsky would come over and he would say, Timmy Gittlegates, I wish you could understand Yiddish.
She's going to have her baby. And they wanted Mama to come over there. At that time, years and years ago, doctors, they went in a horse and buggy, and there were no cars, and they seldom made night calls. And Dr. White has lived across the street from the St. Paul Hospital. I don't know if you remember that or not. Well, anyway, Mr. Donson had one of these great big, I think it was two horses, if I remember correctly, and a big wagon. and he put all of the older children in this wagon. And then of course Popple used to travel and there was no one with us at home, but anyway, whoever, I don't know whether what to went along or not, but I was the one that always went.
I always, I guess maybe I'm the one that takes ...after Mama than the rest of them. So everything Mama wanted me to do, I would do. And so he put us all in the car and Mama went over to Mrs. Donski's home. She sterilized everything, got all of the hot water ready and fixed the bed up and ready to receive the baby. And by that time, Mrs. Donski had gone and after this Dr. White and brought him to the house. And all of us kids went over across the street. That's where we live. while Mr. Mary Dr. White came over and he delivered the baby but at one time I don't remember whether it was Frida that Mama delivered Frida.
Have you ever heard her tell that? That was I think Simplestory. Oh yes she delivered two or three babies there in North Dallas. Any of the Gatydonskis? No I don't remember but I think it was Frida. Wasn't Frida born around Simplestory? Yeah Simplestory. Isn't it and your mama was in show and she told mama that she was feeling bad She says get forgave her hang and so that means come on home And she went over there and sure enough it wasn't but just a little while that Miss Donsky gave birth to her And I think it was Frida because I remember them saying it was Miss Donsky had gone to Simpsons Terry to this affair and All I can tell you that you should be very, very proud of your grandparents because they were unique people about so many things because Mrs.
Donsky, I think more so than your father, was a most religious person. I think that if there was anything that they wanted to know pertaining to religion or to household culture or anything else, she was the one that would give you the right advice. you could always depend upon her and the life at that time was hard on the parents naturally and the grandparents but they all seemed to get along and everything they had they shared and to me they're just wonderful memories i can't remember some things as well as i could a few years ago but i always used the nonski family as a special i remember another text you used to tell about the Rosenthal's and they were pets bad boys too.
There were four boys that was Ruby and Harry and Ben and Samuel Samuel I don think was much in that at that time And Ms Donsky was an immaculate housekeeper And oh, another thing I remember when Mr. Donsky used to go, he used to pedal too, didn't he? Why, Ms. Donsky, with all of the children, she was afraid to stay at home at night. So she always asked me to come over and spend the night. And I don't know, I think there were four or five of us who used to sleep in one bed. she was afraid but anyway I would always go over there with Mr.
Donsky but she was afraid. Am I telling something I was feeling? No. Well I think it's just the most beautiful life that anyone could live you know to think that they live that way and they were so satisfied and you could see by what the family what they produced that's the proof of the pudding when you bring up a family like the Donsky family i think that that speaks for itself but you were saying that she was very uh that she kept the house real immaculate oh yes something about the rosenthal boys oh yes i was uh one remember one time i remember miss donkitt was telling me she was real angry at the children and she had these they used to call them counterpins not bed spreads on the bed and there were two beds in that room and there was a window in that room and i'll never forget she used to say um rookie initially uh she had this bed made up just beautifully and they come in and they wanted to get him through the window and they came in and they trampled her bedspreads and got them dirty she was just ready to kill him You know which one is the Iskia Lagannes?
Yeah, they used to call him Rufki and Iskia Lagannes. The Rosenthal. The twin boys. The twin boys. The Donut they call them. But listen, they had, and now they were more mischievous and they were just terrible, the things that they used to say and do when they lived there in North Dallas. and Ms. Earl and the Lovers had this grocery store and their clientele were just kind of a, what shall I say, New York, what do they call that place in New York? Pardon? Where they had that melting pot of people in New York. They're all over. Yeah I know but particularly down there where all of these In the Bronx me Huh Bronx No not in the Bronx Yeah where they have No there a certain name that they give those people where they lived in the ghetto Well, that's what I was talking about.
Well, that was a ghetto. Yeah, that's actually what it really amounted to. Do you remember when we had a player piano? Do I remember? And everybody fought over trying to play the... Yeah, Miss Nosky got that, you know, for entertainment. That's one thing about the people. He got that? He's out there? Yeah, Mr. Donsky, uh-huh. That was entertainment. Not for his own family, but for the whole neighborhood, because they would come in, you know, they couldn't all go together. I was telling a story about Jakarta the other day. I think I told it to Frieda. Did I tell it to you? One day, I can remember Mr.
Donsky. He was just a loving and devoted father, and he was taking all the children to town. And there was something special that was downtown, and of course we lived in walking distance. And they always invited me to go along, and I went along with them. And Mr. Donsky had a card that there was going to be a special entertainment downtown. And he walked downtown with all of his kids, and he had this card, and he stopped the fellow, and I asked him, he says, do you know where the Academy Hall is? And so the fellow says, no, I don't mean I've ever heard of that.
And he walked further and he asked another man about the Academy Hall. So I said, Mr. Donski, and I guess I was probably older, the oldest one in the bunch. And I said, let me see that card. And I looked at the card and it was Academy Hall. So the next person he asked, he says, can you tell me where the Academy Hall is? He says, yeah, right down there. So those are the things that I think is important to remember. that they just strive so hard to give happiness to their families. And I think that's what the world is lacking today. They don't know what sharing is.
And I think you really knew my grandmother more than... Yes, because, see, I was growing up at that time. I always called her Mrs. Donsky, but she was known as Gittel. and Mr. Donsky's Jake. And they would always, well, I can remember on Sangher Avenue when they would always, they always managed to go visiting together and Miss Donsky was always ready to go Oh really Yes she was always the one I always imagined her staying at home all night oh no but of course yes and she was a wonderful cook too but i can remember on even as far back as sangha avenue when um miss donsky they would have early they called it suppers at that time and everybody you know they had supper at 5 30 or 6 o'clock and everybody sat down and eat at the same time.
But just as soon as they'd get through, everything was cleaned up. And then she'd say, Kum Jai Kum, which meant that, come on, we're ready to visit now. So, you would go ahead. No, well, that was, I'm going back to the same thing. People got so much more out of life at that time by enjoying each other, enjoying their families and enjoying friends. and they were satisfied. I guess maybe what impresses me so much about those pioneer days and the days of today that people are so unhappy and don't appreciate anything and they just don't know what it is. It's more of a television than visiting.
Right now everybody has a television or TV or something. They don't miss it like that anymore. No, but still they were in contact. Now, you know, when they were sitting at Chevy over at my daughter-in-law's father passed away here about three weeks ago, and we were sitting there, and Mario Chesky happened to come up, and he just loved Mama and Papa. and he was saying how much they had done for the community there in North Dallas. And so by that time, Roxy was there at the house and she was saying, well, I can tell you something else about the way people lived at that time.
She said that her mama, and I don't remember this, but Roxy, and I said to someone that was there, I said, did I hear Roxy say right? I said, you sure did. She said that Mrs. Sir Mary, her mother, used to walk all the way from Maple Avenue down to where we live in North Dallas. It was called Frogtown then, or Goose Valley. Goose Valley. Were you? Well, at Georgetown, what did they call it? Goose Valley. Goose Valley. Frogtown. Frogtown. Well, Frogtown, I think that's the name more or less from the Shuffling when Ms. Rosenthal was in the grocery business. And she had, do you remember Aunt Sally?
You don't remember her? No, I forget that I'm 78 years old and I'm trying to compare them to these youngsters. But they had this old colored woman, which they were really slaves, she and her husband. She made her living by, on Saturday morning, where the religious people weren't allowed to light bars or use a match. or even, now I think Ms. Donsky was the only one, she wouldn't answer a telephone. When the phone would ring, she just wouldn't answer it, because by picking up the phone, she was doing... Well, she did it first, until she went to Marlin when they used to go, and when she saw, when she called home, she saw when she picked up the receiver, that her light went on, and then she went over to...
Was that the one? Well, I thought all the time she remembered that. But that's most unusual things, too, that she did. There was something else that I wanted to say. Let me see if I can remember now what it was. And I remember on Saturday, I was, I remember when it was South Dallas or something years old. And I remember on Saturday, all the women used to come over here, you know, poor air connection and sit on the front porch, and Mama used to read them in the paper, because very few people were able to read. And my mother was, my Mama was one of the very few people that could read, you know, in the reading.
She couldn't read anything. Have you ever heard of a forward, F-O-R-W-R-D? That was a Jewish paper that was published in New York. Oh, yes. Well, they have another. You know that Ruth Stitzke, she gets all of these papers from New York. In fact, she got Annette so interested in it, so Annette even subscribed to it. And it's just full of information, and I enjoy reading it, too. See, in the years ago, you know, the way the Bible is now, on one side it's Hebrew, on one side it's English. used to be one side Hebrew and on the other side It's called Ivry. A translation but in other words one side was Hebrew and the other side was Yiddish Is that right That right Now she used to read the every part see To everybody, she had an audience around her.
They would all stand around her. All the women in the neighborhood. All of the compliments. You see, at that time, the men and the women sat in different places. the men our synagogue too bad she doesn't um didn't get to see the synagogues of the the shows of north dallas well they'd have them in the yard just like that kind of wood where the women sit i think i think you do i bet that building is still there do you think it is much along highland no no they still don't did she knock down the house that we live in or is that house still there on caroline No, I think they converted that into a...
No, I wouldn't remember. Do you know, Uncle? I don't know whether it's a story about it. No, I think they made a kind of a store out of that. You know, they extended the Lakers store into the other. And Miss Bauman, do you remember Miss Bauman? Yeah. Do you remember Miss Bauman, the German woman? Yeah, I remember. The same block as well. Do you remember Miss Cromen? Cromen. Cromen, that little woman who had a tall husband. They lived on the other side of the street. Oh, they were the Montserrat and the whole... Is that a Montserrat? Yes, I know that. Stumbergum. You have a master of the most of the kids.
Huh? A fortune here at Montserrat? But as I say, it was... They had all kinds... I was going to tell you about this woman that was there used to come to my sister's stores and her droplet's old store these two slaves were this woman made her living by going around to these jewish families and she would build their fires in the winter and then she would come up until about one o'clock she would refuel those those fires so that these jewish people wouldn't have to do that themselves that was a oh that was a It was a cardinal sin to do anything on Saturday. I remember they had gas.
I remember the wood stove. I remember the wood stove. And you all remember that little sugar thing. She was just, I think she weighed maybe 75 pounds, ringing wet, and her husband was a slave, and he made his living going fishing And he come in every Thursday and all the Jewish women would go down there to try to get this fish Because like us you could get a fish that big that maybe weighed three or four pounds for 25 cents For it. Yeah. But anyway, this Sally was her name and she would get a pension check and she would come into Lakey's store. Lakey is my sister, Ms.
Rosenthal. and she would want to buy a supply of groceries. And she was so illiterate that she wasn't able to count money. So she'd get this check and she'd say, Miss Lehman, now give me so many dimes and so many nickels and so many quarters. And that's the way she shopped. But she wasn't capable of adding any amount of money. And Laker would be just as patient with her as she could be and she'd say, now Sally, you've got a dime worth of that. That's either two nickels or one dime, or you've got a quarter's worth of this. And the reason I mention this is because there were so many different kinds of people that lived down there, and it seemed like the Rosenthal store was kind of a place where everybody congregated.
And then, yeah, and if there was any news media, why, they would all get it right there. But going back to the show, I want to tell her about the show, Michael. In this show, they had, oh, well, a much larger chorus for the men, and then they had it screened off. And then the women sat on the other side, strictly separate from the men's division. And that's when Ms. Donsky, when we talked about, she would stand up there, all of these women. oh she would do it up there in the shoulder in the shoulders where she would read this uh bible or uh um yeah translation um yeah the uh sitter oh there's a lot of reasons Now, honey, that's true.
That's not fiction. No, that's actually, that's what they believed in. And that was the reason they had it. Now, I understand in Houston they have one that way, don't they? Don they have a show No they changing over everything in Houston they do No the rabbis the orthodox congregation the rabbis leave and they have a young rabbis in the late 20s or early 30s but a real Orthodox rabbi and he suggested you know that they have a separate seating for the women and he leaving them there on the next month Really? Well, let me ask you some other, a couple of things. One of the things I'm interested in is how was it that Grandma got to be, how did, you know, anything that...
Well, honey, that was, honey, that was because she was, that was imbued in her childhood, I imagine. You didn't know anything about that? No, no, because when I knew Miss Nansky's... I would never know if someone said that Mama's father came to America. No, that I wouldn't remember. Would you remember? There was no religion. He didn't like it. He went back. Now that I don't remember. Yeah, I learned that too. Because I imagine your mom was married pretty young. Yeah. She was about 20 or 22. Did you know, you knew her then when she was fairly young, right? Honey, I didn't know her until after the family, when she began rearing her family.
Well, she was pretty young then. Don't have any pictures at all. Do you all have any pictures of your mom and papa? Sure, you have those lovely pictures. Sarah has them on the wall there. But I mean, years and years ago. Yeah, when they got married, we had a picture. Yeah, I remember. I remember that gardenia on your... Then I have a picture of her. I think it was when she was single. Oh, yeah. No, I remember Miss Donsky when she was... Her family were growing up. Because, listen, how old would your mama have been had she... She died when she was seven, when she died.
And she's been growing how many years? 48. She was 48 years. She was 98. So she was 98 years old. Well now you see, I'm 78, so she was 20 years older than I was, is that right? So by the time you would remember she was probably around 30 years older. Yeah. Because you would have had him. What do you remember after him? When you were a little girl, what do you remember her being like? What, what, honey? When you were a little girl, what do you remember her being like? Uh, well, um... Your mother was rather dark and flexed, wasn't she? No, she was olive.
Olive, yeah, olive. Uh-huh. And she had light hair, and, uh... She was, as I say, a very, very neat woman, and she... Well, I think... Well, I think, thinking of the family, I think, honey, you look like your mother. Has anyone ever told you that? I think so. I think the boys look like Miss Dunstead. Wouldn't you think something like them? Well, I think they all look an awful lot alike, but I think they all tend to look more like Mrs. Donsky than Mr. Donsky. I think Bessie is... Your mama? I think Bessie had... Your mama had high school, blonde hair. Yeah, blonde. What was she like?
Well, I remember her as being a very busy, busybody, and I guess I remember her of her character more than anything else, and I think that's important to remember. She was just, as I say, a unique person, a very fine character, and a very religious woman. And by, as I say, her products and all, you know that those things have all been imbued in the children because I don't think there's a finer family in the world than the Bonsky family. She never forced a religion on it. She never what? She never forced a religion on it. Well, honey, but I bet she did force it, so that don't mean anything.
No, but... What I mean by that, her religious, she is long, she lived in, listen, y'all weren't babies then when she passed away. But we all respected her very, very highly. We never did. All of them. We never... Even our friends did this month, we never spoke at my eye-hand time tomorrow. the greatest respect in the world she had from her family and as i say these are the i think is what makes a a wonderful character what if what if you all did something wrong that she didn't mind i bet she didn't know about it i bet she didn't know about it because no honey uh they they were a very respectable family and i um naturally uh you you have nothing to say there You have no fault of fines and that most unusual And I repeat again that the way the family has grown and to care for each other like they do, that shows fine rearing and I think to me that's most important.
when a person in a family leaves a name like that, to me the Donsties will always be legendary in my mind because I don't have another family. And I just, as I say, I just happen to be, I guess I was a nosy kind of a person or something. I was interested in everybody, and I love people to this day. I love to be around people. I enjoy the people. She's been making homicides. world. Ms. Donsky? Oh yes, they were very observant of all of all the rules. When I say that she was the most religious woman that I've ever known, but in the same token, if I remember correctly, Ms.
now not Ms. Robinson and not Ms. Weiner I don't remember her quite so well but Mrs. that Simonson now she was she must have been religious that's right and the one thing I remember about her she wore that chaitle all the time I never knew her and those are one of the things that very religious people always did transformation Transformation. That's what they used to call them, a transformation. A wig is actually what it is. But now Mrs. Simonson always wore a wig. I never saw her without it. And I'll tell you something to you. Oh, a faceli. You know what a faceli is? Yeah, sure you do a show.
A show around the back. Your mama had. I think your mama had a red crochet one. I still have one that she would do a bench that. Yeah, red. I find that to put out here. And I'll step out that and I need to move in my life. Really? Hello? Hello? Yeah, honey. How did they leave you, honey? I was like, I'm going to say something. Yeah. Talking about things. Oh we just right in the middle of our story Reminiscing Yes Your past though you been talking about how she was clean from bottom to top I tell you the same thing with I've got a picture, if I can read it right there.
Well, you know, I still put boards down. They want some money. Yeah, they want me. They need some money. Are you the banker of the family? I'm the banker. Are you? Can you tell me a little bit about each of the kids back there, about what the kids were like as kids? Well, I tell you, all I can tell you is when it was time to go to work, they had to go to work. Who got them to work so hard? Well, honey, it had to be a feud in them because their parents worked hard. They worked by the split of their brow. And I think that's probably the reason.
And they had no money, honey. They had to do for themselves. They're my brother. Tell them, Uncle, how you started out. Honey, I myself, and as I say, I'm 78 years old, I work for $2.50 a week. I was a cash driver at A. Harrison Company. That's right. And years and years ago, honey, you were lucky if you graduated. Now, how many in your family graduated? College. No, I mean high school. Now, honey graduated high school. Honey and Mason and Irvin. And Lottie. And Lottie. That's all. And if that's you and if that's you and I'll... No, honey, they had to go to work. That's the way it was.
They had to put them on that table. Yeah, so they had to help. You know, in a hurry there was a large family. And they got home from the Jewish one of them. The Mason was the only one they went to that school. How was it divided up when you got into school? The best you could iron dress is your iron. Do you know what... Excuse me, do you know what the word Beri means? Beri is... how do you define that? Oh, Balabosti. Have you heard of a bottle busting? A good plan, too. Well, a very, it means someone that just can do everything and anything.
And that's what their mother was. And that's the way the children were taught. And, you know, there's not a lazy woman in the bunch. You know that. That's why, for this day, I still wash the dishes. I get up the first thing from the table and wash dishes. You, but that was your job? No, but it was always that way. Everybody worked. I started off working for A.R.S. and Company as a cash girl. I made two and a half dollars a week. And however before I married which was 57 years six years ago I would say I was making a week and they tell me that was a constant salary at that time.
But then I was buyer for two departments. But I always enjoyed work and years ago I think anybody, they lived on a kind of a... Yes, Gussie Seltzer used to live over there. I had one. What did you say, Michael? Gussie Seltzer. Do you remember that? No, I bet they don't. Michael, her name was Seltzer. I said, that's what I said. Oh, I thought you said Seltzer. Do you remember Gussie Seltzer? No, her husband's name was Morris. No, that was not a thing before their time. Did the girl say something about the Levines and the Levines? Sure, when they first came here, one of them stayed at Arne Alton.
Oh, well, you know who that was? You don't remember the... Well, now, of course, Honey is one of the younger ones, but I bet Nathan remembers them. Who? Sure. All those Levines that lived down there that had the Levine stores. Well, they lived over the whole barn in Wichita Falls. Yeah. No. Honey, how old are you? I'm 47. I made that. 64. Now, well, I knew he was around the twins age, but, of course, you're younger than the twins. I'm 64. 64. The twins, I think, are 68, aren't we? 67. 67. Well, but you don't have any fights together, honey. Yeah. No, I never did fights with them.
Rube and Harry were always tough. And especially Harry would be walking down the street and he'd see somebody, and he'd just, you know, one fight, and it hit him. One of the cutest things I think the story that I like to always tell, and the boys tell it and get the biggest kind of laughter out of it, when they were twins and they looked identical, they were identical twins, and Ruby would take the girl out, he'd pick the girl up. You've probably heard the story, haven't you? Yeah, I can imagine. But anyway, he would have a date with this girl and they would go to some kind of a dance and Harry, he would also have a date and they would go to the same dance.
And then towards the last, why, they would exchange dates. And when they would be taking the girl the dates back, why, they would have to say, well now, where was it I picked you up? I can't remember which house it was. The girls never did know that the dates were changed. It was Harry that, um... Yeah, so they changed that's the way, but they were always full of devilments. But they had a good time, enjoyed everything, and they were wonderful. They were regular ballroom dancers. They used to be afraid of the fan function to be up on Mason. Yeah. And you remember Halloween? It's not like that now.
Years ago when we lived in North Dallas, poppies had taken the chairs off the porch next day. Oh, yeah. If not, they would take them the next morning. you'd see chairs up on telephone poles and lockers. Well, they've done that out here. That's what they used to do. They used to have a fence. It came off in a fence. Yeah. And throw all of these old tomatoes and rotten eggs and everything else. I remember Harry Miseroff one time. You know, he was the Iron Man. It was somebody's wagon. It wasn't, you know, real, but he was like iron, you know. Yeah, all of the Miseroffs were.
Yeah. He took his wagon and put it on top of the roof. Really? Well, they were pretty bad. They were about doing things that were mischievous, I would think, would be more that they wanted to actually mean. Now, I tell you, you talk about families. The Banks family. Now, you talk about a family. You know, I guess in every community or in every area, they're good and bad. and this family this won't be on that river you want to be talking about we had we had three bedrooms I'll tell you exactly we have two bedrooms in the living room he used to call it a front room Everyone in the house to the left was the big room where you had the east of the street, that man would have that.
See on him? Yeah. Then over to the right. There's a three-bedroom. There's a three-bedroom. You had a big kitchen. And you had a dining room that was right next to the kitchen. You went out to the porch. The porch. The porch. Right. all slept on the porch. Well, I slept in a bed. Yeah. Oh, we slept on the porch. He didn't see us. Well, the house on San Gracie was the same. Oh, I see. Everything was peaceful around there. It wasn't that, you know, that's right. He didn have that fear of being There was no lock in the door Yeah No everything was wonderful I want to ask you about I haven heard much about Mr Donsky Well Mr Donsky he was a plain hard man and as I say a wonderful father and a wonderful provider And in those days, particularly I think parents that had large families, there was just something about them that they managed to do more for their families than people that had maybe one or two or three children, don't you think?
But they were so, they were just hard-working, honest people. And Mr. Donsky, I can remember, was it Mr. Donsky that... I remember this when I was just a young kid, that when they ran the ice, had the... Ice truck wagon. that, you know, Joe Barshett used to work for him. Lloyd Barshett. Lloyd Barshett. Yeah. And I was able to get up about 4 o'clock in the morning and fix breakfast for everybody. And I'd get up about, you know, have breakfast 4 o'clock in the morning. And then you had some more at Panty that he used to work for us, too. And then Letty used to, he used to bring me ice on Colonial.
I thought you liked something. Do you really? Yes, you did. I worked in the summertime for them. Yeah. That was the long craft later. Lakey always likes to tell, I don't get to Sterling very often, which I sure do miss, because it was a kind of family down there. When I go there, why, it's like a family store, I think, to this day. And I think one of those, one of the requisites of success is by living that way, way and everybody knowing everybody and I miss going down the I mean to Sterling but not let you would see me three times a week he'd say Esther I know how old you are he used to love to tell me that and he has the best memory about remembering how old Muckle was and he he has he He could give you a pretty good life story too.
Who's that? Uncle Lewis. Lewis, I don't know. Lewis Donsky. Mm-hmm. He has a good memory. What was he like as a little boy? Well, he was kind of quiet. He wasn like the rest of the family I don think he was a quiet good good boy He got to mess around bad children when he was a young boy I didn't know him to do anything bad. But anyway, it's... Well, tell me what he went down to California to work. Well, he left town when he was about 16 years old. Really? Well, you see, about that time then I was married and was away from the family.
See, after all... But you only knew him when he was a little kid. Not exactly. You know, just when Honey told me that he was coming, we used to have a picture, and my husband, all of a sudden, I always told him Daddy, whenever the Gonskis would come over, I never will forget, Daddy would always... Yeah, there was a picture there. Y'all may have it. I don't know. I looked for the picture and I couldn't find it. Somebody picked it up. I wonder if it could have been Ruby or Harry. They took some pictures and I never did hear or see them. I must find out about them.
But anyway, this picture was, Lepke was in, Cerkey was in the high chair. who said sarah and another thing about the bus huh hadn't you circuit was in the high chair and lakey was standing beside well that's going to freedom the high chair of lakey standing beside no this wasn't clear this was sarah and lakey and somebody else oh my gosh she's gonna hide that it got so fun no no not i can i please have some coffee or some wine or something and uh my god i've got a box of candy in there oh oh does she have one too she can have three or four you know is the general rule i've had a mate for 27 years and she passed away here five years ago and since that time i just had one and then another and i went down uh to look in the freezer and I know I had a whole can of What's the name?
Of Marble? A whole can of marble bread and I couldn't find it high or low but I did have this tiffle. I used to make these. No, thank you. I'm mostly interested in hearing about family. Yeah, well I you know I think those about the highlights that I think are important in trying to remember I know one time the girls had a hayride Oh yes, I remember those. Well, let me see. Don't forget, that goes into the age again. But we couldn't go, but I mean Papa used to write it. Oh yes. Mr. Donskill used to love to entertain all the kids in the neighborhood.
and that was, as I say again, on account of his large family, that he just wanted everybody to... How did he like to do that? How did he like to do it? Oh, it was easy for him. He always had a big wagon or a big truck or a big something. Can I fix you some coffee? It'll take me two minutes. I want to be obligated. And I didn't hear what he said. He doesn't want to be obligated. Oh, well, I'll tell you, after Elk, I don't hear so good. I don't see so good. I'm just terrible but about this family tree I was not tell you either about this woman that had this family tree that I thought was so beautiful she made a family tree that she had it made rather However, they're from Minneapolis, I think they are.
And there was a huge family of them. And she had this, it was kind of a gold-looking tree. And it had the branches. And this family tree showed each family. And what I thought was most interesting about this particular picture, she had it framed in a size picture. It must have been about 18 by 20. and they had their birth dates and their names in Hebrew and their names in English. This family wouldn't fit on one of that size, I don't think. What you were saying that Mr. Johnson liked to entertain her children. How did he like to do that? Take them for rides, get them together and the coming over.
He had a truck, but not a truck in the wagon. Well, he did have a truck, too, at one time, didn't he? later. Oh, no. I was like, I'm asking you, that was a small truck. Oh, was that in? I remember that that cut. Oh, really? It was very big dog one time. We came after her in the truck. She was someplace. Oh, really? She was embarrassed to ride in the truck. Well, I believe, then it was a wagon, but I remember very distinctly, but the wagon at the time went after Dr. White. It's not bad I can remember. Oh, yeah, but, uh-huh. We never did have a wagon.
or any kind of a gasoline vehicle before we were outside. You know, Morris Edmund, he used to always boast. You remember Morris Edmund. And they were really the first ones in North Dallas that had a car. And he'd go around saying, My papa's the richest man in Dallas. We've got a Buick. Now, they were the ones that had the first car. Well, they were the ones too. And then Uncle Izzy, that's another, that's an uncle of mine. He too had a large family. But yet, I don't think Uncle Izzy's family was as colorful as the Donsky family. There are just so many things that I personally think are...
Like Sarah Sue said, she's a large family, and when parents are living, they stick together. But she never saw, when the parents are gone, that the families get so close together as our family. Because after the parents are gone, they each get their own relationship. Well, I think that's true. I think that's true. you know, you live together, pray together, and I think that when those things are instilled in you while you're young, I think there's a general rule that goes on and on. Who was it that you saw and stole that? Who was it that... Do you think it was both parents and... Well, I think possibly, I think Ms.
Donstie was more or less the one because don't you think it usually is the mother? the father is busy trying to make a living well now maybe up today now I'll go by my children in Joe Herman's family Joe Herman rules the roost over there Francis I think gives in a little bit more but I think Joe Herman would be more and in Annette's family I think she's the one that Bill is stubborn and he don't give in but usually I think the kids pay more attention to Annette's I really do. I think there has to be one. What if she got those stuff and had to be a mail it to her?
I don't know. They're in Houston. They went down. Hal Terry. You know, I sold all of them. Really? Have you got some more you want to sell? I don't have any more. Do you think you'd be able to? Uh-huh. Because I was going to go to the office, and that Saturday I sold the last one, and I had me two things with stuff in my purse. Yeah. And then I had the two in my pocket. You're not going to sell me anything, yes, ma'am. You can sell him a book out. Listen with the charity that you do I not soliciting No, I'm not soliciting. Honey, please, don't I feel badly about it.
I know the charity that they do. And there's just never a... If I had the books, I would sell it, so I'll sell it to them. Get rid of it. You give me credit. But don't don't say, Mom. Honey, I hope you win. Okay. I'll sure let you know. You can put my phone number out. Yeah, I sure will. Thank you so much, because this is a... We're interested in this Mizrahi. It's where we take care of 7,500 children in Israel. And give them... Yes, and give them an education and schooling. They turned to one study center. They took JoJo and Gail and Jerry Slate and Lottie's son to Israel last October on a VIP mission.
Really? I think you all had a wonderful time, didn't you? You know, I have never known anyone, I mean amongst the youth, that had gone to Israel that didn't want to go back again. Now, Annette's daughter, Susan Lee, she's going to be 16 years old, and she, I think, is going on that trip. Golly. I want to ask her some more questions. Okay. Let her ask you some more questions because I've got to go. Okay. I want to hear about each of the kids when they were little. You start off with me. They were good. They were good. They played together. Y'all never did fuss or fight or anything.
Oh, come on. No, no, I really don't ever remember. The only thing I remember is when they got older about who used to get in those fights would be that's from Sarah. You know, I can always, I always say, Plenty kinders, plenty sorers. Graces kinders, graces sorers. I guess when they're little. When they're little, she says, when they're little, they're little trouble. When they're big, they're big trouble. But, no, I don't think the doctors have that to worry about. I think they were very companionable. Okay then I ask you about each one at one time I hope you see me too Well what was he like when he was young Well now I tell you well Honey he was a little bit too young You don't remember that?
I always remember as Honey being a good looking and a very popular man. He's called Honey Boyd. Yeah, Honey. I'll never get over the fact that you didn't change your name. is you become a successful businessman. My name's an aide. Yeah, but they don't call you aide, do they? Oh, and some people do. Do they? Well, you know, I think that name is most unusual to go through life, don't you think, with that name? And I think it's a compliment. But, and then, of course, with Pesky, that's that's that's and another thing i want to tell you that i think is so at least it is with me to remember all of their jewish names and i can almost remember everybody that's named that they were um named for now with latke i don't remember well see now i don't remember that well the next one in line freedom was named after mama's mama yeah freedom and then uncle nathan's named after mama's talking yeah i don't know she evidently must have been from the yes now but then the other the younger ones she was named for miss weiner i think well then there was a second name too abram honey yeah i'm brown coming well that's what uh that's where i got the honey really that's uh ibruglaker uh i know that if with joe herman You know, yes, I know.
And, uh... I don't know about it. Well, I'm telling you, best... Who? Yeah. No, not the Simon's boy. No, not the boy. Oh, I... You mean Jimmy? No, he died. Long time. He was a cute little boy. Funny he's always been a handsome boy, and a popular man. A popular man. Do you know how to have a picture of him sitting by the flag? Uh-huh. Um well and then with Pesky of course I feel like with Pesky I guess it because before Pesky married that this Harry stayed over at my house Did you know that on Colonial When he first went in, I think he was working at that time.
I'm just going to be married so many years. And anyway, Daddy and I invited him to come over there and stay before they got married. And so he stayed at our house several weeks. and I always will remember that because I'm so fond of Harry and fond of Peshti and if there ever was a friend in the world that I could call a friend next to my relatives and of course sometimes your friends are better than your relatives but after my husband's passing that they have never, never forgotten me and for years and years whenever they wanted to go any place they would always invite me to go along with them.
And another thing, Daddy's been gone 33 years. Pesky and Harry have never forgotten to remember his birthday, not his birthday, the day of his passing. And I'll tell you another one, it's Francis Wolfe. And I think that's a record. When friends can remember a friend each year for 33 years, I think that's most unusual. But now talking about Pesky and then of course Circuit, she was just the cutest little girl that you ever want to see. She was always full of them vigor and vitality. She was always chasing the furniture around. Oh, yes. They were always such good housekeepers. And, well, of course, Ida, I can remember her as always being sweet, Ida, truthful and being sweet to everyone and wonderful to her mother.
Ida, you was a little bit more, I think, attached to your mother. The others were married already and Ida seemed to be close to her mother, I think. And I think that's right. And I think later when Papa dies, but then I'll call her. Yes, that was either. Uh-huh. Now, who have I left out? Now, Lottie, of course, Lottie was always a beautiful, beautiful girl. I can remember Lottie just specifically yesterday. She used to come into the beauty shop, the same beauty shop in Sardis. And I used to always say, talking to Lottie and... Lottie was the nurse of the family. Yeah, she was the nurse of the family and she...
But I'll, you know, just before she passed away, she was in its artist and she just looked beautiful. And then soon after that she became ill. But I thought Lottie was always a stunning looking girl. And so, who's the baby of the family? And Irvin, well Irvin, just a busy, busy father. I remember when Irvin was born and when the three of us. Do you remember that? No, I don't. I'll tell you what I do remember, though, I remember I was in the hospital visiting one time, and Francis had come out there to have her first child, and I happened to pass her room, and she was in bed, and she had already delivered, and she was just beautiful.
Francis. Francis Dotsky. I always tell her about that.