Fannie Schaenen
Fannie Feldman Schaenen was born in Fort Worth, Texas, to parents who emigrated from Russia around 1905 and settled near her father's sister who had already come to Fort Worth. After a brief period when the family lived in Canada, they returned to Texas, where her father opened the American Iron and Metal Company. She was the youngest of four children. Her father was an intense scholar with a deep Jewish and Hebrew education and a great lust for knowledge, always traveling with his English dictionary. He instilled in his children a love of learning and of Zion, and was an ardent Zionist who visited Palestine three times before it became Israel. Her mother was active in Jewish community causes including Hadassah and sisterhood, going door to door to collect funds.
Raised in Dallas, Fannie attended Miss Wormser's private school, City Park Elementary, and later St. Mary's, where she was the only Jewish girl and was sent so she could practice violin during study periods. She received Hebrew and Sunday school education connected with Sherith Israel and was confirmed there. A dedicated musician, she played with the Dallas Symphony at about age 14 under conductor Paul van Katwijk. She went on to study at the Chicago Musical College and in New York at the Manhattan School of Music and Juilliard. In 1934 she married Bernard Schaenen, a lawyer who gave up his New York practice to join the family firm, and after a few months in New York the couple settled permanently in Dallas.
Fannie's life changed course after the Holocaust when Julius Scheps asked her to help with the Federation campaign around 1946. Despite no organizational experience, she became a gifted fundraiser and public speaker, serving as chairman of the Women's Division and later general chairman. She was president of Family Service, chaired the family and children's division of the Council of Social Agencies, and served on the boards of United Way and the Dallas Symphony. Nationally she became the first president of the Women's Division of the United Jewish Appeal, serving three years, and made dozens of missions to Israel, which she counted among the highlights of her life. She and Bernard raised a son in New York and a daughter in Philadelphia, and she remained active in cultural causes including the SMU summer conservatory of music.
Full Transcript
And it is November the 3rd, 1982, and we are talking with Mrs. Bernard Shainan, or Fannie Feldman Shainan, who is a native Dallasite. This is Ginger Jacobs, and we are talking with Mrs. Shainan on behalf of Dallas Jewish Archives. How many years have you lived in Dallas? All my life. I was born in Fort Worth but came here at a very early age, so I consider Dallas my home. Are you the first generation? Did your parents come to the United States? Yes, my parents emigrated, I think it was in 1905. They came from Russia and settled in Texas because my father's sister had already settled in Fort Worth and having family here, we migrated to, now this was before I was born.
Yes. And then we, my father was in business and for a while I think the family moved to Canada for a very short period, then came back to Texas, and my dad opened up the, what was then the American Iron and Metal Company. Um, what was the fact that brought your dad to Texas, to Dallas? Well, the fact that he had family in Fort Worth, and then I imagine, as I recall, the business opportunity in Dallas was better for making a living for his family. How had he trained? What was his... My father? Yes, what did he do before he came? Well, I don't remember that far back, except that I do know that he had a very intensive Jewish and Hebrew education.
He was a very intense scholar. He never traveled without his dictionary, his English dictionary, because he had a very curious, he was curious about everything. He had a great lust for knowledge And if he ever ran across a word that he didn understand he always had his dictionary there with him And he imbued and instilled this love for knowledge in all of his kids And the love for Zion and the Jewish people was a very, very important part of our upbringing. My mother too was quite involved in the community. She was very active in care of Israel, sisterhood, Hadassah, and my reflections of her going from door to door, collecting the money.
It's very vivid in my memory. I guess now that fundraising ability perhaps came from her. Did you ever go with her? No, I didn't because I was too busy practicing the violin at that time, piano. So what happened, I was the only Jewish girl at an discrepating school, then it was called St. Mary's. I was sent there because my violin teacher taught there. It gave me an opportunity to do my practicing during study periods because I really was a very serious, musical student and had visions of really getting somewhere. On the concerts days or something like that, when it interfered with my parents. What about your Jewish education?
I went to Hebrew school, I went to Sunday school, I had private tutoring for a while in Hebrew. Much to my regret, I can read it, and even though I've been to Israel so many, many times, I'm not able to converse in Hebrew. But I hope before too long, maybe I can. That's been one of my hidden desires, to really learn it as a speaking language. What type of Hebrew school was there when you were in the Hebrew school? It was connected with Sheref Israel. It was part of Sheref Israel. Was it housed in the building? In the building What were the classes and when what days did you study I went I think four days a week not on Fridays Can you give me the time frame about what year?
About 1920, 24, from 20 probably to 26. What about religious school at Sherith Israel? Did you go to religious school at Sherith Israel? I went to Sunday school, only Sunday school, every Sunday. I was confirmed at Sherith Israel. Now, was the Hebrew program connected with the Sunday School program in any way? No. No, the Hebrew school was separate in the college. When you, you mean, I don't know in what reference you mean. When you studied Hebrew. Yeah. Was that class in the Sheriff Israel building? Yes, yes, yes. They had separate rooms, just like they did for the Sunday school, but this was just for afternoon Hebrew classes.
Did the synagogue insist that the students go to Hebrew school? No, nobody insisted, except that my family felt very strongly about our having an intense Jewish education. What type of subjects did you study in Hebrew? Elementary, really, not anything advanced. I never got that far. Now, my brothers did because they had very intensive private tutor. And then Rabbi Warner, Jacob Warner, I don't know what that was. I can't think of his name. The rabbi had two sons, Benjamin and Jacob, who taught Hebrew school. And Jacob, when he gave me some private instruction. Was it primarily for reading? Uh-huh. Unfortunately, that was the way it was taught in those days.
Today it's not like that. So that why I not I didn exactly know what I was reading I read the prayers in the prayer book but without the transliteration I would not have known what I was doing Now what was Jewish education in itself like in Dallas as you were growing up during that time period? Well, there were some pioneers, my father one of them, and Harry Siegel and Ike Sessmer. They were the founding fathers of the Hebrew school and really were the motivators. My recollection of the actual curriculum and all of that, I don't have that. I really can't help you with that. Did they found it as an independent Hebrew school?
No, you're talking about the United Hebrew School of Dallas. Is that what you're referring to? Actually, the Hebrew School of Dallas before it became the United Hebrew School. That's what my father was saying. You know, I really don't have the information about it. I know that he was involved, but I didn't know anything about the mechanism or the composition of the school. Too much about it, so I don't know. Do you have any insight into what the Temple religious school was like? Or was there any? Rabbi Lefkowitz was not a great Hebrew scholar, a lovely, sweet man. That was a very, very elementary kind of Hebrew education.
Other than that, I'm not familiar with what they do. What about your secular education? You mentioned you studied the Bible and then you went to Well, I was the only Jewish girl there. I had no problems. At least, I didn't sense anything. It was on their part. I was very comfortable and my parents were very broad-minded. When I was asked to pray in church, I even went so far as to put on the vestments and play the violin for certain special chapel ceremonies. And my experience there was very pleasant and I got a good education. And then, as a matter of fact, after I finished the high school, I remained on for two years in the junior college.
I'd say before I went to Chicago Musical College and went to New York to study, where to study my musical. And I always kept up my French so that to this day I have kept it as a living language and I've used it very many times as a matter of fact. Last year the women's division of the United Jewish Appeals had a mission to Morocco, and I was the only one who could speak French. And the Jewish community had a beautiful evening, really beautiful, warm, and the food was marvelous, and they were so happy to have a visit with them. So at the end of the evening, the chairman said, Fanny, why don't you at least express our thanks?
So I did it. And so it's come in quite handy. My Yiddish has been enhanced only since my involvement in the United States of Europe because having to go to Eastern Europe and meet the plans from Poland and from Russia, I made myself learn to speak English. I had a smattering of a few words here and there from my grandmother, but never enough to keep up a conversation. But now I speak quite well and understand, of course, everything. Let's go back to your St. Mary's experience. Did you start in your high school period? Yes. What about your public school? When did you start? I started at the age of 12 at St.
Mary's. What grammar school? Oh. And I did not go to believe it or not I was the baby in the family and my parents wanted me to have faith of the very best All of my sister and my two brothers went to Royal Street School and went to Forest Avenue High School I did not. I went to Miss Wormsor for private school. And then I went to City Park Elementary School. until time to go to high school, and then I went to St. Mary's. Was that here in Dallas? Here in Dallas. It is no longer in existence. It hasn't been for quite some time because of financial reversing.
But I had my whole high school education there. and two years of genius. When you went to Chicago, did your credits transfer? Were they comparable with the education? Oh, yes. Yes, I had no problem. And then I took, I stayed at the University of Chicago campus. I stayed on the campus and took my classes, some classes there. I did not matriculate as an academic major, you know, because music was my major, and in order to spend six and seven hours a day practicing, I took whatever language, I took English and French, no science, and took my music subjects, theory and harmony, self-legio, I took all of that through college.
And then I furthered my music education in New York, at the Manhattan School of Music and of Jewelry. Did you finish at junior, or did you get your degree in music? I did have a major in music. Yes. Was there anything special about your Manhattan School of Music experience or your Juilliard school? No, except that it was wonderful. My teacher was a wonderful teacher. I didn't know that I was a teacher. I didn't know that I was a teacher. I didn't know that I was a teacher. I didn know that I was a teacher I didn know that I was a teacher I have some wonderful teacher at the University of the Edwards musical college I had At the time when the transition was to take place, my father was anxious for me to go to Europe to further my musical studies.
studies there was a teacher in Paris that my local teacher had advocated, but my mother could not tolerate the idea of my babysat. So we settled for Chicago first, and Leon Samatini was then the very prominent teacher. And Mr. Van Katrick, the local conductor of the symphony and the Dean of Music at SMU knew him personally from Holland, so that was an added incentive. He was excellent. As a matter of fact, my brother Jake bought his wife's violin for me. She was a concerto. So I still remember it. Did you play it? Not very much. I feel very bad about it. But there's a limit to it.
You can't expect yourself to think. Actually, I think my involvement in Federation due to the Holocaust and what happened changed the course of my life. That's a good one. About what year was that that you studied in Chicago? 1932, 1933. And then in New York? Uh huh. And 1934. And then did you come back to Texas? Yes, I got married. I was married in 1934. Uh huh. Did you come back to Texas right after you were married? Yeah. No, we lived in New York for a few months and then we came to Dallas. and when he gave up his law practice in New York and he joined the family firm.
And we've been here ever since, 48 years we're married. That a long time What is the extent of your Jewish observance Unfortunately not very intensive except that we very Jewish that all I can say Without the children here it's very, you know, it's not the same. But we do of course observe all of the holidays and the usual traditions that go along with it. family, family get-togethers, meals, and the high holiday services. As I say, without the grandchildren, without the children, you're an element that's very important to making the Jewish holiday very special. Do you have a Seder at Pesach? Oh yes, I have the first Seder of the year.
I have the entire family and my brother's wife's family, guests, yes. That is a tradition. Do you change dishes for Pesach? Yes. Yes, yes. I use all of my mother's dishes, just as she did, and I try to pattern it very much after her. As a matter of fact, it's tradition every year. I make special strawberry preserves to give to my friends and family, and I do that every year. What about Sukkah? Did you have a Sukkah as you were growing up? My grandfather's, see we never had a house as such. We always had an apartment because my father traveled a big deal and my mother was very nervous about being on the lower floor with four children.
So we always had an apartment on an upper level, so that it was difficult to have us sit there. But I do have a recollection of my, when I was very, very young, of my grandparents having us sit there. Did they live here in the woods? No, in Fort Worth. My mother used to take this out, they'd take me on the bus to go to Fort Worth to do it with them. Yes. Santa Barbara Shukau. What about Shavuug? Did you do anything special for Shavuug? Nothing other than make special kinds of meals that one is supposed to prepare for Shavuug. No, nothing special. What about Hanukkah?
Well, that was always a very gay holiday when the kids were young, yes. We had the Hanukkah man, and we had the gifts every night. Yes, that we made it a very fun and happy holiday, always. What about Purim? Well Purim is another traditional holiday in our family and I make all of the Purim goodies homemade and send them to our friends and family and my children. That's one thing they all look forward to every year. How about Shabbat? Is there an observance of Sabbath? No. Do you light candles? Yes, occasionally. I must be honest, without my kids here, I do for the holidays. How has your observances, or how have they changed from the time you were growing up in your parents' home till now?
First of all, they're not observed in the same way. I mean at home my mother was very particular about all of the holidays, particularly when my grandparents, my grandmother came. I'm already kept as strictly closer. I do the best I can, you know. So we've loosened up quite a bit. It's not as strict. Would you say your parents, well your grandparents, let's start with your grandparents, would you say they were orthodoxy? Oh yes, my parents were. I mean my grandparents. Grandparents, yes. How about your parents? A little more conservative. My father was even more conservative than my mother She was inclined to be a little bit more traditional but my father was having traveled so much he wasn't able to really adhere to the strict.
That's okay. Did he say Kere Shanshaba? Yes. Your mother lived here? Yes, yes. had very vivid memories of that. Was Sabbath a special day in your home? Yes, for me it was, because I was always with my mother. You see, there was quite a bit of difference between my sister and myself, so I was with mother most of the time. She and I would walk from Forest Avenue to the Palace Theatre downtown to see a movie on a Sabbath. That was her treat for me. I can remember we also walked to the synagogue where we lived. And on the high holiday, on Yom Kippur, my dad always reserved a room at the park.
So if the family spent the night there, we didn't have to ride to service them. What was that like, spending the night at the Park Hotel? Well, for a kid, it was an adventure. And I always looked forward to it. It was just a place to sleep. We didn't eat. It was just a place to sleep and get dressed to go to service. Did many families do that? Not too many that I recall. Not too many. Most of them walked. Do you remember the show on Jackson Street? No. I never was there. I never went there. My recollections started at Cherokee Street. I trying to remember I think Rabbi was in Bosnia I think was the first thing What about the services that she Well, let's go back a minute.
Would you say that you are less conservative than your parents were? Or rather more liberal, whatever. A little more liberal. Would you say you were conservative or closer to orthodoxy? No, I would say no. No, I would say more conservative. Um, what, do you, can you comment on the change in the services over your reminiscences? They used to be much longer. They, they, they, they, they're more comprehensive now. And I think even the cantorial part of it has been streamlined somewhat. And the rabbi's lectures certainly had been short. I know we used to get quite fidgety at services. And in those days, if no air conditioning, it was quite an ordeal to sit through on that service and in order for the rabbi to be heard he would have them close the windows because of the traffic outdoors you know so that it was it was a very difficult period but we went as a family Were families seated together?
Yes. Were seats, permanent seats assigned? Yes, we had our seats in the second pew, in the center aisle. Yes, we all sat together. Were those permanent seats? They were benches. Well, the benches, but there were so many seats to a bench. I don remember Do you remember I would say maybe six to one partition of the bench and then there was a little division and then there was another you know maybe six or eight Our family was six, so. I understand that your father, Aloshalim, was the man chosen to give speeches in absence of a rabbi. I never heard it. I never heard my father speak at a public function.
But I do know that I remember what, uh, the family folklore that came, one time Weissman came to town that, um, I thought I was the only one who could converse with me. Um, do you remember if the speeches on Rosh Hashanah and young people, were they always in English or were they sometimes in English? No, as far as I remember only English. I don't recall what I'm in English. That's just... I can't get my knowledge. What about Jewish organizations? What has your involvement been in the Jewish organizations? Well, I did belong to Hadassah and was active there for a couple of years and that has to extend it.
I had never been what you call an organizational woman. Because I was so involved with my music, I never had time for that. And I taught for a couple of years after we were married. As a matter of fact, I often talked to possessions the Zesler family Josephine Levine and her brother David were two of my people so I never really what instrument did you teach My first crusada was at Sherry-Fist River. I had the The program was on the violin. And my parents were performing. I was a regular at all the Heffa Kadisha banquets. I would play the violin. And for some of the big social functions, I would play the violin.
Did you play any groups professionally here? Yes, I played at the Dallas Symphony. What year? Oh gosh, don't ask me. I can't remember. How about what? Give me a time frame. I would say about 19... When was it? Actually when I was at St. Mary's. I guess 1928-29. So you were already playing professionally before you went to Chicago? Oh, yes, in the Dallas Symphony, yes. They would pick me up at school and my mother would have me picked up and taken through there. Fell apart, brought back. Were you one of the youngest, or one of the younger performers? Yes, I was. I was. I was about 14 years old.
So that I had very good training. Who was the conductor? Paul and I. Of the symphony at that point. Are you starting to talk about the Jewish organizations you were involved in? Yes, well, Havasar was the only one that I had worked with. And then, of course, in 1946, you mentioned that you were... Yes, I got a call one day, and it was from Gini Ships asking if I would not serve as a vice chairman on the campaign. And, of course, we were all affected by what had happened in the room. I felt that that was my duty at the time and so I said yes Not having had any training or any relationship with any organization you know as a speaker I'd always played the violin or the piano.
I'd never opened my mouth in public. But it came as if it had a natural function and I served a fight for trauma. The following year, I think week 10 to 7, she became ill in the dermalphalces and they asked me to take over. So I took over that faculty and the following year I was the chairman of the University. And then in 1949 I was the general chairman of the University. And then I did serve in various capacities of the Federation, as president of family service. And in the community I was also chairman of the family and children's division, the then council of social agencies.
And I worked on the United Way and was active in the symphony. In what? On the board, I was on the board of the symphony. And then of course I was back then to the national scene and that's where... What year? About what year? About 1956. Now you said that Julius Scheps had asked you to become involved in the Federation. Exactly what was it that he wanted you to do? To work on the campaign. What did that involve in those days? Well, it involved, it was a fundraising function. How did they go about it? It was the first time that we had really organized to that extent and we more or less followed a pattern that was dictated to us by National We recruited an Areva Wadell, who was very active, and as a matter of fact, matter of fact, he was the second national chairman of the United Jews' Appeals.
And unfortunately, this tragic accident happened. And, um, UCAN, of course, was very active, and we created an organization. and then the chairman, and then the vice chairman, and then the workers, pretty much as we do it today. But it was, when you think back today, of course, we had 5,000 minimum lunches and affairs, and in those days to have a hundred dollar luncheon was quite a revolutionary thought, but it worked. Harry Neiman and Minnie Marcus were the first co-chairman. We had our luncheon at the Colombian club and they asked me to do the fundraising. This was my my first experience publicly at a public function to stand up and ask for funds.
I didn't recall exactly what we raised, but we did very well. Of course the times had a lot to do with what was happening in Europe had a great impact on Jewish life everywhere. From that time on, it has become a regular yearly function of the Federation. And the Federation, of course, has expanded and channeled into many other areas of Jewish life. I think that we have a very strong central agency here. I was part of the National Board of the Women Division of the United Civilist Appeal until such time as I was asked to be the National General Then I happened to be chosen as the first president.
They had never had a president of the Women's Division. But they asked me after my term of office if I wouldn't take that role, and I said, OK. So I served as president for three years. So my total six years of service on the upper level, quite an experience, and the relationships I've made are fantastic. I've also maintained a role in the Council of Federations because I think that's a, they go hand in hand. The UJA is a beneficiary at the Federation. and it's the biggest moneymaker. So I, and I maintain my involvement and still do some speaking, traveling. I'm on the executive committee. Of course, my missions to Israel have been the highlight of my whole term.
And the recollections that I have are fantastic. No matter where I go when I meet someone who's been on a mission, we have a lot to tackle that. And some of those same women were just with me in Israel. We reminisce a great deal about what was. It's been a very enriching experience. How did it come about that you started taking missions to Israel? In what year? When I was National Chairman from 68 through 72, no, 69 through 72 was a three year term. I started then I just made my 37th trip to Israel I took missions three and four times a year as national champion And then kept on.
And I've been going to Israel since 1950. That was when I made my first trip. And I still maintain that same enthusiasm. Every time I go, it's as if it is the first time. And I think it has had a great impact on everyone that goes. It's not the same when they come back and they become more and more involved. And this is the reason for it. And it's beautiful to see the transition to see what happens and take them over again. We have some very emotional experiences, some very low experiences. But for a total experience it's hard to beat as a Jew. How has the campaign changed over the years in method, in participation?
Well, it's bigger business. I mean, the amounts of dollars that we have to raise have increased tremendously so that you have to broaden your base, which we have done locally and in every community in the United States. The campaigns are run really on a year-round basis now because of the tremendous amount of detail and coverage that has to be made. It's really a year-round business. What about participation? Now, Dallas is a very interesting community because of the makeup in part. The reform group at one time was, especially here, was the forefront for the American Council of Judaism. How has this evidenced itself in federation campaigning?
The council has lost out. It actually for all intents and purposes does not exist anymore It was an obstacle in the very beginning but it has not affected the campaigns at all in the past twenty years. What changes have you seen in relation to the various segments within the community? Well, at one time I don't recall the community being as unified as it has been since the campaigns. There was a definite line of demarcation between the German Jews, the so-called Reformed element, and the Russian Jews, the so-called conservative and Orthodox element. But once the campaigns began, we merged and it has really made us a stronger and more unified community.
I don't think this is the only tour of Dallas. I think that happened in many communities. But I think that it all happened to the best. We have now second generation people serving in our campaigns in prominent positions who many, many years ago were not considered. But the first campaign was, I'm sure you must have that information, Junior Sheps and Ron Spaliff were the first co-chairmen. In what year? Must have been in 1945 or 1946. Now you're saying first campaign. Are you referring to campaign including UJA? Right, for the UJA. Because there were other fundraising campaigns. I think Ruth Kahn has talked about 1941. No, I'm talking about UJA Federation campaigns, which of course are the big, that's when we started raising big money, because the needs were so great.
Through your involvement as a fundraiser you became involved in other facets of Federation activity and that what happened to the great extent of my experience And I have no regrets Sometimes I reproach myself for not having kept up my music, But on the other hand, I feel well rewarded for having done my bit for my people and my family members, and hope that I have left an inheritance for my kids. How do they feel about your activities? Well, I must be honest with you, they resented it. I gave too much time to the activities and not enough to them. But I think now they understand.
Now they understand. They're big women. Are they active in their individual communities? No, because first of all they're in big communities and they have little children and it's difficult. Our son lives in New York, you know, and he has a business of his own. He feels it very deeply. And my daughter's in Philadelphia, which is another large community. But I think in time they will do their part. Now, you had mentioned being a member of the Dallas Symphony League. Many years, well, before it was called the League, I don't know what it was even called. But it was the women, the board of the symphony is what I served on.
I have not served on one of the years. About what year were you on the board? The symphony? I'm 36, 37. With regard to other symphony and cultural organizations, generally? No. Civic? Oh, Civic Music. I've always been involved with that. But I am now involved with the conservatory summer conservatory of music for SMU and I involved in fundraising for that which I think is a very very worthwhile project And when I retired as National Chairman of the Women's Division, a scholarship was created in my name in conjunction with the American-Israel Cultural Foundation. and Shlomo Mintz was the recipient of the scholarship so that I've maintained a relationship with him and it's been wonderful.
As a matter of fact, he came down and played for this organization for, you know, last year. And opera was always a big thing in our life. My father always got season tickets for the whole family. I had very fond ruminescences of the Majestic Theater being the place where the Chicago Civic Opera I don't know what time of the year I think. I know that it was Salyapin and Boris Goodenov and Rosa Raissa and Lars Weave, those stand out in my memory quite vividly. So that music was always a very important part of our family. About what time frame? was in about 1922 what were some of the other things do you remember that you remember as far as activities in cultural activities oh we were a very cultural family my father and mother both were very anxious for us to be exposed to every facet of culture whether it be a lecture or a ballet or concert and I know when my brother was at school in Cornell we went up there every summer to spend the summer and this was in my young days 1925 26 27 and we always went to theater and look forward to our stay in New York so that was my One indulgence every weekend when I was going to school, my family would let me buy whatever magazines I wanted on a Friday so that Saturday I could read all about the artists and the musicians and the ballet dancers and the opera singers.
So I was pretty well up on all of the news. There was a Yiddish art theater here in Dallas. Are you familiar with their work? No. But I know we used to see Yiddish theater in New York with Marley Pekan, Maurice Schwartz. Let's go back for a minute to affiliation with the synagogue. Yes. You said you grew up in Sherryth Israel and you were always affiliated with Sherryth Israel. Yes, I mean all my life. But there was a certain period there where we were a bit disenchanted and I wanted the kids to have a Sunday school. And so we joined Temple Emanuel for a short period.
We did not attend services there because they were a bit strange for a family that had been brought up in the conservative movement. And my son refused to go. So there was a short period where their education was dormant until we revived our relationship with Jared Israel. Did you retain any membership at Temple after that dual membership at all or did you just come back? I think we're just for sure at this one. Have you ever had any other membership other than that brief period at Temple? I think we did. I think we did. I'm not real sure about it, but I believe we did.
When we were first married, the first ten years or so, I think we did, but I'm not sure. I wouldn't want that documented because I really don't remember. Which show would it have been with? Or was Temple of Manila Or no other synagogue Unless maybe Bernie has a different recall on that I don know Okay Maybe a good as often maybe Now, what about your locations as far as living, your location of home through years? We lived in South Dallas on Forest Avenue. About what year? So this was during my, about 1921, 22, 23, 24. Then in 27 or 25, I would say, we moved to Maple Terrace.
And I grew up at Maple Terrace in my teen years and going to St. Mary's and lived there until I got married. And then the first two years of our marriage we lived at Maple Terrace until we moved on University Boulevard. But my whole youth was spent on Pocahontas Street in South Dallas and 4th Avenue and Youth Circle. Those are the three residences. And I remember on Pocahontas, Corten Sanger lived around the corner from me. But we never played together because we didn't have a common meeting ground. She belonged to the temple and I belonged to Sarah Israel. But we did meet, I think, occasionally.
We went to the same dancing class at the Columbian Club, which was located on Irby Street. And I think we did belong to the same class, I'm not sure. What address on Pocahontas? And when did you live there? I think it was 1817 Pocahontas, if I'm not mistaken. I think that was the number. You lived there? Uh-huh. I think that was the Jewish community. You were right, 1817. It was a block before. The block before the community center. Okay. The Federation. You're right. It stuck in my mind. Yeah, it was the block before, right opposite City Park, which is now, you know. Yes. It was right opposite.
Isn that funny It wonderful Okay Do you remember your address on Forrest It was a few blocks west of the high school It was on Jeffrey and Forrest Avenue About what years did you live on Pocahontas? About... About... About 19... 18, 19. Now in University Park, that was after we were married. Oh, after you were married. Or after Maple-Karris. Okay, about where, what was the location, what was the address of the house in University Park? 4422, where we lived. Was that University Boulevard? Uh-huh. And about what years? From what year to when? Well, we were married in about 37 to the time we moved on Westway, 45-20 Westway.
I think it was in 19, yeah. Bunny would know that better than I am, about 40, 37. Would it be that? Probably if we moved to Westway I think in the early 40s. And then from Westway? From Westway, 4520 Westway. And then from there we moved to Myron Drive, where our home in Myron Drive. I think we moved here in 50 or 51 And when did you move from that home From Westway we moved here in 61 From Myron Drive Uh From Myron Drive And we been here ever since And this is on Bandera? 6325 Bandera. What types of housing or type, you know, were they single family dwelling?
Was it brick? Was it frame? Well, the one on Westway we built a two-family house so that my mother could live on one side and we lived on the other. And on University Boulevard it was an apartment. We lived in the upstairs apartment. And we always wanted to be near my mother because she was rather dependent upon me. And she had a duplex a few doors down. And then once she died, we moved to Mama Grya. And that actually was the only home in terms of it being a home. A one-story house. We've always lived in apartments. what is the family structure been over the years do you remember living with any relatives or any uncles or aunts or cousins did your parents ever have any borders anybody lived with them no one short brief period I had a cousin who spent a short while with us but that was all Did the family ever experience bringing someone over from Europe or else?
Oh yeah, my father brought quite a few people over. What years? What three years? I don't really recall. But, uh, um, I really don't remember. He wrote affidavits, you know, for people. Some were not always family. They were not always family. Were some of these perhaps in the early 30s? Could be. Could be. They do. I know my brother-in-law, my sister's husband, was a German. And he brought over, oh, many, many as a result of the Holocaust. He brought many relatives over. What were your father's occupations? What did he do in Europe before he came to the United States? Do you know? I think he was in the leather business, but I'm not sure.
Do you know how he was... did he get into the scrap iron business right after he came to the States? Well, uh, I think Jack will be able to tell you that better. Okay. I know he was in the leather business, I think, for a while in Canada, but I'm not sure. And then when he came back, he went into the scrap iron. Do you remember anything about the early years of the scrap iron, or what are your earliest memories? Oh, the American Iron and Metal Company on Latimer, yes. But before then, he had a plant on McKinney. That's where the first plant was. On McKinney.
Probably the Pearl, I'm not sure. Yes, I have vivid memories of Latimer Street. Oh, my God. It was a very hard work of... A wonderful provider for his family. Is there anything special you remember about the business? Anything special? Mm-hmm. No. I can't, you know, recall anything in terms of a special happening. Did you ever go to the business to visit? Oh yeah Oh yes What were some of the things My father had a lovely office and he had a special couch there so he could lie down and take a little nap every day to rest. Because he woke, his hours were really very long.
He'd wake up sometimes 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning and go to the office. Did he, Donovan? No. No. I recall whether he had the felon or not. I don't recall. Do you remember if there were any personal relationships with people that worked with him? when he used to come down to his office? Well, I mean, people who wanted money for Jewish causes always came to see him. But he had the normal relationships with the community people and people with whom he worked at the synagogue and all. But as far as any specific visits from others, I do not remember. Don't recall. He had very, he had relationships with prominent Jews from all over.
He was an ardent Zionist. He visited Palestine before it was Israel three times. I mean, all of the prominent Zionists were very good things. Was he involved in bringing crime rights when he was in Dallas?