Fanny Hoffman
Fanny Hoffman was born on Madison Street on the Lower East Side of New York, about 77 years before this interview. Her father came from Russia and her mother from Vienna, Austria, and the two met in New York when her father came looking for a wife. Her father first worked long hours in a sweatshop before opening his own small candy store, later moving into the stationery business, which he kept for the rest of his life. The family moved often, living in Brooklyn, Plainfield, New Jersey, and later Greenwich Village. Fanny was the elder of two surviving daughters and grew up in largely Christian neighborhoods with little Jewish education.
A self-described shy and homebound girl, Fanny was close to her parents and studied piano and voice, singing as head soprano in high school. She met her future husband when he began leaving boxes of candy at her door at a mailing house where she worked, and after a long courtship of several years they married once she finished school. She studied accounting at NYU and worked with mailing and office machines. The couple settled in Brooklyn, had one son, and her husband spent his career in the real estate business with a loyal non-Jewish partner, Andy Collins, before later moving into a servicing business.
After her husband died, Fanny's son and daughter-in-law insisted she not live alone, and she moved with them as her son's career with a national company took the family to Boston, New Hampshire, and finally Dallas. She lived with them for about ten years, helping care for her three grandchildren, before moving out on her own. Encouraged by her family, she discovered the Jewish Community Center, where a kind man named Abe Munster welcomed her when she nearly left feeling out of place. The senior program became the focal point of her life, and she poured her energy into helping others while teaching them to remain independent, guided always by her belief in being good, honest, and kind.
Full Transcript
I'm sitting here with one of my first friends when I came to the Jewish Community Center, a terrific person called Fanny Hoffman. Fanny, good morning. Good morning. Fanny, as you know, every week I've been sitting with wonderful people from the Center, and we've been talking about their lives right from the beginning to where we are today for a very special reason, which I will get to when we get closer to the end. So, like they say, let's begin at the beginning. Fannie, where were you born? I was born on Madison Street on the Lower East Side, 77 years ago. So you are a real Yankee.
I'm a Yankee. A yankadoodle dandy. I am. Alright, Fanny, you were born on the Lower East Side. Where did your parents come from originally? My daddy came from Russia. My mother came from Austria, from Vienna. And they met here. My father came here to find himself a wife. and he was told to go to my grandma's house and he would meet the lady that they would introduce him to. He came in and he saw this lady and alongside her was my mother. And he said to my grandma, who was that lady? She said, that's my daughter. He said, I don't want to go out with her, I want to go out with her.
That often happens? Yeah, and that's how they started going and that's how they got married. Okay, what did your father do for a living? At that time when he came here, he worked in a sweatshop. Okay, your dad worked in a sweatshop. And did your mother work? No, no. How? My mother came here from Vienna. No, but did she work after they got married? No. No, those years they don't believe in that. They had the wives we had a family and I was the first born I had a brother who died within the year Then my sister was born and that all we were We were a small family Two girls Okay what do you remember about where you lived in the Lower East Side I don't really remember much, because as I said, I was born there, and my folks moved from that area, because Papa could not work in the sweatshop, because they worked all hours.
They worked 14, 16 hours a day. and he wanted to go into a little business of his own. So they bought a little candy store. Where? That I don't remember because I was too young to know that. But as I got older, he had a bigger store and he went into the stationary line. And the first store that I could remember was a store in Brooklyn on Lexington Avenue There was an elevator there, and we lived in that behind the store. They had a little apartment that we lived in, but it was right near the business. And I only remember Dad being in the stationary business for the rest of his life.
So your remembrances of the little child were not of the Lower East Side, but of Brooklyn? Yes, in Brooklyn. Okay. Tell me what you remember about the kids in the street, the school. We lived in a Christian neighborhood. We really got the only Jewish people there. And we went, I started school there. I don't remember what school it was because I said I was just a baby, a youngster. And then we, then Papa moved, he sold that store and he moved in another area. And then he bought a store out in Plainfield, New Jersey. I was a bigger girl then. And I went to school there and I had lovely friends there.
Now in Plainfield, were there more Jewish girls there? Not too many. So you never had much of a Jewish upbringing? No, never had of a Jewish upbringing at all. What about in your home? No my folks became Americanized Because as I said dealing with Christian people all their lives they wanted to get into that atmosphere and make friends with the Christian people who were very good to my folks I mean they never had any kind of information You were never going to shul No The only time I went to shul was when I met my dad coming from synagogue on the Yom Kippur But other than that, you didn't go to Hebrew school and Jewish school?
No. No. I had no Jewish upbringing at all. And no Jewish friends, really? No. Never had a Jewish friend. How did then... you went to public school? Then I went to public school, then we moved back to New York. Tell me something. In public school, you never, of course, then made any issue of being a Jew. No. You were the same as everybody else. The same as everybody else. Okay, so you didn't have any anti-Semitic... No. Never. You really assimilated. Right. They would come to my home, we'd go to their homes, they'd come to my home... What did you do as a teenage girl then?
What things socially did you do? Well, I tell you, I was a very shy girl. Fanny Hoffman, a shy girl. A very square girl. Yeah. And I didn't go out and work with the boys. You were a homebody. I was a homegirl. I used to help Mama in the house. I'd come home from school, do my homework. Then I'd go into the store and I'd pop up and go and get a nap. Then he'd come in and I'd go in the house. And I had a very close relationship with my mother and dad. Very close. So you didn't belong into any youth groups or youth organizations?
None at all. Okay, and then you moved. When you finished high school? No, I didn't even finish. But then we came to New York and we lived on West 4th Street. And at that time, it started to become Greenwich Village. You know, they start opening up all these little tea rooms and these little stores. And there I had a very, very close Italian girlfriend. We were very close. And we went to school together. We went to high school together. I went to public school on West 8th Street, public school 41. But in New York then you left it in with Jewish people. No. My whole area was a non-Jewish area.
Few of the business people were Jewish Practically most of the business people And I met some of the Jewish children at school And then I graduated PS41 and I went to Washington Irving High There I... well before that I was taking piano lessons and voice. Oh, that's something I didn't know about you. Oh yeah. Oh, okay. And then when I got to high school, I had a music teacher by the name of Mr. Mooney. And I was the head soprano there. Isn't that interesting? And then he said to me that he'd like me to take private lessons because he thought I had the potential for getting into show visual.
But then I started to keep going around with the boy. Oh, my husband. Oh, I met. How did you meet a nice Jewish boy if you never went with Jews? I'll tell you how I met. I'll never. That's it. I want to know. Okay. During the summer, I went to work in a mailing house. Mm-hmm. And this was on 30th Street, New York. My boy, my husband at that time used to go into a candy store. You know, they used to have a little candy store in the buildings and a barber shop and a whole McGillop. And he met me and I came in for some candy.
I was a masha. I came in for the candy and he met me there. He was working at the candy store? No, no. He had come in to get something and he saw me there. And he says to the man that owned the store, he says, who's that nice young lady? So he says, she works in the back and they mail it over to the house. He said, no, don't go meet her like that. He said, when she comes in the next time and you'll be here, I will introduce the two of you. And that's what he did. How old were you? Well, I was going to high school.
I was about 17. And he was what? He was 21. He was two years old. What was he doing? No, 19 he was at that time. Was he working? He was working for a brother-in-law of his. He was into the real estate line. Okay. And every morning after that I used to find a box of candy at my door before I came in. Oh my, wasn't he a done one. The man who was a Jewish man knew this, but he never told me. And I'd say, who's doing this? He says, I don't know. And he never knew my name. He always called me Sis. So when did he get up finally?
He finally got to ask me my name about two years going around with me. Up until that night, I was always Sis. You mean for two years he just left you boxes of chocolates and never took you right? No, then I found out who did it. yeah because i had to thank the man yeah yeah and we started going around i kept company for four and a half years my mother wouldn't let me get married until i finished school and he was a very he was a very good man wow you sure would love it per se yeah he was a very his mom didn't want him to get married because he lost his dad when he was about five years old and his mom brought up six children by herself.
She didn't want to lose her bread with her. And she did not want him to get married. So that's why we kept company for 48 years because after high school I went over to the NYU college to study accounting because that was my major at high school too. I kept working with a, even when I left the mail order, I learned to do multigraphing there. I did all the typing, mailing, and I did all that work. He was the man that hired me with an insurance broker, and this was a sideline for him. So I learned all the different machines. So when I went to work, this was my profession, working.
instead of going to the bookkeeping, I liked this better. Because it was much more interesting than spending and worrying about a penny that you're missing, bookkeeping the planet. And we got married. And we had a lovely wedding. And all my Gersh are friends. Came to a Jewish wedding, isn't it? Yeah, and of course the families. We had a lovely wedding down on the east side. Right. And where did you live when you were first married? When I first got married, I moved into Brooklyn, up on Eastern Parkway. Was that a Jewish area where you lived That was a Jewish area and then some of the neighbors were young Jewish people We got friendly And he my husband had Jewish friends And I got into a Jewish, more of a Jewish group at the time.
After your marriage? Yes. Now, with your husband and after your marriage, did you become more Jewish in your home, more Jewish in your observance? Well, my mother always had a kosher home. Always born and meeting the kosher butcher. She always had a kosher home until one day she used to have the goyim come in and light the lights for her. Yeah. The usual thing. And one day she said to herself, she said, I don't know why I'm doing this. We work in the store seven days a week. Right. It's sort of hypocritical. She says, I take money on Shabbos, which is the biggest sin. She said, I feel like a hypocrite.
So she stopped. So what did you do? What kind of a house did you do? I didn't have a kosher home. Okay. No. I never went into it because the friends I had didn't run kosher homes. I mean, we were all American. Now, when you made these other young Jewish couples, did you belong to any Jewish social club? No. Or nothing? You just were okay. What about political? Were you ever politically interested in that? Okay. When did you have your children? Well, I only have one son. Oh, okay. And I was married eight years before I had him. And you worked the whole time before you had him?
No, no, I didn't work. I quit working when I got married. My husband wouldn't allow me to go to work. You're an American princess. And he wouldn't. I used to sneak away because my old boss used to call me. And he'd say, Fanny, come do me a favor. I have some mail-in house to go out, and I have no one to do it for me. I thought I'd have to come in early, but I'd have to leave early. Because I went after he went to business. You snuck up when he asked? And I was home before he came home. You're lucky he didn't find out.
You had a lover, never mind a boss. Oh, I couldn't dare do anything like that because he was very jealous. And then after a while I cut that out because I didn't think it was right. I knew he would be very much against it. So what did you do with the extra money that you earned? I kept it, did what I want with it. Okay. And he wasn the kind of a man that gave me for table money Whatever he owned he put in the house He just said you take care of it So he didn want no responsibilities at home He had his responsibilities working So you had the one son?
Yes. That's all I had. And my husband was in business with an Irishman all his life. And I bet they had a very good business association. Oh, Andy Collins and his family, they were wonderful people. What business did they have? In the real estate. And they were together for years until Andy died. You know, that's so interesting, Fanny, because a lot of the people that I have interviewed, their husbands were in business with brothers or sisters, and families ended up in bitter quarrels. No. And this was someone non-Jewish who remained a loyal friend. Very, very loyal friends. Very loyal. Your husband, was he a builder or did he build?
No, so this was real estate. Down on 30 feet in the business section, the fur business, the manufacturing business, this was all the kind of real estate that they used. Okay, and your son? My son went to college. Do you have any stories to tell when he was a little boy? Well, he was a good boy. I'll tell you why. He was brought up by my mom. We, you know, those years we were very close family minded. And I had my niece who was, or my sister, who was an only child, and my son who was an only child. And I had help. I always had help in the house.
And he, and my mother would say to me, wherever you want to go, you go. Just leave the baby with me. And she really brought him up. And he was a good boy. He was not a... and he also had a lot of Christian friends. Well, he didn't have a terribly Jewish upbringing. No, no. Okay. What did he study at college? He did go to Haydn. And he had a bar mitzvah? Oh, yes. Okay. But he went to a... Reform? No. A very religious Jewish... Which was wrong. Why? I'll tell you why. We didn't have a kosher home. Oh, so he was being taught one thing and...
And had another thing. And it wasn fair to him But he went through because my father went to that shul And my husband went to shul you know on the high holidays with my dad And he responded to it in an orthodox religion really And he was brought up that way. Okay. So he grew up and went to college? Oh, yeah. He went to college. He was over at Dickinson College in Pennsylvania. and he came home one day with his bag and baggage and I said, what are you doing home? What happened? I thought he was thrown out of school. I couldn't imagine what happened.
He said, don't get excited, Mom. I'm going to enlist. There was a Korean war. What was he studying? He was studying business administration. I said, no, you're not. You're not enlisting. I felt like my dead body. He said, Mom, that's why I came home for it. I said, I don't care what you came home for, either you go back to Dickinson or you go to NYU, but you're first going to get your degree. Well, he knew he had a tough mom. So he said, I won't be able to get into NYU. I said, well, if you can't get into NYU, because he came in the middle of a session.
I said, I'll get you in, because we have people that we knew. He said, oh no you don't. I'll get in. And he got in, he went back to school and he graduated. Good. And then what did he do? Then he went into the army. And he was down at Fort Bennington and he was on, instead of two years he was in for three, he was officer of Camerlade School. And it was funny, going through all these pictures I found, the letters I was sending from the different offices. And then when he got through, he met his girl, his wife, who I was not very happy with.
Why? Well maybe... Well I felt that he first had to make a living. Okay, like any mama. Yes. Not that I couldn't afford to take care, but I didn't want to. I didn't want to spoil him. I said, if you want to get married, you go out and make yourself a living. Then you can get married. So he struggled for a while. Then he got in with Cornhole Marks who taught him to schmuck the business. Peaceful, you know, he didn't learn that manufacturing. And then when he was able to support Where did he meet his wife? In New York? No, in Brooklyn. He met her on a blind date.
And we were living at that time in Peekskill. My husband at that time gave up the real estate business. And he went into the servicing business. You know, cigarette machines and cigar machines and pinball machines and that's kind of a business. And he didn't want, my son didn't want to go in business with that. He didn't want that kind of business. So, of course, you do what you want. And they got married. How many children do they have? They have three grandchildren. Didn't you get my three grandchildren at my dinner? No, I wasn't able to get them. Oh, you were on your fare. Okay, so, V.
Kemp, the Katz, Iber, and Vosser, how come you're now sitting here with me in Dallas, Texas, if your whole life was in New York? Right. When he did not like the Schmatz business. Your sense. Okay. He did not like it at all. So he answered and nailed it in New York with the National and they had a New York office and he went down there for an interview. And they said that they thought he'd be very good for the business, but he wanted to meet his wife. Because they wanted to make sure that she would be happy with the kind of life that he was going to have to live.
And she said she was perfectly happy, that's what he wanted. So he took the job with them and he traveled a lot. He really traveled so very much all the rest of his life. And they had their three children. And they lived here in Dallas? No. They first lived in Boston. In Boston they went to New Hampshire. Then he went to the office and he told them that he did not want to sell. He's not a salesman. He never cared for selling and he wanted a different type of position. If they were capable of doing something for him, fine. Otherwise, he'd have to find something else.
They didn want to lose him So they gave him they trained him to be a district manager And then thank God he now got one of the vice presidents at the different sites That's wonderful. And you came down? Then they wanted, from New York they decided that they wanted him here in Dallas. because they wanted him to take over the entire Canadian territory, because the Canadian territory who was running it went down. Right. And they didn't want to lose that. So they told him to come back here. He said, well, I'm going to do it with my mom. I said, well, your husband had died in the interim?
Oh, my husband had died. Yeah, my husband died, my son, on his birthday. How many years ago? Oh, 11, 12 years ago. Okay. So you were in New York while he was in the healthy zone? Yes, but I only lived by myself not even a year. Because my kids came one day and said, Mom, we're moving you. You're not staying in Brooklyn by yourself. So you've lived with your children? I've lived with them for 10 years. Oh, you're living with them now? No, I'm on my own. Okay, so when they came to Dallas? So I moved with them and lived with them here. And my son then started traveling to the east of Japan, Australia.
And he wasn't home. He came home once a month. And she went back to college. She went to get her master's degree. And I stood home, took care of the family. And the way I got in here... How did you get into here? Into here meaning the seniors and the seniors? I was alone a lot because I used to bring the children back and forth from school, wait for them to come get in. And there were some Jewish people on the block, but I had nothing much to do with. You know, the Dallas people, you get in, you're a lonely lady. And one day the kids came home and said, Mom, you're going to the Jewish community center.
I said, what am I going to do there? I said, I don't want to go there. So she says, Mom, we paid. At that time, they paid dues for the whole community, for the family. Mom, we paid, and you're going. And I fight with them So I came here one day and I walked into that back room that where they all were And I looked around and I said I got it What am I going to do here And I walked out and I sat out in the lobby. And one of the ladies got a hold of Mr. Abe Munster and they said, go out and see what's going on back there.
This lovely baby came in, but he walked out. So Abe came over to me, and he introduces himself. And he says, why did you walk out? I said, I just felt, I felt out of place, and I felt very much alone. So he says, get up and get you. And he took me by the arm. He didn't bring me back in there, but he walked me around, and he was a very, may you rest in peace, a lovely man. Now he says that's childish, you're coming in, you're going to come into the center. And that's how I start with the center. And the center now is the focal point of your life?
The focal point of my life. I love the seniors daily. I don't want them hurt in any way. If anybody says a wrong way to them, I get very angry. Okay, now this one point now that we haven't got, when did you then move out of your son's house onto your own? I moved out of there three years ago. You were very active in the seniors at that time and felt very independent? No, I felt that I had a feeling there was something wrong there. See, I never had any worries with my daughter-in-law. She never cared what I did. Listen, it's gold to live ten years never mind with a daughter.
Yes, and I never had a bad word with her. Never. She'd come in and say, Mom, we're having company. I said, Janie, what do you want? She said, I don't have to tell you, you know what to do. And that was my home. I never felt that that wasn't my home. But I had a feeling there was something wrong. And my feeling was right. My kids got a divorce. After so many years? And then I felt like... You didn't know where to be, so you went in the room. She came and apologized. She said, Mom, it's just something that she wanted, not him. After how many years?
Well, it was after over 20 years. So then you moved out on your own. Are they divorced now? Oh, yeah. Is your son remarried Yeah he remarried I still friendly with her She is a mother of my grandchildren I very close with the family her family I go to New York, I always go to visit and stay with them. They come here, they stay with me more than they stay with her. So, I have nothing, this is how I want to... Tell me something. I am sure that you feel even more independent and more worthwhile on your own. Oh, yeah. And being on your own, you put your whole heart and soul in here.
Well, you certainly do a phenomenal amount of work, Fanny. Well, if I didn't have it, I'd have to go out and look for a job. If I could not stay home. I have too much energy in me. What does the senior program mean to you? It means everything to me. If you had to, Fanny, all these recordings and all these tapings, I'm not taping them because I'm a busybody. No, I'm not, Molly. Because I want all these special people's lives down. And, you know, your three grandchildren are very precious to you. And what if, I mean, okay, they've been through living with Grandma in the house, they've been through divorce, they've moved around a lot, and they know that Grandma's a pretty special person.
If they came in here, let's say 30 years from now, when they themselves are parents, and they go into the room there and it says, Senior Oral History, and they look down and they see Fanny Hoffman, and they're going to take out this tape and they're going to sit down and play it and listen to you and maybe cry a little. What would you like to say to them about life, about what you've learned, about what would you like them to hear? I would only like them to know that they should be good. They should be honest. They should help people, old people. They should be good to elderly people in their life.
just be good healthy citizens of this country and have good lives and always think back and remember that I've always been that way with them and I think I've been that way with a lot of people. That's what makes you so special. That's what makes you put all your efforts out. That's it. And I still do that with my grandchildren. If they need me, I'm always, and they know it, that they can always come to Nana. Nana is always there for us. Okay, and Nana, you're always here when the seniors need you. You're always here when Miriam needs you. Fanny, you're a super special I have no...
I've never learned to hate people. That's one thing my home you could not do. Well, that's a very wonderful thing. You know, my husband always says to me, Miriam, you go out in the world and you look for people. Yes. I think, Fanny, you are very much the same. That's right. People are very important. Are your hobbies. People are your life. True. And mission and cooking and organizing. I love doing it. And I don't do it because I brag or I want to expect thanks from people. I know that they are happy with what I do for them. And they know that they can call me.
They know they can talk to me. that I'll never hurt them. But I also try to teach them to be independent and not to depend upon people doing for them. Right, that's so very important. I tell them, look, I can't do for you what you expect. You've got to go in and do for yourself. And make them show them that you're a human being and not a child. Absolutely. Fanny, we've had 45 minutes in the life of Fanny Hoffman. That's very sad. It went very quickly, and I've enjoyed every minute of it. Oh, Maryam, thank you, darling. And you're a special human being. Thank you, dear.
And I'm glad you're part of my life. Oh, I'm glad I'm part of yours, too, and I'm glad I'm part of everybody's, and I love you. I love you, too.