Gary Gluckman
Gary Gluckman's family roots trace to Saga, a small town in Lithuania, where both of his maternal grandparents were born but did not know one another. His grandfather immigrated to South Africa as a boy with his father, intending to bring the rest of the family over one at a time. As a child he had noticed a young girl named Crystal in his village, and though he never spoke to her, he was certain he would marry her. He wrote to her for years, and eventually arranged papers for her to join him in South Africa. She made a perilous journey as a teenager across Nazi Europe to reach a boat in Italy, enduring abuse and danger, before finally meeting him in Durban. They married and remained together for 63 years. Most of her family perished in the Holocaust, save for one sister found in New York in 1958.
Gary grew up in Johannesburg in a warm and loving home, with devoted parents and grandparents always nearby. His maternal grandfather ran a clothing factory in a small town called Villiers, about an hour and a half from the city, commuting home for the Sabbath, and was active in Jewish theater and Yiddish writing. Gary received a Jewish education through about eighth grade and then attended public school. After completing mandatory military service in South Africa, he trained and worked as an electrician. His grandparents later immigrated to the United States, lived their final years, and were buried in Dallas.
Gary came to the United States drawn by close friends, the Simpson family, and by what he calls the unique magnetism of America. He first worked as an electrician in Texas, then took a job in Houston with a family friend's company, which sponsored him and helped him become legal in the United States. In 1993 he returned to Dallas, closer to family, and opened the Grocery Clearance Center, which purchases surplus, discontinued, or closeout grocery products and resells them to the public. He still owns and runs the business, now consolidated into a larger location in a revitalized strip center. Married to Bonita and a devoted father, Gary belongs to a Dallas congregation and above all wants his children to remember their great-grandmother's courageous journey.
Full Transcript
good afternoon we're here on the 30th of November fifteen I'm with Gary Gluckman we are doing a rooster boots interview for the Dallas Historical Society Gary first I'd like to ask you if you can tell me what you know about the history of your grandparents or great-grandparents if that be the case who came from Europe or those parts to South Africa as the part of does the beginning part of your family history know very little of my great-grandparents but I'm quite an extensive history best as I can recollect of my grandparents with whom I was very very close with where did they come from I
came from a little town called saga in Lithuania and they both live there in that town but didn't actually know one another in that town when they lived it my grandfather immigrated from Lithuania when he was 10 years old and he went with his father to South Africa he was born in at 1918 so what must have been 20 1928 I believe 28 no I believe he was born in 28 wait let me just work this backwards so 28 30 he left when his 10 I'm not sure if is born in eighteen or twenty eight but if he was born in eighteen that was twenty
eight and he stayed there about ten years yeah i he i believe he was born him in eighteen immigrated at twenty eight with his father with the intent of bringing the he's their mother and their remaining siblings over one at a time as they could afford to he then my grandfather's was in jewish fiat all his love and he was a very good storyteller and he would tell us I have a headache the sister who passed away and he would tell us on Friday nights at our Shabbos table the story of his life because he was very proud of having done what he did and
having left and bought my grandmother over and so he told us that when he was 10 years old he took his friend down the road in the village to a house that they lived for daughters the youngest of the daughter's name was crystal he had never said a word to her but he always felt that he was gonna marry that girl and he told his friend he said I'm leaving for South Africa but I'm gonna marry this girl and and he left the next day and from the moment he left he wrote her letters for years and years and years and he also one day
to you she would like for him to put in papers for her in South Africa for her to come and be with him and she said yes and this was before the war broke out there was 19 probably 38 or 39 and they said yes and took it obviously takes a long time letters boats and for years and years they communicated and in the interim war broke out and Pretoria which is a capital of South Africa sent him a letter saying look Wars broken up now and would you like us to continue to process these papers for Kristal when he said yes definitely please process
these papers in the interim as my grandmother has told me she received these papers and on one day she said goodbye to her parents and all her sisters not knowing if she'd ever see them again she had to cross Nazi Europe to get to a boat in Italy to take her to South Africa the journey was almost impossible because ships are being sunk by German submarines all the tongue and the fact that she had to cross Nazi Europe to get to Italy it was a journey all of the time but I wasn't wondering to myself what kind of courage a 16 year old little girl
would have to have to take a boat to a parent and its sibling and walk out that door [Music] not knowing you should ever come back and see them she was she was spent on she was kicked around she was abused she was sweat she was treated in the worst way possible but not one time did she ever think about turning around which I feel luck would have been the easiest thing to do she told me one said she was in the train station going on her way to Italy Anna a nice gentleman walked up to and said she saw she had a lot of
pegs and he said can I help you carry your bags and she said oh yes thank you that would be really nice and he picked him up he said too by the way to use her word she said something you know your Jew and she said yes I'm a Jew he threw her bags down he said carry on damned bags did you pick the bags up and she carried on I don't know how she got on the boat and she made it to South Africa that was the first time my grandparents had actually met is when my grandfather went to meet her in Durban when
she came off the boat neither one of them could speak English at the time all this book was the image my grandfather was fluent in Yiddish Hebrew at that tongue Russian olive whatever the damage was over there and they started laughs together and they they went from not having anything to having a very large and successful business employing hundreds of people yet having no education and the one that were married 63 years they immigrated when they were 80 years old they coped adele's they were both buried in Dells and there was only one thing left my grandfather kid of it and his whole lot and
that was family and my grandmother he was more outgoing and jokey and a great sense of humor and she was more reserved because of situations of course her family had perished or had all perished in the Holocaust except for one sister who she only found in 1958 Luke was living in New York at the time and they made a trip over to New York soon as they found that out her sister was a love I made a trip over there they went there as often as they could and she died whew as major schism illnesses but if I could sum up grandparents in one word
it would be family yes my father's parents was what came from England but they were in South Africa way before second there's a lot more behind that but that's the basic story of of my grandparents always tell my children whenever they feel that they can't do something but they should never forget bet there's blood that runs through their veins is the same blood that ran through be great-grandmother's days and anything that they think they can't achieve by ever tougher this pales in comparison to what that lady went through one okay immigrated to the United States my grandmother came to visit me once we went for
lunch and we stayed for hours and she shared with me for the first time a lot of these stories and I think we left the restaurant 513 with God did one o'clock and we just said and she it was unlocker to speak but I think because I was living so far away she wanted to chase nothing much a second listened and listened so on your mother's side of the family where were your grandparents living what what city were they living in they lived in Johannesburg that my grandfather's business they were I started out as being tailors for people and eventually they had the old factory
making trousers and clothes for the retail industry in South Africa which was in a little town in South Africa called Villiers which was a very off record stone which would be and my grandfather actually became firstly he mastered the Ofra console and which he he wrote many articles for Jewish publications many of which I have he was what was the main character in Fiddler on the Roof anyway he was that you know I in in Jewish theatre and that's where they had their business was about an hour and a half outside of Johannesburg and my grandfather they actually lived there from Monday to Friday he
came home on shoulders and he stayed till Sunday and eventually he retired and he sold the business no he didn't he did not sell the business he closed the business has paid everyone what he owed them and and he came to live here because he wanted to be close with his family and your your mother's parents they they were you say they were from England my father's I mean your father's parents and what city did they live in Johannesburg and what business were they you know I don't really know we were not super close with him my father had ok relationship with him but they
would not bother grandpa which is not to say there was anything wrong with him they were just different so your mother's parents they lived in this small town and how many children were in the family on my mother's mother or my mother's father your mother had how many siblings what he now lives in Israel and then I could be mom and he has three children and we're in Israel does he live Skyfire what brought you what brought you to Dallas I get asked that question a lot and I the way up I answer it is two ways firstly I came here because I knew somebody
who lived can I ask you that those were the Simpsons Alec and Alona Simpson and they had four sons best of have four sons Ellie Karstens pastas pasta work and they four sons lived Stephen Sean Stewart and Shannon and in South Africa I was friendly with the brothers so when I decided to come to the United States I came to visit Lee but that is why I came to Dallas specifically but I always say that the reason it is very difficult for people who are not American to understand the magnetism this country has on people who live outside of it it is very difficult to
understand there is only one America and most people want to come to America is my belief what tell me a little bit before we talk about your coming here what your life was like as a child in South Africa I really had a wonderful childhood my parents were great parents my grandparents were always around they were great grandparents we wouldn't want particularly wealthy but we were not particularly short of anything in South Africa did you have a Jewish education I had a Jewish education up and tall which would be the equivalent of probably 14 maybe eighth grade and then I went to public school where
you're living in the small town at that time nothing none of us lived in a small town we all lived in Johannesburg we only my grandfather commuted to the town where his factory was so you were living in Johannesburg as a child yes and we went to toward your school and then you went to public school after that yeah and did you go - did you get a higher education I did not okay so then at some point you decided to come here and you had friends here and how did you fit but but how did you pick down she must have known people who
had moved other places the Simpsons would probably need people I was most comfortable coming to and be happy even though I knew other people did you have a trade at the time did I have one a trade I mean did you have a profession I after high school military services mandatory in South Africa I did my military service and after that I did I did an electrical trade I was electrician okay yeah and I was fortunately enough to be employed by the electrician and that's how I kind of got a taste of what it's like working and living in the United States the gentleman that
employed me his name was Stephen Cohen and he was also from Southern and I've never particularly enjoyed the work but I was always grateful for it because it gave me an opportunity as I said to taste what it's like to live in this great country and I never it's also in South Africa would come from a tropical climate in Texas as we all know is boiling hot in summer and having to get into a Dixon and fix stuff up in the attics during summer I went through that for a few weeks and I started figuring out this it's not gonna work so I put some
feelers out about other opportunities and I got a job in Houston with a family friends Gordon they were the sack family and their son David had a business in Houston and they they had emigrated maybe 25 or 30 years ago back when there were you know the riots in South Africa may have decided to leave and so they'd been here a long time and David offered me some employment and his company sponsored me and that is how I became legal in the United States in addition to that I learned the business he was in in Houston and decided to come back to Dallas because I
had more close family top frames over here and I came back yo and opened the same business that I was working for in Houston over here okay that is that was in 1993 I still own that business are still running and it's called the grocery Clearance Center and what we do is we purchase all types of grocery products that for whatever reason the big chains of distribution centers and manufacturers don't use for whatever reason could be damaged it can be closed dated it could be discontinued we don't really know the reasons for those all the reasons and we buy up this product and resell it
to the public and people say oh I've been in your store now I recognize now I know recognizing yes okay so but now I don't know how long ago you were there but we've moved we had two stores for quite some time and then we shut to the regional location now we just have a much larger location so where is the store now so I was the one that was in South Dallas it's still there but it's in a much bigger location we bought a old abandoned strip center in Oakland and we revitalize the strip center with egg using stall as the egg come alright
so I'll have to go on the web to get the new address like my neighbor across the street she and I have gone there many many times loaded up the car Thanks so I know that's funny because every time I come down to do one of these interviews I I kind of joked with the Debora about I know I'm gonna find some kind of a connection with everyone I interview that's true and now I realize who you are so that's the connection yes I've been in your business many times it's strange but thank you oh you do yeah extra well the punch card was actually
only started when we opened the second location so that you could have already been to that one the second location yeah I never knew that there were two yeah but you say you've opened up it but you've done something what's that lovely the others we have a big walk-in cooler now we have a lot of fruit and vegetables it's worth the trip I know it's always been worth the trip so did does your wife is my wife was born to be a mother that's what she's that's in her DNA and she's good so aside from your very successful business and being involved with that and
expanding it are there any other things that you're involved with here in Dallas and the Jewish community no not really it's I mean we belong to how about a play mode and bonitas pretty active with the events and the stuff that goes on there so it's sort of way out so when you came to Dallas how did you find it in terms of integrating into the community obviously had these close friends but what about the rest of the integration process was it easy for you was it difficult you know I feel like even to this day a lot of people comment on on what a
great community we have here and when I say a lot of people comment I mean it that I have friends that might come visit me from Arizona or from Maryland or from different parts of the country and when they come here and they sort of exposed to the top of community we have here that always leave going this incredible community initially in the beginning of years before I meant Bonita before had kids they what there wasn't a whole a whole lot of integration for me I really stuck with the people on you and I didn't really venture out to say the JCC or Jewish events
like that not for any reason other than I felt like ahead what I needed you know and I feel like there's a lot of people that arrive in a city that do come here because they don't have maybe the sort of friends that I had and you know that's not a judgment I'm just saying at that time I didn't feel the need to reach out and it and I was working day and night I mean you know what it takes to open and sustain a business today and so the little time I had I spent with my friends and you know we had shove us
at in their mom's house and we were always there was always something going on once I made Benito by the way Peters brother Neil introduced me to a mentor and so and we and I'm still very friendly with Neil I'm very fond of English broker and so once I met Bonita then sort of things you know what you get married to settle down get the kids away that's how our lives and expand if there was something that you wanted to say to your children in terms of what you would leave them as a verbal legacy what would that mean I feel like I tried to
do that every day I don't feel like I'm not saying anything to them that I wouldn't say now that I haven't already said there's nothing I could put on this video that they didn't already know that I said and the only thing that I always say is I'd try to have them remember the journey their grandmother took was to me that is everything if I can remember that they laughs will be easy thank you Gary this has been really a very touching interview I thank you so much for sharing your story and especially the parts about your your grandmother but also that the whole story
I think it's very meaningful and I think you've done a great service to your to yourself tears to the community and to your family thank you all thank you thanks for being persistent in getting us to cover it absolutely that's my job I love it you