Henry Salzberger
Henry X. Salzberger was born in Fargo, North Dakota, on August 30, 1905, one of eight children in a family shaped by immigration. His mother came from Russia and his father from Hungary, and his maternal grandfather, an Orthodox rabbi, was called to lead a congregation in Fargo, which is how the family settled there. He grew up in a small but close Jewish community of about fifty families, graduated from high school in Fargo in 1922, and went on to the University of North Dakota, graduating in 1927. He then earned a scholarship for graduate work at New York University, studying retailing, and lived with a married sister in Brooklyn while he studied.
Retailing became Salzberger's lifelong field. He was associated with Bloomingdale's in New York, serving as a vice president until 1951, when Federated, of which Bloomingdale's was a member store, purchased Sanger Brothers in Dallas. He was sent south to become the store's first president, arriving in September 1951 with his wife and three children. He recalled Dallas as a conservative city and remembered removing a segregated water fountain sign at the store, and later helping break the color barrier at the store's food counter during the civil rights era. He led the store through its merger with the smaller A. Harris to form Sanger Harris and championed the trend of building branch department stores where customers lived. He retired in December 1965. His first wife died in 1965, and he remarried in December 1966.
Salzberger joined Temple Emanu-El soon after arriving and served as a vice president, holding warm memories of Rabbi Levi Olan, though he had grown up Orthodox and embraced Reform Judaism as an adult. After a corneal transplant in 1965 left him unable to read for six weeks, he found a lasting mission in serving those who could not read. In 1969 he founded Dallas Taping for the Blind, which grew from two recording booths into a major statewide source of taped materials, including school books for dyslexic and visually impaired children. He was also involved with the North Texas Radio Reading Service, the Foundation for Visually Impaired Children, the State Commission for the Blind, and many civic causes, including the Dallas Theater Center, Edna Gladney Home, Planned Parenthood, SCORE, and FEMA disaster relief. He received the Sioux Award from the University of North Dakota for career and service achievement.
Full Transcript
This is Rose Biderman. I'm with the Dallas Jewish Historical Society. It's Tuesday, November the 15th, 1990. I'm in the office of Henry X. Salzberger at 3110 Fairmont Street. Mr. Salzberger, would you please state your full name? In Hebrew or in English? Both? Either? In Hebrew it's Chaim. In English it's Henry. And my middle initial is X, as it states on my breath certificate. And my last name is Salzberger. S-A-L-Z-B-E-R-G-E-R. Would you please tell me where you were born? in Fargo, North Dakota on August 30th, 1905. 1905. So I am 85 years old right now. Now you told me that your parents came from Europe, your mother from Russia and your father from Hungary.
Do you know what brought them to the United States? Why? In the case of my mother, her mother had died. Her father emigrated here and subsequently brought his three children over. In the case of my mother, I really don't know. I don't know the circumstances of coming over. Did they get married in this country? Yes. Why did they go to North Dakota? Well, they didn't start there. They went where my grandfather went. My grandfather lived in Kansas, in Fort Scott, Kansas. And that's where they were married, my mother and my father. My grandfather, my mother's father, was a rabbi. And he was called eventually to Fargo to be the rabbi of an orthodox shul in Fargo And that how we arrived in Fargo and that where seven of the eight of us were born What do you mean he was called to be a rabbi there?
He was a rabbi and they needed a rabbi. How people go about trying to find one, I can't tell you. Okay, okay, but they needed a rabbi there. He was one. So he came to Fargo. And so he went to Fargo, and he was the rabbi of an orthodox shul. Shul. Okay. Uh-huh. And did he live in Fargo the rest of his life? No, he didn't. I can't tell you the exact year, but they moved to Chicago, and they lived there for the rest of their lives. Okay, okay. He had two wives. The first one, as I said, died, that's when my mother came over here.
And he married again here and had a bunch of kids after that, nine children after that. He had twins on both sides with both wives. My mother would have a twin. That's interesting. So you grew up in Fargo and you attended school there? Graduated high school there. You graduated high school? 1922. And what about college? That's on the piece of paper there, but I worked for a year between high school and college, and then went to the University of North Dakota, where I graduated in 1927, got a scholarship to New York University, and went there for the next year for my graduate work. Do you have any memories of Jewish life in Fargo?
Was it a large Jewish community that you recall? Fifty families. Fifty? Five approximately. And they were pretty close together. Yeah. both physically and mentally. They lived almost ghettoish in one part of the city. Those who had more means were spread to other births in the city. But essentially it was a poor community Yeah I guess that was a big change to leave that small community and go to New York to go to school. Well, I had a sister who was married and had gone there previously. And I came and I lived with her while I was in school. She lived in Brooklyn and I traveled from Brooklyn to Washington Square.
Did you study business in the... Retailing. and that's what you went into. That was my field for the rest of my business life. I know that you were associated with Bloomingdale's in New York. Again, the Vitae List, I was with Blue King Bloomingdale's in 1939, I believe. I was there as the Vice President until 1951 when Federated, which is a member of which Bloomingdale's is a member store, bought the Sanger Brothers store in Dallas. Right. They sent me down here to be the first president of the Sanger Brothers store. That's how I got here in September of 1951. In 1951. Were you married then? Oh, yeah.
Where did you get married? married? Well I've been married twice. My first wife died. I was married in New York City. My wife died in 1965 in August and I was remarried in December of 1966. So you moved to Dallas. You were already married and had a family. I'm going to ask if you can recall what your maybe your thoughts were when you came to What kind of community did you find when you came to Dallas? Do you recall? Maybe an example that I did might express what I recall. On the first floor of the store at Sanger Brothers were two waterfowlons, and one of them had a sign on it for black only.
And I walked up, picked up that sign and carried it and dropped it in a wastebasket. That was my first impression of whites versus blacks because I had never run into that before So we started something in the store I want to tell you there was a great deal of whispering going on in the restaurant That's what we did, nevertheless. It was even a more conservative city then than it is today. It certainly leans toward conservatism today, but it was even more so in 1951. And there's all kinds of evidence on that. What kind of a Jewish community did you find when you moved here?
A good one. I joined Temple Emanuel almost immediately. And we're very welcome. Dr. Leftwoods was still alive, but he only lived for a couple of years after we arrived. And Levi-Helland came subsequently. They overlapped. So the first temple we went to was at South Oar. That's right. And we took part in the building, the current building, financially as well as morally. Then you were, if I'm not mistaken, then you were with Sanger Brothers when they merged with A. Harris. I believe that was in 61, wasn't it? I would say 63, but I'm not sure. Okay. Early 63. That's putting a card before the horse, because A.
Harris was a much smaller stone than we were. So they were merged into us in the Sanger Brothers. And it became Sanger Harris then. And that's what had remained until currently when it became B. Yes, to me very unfortunately that name is lost. Yes, lots of people are sorry that the name was lost. Yes. That's the current life. Well, but it was a very historical name to Dallas. It was opened in Texas in 1857. Yes. It had a long history. That's right. Where did you live when you moved to Dallas? What part of town? Did you live in South Dallas? South Dallas was changing at that time.
We lived in North Dallas, so far north, And if we looked north of our house, all we saw were fields and grass. And that wasn't far out there, because we were a block south of Royal Lane. Oh, my goodness. There was nothing north of the lot of Royal Lane in 1951. That's hard to believe, isn't it? It is. When you look at what has happened since. Right, right. Okay. Did your children go to school in Dallas or were they older? My children were 11, 14, and 16 when they came here. So they all went to school here. Two of them went to Hillcrest and one went to Jefferson.
And they all went to the University of Texas. Oh, uh-huh. And I'm the three of them. The eldest is an attorney here locally. The second was a girl, and she lives in El Paso, was married to a banker. And my youngest son is with the Bilo Corporation, who is the manager of their television station Tulsa, Oklahoma. And my new wife has three sons, all married. One is now divorced. I'm married, and they have five children, so, and my children have eight children. So we have thirteen grandchildren. Uh-huh. So with thirteen grandchildren and all those children and in-laws, we have twenty-five birthdays and Hanukkahs to remember plus that birth anniversary Uh Then did you meet your present wife in Dallas No.
Is she from Dallas? No. She was in Washington. Oh. She and a... and one of my sisters were first cousins. Oh, uh-huh. And we met in Washington at her house. Did she mind moving to Dallas? Well, I don't think she liked it too much. She was perfect willing and wouldn't live anyplace else now. In fact, we've discussed it many times. When I'm no longer here, she still plans to live in Dallas, given how she has children spread across the country. Washington, one in Berkeley, California, and one in Chicago. They are as widespread as possible, but she'd still choose three of them now. Now you came here in 1951 to be with Sanger Brothers, and you retired from Sanger Harris in 1965.
December 1965. 1965. I may not be putting this right. Were the executives or was the thinking of Sanger Harris civic-minded? I'm recalling Alex Sanger from the very beginning who was very civic minded in Dallas, he more so than his brother Phillip. And I just wondered if that continued. I know it was no longer in the family, so to speak, the Sangers. Well, so to speak, he went to a Catholic family. And E.P. Simmons purchased it. Uh-huh. And he ran it until he died and Federated bought it from his estate. Oh, I see. I see. Now, how civic mighty he was vis-a-vis Jewish things, I don't know, but I would have brave reservations about whether or not he put very much money into Jewish affairs.
Well I really didn necessarily mean Jewish I just meant for the I have no idea Okay but when you were associated with the store was there much in the way of civic involvement Oh, very much. Very much? In everything that was involved in the community. Right, right. Was that true in most stores, department stores? Well, it's true of most federated stores. I can't tell you about other stores. I didn't work on other stores. Okay. All right. Well, that's good enough. That's fine. Am I leaving something out about your retail life? Well, not really. We chose in 1957 to build the first branch department store in the Press and Center.
Although Neiman Marcus had been there a couple of years before. They're not a department store, as you well know. Right. We catered to all levels. And ours was pretty limited. So we started to trend really toward branching out, and from that point on it blazed. Yeah. Was that an innovation in Dallas, or was that all over the country? It was almost all over the country. We chose to go where the people lived. And our biggest competitor in the city, which is St. Gettinger, decided that they were going to believe in downtown and double the size of the downtown store instead of going to Branch Field.
Well, as a result, they were very late getting into the Branch Field and never were really successful, other than the one store they had in North Park. That was the only successful right store they had. We were the biggest business in North Dallas at that time. I well remember. It still a big business And Far North or Valley View is the biggest retail business in Dallas of any retail store Oh really That's interesting. Well I'm going to ask you now, since I know a great part of your life has been with many phases of helping with the visually impaired. I'm going to ask you what caused your interest in that field of endeavor.
Well, I haven't just been confined to that area. I run my efforts very broadly in the community. And the list that I've submitted to you, it will tell you all the things I've done. Right, but I know a great... I'll tell you. Okay. I'll tell you. Okay. Who can answer your question? In 1965, I had a Corneille transplant, and I left Dallas. Here in Dallas? No, in New York. Went to New York. I went back to New York. And that was not very common in 1965. And I went to the best known at the time. He was a Spaniard by the name of Raymond Castrogliejo.
Anyway, at that time it meant that I was completely without the ability to read, because I had a patch on my eye that came out about three inches from my face. That doesn't happen anymore. If you wear glasses, then your glasses are three inches away from your eyes. Otherwise, I can't work at all. I couldn't read for six weeks. And I was really concerned then, what do people who can't read at all at any time? And that really started my interest in it. I see. I see. I believe in 1969 you were the founder of the Dallas taping for the blind and so from what you just said that that sparked your interest in helping those people.
The formal founding has always preceded by a great deal of groundwork. I'm sure. So there was lots of effort involved. We had our 20th anniversary in October of last year. But when you started this, at that time period, how many people were working with you? You must have done quite a bit of the work yourself to lay the groundwork. I hired a senior citizen woman to be the executive director. And you may or may not know her right name. She's a golden anchor now, Blanche Lefkowitz. Oh, sure. Blanche was the first executive director of Della Taping of Blinds. Oh, how interesting. So she and I worked together and little by little we got volunteers.
It's a volunteer organization. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Have you ever seen the facility? I have not. You ought to see it today. It started right next door to here. We had two recording booths. It was all volunteers. It was stretched far and wide for them. It's interesting how you can get volunteers for this kind of service, because almost everybody has an aunt or an uncle or a grandparent who can't see or has difficulty in reading. And the more they hear about us, they volunteer. Now, our first job was with the Library of Congress in Washington. We were not doing anything locally at all. Well, what does that mean?
What part did they play? Well, as an agency of the Dallas Public Library of Congress, a vision for us physically and visually handicapped, they provided books for us to read, other than educational material, other than informational, mostly informational and fictional. We had no choice and still have, we're still working for them by the way. Oh, wasn't it? On a contract. They furnished the material we have no choice of material but we read We have to read what they give us We make a master take which we send to Washington They pass upon it accept it or reject it We've got pretty professional people now doing it.
Professional in quotes because they're not paid for doing it. Because of their expertise, they're as professional as a page reader can be. They're just reading out loud, is that right? They're reading out loud. It's a three-man, three-woman team. They're in a soundproof booth, and someone outside of that is operating the recording equipment and reading to herself along with the person who's reading out loud. If the reader makes a mistake, the monitor stops and says, whoop, go back and begin with a sentence, this is. And that then erases the part that was really mistaken. And they go on. Our volunteers work one day a week or two hours.
but they must be the same two hours every week because there are three people involved in recording a book. I told you about two. The third person is a reviewer who comes in between their two sessions. Between Tuesday this week and Tuesday next week, a reviewer comes in and listens to the work and makes a report on any mistakes, any errors, anything that she thinks or he thinks. So when they come back for their next session, they must go back and correct the error of the reviewer. I see. But you ought to go over and see that, because my telling you about it is nothing compared to viewing it.
Well, where did you get the equipment? Well... Did you have to raise funds to buy it? We had to raise funds to do everything we do. Until finally the United Way, and it was the community's estimate that took us under their wing. They now pay for about 75% of our needs We still have to go out and raise the difference in the community which we Now I said our first efforts were with the Library of Congress This is an interesting story because now it's a case of the tail wagging the dog. In February of ten years ago, two women from Richardson came in and said, We've got dyslexic children, boys, who are bright as they can be, but they can't read.
Would you put their elementary school books on the tape for us and let them hear it? Maybe they can learn by hearing it, but they can't remember reading. So we said, sure. Well, they didn't have fun. For us to be doing it for the entire state of Texas. And once you put books on tape, as you know, on a book, an elementary school book, it's statewide use. I see my wife is just walking in the door. Come on in. These two women started in another direction. In another direction. And before we knew it, we were the main source for reading material for kids who couldn't read in the state of Texas.
We now have over a thousand books on tape, elementary school tape. And as new books are accepted by the state, we put them on tape. We're prepared now for them before the kids even see them. Once they're selected, we get copies of them from the publishers at no cost to us. They give us the right to do them. So we have them on tape whether they're ever called for by anybody. So now we're able to fill the need before it even exists. Before, when we had a call, kids had to wait to get the book done. No, they don't have to wait. They don't have to wait as long.
Yeah. That's very interesting. In addition, we're doing books for the State Library, children's books. That's the third program. All children who are not yet at the reading age. Oh, I see. Preschool kids. Oh, yeah. Little kids' books. Uh-huh. We doing it now for the State Library Oh I see And we also augmenting the program for the universities for blind students who need elementary who need their material because our school book program is only from K to 12. They don't go beyond the 12th grade unless it's by request. So we're a busy place. I see. But in other words, a book requested by a college student, does that have to be approved first by...
Nobody. They ask for it. We get it. In many of our campuses, we have a member of the State Commission for the Blind, and they usually go through that first. But if there is no such person on their campus, they can come directly to us, if they know about us. Unfortunately, there aren't enough people who know about us. Oh, really? They don't know that we have, who are available to do this work. Really? We're the best kept secret of the state of Texas. No, I think my society, historical society, is the best kept secret. I have, in addition to what you gave me, I had made some notes.
I had a little bit on your background that you were also involved in Visual Research Foundation of Texas, a vice president. But what is the visual research? Is that in a different area? It's not in existence anymore. was an adjunct of the State Commission for the Blind. The State Commission has funds for the state and often there were projects that they needed that they couldn't get funded. So we founded this organization, raised money to provide needs that the State Commission needed for their members throughout the state. I have a clipping that you gave the land to the community chest that the building is now on that does the taping.
We provided the funding and the land. You're also involved in the North Texas Radio Reading Services. That's it. The second part of, let me take a step back. While we were only Dallas Tatings for the Blind, we learned of an organization known as, known for reading the daily newspapers for the Blind. And we said, why isn't this something we should do also? So we looked into it and formed an organization called North Texas, Radio Reading Service. We went to the community chest at that time and asked them if they'd help fund us and they said no. They said no, I don't know why at the time, maybe because we didn't go to them first.
Usually a member, and we were a member of the Statenland State, before they take on another project, they go to the chest and ask for permission to us. We just didn't do that. North Texas Radio Reading Center. As of October 1st of this year, we joined the two of them again, this time with a blessing of the United Way. So today, it's a new named organization. It's North Texas, reading, taping and reading, taping and radio for the blind. I have to think the new letters is a great name. North Texas, taping and radio for the blind. Somebody made a note of that at the bottom there, didn't they?
Wait a minute. North Texas taping and yes and radio for the blind right that encompasses the both uh-huh we too are both life members of the board meets quarterly although they call on us every once in a while for some advice And I said my wife is a volunteer wife She does anything that they need better that somebody doesn appear for example to do any one of the jobs See how Simon does that. Well, it's good to have someone that can... They're close by the morning, a little bit away from here. They have over three or four boxes. Oh, uh-huh, uh-huh. She will be there in five minutes.
Uh-huh, uh-huh. She's just there, available. Well you're probably involved in every phase of activity for, I notice you're a member of the state commission for the blind. I was. You were. Ten years. Uh-huh. Texas Society for Prevention of Blindness. I was also. was also on that I think I'll tell you very clearly what I say currently and previously on the list and where I'm currently involved I've indicated it with three asterisks so you can tell from there where I'm currently involved okay okay well see you're my information was a little bit dated Well, yours is up to date. So I'll look at yours. Mine is up to date.
So I think I'm safe in saying that you have been or are presently involved in probably every aspect of helping the blind or the visually impaired. That's closer to it. Visually impaired is more than just blind. Yeah, yeah. If you have multiple sclerosis, you're a plus full of distra. You don't have hands, you can't hold them. Physically impaired, which makes it difficult or impossible for you to read. I'm glad you said that because I think very few people would realize the complete scope that that means. Anybody who can't read for any reason. I think the exception to that would be the illiterate. We don't go out and read for the illiterate.
The physically handicapped that we read for have to get a note or permit, if you please, from their doctor saying that that's the case. I see That interesting Because we a non organization and the city can help support us We helping those who can read and the shortcomings of the city Yeah, yeah. I'm sure a great deal of your time has been in this area, but I see that you have also been very involved with the Edna Gladney home. We have two grandchildren from there. Oh. Is that the reason for your involvement? Well, I was involved before that. Before that. And I also knew that you had been involved in the Planned Parenthood.
For more than ten years on time. This is very impressive that you've really been involved in so many things. Dallas Home for the Jewish Aged, the Small Business Administration. Well, I'm sure you were quite helpful in that area. I remember SCOR. Now what does that mean? senior corps of retired executives. Oh, uh-huh, uh-huh. And anybody who came into the office, this was in the, in the, in the, uh, the building down there, went to that office to allow an application, and one of us, because of our background, was assigned to that person. Just to give advice or counseling? Counseling. I actually worked with them. Oh, I see.
Uh-huh. But you didn't give them financial help. No financial help. Just advice and counseling. Counseling and advice. Uh-huh. You've also been involved with the Dallas Theater Center and Metropolitan Opera? One of the founders of the Dallas Theater Center. Oh, alright. And you asked for involvement of a store. We were the largest contributors to the building in that building. Of the Theater Center? The Dallas Theater Center. We needed to help build the Dallas Theater Center You asked for involvement but that involved That continuing the Usanger tradition I know that you were Vice President of Temple Emanuel and probably on the board I hope you won't mind my asking, but you mentioned that your grandfather was an Orthodox rabbi.
And evidently you grew up Orthodox, but you must have changed or? Well, of course I learned Hebrew, but I didn't understand what I was reading in the parable. I said, this is crazy. I'm praying, but I don't know what I'm saying. And it wasn't until I got to New York that I learned that there were other sects, because in Fargo, North Dakota, there was only one. There was just the one congregation? One congregation. There was an Orthodox. Yeah. But when I learned the reformed Judaism, obviously, I turned another meeting. It was a member of various temples of my lifetime in the East. Uh-huh, uh-huh. And of course, joined Temple Emanuel of Oklahoma County.
Uh-huh, uh-huh. Was it any different from the temple in New York? Was it basically the same? It was basically the same. Is that right? It's not the same now as it was when I came to it. Uh-huh. Because it has become very, very much more orthodox today. Today. You feel that depends on the rabbi and... Oh, of course. It actually depends on him to some extent. But I don't want to comment on that, because Levi Olin was our god, really. We loved him dearly. And he was a true Reformed rabbi in our sense, in our understanding. The things that we're doing now, God bless them, if there are people who want them, but it's not for us.
I'm going to ask this of everyone. Did you ever have any experience in business or personal life with the KKK? None. None? Okay. Did you experience any anti-Semitism in Dallas, either in your profession or in your personal life? It's hard to pinpoint it. You know it exists. But it's hard to pinpoint it. We live in an apartment building a few blocks down the street. There are very few Jewish families in it. The only Gentile families in whose homes we have broken bread, they would count on one hand. It shouldn't be just on one hand. I don't think they'd run a five different people at whose house we've eaten before.
And they don't. But that's fine. In New York, when I lived in the apartment house, we didn't know our neighbors either. We didn't want to know them here. Did you find that the people here were friendly when you moved to Dallas? Was it hard to get to know people here? Well, of course. My position led to lots of associations. Yeah. So it wouldn't be typical at all. So it was quite easy for me because I was the president of the biggest store in Dallas. That opened a lot of doors. Yes. Yeah. I bet you enjoyed that position. Personally, I didn't because I'm more likely to be a loner rather than one who likes to get around lots of people on the town.
I don't even today. My wife will be. Well, you were, um... I had to. Yeah but your training had been in retailing As president did you really involve in retailing or more PR work I was running the show So you were still, even as president, you were... I was responsible for the bottom line. Okay. You weren't just making contacts and goodwill. It was hard enough to get customers instead of contacts. See, we were located downtown in the area, in El Centro College. Right, right. Or we were when I came there. Well, when you came it was a period of transition, and... Why didn't you tell the story of the black and white?
You did. I told them in order. Yeah. I was invited to speak to a class at Alexander College. On retailing? Yes. Uh-huh. And I said, you may think you're in a classroom, but you're really in the men's shoes environment. I'm going to ask you what this means because I'm not sure I know what it means. You were a member of the Federal Emergency Management Administration. It's called FEMA today. today. Anytime there's a disaster, the federal government heads for it. FEMA is the organization of the federal government that's in Hollywood. You go there and help as best you can anybody who has been in that disaster who needs assistance or needs money or food or what.
I was a member Well, what exactly did you do? Whatever needed or? Whatever needed being done. We met everybody. And we sent them. Let me start back. When we set up in a gymnasium in the city, whether it been a disaster All national organizations that are helpful to people whether they are financial help or the Red Cross is there everybody who is helpful to people who are in trouble. We sign them up and then we tell them, these are the agencies that you should see. Okay. And you then get to talk to those specific people to take care of your needs. So that's FEMA. Are you still a member of that?
How long were you involved in that work? That's very interesting. I didn't realize. Maybe ten years. But we went all over the country. Oh you did? That was just Texas. Oh. Wherever there was a disaster you would go? When there was a blizzard in Providence, Rhode Island, I was there. Well, how did you get to be a member of this particular... Well, I'm here. They're always looking for volunteers. Oh. All the work I've done since I've been retired is I've volunteered. Right. Until I've gotten to be as old as I am, I was constantly looking for jobs to do. I see. Because I was, I'm sure I'm not the only one completely unaware of that.
I know when there's a disaster, the Red Cross comes in, and the federal government in some way, but I didn't know how exactly. One of the many agencies, the Veterans Administration, the man's a veteran, and the Veterans Administration can help him better than anybody else. So we direct him to the Veterans Agency. I see. There they are. You name the federal agency that would be involved in any disaster. It's providing housing and everything else. Housing, man, would be transitional. Yeah. Helping them rebuild. Helping them get a loan to help finance the rebuilding and whatnot. So, there are lots of agencies who are helpful. You can't run around and say, where do I go for help?
I'll get this problem, where do I go? We say, come to us, we'll help you. We get everybody together we could be helped All in one time I see I see Very interesting Do you have any connection with retailing today None. Thank goodness. Do you think that it's changed or is it basically the same? No, it's changed. It's changed? In what way? How has it changed? How long have you lived in Dallas? I've lived in Dallas. All my life. Name the department store that exists in downtown Dallas today. Today, there's not a department store. That's how retailing is changed. Yeah. It has moved completely out of downtown areas.
Yeah. Except in cities where people live downtown. There's apartment living in New York or Chicago or Philadelphia or San Francisco where their apartments are downtown. You've got stores downtown, but downtown Dallas today has none of that at the apartment store because there's no place to live downtown. All the living has been most in the north. And that's where the retailing is going. Retailing follows where customers are. Yeah. Well, yeah. Now, I would have, was it yesterday's paper that story of the plan developments from all the downtown area. Yeah, it's a separate supplement. A separate supplement. If downtown Dallas finds a way to build apartments in downtown Dallas that has people living on the premises, retailing can return, in my opinion.
All this talk about building a mall in downtown Dallas, to my way of thinking is just poppy guy. Why in the devil would anybody out in the suburbs want to come to downtown Dallas and shop? It's crazy. Until there are people living there, there's no need to build shops. There's an empty Dallas Sanger Harris phoning store. There's an empty tights of scar. Even one has an occupant. Right. That are available if you want retailing. You have a black population, I won't say that in a mean way, who work downtown and on Saturdays I'm a founder, one of the founders, a continuing member of the Board of Directors, of the Foundation for Visually Impaired Children.
We're a foundation that supplies the services that I referred to before having helped the state commission for the mind. They budget that the visually impaired children is to help the United Way. When they need things that the United Way won't help them get, our foundation raises the money to get it for. How do you do that? By going to individuals or businesses? You have to go to individuals. If you're the United Way agency, you can't make any fraud in. The only way you can raise it on the end is me talking to you or writing a note. We can't send any broadside letters. So our members go out and ring doorbells.
How large is your membership? It's a small door. Maybe fifteen members. But they're involved. Do you do any work with the Scottish Rite? Children? I'll tell you what we did for them. They needed books on tape for children. And they furnished us a list of a hundred books that children would like to read, or that children read. And we put them on tape for them, a little bit. The Scottish Rite Hospital has a hundred books that we did, kids books, that they can play over and over again. The kids are in the hospital. Have you done that for all the hospitals or No but we constantly notify homes with people with disabilities or some sort We have a radio reading program.
And our radio reading program furnishes the radio. It's a broadcast that you can only receive on a special radio. Oh. And we have to furnish that radio. You have to furnish the radio. Yeah. And we furnish it at no charge. And when they know they have news for it, we hope we get it back. And there again, we have to raise the money for that because that's a capital investment, and United Way doesn't pay for capital investment. Any equipment that we have in any of our agencies, we've got to go out and raise them on a one-to-one basis. Well, it's really very interesting, and I've learned a lot.
I'm going to, I would like to go back to talking about Dallas. That's primarily what my society is interested in, is remembrances and impressions of people who either lived here all their life or moved here. And you came here in 1951 and you went to work for Sanger Brothers. And is that when you lived on Royal? We lived on Lenox Lane, a lot below Royal on Lenox Lane. Was that, would you consider that a Jewish neighborhood? No. Have you ever lived in a Jewish neighborhood in Dallas? I don't think there is a Jewish neighborhood in Dallas, but there is. I don't know where. Okay, okay.
There may be some... I think there's some areas that are preponderable. Well, I think the area around the Jewish Community Center would be considered... Really? There's quite a number of... That for their convenience I would expect Well it sort of centered around there In 1951 there was still a Jewish neighborhood in South Dallas, but it was changing. But had your previously, had you lived in a Jewish neighborhood? Was that a way of life with you? Some people have always lived in a Jewish The only time I lived in the Jewish neighborhood was the city where I was born. One of my sisters counts the kids who lived on our block of the Jewish children.
I think she has 112 children, the Jewish children, in the block of the middle. Were you in... go ahead. There was a period of time there that essentially between blacks and whites and others, you should serve blacks in restaurants. Uh-huh. And we broke that barrier in Dallas at our counter in the Sanford Food Department. Oh, really? Yeah. You remember what year that was? I don't know. Was it soon? It was during that, all that excitement. In the 60s or earlier? It was during the height of that, when it was starting to be important. And Sam Bloom was involved. Okay, okay. What do you remember about Sam Bloom?
A hell of a guy. Wonderful gentleman. Doing very well. And he was deeply involved in that. Now I have something about him that he called together all the newspaper editors or publishers in all of North Texas, Dallas, North Texas area, and told them something to the effect, print just the news, don't embellish it, don't inflame, just print what's happening, Don't stir anything up at that time period to keep a lid on. He was a newspaper man. Right. Well, he was in with Classified. He was a super advertising man from the time zero I knew him then because we bought space from him Uh huh uh huh He must have been quite a salesman, I think.
He was. He really put a fine gentleman. I remember him. I didn't know him, but I remember Mr. Bloom. Do you remember anyone else who may have had an influence at that time in Dallas? You remember Julius Sheps? He was supposed to have been active at that time period in helping smooth the relations. Well, things that disturbed me are things that had his name on it. That's substantive, we were changed. The center, the center, was the Julius Shepsen. You know, some people decided, well, no, that wasn't right. He didn't want it to be a Jewish center. He wanted it to be for all kids of any religious thing.
But I don't know anything about his current membership, but I would guess that it was essentially Jewish. Well, it's open to anyone. Yeah, well, I hear what you say. Okay. I think it is essentially Jewish. But he didn't want that to be Jewish, the way he felt about it. That was a fine deal almost. He claimed he was related to everybody. Well, it's very possible. We meet lots of people in Dallas and we have to find out for sure, before we say anything about anybody, they aren't cousins. Do you have any relatives in Dallas other than your own? I have no. I have a son there.
Uh-huh. But all of your immediate family never moved here? No. Uh-huh. My siblings now are all Californian. Oh, really? Almost. In the Los Angeles area. Did any one of your family come here? You stay in North Dakota. My father is buried there. He's the only one there. Is that right? What about the Jewish community there? Is there still a... There is a Reformed community there now. And we visited it in 1987 when we went up to Grand Forks, the University of North Dakota thing. we went to Fargo, which is a place where I was born. And the residents both were in the Shul. Yes. Is the Shul still there?
The old building, though. But they still have an Orthodox congregation. Yes, they have a Orthodox congregation. How large is the Jewish population there now? About the same? I don't think there's maybe a hundred families. Although I may be understanding that. Okay. I understand you received an award from the University of North Dakota. The Sioux Award. In the Clipping. In the Clipping? Yes there Okay What was that What did that mean Well in That Sioux Award Oh it says here outstanding career and service achievement. Well, I think that was very well given. Can you think of areas that I did not cover that you would like to comment on about Dallas, the Jewish community, about federation.
Were you active in federation in Dallas? I was the vice president of federation one day. I don't know if that's even on with it. I don't know if it's on here. It's a large... It may not be. Did you work with Jack Kravitz? Sure. If you wanted to take time to go through material, I could sleep in here the rest of the day. You asked about this in the music. When I read... Thank you very much for this interesting tape.