Ida Kleinman
Ida was born in New York City to parents who had come from Austria, and the family moved to Cleveland, Ohio, when she was less than two years old after an uncle encouraged her father to pursue opportunities there. Her father, Nathan, was successful in the scrap iron metal business. Ida was the eldest of six children, one of whom died young. Because a little sister had whooping cough, her father bought a farm where the family spent summers, and Ida even kept a piano there. The home was deeply Jewish and kosher, with her father attending shul on Saturdays while remaining an Americanized, flexible man.
Never much of a scholar, Ida left school after her second year of high school and worked briefly in her father's office. She married her childhood sweetheart, Harold Leiter, around age twenty. Her husband first traveled for his father's concern and then they opened a successful dress shop in Cleveland. They had three children, and as the children grew, Ida helped in the shop on Saturdays. Harold died young, and Ida was widowed at age 39. Her teenage son stepped into the business and earned local notice for his abilities. She later married Mr. Rowler of the Rowler Wine Company, a marriage of more than nineteen years that included a yacht and a life she described as high, wide, and handsome.
From childhood on, singing was Ida's great joy. She trained in voice and piano for many years, studying with teachers including Mr. Summers and Felix Hughes, and performed in a show at the Deauville during a period living in Miami, though she sang for love rather than for pay. After being widowed a second time, she moved to Dallas, where her daughter Phyllis lived, and had been there over twenty years by the time of the interview. She sang gladly whenever the senior center or her clubs called on her. Reflecting on her life, she urged her grandchildren to be themselves, be humble, be good listeners, and do what makes them happy without hurting anyone else. She closed her interview by singing a cappella.
Full Transcript
I'm sitting here with my friend, Ida Kleinman. Good morning, Ida. How are you, darling? I'm fine. I have the honor of sitting with a very, very talented young lady. Ida, we've been recording everyone's lives and the way we do this is I always say, New, let's start at the beginning. Ida, where was your beginning? Where were you born? What year were you born? You don't have to tell the year if you don't want. I see the look on your face. No, I... Where were you born? In New York City. Oh, you're a New York girl. Okay. But not for very long. We moved to Cleveland, so it just seemed like I was born there.
Because I was just an infant when my folks left New York to Cleveland. Okay. Just a moment. Where did your parents come from, Ida? My parents came from Austria. All right. But you were their American child born in New York. Why did your family move? How old were you when your family moved to Cleveland? I must have been about, I presume, less than two years. All right. What do you remember about your early childhood in Cleveland? Why did your father move? Do you remember why he moved? He had an uncle that urged him to come to Cleveland. There were good opportunities for him. What business was your father in?
was in the scrap iron metal business, and he was very successful. That's wonderful. How many children were in your family? There were six. One passed away at the age of two and a half. And where do you fit into these six? Well, I was the eldest. All right. And me, Daddy bought a farm because of this child. She had the whooping call. She thought, as the doctor said, the fresh air would help her. As it happened, it didn't, because she was too managed. All right Ana what do you remember about your home as a young child Was it a traditional Jewish home Reform Orthodox How much Judaism was in your home There was heaps of Judaism but Daddy was not a fanatic He was a very flexible person and Mother went along with him, and we kept kosher home.
Papa went to shul every Saturday, but he was an Americanized Jewish man. How long had he been in America? Oh, I really, well, he came as a youngster. Oh, all right. So he had been here for quite some time. Do you remember anything about your early school years? Oh, yes. I was never much of a scholar, but I always loved to sing. And with that, I got away with murder. Even in kindergarten, do you remember your... I don't remember going to kindergarten. Mm-hmm. and I had a very beautiful childhood until I got married. Well, let's talk a little bit about your childhood then. What remembrances do you have?
Well, Daddy bought a beautiful farm because of this sick little sister that I had. And we enjoyed it every summer. We packed our Zibnzachen, as they say. Zibnzachen, right. Right. And there was a caretaker living yearly downstairs in this home on the farm, and we had a lovely furnished upstairs. I even had a piano. That's how much I loved music and had it with me. How old were you when you started learning music? Oh, I must have been about twelve years old or less. And then I, Papa recognized a pretty voice, and I loved to sing, as I said before. And this same teacher also taught voice.
So I became, I think, one of his youngest pupils at the age of 12 or 13. Had you ever partaken in any choirs or things at school? Yes, I had opportunities for choirs even today, but I just feel that I need the relaxation and I need to live with myself a little bit. Of course, now, but in those days... All right so you were 12 when you started your musical training That right What about relationship with other kids in school Did you belong to organizations choir groups Jewish organizations Did you go with other girls? What social activities do you remember in those years? Well, I had like the average lot of girlfriends, and I had young boys early in the formative years, you know.
And my papa was well known in Cleveland, Ohio, Nathan Committal. I have a brother now that's very well known. He's an attorney, Sam Committal. In Cleveland. And in Cleveland. And I have a sister there and many relatives. What things did you used to do as you were growing up for social enjoyment, young girls and young boys in Cleveland? Well, just Saturday afternoon, we had a little tea or coffee at our home, and I loved that. And I socialized, not overly, but I was a very happy person because I had beautiful surroundings with a lot of Yiddishkeit, and I loved it, and I still do today.
Did you belong to any Jewish organizations as you were growing up? No, I don't recall. I don't think I was beware of it even, you know. All right. How far did you go in school? I went to the second year of high school, and I never did like too much schooling. And Daddy didn't know what to do with me in those days. Now they send their children or girls or whatever abroad or they travel. They're more self-sufficient, or life is different today than it was in yesterday years. Yes, absolutely. And so I just, and I got married very early. I was, I would say I was boy crazy, I must admit.
Yes. How old were you then when you married? Twenty years, which isn't out of line too much. No, not really. And my childhood sweetheart, Harold Leiter. What did your... And he was 21. All right. And he had... So when you got out of your second year of high school, did you work at all on it? Uh, Papa gave me a little pail with, uh, to put some lunch in, and he says, come down to the office and answer telephone calls Well we had a man that was a bookkeeper telephone He took charge of that but Dad had to do something with me, and he couldn't send me a Broadway as they do today.
All right. Then, so you worked in the office and you got married. What did your husband do for a living? My husband, he at first traveled for his dad's concern, and then we opened up a dress shop in Cleveland, Ohio. And he was very successful, but he unfortunately died very young at the age of 40. How many children did you have? I have three children, God bless them. I have two girls, one living in Cleveland, Phyllis Assure, and my son, Malcolm Leidner, and I have my little, my youngest, Eunice Becker, living in Cleveland. All right. Now, during those years that you owned the dress shop, were you working with your husband in the dress shop?
Well, at first I wasn't. the children were a little bit too small to leave them in the hands of maids and such. But as they got older, I came into the dress shop and worked on Saturdays. And nothing too serious. That's what my nature is anyway. It's not too serious. Not too serious. That's nice. That's nice. You'll never have ulcers. No. I don't think so. I haven't had them. Very good. And your children grew up in this time. What about your singing and your piano training while you were a young mother? Did you have time to continue this? Well, yes, I did. I took, spasmodically, I took voice lessons when I was married, and I had a wonderful teacher, Mr.
Summers, who I started piano with him, and he also taught voice. I was with him a few years. And Hughes, I forgot it, Felix Hughes, one of the foremost personalities for teaching boys. Now tell me though, you took all these lessons and you trained yourself. Yeah. Were you ever given the chance to perform during these years. Did you perform at all? I did for our little clubs that I belong to, you know, and I have... Did you ever do, we will look at them after the taping, did you ever do anything professionally for pay? Oh, no, I never, I thank God I didn't need it, and I just did it for the joy and the love of doing it.
Well, the love certainly shows when All right, let's pick up your life then. You were widowed at age 41 in Cleveland. No, at 39. All right, 39. And then what did you do? You were left with three young children. That's right. I still had the store, and I worked there, and I had my son who, when his father died, he came in the store to help me. Phyllis was married living out here, so that was too far away. And at the age of 16 or 15, he was acclaimed the second Marshall Field of the day, and I had, or he should have some notoriety about his, because it was in some of the papers.
I just don't have it. But he was really an unusual child. He was really more of a man than a child. And he was very successful then in the business. Yes, yeah. And what happened in your life at that time? Well, I was widowed then, and then I married Mr. Roller, who was in the wine business, and married to him for nearly the past 19 years. that's Cleveland Concern. I don't know if it still exists. All right, I'm interested. I'm young, and hopefully I will never face these things, but how does a young widow with three children meet someone? You know, did you go to, was it introduced through a friend, or how did the meeting come about?
Well, I was, my son was going into service, and I said to him, Malcolm, we'll have to see your aunt and uncle say goodbye to them I had just sold my car to cut down expenses I was out of business then I had the lease expired and I was out of business And that night I encountered Mr Rowler who was my sister and brother the rope bar their dinner guest So everything I believe in a little luck. A little luck. Because it's proved itself to me. And this man, my sister, had introduced a very lovely younger woman, but he said he wasn't interested. Now, when I met him that night, just by luck, I came home.
I had by that time I had a ruler with two children I had four bedrooms and I thought I know her and so I says Minerva I woke her up from her seat I said Minerva I met a real he-man and I hope to God he calls me just like that and I really if I ever prayed for meeting this man again I did and God helped me and two nights later he called said would you like to take a trip to Columbus where your son is now? He was inducted into service. So while driving, I told him my sob story of my widowhood. And like we all, you know, one word lifts onto another.
Right, right. You have to let go. It just comes naturally, I believe, when you have a listener. Absolutely. So, I married this Mr. Rowler who was in the wine business, Rowler Wine Company of Cleveland, and I really lived high, wide, and handsome. He had a yacht. I had a captain and I'm in season. I had a second mate, you know, for all this frivolity. Yeah, wonderful. And really, very few women can say that they lived. So then you traveled a great deal. No, we didn't travel too much with Eon because, well, we tried a couple of times to go to Cuba. We had little storms came up and so on.
But we enjoyed living on it. It was just beautiful living We had bedrooms and just like a home That wonderful The captain and the major So I really with my tragedy I really had a lot of happiness too And you were married to him for 19 years? Over 19 years. And to my first I was married. Well, it was nearly 20 and a half. So you were very fortunate to have had two very happy marriages. Yes, and where I didn't have to stint on anything that I wanted, which I was never a grabber, you know. While you were married to Mr. Roller, you continued your studying?
Well, on and off. I didn't make it a must, you know. Okay, well, Ida, how, we've come to that point of, okay, now, Now, how did you get to Dallas, and why are you in Dallas, and what happened, and did Mr. Rahler, you were widowed again after 19 years? Yes, he died, and I was widowed again, and my Phyllis and her husband, George, who's lives here so I decided I would make my home and come to make my home in Dallas to be near my child and children and that's how I came here. How long have you been here? Oh, it's been over 20 years.
Okay, what have you done in the last 20 years? Well, I have sung here and there, and not too much, but it's the way I like to live. I entertain, not lavishly, but just nicely. I don't do much of it anymore in the last year, so. Because, Kanahora, how old are you now? 86. 86. Beautiful 86. Beautiful. So you came here when you were 66. Well, approximately. Yeah. Okay. And how long have you been involved with the Santer or have come to the Santer? Oh, I, at first, quite a few years. Quite a few years when we were all over the other. What things did you used to do as a senior?
Well, just like I'm doing now. They call me to sing, and I'm always ready and very happy. And the other day when I sang you know I said to my Phyllis I don think I going to I quit while the quitting is good And I, you know, because the voice, you never know when it'll turn off on me. And through all these years that you've loved music, you've never really done it professionally, you've always just done it for your own pleasure. That's right. But how many years have you trained your voice? Oh, I don't know. For many years, I just never noticed. I sang in, there was one show in Miami, I lived in Miami for a while, Mr.
Rowler. One show, and I just can't think of the name, that I played Sang in an important role, and it was at the Deauville. Do you come out to the drama group here? Do you get involved with the drama? No, I don't want to be part of too many things, because I owe to myself to live a quieter her life and enjoy the fruits of my children's abilities. I have a fellow who has a beautiful voice. Did you hear her? Yes, I heard her. Beautiful voice. And she sings for the choir. She doesn't do as much as she used to. She says, Mother, I've sang for over 25 years, And I think I've done my share.
Right. In the years of your life, were you ever involved in any organizations, in any women's organizations? Were there ever... No, but I belong... Yes, I belong to so many. I belong to the Hunt House, or the... I think that's another. I know I pay news for about four or five, six... You and everyone else. Yes, that's right. Whoever calls, right. And if they ask me to sing and I'm able to do it, I graciously have that. Did you travel at all? Did you go anywhere? Yes, I took West Indies cruise, two of them. When did you do that? Well, my first West Indies was with my husband, Harold Leidner.
And then after he passed away some years, my son came into the business. He didn't quit school, but he went to night school. He was about 15, 16. And I think I told him he was called the second mile. Right. Tell me a little bit about the West Indies. What made you want to go to the West Indies? Well, you hear other people talk about it, and your curiosity is aroused, and there you want to see what they're talking about. Can you describe the trip? I mean... Well, the boat trip was most interesting, especially when you're single and you meet so many nice people, and I enjoyed each trip.
The second trip I took with my son. He was bored because a young fellow doesn't have much in common on these kind of trips. What about the countries you visited in the West Indies? Well, we didn't visit too many of the boat that stopped at different places. You'd get off for a little bit, and sometimes you did, and sometimes you didn't. So it was mostly a cruise. So you're really a boat lady. You love boats. Yes, on account of my husband. You're lucky. I get seasick when I get on. No, I never do. I never got a whisper of it. Well, you're very fortunate because it's a lovely way to go.
So you traveled mostly on cruises and you went to the West Indies. And I go to New York with my husband on a buying trip and about three times I went after he was gone so many years and I decided that wasn the world for me It was too much fuddy But you must have enjoyed the Broadway shows or plays. Oh, that part, yes. And that's the reason, and my son was so capable. After his daddy died he could do all of it. It seemed like the spirit of his father was right within him. You're very fortunate that he could step in. Yes, I was.
And he was, he... Where does he live now? Mason Dells. He's married to Helen. She was Helen Fox, Edda Fox's daughter. And what business is he in here? Well, here he travels for several companies. He's happy and busy. That's very good. He seemed very proud of you last week when you sang. Oh, yes. Very, very proud. What things, then, you just sort of like to give of yourself, if you can. That's right. and that's what makes me happy. Of course, right now at my age, I'm kind of slowing down on what I used to do because even though it's in the mind and in the heart, it isn't in the physical.
They just don't work together. So you've decided that you're going to live... Just a leisure life and whatever I can do good for anyone in any which way, I will always do. Well, Ada, your performance was certainly beautiful, I think. And what I usually like to ask people at the end of our talk is I tell them that these tapes are going to be kept in the library with your name on it as a permanent archive and someday your grandchildren or great-grandchildren are going to come in and sit down and listen to the life of their grandmother. Do you have any advice that you could give them on life or on living?
Is there anything you'd like to say to them, knowing that 50 years from now, one of your great-grandchildren is going to listen to you? I have some wonderful grandchildren. I have a little Judy there. I know she's going to do noteworthy things. I know she is in college. What advice would you give them? Of course, first of all, just be yourself. Be humble. Be a good listener. Humble is in a sympathetic way. And anything that will make you happy, that won't hurt anybody else. That's a beautiful thing to say. You do things that will make you happy, but don't hurt anybody else. That's a beautiful thought, Ida.
That's something that people can really base their lives on. All right, we have more room on the tape. Have you ever sung a cappella without a piano? Or have you always sung a piece? I always with a piano as a rule as far as I can remember Carolyn I just thought it might be nice to put a song at the end of the tape Oh I would love to But we don have a piano Well I can sing without it All right If I loved you, time and again I would try to say, all I want you to know. If I loved you, words wouldn't come in an easy way.
Round in circles I'd go, longing to tell you, but afraid and shy. I let my golden chances pass me by Soon you'd leave me Off you would go in the mist of day Never, never to know How I loved you if I loved you. That was beautiful, Ada, and you should continue to sing and to smile and be the sweet, humble person that you are till 120. I've enjoyed spending this time with you. Thank you. Thank you so much.