Jacque Prager
Jackie was born in 1926 at Mount Sinai Hospital in Cleveland, Ohio, sent there because her father, a traveling salesman, had family in Cleveland and none in Texas. Her father was raised in Oklahoma, where his family owned a business near Lexington, and her mother was born in Hungary, coming to the United States at age nine. Her father was persuaded to come to Dallas by his friend Nathan Levine, and the family settled in North Dallas. As an only child whose father had wanted a boy, Jackie grew up a self-described tomboy who rode horses, played cowboys with neighborhood boys, and received her first sewing machine at age eight. She lived on Kings Road, Throckmorton Street, and later on property her father and uncles bought on Midway Road in the Bluffview area.
Because the family lived in North Dallas rather than South Dallas where most Jewish families lived, Jackie described herself as looking in on the Jewish community from the outside. She attended Sunday school at Temple Emanu-El, often spending weekends in South Dallas with the Levine family, and enjoyed holidays such as Purim, Hanukkah, and Passover. She attended Sam Houston and Stephen J. Hay schools and then Highland Park schools. She attended the University of Texas, where she was active in student government, her sorority Delta Phi Epsilon, orange jackets, and was repeatedly named among the university's most beautiful girls. She married Barney in 1948 at the Baker Hotel, in a ceremony performed by Rabbi Lefkowitz.
Jackie spent her life in the garment industry, learning design, pattern-making, and cutting in her father's factory and beginning modeling at age four. After Barney's military service during Korea, they opened their own company in 1953, the Dahl Manufacturing Company, with the label Jackie of Dallas. Later she became a celebrated designer of coordinated maternity sportswear and a top saleswoman. She helped found and grow a fashion museum, working with Stanley Marcus and later housed at the University of North Texas. A licensed pilot, dancer, and later manager of the Temple Shalom gift shop, she remained active in Fashion Group and in Jewish community life. Widowed in 1989, she later reconnected with and dated Mort Prager.
Full Transcript
Jackie the sewer Budo Praeger and it is December the 4th 2008 and we are at Jackie's home and the address is 5200 Keller Springs Road in Dallas Texas and the building is called the Bonaventure it's a condominium and we're on the 11th floor looking out over the city and how do you like to be addressed your name Jackie Jackie okay now where were you born Jackie I'm a native Texan I was born in Mount Sinai Hospital in Cleveland Ohio and the reason for that is that my father was a traveling salesman and we had no family in in Texas and so he sent me home
to where my mother's parents and family and his part of his family were all lived in Cleveland and that's why I was born there and then I came back so I just was gone for just a few minutes where what part of the city what would you do you know your address when your parents where they lived when you were born in Cleveland you already in Dallas oh I already announced your parents I don't know where they lived when I was born I only remember well when I was a toddler we lived in an apartment building that is really still there I think it's just
been restored it is right off of oak lawn between Oak Lawn just east of Cedar Springs between there and Lee Park because I used to play in Lee park as a as a toddler and when I was I guess I don't exactly how old I was when he moved but we then moved out to Kings Road and it was very kind of country and we lived in the house that was owned by the family and they had this had been their home cottage and they built a brick home next door and we lived there for quite a while and it was it was really kind
of country there were horses and there were lots of animals at that time in that area and from there we moved when it was time for me to go to school we moved on to Throckmorton Street which was also in the Oakland area and I went to Sam Houston school until I was 10 and when I was 10 my dad and his and his brothers bought property in what is now called bluff you it was on Midway Road it was a one block of Midway Road that runs east and west and it was in this area called bluff you and they built three houses in
a row and we had those several acres I don't remember exactly how many maybe like somewhere around eight or ten acres there and we our houses were on Midway but the property went back to the street behind us which was Shore crest and then I lived there in that house with my parents until I got married yeah would you care to give us the date and a year you were born oh oh sure my birth certificate is says that was born in 1926 and the month August 17th very good the same day as Damian davy crockett he also was born on August 17 now were
you or your parents really first-generation Americans where were their mouths bobby was born in New York City and my mother was born in Hungary and she came here when she was nine years old and your father's parents where were they from also that hungry Ostia hawea area now what were the circumstances that brought your parents to Dallas well my father was really raised in Oklahoma and my grandfather and his brother owned us what I called the saloon on the River Inn in Lexington they lived in Lexington and it was two towns right together I was in I went blank was that in Oklahoma Oklahoma what
area east well he's wet cuz it was on that it was on the river that was that was near Lexington what was the large city that was newer than was it in the Tulsa area no don't we the south it was southeast it was southeast of Oklahoma south of Tulsa yeah and what brought them to Dallas well I think my my father I think started working in a ready-to-wear store for somebody even when he was very young if I remember correctly and I'm sure this is true but he said he said he used to work in this store when he was like seven years old
you know so what he did I don't know but apparently he worked for these whoever the people were that owned the store for a long time and when he was well he went to the war to the First World War and I guess when he came back he went I guess he was still working in this industry somewhere there where they live either in Lexington why I can't think of the other city but I will I will think of it anyway and so in my uncle was there too and so he I think he he was working in the store and Nathan Levine was a
traveling man who came from Dallas and came to Oklahoma and that my dad and they became friends and at that time Nathan was working for lorch's and so he then talked my dad into coming to Dallas the exact years of this I don't know because I can't I'm not sure if it was before or after my parents were married somehow another I don't think I was ever told letter it if I did I just don't recall so at anyway he came to Dallas and don't worry along the way between this he and my mother got married and so that's what brought him to Dallas and
they living here and I think I think what they first got married they might have lived for a short while in Shreveport I remember something about that but that was before I was born it might have been right after they were married I don't know how they got how my dad got from there that's Freeport unless it was just in traveling it was easier for him at that particular moment or something would you know about the year he decided to come to Dallas for the era well it had to be early 20s because I was I'm when I what what I remember is when I
was four years old but I must have lived here as a toddler so that was another two years at least before that so so that would be 24 so it must have been somewhere between 1920 and 1924 mm-hmm now tell us about your Jewish education where does the Jewishness fit in the home life well my father I guess there were not too many Jewish families where he lived and where he grew up and yet he had this very strong feeling about Jewishness and Judah Judaism and Jewish people so I just you know I still went to Sunday school as soon as I was old enough
and we had the acting was we always lived in North Dallas we never lived in South Dallas where everyone else was so as a result and since my dad folks were such very good friends with Nathan and Ann Levine and they had a daughter linkie who was just a little older than me she says we've been friends ever since I was born because she was born first and so when it became they were just good friends and we you know all the time went places together did things together went to you know my rock leg eight weekends together and things like that but when I
became a teenager that was a different story because there were very very few Jewish kids in my schools or in mine and not in my neighborhood there were none except my cousins and in my school very few even when even all the way to high school they were you could count us on two hands I guess anyway so when I became a teenager I bi gained another set of parents because I had weekday parents and weekend parents and I would be home and go to school and then on Friday unless I was having something at my house like a party which we did frequently my
mother liked I liked having them and she liked helping me give them so and everybody would come to me because they had to come from mostly from South Allison and in fact they would come and the girls would all stay I had a big sleeping-porch off my bedroom and we it was lying with beds and the girls were covered we would all sleep out on the porch and after the boys went home whoever his parents came to get them you know as we were still not in the driving instead but otherwise I was delivered to South Dallas on Fridays and I spent the weekends with
the Levine's and then I go to Sunday school close temple Emmanuel on Sunday and my dad would come and pick me up after after say school where was the Jewish education like at temple Emmanuel well in those days I guess it was we we learned I guess all the basic things I think I really remember I knew what all the holidays were the big ones I you know the little ones came and went and I really didn't know a lot of you know I mean I guess there's so much so much they could teach you on having you there on a Sunday and for those
few hours and so I don't know I always enjoyed going I know I remember being editor of The Sunday school paper and so but as far as I you know I've learned a lot more in the can as I've grown older you know and it wasn't what were some of the things written about on the Sunday school paper you remember I don't know I guess things that we're gonna go on or who can read that I don't remember I wish I had copies of them but I don't now what about high school where did you go to high school well I before high school from
Sam Houston when we moved out to bluff you I was 10 and I still was in grade school and so on there were no schools out there so Mike I had to go to Steven J hay which was also back in the Oakland area and then when it came to high school I was supposedly in the North Dallas High School District because there were up there was no other school anywhere closer to that and yet I was much closer to Highland Park because we were you know so my parents talk to whoever I don't know but at any rate I was allowed to go to
junior junior high in Highland Park and then to Highland Park High School then what about college you know well the University of Texas I really wanted to I I had ain't grown up in my in the factory let's put it that way and I liked it my mother never had a babysitter because she just had to take me to the factory I loved going there and I was that's not going to answer this question but it's gonna be another whole long story I'm gonna tell you but I loved going down and watching the ladies so the factory defined what the factory was all my father
went in business for himself and he manufactured ladies clothing ladies suits and dresses and I just thought it was fascinating you know I liked even when I was younger five six I really like I'd go down and I would like to stand behind the ladies and watch themselves and then I would go to the and I'd watch her make patterns and then I'd go to the cutting room and I'd watch them cut and so I learned how to do all of that just by being there and of course when the ladies would get up to take a break I would had already been to the
cutting room and I had already had my fabrics and I would run and sit down at their sewing machines to solve these fabrics dying to do it myself I wasn't rather adventurous kid oh and I'm very much a tomboy how old oh I guess I was five six seven something like that cuz I got my first sewing machine I think when I was eight yeah anyway so when other than then that I was my dad want I kind of go back in but my dad wanted a boy and he only had one child so I was both you know I was a boy I you
know and I was a girl we did we shot you know sit out on the front porch and shoot air but you twenty-twos the 22 and and matchsticks out there I had two older cousins in Cleveland who were boys who sent me all their toys which were all the guns and the cars and the marbles and all the stuff and I was pretty good at all that stuff in fact what we lived on Throckmorton Street I was the only girl everybody all of my friends in the block were boys and we played cowboys and Indians and I always had to be the Cowboys and bad
men or whatever but anyway I was always the bad person or the Indian or whatever because I could even though it wasn't very big I could run faster I could climb over the fences faster I could get up on the garages better faster and they couldn't catch me so I had to always be the person they were they were in a bad person that they were chasing you know anyway so and I had a big marble I had a big our our house there had a big boot long backyard and it duh my dad got me saying that I had a big sand place a
huge marble court back there so the boys loved coming to play with all my marbles and anyway so it was so dad and I you know we did things like that I and I'd loved horses and I rode sir you know and because right behind us was rendez-vous stables just to cross that short crest at the back of our property is where the stables were so I would though when you know as often as possible I'd come over to school and you know it was where I went to ride in the afternoons and so anyway but I also like the sewing and I like I
like the paper dolls only because I always was designing clothes for them you know and so as I said going back to the factory I spent lots of time there and did lots of learning there and because of the fact that I've kept sewing on these fast Spelling's reading up machines my thought everybody was just a sore finger she's gonna saw her fingers and I said I'm gonna show my fingers I know what I'm doing you know and I did you know I had White's blog enough anyway so when I was 8 I guess it was about the the men drove up in the truck
from the factory one day and all this great big factory machine up to my bedroom which my dad had it slowed down real much so and said so so I did I go but I forget fabrics and and my cousin Joyce was born when I was 11 and she was fine when she was toddler ring so by the time she was two I was 12 13 and it was fine I would get little fabric and I laid out on the floor and I cut out stuff and make her clothes so that was that was my fun thing to do besides the horses and and in
the trees I loved climbing the trees and if I ever wanted to get lost or if I ever got mad and I like what my mom and dad tell me I had to do I'd go climb a tree somewhere and have to try to find me one thing was quite I guess I don't think I was a problem kid I was just a curious kid at one point you mentioned not in this discussion but being a model well yes that was I started in my fashion business when I was 4 because my dad my dad at that time was working for Lawrence manufacturing company and
what's the past yeah I'm not quite sure although I know he was in charge of all the models and the fashion show that was and that they had for the markets and in those days those shows were held at the Dallas Country Club and so he wanted to do something that would make their garments just stand out from all the other manufacturers so he made dresses to fit me and I modeled it to match every one of those ladies dresses and so I modeled I run back and forth and change my clothes and run back out to model with the next one you know and
it's funny there must have been I don't know how many dozens of dresses that I modeled over those few years but the one I remember the most most my favorite was a dotted Swiss white with little red dots you know I can still remember that dress just like it was yesterday and I can't tell you anything about any of the others but that one was my favorite and I just and then I just after that I continued modeling I modeled there was a green brothers manufacturing company that made children's lingerie and I modeled for them for dramas and things and I didn't not only modeling
on runways but also all the photographs for all their ads and things like that would you comment on the Jewish presence in the Jew and the clothing manufacturing area well I was in it for a lot of years starting I guess I say when I was four and all the way up to well let's see what I got out in what 14 years ago 15 years ago so I didn't get out of the business until what about other Jewish manufactures well anyway I was going to say in all those years of the manufacturers especially the early ones they were all Jewish manufacturers with the exception
of two there was a Donovan gal veiny and there was a Maloof company and for most of the years until the more recent years that every every other manufacturer was a Jewish who were some of the Jewish manufacturers bloody was launches there was Howard wolf there was well that was a lot of the jobbers like Aegon bottoms and all of those but they're trying to think of all the others besides Lord Jennifer juniors yeah well yes disappears in there there was oh yeah I started with a be a Bogart sidrón the I wasn't that the gold what was the name of their the gold family
they I forget now the name of their line or what they called it but there were brothers we can cook there were there were more I just did the moment okay it's functionally so bait a little little list or something to remind me whether any well some of your school experiences do you want to talk about some of the school experiences and having gone to Highland Park were there a lot of Jewish what was the Jewish population very small I wasn't being Jewish a month it was fine you know it was it was you sort of I guess I didn't run I did cuz I
didn't run socially very much with them on and I think only because I didn't know them they're a body like you know you sort of if it's somebody that a few blocks away or down the block or whatever I was kind of removed being in buff you and they were all over there there were I guess I remember mostly in high school there were about ten of us that they lived more in the area that I really ran around with but which were the other Jewish kids but as far as in school I never had any a lot you know friends but when there were
school events or things like that it was I went but it wasn't anybody too much that you know that I thumbed with because I guess it didn't have the opportunity not being in the neighborhood and my parents not being friends with any of their parents and I think that's I think at that those eight growing up ages and into the teenage it's a it's the friends that you made through your parents as being younger are their friends that you you know really had mostly you mentioned about the show in the Dallas Country Club and yet you had many Jewish manufacturers they are all as far
as I know at that time I but I really don't I mean I don't know if if Malouf I mean if Maalouf and donovan gal bany were in business then I kind of doubt it because they were still around but you know when I was in the manufacturing business and which came later and so I kind of think I don't even know if those two were even I doubt that those two companies were even in existence back then but I have no idea but other manufacturers there were because I wasn't old enough all I knew was right about when did your father's go into the
manufacturing business for me that was I was about it I must have been about seven or eight mm-hmm because that's when I got my sewing machine so yeah and and actually I going back to that when I modeled for lorch's they I did that first I guess several years my dad was there in several markets and so I got a reputation of things called the prissy Missy and some years later I think after my dad was already gone from there and they started making children's clothes and that's what they call the line of pristine missing where with all these manufacturers located what part of the
area the city down around Lamar and on main and L Pacific I think mostly down in that air my dad my dad was in the hole so merchants building in the beginning oh and that's when there was another manufacturer there Rosalie Cohen's dad was also at a factory there I can't think of a name of it but that's when I first got to know her because we used to run up and down the elevators together me that's what was the cross street how close was that from Sanders Oh not too far it was because sandwich was on Lamar and it was a couple ha just
to block off of the motors west-east was the triple under Underpants East it was east of where senators was later on my dad moved from there jump to 706 Main Street which was even which was on the other side of Lamar Street between there in the courthouse and that building was there until just a few years ago I used to go by and that building was still there and it was just I think last year the year before when I went by that spot then that building is finally gone it was a little long narrow building and then we moved out to Lamar South Lamar
and that's when and I my factory was next door to his factory but that was later and you mentioned the jabbers now what was the role of the jumpers in relation to the host owner or the manufacturer well I think most of the jobbers and that was I think at that point then in fact Nathan Levine was also a jobber and and the Aaron Brothers were jobbers and Higginbotham I guess it's funny I could be that made them did the men's things yeah I mean you could go I had sort of been if I could go up and down the streets I could baby then
one and there was a hat bill honors and stuff you know there were word jabbers though Goldberg's millinery man he and that was the other one another family was a milliner's well of course and then there was milliner supply who had been there and still their hardware in there Joe just recently I understand and that was that was that was a historical company and there were others I'm sure I guess don't you know remember all but but yeah um I hope nobody listens to this that I left out now what would about some of the Jewish holidays what were the holidays didn't you celebrate it
well least I guess we celebrated of course Hanukkah and we celebrated Passover and hmm didn't oh poor him yeah that's we had to get dressed up and do that I guess I'm so the major ones that I remember really celebrating in those three holidays I mean my dad and I might have celebrated some others but they weren't they didn't stand out they didn't have as much to offer for kids as it's those three was there any what about Rosh Hashanah Yom Kippur oh well of course yeah we're definitely are we did those but I have to terminate okay you were going to talk about Rosh
Hashanah and Yom Kippur well of course we did that and in fact of course thinking about that you know those were the long holidays with the long sitting in the temple when you were a little kid and of course and I did go very often and friends who belong to share Israel so I get would go over there and leave with them sometime because it was very nice over there you could get up and walk out when you wanted to it no boy you couldn't do that yeah just sit with your parents and zip until they let you go so I thought it was kind
of fun going over there cuz then I got to see everybody and visit with everybody and we could get up go outside and stuff so now we're Saturdays we got Chavez Sabbath itself was there any ceremony well no no not really we went you know to Temple if we went we went on Friday night mostly and you know and then of course I'm into sin he's gone Sunday but we didn't since we were so far we live so far from from any you know anything else being in North Dallas there there was no such thing in North Dallas in those days now you mentioned poor
him what happened on Purim I got to dress up and be Queen Esther and all that sort of stuff you know it no tomboy as I was I wasn't that ever a hazard where is everybody yes I was always coming Esther I'd never worried about Hanukkah did you like Ellen chemical was fun we had Hanukkah I had one of my uncle's was married to a woman who was a Methodist and had never converted or anything and so we had Hanukkah and we had Christmas we had Hanukkah at our house oh and then we went oh and then I went over there and we decorated the
tree and we did all this for Christmas and we had Christmas morning with them and my aunt had a sister who had two daughters who were a little bit younger than me but we were friends we're still friends both their mother and my aunt they're all gone a long time but the two girls are still we're still close and one of those in Houston the other one lives in Plano but we're there we we're not related in any way but we consider one another customers as your obtain your observance changed over the years anyway yeah well of course I guess I through all my years
of growing up and until I was married I guess the same thing applied you know that's the necessarily as I became as a dog a dress-up report time but but then when I had my children and I have two boys then that was different you know then we well then it was fun because then I can make all those costumes for them that had to have rapport I mean and and they were right that was fun I'd you know and I think by that time I was in the manufacturing business and I had access to all these fabrics and everything and so that was one
of my favorite things and if I didn't make him my sample maker made himself they were they were special for that but we you know we still observed and they went to Sunday School and I mean they continued to I guess learn all that I had learned and and and proceeded to do what all that I had done and I think my husband who was from San Antonio Barney but oh I think he was raised sort of the same way I was I mean our observation or observing of holidays were very similar had he been in the manufacturing business earlier on no after we were
married me but married he was with Zales actually and then he went on the road for my father and then he was called back he was a marine and had been in World War two and he was and but he was reserved and he had joined the reserve that was after we were married here it's an Air Force Base and he was called back during Korea and so long he was gone I work for my dad and I continue to work markets I started because why not oh well that's another story I gotta back up a little bit again because when I was 11 my
uncle's when the markets were held at that time in Dallas and in Fort Worth in my hotels and so when I was 11 I was allowed to go with my uncles on the weekends when I wasn't in school and help sell on the weekends and I got to go to Fort Worth because that's where they went they went to Fort Worth in my dad was over here so I get to go to Fort Worth and help them and it was very exciting because they had her they had their own rooms and I got to sleep in the show room you know and I started selling
when I was 11 and I was a pretty good salesperson when I was 13 I was my day was the summer and I was out of school and my dad had to go to New York on a buying trip for fabrics and things and my two uncles were on the road and so I was left in charge of the factory now we had a bookkeeper her name was Stella good who had been with them for years and was a very good friend of mine enemies who was Uncle Sid was my dad's middle brother and uncle George was his baby brother there were three boys they
had two sisters too but they lived in Cleveland and so of course she was there and she had been you know with him all time and she ran the office and bookkeeping okay and so but I was left in charge of the shipping department and anything any customers that came in or called or whatever and so I remember the first when when they all left and there I was in charge I got a telephone call from one customer who wanted to know about what was in stock or this or whatever and and so I I you know I I just said just a moment or
whatever and I ran the still and I said Sal there's a customer on the phone who wants to know all about what's at the stock in this she says well you're the one in charge you tell him that was it I became Charles in Charge ever since so I did I took care of him and I you know and then the next one was easy and one factor that was easy and I ing was fun it was fun getting to be the boss that's how I learned to be bus about what year wasn't it when I was 13 so it was 30 [Music] now you
mentioned about getting married and the Air Force Base on the Air Force Base no no no no no I said that Barney had been a reserve attached to this reserve unit was that was at the Air Force okay yeah but then when he was turned but actually when he was called back during Korea he was sent to Cherry Point North Carolina which was an Air Force Base 34th Mason he was a lieutenant I think at that point but during the course of the oh he was attempt he was a captain at that point I guess cuz he hadn't he well but by the time we
left that base he was a major and in fact the the yes I guess you got the CEO but it wasn't that wasn't the word but the head of that base he was this adjutant and he left he retired and so Barney was left in charge of the base until he was released now when we turn okay when were you married then I was married in 1948 and we're here in Dallas in the Baker hotel will you members of the temple at that time yeah and we were married by rabbi Lefkowitz and that you meant started to mention about as you went along in terms
of tradition in terms of observance and what have you have you said changed over the years and how well it's changed really in the last more so for me I guess in the last fourteen years because I worked my entire life because in 1953 when we came back from Barney's tour of duty during Korea we decided to go in business for ourselves so we started a manufacturing company and I did all the designing and the pattern-making and ran the factory and Barney did the traveling and we were in business 53:53 271 so what if you look leaner 18 years and so I so I didn't
I didn't belong to any organizations much except fashion group which was involved in my career and so we just observed along the same lines that we had always observed and you know and mostly was with the boys and then now you were widowed whew in in 89 and and but but we closed our Factory at in 71 we had we were had growing pains and we had gone with a firm that was supposed to you know help us growing pains and they destroyed us instead so we had to close and Barney was swept up right away by one of the big companies sure you know
just travel and run the showroom here in Dallas we're jumping Bobby got Bobby for us on drew no no no this was a New York company well I things know first and your daily right I asked retired for a year and I was going stir-crazy because I'd like to play games I like to play cards but I was bored with the conversation I had been in business my whole life had been a rounded on my life and and I just you know it just wasn't so and and I was I had a reputation of being selling refrigerators to Eskimos so I had lots of offers
by guys in the mark the come walk come work for me come to work work markets for me and I just hadn't decided who who I wanted to go work for so in the meantime we had very good friends was a sorority sister of mine who married a man from California and whose father had been in the maternity business and and so and he his father passed away and he had run and but I think I think for the fact that at the time their business was and be hit was closed when his father passed away and then but he brought up in it too
like me selling and helping his dad and so he and another man there was a there was a there was a line maternity line of lingerie called Mary Jane and the man who owned that company and Monroe anything was Monroe Lambert they got together at some point and then and I think he wanted to expand from lingerie into clothing and knew that Monroe I had all the experience everything grown up in it too so they joined together and they bought the company from a couple who was retiring and it was called quarry of California and it became the second company of Mary Jane and so
he called us and and he said he needed a showroom he had add he had had for the line of his dad's line he's had a Salesman here but he didn't want to continue with this salesman with this new line so he want to get his own showroom so we did that and so then it was getting time that he was gonna come from the showroom and I was getting all these requests to work for somebody so I said tomorrow said you know my ropes not gonna be able to do this who's gonna set up for him when he said I come in and then
what you know so I called him up and I said you know we've got you the showroom and all of that and but I have been several people then kept trying to get me to come back to work in their showrooms and I thought I'd give you first choice so he said oh yes you know so that was a long another long relationship that started he came good he came he came oh I wouldn't bother that anyway he came and I worked from for you know a couple of markets and at that time in California especially all they made were double tops and bottoms and
then every once in a while he'd come with a dress or two dresses so finally I said man I said you know Monroe you want to explain this line all over this country you aren't gonna do it with this I mean dumb tops and bottoms might be okay for California but and if you want to make dresses you got to make dresses you got you either do or you don't the one or two dresses is not a dress line and I said you're never gonna get anywhere I mean this is not gonna move around the country you gotta be satisfied with that idea so he
said you don't like it you do it so I said okay I'll do it so I said but I've come to California okay so we worked it out that I didn't all the fabric buying for all of them samples here and the duplicates and I did all the designing here and luckily a friend of mine Ellen Brennan had just come back from California she had been working doing children's clothes and the pattern maker and well what started out that I just did the line the first time first of all did the line said the since all the had all the fabric set they're sent out
my designs and sketches the pan all the dimensions for everything and sketches and swatches of the fabric I wanted them in and when I went out I would go out for like two weeks before after the line was completed to to see about the duplicates and having everything done and the first trip out after that I got there and I said this doesn't look like I said the sample makers this doesn't look like my sketches and this doesn't look like my dimensions and they said no no um mr. Monroe said that we had a pattern that looked just that looked just like that so I said no it didn't so I said Monroe you stay out of my business then but like what do you think you look it looks like that is not what I'm doing and so in and it just so happened then when I got back after that Elian had come back to Dallas and she had been a pattern maker and so I said I said the only way I'm gonna solve my problem is get my patterns made here so we used her dining room table and she made all the patterns
new the decides getting swatches she'd make the patterns and then I'd send everything out there and everything that was different and so it used to be Monroe would come in for the markets and you know we go to somewhere and I are in the Mart and I introduce you this is my boss and he would say I'm not so sure whose boss where the markets held at that point in time oh you're well by that there's a lot of in between this Mesa yeah bring us there's a lot didn't that happened well we were in the Merchandise Mart but with our lines and then the
appeal mark was built and at that time in the Merchandise Mart there was associations for the salesman's Association and my husband was president of the Association and so people were contracting to move into the new mark and but they were going to lose control they were not going to have a Salesman association over there to be able to control and they had a little control over their lives with their you know with their manufacturers and then with the building and how they you know and so he a lot of them guys weren't real happy with the way that things were gonna change and so he
held out to the end I mean little by little everybody had to though because that's where it was happening and it was splitting the market and it was you know if we found it better to move over here you know Fort Worth was no longer any more years before they stopped that but the hotels in two places and found out that it was much better to keep it together so we finally went at the very end who was it that was holding out well Barney was holding out and the other you know some of the other men who are concerned about the fact that there
wasn't gonna be association anymore and that they didn't have any you know control of their lives you know more or less there with the mercy of the building then on and so you know but then we all eventually went and now what percentage at that point in time and give me a idea of the era we're Jewish people involved in that industry oh I would say the great ever Santa I would say the Brady percent now there by the time we hit them the apparel mark there were a lot of non-jewish men becoming salesmen and women up until that point there were very few although
there were some and there was some in the in the Merchandise Mart because one of our neighbors was Syrian and I had to I learned how to make Kibby so so there were there were some but there but they were you know there were a lot more of course of the apparel mark was bigger and he grew faster and more lines were developed you know the whole industry grew all over the country you know what was the change as far as the local manufacturers and representatives coming in from other manufacturers and the parts of the nation I don't think it I don't think it wasn't
change I mean it was a change in that you had more competition I guess but you know there's one thing about the rag business you go in and out of business five times a year I mean you can be the best line in the country and if the next line is done any good you can be at the bottom of the heap and be the worst line in the country you know so you're always against that competition of other people I mean if you've got the right thing it doesn't matter where you are or how many other people there are if you've got the right
thing they're gonna come to you and you're gonna sell them you know you know when I went into maternity and and I was even the territory and when well I was doing what I was doing the line I was also selling here and I I was also in charge of the territory but and that went on for I know I'm doing it and that went on for quite a few years because I was with them as long as I was in the manufacturing business myself but that went on well I guess for a few years until I became the designer and said well I guess
there wasn't too many years but he three or four years by the time you know and then my theory was when I started to work for them was that why should she look any different just because she was pregnant and so I mean I may hadn't been making junior dresses in sportswear so I did the same thing again I made the same kind of clothes I had made because most of the girls were juniors that you know there are the junior types they were young and Maeby's young and except that I just adapted them for the the Tubby's and nobody else had ever made coordinated
sportswear ever in Maternity in fact when they went little I did the first line with all the coordinated sportswear unit I had to go out there and I had to sit Monroe and Carroll and his wife was also in the building and traveled she was also salesman and I had to teach them how to settle coordinated sportswear because they had no idea I mean I changed their line completely and it became it became the biggest maternity line in the country when I go in I and so I had this territory and and he said well guess salesman you know and well once the line was
done then I was free to be the salesperson so I just got on the telephone and I was one of the first telemarketers to I started you know they they come that call up and make appointments and then I would the line would have a line sheet I would make sketches by a little and she said what's it's old garment looked like and I would send those out to people who were not coming to market and but but and then if they came to market then I got I'd give them a copy of that so that they could see when they got home what they
had ordered and lots of stories on this anyway if when I go into market after this line got going a couple years if I had less than 200 appointments on that board there was something wrong and I had gotten into the point where people who couldn't come to market I would send the sketches and they would say it looks good to be here's $2,000 $5,000 whatever it is this is what I want to spend you write the order and I did a great deal of that I never traveled I had and and after I was no longer doing mine I'm going back I designed the
line for quite a few years but then my mother passed away because it enabled me to be able to go out there for two weeks or whenever our three weeks whenever I needed to I can believe and my mother was available because my boys were young and my mother passed away in 74 so I just you know I couldn't do it anymore and so my mom said okay then you know you take oh I'm not only gonna get you take you at the territory that you've been doing which was the big territory but I'm gonna give you so in Seoul's territory because he isn't doing
anything and he's travelling so so I had Texas Oklahoma Arkansas MIT Mississippi weren't you my mother that in 74 so buzzfeed 75 7 states to put on a second tape I guess it is December the 9th and this is the second of our series of taping I'm going to go back and I'm going to see if it's okay last time we were talking about our year top the holidays I went to tell us you talked about being dressed up for porn would you tell us a little more about that well I guess I was I was born with a little Pam and me love doing
costumes I guess I haven't grown up around all the clothing and the manufacturing and the designing that was sort of in my blood and of course doing the costumes of any kind was was fun and I'm still doing the help that comes later but still doing a lot of that but so for him was one of my favorites because I can you know have a costume and of course it was very advantageous that my father was in the manufacturing business and I could go down and pick out my fabrics and the ladies would make me buy castings because with school and everything else I didn't
really have time to make those costumes oh so but that was a fun that was that was one of my special holidays because I like the dressing up how about Hanukkah what Michael was was was great because I not only got to celebrate Hanukkah but I also which we had at my house and of course that was always good because of Patrick after all it thought at those young ages the presents were very exciting you know to have Hanukkah and being able to celebrate and like the candles every night a gift of some sort but and then I was very unlucky I think because I
got to to experience the other side as well because I had an aunt who was not Jewish and we also celebrated Christmas with her and I got to decorate the tree and that sort of thing which I did wouldn't have gotten to do otherwise and that was exciting because I got presents again till then and in fact I have to tell you the story I wanted a bicycle and and so I think my folks said well I didn't think they could get me one you know it was like kukuku they weren't gonna get me a bicycle so we're driving in the car one day and
my folks sometimes spoke in Yiddish and especially when they didn't want me to understand what they were saying and so we're driving in the car and they're talking up there whatever they were talking about and all of a sudden I hear I said oh well so how do I get him been winning I advise it but then Christmas came and we're my uncles and we're you know in their basements where they had pigs in and they had the Christmas tree and all of that and where everybody's opening that practice packages and all and all of a sudden here comes my uncle rolling in to the
room on my bicycle which was very exciting okay you talked about being a member of temple manual have you continued where's your affiliation how was it well I was a member of Temple emanu-el up until years and it was through some circumstances we left there and my husband was ill at the time and so we had we had some friends at Temple Shaw when they had been encouraging us to come in and join their because it was just a few blocks away from where we live and it was a long ride down to Temple and the fact that we both worked and it was kind
of hard on Friday nights to come home from work and go all that way and so we had more opportunity they gonna find our services we're getting closer so we were try still talking about it after we left but you know Barney was ill and unfortunately worse than me that's the way and so after after he was gone I I had been participating in some things that solo cello with my friend because they did some shows and there was any where's included show and I I was a dancer which I never mentioned earlier but I grew up as a dancer as well because my friend
link he was very very very student dancer and she danced didn't in the summer musicals and all of that so and we took lessons together a lot of times and so the dancing was something I love to do and Barney and Barney was a wonderful dancer and we danced we we did everything we danced everything there was and so they were doing a show and I thought well I shouldn't I really shouldn't do this cuz he had passed away and they building the show was in the fall and I had joined the temple but ready you know as much as you all danced and he
loved dancing he would be happy if you were dancing so I decided okay I would do that show which I did and it was fun and we've been doing shows which I have been involved in ever since but the more shows we did the more I also became involved in the costume and so I we did several shows and I did all the costumes and that came about because I which we haven't talked about before but I had a connection for many years with the University was Miss North University of North Texas and so I could get and they have a large supply of costumers
in a costume department and I had access to that so I had today I still do that I can still go and get whatever I need from them or and so I then became not only in the shows I'm limited I dance but I can't say I don't have any my father didn't ever tell you about my violin playing I did before well I had no ear for music as I guess I said before when we talked about my playing and so I can see him up in the chorus when with the group is singing but you don't want to hear me sing by myself
so I would do all the dancing and my different costumes and skits if there were such but should be done in fact that is that is kind of that's what I was doing when I met without that are we re met an old friend Mort Prager and we were doing one of the shows and our friends and our friends Rita and Marvin Rubenstein had called me and said we want to take you out to the club Wednesday night for dinner and we're going to ask more prayer to go along with us and I said oh how nice I have not seen him in 40 years
since college really and so I said but I can't go this Wednesday because we're in the last week before the show and we're rehearsing every night so I'd have to wait at it though a week later the show was coming up this next weekend but I can't get this week so we made the date roads later but then I get a call for more who says you mean you can't go out any night to dinner I said no because we rehearse every night and I said well maybe Sunday night I have two rehearsals my skip rehearsal is at 6:00 but my dance rehearsal is not
until 9:00 and the skin is very short so I might be through fast enough that I know so he said okay I'll be watching a game and you call me when you get through the skin well watching a game is something he really did and still does do but anyway so I did call and we went out and kind of a quick dinner not too far from so I could get back to temple great for sure by 9:00 and sort of reminisce about the old times and happened to our lives in between and that was our first date and more tells the story now you
know we did have a date when we were in college one day he said and this was our second date which was 45 years later anyway that's that as I say that that's the Shabet thing and the my connection with with acting and show business and fast iranian and which is still you know that's something I like to do now because since I don't do the designing anymore I don't manufacture anymore and I don't draw pictures for paper dolls anymore as I did a little kid it gives me that outlet that I like doing are you still active in Temple Shalom oh yes yes I
am very active in Temple Shalom I have been happy ever since I joined practically but I had been president of the sisterhood at one point I handled a lot of other offices too but I would read them the sisterhood and I have been actually well four years ago five six years ago I have been working in the our gift shop and we wanted to redecorate it and I was made manager of the gift shop which was a great opportunity because I'm also a frustrated architect I you know I did the plans for our home we lived in for 30-some odd years it did decorated several
showrooms during a period of meant a long period of my time in business and I did we just in our home we are now in the high-rise condo we gotta did and I read that did the plans for that so I redid the shop and Lucia and I was manager for two years and that's our period of that jerk could be and so then for two years I didn't I worked on the shop did things but I do what the manager when did you join I joined in in 89 more Barney died in April of 89 and I joined again and anyway so I'm back
again now managing the gift shop which is good because I like the selling and I like that as the cognition changed over the years service has changed in any way do you see any changes in the way they do things well I yes of course now we have Cantor who is a great catcher and in fact this past Saturday night Sunday night we did a great effective events celebrating his Bar Mitzvah here at Temple Shalom and it was a roast and toast a necklace fun and also he has not you know I've seen changes in there that we we do a lot more Hebrew in
our singing and prayer prayers and I don't read Hebrew but thank the Lord for transliteration because it enables me to keep up and and of course there's been changes because of the change of rabbis since I've been there do you see more tolerance and I learned I'm gonna keep wrote yes lots of cute though and not and yeah some Italian not as not everyone but when it is appropriate but not everyone but but keep ah yes yes and we sell lots of those in the shop do we have a very great shop it's the best shop in the city and I think we have the
reputation for being the best chef listen let's talk about Jewish organizations I'm certain there's calm traditions I just get that I learned about the Jewish organizations over the years that you've been affiliated with well I really have not been very much because working I always belong to the sisterhood and I always belong because I'm a person who whatever I belong to I am active in and with working and small children and and flying because I am a pilot or was a pilot there just I just did that time for organizations unrelated to what I was doing but I have been very active in the fashion
group when I first joined to get was called fashion arts and it was women of in the fashion business and we were very active and promoting our business and and we started in 1962 we had the opportunity to start a museum in in having Lawrence Marcus on one of our boards and working with him and the idea of a museum because we had been given the tot new collection every year there was a cup an award of cotton collection and this had been given to us and that was the start of our museum and because we worked with Lawrence he said that they had all
of caring marcus Neiman's clothes in a warehouse somewhere I can take this treat but anyway they're in a warehouse and that they would give us all of those clothes as a basis also for our museum it was great and so in 1962 I was president of fashion arts at the time and in 1962 we had a gala event fundraiser at the Merchandise Mart and Lawrence and I I guess announced the start of this museum and what was in it and it was very exciting and I remember all the years as we were growing all of our members how we whenever we would of course would
put out feelers for for clothes and there were many women who had marvelous paternal clothes and we would give them to us and I remember we get together and we sit among the clothes and repair so and the the apparel mark gave us space we would think they gave us space and fortunately they gave us place on the first tour and so we were it was it was very good because at that time we had during this period we had mean from the Merchandise Mart into the apparel market and has our museum became big enough to really be a museum then they gave us this
space on the first floor just to house it we build cabinets double it and and we would have sometimes we could use some of the Mormont's and shows some were too fragile this is still the case over the years I think there's a group of them that are set aside at this point that can be used to be modeled but most of the things are too precious and to delicately and it's that was a that was a long growth because when this is became really really busy and thank God in our in our industry the apparel Mart was space was in demand so they had
to take us away from the first floor and they gave us some space upstairs on one of the upper floors which was okay and we were thrown in there but it really we had no opportunity we had you could do a little showing in Windows downstairs in the lobby area but it really wasn't satisfactory and we needed bigger space and then it came to the time that they needed that space as well so we went out looking for place and we talked to the museum within the city and they were not interested in fashion so at the same time I was educated at Oh in
the meantime this fashion group there was a national or we were local but this was a nation organization of fashion group we work fashion arts in this fashion group was in the International Organization we should say and they heard about us and they wanted us to join them but they had restrictions you had to be in management and we had a lot of models in Harvard and so we said only we will only join and become fashion group if you take models and which of course they did we just have some wonderful women Network in capacity and one being Kim Dawson so now we were
Fashion Group well one of the things and I became education type and treasurer and other things but I became education children for them at a time in which we were having a problem with students coming out of our universities in the state to try to go to work in our industry and they were not trainable they were only teachable because they were being taught from a book none of the professor of the teachers they had in any of these schools that has to have a fashion department had ever been the business so our thought was and we went around to the different ones in talking
about that we needed to be able to either teach the teachers or teach the students in you know special courses are visiting professors or however you want to handle it but we were just unable to use most of the students that came from these schools and at the same time we were having to move the museum and also at the same time among the schools it was the University of North Texas they have a new head of art department to me and Ed Mattel and so I went to him and I was telling him in the of the situation with the museum and also with
the school because it fell under him and he was very young ho about having both so Louis Watson who was a alumni of North Texas Kim Dawson ed Mattel and myself went to the president of the university who at that time was general one whom I had gone to school with at the University of Texas he had been a cheerleader there and I had been very effective in so I had known him very well and we told him what we wanted to do and and told him what he wanted to do and jitter said that's fine he says that Jackie is going to take you
10 years to get this going and I said because we have no money and fashion group was going to do all the benefits and off to raise the money which we did for 10 years we supported this the kim dawson already have a model dementia patient see oh yeah oh yeah and so I said oh no Jim the fashion industry burns much faster than me he says yes but academia doesn't and he was right because it was 10 years later an ED Mattel and I went to Austin to the legislature to get the first money that was allocated for this department in this museum and
in the meantime we had wonderful benefits with raise lots of money the museum grew it grew them approval of a campus it got a building that part of the building after a while we had we even had a curator and it's still there it has now moved again into a building and it is awesome I go in there and it's like I get goose pimples because it's a marvelous huge like a warehouse room climatized to save up for clothes double stacks of all these wonderful post going back into the way into the eighteen hundred's and we have a collection a special collection which was given
to us but we had we had a woman who was born in Texas and lived in France should experience Claudia is better I can't think of her last name I know but she was married to of calendars and she had wonderful clothes I mean war will be the most expensive Couture clothes and fabulous things and and she would every year give us her clothes because she was in a world of when you don't wear the same thing again over the next year and so this collection became fast in fact we had a there was a showing just up her things and SMU The Meadows a
couple of years ago the we did a show we now have a curator Myra Walker who is fabulous and we had we not only have such a wonderful collection but we exchange with the Metropolitan because they borrow from this sometimes for shows and at one point they're curator passed away and he had a friend Mira's and the university gave her leave because they asked for her to come until they could find a new curator to come up there for a year which she did and I was up in New York at the shows and she would she did a fabulous show were there any youth
Jewish youth organizations and you were involved with as you know because we didn't really have a lot of that I mean there wasn't that much ACA anyway being involved with this museum has been exciting and we've even I have to say that we have an even more exciting in that excitement about it because 1900 Maine is well we now have a a show of a display room at this point but the University of North Texas has bought the old Titus building and it is going to be renovated and we are going to have the park that's the windows that go from Maine to helm around
that's our section and hopefully it's to raise the funds they need to do all this and then we hope to be on the fifth floor which will then be climatized and for the for the garments to move the entire museum into that building so it will be housed here and will be able to be used by designers and and it's a great place people I mean historical addition to our city what does the cross street from 1909 what is sleev close to building is that close to Titus now it is tension it is time how do you know we got the the Elm Street side
they made condominiums or something but them but the Main Street side of that building I've been as far as up it's a fifth floor there's it's nothing it's Thank You Lizzie and there has been a school there though there is a community school is in the building right now of I'm not sure what all the schools that use it but there may be the you okay continue please well I guess that's that's the most exciting thing to this day is the fact that and they have a larger as I said in what Texas is now having a campaign for for funds to to raise the
money to complete the plans for this building and in the meantime iris doing you know small shows in this in this area which is the lobby of the school right now and I think it's on a couple of three floors is this school and I think it's used by the community colleges earth El Centro has its own building but no this is other these are you know have you been involved okay have you been involved in any other cultural or secular groups through the years that you haven't mentioned and what were their activities were you involved in denied birth in any way belong to some
of the others now that I've retired and I didn't blog to anything I was working between what I was doing with North Texas and yeah I used to tell how early the president of the University who who came there after jitter left and and Mattel had said we're going out to dinner one night because you have to tell it al and bring him up to date to where we are and what we're doing and get him on board so we did this and so between and I'm a sardar on a board that was formed for the for the college because of course all of this
made the education part the design department just flourish you know they they students came and it was a great great department and we did a lot of the kids came to our manufacturers and and you know to get to work the furnace my apprentice thing yeah producing and it was a great combination and it helped it helped the school grow and it helps the it helped all of us get students and and many of our T of our women designers and whatever when the long to fashion group did those horses up there for them to help and so it was really between my own business
and and my involvement there as I said I used to tell how early I was orange and white on one side and green oh I don't make other side because my loyalties were in two places which were the University of Texas in Austin and the University of North Texas in Denton what about your family structure over the years he's the only child and then your grandparents have ever lived with you and some uncles in the extended family yes I'm an only child I was an only child my father I think I mentioned this was before my father wanted a boy and he only got a
girl who had to be boy and the girl and I was gladly because I like doing all those things that boys did as well as as the girl things and I had my father and his brothers bought property on Midway Road just doesn't block a Midway Road it runs didn't West in Dallas and the rest of it is all north in the south and they bought this land there I think I've mentioned this before and so we all live together which was great and I had cousins my my there was my dad and mother and myself in one house the next house was my uncle
Sid and my aunt Amy who was the one who had the Christmas trees and and then my uncle George was in the next house and my aunt Phyllis and they had two children Joyce and Joel who are I called them my little sister and brother because living so close we were it was like and they were younger of course and I saw this it was like if you didn't like what was having what was for dinner at your house you've just shopped around and one of the other houses till you found what you wanted to eat they did it and I did it and it
was fun and but also when they first built there behind my uncle George's house they built a small little bungalow for my for their parents my grandparents my dad's mother and they moved here and lived they had been living in Cleveland though because my the three boys had two sisters both who lived in Cleveland and the man my grandparents had lived there with them and that lemonade bottle the prepping built the house they wanted to come here which they did and they stayed for a while and then I don't know why they went back to Cleveland you know I was in an age where that
just wasn't something I was if I heard about the reason why or whatever it didn't listen didn't sink in I just knew that they went it was nice while they were here and and then of course we went to Cleveland every summer anyway does my father wanted to meet him my father was very very very family-oriented and he kept in touch with all sorts of relatives in fact we have a he had a cousin who was in the war also my dad and he came out with I guess shell shop or something and he was in a home in New York City and he had
a daughter but his wife had died and because of his condition he wasn't able to take care of her so she was put in a convent and she became a nun and so my dad kept in touch with her and so when he and I would go to New York on business to buy fabrics Oh because well in my web part I got to go back a little bit when Barney the time in front yeah when time for for news well this 50/50 really different this was this was in the 50s Korea when born was called back in service when we came back home in
53 we went in business for ourselves that's when we started our company which was called the doll manufacturing company and the label was called Jackie of Dallas and so at that then my my dad and the brothers were still in their business and we were next door to them we had bought a building next door to them on South Lamar and so when it came time you know buying fabrics and that sort of thing I would my dad and I went to New York together and one of our trips well okay go back to the pitocin so she would come you know to be with
us in the shoulder and she was a fun lady and of course in those days she had to have a escort and a young woman a young girl from the convent wouldn't bring her to us and she would stay with us for the day you know and in in the show room and she was so much fun you know customers would come in and she'd get up and and she bought you this is the latest in fashion cooker she was in her home regalia studies they still wore them all the time and so we kept in touch with her through the years and some years
later and of course every time I went up I would see her and I kept in touch and some years that she always wanted to come to Texas so some years later Barney and I sent her a ticket to come to Dallas and visit us and she really having had a great time she came I think it was after my dad the way they were in my remember had that that's true and we had friends across the street from us while we lived on Bravo that were Catholic and so they would she would go to Mass with them every morning and evenings and then we
we took her up to the lay with us the boat in fact she fell in one point and but she she said it was one of the the best time she's had in her life you know visiting with us and we just had a really good time with her and I was so glad that we had been able to do that because she later took ill and passed away you mentioned you had been a pilot as well among yes well when we came back from the service Barney Barney had had we had some friend friend in San Antonio who had a plane his best friend
who was like and he'd been up in his plane and in other planes and he had always had the bug I mean to learn to pilot but never had had the opportunity and so when we came back and business he decided and after he had been attached to the air force and had been you know flying some of guys there he decided he really wanted to learn to fly and I was I'm a person who if you can do it I can do it and I'll try to do it better so we started taking lessons and we did nice and I soloed in seven hours
which was very rare for a woman and loved flying it was it was my escape it was we we traveled you know every weekend we would go and we would put kids were maybe a little I had in my in my logbook changing diapers at 8,000 feet or something we would put the baby in the back seat and in the back and still and we would take turns piloting and then one would be to navigate and we did a lot of traveling that way image we would Barney was head of the fashioned organization the salesman's he was president of the salesman's organization and so they
had they had their meetings once a year like in Florida and we would fly there and sometimes in California so we flew around the country to the area to Cleveland and Chicago to visit you know family and so forth and but we were we never we were what you well we've had a say there are no there are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old boats so if the weather was not just saw him and we did not buy instrument went that's lessons but we chose not to fly in the bad weather we would get stuffed places you know we
would and not be able to go when we had planned to go so one of my stories about that is that when our son Harry was like four years old we were going to San Antonio to fly to San Antonio where the family was where Barney's family lived for the Christmas holidays and we went in it the weather was bad and we chose not tried to make the flight so we had to go in the car now this child was now is five years old and he'd been flying since I was changing those diapers at you know and 8,000 feet and so we're driving in
the car and he's lying there with his head in my lap and his feet and in Barney's lap and he comes up he says you know and that's the question he's waiting because we were wrapped two walks ahead she I guess by this time how are we going to get to San Antonio if we don't go in this time so we decided that we had missed something in his education he thought he had only flown out of town he didn't know the roads went from city to city he only knew that you flew from city to city anyway so we that was one of the
examples we once stayed for days extra in Tampa Florida because we went down from for gas and weather was between here and there and we just stayed there and we had shipped our clothes because we had been to this convention we had shipped our clothes most of them back by FedEx or something and so we didn't and it was we were going to winter because this was in over the Christmas holidays and so we were going to winter so we sent the summer clothes we had used in in Florida back you know in the in the suitcases or trunk or whatever it was we sent
and even we had nothing but heavy clothes so we had to go to Target or wherever we went to Walmart or if it was and buy some summer clothes so that we could survive for the four days but now was your mother also involved No what did she do my mother was a wonderful housewife and cook and mother and chauffeur and all the things that mothers usually do she also liked to play golf she did that my mother did not so maybe buttons but my mother did not so and she didn't need to solve this once I was five or six or seven I was
thumping and so she didn't ever need to son also that she had the factory where people you know some for her but and she some she you know she belonged to organizations she did that and I don't remember which ones all together but I know she did several and she played you know cards and and and golf as I said and in fact in fact she cooked so when she was really good cook and made wonderful soups and of course I never had much time to do that well she she kept us in soup she was she'd make stew before her she makes food for
us so she'd bring me soup at one point in time I had to say mother my freezer is so full of soup I can't put anything else didn't don't make any more soup right now she was so afraid we wouldn't have soup and as a result I never learned how to make soup I think we could make chicken soup but that's about the extent of it what about intermarriages you mentioned that you know woman that was not Jewish what was everyone like as far as their favor home was research was I guess like ours you know not much much different my hand was a Methodist
since she did dog to church and she had a sister who also whose husband died at a really young age and she had two girls and they came to live with my handle and of course they're all gone but the two girls and I are still very close I consider them cousins even though we had no relationship and one was in no Plano now in Dallas and the other one is in Houston and then the older one and she and I guess I've been closer than the younger one but and she has she is very the huge minded I guess she's sort of been the
Jewish side of their family a lot of her friends are and she although you know later will observe the holidays or anything like that but she's very involved with the Jewish community and friends and things like that and whenever I go there with all and all my sorority sisters get together to have lunch or something have like reunions reunions and she comes you know and so she knows I'm a family and they were very fortunate when they they lived in Houston all these years and about a year and a half two years ago they moved to Galveston and they one of the historical houses which
and then they have a beach house and she's always saying come down and visit us and you all could stay in the beach house and all that well when the catastrophe hit Galveston they came they went first went to Houston some friends and then they came here to the sisters when that when the Houston situations not bad and they were so fortunate that neither she said she was sure they were going to lose the beach house but they happened to be I guess in a around the corner of where the wind came or something because neither their home nor the beach house was destroyed so
they were very fortunate I was happy for that for them you know because great they're a great couple and we're very close I'm very close talking about family I'm very close with all my cousins I have because my father went took us to Cleveland every summer I got to know all my first second third fourth fifth cousins you know there were less of them in Cleveland talk to this before but what one one point I was there for the 4th of July and my first cousins daughter and I went to all the other side that there on my father's side actually actually they're all the
same because my mother and father were very distant very distant cousins and so my my father's mother's maiden name was ball mail and my mother's maiden name was Romeo so there's a there was a large connection there they went to fight way back anyway so we went to all the parties that there was one family that branches the family the Googlers and they had six kids and they had a big fourth of July thing at one of them owned us a little ranch dancing outside of Cleveland and every year they'd have these big parties fourth of July and so we we went to that particular
fair and when we got back she said she said do you know I kept red we saw a hundred cousins today I probably did there were that many were there any other in two marriages of the family anyway you know it was that it was not an issue with us it's I just you know that's why I don't have problems with any of this I never really had problems in school I never really felt that I was distributing it even when in makalah in high school and my father would not let me date anybody that was a choice he was very strict about that and
as a result I never really ran with any of the other kids in school but anyway and actually the women especially you know they had their little groups they'd be one another from churches and whatever else but after some years ago they started lassis a lama group here in Dallas and and which and I went to very often I haven't in the last few years because I had something else that I do in the day they meet and I but when I came back the first time you know you would have thought I was a like you know the long-lost buddy they were all so
happy that I had come you know that it was interesting that since there were only many if maybe ten of us in high school how about describing the Jewish community through the years from when you re very young and do some timeframes how do you describe the Jew Dallas Jewish community in your situation are a weird in relief as to where people are socially and how they interact what about the difference of the kids that were going to Temple I suppose the kids in Sharon Israel it was it's the parrot or Hebrew education with the Hebrew school of Jewish education - well I was I
was kind of on the outside looking in and so to speak because I lived in North Dallas and my visits to the Jewish community in South Dallas were as I said before weekends and holidays so that's the only you know although you know I often because I was in Holland Park schools sometimes my holidays were slightly different from and I remember being out of school and going too far as time for instance with someone you know when they were still in classes and I would go visit you know and of course they're you know most of Jewish populations children were in forest high school because
that for those of us for you that we're out in the boonies but I don't know I I guess because of that my experience was mostly social would say and of course we had temple dances which was the big gathering we didn't have any places in those days where kids you know clubs or whatever so the temple dances were the big gathering and not only the reformed kids came but all the other kids came to it was it was the highlight of social events and I'm sure that they don't remember much going to country club we didn't ever belong to that Club you still have
never known you know who don't something or invite us I it's a funny thing I had never experienced any and maybe it's because it gives it new but I know I knew a lot of kids whose parents before and yet I never you know it sooner never entered into any song I don't know I just never had of I have never been a person who had any kind of feeling that I was discriminated against it by school because I was Jewish I never felt anti-semitism I'm very fortunate I know lots have it never it never has crossed my life I know it has affected perhaps
it was interesting it the only time that it affected my life I must admit was when I ran for sweetheart at the University of Texas and I was very happy and at that point and Jewish as never it is back it didn't I didn't think oh well you'll never make it don't do it I did it because I had so many friends on the campus and they you would vote and then there were like big ten I found out afterwards that I missed the big 10 three or four books and I also found out that the president you put poster on cents dress you put
the bad things out of your mind dan Straus attorney made the fraternity boys whatever his threat was they were not allowed and so I missed me and that's the only time I have ever in my life that didn't did he tell the Sammy's they were not allowed there was someone telling him to say that when he was present because his girlfriend because she wasn't funny and I guess I was a diva he and he did that's the only discrimination I've ever felt I'm out of tape okay so yeah I see you brought some splat books and we'd like very much for you to service books
so let's bring these yeah we're going that word at the scrapbooks I'm attitude delighted that you've got your scrapbooks with you and if you'll hold that up and then you can describe some of the things this was my life at the University of Texas I had fabulous college years and of course our famed Tower and then as a freshman I had joined a sorority that Delta Phi Epsilon and they had put me up for this race the it was a varsity and a carnival every year and it was called varsity carnival and this tie was put up for varsity Carnival Queen and we each had
a booth and our booth was the gay garter girls which I was okay go ahead you're talking about the day you are this is a gay garter girls and that was our booth and what they did was they bought a ticket and then the girls would put their legs up and they had to throw the garters onto the legs and that's me right there go ahead now toast you again thank you where are you again please where am I yo again Oh every year the university has a carnival called are you in front yes oh I'm right here okay right there that's fine okay let
me tell you the problem yes sir would it be bestest go ahead no don't take it right now if if I don't have to have me in it good picture go ahead okay good you want me to do this again no go ahead you're brilliant Oh which one I am is that what yes okay this was our booth it was called the game yarder girls and what the girls were doing with six their legs up in the air and they threw garters and and this is me right here in the front okay let's go to the night named sweetheart nominees because this was still during
the war and there were many soldiers in the camps around and so this I was among the ones who were nominated it was the second infantry of that camp Swift and this was in April of 1944 also every year at the University in the spring they had the ten most beautiful girls were nominated by a movie star and you sent pictures pictures were sent and and I guess little BIOS about the people and so Tyrone Power picked the ten most beautiful girls at the University of Texas there were approximately 250 entries to this and we were the ten and this one is me the also
in the May of that year Santa signified presented the eighth annual time staggers on which was a show that was put on and of course I loved being shows and doing that sort of thing and so this was the program from the show and this was the show and the pictures that we saw before was taken of us because during the course of this show the ten most beautiful girls were all on the stage and were identified the next thing speech or elocution from a lady named mrs. Woodrow and there was a young man yeah another a boy who also took from her his name was Tommy the under grip and he and I were the same age and we were put together and all of the special recitals I guess you'd call them that mrs.
Woodrow had for us and somewhere along the way someone sent my photograph to Warner Brothers and I got this letter from them one wanting me to come to possibly take a screen test to come to California and I guess it was after the 10 most beautiful pinyon and through mrs. Woodrow that I had this somehow she was involved so I had this acting experience oh I had this was a letter from the student publications you have been selected as a blue bonnet Bell nominee for the 1945 cactus [Applause] surely because I like performing and so we had a show coming up we did Hannah gobbler and I'm not sure who then decided to do a show and they called it Stefan hi and this was the group of people that were in the show this was obviously at what are the rehearsals or the dress rehearsal or after the show or whatever but that's me right there
thanks to that cute little sailor and there's my friend linky who we've talked about in the past and many other close friends from Dallas were in the show a ducky bernburg she was ducky Erin at that point and Rollo Hermann and Buddy Rosen and there are others here but I can't do all of them I can't decide who all of a bar so that was from that show which was great it said stepping high makes the gi's glad he came to Texas and that Brandt then if there's a little twerp in here in this article says that blonde on the front line makes me glad
I came to Texas exclaimed one Yankee soldier and we I think I was the only blonde so that had to be me and this is what this was our dance these were we were dancers and this was the group of dancers and that is me on that end I was always on the end of the dancers even when I was a little girl or any other lineup of people that you would see because I was always the shortest the smallest so I always got on the end of our numbers and see I'm on the end again as you notice I'm the smallest one down here
and that's my friend linky again who was really a good dancer also okay oh this this and everybody autographed it this has lots of nice words as a sweetheart a Phi Delta Epsilon to represent our fraternity at the army/navy dance here to be held on February the 24th and this came from Galveston Texas this was the the fraternity at the medical medical school this was February say what year but it had to be 40 probably 44 oh it's 45 February 45 there it is and this was the fraternity and at the Medical School in Galveston what's given by medical students and sweetheart was to be
named and these were the six girls who ran and this one is me I always seem to be running for something for the being sweethearts out that was 11 enter the race for the 1945 sweetheart at the University of Texas and it was the same number filed in last year's time yes and I was one of those thirty minutes these are the eleven girls who ran and this one of course is be a bunch of really pretty girls and great girls in the interim I was tapped for orange jackets orange jacket was an honorary Association of women on the campus who were very active on
the campus and you it was a very big honor to become an orange jacket and Dallas girls threw over several of us from Dallas who were were picked and that was a very special to be an orange jacket vonabell pictured in the 1945 cactus eight girls were chosen to be bubonic bells these eight and the four of us were from Dallas and and Barnes and I went to Highland Park together we were friends Jimmy it said your students on the recommendation of mr. Clayton Lakeway president of the Student Association I am appointing you as student representative on the campus Financial drives committee of which the College of Business Administration is chairman the head of that was the chairman I hope very much that you will be willing to serve on this committee that was a nice honor Assemblywoman on the for the University student body Congress I guess you'd call it student government and there were nine under the assembly races and I was the only girl in this group oh no it's this was another thing this was this was the camp Swift paper vortexes Kuwait's enter the race for second
divisions football queen I don't know how I got nominated to this but there I was and men will decide which girl is to wear the crown and these are the four of us Queens in Waiting these were the other four girls and these people were elected from the different schools there's more here wait and I was elected from the business school there were two of us elected from the business school Wayne Price and myself these two the election in the meantime going back to camp Swift it seems that I won and became the queen of the camp Swift and so this is dice the the
caption under my picture was a pretty girl is like a melody and I thought that was very nice this was exciting it should be picked for that oh I missing a picture of us the falling out but this was the gown I wore and I was getting this was there the gala dance was here tonight to be crown to crown the grid on Queen and that was my crown which was roses and unfortunately we seem to have lost a picture somewhere announcing the new presidents of the sororities fraternities and I was then elected president of Delta Phi Epsilon my sorority this was and they have
round up in the spring and they have a parade and this was a parade of the orange jackets were riding in in the car you know in the parade and that was that's me right there the university they had say selected the ten most beautiful girls on the campus and this particular year Zachary Scott was the one who did the picking and I was one of the ten this was a telegram that came to me announcing congratulations accurate shots that selected you one of the big ten to be here for pictures Monday morning so that for that okay and these were the ten most beautiful
girls at that particular year and as you notice I am on the end because I am again always the shortest Tigers on which is a show and the ten most beautiful girls were being presented at and this only to do it this was the second time I was the ten most beautiful girls we did one before and this is against our Sam staggers on and this one was my costume and picture for this particular one two years this was on the front page of the Dallas Morning News on October 1st no wait oh no an April 11th no that's not the date that's it wasn't
1885 that's for sure I'm not sure what the day this one was but April 1946 and it was an article on the front page and then seeing the ten most beautiful that I was one from doubt okay this was a letter from the board of directors of the University Texas Veterans Memorial Scholarship Fund has elected you as a member of the steering committee which is being composed of campus leaders that was a very nice honor also to be on that committee oh this was just a letter of from the Student Association commending me for my service and as a business administration Assemblywoman month they said
the money then it now says women but they said men and for 45:46 okay now for reelection this was in October 46 and so all the candidates were there and here again for the assembly points and the business administration were always men except for me and I had won again and was reelected oh yes Business Administration students there were seven of us who ran for that year six guys and me and I was reelected Norman Stockman was from Tyler and he was an another Jewish boy who was running and this was my advertising for passing out to everybody to reelect me for this this was
the same year that Barefoot Sanders ran for president of the student body and unfortunately he passed away recently but we always kind of kidded one another over the years because I remember having to walk on he had bare feet all over the sidewalks of the campus that was his advertising and I always chatted him about that even in recent years about how oh we all had to walk on his feet this was just more about that in the Daily Texan member of 46 and I was selected girl of the week it says now starting her second term as Assemblywoman from the College of Business Administration
jakela sewer commands a prominent place in the university's political and Student Government seen all this while holding several 40 acres beauty titles Jackie is continuing her work of last year on the Assembly Finance Committee and has been appointed to the Health Committee she is president of Delta Phi Epsilon is an orange jacket and is a member of for forensic Oh which was a speech Society and Beta Beta Alpha they update I guess the population was growing in the university so this year they had 25 most beautiful girls and I was one of those this was a my third year and this capacity which was very
nice on her and I think they finally I think they left it at 25 I can't remember they elected 25 or then from the 25 they they must have picked 210 and I was one of the 25 but did not get picked that here as one of the ten oh this was very nice this was an invitation to attend the inaugural reception can tender to the Honorable view for Jester governor of Texas and Honorable Allen shivers lieutenant governor of Texas which was a nice honor to be invited to that I guess from student government that we were invited I don't farewell to the University when
I graduated was that I announced my engagement to Barnard Irving Bedok from San Antonio and this was in The Daily Texan paper announcing that there we go this is in 1953 after we returned from Barney having been recalled during Korea and we were stationed at Cherry Point North Carolina we came home and decided to go into our own business and we called it the dough manufacturing company and the label was Jackie of Dallas and this is when I changed from the J ACK that you saw it all in the university pay paper because my name is really Jacqueline but I never used the Jacqueline because
I always said I never boot well enough to have such a long name so we Jackie was what I always used in so but this was a more fitting an elegant not spelling of Jackie to be put on the label than the than the common J ACK I even everyone else used and so we cut off the line again and we use the Jason qu this was just our first factory building which really wasn't much but we got started in 53 and this was our letterhead we made junior dresses and sportswear this was a telegram Oh from two friends and here's to Barney and Jack
my father called me Jack a lot because he wanted that boy so he called me Jack more than even called me Jackie but if this is we were making the felt skirts him and and decorated skirts were big in that diamond that's what we were doing and although we did skirts but stop it was most experts and that type of thing and and separates and of course this was a time this was 53 and look we're back with all those scarves which we continually wear these are some of the ads tomorrow this was in this was barons which was a store not in Dallas Oklahoma
City Obama's and these were some more kind of things we made for modeling this was a show that we did at Amon Carter field and when it was first opened and we did a fashion show there in the dining area these are all of our garments modeled by here we had models well look at the time and a lot of the times I did the modeling and but not this time because I I think I did the narration and so this was party and I had the at that particular thing we got a blue ribbon at the State Fair for our garments we did a
lot of the felled skirts when Phil starts came in and I'd only did we do a lot of skirts but a lot of them live up we had we had them wired these were fatness was a fashion show State Fair this is me modeling one of them this was a correct posture and how to achieve it will be the theme of the Shahs Charm School Monday on channel 8 at 10 a.m. seated she demonstrated with aid of the apparel shop operator Adelle Raven Center and designer Jackie though how women of varying sizes can wear new fashions so that was Adele Raven and the other one with me these are most of these are just different ads of different kinds of things we did this was the fair the fair was a Houston yeah we just won this ad was in Sanger's we sold all over and this was an article that Barney put in saluting our designer with lifetime contract mrs.
Barney Bedok designer of famous Jackie a little more than a year ago that Jackie of Dallas line of fine sportswear skirts blouses and separates made his debut in the Dallas fashion and stage consumer acceptance was immediate enthusiastic much credit for our lines rabbit climb in popularity is due to our designer mrs. Barney boudoir her knowledge of fashions and her flair for the unusual captured the imagination of buyers and translated them into smart sales inviting creations are inviting crave our new fall line is no exception already it promises to top all records so we salute mrs. Maddow for the job well done well the moral of the story if your designer is tops marry her we did and it's signed by Barney without and this was and all of these are these are the some of the things that live up there like the lights lit up in red in and some of the jewels lit up and some of those and this was in the window of one of the stores I don't recall which one it's different ads from different stores all over the state and the territory these were the kind of things that we made and we were very very popular on
the felt skirts but we made outfits as well you know blouses to go with this was Tolbert's this was in Women's Wear Daily this one this was in the fashion sportswear magazine that was a guess on her head same thing here this is a very playful fun item I have we had a good friend who was a agent for famous people and one of his people was Liberace and whenever Lee would come to Dallas to perform he would come to the factory and who he had a mother and the sister who he would buy clothes from and he always came to buy from us and
so this is in one of the orders in 1955 ordered for them and signed it with love kind of treasure that it was a very special man oh this was in the gossip column of the retailer this was in 55 and this is gossip and this was a picture and it says here on our right in the white fluffy robe from the brand-new October 839 line of green brothers the model is guess who the answer is at the end of the gossip column hats off to the Dallas fashion well at the end of this it says the model in green brothers 1939 robe is Jackie
loose or Bedok now a manufacturer in her own right together with her husband Edie Green says she must have been all of 10 years old when this picture was made as I said before I started Molly at 4 and just kept going just lots more picture ads we got a blue ribbon at the State Fair again and more auntie em can that is this was this was in fall of a main market the fall market this was an e/m can in April of 56 oh this is me this is a model didn't did this particular time I had very short hair dead and it looks
like it's dark but it was not it was life oddly enough this is just pictures of candy pictures around the Mart this was in our showroom that's morning showing the customers these were other showrooms I don't know this one looks like me this one is me this one's me this one's Marnie so we had to in this around the market that's by uncle George so that's must have been my dad's company right there they work it was called L&L manufacturing company and their label was divine garments and that's my uncle George showing their things again just more of now we're into holiday and these were
holiday dressy like things that we made and here again I'm modeling this was I had something to do with the cotton this was something through with the Texas cotton industry so I'm out of my own dress they're more styles got another blue ribbon at the State Fair those were nice this one was in 56 and this was kober's ian can was I'm gonna start over here this was the era of big skirts this was a party outfit