Jake Golman
Jake Golman was born in Russia and left home at fifteen to work as a baker, drawn away by ambition and by the hardships Jews faced under the Russian regime. He received a traditional Jewish education through Talmud Torah and private tutoring, as Jewish children were barred from public schools. With an uncle already established in the baking business in Dallas, he saved for his passage and traveled by boat through Galveston, arriving in Dallas in 1911 at the age of eighteen. Over the following years he sent for his entire family, including his parents and siblings, bringing the last of them to the United States before the outbreak of war.
In Dallas, Golman worked long hours in his uncle's bakery before striking out on his own in 1921. After a family dispute, he purchased a struggling bakery and quickly turned it into a success, later reuniting with the family business and expanding through additional bakeries, including Goldman and Oakleaf. He married Faye Frances in 1918, and together they raised four children who each earned college degrees. The family lived in South Dallas and Oak Cliff, where his wife built a large home in Stevens Park, before later moving to North Dallas. He credited much of his success to his wife's strength and partnership.
A lifelong member of Shearith Israel, Golman served as its president and vice president, raised funds for new synagogue buildings, and helped resolve a contentious zoning fight over the Walnut Hill site. He was active in the Jewish Federation for nearly two decades and served on the national board of the American Bakers Association for many years. He gave extensively to Methodist, Baylor, St. Paul, and Presbyterian hospitals, served three times on grand juries, sat on a WPA planning board and a civic panel that helped end the bombing of homes in South Dallas, and worked to counter the Ku Klux Klan. He saw himself as an ambassador for the Jewish people and took pride in earning respect across religious lines.
Full Transcript
The New Year of the Year It's 1977, and this is Ginger Jacobs, and I'm talking to Mr. Jake Goldman. How long have you been in Dallas, Mr. Goldman? On November and October 12th, 66 years. So you came in 1911? 11. In Columbus there. Did you come right to Dallas? Right to Dallas, from Dallas, from Dallas. Where were you born? Where did you... I was born in Gronkabrania, Russia. And why did you leave Russia? Because that was my ambition to get away because Russia's never changed in all these years. years I remember the Nikolai and the Khrushchev telling the same thing. Human beings are respected down there, especially our people, Jewish people.
You're not allowed to go to private school, in a school as you get a tutor. They got no right to talk to the Jewish people. It's fine, I can tell the wrong people, that's why they got no right either. But that's where they lived. They never changed. Even Carter wouldn't change. He thinks he's tied up with anybody. He wasn't changing. I could tell Carter a long time ago he made a mistake. How is it that you came to Dallas? I had an uncle who was in the baking business and I was a baker over there. And you came direct to Galveston? To Galveston, yeah. And from there you came right to Dallas?
in a kettleboat. It took me twenty-eight days to get a forty dollars worth. Did your uncle send you a ticket or did you save money for your own ticket? Yes. For the rubles. How long did you have to work for that? About how long did it take you to make enough money to get it? I did about three years. And how old were you when you came? I was 18 years of age. What was your Jewish education in Europe Well I went to Talmud Torah you know I went higher up you know I would tell you you used to have an exam And the rabbit down there, if you don't know it, it'll pinch your cheek, the pinch is put out.
I won't put out, but my dad was a valid long man. He wanted to kiss to know somebody too. Especially the first couple of Jewish homes all over the year, year and a month. We had to know. Did you go to a public school as well? No, no. Up here? No, in Europe. No, we didn't let you go to a public school. But did you, then you had... Yeah, the tutor in the house, I was, we just went in, they had eight children, they stayed with us. That's the system. Well, when you said Talmud Tori, did you go to school, a school, part of that time?
In Jewish school, sure. In Jewish education. Yeah. And then your tutor, tutored you? Yeah. Tutored for the window because it's coming by the phone straight through the window door. Isn't it funny? Yeah. That's what it was. There was no school then in the winter months? It had Jewish studies. I used to go to, in synagogue, I had a class I used to give. Yeah. That's who used to go. Sure. And then plus the tutor at home? Yeah. Is that it? The tutor at home for everybody. I see. They can call some. Was there school every day when you went to school? Yeah. That show? Yeah.
I see. Did you have any education when you came to the United States? You know, schooling here, did you go any type of school here when you came? I had a tutor here. You did have a tutor? Yeah. And English subjects are also Hebrew? English. Were there any classes run by the Jewish community? Up here? Yeah. No. Did you just hire somebody to teach you when you did? Yeah, I had a very nice job three or four times a week. I see. She's come to the house, in fact. I had a little play, and she's come to the house. She taught you English? Yeah, it was a man.
A man? Yeah. He worked with English on you? Yeah, he was an excellent. I knew more than he did. Yeah, yeah. Did you go outside the Jewish community to find someone to teach you or was it within the Jewish community No I found out that some Jewish show up in the That time there lots of lots of people used to do nothing but they make a living out of it when the immigrants used to come in. I see. Then they had perhaps come a few years before you and they already knew? Yeah, yeah. That's what they were making a living out of it. I see.
I see. Where did you live when you came to the United States? The first time I lived in Homestead, you know, I don't know if you know where it is. South Dallas? Then I went on Brattle Street. Then I went South Harwood. Then I wound up in Colonial, I guess you know what that is. Then I, we built an apartment in Colonial 1922. And we moved there in 26. And then in 1939, my wife, she was a builder. She built a home in in Stevens Park, it was beautiful, it had a big room. Four bedrooms, four bedrooms for Charlotte. The dining room I guess was about 20 by 18.
The dining room fit in down there. The living room I think was 28 by 24, big room, a down step, you know, a beautiful house. Got good furniture too. And then we had a breakfast room, a big dining room, a big kitchen, then a big den, a big den I guess, 18 by 18 something. Then a big plush I think was 20 by 40. Got a big room. I sold it in 1963. Then your kids went to school in Oak Cliff? Yeah, Anita graduated from Sunset, so it left. I see. Anita went two years to SMU, then she decided she went, I mean to... Texas?
No, she went, she didn't go to Texas, she went to South Dallas, Frost Avenue High School. High School. Where you went, Frost? Then she decided, I used to take her back and forth every day, and decided she would go to sunset and she finished there with high honors. She was W White you know W White She was private secretary in school She got here in the University of California Berkeley She told me she couldn learn nothing in Dallas She wanted a better education I used to be a great school now to become radical. You know what it is, huh? Yes. Right up in San Francisco.
Yes. Now, let's see, when you moved on Holmes, did you room in somebody's house or did you rent a house or what was your name? No, I had a house. You rent a house? Yeah, four-bedroom houses. When you came, right when you came here? No, no, I was leaving Holmes in one room. I see. Then later on, about half a block from there, I'd been there. And Sam Gallman come in and he said, I asked him to please, Julius Gallman. Then I sent after birth to Nathan's son. Then she kept house for us, three boys. I see. That's the time she got in the frame.
And Hyman was a boy to Mrs. Joe, Jenny Sheps, you know, they called Jenny Shep. Yes. And that's where he got married. I see, I see. The Jenny Sheps was your aunt. He was my uncle. He was your uncle. I see, I see. He was a great man, Uncle Joe Shepst. Joe Shepst's father, Joe Shepst's father. Joe's still alive. Yes, yeah. Now, then, little by little, you sent for your brothers and sisters then? I sent for the whole family. They come in the last, the last sheep come into the United States before I went for a car in 14, they come in the last one.
I like that. They were lucky. My gosh, it was clear. I didn't leave none of my family there. I left lots of uncles and aunts, but I couldn't care about everybody, but I bought them all in. Did you bring your parents here too? Yeah. Part of my mother. And when Derek came in, he wanted to know what he was going to do. I said, you go to Shure. We'll do the rest. Mother too. I remember my mother left us too awful early. She left us in, she was 54 years old, in 23 she passed away. And then my father passed away in three days. How did you observe, what was your observe This is like when you came, were you Orthodox?
Yeah, I was Orthodox, yeah. Have you changed over the years? I didn't change much because when I joined Jackson's synagogue, the ladies were sitting together. On the Orthodox, ladies didn't sit together, therefore they were very conservative. Then it might be out today. They didn't change much. The ladies always sat with the men? Yeah. They didn't sit upstairs? No. No. I can go with House 14, that's all I can go. Okay. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Therefore, I haven't, I think I haven't changed a whole lot. Everybody, President, everybody has changed a few things now. Yeah. Does the lady get a lady now, you know, get a master, you know?
Yeah. Well, that's the conservative, you know. Right. What about the length of the service? The length of the service I think now is like a Saudi or a high holiday. In Saudi I think takes about, about 40 minutes less. In high holiday it takes about two hours less. Or shunna, you know. Because they, they cut out lots of things, you know, make it short, you know. You see they used to read the whole Torah, you know, in Saudi. Now they only get half of it, therefore that's the way they cut out. What about people walking the shul as opposed to riding? Did they walk on the russi shul?
That time they did. When I came to Dallas, there was no riding. You see, no other people are in synagogue. And, yeah, I used to walk from colonial, from South Howard to the synagogue. How far would you say that is? Two miles? About two and a half miles at least. No, there was, that time was no lighting. Not on Saturday either? No. Now it's changed. Yeah. It's been changed around 18, 20, it starts changing right quick. What about the percentage of people keeping kosher in the show? Compared then to today? Mm-hmm. I think that time I think was about 95 percent kosher, today maybe about 5 percent of people.
about 5 of keeping kosher I put another Maybe I know what I talking about that where I put put it in That the difference How many kosher butcher shops were there In the 1920s In that time, it was not many. In June we had about three or four. We had North Dallas, we had South Dallas, we had a schedule all over. How many sheikh? Did we have more than one sheikh? Did we ever have more than one sheikh here? Norway had more than one because our Sherry was four hours in the government. Sherry was not the answer that he was thinking of there. Norway had about two or three.
So they had a question and they got one. The men got one. Yeah. That's all. Yeah. How is it you happen to join Sherry of Israel? Well, my Uncle Joe got home down there and I figured it was good for him. It was good for me. Was the service pretty much like your services at home in Europe, or was there a big change? That time was not my change that time. Most of it in Hebrew? Yeah. There was no English at all. 100% Hebrew. No Hebrew. The Sidorim only have Hebrew? That's all. Did people bring their own Sidorim at that time? No. The Shul had Sidorim already?
The Shul had Sidorim, yeah. What about the amulkes and thalassim? Yes, I'd like to go home. No one ever forgot them, did you? No. Do you feel that your observance has changed over the years, your own observance of holidays, like on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur? Yeah, bound to be. You know, you can stay with the same thing, you got to be after today's days. Yeah. It's changed lots. In what way? Well, you see the other one don't do, you follow the... that's where it goes, you know. You usually do what my job is doing. If you're an individual, you just don't know, you won't succeed to begin with, you know.
Some of them are individuals now, they're working out of synagogue, I didn't think so long. Right. That's how I feel about it. Yes. Sure has changed lots. The present rabbis changed more than ever did, you know. I can name several rabbis I have started. Rabbi Bastnik was Strikler Orthodox Rabbi then Camin Rabbi Vorne particularly Rebbe then came in Rebbe Vorne Rebbe Texan Rebbe Gold Rebbe Rasio Silman, Faudin, that was his first pop of Silvius. Yes. And then I have a Shapira, now we got Monique. Yeah. Um, was the main change in the amount of Hebrew used and the length of the service? What was the main change as you saw?
The main chain now they cut out the... They cut out the... Hebel. And half of it they don't even... The rubber keeps using the English, you know, and some remember it like it. They didn't have to do nothing. Mm-hmm. They don't pray how they used to. That time they come pray, they pray. Today it's just another show. Mm-hmm. Like Friday night service, it's just a show. Because according to religion, I suppose they have that kind of service, that's 8 o'clock. The service is, after the sun goes down, and you, which they have it right now too, but that's the second service. The second service is the shore for the people.
Yeah. Do you remember a time when they just had the early service, the Kabbalat Shabbat beforehand, and there was no late service? Or had they all this? We didn't have them on the Yachty table, no, we didn't have them. No, we didn't have them. The late service started about 1924, my memory was right. We didn't have no late service. I see. But I think it's a good thing, I believe if you can bring the people in synagogue. I question we're bringing off here right now, that's our problem. I made some suggestions several times to the abbot, but some of them ignoring it and let them go ahead and do the way they think the best.
They can do lots of things. They can have one Friday night, I know all the press press, one Friday night, all the directors. You can bring lots of people that way. That obviously a leader after all What are some of the oh let talk about your businesses and how it was when you came and when you worked for your uncle and your aunt. I was working hard. I worked 18 hours a day, seven days a week. What did they bake at that time when you came here? That time they baked it. When I come here we baked rye-wurst, frenchwurst, salads, bagel, Pompernick, and we had some white bread, it was called milk bread, you know, just a few lobs and not enough to talk about it.
We didn't start baking bread for the public, actually, for the consumer, in 1914. We jumped from five people to 25 people in the back of the night. Over there, the height of 150, 200. Okay. When did you go out on your own and how was it been? In January 1921, I had this agreement with the family, with the Shep's family. I've been my uncle. He was still alive. Jesus and Joyce thought they knew more than I did in the business and they were jealous, I think, to a certain extent. And I felt I ought to look out for myself. And there was a baker in the city of Dallas owned by the Enos of Bush, you know, you call Dallas Hotel.
I already saw the Dallas Hotel now. And there, a competition to the other bakeries. They called it Dolphins Bread. But they didn't know about the business. They was losing lots of money. And they had by $200,000 investment, myself and my brother, Jesus Golden, bought it for $32,500. Then I went to... The reason I'd done that, because Uncle Joe's chef promised me he'd make a corporation, give me some stock after I worked all the years. But the boys decided no. After I got an option to the bakery, then they come along the one being it. They let him in for 30% to go on that bin for me to stay at the ship and I leave that plant.
And I said, no, I'm down there, my bottom line, I'm an agency, I'm a person, Sam Goldman. Well, they was there in January, February, March, they was losing money. My money, what I put in was money whitewashed. Well, they never signed the papers. They wouldn't be signing a five-year contract if I wanted to give them a stock. I didn't care for the stock. On the 23rd of April 1921, I walked out of the plant and took 16 top men with me, and I took charge of the plants and iron, and sand, they were there. In four months, I took away 50% of the chef's business.
Uncle Joe used to pick me up every morning, he said, what I'll do, my boys are trying to ruin me. Then we got together, the family, we started. We lost about $30,000, and at the end of the year, from April 15th, 15 to January 22, the first 1922, we come out with $40,000 profit. I showed them I was done, you know. I knew from outside and inside the business, you know. Then we consulted together, we worked together to carry both of them. Then we bought some more bakers. In 2008 we sold out to a national company because of American Bakers today, that time was pure, the Bakers Company.
And I took the road that time to achieve production, you know, production in Bakers. I had about ten plans, you know, I traveled for a year and a half. the dollars for work, Houston, Kansas City, Memphis stuff. But I didn't go along with the people. I didn't want to work for them. In 30, I resigned there in January 1st, 1930, and we built two bakers. In that time, Goldman and Oakley. That's really been in business all the years. I see. I see. What type of operation was the Chef's Bakery then when you left it? You said after you put in they started baking for the public and they Oh yeah we were baking for the public then for a long time I see But it was basically a public bakery when you left it already Oh yeah.
I built it faster than you could look at it, Dolphins Baking, when I ran down there. How did you deliver when you first came? Well... When you first came and you started working for them in 1911, Yeah. How did you, did you deliver bread or did people just come in, you know, Jewish community? Yeah, we did deliver house and bargain. Oh, you did? Yeah, we delivered house and bargain. When did you go to trucks? In 1914. Did you just sell to the Jewish community? No, no, we sold out by then. But now in 19... Our big business was already on town, all the restaurants, we had many of them.
Oh, I see. Yeah. Were there Jewish restaurants here? Not enough to talk about bad Mr. Steele, you know. That's why I took away from them all the rest of my business. That was from the Shep's in four months, took it away from them. I see. Because Julius Goldman brought up his outside man. I see. He just went and took all the business when he had it. That's when we made it up together, family got together. You know what Julius Shep's told me? When you left I was mad, when you come back I'm damn glad I'll never say another word to you all the way because I find out I didn't know what I was doing.
After that we got home all night, like, none of our cousins like Boyles. How long did Julius Shep stay in the baking business? Well when we saw it in 1930, he never went back in. You see we all went block in the stock market. We had me and I have cash and we all put in stock market. We lost it all in October 28, 1929. I had no use to get in and start up and then people were so hungry for business, they let me have credits. If you got a good name, they give you credits. By that time, people were so hungry, they let you have anything you want.
All that equipment on board, after that, people would help yourselves. That's pretty good, ain't it? It's very good. It's very good. But we were very successful for years, but the last four years we were not successful. I couldn't find the big comings. We had a couple losses but when you lose a million and get 200 you don come out so good Right I retired four years ago Now, did you sell out again then? What? Did you sell out again before you retired? Yeah, yeah. To the big companies, to the bigger ones that came in? Now, you want to know about the community work? Yeah, tell me about the community work.
Well, I always like to do community work, you know. You got to give something if you take something out, you know. When I built Bacon Oakleaf in 1930, after three years, they were all made outstanding man of the community. And when I come in there was not much Ku Klux. But in three years a Sholom a Jew is not a Ku Klux, is not a... you can live with Jews too, you know. And that's the reason I got a big traffic down there. In 1935, there's WPA planning board, you know, like on the Roosevelt's. I don't know if you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, Roosevelt's New Deal.
New Deal. And I was appointed by Senator Tom Conley. He was a representative of Texas at that time. He had the Senate as a congressman. They appointed five of them to distribute the $3 million for Dallas Conley. I was going to five. That was in 1935. And we done a big job. We didn't...people build anything with sewers and everything, like Highland Park, University Park, or Mosquito Oil. at for Dallas County all over. I put in eight months on there. We had an office in the old red building in the courthouse, no air conditioning, but we made it. Then in 1937, I was already working there.
I was already officer. I was elected president of Cliff Schimler Commons. I served that for two years. In 1935 the Methodist Hostel was going bankrupt you know And they had a big meeting calling a bunch of business people not live And I didn't realize with all the big Methodist preachers, you know, they put me at the head table. I didn't know why I was sitting there, Dr. Slackman at the gross clothes. And when they got through it, they said, the chairman of the drivers was going to be, we have to raise $400,000. It was going to be an Adam Borajekov. I said, you mean a Jew buddy is going to raise money for all you big Matthews?
What's the matter with you all? He'd be German. He was one of the, he was the editor. You may have heard his name. The one that had the Lone Star Steel, I think, yeah. And he said, no. He said, you're going to be the man. I picked about ten men in the committee. In a period of 30 days we got the money, bailed them out. After that I've been in many drives in Methodist Hospital, Bela, St. Paul. The last one in Pospetira in Abu Dhabi. But anytime you're in a drive you gotta give money. We don't have to leave me. I got three rooms in Methodist Hospital in that name.
And then about a couple of years later, I was elected on the National Board of the American Banking Association. I served there for 18 years, 24 years after. I was elected eight times three years in time. I saw the Executive Vice President of the National, I got some paper here, I'll show you. And I put in lots of work at National. I tried one big convention, I had Alan Sheevers. He was the principal speaker at the National Convention for us. I said, I had a governor at Alan Sheevers. You see me down there too? Yeah, sure did, sure. I tried to the convention, all the Texas boys come in, that was in 1957.
All the Texas boys come in with 10 gallon heads. Out of me, you know, in the out of the cell. I served my life three times as a grand jury. You know what a grand jury is? Go ahead and explain. We spent three months at a time. You don't spend this one day. All the criminal cases come up the other. They got a system, this country works with you, but you got twelve people. I served in 33 when they had all the gangsters they had by the park and all that. They was under our supervision at that time, three months. We sent, we sent, I think that time I fought to the chair and we sent a bunch of them to Alcatraz.
We opened Alcatraz with those, with the machine gun killer, Harvard, Basin, and Harvard Bailey. One of them got away from jail, they couldn't, I remember. The last Grand Jovey I saw was 1951. You remember there was bombing the Negro Homes and South Dallas because they wanted a marina? Yes. And the Dallas business people got scared, you know, because when you fire with fire, fire will come back at you. Right. Well, they picked 12 people to be what you call a blue living rancho. That's all we're doing, nothing else. Just devote the time and stop there. I was one of the 12. That's a nice sound.
I think I got in the paper somewhere. They said, Bowman, just, uh... Remember, 51? September 23rd, 1951. I got in my name this song, I know that. Probably I'll have another paper here. We had the... Department of Dallas News, the Department of Times Hell was on it. Departed and self-assurance life insurance, people like that, and I was like, I don't know why they put me in. I was there, you know. But we've done a good job, we stopped all those forest lands. They were burning homes and buying homes, you know. I thought I'd done my duty as a citizen to stop it because it could go worse.
How did you stop, how did you go about stopping the, uh... We called in a bunch of witnesses, And the leader from there was a fellow by the name Johnny Moore, a Baptist preacher. I told Henry Wade at this fraternity we were going to die about 50 people including the preacher At that time, Henry Wade was on service, the second term. He would get a fear that time. I made him sick, he went home. He went to the doctor for three or four days, he didn't show up even. But that was a deity. I want to... We called in Mr. That preacher that afternoon. And I had the...
Out of friends of mine, the Jew, the grand Jew, to let me handle it. And for three, four hours, his face was just like this. I told him, a God's man, you're supposed to represent people. And you're trying to... meetings and kill people? I kept him here, I kept him there from the Grand Jove for three hours. When he left, then we called him back a week later. We didn't indict him because we knew what we could, we used to want to stop him. the mass instead of inditing people, anybody can indict people, but we didn't even care for that. We actually wanted to stop that killing, that burning, that bombing, you know.
We should have done a good job. We spent 60 days there and after that we never heard another word no more. How did you know that the preacher was responsible? Oh, we got all the information. We sent out some investigators. So you had witnesses? Oh yeah, he couldn't deny it, because we had him right for him. We'd be out of time, we'd go to jail, but who wants to start that kind of... That time was fresh, you know, the white ones still white and the black ones still black, you know. Right. It's a difference today. Today the black ones got more safe than the white ones, the way he looks at me now.
But that time was... You had to be careful because to affect someone threatening at the time. They knew who the people was in the country, I had to call to it. You better not do this and you better not do this, but we didn't pay attention to it, you know. After you let him go, it stopped him? It stopped 100%. And no more threats from anybody? No no no I think we done a good job on that Sure you did Let see what I said here You know that Dungy got a brother of Hubbard's friend. Ray Hubbard was our chairman. We had the grand jury.
Henry King was our judge. Let's see. I got some of the sick and I'm going to find a little bit. I'll leave all the names. Others on the special panel were James Wood, Insurance Executive, B.F. McLean, Furniture Company, Charles G. Stubbs, Former Marriott Mayor, William O. H. Cothram, Builder, Julia Chefs, Liquor Distributor, Jacob Goldman, Baking Executive, Clarence A. Tatum, Jr., Electric Utility Executive, Durham, Negro Attorney, Reverend B.R. Riley, Negro Pastor, James F. Chambers, Jr., Managing Editor of the Time Show. Felix McKnight, Managing Editor of the Morning News. You've got quite a group. Oh, yeah. Better top boys. I don't know why I got any done.
You can do it, but you can see the acting. What were some of the other things that you were involved in as far as community was concerned, or Junior Chamber of Commerce, or some of the organizations that you were in? No. I'm still a member of the role of the club. You heard of the club. Yes. I was a child member of the Oakleaf Lions Club, which is the biggest club in the United States today. I think that was a day to honor somebody, an Irish boy, a check member. Nice boy. and when Oakleaf Chamber of Commerce was going to build a building in Oakleaf, their own building, they gave me an assignment in 1943 to be chairman to raise money for the building.
That was my job. I was chairman of the finance to raise money to build a building, which I was very successful. That time those days when they used to see me coming someone was hiding because they knew I couldn have the money I talking about the big dollars I ain talking about I went to the top dollars and the city of dollars Any banking dollars, any hedger utilities, I shook them up and got money from them. The only way you can get money is from the big people. You can't get it from the small people. You got like dollars per light, dollars per gas company, telephone company, Mercantile Bank.
Yeah, I even got that time, I remember five thousand dollars in the Singaporean at that time. It was another Singaporean house. I was a bad boy comes to raise money, but I always raise money, but not for myself, trying to help. What about the Jewish community? What was your involvement in the Jewish community? Well, I think I served about eighteen, twenty years in the Federation of Borden. I was an executive committee, I was doing my share, I think. Were you involved in the Zionist organization at all? Not much. How did you feel about Zionism? I think it's a great thing. My kids are lazy. Works up.
I never had time for everything. Yeah. And then, uh, you know, lazy, very active. And then I had, uh, I belong some clubs too in the house. What are some of the clubs, the Jewish clubs, that you belong to? Well, I'll tell you somebody, Jewish club was no club that time. There was Colombian club that time, when it was around Radach, you know, where it used to be, Augustine. And they was only looking for the German Jews, and one of commoners Jews, you know. In the meantime, in 1928, I was joining Lakewood's Contra Club, which is one of the fine clubs in town. and I belonged to Oak Cliff Country Club I didn't belong I paid years and when they come to see me after the Bill Columnan Club and I asked him where I was the 40 years ago I've been a long time I told him I couldn't see it my voice doesn't belong to you but I couldn't see it if I was if they couldn't see me I had potatoes in my ears, why should I join them?
I would have had all the more clubs I wanted to belong. I belonged to Dallas Club, it's a luncheon club. Some day I'll call them, I can take them up down there. It's one of the finest clubs in town. I took horse a lot of these and they for lunch. I'd say, I'll be on the record now. There's something I want to take you out and take them to. I want to Dallas Toledo Club. Now that's all I got now. Dallas Toledo Club and Dallas Club. That's all I need to manage where I'm going. I will. Are you affiliated with other Jewish clubs now? I mean, you know, like the ZOA or any of the...
No, I had a kid. My grandson, he met while I was going to Big Macadana. Yeah, yeah. What about B'nai B'rith? Have you ever been in B'nai B'rith? Yeah, sure. Involved in B'nai B'rith? Yeah, sure. What about your shul activities? What about the synagogue activities? Well, I didn't do much in my life. I served, I think, vice president about four years. I served a present for four years. I was a Galvanian for four years. I raised, when I built a new synagogue, I raised as much as one as lots of them, maybe more. I gave them, I think at that time, 15,000. That was 1954, 25, I don't remember.
And then, I carried the turf in the old synagogue to the new synagogue, I think I told you that. And then we had a problem to sell the old synagogue, you know, because it all torn up. You remember the old synagogue? Yes, yeah. Well, many of us, which you know who he is, he was trying to get the Dallas kind of roadway men to sell because he knew he was going to roadways, you know, and he couldn't He'd find out, but I knew the chairman of the State Highway. One day he called me up and said, Jay Goldman, here's the papers for the last two years.
I got to correspond with him. We can't get Nobels. We'll never sell this show. What do you know what you can do? I said, give it to me and see what I can do. I called up my friend Charlie Horn, which he lives in Athens, Texas. He was the chairman of the state of Iowa then. And I asked him to come into Dallas, because I knew him that well. If you know people you didn have a hard time And he come in I told him what I got in my mind He said what will it take I said it a good emergency for us because if you people wouldn take it out of it in the next four or five years we wouldn't have a hard time to sell.
We could sell for insurance, we could sell for anything. It's a good location. I'd build it up. Got 170 thousand and expect to get 50 thousand. I done that. That's nobody can take away that car because I've done it. Yes, I mean, I'll tell you who's done it. She's still alive. Well now, they wanted the right of way for the highway. Yeah, they were about five years off yet, you know. Yeah, but they would not have been able to do it had been sold to any place house. That's right. Now the man couldn't do nothing with the local man. Yeah. works under the St. Ivey, you know.
Yes. But I went to the top. I didn't go to the bottom. I went to the chairman of the St. Ivey. Charles Hunt, I said, look here. What year was that? Do you remember? That was 1954, 55. That was before the shill even moved? We already started building, yeah. Started building at that time. Yeah, that's right. How was it that we built the shill at Park and Eakin? Do you remember when they were building in 1990? Oh, yeah, I was there in the foreground. Do you remember the circumstances? Yeah, that was a big thing that time. I remember because my Uncle Joe Shepard gave us the biggest money that time.
Sixth time was the biggest pledge. I remember that. I was a member there. I was a member of Jackson City. How much were the dues then? The dues I think was about $36 a year. When we moved into the Shill on Park in Hinkins? Yeah. $24 and $36. How do you have any, do you know why they chose that site? Do you have any? Because the Jewish people lived in that Palatine was there. All the Jews lived in Colonial, Forest, Grand Avenue, Park Road, that's it. They were all surrounded. That's the Jews lived there too. Right, right. What about when they came to buy the building site at Walnut Hill?
I was in the committee. I'm the B. How is it that you chose that site? Well, we thought I was there. The central lock in for the Jewish people who are moving in there you Mm But that was not my idea actually The man would start it He couldn't finish it. He left town. H.P. Thomas said, we've got to build one there. I told you about that thing. No, okay. H.P. Thomas, big old man, then moved back to... And they were trying to stern him because he said it was wrong. But later on, they looked around after he left, And we decided to look. A committee of five was there and I was one of the five, and we bought for twenty-four thousand dollars, twelve acres.
And one of the committee members raised in Cain. We threw away the synagogue's money. You know why? He was going to buy it himself. Mr. M. W. Levy's, we're plumbing a bit. But he's gone now. What year was that in? Now, you're talking about Maurice Levy, is that right? What year was that in that you were looking and you bought? It revolved, I think, around 1944, 45. It was that early. Yeah. What was some of the pro- there were problems about the- There were lots of problems. Tell us about the problem. Yeah, I'll tell you what the problem was. The people didn't want a tuition synagogue, and the property we already bought.
And then the federal judge, now Joe, I can't call his last name, no. And the fellow named Walter Cousin was one of the leaders to fight us. And we had about ten lawyers who were working on it. Charlie Marcus was working on it. They all worked up a lot on that. And then the final, a man volunteered to help us, Henry Strasberger, another Jewish fellow. He came in, he went in the wind and helped us win the case. And it went to the Jewel. And yeah, the case, I'm jumping ahead of me. The case went to, Sarah T. U.S. Court, she was a time district, state court, you know, before she become federal.
And she kept to there about four months, nothing doing. Finally, the lawyers were scared to talk to her because she was a pretty tough lady. I went to see her I said what shall I call you today You know Jake you and I she called me Sarah T I said good I didn tell her that today she told me the same thing I said, I come here. I'm not telling you. I'm asking you now. Don't forget now. I'm not telling the judge what to do. I'm asking you. I said, I'm in the rest of our synagogue. If you're too busy, why don't you let another judge handle it?
Are you telling the judge what to do? Oh, she jumped over. I said, don't get mad. I'm mistaken. You know, you and I have been friends for a long time. We had lunches together several times. I said, I was lunch. She was a fellow of the job because I used to go with other jobs too, you know. Then she sent me for a dollar blank ship. She used to call. He started walking around. I used to read him like a book too. I said, I'll advise you. You're afraid you won't get elected. bring in a country George. The Lord scared it out to him. I'm a civilian.
I can say anything I want. I don't have to have a favor. And he brought in a country George. Then he went to the Jew. When I went to the Jew, there was a fellow named Johnson and Wallach Cousin. I can't call the fellow Jew's name now. They sat on the side and we sat on the other side. I said, let's make one deal. If we lose, I'll come up and shake your hand. If we win, I want you to do the same way. When the Jew come out and give us the decision, all the cousins say, they're all going to be here. I say, you're talking about Jews now.
I'm a Jew too. Don't tell me you like me, you don't like the other one. I'm a Jew too. I say, I'll surprise you. Then we went to the Supreme Court and we wanted to know that cause. But we stopped building before the scene was made. You weren't afraid to buy the property without it being zoned? No. Was Strasburg a member of Sheriff Israel? No, he was non-Jewish. He was not Jewish? No. And Strasburg, no. He gave us $500 on top of it, and then he was not the first boy. I like that. It's unusual. He was a great friend of mine, a wonderful man.
It doesn't hurt to know people in the world. Yes. I happen to be fortunate I know lots of people, you know. I mix with people, I think I know as many people in Dallas. I'm talking with the big boys you're talking about now. So you're saying it was a matter of anti-Semitism, that the people in there were all that youngs, but no one. That was definitely, you put it in the court. There was no reason, with all the grand we had for not to have one. If you wouldn't have no grand, take away somebody's. We had all the grand in the world. We still got lots of it left.
When we sold that piece for, remember for the Toros? We got $90,000 for the piece of the strip. We paid one for, got $90,000 for a piece, you know. I was active in synagogue all my life. I was not just a layman member. And I didn't ask for her to. They elected me president when I was out of town. They went to see me, the government by Fagel, and she agreed with them. They sold her. Harris Siegel and a captain, Sherman Captain, they went to see my vassal. at home when they come in so it's a good thing for me. What year was that? Forty-four.
And you served then from 1944 to 1946. I was in my rehab at that time, Weisfield, and they all kind of came by, but I think it was a great rehab for myself. You remember? Yes. I kept him in nine years, he was trying to get a mile in three years. But after nine years, I seen, we couldn't build a synagogue, people wouldn't come in with the money, the big boys. If you're ready by 250, we stop you. And I had to be the man to tell him, you might as well make a move, we pay for your salary, 15,000 a time. I raised the money for that.
The man who's supposed to raise the money, the one to fight himself, the man who's chairman to raise the money, and I wind up my family, I lost the time. I wind up with the double money in the hospital. And when I come home, I get a call, say, Jake, I'll try to raise and I can't do nothing. I say, I'll take the job. From bed, I was staying home and I raised the money. What year was that? That was in 1953 when he left us. The wife would come in in 1954. My memory is very good So then when Silverman came you were able to raise the money He came around in 44 and he served 9 years that 53 Right And then you were able to raise the rest of the money after Silverman came in No, we raised the money for Abelaiso before he left.
Well, you bought his contract now, up and then when... We didn't have a contract, we just gave it to him. Oh. There was no contract after Abelaiso? No. We done it with three or four, but we done it with gold. We paid him off too. We know we have to do it. But I think when a man leaves like ever, I think you got to do something for him. That's what I feel. He's not your only person for life. Some of them didn't accuse me, but they went along with me. We see them, I had a problem too, when he was leaving. Some of them got a little mad, didn't want him to leave, you know.
I knew the reason why I was leaving. And still, I was able to raise enough money to give my husband a convertible car. I handled the kids to them at the banquet. We had 653 people at the banquet. Did people want Silverman to leave? No, they wanted to stay. Well, then he left entirely because he had a contract. No, he never had a contract with Silverman. He also had to run in? He had run in with the president and he felt that if he was going to be on the tree like that, he may start looking. I don't want to mention him anything. He told me every time, I had lunch with him a couple of times, he said, Jake, I'm looking around now because it's strange, but if men are after me, You got lots of power, I better protect my family.
I'm very close to them because when she gave birth to the baby, I flew down there and I was the godfather of the police. He's 11 years old and 11 and a half years old. What, you talked about your homes. Did you own all of your homes over the years? Yeah. After you moved from Oak Cliff back to North Dallas or rather to North Dallas where did you live In Peel House 11 years You know where it is It on Northwest Highway Yeah I lived 11 years behind the Pink Falls So it was apartment living and then you moved to this apartment here Too much room, 2200 square feet.
It takes too much to keep up. This is your side for me. What type of family structure did you have over the years? You said that your parents came and you brought your, rather you brought your parents over and you brought your brothers and sisters over and for a while your sister kept house for you. Did your mother come and live in the same house? Your parents live in the same house? No, when they come in we brought them home in Beaumont Street. They moved the house for themselves by the way. And uh... No we don't have anything. I... Okay. I don't have my share.
I don't want to mention that about them. Jews call myself done most of that time. Then when you married, did you live with your wife by yourselves? Did you move out from your home with your brothers and sister? No, I moved in that time to Israel, on Brattle Street. Yeah, it was brand new at that time. It just wasn't even used yet. We stayed there for two years, then I bought out in South Harwood. We stayed there until 1926. I had paid off for the apartment that I built before I wanted to move. I didn't want to move for all obligations. So you paid cash for all your homes?
Yeah. Never had a mortgage. Never had a mortgage on the homes? No. Isn't that a little unusual? She was the same way as I was. She didn't get the mortgages. She couldn't pay, but she didn't want to move. That's right. Like I told you, I was in Moosey, a two-star apartment to be paid for that time we moved. What about, then after when you, after you married and then you moved on Browder Street, you didn't have any of your relatives living with you, is that correct? No, I never did. Just the family? Yes, the family. What was your father's occupation? Was he also a baker?
No, he was a merchant. He had a little farm. He had potatoes, colloes, potatoes to sell, onions, cucumbers, that's what he was doing. Now how did you become a baker? Because I didn see any future for me I left home when I was 15 years of age And I went to work in Walcliffe the name of the city at that time in Gordnick State you know And I worked there about a year and then I got a promotion. Then I got my little back of it myself. It lasted about eight months. Then I decided to go to the United States. Hmm. So you really were in business.
Is there any intermarriage in your family? Has there been ever any intermarriage? In my present family? No. How do you see the Jewish community over the years, how it's grown? Well, the intermarriage is getting more all the time. I'm pushing. But I think that begins at home to begin with. I still think I raised four children, they're no problems. Therefore I can talk about experience. Now I don't think Larry Goldman is going to have any trouble with his son. He's tied up with all that work he's doing now. I think it begins at home. And neither Mark is not going to have any trouble either with those children.
What are some of the other changes that you see within the Jewish community now? Well, it's pretty well mixed up now. Some people want the old religion, some of them the new. And it's hard to please everybody. I go along with whoever takes the change, I'll go along with them. I think that's all they do, you can change people. Some of them Some of them are still strong for the old St. Lawrence, you know, but I think they're losers because the best way to do is get along instead of trying to fight it. Because that's what all the rebels do. They got to please the mess of the people what they want.
That's what they want. They're going to give it to him. If I have, I think, one St. Lawrence, I think he would give it to him if they want it that way. But he wouldn't have nobody in the sink either. Am I right or...? You've got a very good point there. No, I think he would. He would act longer as a driver, see? But he comes in and he sees what the people want, he got to give it to him. I can't change it, now am I going to do it? Why? Well, do you see him as really breaking anything as far as tradition is concerned?
Yeah, he's done several things since he came in, sure. We never had that related to men. Now, he'd legalize that. Yeah, I'm talking in terms of Jewish law as opposed to custom. Well, that's what I'm talking about. It's the Jewish law. You're under the Jewish law then? No, ladies are there for me. Well, they haven't for a long time. But as far as practical Jewish law is concerned. I know why the law was made, too, for the latest. Because it says in the Bible, I remember that when I learned it, it's a long time. A woman not kosher because she ministered. That's the reason the law was made.
I read it. It's called absurd. I had a whole, I had a master, but I can't, I'll give you all the details about it, and that's the law was made. That's, I can tell you why. You think I didn't know anything? No, I... I mean, you want to know why? I can tell you why. Yeah, yeah. That's the reason the old type of rabbis still stick by the ground, and the humans want to know if most of the people want, they got to give it to me, if not, it'd be a job. That's all I'm going to say. It's just plain to me. I can see that and I can't fight it.
I wouldn't fight it. Whatever I got left in this world, I ain't gonna fight a change. What about the institutions, Jewish institutions in Dallas? Do you see them as being not as strong as they were, like Federation? I think Federation's doing a good job, I think. Did you have more involvement when the community was smaller? Uh-huh. Did you have more involvement when you were Jewish? Oh, I was involved with it for many years in the Federation. I mean, the community is general, in general. The Jews, did more Jews proportionately give to the Federation, for example, when it was a small community than, you know, now?
Well, we got some of them, you can never give them nothing. Yeah. I remember I used to be brought to Isaiah Zestman, remember Isaiah Zestman? There was a guy trying to raise money within the Federation. People seriously just hide behind the trucks and everything else And I see one of them was in the same business as you all His boys were still in the same business What are the boys names The boys No, in the same business as you. Oh, Scrap, Scrap, Scrap. Yeah. Um, I don't know. You know, one of them got two boys left. He died, you know. Then he kept metal scrap.
Oh, Olkin you're talking about. Oh, me, he's the height. You're talking about Olkin. He was horrible. That's correct. He was hiding. And find that saying, don't drop there, say we'll leave you alone. He said, ain't gonna die, ain't gonna die. Are they pretty big enough? They're pretty big. They're pretty big. I guess you all do more business I think. different. But it's a different type of operation. But what are some of the ways you used to go collect for Federation? Federation? I used to go collect for the synagogue, the play of the Jews. I was doing a little work on that too. Oh really? Oh heck yes, many times I had to go out and certain people gave me a I used to take a bunch of car to go after the homes.
We said, well that's the problem. We still got that problem now. I don't bother with it anymore. It was surprising how many dogs. Do they still collect when they go for shoulders? Do they have to visit them? Sometimes when you get a bad one, the reason why they're dropping is they don't pull the animal out. What used to happen? We used to carry my books. real salary then so you can't pay, you know. Do you feel that it was less like a business before than it is now? No, it's running now more like a business than it did then. It's running more like a business now.
What about the Jewish school? Did you have any involvement in the Yiddish school when it was here? In the 30s? Early 20s? Yeah, sure. The Folk Shuler. Oh, sure. I was a committee with Mr. Lewis. I'm talking with Jake Goldman again. Tell me about Dallas when you came. When I came to Dallas Dallas had about 65 population And the state car was owned by horses I thought it was full in the cars by horses That only lasted about a year and a half Then they went to Lexington in 1912 I think And that lasted for many years. And the Jewish population was located some of North Dallas off of Caroline Street, Alamo, And the rest of us, most of us was leaving South Dallas.
Because the higher class was leaving, any class in that way, like Sanger Brothers was leaving, he and Kenneth were leaving South Dallas, uh, Pollock, and then most of the conservative Jews, or the folk, just moved in too, you know, mixed with them. And the pavement was as far as, on the harvest trees, as far as grand. Above grand was no pavement. Go all the way through. Forks and colonial, no pavement at all. When the modern day had a little problem with getting your house, otherwise you couldn't get by that time. That's where it was. The white people lived to the self. I'm talking about the Jewish people.
I know the reform, they went in business by the way. Like Sangha, Harris and Seppurts, Yen Ken, they were the pioneers. They were in business at the time. Were they already reformed? They were conservative. They were conservative. I mean, they were reformed, I mean. They were reformed. Because they used to close on Yom Kippur and everything. But, every store on the High Holiday, E.M. Kern, Jim LaMarcus, Sengel, Breyfus, Sam Dishberg, everything was closed. everything was closed. You think it was a house, you couldn't find nobody in the town because people didn't go shopping. That was correct. That was welcome. Later on, now we can talk now.
You want to know how the Jewish people live, you know. You asked me a question out of the house the Jewish how much difference between now and then Well we got better people today I might as well tell you Some of them maybe went play but what they do away from playing God knows you know I wouldn't press them. That last, by 1960 and 1970, they start changing over. Old timers got away and they wasn't recognizing the younger generation. That was, we live in a better world actually. Because they come in from the season, they told everything to make a back to the garden side, what they do, you know.
I don't want to use the language for the deed, but they say, we are embarrassing if I would say it, but I ain't going to say that, like that. But after that, you know, the children grow up and they ignore the father of what they did and they went in better direction in life, you know. And that's what it went on at that time. In 1920, there were lots of parliamentials. A doctor by name Evans, he was a dentist, a dollar dentist, he charged a dollar for a visit. He organized the Klu Klux. You want to know that, I think? Yeah, sure. Klu Klux Klan, certainly.
All of the Klu Klux stand and spread like a fire in Texas. We had a fellow by the name of Zeke Marvin. He was a drugist man. Supposed to be an intelligent man. He was a good friend of mine. He owed my phone drugs and we sell him bread. He become the treasurer. And everybody was put in a dollar. I think when he brought a couple of clookbooks, he had two million dollars and they didn't have nothing to show for him. He kept all the money, bought the Dreyfus building. He bought all the property. He didn't mind that time. Then he quit him. But the one poor cop in the clerk's looks was Jim Ferguson, Governor Ferguson, you heard about his name?
Yes. He brought a couple of clerk's looks and said, we're not going to have a clerk in Texas, but I'll tell you how bad it was. They busted singles, the actual block singles. Singers had a whole city in retail in the block singles. Why did they do that? and they broke out of them, told them not to buy from Jews. That's all, that's what they do. And if they did it, they hated them. You know, they took out the Jewish people, weep them and everything else. The law was, I think most of the police, all the law was involved in it. In 19... In 1922 they elected a sheriff, a Clifford Sheriff.
It's called a Marshall was his name. But the way we stood in, stood in good with him. They had a picnic here. A mosque, he owned all the property. If he would stick to his property instead of getting into politics, he'd give it away. He was a millionaire then the other day. didn't really had all the property before I think the night broke in that sense of we got in a party and then a picnic was called a muscle at his ranch about 30 40-ton people and they called us one over you got any buns to give them we got stuck at the fairgrounds that was in October we had about 30-ton buns on hands we got to throw away we gave it to him and we become a member they thought music artists.
We couldn't, they didn't buy the hobbies, we could do anything we want. I like that kind of stuff. We had to hire even a clook rock to work for us. Why? Because he wouldn't buy any bread from us. We had a clook, we put a clook rock on, as long as I've been known, and he was a frontman for us, for chefs, for governments. But his first clook was up and fired him the same day. He was so bad he wouldn't do nothing. You paid him for nothing. But he knew he was one of the haters. He took out people with him. In 24 we fired, I remember that very well.
I had the pleasure of doing it. Jewish Shepherds hiding, he didn't know what to do. He said, I'll tell him. His name was Warren. I said, Warren, you fired today, yesterday. He said, what do you mean? I said, you fired, I told you, you work not good. I'll never forget. Jews had the guts to tell them where to go because we all suffer under that. They broke all the Jewish people in the other time. It was horrible. The final mine up in the cliff. The heart was in the cliff still pretty strong when I went in business there. But in three years time I converted and thinking like I did and they were eaten out of my hands I not bragging that the actual fact of that I told you they gave me a banquet six enough people at the Baker Hotel Outstanding citizen When the clerk was done they were the ones who used to be strong members Later on I used to tease them after they got away from me.
How did you do that? How did you feel you did that? I used to start doing some community work. Yeah, we gave myself and Jesus the Golden Memorial, Sir Austin Pierce, the oldest name, Jesus. You may remember him too. The parents and sisters association come to us, they need about 4,000 sandwiches a week to give away for bread. No, it's 10,000 a week. If we play for two years, we give them bread to take care of the arm privilege for two years. Of course, I guess about three, four hours a month, but we don't, you know. I don't, we've done lots of other things. Like, you know, clearly in 1931 they built an addition in the Cliff Temple Baptist Church.
When the father come to me, he said, Jake, we need, we got the money for seats. I give enough money, buy 600 seats, chairs, you know. And I start working with the meds hospital, you know. I've done lots of work for that hospital, but later on I didn't make no distinction. I worked in all of them. Matthews, Baylor, Sympoli. The last one I worked for was Pratina when they built. So as long as you did something for them, they knew you were Jewish, that didn't make any difference? They were happy even though they were planners? They elected me chairman of the regime and it was bankruptcy.
They defied the hospital. Were all these people members of the Ku Klux Klan, even though they were leaders in the community? community? There was. I knew which one was or not. Now I'll tell you the good part about it after I made friends. In 1983, Rabbi Gold, April Gold called me. Jay Goldman, said, what you got in mind Rabbi? He said, you're the ambassador for the Jewish people. He called me best though I ain't kidding about it I said something happened I said the civil chef in the play time to play the clook looks and it is the worst yet and he told me exactly what's going on I called my boys my friends in Oakley but you see they all come to Oakley I called them and you know what the answer was They had a meeting with him They told him they'll put some feather and oil and bread, maybe they'll lift down the hood.
Ten of the people they called, the one who was head of the Goodwill Star Company, they had a bank, Oakleaf Bank, others, saw us, Matthews, Kim Dugan, a bunch of like, they called up and Marvin Love, they called him and they had to call these people and these people told me if you don't leave you put some fellows on the town and burn you get the devil out of here. And I called him up and he was so happy he didn't know what to do with it. He was afraid something was going to happen, you know. Now, how did they actually get rid of the Ku Klux Klan?
You said that the governor did something. The governor was the one. What did he do? He outlawed him. Okay. He outlawed him. I heard the governor was impeached after that. But he ran his back and she was there. Ferguson, yeah, was impeached. Yeah, Ferguson, she was. But he'd done the greatest job for the Jewish people of the state. He outlawed him. He told me, put him in jail. I said, you know, you have to put it organized, it can't be hooded. You know, he said, all right, put him in jail. Right now they're from around the United States don't do a thing, right now. Right.
Right. Now I dedicated myself to do this kind of work and I was lucky enough to get enough friends to work with me, you know, you can do it by yourself, you know. Right. I can do nothing by myself, we can do a lot together. Right. Am I right? Right. But I always took the lead, you know, and I knew how to handle myself among non-Jewish people. Yeah. You don't appease him. You appease him, they're one of you. If you're right, you tell him, you're right and if you're wrong, you tell him you're wrong, but don't appease him. How long has that been? I never appeased to none of them.
I'll give you a little example. In 1943 I talking about 1943 and I had lots of problems My wife was trigger was in the Mayo Clinic so my brother using it He gave me three months to leave for Bodrum because she lived ten years and my brother passed away in three months I was there with Bodrum at the same time. I come back, I want to resign as chairman of the finance for the building, was he going to build a Cliff Sherman Conference? And they say no, finally I decide. Then he picks a committee of five of them to raise the money. The reason I'm bringing it up, I want to tell you, you cannot piece him.
Well, we went into the banker, you know, clear banker, all these others, the man I mentioned a while ago, and three more besides myself. I'm the chairman. The main, the first thing he brings up was a fellow by the name, uh, Kett, M. Kett, you remember him? And a fellow named Breen, Dan Breen, they had good little props on the cliff. He said, them Jews never give nothing. I said, let me put it in that basis, I'm talking to you now. You've got lots of Jews, bad ones, but they've got a whole lot more non-Jews, bad ones. I said, don't put it in that basis, We're not going to raise money on that basis.
Don't put down two people when you've got time to triple. And I had him told how bold it never was. And actually, he didn't raise nothing. I went to the front and got $10,000. He couldn't. That was filiation, you know. He probably could not click bank with filiation. Always was. But he couldn't get nothing. After he got through, I said, you remember what I told you? I didn't even ask for cash. Cash wouldn't give you a dime. couldn't help yourself. That's the reason I say if you appear to me they won't over you. I was always straight with him. I think I got many friends anybody in town today.
I'm talking non-Jewish people. I know them all. But anytime you appear to me You learn, you learn yourself. Am I right or wrong? Yes, you're right. You're absolutely right. I am right now. You're talking about dealing with the non-Jewish community. Did you get involved with the non-Jewish community to change, so that they would change the image of Jesus? I think I changed a lot. Yes, I think so, but did you think about... They wouldn't give me all the honors in the city of Dallas. I had more honors than any one man leaving. I ain't kidding about it. I'm not black enough. I didn't ask for it, none of it.
But they knew I was Jewish, they knew I was not Jewish. It sure would help the Jewish people, bound to help the community. I didn't do it for myself, I did it for the majority. But you got to pay to, if you have a bad image, you're winning. If you go straight, you go straight, they're people. Did you, before you got involved though, did you think in terms of changing the Jewish image in the non-Jewish eyes? Yeah, even before I got involved, I was already doing some work way back in the 20s. Before I got in, I was doing lots of work already then in the community.
I done lots of work then already. Because we happened to be in a field where we dealt with non-Jewish people, we didn't make a living for the Jewish alone. We got 34 of the rats running around the streets, you know. We deal with every person here. It gave me a chance to know all the people who we deal with, you know. Jones, Longwood, wherever they may be. And they wouldn't like us, they wouldn't sell our product. But we were very lucky. I mean, we treated them right, you see. But we knew lots of people through that channel. Yeah. See, that gives us a chance not to meet.
We met the public all the way through it that way. When you take care of every part of the town, north, south, west, east, you know, you deal with all of them. We want all the stores, 90% of it at least. Therefore, we never want anybody to keep us out because we're Jewish. We build that image in that way, you see, that's where it goes. And some Jewish people today stay in the way of playing. So you got to speak up. Yeah, right. Last time you told me, or before, you told me about Mr. Roebuck when he came to Dallas, ran a jingy? A jingy!
A jitney. A jitney. Okay. I let him have a hundred dollars. Yeah. And the one that you think he paid for five hundred dollars and Nicola Raij, on Arbister, So he had the Oliver Territory, from Forest to downtown, and forward, back and forth. Were they divided in areas, is that it? Yeah each one picked his own territory you know That where he went from Nicholas out of town Okay But how far south did they go Like with him From 470 to downtown And what about the people that lived farther south than Forest They were somewhere else, I guess. In other words, that was another territory and they had to go to another Jitney.
Yeah, they found Luke Giddey. Yeah, Luke Giddey. I knew his brother, he tried one too. He was late on and got mad I went to you. Don't call him, I think he's dead now, I know. I see. Well now, Sanger Brothers at one time owned the Carlines. Were you here when they owned that? What Carlines? The streetcar. No. That was towards the 19th, the end of, that was really before 19th. Sanger Brothers never owned it. Okay. I can tell you that. Let's see, Strickland, if I was on the streetcar. Strickland owned. at one point earlier. Yes, they said Pauly. No, they said Pauly, but Strickland was there.
I can tell you, you may be aware of the name, but we didn't. I still remember the name. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Because I knew in person, that's it. I see. When did they stop with the Jitney? When did that, how long did that last? They stopped with the Jitney, I think, by 19... by 1916 or 17. I think he passed a loan, a half loan. We had a fellow named Blankishy was mayor of Dallas. He was a Klugrug mayor. For the reason I know he was a Klugrug mayor, we had a fellow named Helmut Rosenthal. He was the city water chemist, you know. He got fired when he got in power.
In 1920 to 1924, we had a group of male. I'm telling you, the time was in bad shape. You know, that's when he got in the bank, and he was still offering like that. We made up a particle who goes to make bread. To help east, you know. Helmut myself worked the whole year on the baker to work it out. And later on that's where he made a living out of it and his son is in that business now. Louis McAdams, you ever heard of him? Yes. That's what he did. Now what does Mr. McAdams do? He sells bakers all over the country stuff where Helmut started I see He a good mixer Is that supposed to record too I do want to talk a little bit about my own family.
I met my wife, Faye, Frances, you may remember. I met her at the double bedding. My both sister got married one night, Miss Nathanson, Miss Coleman got married at Daddy's house. But Texans arrived, that's why. What year? That was in 1917, January 2nd, I'll tell you what day. and she met, my wife met Rebecca Coleman. They come in the same ship, you know, same boat from Europe. Same time, that's where she met her. She invited her. She was about 6 and a half years old. I met her on 2nd of February, January. I was engaged to her the 3rd, 17th. She was about 6 and a half.
I met her on March 6th, 1918. She was a wonderful girl, I'll tell you that. She gave me four children and actually she was the boss of the children raising, but I was too busy at work. We gave them education what we didn't have to each one got a scholarship. She graduated A&M, graduated Texas U, and then I graduated University of California. When I graduated from Texas U, my wife passed away that summer and he refused to go to get the law degree to Texas. He said, I want to leave you by myself. He went to SMU and got a degree. But she was behind me stronger.
I'll tell you why. After I worked there, we got married. She was going to go and beg me in 21. She said, if you died good for the other fellow, why don't you do it for yourself? She kept on having him and finally I did. And when Sirach I told town people at the banquet they gave me in 1958, she would deserve more care than I did in life And if any person thinks well he the King B and he better happy than I do he hasn made it Anytime you see a successful businessman, he's better happy. I told 1,000 people, I got a record from there, I'll play some of these days.
And that's what I always believe. Anytime you see a hard one fails, that means she's got as much to say as he has. But you see a successful man is better after the one who helps him. I think that's the true picture. Show me one of them, her husband, the success if his wife is not strong behind him. That's your success too. You tell I'm not quite safe. Okay. That's stupid. Okay. How do you see how you reared your kids as to how your kids are rearing their kids? Do you see much change? No, not much. I felt that was an image that I got in and Ed, I didn't do the same thing that led him the same way because Ed left me.
Yes. She left me too early. Yes. I got fine children, got fine husbands, I got four kids that got children. That's wonderful. But they didn't have any change in the way they... Nothing much, nothing much. They followed the same system and they never had no problems either. Do you think you were strict with the kids? No, I never laid my finger on none of the kids, never. Did you... She was the only, she was telling what to do. Did you have strong limits for them or did they ever press their limits? No, we never put anything on to, nothing at all. If you put strong limits, that's the time they wouldn't do it that way.
You ever thought about that? That was my policy. Sometimes I let Faye go handle them, she knew how to handle it. Because like I told you, I was a busy man that time, very chillin'. Like I built a house, you know, clearly a big home she built it. Do you think that the lifestyles of your kids are different than your lifestyle? A little bit, bound to be you know after all. Like Anita believes in Napa and stuff like that she followed that system and they don't Gaze out. She's a scout of kids. That's her last wife. You ever met her? She was a fine girl.
And here there's lots of community work. Lots of it. She's now a charter in the state. I couldn't explain what that means, but she was in the... Last week was about 500 women from all the states and President Daniels was the principal speaker, governor. I mean, he saw him as the principal speaker. What about some of the Jewish organizations and how they've changed? Were you involved with B'nai B'rith, for example? Not as much as I should. Was there any particular reason or did you just give it to you? I was, you can do so much in life. I thought if I could be an ambassador for the Jewish people, I'd do something for the community.
And I was ambassador all the United States. I was elected eight times three years serving the board of national. I ain't talking about Dallas, where they got the five, six thousand members. And if I wouldn't make a good impression of those people, I wouldn't be elected over the years. I'm talking about national. Yes. Tell me if you take California, New York, Chicago, you'd name them all, I'd be never where else, you know. Because we hold a million different places. The executive committee holds a million different places every year. And the last one I told you, they honored me to give me that plaque, you know.
You're talking about the American Bakers Association? The Bakers Association. which I was having to be out in 19... I was vice president that time in 1937 where I charged the National Convention, 5,000 people. That's pretty good for a Jewish boy. It's very good. It's very good. There's only maybe half a dozen non-Jewish people there. I was active in all the New Yorkers and Chicago never got there yet, you know, some of them. Because I was my, I think if I can contribute anything in that line, I'm doing something for our people. Because if I would do something wrong, they would kick me out the first day.
You follow me? Yes. And that's the reason I couldn't devote time for everything, you know. That was my I took that direction I still in that direction Yes Were you ever involved in Jewish Community Center On Pocahontas The, you know, the Federation, or the YMHA. It was the YMHA in the 19... early 1920s. Yeah, I was involved. But if you want to know my Federation, I started about 18 years involved in the executive committee. I guess I was involved. Yeah, I imagine you were. I'll never forget about eight, ten years. The last time I saw that I was an executive committee. And they brought up a fellow's name, an old $500.
And I didn't happen to get the $500 from there. And they said they haven't paid a nickel. I've been not named that man. But I went to see him. I said, how could you let me down? He's velting you out. And being that, he couldn't raise his head. I said, you haven't paid that bill. I got a check for him that time for $500. I didn't want to take no more pleasure. Yes, my father was involved. I was involved for many years. What about family service or when you've seen some newcomers come compared to you? Were you involved in helping to resettle any of the people that you had in the African that.
I, near the time when I was in business, I knew that much time. What about the campaigns? When you worked on the campaigns, what's the first campaign you remember working on in Federation? I got, when Mrs. I can't call her name now, she got shot. In the early twenties, I think. Rose, was it Rose? She was a caseworker, I know who you're talking about. No, she was the president. She was a running at that time. She was a running. And she got shot? She got shot. I can't call her name for anything because I want to tell you her name, but yeah, she got shot.
That wasn't Hollander, was it? No, no. She got a familiar name, and I can't call her name right now. Do you remember the years? That was in the 20s. Okay. I was on the board that time, small scale. Okay. We raised maybe fifteen thousand dollars a year. How was that About how many were on the board and how was it raised We had only had about eighteen on the board at a time Yeah And the way we used to do it take pleasures like we do now I done that work I done lots of it Yeah I went out after morning many times. Yeah. When you see me, they say hi, some of them.
Yeah. No, I went out lots. I worked with Desma, I worked with A.A. Kaplan, I worked with lots of them. We worked together on all these things. Now, did the board just take cards or did you involve more people to take cards? Well, the boat used to pick up some people. One time, I bought the tie now. They were voting something for our people. You know, so many reforms, so many... And I'm not going to name them now. Two of our people wouldn't vote because they didn't want to antagonize the other side. Yeah. Jay Goldman had guts enough to vote and he had two more to go with him and the two house-training citizens, good workers, didn't have guts to face.
And we won that time. We had to have some, we beat him by one vote. It used to be awful bad one time, the reformers take cover. They never gave enough money but they never would, they always had more. Well, they always, we gave more money, but they always had more people on the board, the reform. How is it they had more people on the board and they gave less money? How is it they had more power? Because they had the sales at that time, some other people they had enough money at that time. But some of them, they don't come in, we show them up pretty good, but that time they, they started in that way they would control it all for years.
Wasn't that one year? I think about 15 20 years because i was on view of minority all the time but i'm not anymore i know that yeah we were minority for about 15 years is my memory of life uh you said that that was when we wanted to give some kind of charity always blocks it you know ah okay that's what i'm speaking of it okay okay what about the things that they did want to give to you said Did you give to the reformed congregation then? They want something for death, but they wouldn't give to us. That's what happened. And the last time we honored the 15-pound dollars to a friend of mine, we dropped dead in my arms Herman Morrison I don know if you ever heard his name I remember Yes he was a good one He was a farm boy He asked for 15 times now for UGA 15 times that time And we out of him, he made a speech and he got still in bed.
I walked down with him on the steps. You remember the old building? With Henry Miller. He passed away, my friend, too. He was a little stage, you know. And he dropped dead right in the arms. Never called for his wife. She showed up. He was one of the guys who wanted to do something, but most of them was ice cold. I don't want to name him because he was, Orbit Moussel was a really old-run man. He didn't look for a form or conservative or other. He wanted to do something for humanity. But somehow it was ice cold. anything going to give something, no, they'll block it if you could.
Do you remember the year that was? I believe in the 30s. I think I was in Pennsylvania about 34, 35. If I could find him, I knew him from the first day I got to Dallas in 1911 I met him. What did he do? Paper. In Dallas paper company, you call yourself. What were some of the things that the Reform Group wanted to support? What was their type of thing? What was the conflict? They supported their, like in the Union, the conservative, the reform, the college, whatever you call it, stuff like that. But they always find a way for that, but they wouldn't let us have that.
Now what were some of the things that the conservative group wanted to support that the reform? The conservative probably one of the forms like the Tom Mottare or some of the Meshgorkham is coming in and asking for money, you know, and stuff like that. That's what they want to do, but the forms didn't recognize that. They were fighting against it. Anytime they see the jewelry bill, they thought it was horrible. That's where it was. They changed now. They got no control more. Now, did just the committee, just the board go out and solicit for funds or did the board ask other people for a card?
No, we used to have people to go with us. We used to pick up a bunch of each one of them, took so many people out. Same system today. Same. But in the smaller scale, now it's getting bigger scale. What is it now, about three and a half million? Yeah, more. The system has changed now. Was it hard to collect money then? Oh, how? How? You think it's easier now? Oh, sure. Money was awful hard to get. You had to depend on fewer people. Like, you go to Axe of Lusk, he'll give you the limit. You run to Harald Sikosfer, he'll give you all the good, you know.
Jack Follin, that's one thing we'll do, you know. Yes. When we build a synagogue, I got a help with the synagogue too. I got a hundred thousand dollars in Axel Lovsky, for the synagogue. And I'm in the foundation now. We give synagogue money every year. We give five thousand dollars a year every year. I'm the chairman of the foundation. I put on, when Judy Shepard's the way I put on the salary we're in the zone. And Ted Harris is on the, until Mark was the real end of it. When, during those days, what was the attitude of the Reform community to the Orthodox and the conservative?
What was the attitude of the Orthodox to the Reform in these early days? The Orthodox to Reform was always nice, but the Reform always keep their heads up and clean up, and it was different. How do they feel about their Jewishness? They have changed now a whole lot. You think I've handled the middle of the union where he organized his temple. He's a good man. They're all together now. They come down to earth now. But years ago there was someone just, I will say some of the people who say I'm good, he and Cameron's a good man. To effect on the high holidays. I remember the high holidays on Jackson Street, he's coming in Kippur to Ashkod and said go to the temple.
You found that I was speaking about six or five years ago. Yeah. He's come to our synagogue in Jackson Street. Well, I shouldn't say where the temple used to be on, over in Plakhanas. and he used to go to the economy and Lawrence Kent did the same thing that he used to come to us in the Park and Aikon. Everything in Kipa I like that And yet they were always members of Temple Were they ever members of Sherith No No Wait a minute Lawrence came was He paid the Jews. I think we used to get 40 dollars a year. That time was a big... But he liked to get more.
He could get more. I think Greenberg was the rabbi for them at the time, in the early 20s. Do you remember his name? I've read his name. He was, he came in 1914 I believe. Yeah, I remember something too. Yeah, he was, oh yeah. What about the, their own attitudes towards being Jewish? Did you feel that they... I think for a long time their attitude was not bad, but they've changed a whole lot now. They milled down to about 95% I think. Maybe we got 5% left in them. They changed, I can see it. What are some of the ways you see the change in the reformed congregation as far as you know people in the reformed group?
I think they realize now they didn't like the idea to have Israeli land but now they can see like I told I told the other day wasn't very long ago a month ago I told a fella a reformed Jew got a big job now with the government. I said let me tell you something now you stand next to the big man in Boston you you know you see him have a day if something was to happen to Israel you you'll go along with him all of us. The boy respects us now because we got our own land and anytime we lose that you're gonna lose too, don't you think because you think you're different.
You're not any different Jay Goldman or the rest of the people. I said, the greatest thing ever happened for American Jews, we got land in Israel. Am I right or wrong? You're right. He said, I think you're exaggerating. I said, I'm not exaggerating at all. I'm telling you about exactly what I say. I ain't gonna give you a last name, you know what I'm talking about. What did he say after that? I guess, sir, I said, you can help all that, but you haven't given yourself to help me. I talked to him about it. You see, I go, he comes to lunch there and he's in town, and I go there Monday Wednesday and Friday to Donald Club And there we got around the table I sitting here and he says on this side and the front of me he says on this side there twelve people See the people come single and they want to take up the table And I called him aside and talked to him about three, four weeks ago.
I said, you can help a lot. And I don't think you exaggerate yourself. And see, you ain't nothing to try and help. I said, I let him know how he was his wedding, too, and he got married. He got malitated in 1942. I wasn't as well. He's malitated five years ago. And I told him, I said, I remember he was the same shape as I was, you know, because he made big wealth, you know, because he had part on the left side. But that's when I talked to him not lying. When I feel that way, you feel the same way? That's very interesting. What about the attitudes of the conservative and the orthodox Jews?
I think they're very close together. That's not a difference. I don't see any difference anymore. Their service I got, you know, I've been a member of them for a long time, and they started as early, you know. Oh, you remember Teferoth Israel as well as Sheriff Israel? I did for many years. I dropped out about a year ago because I was sick when I was, I was laying in bed about six months. I didn't think I'd make it. I still need some more weight. I lost too much weight. And I don't see any, their service is any different than ours. Might or little, not enough to make it easier.
Of course right now, ours is changing lots, you know. But they are serving the same thing. Even serving the money, same thing like they are. Nothing's all different. How is it you decided to join the Ferrisal, which is Orthodox as well as Sheriff Israel? What was the other thing? I had a plan in my house for about twenty-some-how years ago. I paid him about twenty years and give him a membership. I said, I'll give you a membership. I don't know what's the difference. It was called. Yeah, yeah. I just dropped out a year ago because I didn't know I'd ever make it because I was sick.
back before the doctor. I haven't seen a doctor. I come out after the 20th 1977 I only seen a doctor one time at that time just for a checkup I made up my mind with my own doctor Do you think, or can you think of anything else that you'd want to add, as far as your own reflections about the Jewish community and the growth of it? I think we've got better Jewish people living out of the community. You don't see them getting in trouble. I remember the time he was getting told. In what way? Well I was in the country for the first time in 1933 and we had one Jew if I wouldn't be on down there when Henry Miller was on the same Jew with me he would be some was down there.
In jail? In jail. We had some bad people and we had to work like devils to get him out. What happened after you got them out? Did you talk to them? Oh yeah, I talked to them a whole lot after that. What did you say to them? I told them to be a good man. I said, you're trying to hurt our people. That's what I told them. And what did they respond? You told me the war? I don't want to mention the man's name on the record. Yeah, right. I'll tell you if you cut it off, I'll tell you. Later. Now, he would, now we done one job, good reward, an innocent Jewish fellow would go to jail, they're trying to blackmail him.
And we got, we got him out, we're going to indict the people trying to fight him. And I know myself, I woke up loud, but we finally, we proved it. But he was innocent and he was trying to blackmail him, somebody was going to get ten thousand dollars out of him. Why did he get that? We had to, I was involved a lady and a man who was trying to collect from the man ten thousand dollars. The lady was trying to claim something reported wasn't so, and we wasn't going to put them in jail and say the black woman, that fellow, you know. That man happened to be a Jewish fellow, I'm speaking of him.
Now did they do that because they knew he had the money? Yeah, he had lots of money. It had nothing to do with his being Jewish or not? No. That was incidentally. He had this money, that's all. She figured she'd pick up his money, but she didn't pick it up. When we got through, she lost her job even, a big job. Because I went to the top where she worked and he fired her. I says, I said, Halsey, you're not going to have that kind of people in your office because your reputation is going to be in a stake. He fired her out there. I said, it doesn't always know people.
I knew every one of them had a dozen gas telephone. Well, we in the, in my business I would get plenty of business. Well, what about, you said that Jewish people are better today than they were. They're different altogether, different type of people. We got better citizens. Are they more ethical? Yeah, by far, by far. But we had, I don't know if I want to let him record that, we got, we had two people. I'm not going to name them, I'll tell you what happened. We had two people. One day a fella was going to lose his home. He wasn't auctioning it off in court.
And Axel Blosky went down there. He was going to spend $8,000 to pay him off with back taxes and buy the home. There's two gentlemen from our race come in. He said, they're going to raise this. That's their living. And he says, I'm giving him you're going to raise it. He says, we don't care who he is, we're going to get ours. I got to give my town dollars to stay away from Bittenhouse. You ever believe it? I said, it actually happened. I was a very good man, you know that. Yes, yeah. So he got his home back for the gang. Yeah, he got his home back and he had to pay them two guys and two guys wealthy people.
After you cut it off, I'll tell you who they are. Was this in the 30s? Was this during the... No, that was about 15 years ago, 18 years ago. They had a better reputation than they died than I would have the reputation. Did the man pay Ike back eventually? No, he didn't ask. He just gave it to him? He gave it to him. He had five children. Ike's done lots of that kind of thing. What about when the guys came here from Europe, when they first came, how did they get their starts in business Well they start they start You don have anything to get a job you know Do they get jobs first yeah sure they get loans first well my little ones they could get a time but they they started nothing some ones they moved up that's it it was total what about the did the Hebrew Free Loan Association play on it you're a big enough to take care of all yeah they done pretty good I remember that I came out of.
That's a good organization of China interest, you know that. Yes, yes. I know about it because I've been a member for 30 years, probably. What are some of the other things that you've observed over the years about the Jewish population? Well, they don't live as much in the ghetto they used to use, and that helps because you got to mix with people, get along with people, and I think most of our people are doing this today. Do you think we have as strong a Jewish community as we did say in 1925? I think we have stronger now. In what way? If you didn't have a strong community, how could you raise the money for a nation?
That's proven right there. That's the answer. What about just Jewish living? What about some of the traditions that people are not doing? Well, it's traditionally, it's looking like changing like anything else in this world. What about Jewish education? I think we find a given much of the one who died now. You think I got grandchildren, they go to Hebrew school, they go to Sunday school. Each one of them carried them, they read the Bible pretty good. Did you leave your kids to go to Hebrew school? Yeah. The Hebrew school? Sure, they went to Hebrew school, too. He used to go to able school. He went to Sunday school.
I used to tell him Dr. Lefkowitz because I was working. I was living close to the temple. And Lefkowitz used to bring him home in the mud in Howard Street. One time he got stuck. He was a good man. Yeah, but it all went through. Did they go to temple for religious school or did they go to Sherry? No, they went to Sheldon. But Lefkowitz brought him home. Yeah. At that time they went to Temple, was that it? Just for a while, then I changed it over. That was in 25, 26, somewhere. He was about five years old. I got a call from the old gentleman Alex Senga himself Oh this is 1923 Yeah Okay He said Jake I want you to put a fellow to work He never been a baker.
He got involved. He done something in my own store, in my own business. Got to get, he swiped about 800 dollars and sent to jail. I went and got him out of jail, but I can put him back in our business. He wants to go to work anywhere you put him, but I want you to give him a change. Because I took him out of the jail. I didn't want him. He just come over from the old Cesar to farm you, you know. And I put that fellow to work for three years for us while he was going there. He was going to law school.
Oh, he was one of the best workers I ever had. And he's a big man today. I think he's still alive. I didn't have him. He got in the plumbing business. But that's the kind of man Alex Sanger was. So you put him to work? Yeah, he worked three years for us. And he put himself through law school and went into practice? Yeah, and then went into business. Never had... did he pay Sanger back his $800? Sanger didn't want it. He just wanted to help the man. He didn't ask for the money. He didn't feel like... After I took him out, nobody would give him a job.
And I wasn't afraid to give him a job because he's not wrong when I ever done it. And some other comics I put to work and worked out pretty good and some one didn't. Did you ever have other experiences with Jewish men that had been in trouble and needed jobs and where you put them to work or just generally? No. I never had much trouble. That's the only trouble I told you a while ago. But this fellow was, he was a very fine young man, but he got together with the fellow on the back, didn't realize what he was doing. He was not that kind of man.
And the old man seen it and he didn't feel like, you see, he stayed in jail, I think, 60 days, he took him out. Was Alexander active in the community? Yeah, very much. And what was? Anything that helped the community. Was he Jewish-minded as well? Oh yeah, he was Jewish mine. The whole family was Jewish mine. I knew the whole family. What did they do besides I assume they did Federation They worked on Federation They were very good very good at anything Charter they were we lived in Chartered I understand that many of the young Jewish men went to work and many of the young Jewish ladies went to work for Sanger's.
They were, that was a good place where they were able to find work. Oh yeah, that's the trouble there. Too many were working for him. Too many was walking down the floor, wouldn't do nothing, you know. He was very loose with the people. He was very good, he was very good to the people. Now, we carry everything now. I will say something. Larry married a fine girl, and neither married a fine man, Charles Marcus, and Atlas married a good man, Morris Feld. He keeps himself, he called me dead all the time, I talked to him about once a week. In fact, they asked me for a few minutes to come in, because my grandchildren come in from Michigan, and from Oklahoma, they've been there, but I would not know this year last year, and this time I wouldn't be with Anita.
Do they still come to you for advice? Well, I guess they told him several times when he was here. They don't even know the old man. They might be good to me. And my grandchildren, the same way. They know what to do with me. They call me every day, the last kids call me every day, and the next kids in town, they call me all the time and come by. Have you spent a lot of time with your grandchildren? Yes, usually about once a week together, then we go out together, you know, to come here. When they were small, did you spend a lot of time with them?
Oh, yeah. Did you do a lot of activities? Oh, yeah. They know, you know, they all called me Jake and I don't call them grandpa. Yeah. I don't know if you know that. Nobody, you can call me Jake, because nobody called me. I've been knowing that for Jake Goldman said Mr. Goldman. What do your kids call you? Jake? Your kids call you Jake, too? Yeah. Ethel, so that's a piece of talent and they all found him. But did they start that when they were adults already? Or when they were still kids? No, they were still kids. They were just dead in my name myself. Do you feel like a patriarch?
Huh? Do you feel like a father of the complete clan of all of the family? Yeah, I think I was because, like I told you, The old family over here. Now we cut out for years, we said, we said about hundreds. And I come here with only one year gone. Now we can talk about how many gone now. Are they on your family? Yeah, sure, they're on my knees. They're just nieces, you know. Like I said, I was responsible for the old family being in the United States. And therefore we put a close to the way too. How many relatives would you say you have in Dallas?
How many are in the extended family? Well, let's see. June's Gorman had two children. Sam Gorman had two. then Bertrand Anderson had three and Rebecca got three. That's Coleman. Bertrand Anderson got three and Jaime Goldman had four. I would give you Avery Goldman. and we got three boys and Mary's one there too. And we put the grandchildren together and got put in us. Did Julius say how many? He's a nephew of mine. I'm talking about them now. I was talking about the first generation Or the second generation I couldn tell you about them Okay So Jews got about four kids I guess Which one got two three you know Mm-hmm.
They were gone before. So you've got a very large family. Yeah, we've got a large family in the house, yeah. Are they all active in the Jewish community? Are most of them active in the Jewish community? Yeah, most of them active, yeah. Do you find any particular reason for that? Were their parents active or do they just feel strongly about the English? They feel strongly. They feel strongly. They're not the Jewish people. Do you think that that is what makes them, makes the difference in them working at the Jewish people? They're an option in business too. They're an option in business right today. They own it.
All this world they operate here. Mixed lots of people. That helps them stronger than that way. You can't stand to get them, get them, get them, it's in this world. You can't mix. Do you think it makes a difference in their Jewish identity? That doesn't hurt nothing anymore. It used to. We ain't got an anti-Semite in Dallas enough to talk about it. We got very good people. Dallas, we are blessed with good people. But I think the Jewish people are doing it to try and help ourselves not to do the right thing. I paid the way for him I don even take credit but I have paid the way for him I done with all of them Like I told you Rabbi Goldie called the best of them He was a good man You remember him?
Yes. Yes. Yes. I went to Haida with him in Europe. His father was a Rabbi. And you know the customer when a Rabbi lives down, what he do? What? I was five years old. And the river rises in a buggy or a whale, and all the members, they follow him for five miles, walk. I walk for five miles and told his daddy goodbye and never forget. That's the question. Used to be. Not quite. Did he go to Beirut in another town, is that it? Yeah, he left us, yeah. So even then they looked for better positions? Yes, sure. They was making much. They made the five dollars a week, it was a lot of money.
It was horrible, eh? It was different. Well, let me tell you something now. Those days, they didn't look for money. They believed in religion so much, but money was second ever. today is Monday first, early in second. That's good too. Because I got to, I think I've mentioned a statement out of Denny where a fellow used to be in business in foreign business you know And they used to give you service to And when he downed to Musaf, the walls could cry. I mean, you're a sincere man, you know. Today, they're sincere, but don't come. I think the money comes further than you come second.
I may be talking too much now. No, you're fine. I mean, that's religion. Even when I come here to Dallas, we had that kind of rabbis too, but I don't want money coming in first. Money was a big thing, though. Although one rabbis, in my memory, didn't have a contract within nine years, the rabbis, Shibaba, no contract. He was the only one without a contract? That's his first puppet. He didn't know what to do with me that Saturday. He made me stand by him the whole time. He'd come and told me he'd buy some money. I made a deal with him when his boys would buy me, so I gotta be there.
I said, I don't know where I'll be that time. It's a year and a half hour. Well, is there anything else you want to add? No. I think you're a wonderful lady. .