Jake & Hannah Meyers
Jake Meyers was born in Ballinger, Texas, in 1912, the son of a father who left Europe in 1903, sailed on the Rotterdam, and came to America with only a few dollars in his pocket. After a brief, unhappy time in New York, his father made his way to Galveston, where he was aided by the relief efforts associated with Rabbi Cohen and the Jewish Federation, which helped settle immigrants in towns across Texas. His father worked as a peddler out of Ballinger, at first with a pack on his back and later with a horse and wagon, before the family moved to San Antonio, Kyle, and finally Austin. Hannah's family came separately, her parents having met and married in New York before moving to Texas around 1903. Her father served as the shamus of the synagogue in Waco, where Hannah was raised in a poor but deeply observant home in which her mother kept kosher and celebrated every holiday.
Jake grew up in small Central Texas towns, remembering kosher tamales prepared by his mother, High Holy Day trips to Austin, and his father's role as a lay cantor who kept the Sabbath and built a sukkah each year. Hannah grew up in Waco, attended Baylor briefly before leaving so her brother could continue his education, and later trained as a secretary. Both experienced the divisions between the German Reform Jews and the Eastern European Orthodox, lines that softened over the years through youth activities and intermarriage among families. After Jake's military service in World War II, his brother-in-law Abe Jacobs learned of a store for sale in Atlanta, Texas, owned by Nathan Carroll, and the two bought it. Jake moved there in January 1946, and he and Hannah ran an apparel store in the small town.
In Atlanta, the Meyers were often the only Jewish family, and they traveled to Texarkana for services at the Reform congregation, where their children attended Sunday school and where Jake and their friends the Kaufmans gathered on Friday nights at a cafeteria for a Shabbat meal. Hannah faced open discrimination when local women's study clubs rejected her because she was Jewish, an experience she said hurt like a knife. Their daughter Mary and son Bill grew up navigating conversion attempts by Baptist neighbors and good-natured teasing, though Bill took pride in his Jewishness, refusing to eat ham at scout camp and once burning a Star of David in reply to a friend's cross. Jake became president of the local Lions Club, and the couple built lasting friendships while standing firm against prejudice throughout their many years in East Texas.
Full Transcript
Salado, Texas on July 28, 1979. And Mr. Meyers is from Atlanta, Texas, and has lived there for how many years, Mr. Meyers? 33 years. 33 years. How did you happen to come? Are your parents... Was your father the first generation that came from Europe? Yes. My father came in 1903, and he came to New York through the sponsorship of my uncle. And for some reason or another, my father didn't like New York, so he came to Texas and to Galveston, Texas. and I'm sure that it was Rabbi Cohen who was handing the refugees of those days, and at that time they sent people to different cities, especially to Fort Worth.
Why is it that he came to Galveston? How is it that your father decided to come to Galveston, Texas? Well, I'm not sure for that, because I started with him in Galveston, and I didn't know that he even came through New York. so therefore I found out well just recently my son Bill went to Washington and he picked up the manifest of the ship that my father came from Europe it was the Rotterdam and he came in 1903 and I believe he had $4.50 in his pocket when he had landed in the United States Do you remember other refugees coming to Galveston when you were a child?
Well, I think most of Texas refugees came through Galveston. and in fact I've known a number of families that came through Galveston in Central Texas in San Marcos Texas in Lockhart Texas in Austin they all 80 percent of them that I know of came through Galveston Do you know something about their experiences What happened after they got to Galveston Well, what I understand, Rabbi Cohen had a group that are sponsored by the Federation of the Jewish People of Texas. and what they would do, they would supply them with enough money and railroad fare to a city like Waco, San Antonio, Shreveport, Louisiana, and Fort Worth and Dallas, especially Fort Worth.
For some reason or other, they wanted to send quite a few of the Jewish families to the West in Texas, like a number of stores that I've noticed that came from these peddling days are the Levy brothers in Sweetwater, the Bermans in San Angelo, the Heidenheimers in Anson, Texas. Those are families that I know of, but of course there's hundreds of others. Do you, why did they come to these towns? How did they happen to come to these towns? I'm sure that I don't think they picked them on their own. They were peddlers and they had to get away from the ones that already were being used as peddling sections like Weatherford or Abilene and those places, so they sent them to a different direction like Ballinger, which is southeast of Abilene and east of San Angelo.
I think what the Federation had in mind is to have them settled in different sections so that they wouldn't be competing with each other. I think that is rude. How did you get to Atlanta? Well when I came out of the service my brother Abe Jacobs knew of a store in Atlanta and we decided to go in Partners and buy that store and I went there in 46 I had never heard of Atlanta either Was it a Jewish owned store Yes a man by the name of Nathan Carroll I don't know who was came from Russia I I think he came from Russia in 1938.
And then he had the store. He owned the store, and my brother-in-law, who was a salesman for a shoe company, knew him and decided that it would be a good buy for us, and so we decided to buy the store and I moved there after I got out of the service, which was in 1946, and I moved there January 21st. What was it like living in Atlanta at that time? What was the city like, or town? How big is it? No, no. The town at that time was 3,700 people. Wait a minute. Yes, I think it was either 2,700 people, I believe it was, instead of 3,700 people.
and of course there's been Jewish families lived there over the years. I don't know, but I believe Jefferson at one time was a very big, considered a big city for this area, and it would have been a real big city had it been nice to the railroads. However, at that time, the riverboat came from Shreveport to Jefferson, and all the goods were being shipped through this freeport of river traffic. And at one time, even Jefferson had a synagogue, and still the cemetery is being used by the old timers and people that came to Jefferson And then after from Jefferson a lot I moved to Atlanta Mount Pleasant Texarkana Pittsburgh which is all in the East Texas area How far are you from Texarkana?
26 miles. Are you south? South, yes. Highway 59 south is what we call it and 59 goes all the way to Houston. And how far are you from Houston? 268 miles. So that's a good... 6,000 miles. Yeah, that's a good ride. What was it like? How many Jewish families were living in Atlanta when you came to Atlanta? Well, we replaced the Carrolls, so when the Carrolls moved we were it. Well, living in a small town, naturally it's not easy to belong to any clubs, especially for the ladies that didn't have a chance of joining. You had to be Christian to belong to the clubs of that time.
I think since then they might be a little more liberal, but at that time they were not. What kind of clubs do they have in it? Well, they have, yeah, it was a women's study club, like, I mean, and the garden clubs. I don't know, what other, let's see, another social clubs like the Amity Club, I think that's a national women's professional club, I think it is. But it was not easy to join those clubs. In fact, at one time, I don't think my wife could have joined because one of our Christian friends invited her, but for some reason or another, it didn't go any further than that.
Did they have to be invited to become a member of a club? I don't know. I really don't know that. What about the men's club? Well, you can belong. I personally joined the, I belonged one time at the Rotary Club and then I changed from the Rotary to Lions because I liked the makeup of them. The Mines Club was better for a young man at that time, and I thought it was a club to belong to. Were they receptive to you? I didn't have any problems in that club. In fact, I became president of that club in later years. Did you experience any anti-Semitic attitudes within that?
Well, not directly. I don't believe I had any real direct attitudes. At one time, one of my friends wanted me to join the Masons there, and for some reason I didn't push it any further, and they declined to comment why I didn't go any further. But I didn't, it wasn't on my part that they were trying, I wasn't pushing in to get it. They asked me and even submitted everything for me. What about observances and Jewish living? How was it? Well, we went to the neighboring town of Texarkana for services. We belonged to the congregation. Our children went to Sunday school there, and we had a unique situation where our friends the Kaufmans and a number of two other families used to meet on Friday night at Bryce's cafeteria.
And it was a normal thing to be practically every Friday night that we were there. In fact, our son Bill, in a paper just recently, and wrote about going to services and meeting our Jewish friends at the cafeteria. Was there an Onik Shabbat after services? Yes, I think first of each month they had a practice of having an Onik Shabbat, and then on special occasions they had Onik Shabbat. Do you know how many Jewish families were in Texarkand? I'd say 42 families at that time. And about how large was the population? The population of Texarkana at that time was about 40,000. Did you have, or did they have other Jewish families from surrounding smaller towns from the beginning?
Well Ashdown which was in Arkansas people from Magnolia Arkansas would come occasionally but mostly that was the makeup right Well, Ashdown and the Kauffmans. Yes, I think the first of each one had a practice of having a morning Shabbat on special occasions. Do you know how many Jewish families were in Texas? I'd say 42 families at that time. About how large was the population? I'd say for 30 years. The population of Texas, Canada, at that time was about 40,000. Did you have other Jewish families around the smaller council? Well, Ashdown, Arkansas, people from the congregation itself. Oh, there are some people from Magnolia, Arkansas, the Reformed congregation, occasionally, but mostly that was the makeup, right?
Art, Ashdown, and Kauffman's, and Ashdown have been members as long as we have, and maybe it was not. And then Kauffman lived in Ashdown longer than we had, So he was never earlier than me. Of course, on a special occasion, we did have... I'd say for 30 years, and we met on that Friday night, and of course the couples are very dear friends of ours. So you'd have Shabbat? Did you bring time or anything? You just had your Shabbat meal at the cafeteria? Well, we'd have Shabbat meal, but see, the congregation itself, service we light candles on Friday night because it's a reform congregation and I understand the Orthodox and Conservatives I don't think they do at the synagogues so be sure that everybody would attend to Friday night candle service that we had our Shabbat meal like you said at the cafeteria Of course on special occasions we did have Kiddish 7.45.
Did y'all go in every week? If we were at home. No, no, no. Did the temple normally have a Kiddish there? Do they lift the canvas on Friday evening? Oh, yes. They have practically every service. The congregation. And when our children were growing up, we were sometimes twice a day in Texarkana. It was sung by the rabbi. If it was a such holiday or service, we'd come back. Was it a late service? Was it about what time? We always made it 745. Hanukkah. Friday nights. In those days, gas is huge. Sometimes a special case. We may meet sometimes. What about Saturday morning? Did you go in?
No, they did not have services. That was when the service started then? Yeah, 745. Did y'all go in every week before the service? No, no. The meeting, every Friday night, We used to meet three to four doctors and nights out of the month. And when our children were growing up, we were sometimes twice a day in Texarkana. or go in for Sunday school and if it was a holiday or service, we'd come back for 6.30 for circus or Hanukkah. Had to go together so that the Orthodox would have Saturday morning, early Sunday. No, they did not have a service on Saturday morning. But that was before my time.
The congregation was small, and especially in those days, the town is on the side of the town. It's not like, of course, maybe lawyers or a doctor could... As far as I know, yes. Two or three lawyers and maybe one doctor. And the rest of us had to open our stores around 30 attendance So therefore we didn have Saturday morning services Now I understand that before we had two congregations they had an Orthodox congregation and a Reformed congregation So therefore they had to go together so they'd have a service. The Orthodox would have a early service. Then when we lost a lot of families, but that was before my time.
That passed away. This was 1946, so it must have been 1945. Now has this practice continued all through the years? As far as I know, yes. Well, yeah, he's doing the same thing now. The Orthodox came to join the service. We have, I'd say, about a 30% attendance. Had their own service, and then they would join the Reformed congregation with their service. Of course, sometimes we have more, sometimes we have less. Very congenial. But we still have a rabbi there. Now, what was life like in Atlanta? So, therefore, we're continuing services. What happened to the Orthodox? Of course, you don't have the... Or was it Orthodox conservative combined?
Well, what happened is, at that time it was Orthodox. Then when we lost a lot of families, some passed away, so therefore we combined services. At that time, most of the people were not Orthodox but Reformed, So therefore the Reformed Orthodox King joined the service. At one time in the High Holy Days, the Orthodox had their own service, and then they would join the Reformed congregation with their service too. So that's why they were very convenient. They were very convenient for the congregation. High school, both of our children graduated from Atlanta High School. Just day-to-day living. Well, of course you don't have the, uh, some of their peers, uh, I know Bill speaks of the peers that aren't good all of those things.
Sometimes, Mary, I know, I know, I've been thinking about her girlfriend, and, uh, her As a whole. Atlanta, the world of Christian faith. My wife played bridge quite a bit in those days, and she had a number of Christian friends as bridge players. In their younger days, they looked forward to it. In a small town, you like football, and you're a part of the group. Closer to graduation than high school. To carry on the traditions of football for the high school. both of our children graduated from Minnesota High School and didn't really have a real bad problem they had some some of their peers I know Bill speaks and his peers understood all of those things sometimes Mary our daughter would say some of the things she didn't like her girlfriend said but as a whole.
Well, I think they had planned it pretty nicely. How did the kids feel about going into religious school on Sunday? I'm sure that Mary would have liked it better if she had been in a school. Well, in their younger days, they looked forward to it, but of course it had more Jewish friends. It got closer to graduation and high school. It got a little more, what shall I say, hard for them to want to go. However, Bill was one of the best with them. His daughter was there, and Mary was two daughters there. Bill was very interested in scouting. But we had kind of a feeling a lot of times that we tried to send Bill to Temple News one time.
He thought everything was all right. I'm sure that Mary would have liked it better if she was in a group that the Jewish groups did not accept him. More Jewish and had more Jewish friends. and could have met with him however through the time he was. And when she was ten then twelve she went to Echo Hills and some lot of the people had some of the families here that had their daughters there the Kauffmans had their two daughters there Now, Bill was very interested in scouting, but we had a kind of a feeling that a lot of times we tried to send Bill to Temple Youth one time, and for some reason he always seemed to be too young or something.
and it was very discouraging for him especially that the Jewish groups did not accept him on face value and just thought he was too young didn't even investigate what kind of a fellow he was and the same way was him and Tadea they did the same thing to him. However, later on when he became senior in high school So he went to one of the camps, and of course his knowledge of camping was so good that he planned a couple of meals for them. Well, we were a little lax. And later, when he was a senior in high school. But Bill didn't have the Jewish holidays We knew about reception from the Jewish groups that we should have had And we The congregation always had a community Well Mary was very comfortable there She enjoyed it very much And she also got to go out to Blue Star in North Carolina No no that was Blue Star that's a private camp too.
Christian kids. She enjoyed her camping experiences. More so than Bill, because Bill never did get to go. They loved it. In fact, it was a whole lot better reaction than you thought it had. Well, we were a little lax. We were a little lax. I don't think they had any problems. I don remember for sure but they seemed to enjoy the Seder We knew about some shavuos We didn have any real The congregation always had a community Seder And some of our friends at times would even have the second night. Of course, I'm sure that we... Either our house or some of our friends. And we've had even by the...
And, of course, that's Christian in a small town. My son Bill to pass over services. What was their reaction? They loved it. In fact, it was a whole lot better reaction than we thought it meant in our home trying to convert us. Well, I don't think they had any problems there. What's the reaction when they signed out that you... I don't remember for sure, but they seemed to enjoy the Seder. Well, they looked at us like, well, you're making a mistake. But we didn't have any real anti-Semitic cries in the sense of... ...in the street or anything like that. And, of course, I'm sure that we were not asked to do certain things.
And, of course, naturally, in a small town, the Baptist people and some other congregation were always trying to convert you because they got a Jew, they would read, they'd get a prize. And, of course, we had that. And, especially since we retired, and we're not in business to convert us. But, as you know, we're not convertible. What's their reaction when they find out that you are not interested in coverage? Well, they looked like, well, you're making a mistake, but they backed off nicely. And I'd say a number of our people didn't understand that we weren't that way. I found out or was running for a man or woman saying anything bad about the Jews.
Has the experience pretty much kept the same over the... I'd say it's dead, yeah. I think it does. Oh I don know I don seem to have any problems with the Christian people They friendly and all that especially since we retired and we not in business So therefore, they're not trying to sell us a bill of goods. But we didn't have it directly. I think indirectly probably had something. we just didn't have any problems. And I think on top of that we didn't stand for any problems. If I found out or run into a man or a woman that tries to say anything bad about the Jews, I call them that.
That makes a difference. I think it does. And what kind of store? Apparel store. You want to add Mother? Because I was very young. You're a good reporter. I heard some of the questions you asked. Thank you. Did I answer my question? Well, it's okay. There's something I can do about it. Better that than maybe some personal reason. Well, all right. Mrs. Myers, what was it like dealing with the ladies of the community in social situations? Well, they had three study clubs there, and I had friends who were members of all three. And I was told that my name had been submitted for membership, and then I was told by one of my very close friends that I was turned down because I was a Jew.
They didn't want any Jews in their organization. And at first it hurt. It was like a knife. But I thought about it for a while. Oh, yes, and one black ball and you were not accepted. The strange thing about it was that some of the members that they took in were not... So in time, I dismissed it from my mind, but it hurt for a while. It did. They had not attended. For the last few years I was asked to join the garden club earlier when I wanted to join. They didn't ask me. It was many years later that they wanted me to become a member.
And by that time I had started playing bridge and I wasn't so interested in gardening. So I knew I was being discriminated against. Were these clubs, in spite of being studied clubs, in spite of being studied clubs, was written by invitation? Oh yes, and one black ball and you were not accepted. The strange thing about it was that some of the members that they took in were not very well educated women. They had not attended college. And presented a program with their members they'd met. Well, they didn't seem the type of material, the type of people that they would want there for a study group.
After all, the purpose of the club was to study various topics, and I felt that I had the background for this. I mean, so I knew I was being discriminated against. Were these clubs, in spite of being study clubs, were they truth-oriented to study or more social? No, they were study clubs, I suppose, in a way. They were social, but these women got together and they prepared a program of study for the year on a certain theme. And these women did research and presented a program before the members they met twice a month. I don't really know how to answer that. I was invited as a guest to each of the different clubs And I heard some of the members present their topics and they did very well A great deal of poise and intelligent presentation and they apparently had done a great deal of study research for their subject But I don know about these women that I'm talking about who were invited about the time I learned that I was not acceptable.
I don't know about those women. I don't know. Maybe they performed satisfactorily. I don't know. How do you view your children's experiences growing up in a small town? Well, our son did not experience any religious prejudice at all among his peers. Maybe my husband told you about that paper we found. Well, he talked about that at length, but it was a different story for our daughter. She was three years younger than me, and among her peers were a number of Baptists. And incidentally, did my husband tell you about the Baptist layman who tried to convert us? Not specifically. They gave us a bad time. We finally had and then insult them to get them to stop coming to our house.
At first we tried to be diplomatic and nice, tell them in a nice way, but that didn't work. They kept coming back and bothering us, and it got to the point where we had to tell them, we're not convertible. We think we're satisfied with our religious beliefs. In America we have the right to believe the way we want to. We wouldn't try to convert you to our way, and you have no right to try to convert us to your way. And I don't want you to come back to the house anymore. We had to be very firm about it, almost insulting. But our daughter's was a different story.
When she was about, oh I suppose in junior high school. No, it was later. Junior high school. They started working on her. And she came home crying one day and said, Mother, I just don't know what to tell them. They tell me I going to hell if I don believe in Jesus And I don know what to say to them I just don know how to ask them And I told them to do it the same way we did with the people that worked on us Tell them this is America We have freedom of religion in this country And I have a right to believe the way I choose to believe just as you do.
And I wouldn't try to convert you to my way, and I don't want you to try to convert me to yours. And that ended it. But I think it left a mark. I think it bothered her a great deal more than she admitted. Because, well, I don't know, her group was feisty. Were these peers, these girls, a peer group? Yes, yes. Her peer group. And did they remain friends even after she said that she was under the table? Well, um... I assume she said she wasn't going to hell. Well, two of them that worked on her particularly were not her buddies, but she had other friends.
I don't think she ever was terribly fond of these two girls, but they were in the group. Now, after you had, well, Dad, did she have repercussions after that? No, she never spoke of it again. No, I told her to say that. Of course, I found out later from a Gentile friend of mine that they also worked on members of other churches. Well, I don't know. It wasn't just because she was a Jew. They tried to bring everybody into the Baptist church. The people that tried to convert you, were they personal friends prior to the... No. One was my dentist. I remember once being in his office.
He's got his fingers in my mouth, and he's trying to convert me, and I can't answer him. I never went back to him again, but he came to my house. And did you talk to him socially otherwise? I never did see him. And the others? There was more than one that came to him? Yes, but I didn't know him. He was an older man. I don't even remember his name. I didn't know him at all. And he had very little to say. It was the advantage to working But I think this bothered my daughter more than she admitted or more than she even knows She doesn have happy memories of her childhood in Atlanta like her son The people that tried to convert him with her son.
Did he never encounter any of this on team? No. No. He said that he played ball, never had any derogatory or a part? I believe he would have mentioned it in this paper that he prepared. He said the only thing he ever remembered was one boy said, Jews are Christ killers. And he said in his paper, he made this statement, no matter. He was just merely repeating something that he had heard. And he didn't mean to imply that Bill was a Jew, he was also a Christchurch. And that's the only experience he ever had. But I think that he was father. What about his scouting experience?
Well, he was pretty sure of himself as a Jew. He felt a great deal of pride in his Jewishness. And we went up the scout camp. No. Even though we didn't keep kosher honey, he would never eat ham. Did he tell you that? No, that's very interesting. Whenever they would serve it, and they would serve it often because a big ham feeds lots of boys. He wouldn't eat it, and he would let the kitchen help know it, and they would always prepare something else for him. But some of the fellows good-naturedly teased him about it. one of the counselors, the older boys. He was a man, a young man, not one of his peers.
What was that story about the... He put a... in front of his tent, burned the Star of David in front of his tent. And Bill did something to get even, but I've forgotten what it was. No, Bill and McAplan burned across in front of Bill. Oh, so Bill turned around and burned the Star of David in front of his. But there was no malice there. They thought it was just a big thing. Or at least McCauplin did. The scouter did. Some of those fellas good-naturedly teased him. The two Bills were always at each other's throat about what was better than that. And the star David burned in front of Bill McCauplin.
So that therefore he was getting even with the other one telling about. I think they also teased him about not wanting to eat them. But that didn't bother me. He was never uncomfortable with the fact that he was Jewish. Oh, that never bothered me. Do you think it bothered perhaps your daughter? Yes. Or she had. How is her situation then? Well, when they had the class reunion, she had no desire to attend. It was ten years later. And she didn't attend. She sees one or two of the girls who, when they come, one lives in Austin, she sees her occasionally. She has good feelings toward her, and there's another woman who comes occasionally to visit.
to visit. She's still friendly with her, but the other she doesn't care. What is she doing now, your daughter? She's married, has two children, and works for the state welfare department. She's in the administrative section that has to do with child abuse cases. Did she marry a Jewish woman? Yes, she did. Did she ever have any problems about interdating? How is her situation? Well, now that's her. No, no, she didn't. She had no desire to go. When she was a senior, no, no, junior, she started going with a very nice gentle boy who hadn't lived in the community very long before that. She might have a date for a dance or something.
There weren't very many attractive boys and she had known them all a long time. She wasn't interested in going. Sometimes when somebody would ask her for a day to go through one of these affairs She would say Mother I don really want to go with him And I said, well, look, let's face it, Mary, there aren't many attractive boys in your class. And if you want to go to this dance, you accept. And if you don't, just don't. So she started going with this boy, and he was very nice. and he would come to our house often and have meals with us often. We treated him like he was one of our children, and we were fond of him.
But her father began to think that she was getting too fond of him, and he talked to me about wanting to tell her, you can't go with him anymore, and I said, you can't do that to her. I said, in the first place, Mary won't pay any attention. she will sneak out and see him, and that will be a bad situation. And besides, if you ground her at home, what is she going to do? There's no one else for her to go out with, and a girl's got to have some social life. I said, look, school is going to end soon. She's going to Texas University.
She'll be in Austin. He's going out to Lubbock, Texas Tech. Things will take care of themselves. Just leave her alone. Don't do that to her. I won't let you do it to her. Sure enough, that's the way it worked out. Right after she went down to school, she met this young man. She fell in love with him and then at the end of her junior, sophomore year, they were married. It's been a good marriage. What about Bill? Is he also married? They'll also marry a Jewish girl. Did he have problems with interdating? No, there was no one else for him to date but the Gentile girls.
But he would go with them for a while and then he'd get tired of them and go out with another one. But I think a couple of them. I know what the mother of one of the girls told me. Her daughter said she would have converted in a minute if Bill would have married her. Things will take you over the place. Just leave your own. Don't leave that to her. I won let you do it to her Don you know if that the right way people say after she went down to school she met this young man she fell in love with him and then at the end of her junior, sophomore year, they were married.
What about Ben is good now? What about Bill? Did he also married? Bill also married a Jewish girl. No problem, or did he have problems with interdating? No, there was no one else for him to date, but the Gentile girls. But he would go with them for a while. Alright, you had said, Mrs. Myers, that you had met with anti-Semitism, is what it amounts to, with the women's group. Well, what I was told by my friends who had proposed my name for membership, that the The bylaws of the clubs specified that members must be Christian. So there was no place for me. They got off the hook nicely then.
They couldn't change the bylaws. That's what they said. It might have been that they didn't want to hurt my feelings because they were my friends. Really, they were. And I know they had no prejudice toward me. But it was just the club law, bylaws. Now, I'd like to go back for a minute to the way the temple handles the situation when the rabbi is on vacation. What happens? Well, our laymen take turns conducting services every Friday night. And we have always been fortunate enough to have one member who could read the Torah. We have Torah service on Friday night. We don't have services on Saturday morning.
And that's still in effect? Yes. Go ahead. Kay Gagelman's husband now reads the Torah. And before we had another man who no longer lives, who's moved to Houston, no longer lives there. But he used to read the Torah on Friday night. And then other members read the service and give a short sermon. Now, do they read directly from the scroll or do they use a book? Yes, read from the scroll. They do? Yes read from the scroll And explain the Torah portion The other member did not explain it Dr Geigerman has been explaining it So he does take the time? Yes. Yes. Thank you. We don't have services on Saturday morning.
And that's the only effect? Yes. Oh, go ahead. Craig Garland's husband now reads the Torah. Does he? Go ahead. And before we had another man who no longer lives, who's moved to Houston, no longer lives there, but he used to read the Torah on Friday night. And then the other, uh, uh, members read, lit, you know, read the service and give us short sermon. Now, do they read directly from the scroll or do they use a book? Yes, read from the scroll. They do read from the scroll. Yes, read from the scroll. With the scroll? And explain the Torah portion. Uh, the other member did not explain it, uh, uh, Dr.
Geigelman. has been explained to us. So he does take the time to prepare. Thank you. This is Ginger Jacobs, and this is August 27, 1979. We'll be talking to Mr. and Mrs. Myers, who live in Texas. Okay, Mr. Myers. Can you hear? Can you hear that part? All right, fine. Well, no, no, no. What are your earliest memories? Where were you born, and how was it? My earliest memories were in Kyle, Texas, when I was about, I'd say, three years old. How is it that your family came to Kyle, Texas? Well, my father, I was born in Ballinger, And like most people, they didn't like to dust the storms out in West Texas, so they moved to Central Texas, so they moved to San Antonio.
And for some reason, the climate didn't agree with me in San Antonio. So they decided to move to a small town, which is about 60 miles north of San Antonio. About what year was this? 1913 or in the last part of 1913. Now your dad, I understand, had come to Galveston from New York. What made you move out of Galveston? Well, at that time, the Federation or the Jewish organizations that looked after people and immigrants immigrants that came from Europe or New York would consult. And I believe Dr. Cohen, Rabbi Cohen was the rabbi at that time, and they would give them enough money to go to certain towns.
And the primary towns that I understand were Fort Worth, Jefferson, Waco, San Antonio I'm sure and some to Dallas and my father was given enough fare to go to Fort Worth and I remember the man in charge in Fort Worth was Mr. Abe Mell who he and his brother were prominent merchants in Fort Worth and they would help the people in and the immigrants to go out to West Texas. And so in 19, and I believe this happened in 1909, and my father eventually worked from a pack on his back to a horse and wagon. In the meantime, my mother came from Europe, and they lived, I remember the name of the street, Cherry Street, in Fort Worth.
They talked about there, and I remember some of the names in Fort Worth, and some of them still live in, I understand. The Boxsteins, in those days, in the Yiddish way, they used to say Bookstein. and who else? Well I already mentioned the Mells and the Hermans Rosenthal and those families were established already in Fort Worth and after Fort Worth and I believe this Cherry Street is right in right up before you go out to North Fort Worth and after a while I think my father decided that Ballinger would be a better base for him and he and four or five other gentlemen shared a house and they'd pool their money to so they could work out as peddlers and then they'd always have minions and the two three other men or families in the nearby towns and I happened to be the town he mentioned just now Winters and there's nothing nearby and so therefore I think that was the center of that.
Then finally my mother moved out there and I'm the result of the reunion of my mother and Dave. What were the type of things that he sold from the pack on his back and what was the round? I don't actually know, but I'm sure it was peace goods and notions of the times. And they traded with the farmers. They traded the goods for chickens and eggs and different animals. I don't think they took hogs because they're Jewish. They wouldn't take that, but other things like that. Where was your mother staying while your father was there? In Fort Worth. In Fort Worth. She lived in Fort Worth a while.
Who did she stay with? What were the houses? No, you got me. No, I don't know. I have no idea. Were there rooming houses? I think they had a house. They were, I believe they were renting a house. They were making just enough to pay for the rent and things like that and enough to eat And then finally she moved out there to West Texas with my dad at Ballinger I say that was around 1910 or in those years I'm not sure. I'm not sure about that. I was born in 1912. What type of business did your dad have at Ballinger? He didn't have a business in Ballinger.
he peddled out of Ballinger with a horse and wagon. Okay. Then later he decided that Ballinger wasn't a good place because I don't know if you've ever been out to West Texas, in that area, it has a lot of, they have a lot of dust arms and you can pick up your plate and you leave a ring on your table where the dust is accumulated. Did he peddle the same type of goods, whatever they were, like notions? I suppose he did. I'm sure he did. The abortion wagon changes, separation. Yeah, and I think some of them peddled with fruit. They bought fruit and peddled in that area.
Huh? Pots and pans? The general peddle there, frankly, I don't have any idea what he might have so proved as far as I'm concerned. When he moved from Ballinger? We moved to San Antonio. And what happened? Well, you know, at Fort Sam Houston, there's the Army base, and he moved there, and I think he had a fruit stand in San Antonio. and it's in the area of, if I'm not mistaken, Josephine Street in that area which is near Fort Sam. And I became very ill and I think they stayed about a year, a year and a half and decided to move to Kyle which is 60 miles down the road.
I also remember, and I was just recently looking through some old pictures and cards, and I noticed soldiers had mailed cards to them This is 1911 no more than 1913 or 12 somewhere in there And different soldiers I noticed one came from Atlanta Georgia The soldiers left and wrote them for the holidays, wished them a good yunting for the holidays. And then we moved to Kyle, which is one section of the land there is farmland, and the west of the railroad tracks, we used to say, is ranch land. and the ranchers would bring their cattle to the railroad stop and loading their cattle there and the farmers would bring their cotton to the cotton gin and I remember a big oil mill which made cake for cattle to eat.
I don't know if you've ever eaten cake. I used to eat a cotton seed meal. I used to go play in the cotton seed whole house and swing real high and go down. It's a wonder I didn't get buried and probably aficionated myself, but I was lucky. Suffocated, wasn't it? And I think that's about it as far as until I started school. and at first we lived in the top of the store and I remember when we got a bathtub and I remember when we got inside plumbing and I don't know, I always remember my mother cooking local foods and we had a Mexican lady that worked for us and she helped cook.
We had kosher tamales and kosher enchiladas when I was growing up because my mother kept kosher. How did she get her meat? Papa learned to be a shepherd of his own. He practiced and got his, what is it called? Oh, is that the word? Just a shacket. And he cut his own and killed his own chickens. And he could kill a calf, but he never attempted to kill a big, because it was too much of a problem. Were there any other Jewish families? Now, no. neighboring town which was nine miles away, San Marcos, Texas, had three, four families. And we had Jewish families in Lockhart that were friends of ours.
And I remember they used to gather on Sundays, and some of them played pinnacle, and some of them played poker. And the kids would play, and they'd visit from each town. Sometimes it'd be in Kyle. next time in San Marcos, next time in Lockhart. And that's how the Jewish families did in those days. Of course, it was the beginning of the trucks and cars. I remember we had, the first car we had was a 1918 Buick. And it was a gray touring car with a canvas top. And then we got a Ford, a Model T Ford, and I didn't even, at eight years old, I used to drive it.
You didn't have to have a license so you drove it. What are the first cars in the area? I tell you, the doctors had the cars. In fact, that's how my dad got his car. He bought it off a doctor when he got a new one. And the doctors had cars, and if there's any bad fire or disaster, the doctor would either, if it was raining, he would get on his saddle his horse and go visit his patients on a horseback. Of course, when it was dry, he drove the car. and they didn't carry everybody to the hospital. You had to be nearly dying before they took you to the hospital especially in the small towns Now in bigger cities like Austin they probably would take you to the hospital if you were sick enough to be taken to the hospital.
If you hadn't done it in the earlier session, would you sort of tell us about your Jewish education? Well, I tell you, I was neglected. My father wanted to teach me, but he didn't have the patience, I guess. And I was a very, wanted to play ball, and I also took music lessons. And so, therefore, I didn't, and I remember learning the four questions from Pesach. and I started to learn the olive base and all that. But for some reason or another, something happened. I lost a chance of studying for Bar Mitzvah. And we left Kyle. I'm not mistaken, it was 1924. and so I was 12 years old and I was in the sixth grade.
Is that too fast? Yeah. When you were in Kyle and you just had several families, what did you do about Kyle? No, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Just one family. Well, in the area. Oh, go ahead. Most of the ones that lived closer to Austin We'd go to Austin for the High Holy Days. We'd close our store for two days, and we'd go for Rosh Hashanah for two days. Then when Yom Kippur came, we again repeated the trip. I even remember my mother packing a trunk, a small trunk, and putting all our clothes in it. and we usually stayed with some prominent family you know the Coens and the Franks we stayed with them when we went for the High Holy Days and my father was what ironical was my father was a kind of a Hazen and I didn learn Hebrew Did your father ask a Shabbat for anybody else No just for himself because I don know He could have acted for the others, but I don't remember him doing it.
I really don't know. Was he a Shomer Shabbat? Did he rest on church? Yeah. Yeah. But later on, business was really, for some reason or another, it was a drop-off in business. And, but, no, he was closed on Saturday. He had a store by then? Well, we went into the general produce business, and delivered produce in the neighboring towns where the families like Lockhart and San Marcos and Seguin. And so I think we closed on the Shabbat because I don't remember him working on Shabbat. Did he pray during everything? Yeah, he laid to them. Yeah. And he did that all through his American life. What was the place that was?
Oh, that was great. When we were living in Kiowa, naturally we just had the family, but when we moved, then finally we moved to Austin, we would have boys from the university come to our house, And it seemed like we always had one or two strangers coming to our house every Sabbath. And then during Pesach, the boys would come, and some of them ate with us. They paid for their meals so that they, a lot of the boys in those days used to keep Pesach like they would do if they were at home. And we had mayonnaise and things for Pesach because my mother would take eggs and all that and whatever.
I don know what it takes to make salad but i i always remember that and i we had fruit salad for a piece of it What about the macas Where did you get your macas when you were in town We got them in Austin. How far were you from Austin? Twenty-one miles, I think. Did you walk the show when you stayed in Austin for a few days? Yeah, yeah. Well, we always, the families that lived close to the Shul. In fact, in those days, both the Reform and the Orthodox synagogue were three or four blocks from each other. And you could walk to either congregation.
What about Sukkot? Anybody have a Sukkot? Yeah. my father had a sook had it outdoors and he ate outdoors ate under the stars yeah I remember I used to go and eat with him I was the only one in the family would do that but he would eat out of course unless it was bad weather but he had a sook I remember it was kind of a slat board was open and he would hang straw and things and cover the boards with straw and also hanging shades of fruit and what was it, the myrtle? Kalula. Kalula, yeah, we had that too, but that's a different holiday we're talking about.
Well, Circus. Oh, Circus. I'm lost. I was thinking about Paisley. Circus, yeah, he had, we had that. Papa always got those things. And. Oh, excuse me. No question. I was going to remind him to tell about the Andy Simmons. Well, it wasn't, I don't suppose he's here. Well, we did, too. I remember one time, well, I remember around 1920, I believe it was, the Ku Klux Klan had a meeting on the side of the hill. It's called Bunton Hill. In fact, when we passed on a highway now I notice it got Bunton Hill marked as an exit in the Gold Takao and I remember they burnt that big cross and of course my daddy had known I was out there he probably would have let me have it but he didn't know about it and I went with some older boys and we went out there and watched the Ku Klux Klan wearing robes and hoods.
It was scary, but I was one of those kind who wanted to see what was going on. I believe that was around 1920. There was a lawyer in Austin who was by the name of Shelton, who was the attorney that was fighting the Ku Klux Klan. He tried to prosecute a Ku Klux Klan member for being covered and things like that, and he finally drove them out. But I also noticed that when the Ku Klux Klan became stronger, my father's business started to pay for it. It dropped off? It dropped off, and the number of people didn't pay their bills who were Ku Klux. And yet they traded with your father?
They did, but when it became Ku Klux, they quit. Okay. You said they didn't pay their bills. Well, what I mean is when they joined the Klan, they stopped trading, and in those days a farmer would buy food in the spring and pay for it in the fall. Well, then he made his crop. Most of them made cotton, or if they were cattlemen, they sold their animals at different times, especially in the fall. And that's one of the best of the business when they had a fall business and especially when a terrific cotton crop, it was really something great. And I remember they would burn the cotton stalks at the end of the year end of the season and you could stand in Kyle and you could see that for miles farmers burning cotton stalks It was something for behold to see who planted cotton and who sold cotton You could tell where the cotton stalks were burning Were you bar mitzvah?
No. That's a sad thing in my life, but for some reason, like I said, I didn't study it like I should have. And there was a year there of transition that when we moved to Austin, I became of age, and for some reason I just didn't do it. That you had older brothers? I had two older brothers. Were they, had they been varmints by that time? I don't think so. It seemed to me that I would have remembered, but of course, let's see, they were ten years, Sam, my brother Sam was nine years older, and my brother Louis is ten. When you moved to Fort Worth, that was from Kyle then?
No, no, no, no. I came from, my father came from Galveston to Fort Worth, and my mother joined him in Fort Worth, and then they both moved out to Ballinger after my father got established in Ballinger. And then they moved to San Antonio, and then to Kyle. And then in the sixth grade, we moved to Austin. I'm sorry. Okay. Austin. Why is it Austin? Why is it Austin? Well, that was the nearest big city, I suppose. My father wanted, and family wanted to move to where a congregation was. What was Austin like when you moved there? Well, let's see, Austin in 1924. The university was there already.
The capital, Austin was a pretty nice country. They used to say a big country town But Austin was a nice city at then and it was always growing What was the Jewish community like Well they had two communities The Reformed Congregation, which was a German congregation, and the Orthodox, which was the Eastern Europe Jews. How many members of each one had? When I was in high school, I remember I used to be a collector for the Reformed congregation. And I'd say they had about, I'd say 40 members, 40 family members. What's a collector? A collector to see the Jewish congregations in this section had dues.
say a family a well-to-do family would pay say we'll just use around figure of some kind say $500 a year and the average family maybe paid $100 a year and they'd pay by monthly and the secretary of the congregation would send me around to pick up the money so they could pay the rabbi and that's what they did in the Reformed congregation. And, of course, in the Orthodox congregations, they had the New System Plus, the aliyahs, and they sold, you know, during the holidays, they sold their... Did the Orthodox have a rabbi? No. I don't remember a rabbi. Wait a minute. In 19... Let's see, a rabbi came there by the name of Tenenbaum that I remember.
and I'd say that was in 1933 or 4, somewhere in there. And, but I was already in university when that happened. And Rabbi Tenenbaum got into some kind of business and made lots of money, I'm told, insurance business. Sold all of everybody into insurance. You know more about that than I do. How do you know him? I knew his kids. I can tell my stories about that. You do her fine do you And the president of the Reformed congregation was a jewelry store owner by the name of Joe Cohen And he was very much of a help to the college students that came to Austin and didn't have enough financial help.
For some reason, he could get money from different sources, and he also could get scholarships at the university. And nearly, I guess, nearly every boy that came to the university that was in darn need of money knew Papa Joe Cohen. And he was a vine-dignified man, and he was president for that, I'd say in that congregation, for 40 years or more. In fact, his son became the president of that congregation. And now they did have different presidents in the Orthodox show, but I believe the Novy brothers were the big givers to that congregation, Jim and Novy and Lois Novy. They started out in the iron and metal business, and then they bought one of the theaters there, the Hancock Theater.
In fact, I worked for those folks in the show so I could go to show one. And, of course, naturally I needed the money, too. And Louis Novy finally took over the Hancock, and then he and some people out of Dallas bought the interstate theaters, and Louis Novy was the general manager for that section and a part owner of the interstate theaters. And he did real well. And, uh, let's see what... Well, that's... She was a daughter. In fact, she, uh, she was in that theater business, too, after her dad ...or passed away. I'm told this later, but when I worked and knew Mr. Lewis Novy, I'd say he was in 29, 30, 31, 32.
and I started working for a shoe store and then I went to work for a dress shop and I started to be a so-called manager then I went to work for a chain that was related to these folks that owned this dress shop that I was working in And I moved to different towns. I worked in Galveston a while. I worked in Fort Worth a while. I was kind of a troubleshooter. And finally I landed in Lareda. And that's where Hannah and I met. We had a mutual friend in Lareda. You want her to take us up from here? Yeah. I want to ask you one more thing about Dave and Ovie before.
So wasn't he a good friend of L.B. Johnson? Jim Novy. Oh, Jim Novy. In fact, I'll tell you a story about before she got, well, I was in the Army, and I wanted some help so I could get out. When the war was over. In the Army, I remember when during World War II. So Hannah and I went out to see him, and Jim Novy talked with a very severe accent. And he had a little red-headed, freckle-faced girl. I can see her today. And he dictated a letter to her to Lyndon Johnson. Lyndon Johnson at that time was the representative of Travis County, in that district, rather.
And when we read the letter, that's not what Jim Noby said. She embellished the letters. It was great. It was really a new life. That's just a story about Mr. Jim Noby. But he was a big contributor to Lyndon Johnson when he started out as a representative of that district Did you ever help your father Yeah, when I was, I used to drive the delivery truck, and I would, we had a, it was kind of a pickup truck, and I would drive, and that was a Model A, no, Model T, and then finally we got a Model A, I don't know if you all know what a Model T Ford is, do you?
Not necessarily. You drove with the pedals and hand spark and all that. And Model T, I mean Model A, changed to where you had an automatic starter and you had a gear shift. that was the start of the new deal in cars and I believe that was around 1929 or when Ford brought the 28 somewhere in there you want to talk now tell us about your family in Waco and how they got there did we go far enough with the U Any questions? Go ahead and answer that. Well, why don't you let me take it? Go ahead. If you have a question. Let's get sort of, you want to take two.
Ask me. And now how is it that your family got to Texas now? Well, my parents came to Texas about 1903. They were married in New York. they had both come here as immigrants before the turn of the century. I think my father came here about 1890 and my mother about five years later, but they met in New York. Where were they from? Um, from the, um, well, it was, then it was the, it was Austria-Hungary, but the Hungarian part and the part that later, well, my mother came from the part that later became Czechoslovakia. I don know where my father came from we never did find out While he was living he talked a great deal about his life in Allentown Pennsylvania And I thought that that's where he was born.
And when I applied for a passport about five years ago, I put that he was born in Allentown, Pennsylvania. I just found out about a year ago that he was not born there. That he actually came from Hungary. but we don't know where and we don't know exactly when he came. No, no, no accent at all. And actually my mother didn't either. She had lived in Texas for so long that, well, we had always known a lot of black people in the community and my mother talked more like a southern black than she did a Jewish woman, which was kind of strange. Where did she go?
How did she come to the book? She grew up in New York, and she never talked very much about when she came over here. She was just a small child, and she went to school in New York, and she talked about the terrible trip in steerage coming over to this country. I suppose the reason we didn't know that our father came from Europe was that he never talked about that. All I can remember was him talking about his life in Allentown. But they did meet in New York and they were married there. Did they ever tell you why they decided to come to Texas? Yes.
My father had a brother who was working and living in Houston, and he wanted my father to come there and join him in his business. It seems to me that he had a chandelier business or an electrical supply business, and I was told that my father and my uncle Oscar put in the chandeliers, installed the chandeliers in the synagogue there The one that later became known as Beth Yashurin It had a different name at that time. My father lived in Houston about a year, and my oldest sister was born there. And then they moved to Waco. Why? He became the shamus of the shul there, a job he had for a number of years.
And all the other four children were born in Waco. I was next to the youngest. Was that job, the shamus, a full-time job? Did he do anything else? I don't know. I don't really know that, but I know he was the shamus of the shul. I don't know that. Do you remember how many people were in Waco, what population of Waco was, what the Jewish population was? No, I did see some figures in an old volume of the Jewish Publications Society, but I've forgotten what it was. They give those figures in the books every year, but I have forgotten. But they had a Reform and an Orthodox community there.
I mean, well, they had both. And at that time, the Reformed congregation was, of course, made up of the German Jews. And just like the ones we read about in our crowd, they looked down upon the others. And they often referred to the others as kikes. there was a strong demarcation line there. The Reform Jews, of course, were more affluent. They had their own country club, their own social life, and that was the way it was. But in later years, those lines were erased, And today, when we go to Waco and attend services at the temple on Friday nights, we see the sons of the The man who used to blow the shofar on the high holy days and the other pillars of the synagogue sitting up there on the pulpit, they are now officers of the temple.
They still have both a Reformed and Orthodox congregation, and they intermingle. And the women belong to the Hadassah, the entire Jewish population belong to that organization, although for years it was strictly associated with the synagogue. What is the makeup of the synagogue now? If many of those people that were brought up in the shul are now members of Temple, then what is the membership of the synagogue? Well, to tell you the truth, I don't know. My brother, my older brother, retains his membership in both. now he'll go to the synagogue more on Saturday morning than he will attend services on Friday night at the temple.
But his wife's family were always temple members. She comes from one of those reformed families. As a matter of fact, I remember one of her aunts saying, You remember when the reform movement changed, they decided that they had sort of thrown out the baby with the bath water, and they brought back some of the old traditions. they began to teach the children Hebrew which they had never done before they began to have Hebrew in the temple they even read from the Torah I mean in the services they even read from the Torah one Friday night a month of course they didn't have services on Saturday mornings at the temple ever and they still don they have religious school for the children No Friday night And they have a large membership, but the attendance is rather poor, I would say, for such a large group.
You started to say about this aunt. Oh, oh, the aunt, getting back to her. When the rabbi, Rabbi Wohl introduced Hebrew in the services and began to teach all the children, this aunt became very indignant about it. And she said, Rabbi Wohl's going to make Orthodox Jews out of all of us, which to us was very funny. Growing up in Waco, let's say going to high school, how did you feel as being Jewish among the kids? Oh, I never, I never, well we Jewish children were not accepted in our Christian peer group. We were, we stuck together. We had to. And we just accepted that.
It didn't bother us. We just knew it was that way. Now we did have some friends in our classes, but we were only friendly at school. We were not friendly outside of the classroom or outside of the school. Was Rabbi Blumenthal's your rabbi? Yeah, Rabbi Blumenthal was the rabbi at the shill for a number of years. That was while I was growing up. Did you have a Hebrew program? What was the religious education like? And was there a social program? Well, now when I was a small child, they had a different rabbi, and they had a Hebrew school, and all the children went to Hebrew school, boys and girls.
But I was a rebel. I guess I was kind of like my husband. I didn't want to learn Hebrew. And today, I can say the bruchas over different things because I learned them at home. And I just know them by memory. I cannot read a word of Hebrew I remember the first time I lighted the candles at services on Friday night in Texarkana the rabbi said, oh, Hannah, you read beautifully. And I had to tell him, I don't read at all. That's just something I learned from my mother. How did you celebrate holidays? What did you celebrate holidays? Oh, my mother was very pious, very religious.
She kept a kosher home. All of the holidays were celebrated in our house. Even strange things like schlichus, when you swung a live chicken over your head. I don't know, those chickens used to squawk and scare the dickens out of me, but we used to do it. And that schluckopores, yeah, that's the thing. But we changed all the dishes at Passover. We had, oh, that was the nice time of the year. We loved to bring out those pretty dishes. Oh, they were so pretty with the pretty flowers on them. And we always loved matzahs and we loved all the traditional food. and you got a new dress and a new hair ribbon and a new pair of shoes.
Oh, that was a nice time. Oh, I loved that. And in the shill, we had the women sat up in the balcony. The men were downstairs, and you didn't go, the little girls didn't go in where the men were, but it was nice to run up and down the stairs to see what Mama was doing. talk to her and make sure everything was all right and then go out and play. I mean, the holidays were just fun because you were dressed up and you had special foods. To me, the religious part, even though my mother was very religious and tried to imbue us with the same feelings of faith that she had, But it just didn't rub off on me very well.
Did you have older brothers or sisters? Did you have sisters or only kids? Yes. There were five of us. I had two sisters and two brothers My youngest brother was the younger brother was killed during World War II How did they respond Did they go to English Did they do traditional things Yes, they, I don't remember my oldest, oldest, older sister going to Hebrew school, but my middle sister did, and she learned to read Hebrew very well, and she can, she, she reads it. My two brothers were, of course, bar mitzvahed. I remember my older brother got to the point where he didn't want to study Hebrew anymore, and he didn't want to be bar mitzvahed, but my mother wouldn't stand for that.
I think she disciplined him with a strap or something, and he continued his studies, and he was bar mitzvahed. We didn't have any trouble with my younger brother. He was a lot more flexible. What was your father doing as you growing up? Well, my father was having a hard time making a living, and we were quite poor. And we had some wealthy neighbors, and they had some wealthy kinfolks who lived in Casa Cana who used to come visit very often. and they had a girl who was about my age. I used to play with her and she had the most beautiful clothes that I always admired.
And when she outgrew them, I inherited them all and I was so proud of them. I felt so well-dressed. I can remember some of them to this very day. Clothes were very important to me. And oh, another thing, I didn't want to go to Sunday school because I only had one dress to wear because after I reached a certain age, I didn't inherit these clothes anymore because she got a lot of fun. fat and I stayed little and skinny and her clothes didn't fit me anymore but when we was when I was younger oh I had beautiful clothes thanks to my friend well not until not until my oldest sister graduated from high school and went to work but this was in 1922.
When my sister graduated from high school, she got a job at the local music store, but it only paid $15 a week, and what can you do with that? And she loved pretty clothes as much as I did, and she spent all her money on clothes. Oh, I used to admire them so much. She was so beautifully dressed. And they used to wear hats in those days, and gosh, I don't know how she paid $18 for a hat in those days, but she did. But when I was about 10 years old, my mother decided that what she needed was a little grocery store. And there was a Jewish family that wanted to sell one that was in a black section.
And we bought that store and there were living quarters in the back and we lived there. And then these black people used to trade there but they always referred to it as the little juice store. This was just a couple of blocks from our high school and we of course we always walked to school we didn't have a car until until I grew up the year I graduated from high school and I was the first one in family to go to college and I went to Baylor which is in Waco yes yes you had You had to take Bible, except that I didn't get to finish Baylor, and I put it off.
And so since I didn't get to finish, I never had to take it. But I had to attend chapel every day, and I learned to sing doxology with all the rest of the Baptists. but the reason I had to leave school was that my brother who was just two years younger than I graduated and no he was two years younger Jim Jim oh and and my family felt that it was more important for a boy to go to college than it was for a girl And I couldn argue with that He had to do something to earn a living And so I had to drop out of Baylor and I enrolled in a commercial college and took a secretarial course.
And then I got a job. And that was the greatest thing that ever happened, to earn my own money. and to be able to buy pretty clothes of my own. And I spent all my money on clothes, too. Now, my family didn't ask us to contribute to the household. Somehow or other, even though we were poor, we always seemed to have enough to eat. But that was because we had a lot of soup and stew and pot roast. You know, those kind of things went a long way. Actually, my family didn't become affluent until World War I, which is a terrible thing because it claimed the life of my, I mean World War II, excuse me, it claimed the life of our younger brother who was such a fine young man and was so brilliant.
and he majored in journalism, and he was the editor of the college daily paper as well as the yearbook. And he also, well, he worked his way through school by having a print shop of his own, and he also published a Jewish community paper called The Observer. And he had all the little news items about the Jewish community, for both, well, the entire Jewish community, Orthodox and Reform. No, but they had quite a number in both. Oh, they had more than that, I would say. More than a hundred. I don't really know. When you say all of them were affiliated, did they all feel they wanted to be affiliated to the show or in the show or in the show or in the show?
Oh yes yes There was no same thing as a Jewish person not being involved in Jewish activities No I don think so No they were all members and active participants That's another question that sounds a little funny, but when you get home from school, what do you used to do? Well, I was a diligent student and I did my homework and nobody had to tell me to do it. And, well, um, no, no, um, I don't really remember. Oh, sometimes one of my friends would come over to my house, so I would go over to their house. I remember doing that. We had quite a group of girls my age when I was in high school, and we used to have marvelous slumber parties.
And one of the things that we learned to do was to smoke cigarettes. I was all of 15. But there was a group of Gentile girls, the social leaders of the class, the ones who were the beauties, the most popular girls. And one of them had a car. And every day at noon, they would get in this car and ride around and come back with this marvelous smell of cigarette smoke. And I thought that was so sophisticated. And I was so naive, and I looked years younger than I was, and I wanted so much to be sophisticated and grown up, and I thought that was the way to do it, and so I learned how to smoke.
So when we would have these slumber parties, most of them were at one girl's house because there were live-in quarters in the back of the house where the maid had lived. Well, the maid did live, and she was the one who taught us all how to smoke, this young white girl. And that was just fun. We used to have great times. Wasn that unusual to have a wife maid Yes yeah I guess it was But they had one Her name was Winnie I remember her very well Now was she a native Waco man Or was she from one of the smaller towns that had come into Waco to work She probably was from one of the smaller towns.
They did come in from the little rural communities in the Waco area. and she probably was, but we didn't know much about her. The only thing I remember was that when I'd go over to their house after school, she knew we were hungry, and she would always fix us some French fried potatoes, and she made the best ones in the world. And she taught us how to smoke, which I thought was great then. Now, Rabbi Blumenthal was a very ardent Zionist, and he was very involved in Young Judea and with youth. Was he doing any of that when you were growing up? Well, I was already past the age.
I was not involved in Young Judea, which I think he started. The National Council of Jewish Women was affiliated with the temple in Waco, and they had a junior group and I was a member of that and so were these friends of mine and we were all very active in that well they had the AZA for boys connected with a shul and I remember all they did was play basketball and have dances and kids used to come from all over Texas from Dallas and from Fort Worth and Houston and Tyler and everywhere. Yes, yes. They had a building next to the shul where they had all of these activities.
And that's one way, though, the lines that had been drawn between the Orthodox and Reform disappeared. And there was another reason for that. The Orthodox people, of course, had lots of children, but the Reforms didn't. And the few that they did have, the boys, very attractive. There was maybe one or two attractive ones, but the rest of them were crumb. I mean, but the girls were pretty. And so the, and the Orthodox boys were attractive. My brother was an attractive young man and his friends were. And so the girls liked these boys. And so they started courting these girls and inviting them to the dances.
And that's how the lines began to be erased. And that's how my brother came to marry this girl from one of those Reform German-Jewish families. But today when we go to Waco, if there's a big party, when we're there we're always included. And we see all of these people from both sides of the tracks at the same party. It doesn't matter who the hosts are. They party together now. Myers at Salado, Texas on July 28, 1979. And Mr. Myers is from Atlanta, Texas, and has lived there for how many years, Mr. Myers? 33 years. 33 years. How did you happen to come, or your parents, was your father the first generation that came from Europe?
Yes, my father came in 1903, and he came to New York through the sponsorship of my uncle. For some reason or other, my father didn't like New York, so he came to Texas and to Galveston, Texas. I'm sure that it was Rabbi Cohen who was handling the refugees of those days. and at that time they sent people to different cities, especially to Fort Worth. Why is it that he came to Galveston? How is it that your father decided to come to Galveston, Texas? Well I not sure for that because I started with him in Galveston and I didn know he even came through New York So therefore I found out just recently my son Bill went to Washington and he picked up the manifest of the ship that my father came from Europe It was a Rotterdam and he came in 1903 and I believe he had $4.50 in his pocket when he landed in the United States.
Do you remember other refugees coming to Galveston when you were a child? Well, I think most of Texas refugees came through Galveston. In fact, I know a number of families that came through Galveston. in Central Texas, in San Marcos, Texas, in Lockhart, Texas, in Austin. They're all eighty percent of them that I know of came through Galveston. Do you know something about their experiences? What happened after they got to Galveston? Well, what I understand, that Rabbi Cohen had a group that are sponsored by the Federation of the Jewish People of Texas, and what they would do, they would supply them with enough money and railroad fare to a city like Waco, San Antonio, Shreveport, Louisiana, and Fort Worth and Dallas, especially Fort Worth.
For some reason or other, they wanted to send quite a few of the Jewish families to the West in Texas. A number of stores that I've noticed that came from these peddling days are the Levy brothers in Sweetwater, the Bermans in San Angelo, the Heidenheimers in Anson, Texas. Those are families that I know of, but of course there's hundreds of others. Why did they come to these towns How did they happen to get to these towns I sure that I don think they picked them on their own They were peddlers and they had to get away from the ones that already were being used as peddling sections like Weatherford or Abilene and those places so they sent them to a different direction like Ballinger, which is southeast of Abilene and east of San Angelo.
I think what the Federation had in mind is to have them settled in different sections so that they wouldn't be competing with each other. I think that is really... How did you get to Atlanta? Well, when I came out of the service, my brother-in-law, Abe Jacobs, knew of a store in Atlanta, and we decided to go in Partners and buy that store. And I went there in 46. I had never heard of Atlanta either. Was it a Jewish-owned store? Yes, a man by the name of Nathan Carroll, I don't know who was, came from Russia, I think he came from Russia in 38, 1938. And then he had the store?
He owned the store, and my brother-in-law, who was a salesman for a shoe company, knew him and decided it would be a good buy for us, and so we decided to buy the store, and I moved there after I got out of the service, which was in 1946, and I moved there January 21st. What was it like living in Atlanta at that time? What was the city like, or town? How big is it? A town? No, no. The town at that time was 3,700 people. Wait a minute Yes I think it was either 2 people I believe it was instead of 3 people And of course there been Jewish families that lived there over the years I don know but I believe Jefferson at one time was a very big considered a big city for this area And it would have been a real big city had it been nice to the railroads.
However, at that time, the riverboat came from Shreveport to Jefferson, and all the goods were being shipped through this freeport of river traffic. And at one time, even Jefferson had a synagogue, and still the cemetery is being used by the old-timers, and people that came to Jefferson. and then after from Jefferson a lot I moved to Atlanta, Mount Pleasant, Texacana, Pittsburgh, which is all in the East Texas area. How far are you from Texacana? 26 miles. Are you south? South. Are you all the way to Houston? Yes, Highway 59 south is what we call it and 59 goes all the way to Houston. And how far are you from Houston?
Two hundred and sixty miles. So that's a good... Six-hour drive. Yeah, that's a good drive. What was it like, or how many Jewish families were living in Atlanta when you came to Atlanta? Well, we replaced the Carrolls, so when the Carrolls moved we were it. Well, living in a small town, naturally it's not easy to belong to any clubs, especially for the ladies that didn't have a chance of joining. You had to be Christian to belong to the clubs of that time. I think since then they might be a little more liberal, but at that time they were not. What kind of clubs did they have in it?
Well, they have, yeah, it was a women's study club like I mean, and the garden clubs, I don't know what other, let's see, and other social clubs like the Amity Club, I think that's a national, a woman's professional club, I think it is. But it was not easy to join those clubs. In fact, at one time I don't think my wife could have joined because one of our Christian friends invited her, but for some reason or another it didn't go any further than that. Did they have to be invited to become a member of a club? I don't know. I really don't know that. Oh, go ahead.
Go ahead. What about the men's clubs? Well, you can belong. I personally joined the, I belonged one time at the Rotary Club, and then I changed from the Rotary to the Lions because I liked the makeup of the Lions Club better for a young man at that time, and I thought it was the club to belong to. Were they receptive to you? I didn't have any problems in that club. In fact, I became president of that club in later years. Did you experience any anti-Semitic attitudes within that? Well, not directly. I don't believe I had any real direct attitudes. At one time, one of my friends wanted me to join the Masons there, and for some reason I didn't push it any further, and they declined to comment why I didn't go any further.
But it wasn't on my part that they were trying. I wasn't pushing in to get it. They asked me and even submitted everything for me. What about observances and Jewish living? How was it that you had? Well, we went to the neighboring town of Texarkana for services. We belonged to the congregation. Our children went to Sunday school there. We had a unique situation where our friends the Kaufmans and a number of other two other families used to meet on Friday night at Bryce cafeteria And it was a normal thing to be practically every Friday night that we were there In fact, our son Bill, in a paper just recently, wrote about that going to services and meeting our Jewish friends at the cafeteria.
Was there an Onyx Shabbat after services? Yes, I think the first of each month they had a practice of having an Onyx Shabbat, and then on special occasions they had Onyx Shabbat. Do you know how many Jewish families were in Texarkana? I'd say 42 families at that time. And about how large was the population? The population of Texarkana at that time was about 40,000. Did you have, or did they have other Jewish families from surrounding smaller towns? Well, Ashdown, which was in Arkansas, people from, oh, there's some people from Magnolia, Arkansas, would come occasionally. But mostly that was the makeup, right? Well, our Ashdown and the Kauffmans in Ashdown have been members as long as we have, and maybe Henry Kauffman had lived in Ashdown longer than we had, so he was a member earlier than we were.
But we, I'd say for 30 years, we met on that Friday night, and of course the Kaufmans are very dear friends of ours. So you'd have Shabbat, did you bring candles or anything? You just had your Shabbat meal at the cafeteria? Well, it has about to be on, but see, the congregation itself light candles on Friday night because it's a Reformed congregation. And I understand the Orthodox and Conservative, I don't think they do at the synagogue. So to be sure that everybody would attend to the Friday night candle service we had it that way We had our Shabbat meal like you said at the cafeteria Of course on special occasions we did have kiddush and the Moshe over the bread if we were at home Did you, did the temple normally have a kiddush there after they lit the candles on Friday evening?
Oh, yes. They have practically, well, every service. The congregation has the Kiddush, usually sung by the rabbi, in charge. Was it a late service? Was it about what time? We always meet at 7.45 on Friday nights. If it's sometimes a special occasion, we may meet sometimes at 6.30, but that had to be a special occasion. That was when the service started then? Yeah, 7.45. Did you all go in every week for the service, or was it one more? No, no, no. The meeting, they have every Friday night and we usually manage three to four nights out of the month. And when our children were growing up, we were sometimes twice a day in Texarkana.
We'd go in for Sunday school, and if it was a holiday or a service, we'd come back for 6.30 for Sukkos or Hanukkah. But in those days, gas was cheap. What about Saturday morning? Did you go in? No, they did not have services in Saturday morning because the congregation was small, and especially in those days, the town is a Saturday town. It's not like, of course, maybe lawyers or a doctor could, but we didn have two or three lawyers and maybe one doctor and the rest of us had to open our stores or run so therefore we didn have Saturday morning services Now I understand before when they had two congregations, they had an Orthodox congregation and a Reformed congregation before they had to go together so they'd have a service that the Orthodox would have a Saturday morning early service at, I don't know, 6 or 7 o'clock in the morning.
But that was before my time. That is, see, this was 1946, so it must have been 1945 then. Now, has this practice continued all through the years? As far as I know, yes. Well, yeah, he's doing the same thing now. We have a service and we have, I'd say, about a 30% attendance overall. Now, of course, sometimes we have more, sometimes we even have less. But we still have a rabbi there, and so therefore we continue our services. What happened to the Orthodox show? Or was it Orthodox-Conservative combined? Well, what happened is, at that time, it was Orthodox. Then when we lost a lot of families, moving away, some passed away.
So therefore we combined the services. At that time, most of the people were not Orthodox but Reformed. So therefore the Reformed and the Orthodox came and joined the services. At one time in the high holy days, the Orthodox had their own service, and then they would join the Reformed congregation with their service too. That's why it was a very congenial congregation. Now, what was life like in Atlanta, just day-to-day living? Well, of course you don't have the, let's see, what should I say, the people of the Jewish It's a visit with, so you either met with your friends in Atlanta who were of Christian faith.
My wife played bridge quite a bit in those days, and she had a number of Christian friends as bridge players. And, of course, naturally, when you're in a small town, you like football, and you're a part of the group to carry on the traditions of football for the high school. Both of our children graduated from Atlanta High School and probably didn't really have real bad troubles. I'm sure they've had some of their peers. I know Bill speaks that his peers understood all of those things. Sometimes Mary, our daughter, would say some of the things she didn't like, what her girlfriend said, but as a whole they managed pretty nicely.
How did the kids feel about going into religious school on Sunday and having to travel like 25 miles. Well, in their younger days, they looked forward to it, but of course as they got closer to graduation in high school, it got a little more, what shall I say, hard for them to want to go. However, Bill was born when he was 13, and Mary was confirmed in later years. Did they ever comment as to the meaning that may have had for them as they went later, as they grew older? Well, I think Bill didn't, he thought everything was all right. I'm sure that Mary would have liked it better if she had been in a group that were more Jewish and had more Jewish friends and could have met with them However when she was 10 11 or 12 she went to Echo Hills met a lot of the In fact, some of the families here had their daughters there.
The Kaufmans had their two daughters there. Now, Bill was very interested in scouting, but we had kind of a feeling a lot of times that we tried to send Bill to Temple of Youths one time, and for some reason he always seemed to be too young or something, and it was very discouraging for him especially that the Jewish groups did not accept him on face value and just thought he was too young, didn't even investigate what kind of a fellow he was. And the same way was young Tadea. They did the same thing to him. However, later on when he became a senior in high school, he went to one of the camps and of course his knowledge of camping was so good that he planned a couple of meals for them and cooked them for them.
and later when he was a senior in high school. But Bill didn't have the reception from the Jewish groups that he should have had. What about Echo Hill being a Jewish camp? Did they feel more comfortable? Well, Mary was very comfortable there. She enjoyed it very much. And she also got to go out to Blue Star in North Carolina. No, no, that was Blue Star. That's a private camp, too. Yeah. And she enjoyed her camping experiences. I guess more so than Bill, because Bill never did get to go. What about daily living and observances? Well we were a little lax but we observed all the Jewish holidays We knew about Sukkos and Shavuos The congregation always had a community Seder.
Some of our friends at times would even have the second night at either our house or some of our friends, and we've had even invited Christian kids who'd come with our son Bill to Passover service. What was their reaction? They loved it. In fact, it was a whole lot better reaction than we thought it would have. How about the kids' reactions when they ate matzah, or did they eat matzah for eight days? Well, I don't think they had any problems. I don't remember for sure, but they seemed to enjoy the Seder a whole lot. But we didn't have any real anti-Semitic outcries in the sense of in the street or anything like that.
And, of course, I'm sure that we were not asked to do certain things. And, of course, naturally in a small town, and your Baptist people and some other congregations always were trying to convert you because they got a Jew, they would really get a prize. And, of course, we've had those things to happen to us. In fact, they've come in our home trying to convert us. But, as you know, we're not convertible. Yeah. What's their reaction when they find out that you are not interested in conversion? Well, they looked at us like, well, you're making a mistake. But they backed off nicely. And I'd say a number of our people understood that we weren't that way and we wouldn't be convertible.
Now has the attitude and experience pretty much kept the same over the years I say it did yeah Oh I don know I don seem to have any problems with the Christian people In fact, they're friendly and all that, especially since we're retired and we're not in business. So therefore, they're not trying to sell us a bill of goods. But we didn't have it directly. I think indirectly probably had some. We just didn't have any problems. And I think on top of that, we didn't stand for any problems. If I found out or run into a man or woman that tries to say anything bad about the Jews, I call them down.
And that makes a difference. I think it does. I really do. Now, what type of store? Apparel store. Apparel store. Yeah. You want a hand, Mother? Where are you talking? She's asking me questions. You're a good reporter. I heard some of the questions you asked while I was finishing dress. Thank you. Is this on? Yeah, go ahead. Did I answer by all right or did you? Wait a minute. Let's turn this off just a second. Okay, whatever. All right. Mrs. Mears, what was it like dealing with the ladies of the ladies of the community in socially, social situations? Well, they had three study clubs there, and I had friends who were members of all three, and I was told that my name had been submitted for membership, and then I was told by one of my very close friends that I was turned down because I was a Jew and they didn't want any Jews in their organization.
At first it hurt. It was like a knife. But I thought about it for a while and I decided, well, if they're prejudiced, there's nothing I can do about it. Better that than maybe some personal... reasons. So I, in time, I dismissed it from my mind, but it hurt for a while. It did. And then in later years, I was asked to join the Garden Club. Earlier, when I wanted to join, they didn't ask me. It was many years later that they wanted me to become a member. and by that time I had started playing bridge and I wasn't so interested in gardening and I could turn them down but it bothered me for a while.
Was membership to these clubs strictly by invitation and was that an unwritten law? Oh yes and one black ball and you were not accepted. The strange thing about it was that that some of the members that they took in were not very well-educated women. They had not attended college. They, well, they didn't seem the type of material, the type of people that they would want there for a study group. After all, the purpose of the club was to study various topics, and I felt that I had the background for this. I mean, that, so I knew I was being discriminated against. Were these clubs, in spite of being study clubs, were they truth-oriented to study or more social?
No, they were study clubs, I suppose, in a way they were social, but these women got together and they prepared a program of study for the year on a certain theme. And these women did research and presented a program before the members. They met twice a month. I don't really know how to answer that. I was invited as a guest to each of the different clubs and I heard some of the members present their topics and they did very well A great deal of poise and intelligent presentation And they apparently had done a great deal of study, research for their subject. But I don't know about these women that I'm talking about who were invited about the time I learned that I was not acceptable.
I don't know about those women. I don't know. Maybe they performed satisfactorily. I don't know. How do you view your children's experiences growing up in a small town? Well, our son did not experience any religious prejudice at all among his peers. Maybe my husband told you about that paper we found. Well, he talked about that at length, but it was a different story for our daughter. She was three years younger than he, and among her peers were a number of Baptists. And incidentally, did my husband tell you about the Baptist laymen who tried to convert us? Not specifically. He said that. They gave us a bad time for a while.
We finally had to insult them to get them to stop coming to our house. At first we tried to be diplomatic and nice, tell them in a nice way, but that didn't work. They kept coming back and bothering us, and it got to the point where we had to tell them we're not convertible. We think we're satisfied with our religious beliefs. America we have the right to believe the way we want to. We wouldn't try to convert you to our way, and you have no right to try to convert us to your way. I don't want you to come back to the house anymore." We had to be very firm about it, almost insulting.
But our daughter's was a different story. When she was about, oh, I suppose in junior high school. No, it was later. Junior high school, they started working on her. And she came home crying one day and said, Mother I just don know what to tell them They tell me I going to hell if I don believe in Jesus And I don know what to say to them I just don know what to have at them I told them to do it the same way we did with the people that worked on us. Tell them this is America. We have freedom of religion in this country.
And I have a right to believe the way I choose to believe just as you do. and I wouldn't try to convert you to my weight and I don't want you to try to convert me to yours." And that ended it. But I think it left a mark. I think it bothered her a great deal more than she admitted because, well, I don't know, her group was a feisty bunch. Were these peers, these girls, peer groups? Yes, yes. Peer pressure. Yes. And did they remain friends even after she said that she was under the hill? Well, um... I assume she said she wasn't going to hell.
Well, um, two of them that worked on her particularly were not her buddies, but she had other friends. I don't think she ever was terribly fond of these two girls. But they were in the group. They were. Yeah. Now, after you had, well, Dad, did she have repercussions after that? No. She never spoke of it again. They didn't give her a bad time? No, I told her to say that. Of course, I found out later from a Gentile friend of mine that they also worked on members of other churches. It wasn't just because she was a Jew. they tried to bring everybody into the Baptist church, none of this included.
Now, the people that tried to convert you, were they personal friends prior to the encounter? No, no, no. One was my dentist, and I remember once being in his office. He's got his fingers in my mouth, and he's trying to convert me, and I can't answer him. I never went back to him again, but he came to my house. And did you talk to him socially otherwise, in other social situations? I never did see him. And the others, or there was more than one that came in? Yes, but I didn't know him. He was an older man. I don't even remember his name, my husband might, but I didn't know him at all.
And he had very little to say It was the dentist who worked on us But I think this bothered my daughter more than she admitted or more than she even knows She doesn't have happy memories of her childhood in Atlanta like her son does. Did he never encounter any of this on a team? No, no. No. He played ball, never had any derogatory remarks? Not that, no. I believe he would have mentioned it in this paper that he prepared. He said the only thing he ever remembered was one boy said, Jews are Christ killers. And he said in his paper, he made this statement with no maris.
He was just merely repeating something that he had heard. and he didn't mean to imply that because Bill was a Jew, he was also a Christ killer. And that's the only experience he ever had. What about a scouting experience? Well, he was pretty sure of himself as a Jew. He felt a great deal of pride in his Jewishness. and we went up to scout camp. Even though we didn't keep a kosher home, he would never eat ham. And when they would, did he tell you that? No, that's very interesting. Whenever they would serve it, and they would serve it often because a big ham feeds lots of boys.
He wouldn't eat it, and he would let the kitchen help know it, and they would always prepare something else for him. But some of the fellows good-naturedly teased him about him. Even one of the counselors, the older boys, he was a man, a young man, not one of his peers. And what was that story about the, he put a, on his, in front of his burned the Star of David in front of his tent. And Bill did something to get even, but I've forgotten what it was. No, Bill and the captain burned a cross in front of Bill. Oh, so Bill turned around and burned the Star of David in front of his tent.
There was no malice there. They thought it was just a big joke, or at least Macaulay did. The scouter did. They were good friends. The two Bills were always at each other's throw about what was better than that. The star of David was burned in front of Bill McAplan's, so that therefore he was getting even with the other one telling about it. I think they also teased him about not wanting to attend, but that didn't bother Bill. He still stood his ground. He was never uncomfortable with the fact that he was Jewish or different in any way from the others. That never bothered him at all.
Do you think it bothered perhaps your daughter? Yes, I do. How is her situation then? Well, when they had the class reunion, she had no desire to attend. That was ten years later. And she didn't attend. She sees one or two of the girls who, when they come, one lives in Austin, she sees her occasionally, and she has good feelings toward her, and there's another one who comes to Austin occasionally to visit. She's still friendly with her, but the other, she doesn't care. What is she doing now, your daughter? Well, she's married, has two children, and works for the State Welfare Department. She's in the administrative section that has to do with child abuse cases.
Did she marry a Jewish boy? Yes, she did. Did she ever have any problems about interdating Well now that No no she didn When she was a senior, no, no, junior, she started going with a very nice gentile boy who hadn't lived in the community very long. before that she might have a date for a dance or something and there weren't very many attractive boys and she had known them all a long time and she wasn't interested in going. And sometimes when somebody would ask her for a date to go to one of these affairs, she would say, Mother, I don't really want to go with him.
And I said, well, look, let's face it, Mary, there aren't many attractive boys in your class. And if you want to go to this dance, you accept, and if you don't, you just don't. So she started going with this boy, and he was a very nice young man. and he would come to our house often, have meals with us often. We treated him like he was one of our children, and we were fond of him. But her father began to think that she was getting too fond of him, and he talked to me about wanting to tell her, you can't go with him anymore, and I said, you can't do that to her.
I said, in the first place, Mary won't pay any attention. she will sneak out and see him, and that will be a bad situation. And besides, if you ground her at home, what is she going to do? There's no one else for her to go out with, and a girl's got to have some social life. I said, look, school is going to end soon. She going to Texas University She be in Austin He going out to Lubbock at Texas Tech Things will take care of themselves Just leave her alone Don't do that to her. I won't let you do it to her. And sure enough, that's the way it worked out.
Right after she went down to school, she met this young man. She fell in love with him, and then at the end of her junior, sophomore year, they were married. It's been a good marriage. What about Bill? Is he also married? Bill also married a Jewish girl. Did he have problems with interdating? No, there was no one else for him to date but Gentile girls. But he would go with them for a while and then he'd get tired of them and no question, go out with another one. But I think a couple of them, I know, well, the mother of one of the girls told me that her daughter said she would have converted in a minute if Bill would have married her.
Thank you. is what amounts to with the women's group. Well what I was told by my friends who had proposed my name for membership that the bylaws of the clubs specified that members must be Christian So there was no place for me. They got off the hook nicely then. They couldn't change the bylaws. That's what they said. It might have been that they didn't want to hurt my feelings because they were my friends. Yeah. Really, they were. And I know they had no prejudice toward me. But it was just the club law, bylaws. Now, I'd like to go back for a minute to the way the temple handles the situation when the rabbi is on vacation.
What happens? Well, our laymen take turns conducting services every Friday night. and we have always been fortunate enough to have one member who could read the Torah. We have Torah service on Friday night. See, we don't have services on Saturday morning. And that's still in effect? Yes. Oh, go ahead. Kay Gagelman's husband now reads the Torah. Yeah, does he? Go ahead. And before, we had another man who no longer lives, who's moved to Houston, no longer lives there, but he used to read from the Torah on Friday nights. and then other members read the service and give a short sermon. Now, do they read directly from the scroll or do they use a book?
Yes, read from the scroll. They do read from the scroll. Yes, read from the scroll and explain the Torah portion. The other member did not explain it, Dr. Geigemann. has been explaining it to us. So he does take the time to prepare for it. Thank you.