Jennie Blumenthal
Jennie Wolfe Blumenthal was born in 1906, one of six children in a close-knit family. Her parents came from the region of Lithuania then under Russian domination, her father from a town he called Sable and her mother from a village near Ponevezh. They emigrated separately in the early 1890s and met in Baltimore, where both worked making handmade cigars. Jennie's father left Europe in part to keep his sons from military conscription. When her mother's oldest son, Morris, fell ill, doctors advised a change of climate, and the family moved to Dallas in 1902, settling in the old Jewish neighborhood near what is now the Memorial Auditorium.
In Dallas the family lived in a series of homes on Bellevue, later Park Row, Forest Avenue, and Carpenter, eventually moving to the Pemberton area in 1956. Jennie attended a Royal Street grammar school and Forest Avenue High School, recalling teachers she deeply respected. She earned a scholarship but went straight to work, beginning in 1919 as an office clerk at Forest Avenue High School for thirty dollars a month. Over 26 years she served as clerk, secretary to principals and to an assistant superintendent, and taught study hall, Latin, and typing, retiring around 1943 or 1945. She recalled facing antisemitism from colleagues after she began working.
Jennie married Sam Blumenthal, son of Rabbi Blumenthal, in 1929. Raised in an observant Orthodox home, she remained a lifelong member of Shearith Israel and welcomed the changes that came as the congregation became Conservative. Her home was always open to relatives, boarders, and soldiers during the war. She was an early life member of Hadassah and belonged to B'nai B'rith, Mizrachi, Brandeis, Sisterhood, and the Dallas Philological Society, where Sam gave multilingual word studies. She remembered Golda Meir's 1949 Dallas visit, the community center on Powhatan, Jewish-owned downtown stores closing for the High Holy Days, and the hardships of the Depression.
Full Transcript
People came from that particular school that we attended because we knew the Shakespearean quotations. And Miss Howard's motto that was always on the board was, To the pure, all things are pure. That was her motto. Which I think was very good. Who did the writing? You said it was written on the board, Shakespeare's... She did the writing. Oh, before she left the room, is that it? Well, see, they were up there, and they stayed up there for about a week, and then somebody else would, some other quotations would be up there, and it was great, really. We learned something in school, at least like it is today.
We had teachers that were teachers in every sense of the word. And while we wouldn't think of going to school if we didn't have our lessons, go to school and not have their lessons, that was a crime, punishable. What were some of the words that were considered nasty words in those days? What types of words? Oh, he says, oh, heck, or oh, hell, or something like that, you know. and I remember I was teaching I was helping him with his spelling and he had some dirty word I can't recall exactly but it was a dirty word in those days and he got his mouth washed out with soap I remember the boy's name James Grawl he was a red headed boy that lived up here on Lamar Street afterwards and I used to see him years to years later those were nice That's great.
Now, are you the first generation, were you born in the States? Who was the first generation? Yeah, I was born in Baltimore. Mom and Papa married in Baltimore. Aha. Okay, how is it that they came? Where were your parents from? Oh, Papa was from Sable in Russia, and it later became Lithuania. and Mama was from Neinstadt, which was the small little village next to Punevas. Punevas was the capital and that Lithuania We Litvox Okay What caused them to come to the United States and when did they come Do you know about when they came Well they came in the early 1890s Mom and Papa came.
They didn't come together. They met in Baltimore. There used to be a Mr. Epstein. He was very good to the new Americans that came. and he was interested in them and mom and papa both worked in a cigar factory they made handmade cigars and that's where they met but I remember mom always spoke of this Mr. Epstein he was so good to the he had a general merchandise store and if any of them wanted to go out and peddle go out into the country and peddle on them He provided them with their stock. Why did they leave Lithuania? Baltimore. Well, when they left the earth.
They left Lithuania because they were under Russian domination and the men would have to go into the army. And so Grandpa, his sons would have been of military age, So he came over first, but he came with, he brought Mama and her two brothers who were from his first wife, first wife who died, and he brought Mama and her two brothers. His mama was the oldest of the three children first. And then he brought his wife and the other children. There were about five or six of the other children. You know, the Granzics that were here. This was Mr. Granzic you're talking about. Yeah, Grandpa Granzic.
See, Grandpa came to Baltimore because some of his family had settled in Baltimore. and how did we come to Texas yes yeah well mama's some of mama's brothers uncle Philip had come first and uncle Harry and my brother Morris my mama's oldest child was not a well person and the doctor told mama she would change climate that that would be good for Morris and it did help him the Mom and Papa came here And that where we lived just a few blocks about seven blocks south of what is now Main Street. What was the Cross Street? Well, it was Royal, see? But where was it in relation to?
Oh, Accord. It was Accord. Yeah, yeah, Akershree, uh-huh, that's right. Now, what was your Jewish education like here in Dallas as you were growing up? Well, there wasn't much. Jewish education in those days was with private instruction. If anybody wanted to be bar mitzvah, you had to have a private teacher. and we had there was a Mr. Weinstein who lived in North Dallas I've forgotten who Morris had Joe wasn't by Mitzvah Morris I've forgotten who Morris was there was a teacher I can't recall his name and there wasn't anyone here when Joe was to be by Mitzvah so we never went through that observance and Phillip had Mr.
Weinstein I think and then they didn't have a Sunday school at Sheriff Israel until about 1915. And I remember that I did used to go to sort of Hebrew school in the basement at Sheriff Israel on Jackson Street, but I can't recall that I learned very much. and then when they opened up the Sunday school I was going to Temple Emanuel Sunday School because that was, all my girlfriends lived in the same area, Hedretta Wolf and Juanita Kramer and Beatrice Wertheimer and all of those. So I went to Temple Emanuel but I wasn't confirmed there. I quit going. when they opened up the Sunday school with Rabbi Epstein and Sheriff Israel.
And, but when I went to Temple Emanuel every, for those I went for quite a few years why every Saturday morning for an hour we would study Hebrew with a Mr Harris And that the extent of my Hebrew That why I can read Hebrew very well And I wish I could. I really like it. But I'm too old for this part. what was secular education like when you were going to school oh well we went like I said we went to that grammar school and we had excellent teachers we really learned what we had to learn and then we went on to high school which we still I started at what is now Bryan Street High School it was the Dallas High School and I went there until they opened Forest Avenue High School and then we all went to Forest Avenue High School and graduated there.
And after that, I didn't go. I was entitled to a scholarship because of my record in high school, but it was not mentioned to me until after I had started working in the office at Forest Avenue High School. and I was already working and making money so I didn't go to college but I took Francis and I both took courses at SMU we would go early in the morning and take a few this of our own choice and for our own enjoyment it wasn't for credit so much as it was for just to activate our minds How did you get to SMU in those days?
We had an automobile at that time. We did have an automobile. See, we were already grown and out of school and working when we did that. And we used to have to be there by 7 or 8 o'clock in the morning, and it was fun going in the morning. We went in the summer, the summer school parties. That was good. I was glad we left. You mentioned North Dallas. Now what about the barriers of North Dallas? What were some of the streets in North Dallas when you were growing up? Was then North Dallas? There was Alamo and where did the Applans live? Perhaps North Pearl?
No, it was in deep North Dallas. It was... I don't know... Caroline Street was one of them, Caroline, and I think Ash Lane. And that was about all. The streetcar took us from our... from Akers Street, where we lived, over to North Dallas. And one week I'd go over there and visit my friend, and the next week she'd come visit me. But that was a heavy Jewish neighborhood. We never lived there. We always lived on the other side of Raymond Street. Up to what street do you remember Dallas going to in the north part of Dallas at that time? This was in the 20s already?
Or 1918? Yeah, 1918-20, that's right. I would say where that Colonial McKinney may be. maybe. Okay. Cumberland Hill? Yeah, Cumberland Hill was the school for the North Dallas. Okay. Now there used to be a school at the corner of Jackson and Harwood that was called Cedar Lawn, I think. No, Cedar Lawn was on Irving. I've forgotten what the name of the scuba a lot of children went there it was on our way to Shewell to Sheriff Israel on Jackson Street we would pass the scuba and I've forgotten the name of it I don't remember the name of the scuba maybe Francis would or Joe would there was City Park School in the park the City Park came later it wasn't there early no it came later and Lamar Street came later because they had that one on Irving and just beyond the railroad tracks, beyond the Shep's Bakery that was Cedar Lawn.
So they didn't need City Park at that time or Lamar. They came later. I see. When did Sheriff Israel then start its religious school program? Start what the religious school program It was when Rabbi Epstein came which was about 1912 13 something like that 14 maybe Whenever he came, I don't know the exact date, but I know I was 15 years old when I quit the temple. When did they confirm the kids in those days? Well, sure, because we didn't have confirmation at first that I can recall. I think that came after Rabbi Gold came here. What about the Hebrew School of Dallas? Do you remember when that was started?
Hebrew School of Dallas. Well, that was kind of late. Because each one... Well, Jacob Levine came here in 1930, I guess, or 29, and it was already in effect. It was already organized? As far as I know. Well, who was here before him? That I don't know. I don't know if it was in the process of being organized at that point. Police might remember that. Well, let's talk about observance now. Unless there was something special you'd want to talk, you know, mention about your school days other than the preparation. I don't remember. Do you feel you had a very good, had you gone to college, do you think you would have had a good preparation for college?
Yes, yes indeed. Oh, yeah. We had grand teachers. We had Miss Henderson who understood children. I remember when we used to have Valentine parties. And she realized that some of the children would not get Valentines. So she always sent Louis Jules Hexter down or somebody like that who was in the upper class to go down and buy the Valentines for her. And every pupil got a Valentine. There wasn't anyone that was without a Valentine. She understood what it meant not to get one. And she saw that everybody needed it. She was a very fine teacher. We had good teachers. Sarah Hyman by the way was one of the teachers.
She's a Jewish. And she taught at, she taught the sixth grade at that Royal Street School. Cause she was my teacher. We had good teachers We respected them We wouldn talk to a teacher like we talk to them today Even today we say, we're glad we went to school during the era that we went. Because it meant something. And it means something now. What is the extent of your Jewish observance? What the extent of Jewish observance? Well, I think it was more sincere, and we were more devoted to our, we respected our parents, so we followed through as they wanted us to, as they taught us to.
We didn't. It wasn't unusual for us to do what we had to do and not ride and not pair and not do this, that, and the other on Shabbat. Mama never cooked at home. And it was just part of our insides. Were all of the holidays observed? Yes, we stayed out of school for every holiday. Two days at the beginning of Pesach and two days at the end of Pesach. Two days for Shavuos and, of course, both days Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur and two days for Sukkos. We stayed out for every two days, beginning, two days at the end of Sukkos. and they knew we were going to be out and no one criticized you for it in later years even the parents would almost spit in my face because I stayed out of school I didn't work when I was working at school but they let their children come and if something came up in a conversation they weren't very nice they were nasty.
They would call you down. But it didn't have an effect on the holidays of holidays. They don't tell them and that's it. You don't even tell them and that's it. Did your teachers or did any of the principals give you a bad time about staying out? No In our days they didn It was only after I went to work and I stayed out that Mr Parker or made one nasty remark But I ran into anti if you want me to talk about that I ran into anti-Semitism after I started working. And you want me to tell about it? Yeah. Now, what about anti-Semitism in your school day career?
No, nothing in my school day. No conflict as far as... This came afterwards while I was working at school. We were having a teacher's meeting, and we were discussing a pupil to be the queen of the Texas Week that Mr. Parker insisted on having and worked hard to have the Texas Week at Forest Avenue High School. I think he had it in all the schools trying to have it in all the schools so we were in the teachers meeting before school opened for the pupils and they were discussing some young lady and Mr. Yates, Hector Yates said well she's not like the Jew and he shut up I wasn't quite sure that I heard him say Jew but I looked up and I caught Emma Brown's eye and Emma Brown bit her lips and shook her head so I knew that he had said what he said.
When the bell rang it was time to go to class to my study hall that I had charge of. I left. I was the first one to leave. In my mind it says, well let them have it. and during the day I had to pass Emma Brown's class and she saw me and she called me back she came out and called me back and she said Jenny you acted beautifully this morning I started crying and I told her that it was just like what my father-in-law Rabbi Blumenthal always said the Jewish children have to give more than 100% and I never came face to face with Mr.
Yates before, after that, where he could, apologized to me. But one day, quite a number of weeks later, he met me in the hall and he said to me, Jenny, I want to apologize for what I said. I said, Mr. Yates, you don't have to apologize to me. I want to tell you what my mother said. I said, you're German extraction and you'll understand the way my mama said it in Yiddish. What's on your lung is on your tongue, and that's all I have to say to you. And that was it. I was glad I could say that quotation from my mother's lips. But he always looked at me, and I could always tell what was going through his mind.
that incident never left his mind as it never left mine when I saw him. And I had other examples of where they referred to the Jewish children. And that's as part of being a Jew. And I knew it, you know. Mr. Parker once said something to me too because I was out for a holiday. And it inconvenienced him. How did you observe some of the holidays when you were a child? You know, give an example. Well, we would go to shul with Mama as a rule, and then in the home we always had full observance, you know. Did you see some changes over the years?
Did your observance of holidays change over the years? Well, since Sheriff Thistle became conservative instead of orthodox like we first started out, you can see the change, you know, not only in the holidays but in the service. And, you know, men and women sitting together, which I can understand is just the modern trend, and we have to know the change will come. I now for Rosh Hashanian Kippur we go to Teferit Israel because we are within walking distance We don want to ride on Rush Shunni and Kippur And there they have mixed and they have separate And I really enjoy sitting with the women within the section where the women are.
It's a better concentration for the service for me. but I can understand a lot of them want to be with the husband and wife wants to be together that's just fine I don't object to it but personally I like the separation for myself do you remember Cherry official when they had the pizza of course when it was on the bus they did have the pizza no they had the upstairs we had the upstairs in the old synagogue on Jackson Street the women went upstairs. None of the women sat at any part? Later they did. Yeah. But the women were on one side. I remember correctly, the men were on the other side.
The women were on the other side. Okay, now the women on Jackson Street. On Jackson Street, they had the balcony for the women. Of course, it was upstairs. But later, I remember, when I was a little older, that the women sat on the right-hand side of the synagogue. Now, did you say there was also a bathroom upstairs for the women? No. Oh, I'm sorry, I misunderstood. Okay. Bathroom was too bad. Okay. So all your facilities were downstairs. Just the balcony was upstairs then on Jackson Street. What type of show was that size-wise? Were there classrooms there? No. There might have been one or two classrooms downstairs in the basement, but it wasn't conducive for classroom work.
But they did have, I guess, two or three rooms down there. It's been a long time, but it was in the basement. And that's what I remember that part of it. Rabbi Epstein, I don't think he had any, I don't know whether he had places down there or not. I was young. But they did teach him something down there. I remember all the noise that used to be down there. I remember that But see I went to temple So when they first started really having a school then you didn participate in that school No I didn participate in that school What was the religious education like at Temple, and did you have any problems?
Well, they had a well-organized school, and they had individual teachers for individual classes, and they had plenty of rooms. We had a textbook. I remember the textbook. I might have one up here now. And was it already on South Boulevard when you went to school? No, it was on Irving and St. Louis. Okay. Irving and St. Louis. That's where I went. That's where I studied the Hebrew Saturday morning for an hour before services began. And I remember once when Mr. Ephraim Mittenthal came to service. He was the father of Nathan Mittenthal, who was president of our Jewish Welfare Federation for a number of years. Mr.
E. from Mittenpah came to Shul and they honored him with opening the ark at Temple of Magdalene they did not wear yarmulkes and they did not wear talasin but Mr. Mittenpah would not go up to the ark unless he put on a yarmulke and I remember the pupils who would go to Sabbath services the Sunday school pupils who went to Sabbath services would all start whispering among each other that, look, he's got something on his head. He's got something off his head. That was unusual for them. Now they, I think it's different now. They don't wear Yamaki, but they're familiar with it, I think. Would you say that most of the students were not familiar with Yamaki at that time?
No, uh-uh. No. Because we didn't have a big Hebrew school, you know, there wasn't it was a thousand of smaller community but they're none of the parents came from any traditional in that well given them some insight I doubt it I doubt it they were all strictly from the reformed German group then it's not like it is today where the descendants of the sheriff Israel members are now the leaders of Temple Emanuel That the difference What are some of the changes that you seen in the Sheriff Israel service Well, in the change in the Sheriff Israel service, first they have girls' bat mitzvahs, which they didn't have.
and the bar mitzvahs take on a different atmosphere. In what way? Well, when my brother was, when Philip was bar mitzvah, What was it like? It was just a family affair. We didn't invite people like you do today and send out invitations and everything. Mama just announced to her brothers that Philip was going to be about Mishnah and they were there and that's all there was to it. Philip was called up to the Torah. I don't think he had the Haftorah like they do it today. You're Bar Mishnah if you have the Aaliyah and you make the Brochah. But that's all there was to it.
So that's a decided change. And then of course now everything is food, has food with it. And not only in Shepherds Israel, every place now. It's food, food, food. And like I said, the bat mitzvah, the girls bat mitzvah, and they are well trained. And then we have the women coming up for the, for Aaliyah's and for Haftorah's if they want to do it. We've had several. And I accept the change myself. You don't have feelings dealing about it? No, I don't realize that we're living in a different world. And I feel that some of the reasons for not having the women up there is not valid.
What about the services themselves? How have they changed? Are they shorter today? Well, not Saturday morning. Saturday morning service, I think we have at least a three-hour service, and that's pretty long service. Now, the rush journey and cookie services are shorter. They have a time schedule. They have a certain time. It's more scheduled, I would say. They follow a schedule, whether before they did it. Where, say for sometimes, restaurant and temper, you wouldn't get home till 1.30. But it's not that way today, which I think is okay. The service is part of the service in English, part of it's in Hebrew, and that makes it your attention is there I think that's better I think I'm in favor of change I really am a lot of people are not are they using more English and services today yes they did it was you stop me on you yeah you should be all Hebrew that's what the prayer books were that's We have some of those old sidorium here, and that's what they are, all in Hebrew.
Do you remember when people brought their own sidorium to Shul? Yes, that's what Mama had heard. We still have Mamas here. We have Sam's mothers and fathers, too. I know mothers from Savannah have both of them for Rosh Hashanah and Kippur. It's all in Hebrew. and the prayer the sitter that your mother or the sitter that your father used as they passed it on to their children it meant something to them see now the sitter is provided in the shul and you don't have that attachment to it and that feeling that this is what my mother or my father held when they went to shul there's a difference there.
Some of the holidays like Simchastora, do you see a great difference in the observance as far as the shul is concerned over the years? Well it's sure it is, you know, they really let their hair down which they didn't. They did it in a way. I think the the cousin or so-and-so used to have a little bit too much wine sometimes. But I think more of the gaiety was held in the private home. I know in our home, my grandfather, you know, Granzig, and well that was the only grandfather we knew And Mr Fromm who was the cousin would come to our house and they would really have a regular jolly good time Mom always had them over to her house What did they do?
Huh? What did they do? Well they would drink wine and they would eat. They would drink too much wine. Did they sing as well? Yeah, yeah. I remember we were kids. That was on Belview Street. See, Mr. Frum brought his family here from Mobile, Alabama in 1912. That night, 1912. Did he come to be the Khazanadji? Yeah. And he was a lanceman of our family, of the Goranzics. He was a lanceman. They went to Hader together. Uncle Philip and Mr. Fromm went to Hader together. What was your synagogue affiliation when you were a child? What was what? Synagogue membership. Oh, well, Papa was, oh, how much did he pay?
No. What was he a member of? Or do you, let me talk about what he was. Papa was a member of, Papa was a member of Shubel, and I don't know of any other organizations that were. Well, it's our synagogue affiliation. He was a member of Sharathism, like that. Yeah, yeah, Papa was a member of Sharathism in the early days. And then, like I said earlier, he became a member to Sheriff Israel when we lived near there and we attended services there. Mama went because she wouldn't ride. And she wouldn't ride to Sheriff Israel. And then they were made members in both synagogues. When did you move to Park Row?
We moved to Park Row in 1936. No, no. we lived in two different houses on Park Row. In 1936, Mama and Papa were living on Forest Avenue, and across from where you live, they moved there in 1930, in that summer after Gladys Sedell married I think Gladys Sedell married you know Gladys Sedell Gronsick made her home mom and papa until she married And her wedding we were living on Park Row I mean on Forest Avenue but when she returned from her honeymoon we were living on Park Row That was in 1936 Where did you live on Forest Avenue? Do you remember the address? It was 6500 block.
Was that near Irby or closer to Forest High School? No, it was about a block before you got to, what was that street? Colonial? No, we were closer to the school. murder we were past Edgemere Atlanta Atlanta we were near Atlanta not too far part right across from Joshua now you were only a member of Sheriff Israel as you were growing up? And when you went to Temple Sunday School, did you have to become a member of Temple? No. They let kids go who were not necessarily. We just went. I was the only one that went. Did they charge people that did not? No. It was a courtesy of the service to the community.
I remember my teacher in the second grade at Temple was Emil Pondless's sister. She was very nice. I remember that. Did you find any problems in dealing with the kids in Temple or the parents in Temple, since most of them were from the German Jewish segment? No, we were so young it didn't make any difference in those days. Did they ever give you a bad time about being more traditional? No. Do you remember that? No, that didn't mean a thing. Uh-uh. Because my tradition was in my home more than any place else. But I know Saturday afternoon, two or three of us would meet and go to town every Saturday afternoon.
We walk to town and we go to a picture show something like that and then Majestic Theatre they had Vaudeville we go to the Majestic and then we stop in Nunnally which was an ice cream parlor and we get our ice cream sodas and that was it And we go to the library and change our books. We all went to the library and we, you know, exchange our books, get another book to read or so. Do you now hold more than one membership in the synagogue? No, I just, no, mine is just the sheriff Israel. You mentioned that your mother had a membership in Sheriff Israel and your dad also had in Deferre Israel.
Did they have individual memberships then or did they have family? They had a whole family membership? They had a whole family I guess. Papa was a member in both places. And when Papa passed away he was the oldest member, the longest member when he passed away. He was older than Ben White. He's been black. He's been homeless now. Do you know when he joined Sheridan? Papa joined as soon as he came here, 1902. So you've really never had any change in your membership or affiliations. What were some of the organizations you were a member of over the years? Well, I'm a life member of Hadassah.
I was one of the very first life members I joined in 1950. Mama was a member in our family with Felice and her children. I think we have four generations. In Hadassah? Yeah, Hadassah, his mama, Feliz, Marcia, or Adrian, Pam. That's right. They're four generations. And then I was a member of B'nai B'rith for a long time. And the work that I did for them that I enjoyed was after the Second World War, we had contact with the family in Europe, I think it was Austria. And I wrote to them and they requested certain articles which I sent to them. What I remember was that their daughter needed a lipstick.
She was a young lady going out. So I sent the lipstick and they were very appreciative. And I don't know what stopped the correspondence, except that it got very expensive and I was paying that expense myself. the club do not allow an expense of the postage and that became very expensive. And I remained a member of B'nai B'rith until about a few years. I was a member of the United States a few years longer. but the conditions changed for us and I was not able to pay the dues in all the clubs. I wasn't a member of Hadassah yet and I remember to pay my $4 Hadassah dues I put a quarter a week away.
That's how bad things were. It was during the Depression. Uh-huh. It was during the Depression. Okay. And things were bad for many people. and I was a member of Sisterhood, I'm a member of Brandeis now, I'm a member of Mizrahi, I'm a member of the Dallas Philological Society, and Sam was a member, he was vice president, and he used to give the word studies every month. And having his knowledge of Hebrew, English, German, French, Spanish, and every once in a while Italian, he would give the word study in all those languages and the members there just really enjoyed them. They just looked forward to Sam's word studies.
and he quoted the Bible, the New Testament, the Old Testament, and of course that was very receptive to them. Is the Philiological Society Jewish in nature, non-Jewish in Catholic area? No, no, it's non-Jewish. It was started by one of the professors at SMU and it to study languages and customs and people of different countries It very interesting We meet once a month One month we meet at the Dallas Public Library in the conference room, and another month we meet at the Museum of Natural History in their study room. It's very interesting and we all enjoy it. It's not a big group that comes but those of us who come find that it's worthwhile, most worthwhile.
Can you think of some of the other organizations you may be a member of? I think that's it. Is that it? Have you retained membership? You mentioned the B'nai B'rith that you gave up. Have you retained membership in all of these organizations over these years? Yes. Do you remember what year you joined Hadassah? I joined Hadassah right after I married. So that was in 19... 1929. Mm-hmm. And I was sisterhood right after I married. What about your cultural affiliations and civic affiliations? Do you have any special affiliations? Well, I have civic music. I was a member. For Dallas Symphony, when we first married, I used to get members.
You know, I solicited membership. And at that time, if you brought in so many members, you got your membership free. I remember I always got my membership free. And we're members of, we used to be members of what Dissolve this year, the SMU at Temple in Magna, what was that called? Dallas. I'm going to say Civic Music, but that's a community chorus. Community chorus, we remember that all the time. and what else? But we go to civic music and we still go to civic music. The ballet, the symphony. Oh we were a little theater when it was the Dallas Little Theater with Louis Hexner and Miss Sweeney and Mr Lipscomb All those.
And Hal Hensel was the director. We were, we had season tickets for that for a number of years, even until they moved out on Maple Avenue, and then it dissolved. Were you involved with Yiddish Theater? No, never with the Yiddish. I can understand a little Yiddish, but not enough. I can get by, but that's all. Did anybody go to the Yiddish school? No. Now you've mentioned generally where you've lived over the years. However, we might, you know, go over, and I think it'll indicate changes in the Jewish community where they lived. Did you always live in the middle of the Jewish community? Yeah, more or less.
See, when we lived down near what's now the Memorial Art Term, that was a good Jewish area there, But it wasn't as large as it was later. Now, that article on the Times-Herald or either the Morning News about the Jewish area, that was the second one as far as I was concerned. I remember the one that was closer to the downtown. It didn't extend any farther than Corinth Street. it wasn't any farther than Corinth Street and over not over just maybe to Harwood and then this when South Dallas was developed that area with Forest Avenue South Boulevard Park Road Grand Avenue and in through there well that was what this the newspaper wrote up but to me that was the second Jewish neighborhood.
Of course, it was extended, the area was larger because there were more Jewish people at that time and Forest Avenue High School is where most of the Jewish children went. I think the count when I was there in the office the count was a little over 14 percent Jewish children I remember that We took the count once Interesting Was there ever a larger percentage population at Forest High School than 14 percent? I don't think so. You think it was, the way the children participated, the way they were honors and this, that, and the other, but it was a little over 14%. About what year was that?
That was about 1925 or 1926. I remember that. When do you, as you remember, did the population shift from the current area in South Akron, this type of area, the north part of South Dallas to the south part of South Dallas? It was about, I would say, between 1916, about 1916. They started building on Park Row South. Well, Forest Avenue was opened up in 1916, so it was a little before. It was before then. It was before then. I see. but 1912 it was still down on Akron, all Akron and Caden's, Canton, that was in Irving, those were the two. Well, Temple was still down there, too.
On Irving Street at that time. And then when Temple moved, it followed the population. Temple was on South Boulevard, one in about 1925, that's when I thought of it. He asked me to move. When we were still living on Bellevue, we would go over to Lamar Street to get the streetcar to go to Ports Avenue High School. But when I went to what is now Bryant Street High School, I, a Crozier Tech now, we would walk. We walked to school. We didn't take the streetcar. Now, you walked to school from South Dallas? We walked from Bellevue Street. Bellevue Street. Yeah, Bellevue Street. Now after you moved from Bellevue Street, you moved to Forest Avenue, is that it correct?
Where did you move? After we moved from Bellevue Street, we moved to Park Road, that was the 2400 block. And then that house was sold and we moved to Forest Avenue. And then we moved to the 2516 Park Road. Okay, about what year did you first move from... Bellevue was your first house, is that correct? No, we lived in three different houses on Bellevue. Oh, okay, let's start from the first one. The first one was near where the Memorial Auditorium is. That was in 1902. Okay, so when? And then we moved to Bellevue Street, closer to Lamar, about 19, let's see, what would I say?
That would be about 1906 or 1907. And then we moved a block farther to Accord, closer to Accord, and that was about 1909 or 1910. And 1912, we moved to our own home. Mom and Papa bought that home in 1912. And where was that home? That was at 1209 Bellevue. It was right just a block from Akers. Okay, and previously they had at least rented them? Yeah, rented, rented, yeah. Okay, now then, after that, in 1912? Then we moved to 2400 Block Park Road. Then 25, I mean 60, 25. And then we moved to Forest Avenue in a rented house. I don't know why we moved from Bellevue Street where we owned our home to a house that we didn't own, but we did.
and we moved to Forest Avenue. It was a two-story rented house and that upstairs two-story was just awful. I mean, you know, we were old. It was hard for Mama to get up and down the steps. It wasn't good. So then we bought this house on Carpenter 2560 and that was a very comfortable home. That's where all of us. Good. Where all of you were, I'm sorry. You started to say, that's where all of you were. That's where all of us lived. And then after mama got sick, we all moved Francis and I moved back in there Francis and Harry and Sam and I and took care of my one And stayed there until the neighborhood changed And then in 56 we moved down to the north side here on Peyton 56.
Like the Warpaisal, I remember. Did you own... No, you mentioned that you didn't own your home up until you moved on to Forest. We owned the home at 12 on 9 Velvety Street and we owned the home at 2516. Sure. Sure. Now let's talk about the family structure over the years. How is the, well, do you remember any relatives living with you when you were in grammar school? Oh, yes. um papa's um when when we first came to dallas um mama's brothers mama's always been very close to all of her brothers the grandpa's children from the from her mother and then from her stepmother we were always close for her brothers very close and mama always did everything she could for her mama was just like a big sister and if they got sick they all came I remember they came to our house were they married did they have families no they weren't married they were all black bachelors or before they married I remember uncle will had tonsils removed and he came to our home When Uncle Will had his tonsils removed, he came to our home, and Mama always took care of all her brothers whenever they needed him.
She was right there. They respected her, and she respected them. And they knew they could always depend on Mama. Okay, about what year was that? It was about 1905 or 1906. Did you always have uncles or relatives? We always had somebody. Ours was always open house and it still is I glad to say Somebody walks in and they say have you had your dinner I say well any time you walk in here someone always eating so come on in I said that last night, it's been eating. They came in. They came over from a social function, and we all sat down and had supper last night.
It was okay. What was lifestyle like then, when you were growing up? About what year was the, you said what, about 1905, 1906? Six. Well, see, I was just a little girl then. And Mama didn't have all her children. Then there were three of us born in Baltimore and three of us born in Dallas. There were three boys in the family and three girls in the family. There were three redheads in the family and three blackheads in the family. It was evenly divided, well arranged. And we all always got along together and still knew and interested in each other and enjoy our family relationship, which we're so grateful for.
We really are. What was life like? I mean, you know, general day-to-day life when you were growing up. What did you do for recreation? What did you do? We didn't know what recreation was. We came home. We played with each other or with the neighborhood children when we were children. And we got our lessons, which was very important. And that was about all we did. We played out in the street. The boys did. They were with balls. They played out in the street. We had Jackson ball. And we had jump ropes. And that's what we did. That was our diversion. what about the girls and skills and stuff like well needle or sewing oh well i don't want growing up yeah i made quite a few uh uh embroidered embroidery and then we went into crochet and tatting came into style but i never learned to tat uh francis did some embroidery work and a lot of it was this solid work embroidery on linen with the padding underneath You patted it and the higher it stood up the prettier it was And so many many things were initialed You did your own embroidery initially which was very popular at that time I still have some of the things that I made, a number of things.
I remember a cousin of mine was getting married and I told her that I would embroider a white linen cloth for her. she bought this round white linen cloth and after I got it started she decided she didn't want one piece she wanted a set and well I wasn't about to make a set for her but I did make one for myself I used this center round cloth that I made and then I bought some linen and had some dollies made for the plates and I made some smaller ones for the glasses so I really have a rather it's expensive set from the standpoint of work it's scallops all the way around and flowers on the inside I still have it and I still use it and that's been oh about 60 or 65 years ago that I made that and that was needle embroidery that was embroidery solid embroidery yes I still have it I'll show it to you Now, did anybody live with your family while you were in grammar school for a long period of time?
Yes, Mama's cousins came down from Reading, and he lived with us for a long time until he married. Papa's brother lived with us, I remember, for a long time until he married. and some other cousins came down. That's right, from Redding, Pennsylvania. They were Mama's first cousins. They came down. You're saying long time, as long as six months? Oh, they stayed for several years. And then of course when my mother's niece Gladys Adele Goronczyk's mother passed away, her father gave her permission to live with her grandmother on her mother's side in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania for a few years. In 1921, she came back to Dallas, and Uncle Israel, her father, said that he would send her to a boarding school.
And I remember my answer to him was that with the family as large as ours, Gladys Adele would be able to live with somebody in the family. And so she came to live with us, and she lived with us until she married in 1936 or 1937. I think it was 36. So we always had somebody, not always, but I mean, we always tried to, our home was open. That was it. Anybody needed something that they could always get there. What did you do about bedrooms? I mean, if there were six kids in the family anyway, and then you had cousins in the family. Well, we had two beds in a room.
I remember the girls had one room. We had two beds in the room. There were three of us girls in glasses. They all made four. Oh, I see. Now, were they double beds or single beds? Double beds. And the rooms were big enough to accommodate? Yeah, they were big enough. Yeah, uh-huh. That's the way we did it. I don't know. You always made room. Mom and Papa used to have on Park Row, across the street from where you live, Mom and Papa had as many as eight English soldiers, RAF men. there to spend the weekend. I don't know where we put them but we had them all there.
There were eight of them and I remember them. Two of whom came to America and we keep in touch with them. We're friendly with them. Did you move away from your family home after you were married originally? Yes. And Francis also, did y'all move away? Yes, we had our own apartments. And then when Mama took sick in 51, we gave up our apartments. apartments and moved in to take care of Mama. And we just stayed that way. To this day, we remain as one family unit. So now you and your sister and brother-in-law and my brother Joe. We moved here on Pemberton. Papa was with us and Sam and I were together.
And that was in 56? Yes 56 we moved here And Papa passed away in 64 and Sam in 78 So it dwindles but that the years take their toll Did your father, what was your father's occupation? Papa was in the grocery business and then as the neighborhood changed to commercial why it went into, Brazley went into a cafe business started out making sandwiches and cold drinks and the next thing he knew you were cooking you were making hot dogs and then Brazley developed into a regular cafe business and that's what it was What was his occupation when he came to the United States? Did he have a trade?
I don't know that he had a trade, but as I mentioned earlier, he went to work in Baltimore as a cigar maker, handmade cigars, which were very popular in those days. When he came to Dallas, what did he go to? When he came to Dallas, Uncle Philip had a saloon. That was before Prohibition days, and Papa worked there for a while, and then he went into the grocery business with one of Mama's cousins, and they remained in the grocery business until 1925, when they dissolved the partnership, and Papa opened his own grocery store, a building that the family built. Where was the store? It was at Lamar in Powhatan.
The property belonged to my mother. It was left by her brother who died in 1912. Harry Baronsi died in 1912. And we built the store there in 1925. And that still remains in the family, that property, a little building. What was the grocery business like then in those days? Well, we used to, Papa used to deliver, delivered when he first started out with horse and wagon. And when Papa was in partnership with Mama's cousin, they used to sell cordwood. There lots and lots and lots of cordwood for heating because we didn have the modern heating facilities central heat and all that But in 1906 there was a flood in that area of town and I remember going to the edge of the flood water and the wood from Papa's Wood Yard, as we call it, just floating down, floating away.
And the water was inside the store, inside the grocery store, and they had just delivered quite a few barrels of sugar. Sugar came in 500-pound barrels. And in order to keep it from getting wet, they had to take those barrels and put it on top of the counter. But the whole store, most of the store was in water, Papa lost everything, Papa and his cousin. But the wholesalers knew that Papa would pay, and they filled the store again, and gradually Papa paid. Papa and the partner paid out. When did he go into business for himself? About what year did he go into the grocery store business for himself?
I imagine it was about 1903 or 1904. He didn't work long for Uncle Phillip. And then after that, when he went into the cafe business, about what did he go to the cafe business? It must have been about 1935, 35. Did your mother work outside of the home? Mama never worked at them. She was always in the house. She never went to the store and ran to go down and help in the store? No. Mama never did that. She never went into any kind of business venture. What about your occupation through the years? Well, during my senior year at Forest Avenue High School, the teacher in charge of the office was Miss Fanny Graves, who had been my Latin teacher in my first and second year And the Board of Education did not make provisions for enough help in the office So Ms Graves asked me to come into the office and do clerical work during my study halls which I did So then, when I graduated high school, and they really needed another clerk in the office, besides the secretary, why Mr.
Cawthorn, who was principal of the high school at that time, went to the Board of Education and asked them to make appropriations for a clerk. And since I already had the experience, they offered me the position which I accepted at the immense salary of $30 for 20 days' work. About what year was that? That was 19 and 19. They figured by month? Yeah, every four weeks was a school month. Ah, I see. And so it was $30 for 20 days' work. And I stayed with the Board of Education for 26 and a half years, working as clerk for a couple years and then secretary to the principal at Barthedon High School.
then two years before I married a secretary to Mr. Cawthorn who became the assistant superintendent of all the Dallas Public Schools and he was the most methodical man I ever worked for or worked with he had everything written down he knew exactly what he was going to do that day scheduled out everything and that's the way we worked He was just method through and through. And it was just like two years of heaven. Then after I married, they needed a study hall teacher at Forest Avenue High School, so I went into study hall. And I was a mean old study hall teacher with 128 pupils every hour.
But I had the satisfaction of a number of them coming back to me after they graduate and after being on their own in the world come back and tell me that they really appreciate that I had them study like they did and then once I They needed just one hour typing teacher, and Mr. Cawthorn had faith in my ability to teach, because previous to that, the Latin teacher had to go to court for a few hours, and they didn't want to pay a substitute, so they asked me to take the Latin class. I did, and we kept up with the class. We went through all the grammar work and exercises and things like that.
And so Mr. Coppon felt that if I could go on with the Latin, I could go on with anything else. So I took one class. He assigned me one class in typing, typing one in the first hour of school. I didn't know a thing about teaching. I hadn't had any teacher training, but I went through with it, and my pupils that I had went into typing 2, and not a single one of them made a grade lower than 80 in typing 2 under an experienced teacher. And I was very proud of my pupils. That's great. What year was it? Oh, good. It was right before I left, though.
It was about 27 or 28. And the pupils have told me after they graduated and they went to work or they went into business or something like that, sure, I'm glad you taught me how to type. I couldn't make a living if you hadn't taught me how to type. So that's another satisfaction that you have in the pupils. and I got along with my people most of them. What year did you teach at first? I taught from the time I graduated in 1919 to 26 years later. So, 45? Yeah, I quit in 43, I retired in 43, that's what it was. I retired in, wasn't that 26 years?
1919 would have been 20, uh, 45, 26 years. 26 years. Something like that. Yeah. 25 I quit in Florida I think I retired in 43 I don don know what I can say that Oh she retired in 43 Yes. Now, you've always been a housewife or homemaker since retirement other than volunteer work. What are some of the things you do in volunteer time or, you know, as far as... Well, I did Red Cross, you know, bandages and things like that. I didn't do a whole lot of volunteer work. I don't think I did. I did some. I never taught Sunday school. I didn't want to do any more teaching after I'd been in the school system.
But I just kept busy, you know, with club work and things like that. It took time. and then with the soldiers you know during the war that we had my mom and papa had so many soldiers over that that took a lot of time and effort I remember too it was during the rationing but we managed somehow or other to have those soldiers and give them what they wanted how we did it but we did it. And that's good to think about those things. Sure. Let's talk about intermarriage now. There's a lot of intermarriage in our day and time. In your immediate generation, was there any intermarriage in your family?
I have a brother that intermarried. And one little nephew intermarried. And I believe that's all in my family. Except grandnephews. I have a grandnephew that intermarried and a grandniece that intermarried. They don't live here, though, the two of them. I don't approve of it. And then I have a cousin that intermarried. But I think the cousin converted. The cousin that he married? No, his wife. the one that was non-Jewish converted. But I'm old-fashioned in that respect. But I'm cordial to them, you know. I try to be cordial to them but I don approve of it Have you seen within the family of these on the generations has there been a greater amount of intermarriage in the more recent generations than in your siblings Oh, there was a lot of it.
You know, when you look back and you think about it, divorces were, we heard of divorces in those days. My brother divorced his Jewish wife and then he married out of faith. And I know others who divorced, but they married Jewish people. And there's just so much of it, I just don't like it. Is there any incidents where the Jewish person has renounced Judaism in the family? Not in my family that I know of. Not in my family. Whether he's been under marriage or otherwise. Not that I know of. Well, how do you see the development of the Jewish community over the years that you've been here?
I think Dallas has had a good development. I think we've had some good leaders and not some good leaders. but I think the leaders of years ago were more were closer to their religion I think than the ones than the younger ones today I think they have a warmer feeling and not exactly I don't say they're dedicated they were so dedicated but they they felt a responsibility and I don't think that responsibility is felt today among some of our leaders it's just that I'm a leader and that's it but we do have a lot of participation, we have plenty of participation today in the Jewish community and in Dallas as a whole which is good, but I think a lot of it has a feeling of importance and who I am.
That's the way they impress me I could be wrong A lot of people like to hear their names called out And it doesn mean anything It doesn mean what it used to mean what it should mean What about the Jewish social scene? Some of the people have talked about Jewish debutantes. Are you familiar with that? No, I'm not familiar with that. Or that aspect of Jewish living? I'm not familiar with that, but to me it's not important. Well, do you feel it existed in a real sense? I think we did have something like that at one time. It was in conjunction with Israel Bonds, wasn't it?
No. Oh, what was it? No, they were Jewish debutants at the 20th. Okay, can you come in and tell us about that, Francis? Oh, yeah. I don't remember the names of them now. It's been so long ago. But they used to have a debutante ball right after the Idlewild. And I think after the second World War, it stopped. There weren't any more debutantes. And second place, everything became more democratic. You know, the people going into the club were not the original club founders. And a debutante was not what you would call their cup of tea. So, no, they did. They had debutantes every year. I don't remember that.
Yeah. I remember that for several years. I just don't remember when they stopped it, you know. Do you remember about what period of time? I would say that it was, now wait a minute. What I would remember would probably be from about... What I would remember would probably be from 1920 to 25 or 30 or something like that in that period of time. I know that it stopped abruptly. And the reason I think it stopped was probably because of the war. But that would go on into 40. I don't think it, I just don't think it lasted that long. Now what was it they used to have in conjunction with some of, was it Israel bombs?
Oh, but that was a different thing. That was, you know, they were presented to an ambassador or something like that. Oh yeah. of a presentation, but this was a real debutante. They were presented to society just like the Idlewild, and it always followed on the Idlewild. It was a large affair. It was beautiful, so I've heard, and it was done, you know, lavishly with the regular social graces that go along with a presentation like that. Now, were these restricted to the Colombian Club members only? Yes, uh-huh, yeah. And who were they? Oh, go ahead. They never had a large number like the non-Jewish clubs had, but they did have them.
I would say people like Beatrice Wertheimer were presented, maybe the Mittenfalls, maybe the Sangers, I don't know. The largest. The largest. I just don't remember the names of the individuals who were presented, but I would imagine it was in that class of people. And it was always restricted. They were presented to the rest of the Colombian club members. Is that it? Yes. It's fair. No, I don't think so. She's talking about Francis Massacre. I don't think she was ever presented. No. But when the Colombian club outgrew its present location, its location on Irby Street, I think they used to have it at a hotel. They'd run at the hotels downtown.
The Adolphus probably because that was the fashionable hotel at that time. What about the Baker? Did they do many things at the Baker? Or was it primarily the Adolphus that we used for the Jewish affairs or what? No, I think that both of them were used. After the Baker came, you know, was built, I think they used both of them. They were both used very well. What are some of the other things you remember about the Jewish community that really impressed you? I remember the visit of Golda Meir to Dallas in 1949. And I remember when she spoke, it was at the Baker Hotel in the Crystal Ballroom.
They asked for funds to build little houses to eliminate the tents I forgotten what it cost I think it was to build a house a prefab so that they wouldn have to live in the tents And that's what they did. Julie Sheps was chairman of that function. And they collected money. We were all there. That was the time she said, somebody asked her about the South African Jews. She said, they give more proportionately than any Jews in the world. And she said, they are really fine Jewish people that live in South Africa. That was my first contact with an expression like that about the Jewish people in South Africa.
Of course, since then, you know, you've heard about them in many ways. But also, Eddie Cantor came here to raise funds for Israel right after it became a state. And we used to have, you know, some really personalities that came here to talk for the state of Israel. And it's, you know, first, it's formative, formative years. He spoke at the Daphis Hotel. He was at the Daphis Hotel. Now, was that for Federation? No, I don't think it was Federation. For Israel bonds? No, Israel bonds wasn't in existence then. It must have been, maybe it was for Federation. I just don't remember that part of it.
But I know that Israel was the theme. Okay. Was it after 47? Yeah, it was after 47. So between the 47. The mayor was here in 49. I remember that. Cousin Shana was here from South Africa. Uh-huh. Yes. Yes. Let's talk about Federation. and the organization of federation of the participating leadership as far as Jewish federation is concerned. They had that Cohen woman there in charge at first. Do you remember her? And then Mrs. Kahn, Rose Kahn, was in charge of the family service, I guess you'd call it. Do you remember? what turned out to be family service do you remember what year that was or the era she was killed was killed I know about 1933 when was the Chicago Fair I think 34 Well that wasn she was killed 33 maybe.
It was housed, you know, on Powhatan. It had many dances and affairs there. It was small, but we didn't realize it was small. And I would say that some of the happiest and most joyful days in my life were at that community center because that was the group that I went with, that I was in. There may have been an older group, too, you know, that went there, too, but that was really the meeting place where we had all our social events. Did all phases of the community, all Jewish kids, gather there? And this, I assume, no? No, I don't think so. Okay. I don't think any Reformed children did.
That's what we wanted. I don't think so. What about the Reformed kids? Well, I had so little contact with them. I think that they had, well, they had the Columbian Club, but the Columbian Club wasn't way out then. Oh, the Columbian Club was on Garland Road. Correct. And I think that they probably went to the Columbian Club at that time. Well, not all of them were affluent, were they? What about the, or was their open policy as far as the kids were concerned? Were all the kids, Columbia Club strictly had to do with affluence, didn't it? I think so. I think it did. Well, I don't know if the kids were.
Well, you have to understand that the city was not as large as it is today. and if we didn't know each other personally, we knew off most of them because most of them went to Forest High. There were some in Woodrow, there were some in other schools and I'm sure some of them went to private schools, you know. But if you take that Stanley Marcus and Francis Sanger, her name was Fanny Sanger at that time, that they went to Forest High so you can understand and the Mittenthals and the Kramers all of them went to Forest High so you can understand that that area that that produced, the school produced a conglomeration of Jewish students.
It wasn't confined to just a financial level. And it was a little after that that they began to have private schools and they went into private schools. But at that time, everybody went to Forest High. And the Narcosis? Yeah. So what you're saying then is as far as the social context or as far as the school context and living, the neighborhood was basically cut the barrier. I'm going to use the word barrier of the affluence the affluence was not the factor at all it's the neighborhood but when it came to the social life then the kids most of the affluent kids would be in the Colombian club now was that fairly restrictive in relationship to the Orthodox and the Reformed community as well I would say that it was as well as I remember I personally felt no embarrassment or sensitivity in not going in that group.
I was happy with my group, and we all enjoyed each other. We were respectable. We came from respectable parents, but hardworking parents. And we had our own activities and our own social life, which was worthwhile. What were some of the social functions you had? Well we went to dances a lot. That was one of the prevalent things. We went to the Baker Hotel and the Peacock Terry's it was called. That was so popular at that time and we had dances at the center and we had picnics through Young Judea or some group like that, you know, and... And picture shows. And shows, yes, we went to shows.
We went to the outdoor activities that were at maybe at Fair Park or things like that, you know. Mm-hmm. have all the cultural advantages that we have now because the city it just wasn't there. You had to live in a large city to be able to have all the advantages that we have now like operas and things like that. But we did. The community was beginning to become alive. You know I think that was it. What era now your span are you referring to? I'm referring to the span let's say, from around 1920 to about 1950, something, 48, something like that. And then, you know, those families who put in all this hard work, they were beginning to reap the labors of their work, and their children were going to college and mixing with other students through sororities and fraternities and honorary like that.
And then they came into being and they became members of Columbian Club, rightly, you know. And so this kind of changed the entire social structure as it did in everything. It did in federation and everything. Okay, let's talk about federation now. How did the structure change in Federation, say, from the 1920s to the 1940s? Well, I really wasn't interested in Federation at that time. It was a quiet kind of a thing. So what did they help the transients that came through? or they were able to be of aid to local residents who needed what they had to offer. And that was about all. We really never had any contact with them.
Once in a while they would have an application for scholarship assistance. I remember the century. I don't know. You know, it was college. To what, to school, to college you mean? To college, I don't know. And that was, you see, that was what, that was their entire responsibility was to the local community that needed it And of course they did send to colleges I sure like Drought C or some Jewish colleges and highest I sure You know but we weren really directly involved in it. I see. What about at that time, the United Palestine Appeal, which later became United Jewish Appeal, was that part of Federation at that time or do you know?
I don't remember. Overseas funding? I would imagine that it was, but I'm not sure. I remember when they had the Heber massacre 50 years ago. That was 29. They did try to get some money for that. I don't know what method they used, but I remember. Well, I'm sure that they also aided the Russian immigrants that came here in such amounts, you know, so many of them, during probably from 1900 to 1920 or 30, before the First World War probably, or right after, too. I'm sure there was eight given them, too, you know. And so this was really what comprised the... Oh, it was local.
What about the leadership? Were they reformed? They were reformed? Yeah. Oh. Well, most of them were reformed, but then you had people like Aaron Kaplan came in. And then you had A.J. Smith and you had Uncle Philip on the board and you had Louis Kleiman. And Mr. Sablesky. And Mr. Sablesky. And they just gradually came in because they became qualified to come in. Not because of their means, but because of their conscience and their ability. Oh, okay. So they really worked hard as far as the ranks were concerned. They were conscientious. Do you feel that the leaders were more justifiable leaders than they are? I don't think the circumstances are the same.
I don't think the circumstances were the same. You have to take into consideration the world thing today. And I think today that we have some qualified leaders and some aren't qualified leaders. and I'm sure that was just as true in their day. I feel that that was just as true. But they were sincere in those days. They really wanted to help and do something. Do you think it was stronger leaders? That they had a greater proportion of the population that acknowledged them as a leader as opposed to the leaders of today I think so We all looked up to them We all looked up to them but then the world has changed you know Now attitudes are not the same because economics are not the same, you know, and education isn't the same.
Don't forget these people were educated people, and we weren't in a way. but now you every sons and daughters go to college just like you you know and so you have a different rapport with them than we would have ever had with leaders you can hold your own with them and Mike too what was it like during the depression years well You mean the 33 in the 30s? Some of our people committed suicide. Some of our Jewish people. There were Jewish people who committed suicide in Dallas. Yeah, it was bad. They just couldn't take it. Some of them had been leaders. And now they couldn't hold their head up.
And they committed suicide. I know, too. It didn't affect us. No, it didn't affect us. You see, it didn't affect our family and our friends too much because we lived within an income. You see, we didn't have investments, and our income was from our salary, and we lived within that salary, and we didn't go beyond what we could afford. So it really didn't affect us as much as it did people of means who had investments and couldn't make out. Under payments. Yeah. There are several families that had to lower their standard of living because of that, you know. But it didn't affect us. Were those that lowered their standard of living, were they able to handle it?
as far as the attitude of the community was there was their acceptance of that without any great problem did they feel shame or what was the attitude yeah at that point in time well I think they came back I don think anybody changed their attitude toward them You know, I mean, they had friends, and their friends remained friends, and if they couldn't take part in the community, they didn't take part in the community. But there was no disrespect. They were just as respectable. They came back sooner or later, you know. Some of them didn't. Okay. like the Yonics and Climates. These were some of the real families that we all looked up to with great respect and admiration because they had money.
And they lost their money. They didn't lower their standard of living too much. And children suffered more, I think, because they couldn't go. I mean, I mean, bitter. But it was mostly, as far from what you're saying, the community didn't, even though they weren't able to participate as much financially. Well, yes, you're saying, if I'm understanding you correctly, money did have something to do with it. Yeah, they placed the community even then. Yeah, sure. And of course some of them felt it very severely. Yeah, it's no different. That part of it hasn't changed. But they just took a back seat, but they didn't seem to mind it.
And their friends were still friends, you know, and that's the way it was. They just let it over. Can you think of any other things that we need to be talking about as far as the community is concerned? Well, one thing that we noticed was the change in the downtown structure for Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur. Ah, tell us about that. There was a time when every store kept closed for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. One day Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. That was Sanger's, E.M. Cain's, Leon Cain's, Teich's, Neiman's, Harrison's. Any Jewish store downtown was closed. One day Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. Do you remember up until about what year that went on?
I don't remember. Now, E.M. Cahn, Ruth Cahn made the remark. E.M. Cahn was the last one. They continued. They were the last one that didn't keep open. I don't remember what year. You don't remember about what year? Uh-huh. I don't remember what that was. It was a breakdown. But you could go to town. You couldn't buy anything. Now, Jews, of course, what you're saying, were very prominent in the retail business as far as clothing is concerned. Oh, yeah. What about real estate? No, there wasn't too much real estate. No, there wasn't real estate like we know it today. Okay. Not like we know it today.
Now, Uncle Will was in real estate. Uncle Will Garancic, he was in real estate. But I don't really know of anyone else that was in real estate because Henry Miller's father wasn't in real estate. He had a grocery store in South, oh, off of Eckerd Street. Henry Browner and... Sam Miller. He was president of Sheriff Israel at one time. And so Henry came into it on his own. Henry Miller Sr. came into it on his own. He went into real estate. He's one of the first ones that I remember that ever went into real estate among the Jewish people. About what year was that, do you know?
I don't know. I would say that, you mean when Henry Miller Sr. went in? Oh, let's see. It's hard to know. It is hard to remember. 30s, maybe 30. In the 30s? Maybe. Maybe, I'm not sure. Yeah. What were some of the other things that Jewish people were very active in as far as their occupations were concerned? Oh, them had stoers. Oh, them had individual stoers. Aaron Pan had a little man's furnishing store. Uh-huh, and the Dunn. Do you remember the Dunn had a little stoer? That's recent, but that's the way most of the Turners, you know, The sons went into the father business Some of them were in insurance Some of them were in insurance A few of them were in insurance Kaufman's.
Sam Kaufman. Uh-huh. Well, and... Reinhardt. Reinhardt was in insurance. That was an old family we didn't mention then. Yeah. And there was another, you know, the one that had a California Western States insurance company, Rosenbaum's. Oh yeah, the Rosenbombs. That's right, yeah. Rosenbombs were there. They're in the name of Marcus and Schofield. Uh-huh. What about the title company of Hexter? Hexter's a lawyer. Well, Mr. Hexter was a lawyer. The father, Victor Hexter, a grand old man. And when Jules came into it, they... And Louis. I mean Louis. Louis, because Jules was in New York. Yeah, Louis. Lewis went into the title business rather than the law from his father, but that was the beginning of the real estate, don't you see?
I see. The beginning of the real estate, so Lewis came into that. He was a very, he was a farsighted person. Lewis was very farsighted. Now, um, Dermas was one of the, um, seats of the anti-Zionists in the early 40s. Was what? One of the centers, really, of the Antisiasis in the early 40s. What was it called? American... Council for the Judaism. For Judaism. Do you... What are some of your recollections? You know, I have a letter that Hootkins, Seymour Hootkins, wrote. I read it to you last night that I found in Sam's papers, and I still have it. I didn't throw it away. How he objected to some of the newspaper things and so on.
about Israel. Well, almost all of those were in the reform element. There was Fred Florence. Rabbi Lethkowitz was a fence sitter. He didn't go either way, but he didn't go for it, you know. And Crossman, Jerome Crossman. And Tonkin. Oh, Tonkin was rabid. Rabid. and Harry Cohn was also in it but not in prominence like the others were but these were almost all from the Reform element up in the high high Reform element too I don know of any Weird. Yeah, yeah. I don't know of anyone that was with our synagogue or the other synagogues that were affiliated with it. Well, many of the Reform...
Oh, I think Stanley Marcus was, too. I think he was part of it, too. Were any of the prominent Reformed people pro-Zionist? They didn't speak out for it. They may have been pro-Zionist, but they didn't make their voices heard. Now, you mentioned Young Judea having been here. Do you happen to remember about when that was founded? Well, when I was in it, it was about 1920, 22, 23. I was in it probably around 22 and 23. because I look back at pictures and I was born in 1906 so that this, I was about 16 years old on these pictures that I recall when we had Young Judea and it was popular.
I don't remember who our sponsor was. Do you know? No, don't remember who the sponsor was. I think Jenny Zestmore took a part in some of these youth activities but I didn't come in contact with her. Up until what year? About what year was it functioning? Did it stop? I don't know. I don't remember when it stopped. Oh, why did it stop? Do you know why it happened to stop? I don't know why. Well, are there any other things that you can think of as far as the community is concerned? I think we were a good Jewish community in that well you know from my standpoint I have to just look at it from my own standpoint we were observant willingly you know we felt a kinship to our to the Jewish community we felt a personal responsibility to the community and as I said before there weren that many Jewish people that you couldn feel a degree of belonging you know There weren't that many organizations, you know, we didn't have that many organizations here, so that like it is now, if you're in one or two, you don't know three or four, and different people in different organizations, but at that time you almost belonged to whatever was going on.
Were you involved at all your parents in the Hebrew Free Lomit Society? Yeah. We still have some receipts that mom and papa gave that they gave for their dues and also to the we have some receipts where mama gave a dollar every year to some yeshiva in Chicago I still have those receipts, the Jewish National Fund, you know. Yes, what about some of the things the Jewish National Fund, was there a general awareness here? Yes, because way back, I have a letter, we have a letter that Papa received telling him where he had a denim of land in Balfouria, and we still have that letter.
They contributed to it every year until they paid out that denim. I'd like to have a copy that letter for archives or have the letter when you're ready to get to our I know I have it I just have to find it now I trust you have some of the memorabilia for archives that you'll let us have and pictures as well very important very oh I have a proper wedding picture that'd be great and then and their marriage license in Hebrew. We have it framed. It's hanging up in the hall. What was, I want to ask you about the boundaries of the cedars. Now Rogers in his book on Dallas mentions the neighborhood of the cedars.
Can you tell me what the borders of that neighborhood would be? No, but it was more or less, I don't remember that it was called the Cedars, but that's what it was called when we first came here. And I would say that maybe it was as far as St. Louis Street. Yeah, probably. And where on the west or east? Was that between, right? I would say it took in, I don't know whether it went as far as Harwood. Okay. I used to hear Mama talk about it too, but I was so little I didn't. And I would say as far as St. Louis Street maybe.
Okay. And the south? Far south is? Well, that's south. Okay. How about far north then? St. Louis would be probably young maybe the Sheelines I don't remember the family but I remember the name young and accurate there was a large red brick and I think it was apartments and I believe the Sheelines lived there I didn't know them except I remember their name being mentioned several times and I would say that I probably went back to Marion Street around Canton and St. Louis because there were many Jewish families that lived in that area. The Rudbergs lived there. I don't know just many many Jewish families lived in that area.
Malowitz's and Bernstein's. Oh I don't know it was just just one home after another were Jewish people and then on Katy Street there were a number of Jewish people too that lived that if I would think about their names I could recall them but I just haven't heard them in a long time all right now did that go back to Irby and Harwood or from say Akron yeah through to Harwood that particular area was called the city's then? I would say it at least went as far as Irby because the Sanger family lived on the corner of either Katie or Canton in Irby had a large home and there were all large homes in that area I wouldn say it went that far Harwood I don remember Harwood being part of that area But then it would be really closer to Irvey and between Irvey and Akron.
There were large homes there. Oh yeah they were large homes beautiful homes and the Silverstein there's a Silverstein school. They lived right across from the Sangers on Irvey and Katie's, I think. The Toplitz family lived there. All right, now Silverstein. That was Asher Silverstein. That's right. Was he Jewish? Yes. Okay. As far as I know, he was Jewish. Okay. All right. Anything else? Oh, did that, excuse me, did that go as far down as Corinth? Or do you know? I don't think it, well, no I don't think it went as far as Corinth. But just till Canton and Cadence? That's what I would think, St.
Louis and St. Louis probably. Okay. It probably stopped right there. Okay, that was just north then of where the synagogue would have been on Park, is that correct? Yes, yes, uh-huh, that's right. Is there anything else you care to add that you can think of? well you bring up the ideas because I don't think of them you know I can't think of anything else if you do well if we think of anything we'll just write it down and you can speak into it yourself okay I thank you and we've been talking with Francis Garber Francis Wolf Garber along with Jenny Blumenthal Thank you.