Joan Gremont
Joan Gremont was born in 1949 in Johannesburg, South Africa, into a warm and loving family. Like roughly 85 percent of South African Jews, her family came from Lithuania, arriving between the 1890s and the early 1900s, drawn by the country's booms in gold, diamonds, and ostrich feathers and fleeing hardship in Europe. She recalls spending every holiday, including Passover and Rosh Hashanah, with her mother's family in a small coal-mining town called Witbank. Her father was an attorney who married at 38 and lived to 92, remembered for his humor, while her mother was beloved by everyone. Joan grew up with a brother and a younger sister in a Jewish home that was Orthodox by affiliation but not strictly observant, always gathering for Shabbat dinner.
Joan met her husband Boris at university in Johannesburg, where she earned a degree in sociology and criminology and he trained as a chartered accountant. They married in 1971 and had a daughter in 1974 and a son in 1976. The Soweto uprising of 1976 and the surrounding unrest frightened the young couple, and they decided to leave for the sake of their children's future. After exploring Toronto and several American cities, they immigrated to Dallas in 1978, where Boris had a position with a furniture import company and about twenty South African Jewish families already lived. Joan returned to South Africa nearly every summer for years so her children could know their family and heritage.
In Dallas, Joan realized she wanted a profession of her own and earned a library science degree from the University of North Texas. She went on to start numerous libraries from scratch within the Jewish community, including at Solomon Schechter, the original Levine Academy, Akiba, and the Holocaust museum, and she ran a library at the JCC for ten years and later created a library for the Holocaust studies program at UTD. Deeply Zionist and proud of her Jewish South African identity, she instilled a love of Israel in her children; her daughter studied and lived there for years. She cherishes family heirlooms, including spoons over a hundred years old that traveled from Lithuania to South Africa to Dallas, and hopes her grandchildren will treasure their culture and heritage.
Full Transcript
Joe 1949 Johannes Berg South Africa what do you remember when your little girl I remember a wonderful childhood I was very fortunate I had loving caring parents and and a big extended family and we spent a lot of time with him do you remember your grandparents very well my mother's parents who lived 80 miles away in a small coal mining town called witbank and my mother siblings lived there as well and we would go there every holiday every Passover every Rosh Hashanah and spend time with him i hated going there because i wanted to be with my friends and go to shul and that's when
we got our new clothes for the holidays and we weren't allowed to so I saw them a lot and my mother had three brothers who live there with their families my father's family we saw less often but we were very close to two family now where did they originally come from where are they from South Africa all from Lithuania my parents are both first-generation so they like almost eighty five percent of the Jews in South Africa well it sucks and my father's mother came in the luck 1894 and my other three grandparents came in the very early 1900s they've been a Boer War they also
called at the war of the English or the war against the English and that was ended in 1902 and that's when a lot of little rocks came to South Africa I was there a special reason why they would come to South Africa well I know why they left lithuania vehicles programs but as there was big booms in South Africa there was gold and diamonds and also there was a very big ostrich feather industry and obviously people from this fearful came and encouraged others to come and join them you know God Africa did your grandparents ever talk about their life when they were young up in
never and that is why I think it's so essential that we do this for our children because I would love to know about their life in Lithuania and their immigration and how difficult it was how they were separated from their families her father would come in my my father's father or grandfather I think came on with two children and then his wife came later with some of the other children right right um you know compare our immigration to that as was so easy and so wonderful compared to what they went through now those families you're such the grandparents today families know each other back in
Lithuania can I like to think they did and I keep thinking you couldn't move around easily so obviously you married somebody from the state saying sniffle or the shit'll next door right but I don't I don't have an answer to it that's before now you're you're a little girl tell me what it was your life like what did you what did you do for fun what did i do for fun I had wonderful girl friends and we spend a lot of time together we paid a lot of imaginative games or just what i really wish kids could still do today post office and school and
we library we'd create our own little libraries funny that i became a librarian in the end but so those seeds were sown and i was very young played a lot of sport tennis and i just had a really wholesome wonderful life we were very very fortunate tell me about your parents now what's your dad do my dad was an attorney he was at 38 when he got married so he was much older but it was very established and he's really one of my heroes love my dad he lived to a wonderful age of 92 and was hardly sick a day in his life and he
had the best sense of humor and there's not a day that goes by where we don't quote one of his jokes or I say something about my father he doesn't want to show you can tell us well funny that we were talking about it last night he was talking about her a Jewish man who was swimming in the ocean and was a laugh God saw he was kind of struggling and he ran out to get him he swam out in the ocean to get him and as he picks him up he said to the little Jewish man are you comfortable and the man said this
not the time to talk business and we love it every time I hear somebody say are you comfortable I think of my father's joke right right and my mother was such a lady she da until these drugs over and over again and she loved every time my mother on the other hand was a very wonderful woman in every respect she's loved by everybody wherever she is everybody loves her and honestly whenever people compliment me about something I do or I say or unlike I always give credit to my mother because she told me everything on earth right now what was your Jewish life like in
South Africa and compared to what Jewish life well that's a good question because we were all Orthodox Athenians were Orthodox but we were non-practicing Orthodox you either belonged to an orthodox shul or you belong to a reform shell the German Jews started the reform shells and really I as far as i remember only German Jewish South Africans belonged to the reform so we all belong to the Orthodox but we weren't Orthodox right so you know we'd go twice a year on the holidays sometimes I've gone friday night but we all had Shabbat dinner we all live candles we all have our hello we used to
call it the Kitka which I believe as a Lithuanian name and the family was always together for Shabbat tonight and if we wanted to go act we could go out afterwards you have two siblings what school did the three of you go to well interestingly if we went to what we call a government school what she would be called a public school Tuesday schools were just taking root in South Africa at the time and a lot only my parents ever entertain the idea of sending us to a Jewish day school so we went to a wonderful down the road primary school called sexanal primary school
which was wonderful it probably was fifty percent Jewish or maybe more and then I went to a girl's high school and my brother went to a boys all boys high school and you have a sister and a brother your sister older and my sisters young and she wants the same high school you do that okay where did you meet your husband we made at university actually okay we were on a committee that raised the charitable were raised funds for charities and we both worked on this committee and that's what university was there was called a little art restaurant University of the third part is runt
which at the time was the only english-speaking university in Johannesburg and we all went there was wonderful it was an extension of high school so now what are you thinking what what are your dreams what are you going to be when you grow up now that you're in college what are you thinking what are you going to do with yourself no clue because my father said to me you have to go to university to get an education right at that time I think South Africa was about a generation behind America and my father and parents never said to me you need a profession you need
a career it was always in education now outside of South Africa are you aware of like the United States things going on in the United States is probably around the time of the Vietnam War no no TV until 76 we're talking 60s late 60s when I was at University so we knew about it right but not really very you know we couldn't we didn't have visions of what no why was television not available you know that such a good question and I don't know if it was because of censorship and it was a the white government didn't want us to see what was happening in
the rest of the world or how blacks and whites mixed in the rest of the world I'm not sure so you were very insulated baby you know you know in the country there because you know when we talk to people a lot of times we just ask them to talk about the first time they got a television set and you know obviously it's a lot sooner than what you were talking so how did you get your information on the outside world we read a lot and our movies if we went to a movie there was always a newsreel in the we stood there was their
turn what they called it but then they'd beard newsreel and some trailers then an intermission and then a movie started so we would see I think it was could have been BBC News or other news events before a movie started okay now when did you guys get married we got married in 71 okay and then what did you settle down to do what what did your husband do what were you doing he he did a business degree and then became a call to see a chartered accountant in South Africa I might agree was in sociology and criminology and I worked in a human resources right
right but it wasn't a career it was just a means of working until our families I started my family okay and then where were your kids born in South Africa daughter in 74 in our son in 76 okay and then what did you come to the United States 78 okay so how did this evolved to you know you have your family your husband has a career you're working how did the United States even get on the horizon but we really would not politically involved at all maybe a little bit as college students University students you know we realized that something wrong with a party it
didn't seem right but honestly we didn't do anything about it and makes me feel terribly guilty now but at the time it wasn't even on our radar right but in 76 there were the rights called the Soweto rights when the government tried to impose the learning of Afrikaans the stach language under the black students in black schools schools were segregated at that time and the sewage is an enormous black Township just outside of Johannesburg and rioting started there and spread to other black townships and where we lived in a suburb called Center net was very close to another Township smaller than sweater called Alexandra Alexandra
and we were petrified I had we had our daughter and I was pregnant with our son and immediately packed up everything I went to live at my parents house because they were further away from the townships and the writing and I just thought I said dreams of people coming down the streets with knob carries and sticks and stones and I was too scared and I said I can't live here I don't know what the future is for this country this is the time for us to leave and we are young and when our children are young and so how did the United States get on
your list you know I often say we could have gone anywhere we could have been happy in Australia maybe in Israel but we Boris's brother lived in Toronto so we went on a big visit and we went to a few cities in the United States and in Toronto to Toronto did you take your children with you okay we went from four weeks my parents looked after our children so even that though how difficult was that leaving your kids for four weeks to go on the other side of the world we had to do it we had to do it because we knew that we we
had to leave there and we had to see we were fortunate in that we could go and visit and see where we wanted to go so Toronto wasn't an option because my sister North the time said I don't have gold in Toronto so I thought we're going to move here for them and they're making a move on somewhere else so that ruled out Toronto and then honestly it was wherever you could get an opportunity and it happened to be in in Dallas and how did that opportunity come about we they were probably 20 South African Jewish families in Dallas at the time and we were
connected with some of them and somebody knew somebody who would go into we would offer Boris a position and that's how it happened now how do you come home and so did you come down the dells when you were in Toronto I don't know I think it was the next visit that visit was also kind of blocking her and we went to Vegas in California and New York you know all the hot spots and then a year later we said okay now this is a serious visit to find some way to immigrate to and then we did go back to South Africa and you know
I've got to credit my parents they never said oh please emigrate you must go it's the best thing you could do but they're never stopped i'll send you what we were doing and while it didn't encourage us we just knew that they felt it was the right thing for us okay now you make the decision to come here other the two of you tell your families that we're about to go to the united states they must have sensed it they I don't even remember you know the actual conversation telling them it must have been loved it was harder to tell our friends and because we
want we had to put our house on the market large to sell a house but we weren't quite sure when we were leaving and we had to make up stories about where we going where we staying and it was a very very sensitive subject at the time now horse did he have a firm position waiting for him then yes he did okay okay what company was that with it was a furniture and a furniture import company okay okay so now it's 1978 you're packing up your small children did they have any recollection of this mover where they just too young I don't think they could
have no I'm sure not okay so they really don't have the history knowledge of their history of being back in South Africa not at the time but I've been has 34 years right I've been back 34 plus x my husband always laughs and says she looked you're 34 years being back 34 Tess you more than 30 for the year my father passed away I went back a couple of times my mother was ill and I made extra trips back and for the first probably 14 12 14 years I would go back every summer with the children okay and then you would take them to all
the places and everything you know and they'd be with a family right and that was the best thing I don't regret that for one minute did any more of your family come to the States my brother originally emigrated to Israel and they went back to South Africa and then he and his family emigrated to San Diego okay how did you find the Jewish community here compared to the Jewish Way of life back home different it's no different for example we went to unfortunately a funeral the other day and I was telling my daughter how how different funerals were in South Africa and still are today
than they are here and it's interesting after 34 years I'm still getting used to the changes how is that funeral different well in South Africa you would have a small service enough I think of room that they called the ohel ohe l and then you'd carry the body to the the grave but what they do it they would call up all the men six six or eight minutes of time probably six to carry the coffin to the grave and depending on how many men were there that is how many stops were made with this coffin so if there were a lot of men the rabbi
had a list of the names and he'd call up six and they'd carry it and maybe just walk 10 yards call up another six and I would go another 10 yards and the reason for this is they're delaying the actual burial so and it was always brave sad right there was never you know a room where everybody went in to where they were eulogies never never never was all done grave sad now you've been in Dallas you know over 30 years what changes have you seen in Dallas because it wasn't not the big city it is today when you first got here big changes but
I'm more interested in talking to people who've been here forever and asking them what their but how they feel about how Delos looks today and in fact I was with a friend the other day who was born here and left out her laughed and I said please take me to South Dallas with the Jews used to love I want to see what Jewish life was like in South days all those years ago so how do you see the culture the Jewish community compared to how you were raised I think what is unique about South African juice is we were all very Jewish and we were
all very Zionist Israel was such a part of our lives all my friends are con talk for young South Africans big we were all in his nihilist youth group and just loving Israel and wanting to go there was just part of who we were for example in the six-day war broke out I was at University at the time and friends of mine male friends not woman look called up to serve in volunteer positions and I'll never forget that scene at the airport we went to see them off but there wasn't any question about it Israel was our country so there was the Zionism part and
then there was the Jewish pot and we identified ourselves as Jewish South Africans we were Jewish first right we never felt I never felt truly South African but I was a Jewish South African and do you think your children had the same feelings you had or just because they were raised here in Dallas that it's been different for them well interestingly enough our daughter in her final year of college wanted to go to Israel and she finished her degree at the University of Jerusalem University and so and then stayed on for another six years so she must have got the love of Israel from us
tell me about your son our son will had a Bar Mitzvah I went to Jewish day school now that's interesting my daughter daughter did not go to Jewish day school she went to public schools a son went to a Jewish day school until his Bar Mitzvah and then went to public school and but he did the teen tour when he was in I think it's 10th 11th grade and he went to Israel had the most wonderful time and said he can't wait to go back and he's never been back so two children same families same parents for that them for you and your husband coming
here what was the big culture shocks for you well I'll see what what for me was a culture shock was I had this degree Bachelor of Arts degree no career no profession and when we came a ciliated was just after american airlines and i think JC penney headquarters had moved here and I used to have all these new color groups and they'd invite all they were willing to them to the methyl groups and a friend are not myself she had also come at the same time and our children went to one of these meetings and everybody introduced themselves as mrs. Joan Raymond and I thought this is I'm sorry mrs.
Barrus Gramont and I thought this I'm called by my husband's name no that's not what I'm gonna do and then they asked well what does your husband do and I suddenly realized I have to get a profession and it was after that that I went to university of north texas and did my lobby science degree because i knew i had to be it somebody in my own right and so what did you get into well I've been in the Jewish community in libraries I've been very very fortunate in that I've started a number of libraries from scratch I don't know how many librarians will say
they've done it and I've been within the Jewish community for all those libraries in all those loud recept and solomon schecter the original levine academy and kiba and the holocaust museum and here at the JCC started or I let's say I computerized the card catalog and I ran their title library for 10 years and most recently the utd echamos interval holocaust studies are created a library for them was the happiest time in your life probably when my children were born and when the day I got married walking down the aisle and my father's arm was just a dream country if you could change one thing
in your life what would you change easy the South Africa was a safe wonderful place that we never had to leave or that we a place that we felt comfortable letting in with a young children I just hate that I've left my family and that we're not together that's not what should have happened did anybody other family members of yours or your husband's come and join you guys in the States yes 13 years later Boris's younger brother Norman and his wife and two children came and that was the best thing ever it was wonderful and changed our lives completely now in your lifetime you live
through so many momentous occasions none probably bigger than you guys traveling to a foreign land to start over and to raise your family but there's been so many things on the national scene in the world 911 a terrible tragedy is there something that really affected you that you took notice of you know what really affected me I think having this wonderful life as a young person in South Africa and then and they were guests yes shortages and I just realized that well this is the first thing that really has inconvenienced me i was living in something in that side if it gets a ton so
it must have been the 70 the war in the 70s 76 and wow that really put me out you know things were not going to be the same because we didn't live through world wars and we didn't live through any in South Africa anyhow now you have the two children of course in three grandkids knowing how you were raised knowing the technology that you had when you're young to what we have today what advice does grandma have for those grandchildren in the next generation well you know every time I get upset that my grandchildren done live in Dallas to live in Bethesda Maryland one is
in Austin and I think wow look what you did to your parents when you took their four-year-old interior old halfway across the world with no Scott and not as easy to telephone and I just feel blessed in a way that said that they are around here and I really think that my advice to them is to to learn about family about culture about our Jewishness and to know how important it was and is and how what we South Africans have brought with us to Dallas is what our grandparents brought from Lithuania to South Africa she's from spoons these are two spoons that have the initial
BK on them that was my great grandmother's initials breiner cats animals and these two spoons went from Lithuania to South Africa and now they're in Dallas and what a sister my daughter the other day is that these are my granddaughter avatar and my grandson Oren and my other granddaughter Ella's great-great-great grandmother's spill they're over a hundred years old amazing yeah very special and now you have something behind you that makes a lot of noise sure does this is called a vuvuzela and it was used during the World Cup it was introduced eventine not originally in South Africa but they became not all over the world
in the world cup and these the color are the new flag of South Africa when I left there this was not the flag of South Africa but since the ANC has been in power this is the colors of their flag you still follow soccer no but my husband does in fact he was lucky enough to go to the world cup in south africa with our son and they had the most wonderful father son bonding experience he did a great job today thank you thank you thanks for doing this thank you very much