Joyce Levine
Joyce Levine's family roots stretched across several countries before reaching South Africa. Her father was born in Lithuania and was considerably older than her mother, a reserved and polite man who worked in cattle and farming in a rural region of the Karoo. Her mother was born in Belgium during the First World War, and her parents took the children to England, where they were later orphaned. Unable to be supported in England, the children were sent to family in South Africa, settling in Cape Town. Educated in England, Joyce's mother was lively and involved in her children's lives, in contrast to her quieter father. Joyce grew up in Muizenberg with an older brother, an older sister, and a younger sister.
Joyce attended public school in Muizenberg and, after completing her final year, trained in shorthand and typing, going on to work as a secretary for many years. She later moved to Johannesburg, where she met her husband David, who was introduced to her by a cousin. Ten years her senior, David had a difficult early life, raised along with his siblings by his mother alone, and he worked as a sales representative in the wood and timber business. The couple enjoyed a long and happy marriage of more than fifty years and raised four children, dividing their time between Cape Town and Johannesburg.
The family kept a kosher home, observed Shabbat and the holidays, and belonged to an Orthodox synagogue. Joyce was active in Jewish communal life, volunteering with the Jewish women's benevolent society and working in the head office of the Jewish community in Cape Town, where she assisted a rabbi whose guidance became an important influence in her life. As conditions in South Africa changed and her children emigrated, Joyce and David eventually came to the United States, living for a time in Tulsa near their daughter before settling in Dallas. There she cared for David during his long illness at a care facility until his death. She later moved to Town Village, where she has found a lively and uplifting community, and she takes pride in the life and values she and David gave their children.
Full Transcript
okay good morning we're here at the JCC on the um 15 excuse me the 19th of February 2015 and I'm interviewing Joyce Levine for the purpose of uh the roots to boots project what I'd like to do Joyce is to start out by asking you to tell us what you know about your ancestors prior to South Africa what you might know about your mother's family or your father's family in in the countries that they came from prior to coming to South Africa my father was born in Lithuania and he was um I think he was older than he was quite a lot older than my
mother and he was a very I I sometimes think that he he didn't understand us We Were Young by young young kids growing up in South Africa educated in South Africa and when I think back over the years this gentleman he was so polite and such a nice person and I don't think he knew how to communicate with us kids whereas my mother having grown my mother was born in Belgium at the time of the first world war her parents took her and and the other children two brothers and two sisters to England uh with a head family after the um after the war the
first world war the family in in England couldn't support these orphans so they sent them to family in South Africa and we're in South Africa did they say um haven't thought about this in years I just can't think of it it must have been Cape Town Cape Town yes and that's where your mother grew up yeah and your father grew up in Lithuania it well I don't really know you know he wasn't as outgoing as my mother was he was a very um he was there he was like a distant parent not bad or he just I don't think he understands understood us skills you
know whereas my mother was into everything we were doing and first of all she was educated in England and you know she knew what was going on whereas we hardly knew him did he speak English yes yes he did but he was like um keep us safe but he never he was never interested in what we were doing and things like that whereas my mother was into everything that we were doing you know and she would in those days very few women had cars you know she would walk to the school and meet us and walk home with us and she she had been educated
in England how did they meet I don't know that you asked me I I would say to you I think that it was an arranged marriage I don't seem to have any recollection of of her saying you know the sort of Arrangements that we would have had you know we went out to a dance or something and met each other and met I I actually think now that you're asking me the question that probably it was an arrangement do you know how old they were when they married well my mom was 19 and my dad was 40 40. she was a elderly man and what type of work was he doing he he he how I'll use the word dealt he worked um was cattle and farming sort of things you know it was like a different world that we knew I never sort of I grew up in the city was he a cattle broker I think poorly and I I I'm not quite sure he knew all about him you know how to look after them and yes he probably was I never used never thought of it with the word broker you know the guilt in it did he own the cattle or was he
selling the cattle for other people you know I'm not sure now that you're asking me I haven't even thought about it in years um I would say I think that he owned it so you he had land the cattle um I have no recollection of of him actually owning the land he he we lived in a place in um in South Africa called muizenberg which was right at the bottom of Africa at the bottom of Africa is a bay yes and we lived on that bay on the beach and he would be in in a tiny little town in in South Africa in what they
call one of the areas the karoo uh do you know it at all no and and he would be dealing in these um there was cattle and sheep lots and all sort of thing you know I was a child in those days and somehow and he was such a reticent quiet man where my mother was into everything that we kids were doing you know first of all she was educated in England so she could speak English and everything and um so what was your childhood like I mean what kind of schools did you go to nothing I went to the school in muizenberg we lived
in muizenberg you know at the bottom of Africa there's a bay right I lived on we lived in muizenberg and um there was a school there and um what we called in South Africa the trick which is your final year in school there was never really any sort of sort of going to University or anything even my I had an older brother and an older sister and then me and then a younger sister incidentally ordered three of them passed away with cancer oh I'm so sorry so this was about this was a public school yes yes did you have any any opportunity for any religious
education um well my brother had a bonus and had all the training and we didn't I can't give you an answer why um what about the you as a as a as a girl as a girl well you know we my two sisters and I we grew up in a home where we had all the we celebrated all the holidays and it was part of our life and I'm a assuming that my mother and father were part of the the committees or whatever my mother certainly of the shoe and things like that um could you have did you have kosher mean I think so I
just assumed that it was I'm sure we did I'm sure we did now that you're asking you know I haven't thought about these things in years was there any any longing for Zionist logging not um I became more involved in that sort of thing when I was older you know maybe still in school we had all the um Hashem sort of these things in years we had things like well of course it was it there were there was a very big British influence in South Africa and they had boy Girl Guides and Boy Scouts and we were all my brother was a Boy Scout and
we were Girl Guides and we did all these things you know you had to sort of pass it and tests and things and then you would get a badge on the uniform that that you were these zionists boys no it wasn't designed but I was really aware of Zionism and things like that we were never um we were always aware first of all we we we celebrated Shabbat and we celebrated all the beyoncating we had all that in our home but um and we went specifically Zionist we knew all about it and we we went to all these meetings and whatever but I wouldn't say
that we were so good I'm looking for no you've read it though so once you finish High School what did you do first of all I had well there wasn't any question whether we could go to university or anything we finished the trick which was my final year at school and I did a course in shorthand and turkey and I as the years for many years I was as a secretary a few various places you know and I did that for a long time even after I was married one point after I was married I made I was introduced to my husband or her by
our cousin yes which turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to anybody tell me about your husband oh he's such a nice name what was his name David and how old were you when you met him I must have been about 21 22 and how he was 10 years older than me and we have a wonderful life together where where was he living at the time at that when after I had finished school and after a few years I went to live in in sorry Johannesburg was you know Cape Town was like a like a small town in comparison to Johannesburg and
it was like as if everything was more exactly in Johannesburg there was more going on in Johannesburg and things like that that's where I met my husband when I came to live here he was he was still alive he passed away really sadly three years ago so you met him some people introduced you the two of you in uh and it was a that's made in heaven no it was really really good it was really good sounds a bit childish the way I'm speaking no not at all it was just a great marriage I mean we had a 54 years 53 years in in excellent
Health both of us and I have four children you make my son yes I do I have a daughter who's older than Ian and then I have two sons younger than you so what type of business was your husband my husband wasn't in business on his own he works for a short while he was a sales representative and he worked for companies in the wood and Timber business and he was he was really into it because he knew it thoroughly he didn't have a university education or anything like that but he finished school and in those days if you're lucky and you found a good
job you took it because it was it was very necessary I didn't know him in those days he had quite a sad life his um his mother actually brought in and his sister and two other siblings on her own the father disappeared out of that and who knows what and um so he brought a lot of sunshine to his life pardon so you brought a lot of sunshine I hope so we had a very good good marriage and you have lovely children you lived all of that time until you came here and we lived part of the time in Cape Town and part of the
time in most of the time in Johannesburg um we were always members of gay tissue and keeping Deontay then and we we did all those things the children were brought up like that what was the show an orthodox show orthodox so did you have a kosher home there yes and my two sisters will and were you active in the synagogue life not not really not really I I can't give you an answer about you Jeanette we were members and we went I didn't have that kind of education I mean I could go to the service but I couldn't read it and things like that in
my day I I don't remember the girls having the kind of Education in Hebrew and everything that I have now were there other opportunities to be involved in Jewish communal life and so just tell me about the things that you did and I just I haven't thought about it in years I always worked with the not the Zionist the Jewish woman's benevolent society and talked about this in years what did what type of work did they do and but mostly I I was in in the office um yeah people had there were people who struggled with people who needed assistance they always have those kinds
of organizations I'm sure they have each year is it like a free loan Association I don't remember that there were certain certain I'm trying to think I don't think anything was free um I didn't have anything to do really with that sort of um part of which you know finance and things like that but I was always a part of being there and if people needed things I was always there working and more often than not I was on the Committees we also had the at one time I worked in the office the head office of the Jewish community in Cape Town and there I
mean Rabbi dushinsky he was their best in at the time when I was there conducted all his work not in Hebrew he would dictate his letters and things in in English but he would say to me whatever whatever whatever leave one leave in a space or leave a couple of lines and then go on and go on and then when the letter was completed and everything whatever was wherever there was a space he would write that in in Hebrew shouldn't it right and um he was like um he was somebody that he was the other best in and he was a person that was um
I think he played uh quite an influence in my life not because of the way he spoke and when when he he would be doing letters or we would be doing whatever was required and he would go into explanations and things like that for me I didn't really have a and a Hebrew education I mean my parents always capable of his head all the untamed and things like that in our home but um he he was great influence in my life because he was something I had such respect for him it sounds like you learned about uh Jewish law and the halaha from him wash
pose you know it was one part of it you know and all the um yeah well he that he would deal with the the uh controversies and the committee in the community with the divorces and that sort of thing and yes but he never sort of discussed those food individually right he would talk about situations but not about whatever's happening to various people no but the situations and the in the community in the types of issues he had to deal with and the the rulings and so forth I'm sure you learned a lot about the the uh Torah law behind the decisions that he made
experience yes that one would have been very interesting it was I mean it it sort of the time that I spent working in that office you know that it was the head office of the community in Cape Town and it played a really important part in my life did you go on to to study more more Judaism in term from from books after that and not terribly much unfortunately although I'm a big reader maybe not so much now but I was so busy I was so busy I had these four kids what types of books did you like to read history Jewish affairs novels as
everybody does find it really difficult to read the novel now it seems to go on forever with with nonsense things but um I was always reading and of course you know and what else can I say and there was a very busy you know I mean I had to have four children right and I never really love you know so tell me about the decision to move here to Dallas when did that happen and how did that happen my son Ian and my younger son Jeff can't just one day and said they were leaving South Africa I don't remember the reasons that they gave at
that time but my older son Ian had been in the army I don't know whether that was the specific reason but things were changing and they came to us one day and season you know I mean Ian was an adult Chief was quite a lot younger and they came here and slowly and then my other son he's younger than Ian his name is Joseph or Joss and he had left South Africa and he went to live in New York it's he wanted to go into acting my husband was absolutely horrified that he actually wanted to do something like that tomorrow sir I think my husband
so what's acting this isn't the way you you live you know he had a different idea about it he didn't think it was a a good thing and but Josh went to live in New York and he lived there for quite a long time and many years he now lives in Tulsa Oklahoma I don't think he ever got um I don't what's so weird I want to use I've not put it into words before um I don't think he got after what he was doing that he was satisfied with it even now when we talk and he tells me what he's he's at the moment
he's going through not a bad stage I think he's sort of um I went down to explain it to you I think he sort of another year no there at the moment which happens to people sometimes you know of course I see that my younger son Jeff is in business and tells me what he does it's all online I can't even tell you I can't even tell you what to put back my daughter's married she lives in Tulsa Oklahoma and Los Angeles also lives in Tulsa Oklahoma now so how how was it that you and your husband decided to come here well things have changed
a lot in South Africa it was a different sort of a good place and and our kids had lived Ian had left and just had left and what year did you come here you know continue must be a good between 15 and 20 years we've been here soon I even became an American citizen program with also and I would hope so did you did you live in a private home when you first came yes no I came with my husband did you live in was here and my younger son Jeff right they came together yeah and did you live in a private home when you
first came right you had your own house um how did you how did you feel about your uh integration into the community at that time into Dallas um it took a long time because I we came to Dallas I think we were in a Tulsa Oklahoma for a few years or you moved to Tulsa yes our daughter was there and she said to us you know she I don't remember the exact words you know what about coming to be here Tulsa and we went I don't remember the details quite honestly at that time my husband was not in great shape and although he was not
a young man at all he was 10 years older than me so he turned I don't even remember what actually caused it all of a sudden he he couldn't move he couldn't do anything for himself and he became incapacitated he was in The Tremont you know he was there from three there was three years close to four years so you had moved back yes and then at that point he was in Tremont and you were still in your private home a no at that time I was I was told was my daughter oh you're with your daughter in Tulsa thought about it yeah I just
but at some point you came back oh yes and then unfortunately your husband yes nobody didn't pass away immediately he was in the in the facility for about so in three years in this just wait on and on and on and he passed away it's just every year he was there for over three years couldn't do anything he had to be careful and so where are you currently living I lived at um Town Village how do you like it like that well I actually if I'm enjoying it I've already been there since I think since January I I lived at the Tremont oh I said
I lived at the Tremont which was like a residential yeah and my husband was in the facility next door right where they came for him and um at that time I wasn't driving anymore my children decided I was driving anymore excuse me when I say that no I understand I made that same decision for my mother oh you did yes much to my anger well it's it's in your best interest because my mother was I had to make that decision when my mother was no longer capable of driving safely and it was for her best interest so I understand I didn't feel that today they
hadn't I never had an accident in all my years of driving and I felt at that time that I could have still been driving but it's done and it's finished and I don't have any crunches or anything about it I would have liked to have gone on I never ever had an accident in all the years of driving but it's so it's done I don't have any problems so tell me what it's like living in town Village North would have only been there since January okay it's very pleasant people always say to me why did you leave the other place I lived here I wanted
to leave the other place because in the time I lived there and I watched my husband ever ever three years in this where he couldn't move he he couldn't get up on his own he had to they had like a sling which they put behind him and they lifted him up and he became incontinent and he went on like that for over three years and I lived in the facility next door so it was a sad a sad environment for you yes you needed some place that would get well that's how I feel people say why did you go I needed for myself because I
have to go on now right and and I can't I can't live in that I wanted to be away from me I don't blame you no no I'm not making excuses no no I think you made a very wise choice yeah because Town Village is a place that's very Lively on and I know a lot of people from the Year from the day and I've met a lot of people and I had to go away and I think for myself there was nothing wrong with the other place people say why did you go with the memories were harder it was a hard time and when
you watch somebody who's so active and so together and handling everything and seeing to everything and he was 10 years older than me tended to be somewhat overprotective of course so now you're in an environment that's got a lot going on and a lot of happiness and my back but it's very vivacious there and the Mayor Sam will take make sure that you you've met Mayor Sam no I haven't you haven't met mayor says yeah oh there's a gentleman there by the name of Sam his he considers himself the mayor I feel it I'm sure I should have said at some point lovely people living
there it's very nice yeah and it's it's the whole atmosphere is uplifting is yes yes that's a good way to have so to kind of wrap this up is there anything that I might have forgotten to ask you that you'd like to tell us about your history and then secondarily is there anything that you'd like to leave in terms of philosophic thoughts that you'd like to leave as a legacy to your family all right hello I mean they've watched us and I'm talking about Ian and his brothers and my daughter they know where they came from and the sort of life that we LED and
I don't know how they feel about it but I think we gave them a a very sort of I know young younger people um probably went through the same thing have all sorts of gripes in there growing up years but um we felt that we gave them the best that we could nobody wanted to go to university or anything nobody asked for it I'm sure if any of them had asked granted husband would have said to it you know once he wasn't able to um to look after his own Affairs things sort of um I wouldn't say they became difficult he handled everything very efficiently
you know our finances and whatever we did all the years you know really being capable person and handled everything he handled the finances most of the world all the time really really good at it as well I don't know I don't know I haven't thought about these things okay but you you've really told me a great deal about your history and about your family I think so oh yes I think so and I think it'll be a great gift to the community to have your story on tape and certainly and a great gift to your to your family as well and I want to thank
you so much for giving us the time this morning to spend thank you thank you so much and I hope you have a great day and thank you enjoy the rest of your time today are you going to write all this it's all on videotape and you're going to be getting a copy of the videotape once it has been edited and then a copy will go into the archives for our collection I wonder what my children are going to say children will be delighted if you think I think so thank you so much I appreciate it thank you