Leo Salit
Leo Salit was born on April 16, 1922, at Misericordia Hospital in Manhattan, New York. His family moved to the Bronx, where he grew up and attended school. He was accepted into Townsend Harris High School, a college preparatory school, and in 1938 entered the City College of New York to study electrical engineering, commuting by trolley from the Bronx to Manhattan. His family was of modest means, with his father supporting a household of five on a small income, and Leo balanced work and schooling for years to complete his degree.
In late 1941 Leo took a test and was hired as a junior engineering draftsman, reporting to the Brooklyn Navy Yard just after the attack on Pearl Harbor. There he made drawings for the installation of classified radar and sonar equipment aboard cruisers, battleships, minesweepers, and PT boats, often going out to ships by tugboat. Later he enlisted in the Navy's Eddy program, a training program in classified electronic equipment, and became an instructor teaching radar-jamming countermeasures and radar repeaters at Navy Pier in Chicago from 1945 into 1946. He married during these years and returned to school to finish his degree after his service.
Over the following decades Leo worked for a series of companies on increasingly advanced defense technology, including radar and radio testing, work at Grumman on aircraft avionics and the W2F early-warning airplane, sonar trainers and sonobuoy systems, star-tracking guidance for missiles and bombers, the Pershing missile program, maneuverable re-entry vehicles tested at Holloman Air Force Base, Doppler navigation systems, and the Mark 48 torpedo. He served as a director of test activities and program manager and earned commendations across many programs. He retired in 1988. After living in New Jersey and Colorado, he and his wife moved to Dallas in 2004 to be near their son. In Dallas he belonged to the Jewish War veterans and stayed active with his wife. He took great pride in his contributions during the Cold War era.
Full Transcript
okay I'm sitting here with Leo salad and it is December 2 1 in 2007 we're going to be discussing his military career which was extensive so mr. say--let first tell me where were you born and what year were you born in April 16 1922 in misericórdia hospital in Manhattan New York ciara true true Manhattan in New York where we moved to living in the Bronx for many many years and there went to school in the Bronx developed from there primarily went to the Townsend Harris high school which was a press prep school for college in the city of New York so basically I can get to college of course we did not have any money was also a three-year high school versus two years versus for year 1938 I got into the college
of city of New York in course of electrical engineering this was up in Manhattan like trolley cars going from South Bronx the transfers $0.05 the transfers to go to the South Bronx go to Manhattan that to go to school 1941 November things was kind of hot things were going Europe ships being sunk a lot of things that were happening November 1941 I took a test to be a junior engineering draftsmen with several hundred people I was fortunate I got the job I was accepted for it and I was to report to work of December 8th which is a Monday December 7th of Pearl Harbor that
things changed so I was working at the Brooklyn Navy Yard when the induction was at a very high rate I was eligible for induction into the service into the Armed Forces but I was not I was exempt primarily the course I was doing work related to military work my function in the Brooklyn Navy Yard was to make drawings for installation of highly classified Rowen radar and sonar equipment in ships or cargo ships my job was to go down today knowing the specifications are learning the specifications for this equipment I'm gonna go down to ships when they came in for retrofit and I would basically go
down and tend the ships take measurements make assurances that when the ship got to the point for a repair or work that everything was ready and available to be done so we prominent we went out sometimes a ship came into the yard sometimes I went out in a tugboat to the ship before it got in sometimes I was out the tugboat felt like a day or two working on a ship we worked on cruisers battleships my sweepers everything including PT boats at that time I remembered going out one time to a cruiser way to bring in some German prisoners and got a remember at that
time everything was rationed food was rationed gas was rationed and things were kind of tight back home there's a time that nobody complained everybody was very patriotic at that time I went at lunch with the German prisoners they ate better than we did they ticked off at that but it was interesting the way that was a sets aside aside point that's beside the point at any rate I worked in the Navy Yard and I was promoted several times my initial salary was fourteen hundred and forty dollars a year it was up to about the way up to eighteen hundred dollars a year at that time
my father was a whole family of five supported on $2,000 a year or even less than that so I had left day school I was going back to school at night that cumulated about three-quarters of the credits the intro graduation but anyway I was ready for abduction there was a time they could not hold me back like I had to apply to get it into the Armed Forces to be released to be inducted okay they said I actually got paper saying that refused it but anyway they couldn't have least use it at the time I was gonna be inducted they indicated sometime December I was
going to be going so I went on my own and tried to get into different services different programs to be an officer sv6 program d7 and I could not hear I can't hear in my right ear and at that time they couldn't pass they would accept me I found out about this any program the Yeti program was primarily a training program for military personnel on classified equipment radar sonar this was the equipment that was being updated on all the ships and airplanes and what-have-you at that time and they were like a couple of days separation and I was accepted into the Eddie program so basically
I was enlisted then they got induction papers the induction papers were set aside and I went to boot camp and from there I went through the different schools two levels of school on the eddie program one of the things that I remember is the you went to different schools with the pre radio radio and then I agreed at the middle grade it was down in Washington and at that time if you got a good grade you were supposed to be assigned to a base that you wanted I wanted to go to Washington because I wouldn't be close to home they sent me to Chicago I
had the top man in the class I got this big thing that says ninety seven thirty percent top man they sent me to Chicago and I was so damn mad I he was there at the time and I just bound to the committee commanding officer he wasn't too happy it is but anyway when I found that later I went through the schools at different grades of school and when I got through with a tenth tenth grade stations in Chicago and Senate Leisha cargo was wonderful as far as personal military work is concerned as far as the people are concerned they look great you could drive
anywhere fly go on trains buses dinners anything no child at any rate I finished the school and then you made a listing of way you wanted to go I said put that on all kinds of ships like put down PT boats or cruises anything submarines they kept me there I became an instructor I had the experience with the equipment and I knew all the equipment that I was pretty good at it and the one I had the educational background so it was then assigned the last part of my service that was instructed at Navy Pier 1945 in 1945 I went through there yeah graduate 45
January 45 to February 46 I taught the radar-jamming countermeasures and radar repeaters okay yeah then I get out and I said I had while I was going to the Navy Pier while I was going through school I got some night classes at the monoi Institute of Technology and I took some classes that got credit for him and I tried to use that credit to get my degree but they're so close to it they would not accept it I had to go back I got out of the service and went back to school for six months and certainly while I was in the Navy Yard I
got married this I think is 1923 1923 we got married I remember it very close because the day I got married how to work you could not get a day off in 1946 he went back to school for six months and got my degree and we're looking for jobs and I got a job after that for installing Jim Parsons okay this was a photograph equipment for landing New York corporation west side of Manhattan I rode around in Jeep and what I was doing was fixing equipments and still name Krypton designing what are your systems and then go around to different bars and restaurants and what-have-you
and check things out and they've got a tip every place you went to go to a party or drink so we have too close to a year of that I said stop that with something to be a drunk figure you're gonna be a drunk at that time so I left there and I got a job at the radio green Corporation of America that was video marina was down on the lower west west side can't remember the name of the street at any rate we what they did there was test radio equipment radio our equipment on ships and mostly commercial ships but what we did was
the radar test them install them and also they did some work on Iran equipment and that's the direction the good direction finding equipment and stayed there for a while back in 1951 they went and got a job at the bureau very annoying said Grumman aircraft now Bureau of Aeronautics is the government connection to the military branch of drama what we did there was the electrical engineer at that time I had to sign off on all the electrical drawings on the planes that have gone through I did not design the equip lanes they handed me drawings I checked the drawings to see if that's what was
I'm gonna basically make sure that they met the specifications and I had stand to stand my name on that thing so hundreds of drawings have my name I have heard a couple of ships at that time from there I went to this 1951 I went and took a job in this is back in a special devices Center in Port Washington New Jersey New York special devices Center is the place where they design the training equipment for the military this was all types of equipment so in our radar any kind of equipment what they were was all the procurement offices for that and I was assigned
to some specific work with some solar equipment what we did was he got expensive occasionally require from the military we wrote a specification you know with that specification of the contracts you follow through and sign the contractors are people and what we did there was so I was assigned work on building a sonar trainer now I don't know if you know anything about summer boys attracting some of these son of boys our devices when you're in an airplane or on a ship we throw these buoys into the ocean and what they are listening devices the directional listening devices so for example if I'm on an
airplane I dropped some boy somehow where I think the airplane the submarine is and by triangulating that information I think this to me this is where the sub is and we can drop depthless alright I helped develop and I also help them with the design of that I got a special commendation at that time for that okay so what we did also this was interesting was go out into the field and find out how this worked and that without implants we would how was that one a blimp they were time and that was that's a very interesting experience the blimp then we went on I
don't know if you know anything about loops blimp doesn't land by itself because court ropes that goes out and I got a catch of ropes and pull it down as that close enclose the blimp oh who is in is very bare-bones you know I have like an oven and a stove that's here on one side that toilet on the other and the front was a big plastic bubble you could sit in the bubble that right in front of the guys who were probably piloting it and you're like sitting in space there's a wide open it was fascinating it was beautiful anyway we had another fellow
myself we went out we're gonna go with the plinth go out with a Coast Guard plane to track the sub the idea was to get the truck there's sounds that the Sun makes so I can relate that to the sooner but trainer that we were making know whether were out there in the hurricane came in ok the plane made it back we could not you gotta go foot right up close when all the up code Coast the Virginia Beach in a blender there's no parachutes on the blimp okay the only one that has the parachute is the captain what was that mechanic chief mechanic on
there he's supposed to be able to get that close get down and get people together so they grab the ropes and pull of blimp oh that's the way the blimp splendid anyway this shortened us up about three o'clock in the morning four o'clock good morning we came back to base you supposed to been back like eight nine o'clock the night before we got down to base okay and we got off the plane by that time I was kind of green and they nest we're ready for the next flight and we were scheduled every day we later what - and the guy came to me and
says are you ready for briefing in the next point that was a civilian that time I thought to go somewhere but he went up and went up in planes they went up at the blimps and we checked out the trainers and there's some to miss was this made it was a great experience with working with the military all right from there these are basically all technical stuff over way into the military next job was an interesting one it was at the Coleman instrument corporation Coleman at that time I was building basic instruments plus they working on that Astro tracker now the basis for most of
my work the basis for most of my work that they're going on is a reference platform you got a picture something it's gonna something that's gonna show us should shoot a gun in space what's going to a missile that flew in space they that have a reference the reference is an inertial platform or some platform all right what this is is basically a combination of sensors that once you set up a reference if you're gonna fly is that removal in any direction no sense the amount of that movement in that direction and gives you tell you where you are basically you're tracking yourself it gives
you a data so that you can get measurements now what they were doing at that time they wanted to get stuff there related to missiles now this'll work into what I worked on later what they did there was wanted to work on tracking stars you there she a missile and as a missile close up the space at a certain phase and you've got based on being the knowledge of the stars and where you are based on this inertial system you could guide that missile okay and I said basis for a lot of the work they're talking about in a few minutes but oldsman at that
time worked on a system that was going on a bomber when a bomb a b-58 bone mass system and what happened there was I worked and part of the development that was not the original develop I got on after it was being developed I was part of a test team we tested this be the welcome roofs tracking stars we go back and we went to the Sperry was the one I was doing a basic equipment on the airplane to be 58 so we're working with Sperry on this so that's when I started working on stuff related to start acting there I went on to run
this is 1958 now and then Coleman from June 53 to November 58 we went to Grumman in Bethpage in December 58 there and worked with where was the head of the avionics team integrating a system now the plane the system we worked on is called eats away of w2f okay this airplane has a big dome on that's a loaded door and basically what this does is goes up at altitude and it has as the pilot the copilot has a Bane with radar equipment in three stations with men with Navy personnel and they can track airplanes they go up an altitude what they do is control
an airspace they can control where flights are gonna go for bombing months they can control where the planes are with related to coming back to an aircraft area and this was a complete system who is a radar that computers or inertial equipment TAC can intercept control to general communication and I was part of the initial team integrating that equipment I did not design the equipment the equipment was signed out two people are living the general electric download Victor and what have you but grandma was responsible for integrating all this stuff so this stuff was being put together by Maine under a team under me on
this I was the interface with some of the contractors I was the guy responsible for having it happen in the house I was the head of the flight testing now this is a completeness story in itself this is a new airplane the plane had not this first one built and the first plane built if one you got to realize it's five positions on this plane for people when the first plane goes up the test pilot goes up with first plane okay he's got all this equipment working but he's the only one in the plane he goes up to the first time he's up there for
20 minutes he gives us a report and how the equipment's I had a tremendous amount of respect for these test pilots they know everything that's on the plane whatever anyway the purpose of telling you this is that I went many times with a plane this plane of the plans up there for test flights will the equipment we go out in Bethpage now the family lived in nearby and plane to which was not far from there and we go up in an airplane and I'd be walking around the plane looking at the equipment the pilot the copilot usually when I went up in a test flight
there was nobody else in the back just myself for the positions and I take a tommy I see red fluid out my window here the hydraulic system goes okay you go back I remember one time went out and we're not be able to get parachutes laying on the deck I kick one of the one eye open went up they go Tommy we got a problem what happened they tell him that's no problem it's yours but it was it was an adventure it was tremendous acknowledged knowledge about all these different types of equipment they learned airplanes learned integration of equipment in this outfit I had a
tremendous amount of experience on that and also learning airplanes the airplane businesses it's a crazy one then from there we went to my dad listed on that phone till February 62 and 62 I decided we were living out in Long Island at that time then we moved out yeah 1562 they took a job in tier five at that time was just careful at Division okay at that time it was was not singer a changes name later to singer then I went the general precision but it was always a kir fought division now here was a company that was involved with major modernization integration of platforms
I remember what I talked to you about having a reference this inertial reference so that you have a reference vote from the machine go try to cite a star for example I gotta know where I am in order to be able to cite a star and then use that to control so this company was involved with developing the sensors this company was involved with hardening when I say hardening the designing equipment that would be able to withstand a nuclear environment so we're talking about developing equipment repairer developing materials and whatever and at that time going backwards okay the last job I worked on I'll jump
ahead I left that company in 1988 I retired at that time okay the reason I retired was a company was being split up into the different by the different places and they had an opportunity it was 67 at a time I figured it was time for me to get the last job I worked in was the mark 48 at cap black 48 was a torpedo that's used by the Navy the Navy is a standard heavyweight torpedo I don't know if you ever looked at so pictures of some of these submarines primarily it's got a bunch of torpedoes some places these guys asleep place three guys
to eat and the idea is the main weapon at that time the mark 48 was becoming extinct number one it had to be hardened number one had to be miniaturized number two it had to be increased in accuracy and what they did was redesign it and they modernized that the mark 48 was being modernized that we had the job of establishing again a reference in that Toledo in that same body because you had to be able to put him in the same the same space of the other ones that was the last job I worked on before that I worked on a Persian program that
a person underneath there is you see decision Pershing is a missile program there's a ballistic missile program that worked or for mobile mobile is trekkers they're mobile trucks if you will okay and they were stationed in Germany and they were set up as a ballistic defense against Russia now the Pershing was an old system give you an idea and went out there and to Germany and looked at some of the old equipment they still using radio to tease okay and then when we talk to some of the people in the at the stations and they asked them how was it working and he goes think
goes over the table it banks on the table and that's everything about the help did this stuff is extinct anyway make a long story short again what it was initially was and then a plane and nurse'll system what did evidential missile was you shoot the missile up he goes into a trajectory that you planned ahead of time and goes off target now that they've done is put a system in where you start off that way with the inertial system and then it terminates with a radar system so what you're ending up with something a lot more accurate with a lot more range and that was
a system I worked on on that and when I say you know when I work on these be designed it you build it you go through what you call a design review with the customer the customer is the Air Force it's the Navy it's Sam soul especially missile defense defense system all these people are involved with development of equipment for the military and you demonstrate what you've got then you build sample systems you test and these got to the point with delivery this was delivered to Martin Marietta and at that time this was pretty pretty big program at that time there was a lot of
money a lot of priority into this and it was kind of exciting before that we built on that several programs innumerable re-entry systems know the Minuteman folks some of these old missiles with great big systems that they're in silos okay they have what they call reentry systems reentry thanks in other words you have a missile that goes off and then in the nosecone you've got a bunch of missiles so you've got a bunch of planets of weapons in there and they go up to ten systems that have built up in there so you've got the miniaturized everything that you're doing it's also to the point
where they're gonna be exposed to the maximum the maximum hardening in other words as far as as far as exposure is concerned to nuclear environment and what-have-you so they have to be accurate and they have to be able to withstand the shock and have to be small so I was involved with the development of what they call the maneuverable re-entry vehicles we demonstration of these the testing of some of these without at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico and what we're doing is competing with other companies and building this stuff and I was chosen to be the director of test activities down in Harlan
there was all the test activities that a company had down here but the primary one was with the systems so this again is sort of the basis for all these latest development in missile systems okay so these are things that were that time I was they also go through with different reentry evasive maneuvers some of these not just go in they also go into another mode for example when the winner systems it has a mapping system the radar mapping system that ties in to lower this another thing that you get into is maneuvering in other words not only does it have to launch a melon
sub missile if you want to cool but they have to be able to maneuver which will go through with different generations so evade being knocked out while I was in Holland they suddenly had an emergency at one of the divisions in New York general precision laboratories where they made Doppler systems Doppler systems a navigation system that's used in airplanes and different equipment ships airplanes mostly and they needed a program manager by that time and I think is mystical but by the time they needed somebody that's going to get something done so I was a sign there and also worked on the GPL Doppler systems for
new airplanes in between all of these things I worked proposals we worked out proposals every time Sun a new program came in we got to get the proposals with him to see if we get them business that was a part of the business venture so all the time from 1962 to October 7 88 that was my experience with missile systems I feel and again I'm proud of what I did I got commendations from the Navy I've got commendations in almost every phase of the program like I said I went through some of my papers in here in five some of the things that I got
I didn't realize not here so I'm kind of proud of what I did and I think I've made a contribution to know it very differently definitely answers your questions oh yes definitely um now when you're developing all these missile systems and like it's beyond my thinking um it was primarily to defeat the Russians for the Cold War yeah the Soviets it's a cold war time mm-hmm and I just wondered how did you feel at that time about the Soviets did you I mean I know as far as I was concerned I was doing a job just Soviet at that time it was considered an enemy
okay and we had to develop that technology you got to keep Sputnik okay all of a sudden the developing the Russians got a spaceship they got something up there that we couldn't do you know primarily we had the metal methods of doing it and the equipment to do it except there was an incentive to do it business all of a sudden hey we gotta beat the Russians so all of a sudden we developed a complete program and we're way at an aggression where the Russians after a while but the picture at that time was always you gotta beat the Russians that was the thing you
gotta beat the Russians and unfortunately we're starting to get to that again and that's what the picture was at that time as far as personal personally is concerned I went from job to job primarily for advancement I can told you started off at 14:40 okay when I ended there I was making a fairly decent salary retired and eighty-eight retired primarily I could have worked longer as a matter of fact it didn't want me to go I'll attack some of the years before then what did to get out whatsoever better get out yeah so after you were tired what brought you and your wife to Dallas
well New York lived in New Jersey we lived in New Jersey for a 30 1962 to [Music] 1970 said my daughter live and worked we figured okay let's move out there to be close to her somebody home Carol was the sculptor she's developed some of the stuff that's just so here she we lived there and loved the mountains I love the area it's something did want to leave but unfortunately Carol's husband had had to leave his job and he had to find a job in Pittsburgh he found it you up in Pittsburgh so it had a move they didn't sell the house they kept the
place in Colorado because the town that she's in is a base for making all these sculptures that she's built that desire so she spent like half a half a year there so we decided to count and see 2004 2004 October my son is here in Texas so he said that he come down here too so he lives down hearing as his family here and he's a support base there primarily okay so we've been here for that three years October do you like Texas do you like it's interesting if I had my druthers I'd rather be in Colorado I've always been near the ocean near the
mountains something it's interesting people are different people are nice they look friendly and everything it's not a bad place to live we got into a gated community my son works so we can look at his office and see that building over here so he can check up on us but primarily he wanted was close by make it easier for them to have you gotten plugged into the Jewish community here I belong to New Year Jewish War veterans wanted American Legion also and not too close not too close to home here they're not yeah they go to the synagogue and one of the most there's a
center and community center uh-huh further south south from here we've been there a couple of times for some of the events there it's not convenient to us they don't drive that much so it's become a chore no I don't belong to that yeah we're both we get out we do our exercises an exercise bike we try to work as much as we can and the malls they keep moving and and do you have any grandchildren I have four grandchildren we have two minim were here yesterday mooching lunches from us I said no I thought about the water yes thank you the two boys how old
is he he's 27 and 25 my granddaughter is in California and Hollywood directing plays and what have you she is 36 37 and have a grandson and Denver doing computer work he's 35 already do they have any children do you have any great-grandchildren no not yet okay yeah yes yes it is very different my mother is not happy about it there you are she doesn't have any grandkids she really wants some oh there well thank you mr. Sayle it was good thank you for coming and I think your story is very important as far as your contribution to the efforts and though during the Cold War especially I and I know I've seen that plane recently I'm like a National Geographic special on the Ronald Reagan I believe you say my kids and the grandkids when they were young took him down for the ship that was down in the enterprise I think it was showing my aircraft my airplane yeah that's very cool yeah well I think so okay thank you thank you I appreciate the opportunity you