Lev Aronson
Lev Aronson was born on February 7, 1912, in Monchengladbach, Germany, while his mother was visiting a friend. His father, Zorah (known as Zola), was studying merchandising in Berlin to take over the family ladies wear business, and his mother was named Pese (Pauline). The family soon settled in Riga, Latvia, where his sister Gerda (Gedula) was born in 1914. During the First World War the family was evacuated deep into Russia, to Voronezh, where his father led a Jewish relief organization and where the young Aronson first experienced pogroms and the meaning of being a Jew under persecution. It was in Voronezh that he first encountered the cello, and after the war the family returned to Riga.
After high school Aronson went to Berlin to study law but was drawn instead to music, studying with Julius Klengel in Leipzig and later becoming a close friend and pupil of Gregor Piatigorsky. He concertized across Europe with a string quartet and as a soloist, briefly performing under the name Lev Arnov as the Nazis rose to power. He served as a principal cellist in Latvia. When the Germans occupied Riga, his instruments were taken and his family was sent to the ghetto, where his parents were killed; his sister perished in the camps. Aronson himself survived six concentration camps, including Stutthof, Buchenwald, and camps near Danzig, using his wits, languages, and a false claim of being a welder to stay alive. He was liberated in Pomerania.
After the war, with help from a former schoolmate serving as an American officer and from his friend Piatigorsky, Aronson made his way to the United States, arriving in New York in April 1948. Piatigorsky urged him to seek a principal position rather than an orchestra seat, and the only opening was in Dallas. Auditioning for conductor Antal Dorati, he was engaged and served as principal cellist of the Dallas Symphony for twenty years, later teaching at Baylor University in Waco and then at SMU, where he became a professor. He took pride in giving the world fine cellists, among them Lynn Harrell and Ralph Kirshbaum, and in his many students who found careers around the world. He married Harriet and reflected warmly on Dallas's cultural growth and the enduring value of teaching whole human beings, not just technique.
Full Transcript
It is February 3rd, 1985, a Sunday morning, and we're about to record Mr. Lev Aronson, a treasure of Dallas, a cultural treasure, a man who has brought much beauty through his music and through his teaching to our community. We're sitting in Mr. Aronson's home on Pinocchio, in the city of Dallas, and we're about to explore his history and background. Mr. Aronson, would you tell us where you were born? Yeah. You know, this is a very serious question. I had once a little boy that I took care of, and I used to tell him stories about my life and what I have done and where I was and good moments and bad moments of my life.
And when the teacher in the school asked him once, tell us something about Mr. Aronson, annoyed, annoyed very well. So he got stuck and he couldn't say a word. The teacher trying to help him said, he told him, where was he born? He hesitated for a second and he said, he was born all over the world. And actually that's almost like that. At the time when When I was born, there were not such elegant hospitals like today. Women gave birth to their children in homes, midwives, you see. Sometimes even helping themselves without midwives. And my father was then in Berlin studying taking over the business from his father who had a ladies wear store and they manufactured it themselves at home So he went when his grandfather died he went to Berlin to study the real trade you know, because he was a very serious man, he wanted to know the thing, absolutely scientifically what he's doing, you know.
Learn merchandising. So, at the same time, my mother had to give birth just as she graduated. So she went to a friend of hers, to Minchin Gladbach. And here my history started. With Minchin Gladbach in Germany. That means? We'll go right forward. Right forward, yes. And so there I was born in Minsk in Gladbach. Is this a German city? Yes, a German city. And when my mother returned back to Berlin, they left for Latvia, for Riga, Latvia. If she registered me in Minsh in Gladbach or not, I never knew. She just always used to say that I was born in Minsh in Gladbach. If they registered me in Riga, I don't know because I was never exposed to the idea that I needed a birth certificate.
So I never had a birth certificate, you know. But I'm not a bastard. You're very much here as a full presence. Yes. And so actually I was born in Minching Gladbach, you see, on the 7th of February, 1912. And I had one sister who was born later, two years later, 1914. Just at the time as the war started first of all the war started She was born in Riga She was born in Riga yes And when the German forces advanced, the Russian, which was, Riga was before Russia, as you know. It was before it was Latvia, it belonged to Russia. You know, to clarify that, we have to talk for half an hour about history, which I don't think is right now appropriate moment.
We're more interested in you. Yeah. And we had, they evacuated all the Jews from this part of the world because they were afraid that the Jewish language and the German language is almost so similar, you see, that the Jews will betray them and bring their spies, you see, German spies. So they evacuated all Jews from Latvia to Russia. And we settled down. Looks fine. We settled down in a city called Voronish. And my father became the head of the Jewish organization there. He helped organize all the Jewish people so that everybody should be able to start getting a place to live and food on the table and clothes to wear.
You know, it was not such a simple attack. Practical things of survival. Absolutely. Absolutely. And also teaching them the language because some of them didn't speak Russian very well because it was Latvia at that time was very Germanized you see So it was more popular the German language or the Yiddish language and the Russian language So anyway actually then for the first time in my life when I was just a little kid, I experienced a feeling what it means to be a Jew, which is, I think, important for everybody to know what a real feeling one has being a Jew who is not living under these marvelous circumstances as they live in this country, but persecuted.
He went through pogroms. And the father had to try to save his family as much as he could, hiding ourselves under all kinds of different circumstances. And finally catching my father, beating him up in our presence, taking him away from us. and six months later he returned. Civil war started in there. Cossacks came in. They made pogroms every day. This life hangs in my mind like a burning torch. And if anything made me be aware that I am a Jew are these years of my childhood that showed me what a burden we are carrying for a sin of others that happened once in Bethlehem. And we were there.
Then my father came back and he got sick and it was just a bad time for us to start getting back to life. It was already after civil war and the Bolsheviks came and communism started. Remember 1916 was the revolution. 16, 17, you see, this year. Yes, the revolution, and I remember this very well. I remember it as if it would have been yesterday. During the Civil War, the generals, the Russian generals, they were fighting the Communism. The White Russians. The White Russians. And the White Russians in the opposite of the Red Russians. The red flags and the Tsar flag had white in it, red, blue and white.
And they had some on their cars. They had signs, kill the Jews and save Russia. It was a very pleasant company there, you know. This town that you were forced to move to from Riga, was that in the interior of Russia or in the interior of Latvia? No, no, no, interior Russia. Interior Russia. Voronezh was the name of the city. What would be the... It is approximately northeast from Riga, deeper in the Russia. It's not far from Moscow, maybe about 200 miles or something like that. That face is in it for us. You see, and so we lived there, and my father sort of started working and making a little money, supporting a family, but we lived under terrible circumstances.
I remember that water was running from the walls. The electricity, because we had a little lamp that was sort of orange color, you know, and it was just hanging on a wire from the... It was just... Enough to distinguish light from dark. Yeah, I mean, it was just... Couldn't read well. Yeah. And finally in 1918 19 approximately my father decided to go back to Latvia So we went back We got the permission because all the immigrants that came to were settled in Voronezh or in other cities, you know, around, could go back to their homeland. You know, their own towns. The war was over. The war was over, sure.
So we came back to Riga But while I was living in Voronis, there were some, the same place where we lived a few blocks away, a family, a very rich family, they had three children. Borea, Vitya, and Anya, I remember the names of the children, and they all played violin, cello, and piano. And I was sitting there sometimes under the windows listening to it, you know, trying to try. And this Borea that played cello came to me and he showed me once a bow. And I had a funny feeling when I took the bow, I had a funny feeling, I said, I would like to have a...
And then it happened that a relative of, far relative from my mother's came to visit and he was a cellist. And he played and I liked it very much and he sort of showed me a little bit to do it. So that's how I started playing cello. And I went to school there and I spoke actually only Russian and at home Yiddish. But my entire environment was Russian. You were about six or seven at this time. Yes, right. And we came back to Figa, and life had to start again for my father, again, you know, you see, when he was sick, he said there were so many times on the horse and under the horse, you know.
So, and no help from the government whatsoever, it is the government only with your own hands, you see. and we lived and I went to school and my sister was born in Gerda her name was Gerda very talented very beautiful young girl Dear love of mine. And we started, we went to school, we grew up. Did you go to public school or to a Jewish school? I went, no, no, no, I went to a Russian school because I couldn't speak Latvian, you know, That was Latvia already then, you see. Couldn't speak Latvian and so a Russian school and so I got a Russian education. That's why I still can't speak Russian very well, you know.
I speak with my friends Russian and they even don't think I have an accent, you see. After so many years, because it's the first language. That's why I have such an accent, because all Russians have a terrible accent. On his next visit, I will apply for you to meet my brother-in-law, who was a Russian interpreter at the United Nations. Oh, really? Wonderful. Have a good time together. Yeah, sure. And after I graduated high school, I went to study, decided to study law. So I went to Berlin and I was accepted at the university there. And my father wanted me to be in Berlin, to study in Berlin because he had his Berlin experience, you know.
I studied law. the first semester I met a doctor who was a first cellist in the Doctors Orchestra in Berlin. He suggested I should play for him, he suggested I should study cell instead of law And I went to with him He lured me in in a very tricky way He said why don But you come with me to Leipzig one day I have a automobile and I will drive to Leipzig And there is this famous cello teacher that is a friend of mine and I will introduce you to him. Automobile was then, for me, much more important than all the laws and the music and cello and everything.
experienced to go in an automobile. My God, and I accepted that gladly because that's what was marvelous, to go in an automobile. And we went to Leipzig, introduced me to Julius Klengel was the name of this. This would be circa 1930. No, earlier than that. We went to Rosco, Oh, I'm not sure, younger than me. Yeah, I was 16 years old, you know. I was the youngest student. And I started taking lessons from Klengel. He was very kind to me. He didn't charge me anything. He said, you just come, because my father is a lawyer, I said. So that's for me very, a great honor to teach you to play cello, you know.
So then the doctor Levy couldn't go anymore to Leipzig. Do you have a question? Oh, I was, that was a fair distance from Berlin to Leipzig? Yeah, quite a distance, about maybe 150 miles or something. And that's already for Europe, a big long distance, you know. And so I used to take the train and go by train, you know. And I quit law after a year of study. And studied cello. Took it very serious. How did your parents feel about that? Very, very good. Very good. My father felt very good about it, my mother too. You see, it was a problem. I wanted to study law, and my main object was To seek out these leaders of this Russian movement that were against the Jewish people.
And to bring them to court as much as possible. But in order to do that, I wanted to be a little loyal. And there was Petlura that was killed by Bruce Bart in Paris on the street. And there were so many of these Russians still walking around, you know, in the world. They wanted to bring them in what's the whole colony in Paris, white Russians. Sure, sure. That's what my objection, object was, you see. So I... But then music took over, you know, and I still was... interested in that and I'm busy always talking to him in Paris especially some taxi driver in Russian and finding out his entire history where he was and what he did with it.
So I finally got older and didn't teach anymore. Then came back to Berlin and there was another man, Von Glenn, that came from Moscow. He was a professor at Moscow Conservatory. And after two years he died, or a year in the end. And Piatsygorsky came to teach instead of him. And Piatsygorsky and I became great friends, right away. He was very interested in a young man who was trying to become a lawyer, studied law, not only music alone, you know, looking for some other branches of education, development of mind, you know, in different directions. And I was then like a little sponge I tried to learn everything I could you see And This is at the conservatory in Berlin yes and there were marvelous years as Piacigorski has spent and but in 1930 he started already going to on tour He was a very first tour to America, you know.
So he was fewer times in Berlin and he was the principal cellist in the Berlin Philharmonic. And starting to concertize, he gave up the position of the principal cellist. And he was Furtwängler's favorite cellist of all times. So he, the greatest influence that anybody had in my life was he, Piedigorski. I have to throw in, I remember you and he attending, it might have been theater in the round, and I was there that night, and, you know, we were sitting facing one way, and you and he looking the other way, so I was as much watching the both of you as I was to play.
He was a magnificent, large man. Yes, yes. And you see, we got all kinds of interests, you know. When I was a kid, I had to go to theaters or to opera, you know, and to go to, even to circus and everything. You know, there was nothing, not one phase of art that I put my nose up to, you see. Because you have to be in this world very well-rounded in every respect. Then you are never lost among people, you know. You can always talk their interest, because not everybody is interested in music. You cannot talk to some man about music who even doesn't know what a violin is, you know.
So you are better off if you know something else besides music, you can at least talk to them about it. And I made many forms of... A man of all seasons. More or less you know I wouldn say talk about myself that highly but I have interest in today in many aspects of life I have a student who is a psychologist and he's an amateur cellist and I told him many times, Bob, why do you want to study cello? Just come over sometimes we will discuss this. He said, don't know, I have to come, because what I learned from you is not only cello. I use everything in my patience, you see.
Oh, that's exciting. What were your parents' names? My father's name was Zorah, and my mother's name was Pese. They were called Zola and Pauline. And my sister's name was Gedula in Hebrew, and Gerda, we called her at home, Gerda. Now then came the... slowly I concertized after graduating. At this time, are your parents and sister in Berlin? No. They're still in Riga. In Riga. They were never in Berlin. Okay. They were never in Berlin. It was just your father's initial visit there that made you feel less than... Yes, he studied, graduated, and came back. ...good grace for you to study, too. Sure, yeah. We can resume with your career at this point, Mr.
Ferent. Yes. After my graduation, after my graduation, I was very lucky. I was, while I was in school, I got in with a quartet, string quartet together and we concertized all over Germany. And again, things started getting very bad. Because the year was already 1931 1932 and the political situation in Europe started changing Young Germans were standing on the street in Berlin saying, for the one-way street to Palestine, you know, for the Jewish people. The Nazis started taking over and Hitler became Reichskanzler. I was then in Berlin, I was standing there and I saw him coming out on the balcony together with Hindenburg. And I knew that that's the end of it.
Now our quartet had to play. We still play together and we had to play at Goering's place. Now, we had a meeting and we decided that Lev Aronson is not a very good name for playing at Göring's place. There, where I had to change my name, and it caught on somehow, and my parents didn't object about it. And I became known as Lev Arnov. It had sort of a Russian ending, so nobody came to me, I knew Jewish. And the playing with the quartet also started diminishing, and we played less and less and less and less because of the political situation. And I finally came back home.
back home and to Riga. And while in Riga I had the opportunity to a friend of mine, a composer, was in Paris and he wrote to me I should come immediately to Paris, there are lots of opportunities in Paris. So I had a little money just for the train fare, you you know, and I went to Paris. And he introduced me to a manager who was interested in promoting young people, young artists, and I got from him the first tour, you know. So I started concertizing, it's a solo chalice, and played all over. But being a Latvian citizen at that time, I had to attend the military service for one year.
And it came to me right where I started on my own, you know. So through all kinds of manipulations, you know, and friends and possibilities and opportunities, I got every year a postponement. When I was studying it was a natural thing. But after I graduated it became complicated. So I created a concert in Rome. And there was a Latvian ambassador. Were you concertizing under the name of Arnoff at that point? Yes, Arnoff. And the Latvian ambassador's name was Spekka, Professor Spekka. They knew me very well from my career and my name was already known then, especially in Latvia they knew me very well. So they arranged another postponement for my military obligations to the country.
And I had a tremendous amount of concerts. Played all over, got a tour to Italy twice, you know. But this manager, whose name was Luzzato, for some reason never paid me for my concept, just a little bit of money, sort of, just to pay for a hotel to live. And the final analysis, he owed me a tremendous amount. Begin again with Luzzato, he knew the money, and you're going to go back to Riga and do to your military service. So, we'll take up there. When you finish the military service. My military service. We changed it. And the last one passport was a very good passport that you traveled And if I want to start my career again a passport was very important at that time Life in Europe and life in America, you know, are so opposite.
We proceed. You know, we can proceed. It's a big difference, of course, so a passport, ever little detail is of great importance, otherwise you cannot live, you can't exist. Here, for example, you never need a passport, only when you go abroad. There you need a passport every second, every policeman can stop you, you have your passport, show me your passport. And especially to travel abroad you need a passport. So when I finished my military service I was in very bad financial shape. As you imagine. Lutsato never sent me my money in spite of all my writings to him. And it was a very bad situation.
So I heard that there is a competition in Moscow. These were the first stages of the Tchaikovsky competition that is now developed from that, but it was in the first stages. So I decided I will go play for this competition. So again, you know, my mother had a girlfriend and the girlfriend's sister was in Leningrad and they told me to come over and they helped me to get a visa for this particular competition, you know. And I came there and I actually went to... Yeah, her husband, Trojanowski was introduced me to Stiedry, to Stiedry. Fritz Stiedry was the conductor of the Leningrad Philharmonic. And he was a very known man.
But they wanted me to, to, to play for Stiedry, to see how my chances are for this competition. So I applied for Stigri and Stigri said you go to Moscow and play the competition And I guarantee you you will win a good prize And there was another tall fellow with him, his assistant, introduced me to him. And his name of his assistant was Daniel Sternberg, who was later the dean at Baylor University. So, you see. and all right and I played and I won the first prize and I came back to Riga and it was already I came back like a little hero you know I didn't have a ticket they parade but but some managers guy got me already again to start playing, you know.
And I did very well, playing always tours, I had tours. But again, you see, it was just for a couple of years. Again, again, the Second World War started. We were reading already, you see, the geographical location start changing, especially for a concert artists. Here in this country the Germans occupied already, Czechoslovakia, Poland, you know, you cannot go anymore to Czechoslovakia, you cannot go to Poland. Austria. And Austria, and so it went on and on and on and on. So the map was short and shrinking. And the only concert I started playing were in Finland, Denmark, Sweden, you see, and Holland, just where the Germans were not occupied.
And it was all right. And in Norway especially had a big success. Sweden had a big success. Finland applied with Schneepau. For young artists, they did already very well. And in 1938, I met a very dear friend of mine, became a very dear friend of mine. And unfortunately it didn last very long She died She died in Paris And I went to Paris Very young woman with cancer She was gone in no time This was the love of your life at that time. Yes. What was her name? I'd rather not say it. Zhenya was her name. first name of Genia. And it was so long ago.
And we, in the meantime, I came in Paris, while I was in Paris, I saw Piazzygorski and he introduced me to his... He was married then to the Rothschild. Yes. And he introduced me to his sister-in-law and he wanted me to get married. In the meantime I had a contract with the Philharmonic because I was already the principal cellist there in the Philharmonic, in Riga. See? In Latvia. The city where I was the principal cellist was Libao, Lepaia. And I say that I'm coming back, you know. that the coming back was already impossible. The Germans occupied, then started the years of disaster. The Germans came to Riga.
We had... you can imagine what times we went through. Life changed completely for us. We were thrown out from our apartments, from my apartment, I had my own apartment, to the beautiful Bechpen piano, nice apartment, marvelous country, a good cello, a maticello I had. They took away from me my instruments and bows and this. And we went to Kieto, stay in Kieto. I'm writing a book by the way, of this kind, you know. It's together. Yes. And... I want the first edition inscribed copy. I place my order, you have at least one. If anybody will ever publish that, that's also your question. But some... maybe...
if the Jewish community would be interested in publishing a book like that. Or to find a publisher, you see, that's... I don't know from... That's difficult to do from Dallas to New York. But I don't care about publishing. I don't care about writing it. And there was the year my parents were killed in the action, ghetto. and my sister and I, then we were sent to the concentration camp, to the first concentration camp, Stutthof. That was in Latvia itself? No, this was back in Germany. Back on the ship, yeah, they took us on the ship to Danzig. Danzig then was a free port. Before, before, in dancing there was a concentration camp called Stutthof.
And my sister unfortunately remained there, died there in different places. And I remained by myself. All my relatives, everybody were killed. I remained by myself. But I always thought somebody used to tell this story some days to somebody, nothing, at least in a long run. So there were very serious days of concentration camps I was in six concentration camps all over Germany From one concentration camp to another. I was in the Duchenwald for a couple of days, back to Stuttow, back to Gottengau, back to Kurgraben. It was going on from Kaiserwald, everything. What's the purpose of the shifting? Shifting, the Russians came from here, they needed workers there, they needed...
Slave labor, you know. They should have used the trains for their army, you know, to shift the soldiers rather than the prisoners, Jews, you know. What type of work did they have you doing? Oh, I was a specialist for many things. For example, in Riga when I was in the concentration camp, after the ghetto, there was a concentration camp. I was in a factory working in a knitting department, you know. Then, from the concentration camp, I, from Stutthof, I got out from Stutthof because my sister was gone and brutally killed. And... Had she been married? No, she had a fiancé. She was also in ghetto.
And one day some people came in the concentration camp just to getting slaves to work, you know. And I was in Stutthof. And they came and they were calling all kinds of professions. And here I was standing together with several musicians, you know. And I said I am positive they won call for cellist So the next profession whatever they call is my profession I going I have to get out of here So I next profession was welders And I got out. They tried to hold me back, but I went. And they said, what kind of a welder are you? How long have you been a welder?
I said, 20 years. Twenty years? I said, oh, must be a good builder. Are you working with gas or electrodes? I said, both. I didn't even know that there are two things. I didn't know. Both. Both a builder, twenty years? Very good. And I was the chosen one. And I looked around and there is another friend of mine who is now in Boston, by the way. he was there too talking to them then he came over to he was also a chosen one and he came over and he says I heard you these lies, how can you lie like that you told him you were a welder 20 years and you were crazy or what he could kill you he said what did you say he says I couldn't say lie like that I told him 15 So we both got together and we both had to go a long way.
But you see, we were talking about knowledge and talking about the talk before about education. And I got there to Danzig. From Danzig we went to another camp, it was a Burgraven. And from Burgraven we were transported every day to work to the city of Danzig in the shipyard where Valesa is now working. In this shipyard I worked. Transick was a big ship building city. Yes, that's right. I built the German submarines. How do you think you lost the war, right? My building of the submarines, it couldn't win. Oxygen we always open the oxygen you know Let it out Let it out you know Anyway but there you see here is another phase of how to survive because when I was liberated the Russian commander asked me how did you survive You speak Russian, you speak German, and you're a Jew and you survived.
How is it possible? So I said, I was 20 times dead and 20 times alive, you see, survived. So which case do you want me to tell you? It is not the process of because of that and that and that and that. It is sort of accumulated. And this was one of those. Mid-conference? Yeah. but they also did I so I was appointed to to a leader seven people were appointed to a certain leader who will take care of the welding you know in shipyard and the former he looked to me a little Jewish you know a little fellow dark-haired and that it knows you know and I was next to him I said are you you Jewish?" Oh no, I said, I'm the Jewish.
I'm Italian. Sorry, Italiano. I said, Italiano, eh, che piacere, signore. And I start talking to the Italian. I said, are you Italian? I said, I'm not Italian, but I lived in Florence. In Florence, that's so wonderful. I'm from Venice. Oh, I said, I know Venice very well, you know, I live here. We became, right away, by the time we went, we came. In the midst. Yeah. By the time we came to the place where we were supposed to go, we were already close friends. And I told them, Mario, I said, I must confess to you. Like one Italian to another, I said, I don't know a goddamn thing about welding.
He says, I look at you and I knew it right away that you didn't know anything about welding. But you know the foreman there, he knew too that you don't know anything about welding. None of you know anything about welding. But he is trying to help and I'm trying to help you. So you, now I will show you how to weld. And come upstairs, and he took me upstairs and he showed me to take the push this button and ignite this. Machine and it will start and you move it back and forth till it gets red and then you close it up like that and you warm yourself because it's very cold outside.
So that's one of the phase how one can survive. We will resume. Yes. Okay, now. And from Stutthof we started evacuation, you know, from one place to another. evacuated until we were liberated in Pomerania in a city called Lauenburg. And some of my dear friends died just from the Russian bullets. The Russians came to actually to occupy the territory, the camps, you know, but the tanks traveled so fast we didn't know if it's Russians or not Russians. We run towards them. They thought we were attacking them. I got there, then they lost my voice. It was wintertime, you you know, from bleeding, so I was sick four months ago, you know, terribly.
So anyway, something important. So we got liberated and because I spoke German and I spoke Russian and I was Jewish, they They thought I am a spy and they sent me to a Russian camp. So I went to the Russian camp with some others and we thought it was an amateurish way to run a concentration camp. I had no idea about how to run a concentration camp. So there I organized the theater with another fellow, with the officer. And and one day just I talking everything in a nutshell you know because in order to be in details it would be a huge volume you know and I escaped from the Russian camp Was the Russian camp still in Pomerania or did they move you back to Russia?
No, the Russian camp, no, no, no, the Russian camp was in Silesia, in Torun, there where the Popolushko's trial is now, in Torun. There was the camp, the Russian camp, you see. You read, you follow up the trial, in Torun, there where the camp was. And we escaped and we ran to the railroad station. We got in an empty boxcar. We closed the boxcar and we just were sitting there and praying, hoping it goes in the right direction, you know. And it went. We went to Chilesia to Lignitz. To Lignitz. And my friend was a singer, was a chasm now in Boston. So we, he got a job right away to sing there, you know, but the cellist, they don't need.
So I've tried to do all kinds of things around the theater there. You know, they had Marshall Rogosovsky's headquarters was there, you know. What was the name of your friend who is now in Boston? Shelkan, Gregor Shelkan. Shelkan. And... And we... He is the cantor and mishkanth villa in Boston. Fine old synagogue. Yeah. You know the synagogue? We lived in Boston for a while. I know Ahabha Shalom better, which is in Brookline, but that another thing Anyway We need to find out how you got to the United States Yes and now we are going to And there you see I have to escape from this other thing too from Rogasovsky hospital You're still behind the Russian lines.
Yes, behind, behind. And then they decided to ship me back to Russia. They had to escape again on the railroad station. And I went to... I jumped in a train, in a moving train, while this soldier was making himself a mahorka, a cigarette. And I arrived in Breslau, without papers, I didn't have any papers, I was an escapee from a camp, Russians all around me. And I saw a train going to Lodge. So I somehow got hanging on a piece of steel there. Arrived in Lodge. And I remember there were some people from Riga used to live there in Lodge. And I tried to find...
A large Jewish population. Yes. It used to be. Textile mills. mills very large. Yes, but it was very few Jews then. None left then. Yeah, but I found these people, some miraculously found these people and they took me in and he was a captain in the Polish army and they found out for me I was by myself they found about the Jewish underground they got in touch with the Jewish underground and the Jewish underground sent me to Warsaw and I was in Warsaw again with the underground so when they found out about everything about me it had to be they didn let a leave me unturned you know They found out about me everything.
And they gave me a parole, you know, a password. And I told them about Shulkan, who is still there. And they got him out, brought him to Lodge. And he stayed in the same, with the same people. And then we both went on a train, smuggled around the Russian border, you know, you know, to Germany. Ah, this was a night to remember. And in Germany I got to the Anra camp, where Mr. Fishbein was the head of the camp, Dr. Fishbein's brother. Morris Fishbein. Yes, but his brother. And he is a friend of Mrs. Kahn. I sat next to him at her 75th birthday party.
They called me that night because I was out of town. I just arrived and they called me. Fishbein talked to me for an hour on the telephone. Very interesting man. You see how things go in this world. It's all interwoven. the interwoven world, see? And then I, one day, I decided I would go to America. It was not so simple. It was a very anti-Semitic council that interviewed me. He wanted me to show in the papers, my release papers from the concentration camp and my release papers from the German Wehrmacht. So I start giving up America. And I got invitations from everywhere then, from the Jewish agency, they wanted me to come to Palestine then, and from Australia, A student of mine found out that I am here.
And we... And I started sort of relaxing a little bit about this entire problem. And one day an American officer came into the displaced persons camp. They looked at me and I looked at him. And he drove out and he came back. He came over and said, Who are you? I said, and who are you? He looked at me there and I recognized him then who he is. He said, are you George? George? I said, ah, that's my schoolmate. We graduated school together. I told him my story. He got me out of the camp, gave me an apartment. He was the head of the PX in Berlin.
Access to everything. You see? So he introduced me to some people and he also had a friend there who interviewed me in the embassy there, you know. It was a completely different story, you know. So finally that's how I got to America. Well they told some story I remember that you ran into Petagorski. Was that it or...? No, no, no, no, no. When he interviewed me, he said, who do you know, who he was studying with, Petygorsky? He said, oh, Petygorsky? Do you know his wife? I said, sure. What is her name? I told him her name, Jacqueline. Ah, do you know her sister, Balenica?
I said, sure. Better be. If you know them, you can be a bad man. And they gave me the visa to America. Then I came to America. And another friend of mine, you know, came about a few weeks before me. Is this all to New York or Washington? New York New York New York Came me and Ah it was a big Happy reunion happy moment And I wanted to learn how to speak English. It was very important. So I started walking around with him on Broadway and reading the signs, you know. This is New York. He said, you don't... See, the American English language, there is TH.
He says, you have to learn how to pronounce it. It's very important two letters. He says, you take your tongue, you put it between your teeth like that, and then you take it. Then you say, this. This was my first lesson in English, you know. And then, you know, they refused to keep me on this United Service. This is about 1946. Eight. 48. It took a few years to the Unra camp and moving around with Guru. And that's it. They refused to wait till I had to join the union, you know, when they started working, playing out. You know, they refused to keep me on this United Service.
In 1946. Eight. This is just where we... Took a few years to the Unraa camp and moving around in Durham. Oh, sure. And that's it. They refused to wait until I went to the union, you know, I wanted to start working in New York. They didn't play cello for six, seven years. So I had to do something to start practicing. They couldn't understand that. And there was a man by the name of Oman who interviewed me in the Jewish society. I spoke for a banquet and they raised about then but to help me out a little bit they didn do anything This is right about the time Israel is getting its independence Yes, it is.
I arrived in New York on the 10th of April, and the independence of Israel was in May. See? Yes. So, um... Now we get to Dallas. Yes, and then when he started refusing me, so I said I would like to see, find for me, Petygorski. So he didn't want to do that, and finally they found Petygorski, and Petygorski came to New York, And Piazzygorski told me to come and to play for him, and I played for him, and he started calling people, you know, saying that a former student of his arrived and a friend of his arrived and should listen to me play. He said you should get a position not in the orchestra, just to play in the orchestra.
You should get a position as a principal cellist. From there you can go places and you can develop. In the orchestra you sit there in the section and then you're stuck there for 20 years. You can play. You can get out and concentrate. And play solos constantly, you know, becoming a person, you see, not... And the only opening for a principal cellist was in Dallas. So I had to play audition. I played for Dorati. And he engaged me, the principal cellist, to Dallas. I came... And there was, I played and he said that he heard another cellist also in Paris, very good cellist. But he cannot come because complications with visas and things.
So whenever he will come we will sit together on the first stand He said ah forget about it You are my first chalice After six months later he came to me and said you know this cellist is coming to America I said, I will never go back on my word. What I said, I am going to do. So this cellist came. He knew about me, and I knew right away about him. His name was Janusz Stalker. So we sat together on the same stand. His picture is in your then. And we are still great friends, you see. Stalker in German is a strong one. Strong one, you know.
And so after a year, Stalker left to get a job in the Metropolitan Opera. was also an opening here. And I sort of liked to be in Dallas. I wanted to have a address again. This was my main thing. I wanted to belong to somewhere, you know, because I gave up my ideas of concertizing because in order to concertize you cannot skip six, seven years of playing and then suddenly become a concert chalice. It's quite complicated, you know. But I knew the entire repertoire by memory, because so many times it went through my mind, you know, when I was in the camps. And... You found a home.
I found it, yes, I found a home. Everything went well for me, and I got talented students. I got Lynn Harrell who came to study with me. I was teaching at SMU then. And I was 20 years a principal cellist of the Dallas Symphony. And in 20 years I think I built up a reputation as a musician, as an artist, and people still still stuck me somewhere in a bank or on the street and said, Hey, Mr. Ellison, how are you? These are the pleasant moments of my so-called retirement. Would you like to tell of some of your pupils, such as Harrop and Kirshba? Anything about them?
Yes, you know, Lynn Harrell was the son of Mac Harrell, the famous baritone, you know. And he came to study with me. And after a couple of lessons I told Mac, I said, Mac, it's a tremendously talented boy. I said, thank you very much for just letting him play a little bit, shall I? We get acquainted with music. I said it will be more than that. You're a better recorder than me, I'll tell you that. I just got displaced. I want to... place in. And... something about them? Yes. Place things again. To study with me. And after a couple of lessons I told Mac, I said, Mac, he's a tremendously talented boy.
I said, thank you very much, let him play a little bit, get acquainted with music. I said, it will be more than that. And... Oh, oh. So you're going to tell, you recognized immediately that Lynn Harrell had talent of his own. Oh, yes. I, you know, I had quite a good experience about these kind of things from my previous teaching experiences. And I recognized right away what a great talent it is. and he made phenomenal progress and Mac I remember was surprised to see what the boy can do on the cello it was just remarkable the way he started playing right after a year he played already very well and we found a very good rapport together we became good friends together He learned something from me That very important At that time, also, another young cellist came from Tyler, Texas, by the name of Ralph Kirschbaum.
And he was also tremendously talented. And we had to work quite hard, and he also made a phenomenal progress. He's an exceptionally talented musician. He's a very sensitive player. I consider him one of the finest cellists. so you see I gave the world two excellent cellists besides the army of others who are now principal cellists either in Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra in Houston one in Vienna one in Germany three I gave bread and butter to many many people that they have now families and they are enjoying life and wherever they go They mentioned the name of Dallas and me, and so I think I made a little contribution to the city, to the Jewish community, and to everybody.
I can't but tremendously agree with that, and of course that's one of the reasons I was so anxious to meet with you and to talk on the subject. And before we close, I would like to ask you one more question, And that would be how you've seen the cultural life in Dallas improve, if it has, in your opinion, since the time you came, and possibly a word of how Jewish people have contributed to it. Oh, I think the difference between the time I arrived in Dallas and today is just absolutely enormous. There is nothing to compare it, like two different cities, see. I remember the first time I went to the Majestic Theater I got to see a movie and there were so many June bugs on the floor you know or something It was on the ground that it was just impossible to get into the movie theater Okay.
We'll pick up from those bugs. Yes. And today, you see, it is unrecognizable. The city is unrecognizable, you know. I drive downtown and I don't know where I'm going. It's like in a strange city. I had to take Lynn Harrell, who was here for a concert, and I got lost. I had to ask some people, where is Fair Park? You know, it was just impossible. It was impossible. But you see how everything changes. Everything changes. didn't we change as people in our appearances in our thinking in our looks everything changes thank God it changes if we wouldn't have changed what would have happened to the world would have been the same dark ages as we lived before when I started telling you the story about Russia there is hope that in the next couple of years in good health together we'll attend the opening of the new symphony hall.
That's right. Marking another beginning of the whole growth. Yes, and there are now so many people in Dallas, you know, who try to do something about it. You know, from the first day when I arrived and I saw this public school system, you know, and the departments, and I talked to some teachers. I was surprised that some of the people were teaching you because their intellectual standards were very low. And what kind of schools are there? They are just taking the children advantage of the children. Teaching them nonsense, sheer nonsense. No wonder some of the people that grew up at that time are just, we don't see anybody that became somebody you know besides my two students who made a world career because I approached them from the first day that I met them I saw in them human beings talents that have to be taught They have to be taught what life is, how to behave, what to read, what paintings to see, what books to read, what music to listen to.
it's not just the technique it is the whole feeling that you have to bring to it and experience sure the entire circle around you you know it is like a tree you look at a tree there are so many branches are you talking only about the branches or are you only talking about the tree the tree it sits in the ground and feeds the branches and blossoms. And these branches are, one branch is music, the other branch is literature, the other branch is art, the other branch is business and commerce and architecture. Everything can be approached from the standpoint of artistry. Whatever the behavior of a human being is artistic behavior.
We shouldn't be as scared from that. When I came to Dallas, people told me about the long hair business. Oh, the long hair with long hair music. We cannot understand that. We don't understand that. But you go today to a symphony, there are thousands of people listening to a concert. If they understand or not, but they are exposing themselves to it. Young people are mobilizing themselves. in order to organize like 500 things, you know. They are organizing, they want to, young people want to go somewhere, they want to develop, they want to learn something, you know. And this one thing, the moment you want, you can achieve everything.
The main thing is just that you have to get together with the rights people and learn from the rights people. And the people who are what we call the rights people have to be willing to give and to exchange. So it is actually a two-way street. Knowledge is a two-way street. I want to teach. After I was sick and got a heart attack, I went to Baylor University. Because my friend Daniel Sturbert, that I met in Leningrad so many years ago, is Stidri, he was the dean, he wanted me to come to teach there. So I taught that. Because the doctor suggested I should change my job and take it easy a little bit.
Go at your own pace. Yes, so I did. And it was a very good thing. And I was treated there very, very nicely by everybody, presidents and everybody. Very nice times I had. Not everybody is, you cannot talk about some individuals because you have to take a big organization like that in scope in general. And then when I came back, and I retired already. I was 65. And I was here a year or so in Dallas, and suddenly I had a big class, about 15 students. So I said then to my wife, Harriet, you know, I'm Harriet and Harriet, they don't let me retire. You seem wonderfully good for each other when I see you separately.
and together. Thank you. And, you know, finally we had to attend to the students and get to not only teach them how to play cello, but generally approach to everything in this world People have to be taught They are green They don know anything And one day I got a call from SMU Now we reached an agreement and I started teaching at SMU It was three years ago. Now in the fourth year I'm already a professor at SMU. marvelous. And they have a big class there, marvelous cellist, marvelous students. They come to study with me from all over. And I share my experience and share my knowledge with them.
Fulman has moved there now too, his conservatologist. Sure, sure, yes. He did a marvelous job, by the way, marvelous job. Here is also a newcomer to Dallas and did so many good things for the city of Dallas. This conservatory is one of the finest things that were created in the past decade. Well, this new experience at SMU, it's enriching for the community and it keeps you young at the same time. That's a marvelous company. I don't have to be kept young. You are. I am. That's one of your beauties. I am, you know. I have a dear 86-year-old friend who I have interviewed as you, and we see each other, talk to each other every week.
She was a refugee from Germany and just a marvelous young spirit. She makes me feel young, and you do too. So thank you ever so much, Lev Aronson, and as always, you're a delight. Thank you.