Libbie Schepps
Libbie Schepps came from a deeply religious immigrant family that settled in Dallas, living first in the North Dallas Jewish neighborhood on streets such as Highland, Alamo, and Caroline. She was born in 1904, and her sisters Birdie (Schackman) and Mary were among her siblings. Her father was closely involved in Jewish communal life, serving as treasurer of the congregation and neglecting his own business to collect funds for the shul and cemetery. The family later moved to South Dallas, part of a broader migration to the area then known as the Cedars.
Married in 1926, Libbie lived on Browder and Gould streets in South Dallas before moving to Sealy, Texas, in 1928, then to Houston in 1933, and back to Dallas in 1936. In 1937 the family bought a home in Oak Cliff, where her two sons attended schools as the only Jewish children among thousands of pupils. Over the following decades she moved many times, living on Meadows Lane, Yolanda Lane, and Royal Lane. Her husband was part of the Schepps family, who came to Dallas around 1913 from Europe and opened a dairy on Bonnie View Road.
Libbie and Birdie recalled the founding of the Orthodox congregation Agudas Achim, whose early leaders included their father, Ike Friedman, Jake Donsky, Isaac Sewell, Julius Heisegger, Eli Mosesman, and others. The sisterhood met in a feed store and a cottage on Wendelkin at Forest Avenue before the shul was built, and Libbie served as sisterhood president for ten years, organizing box lunches, picnics, and enormous cooking efforts. She described strict Orthodox observance, koshering chickens by hand, the men and women separated by a curtain, walking to shul on the High Holidays, and the loving, egalitarian spirit of the community. She recalled Rabbi Abramowitz, the bar mitzvahs of her sons, and the Herzl Heichel building named for a young boy who died.
Full Transcript
Now this is Mrs. Shackman, this is Brady Shackman, and she's going to tell us about the founding and background of Uddesongfam. Can you tell us about some of the people that founded Uddesongfam, who they were? I know my daddy was one, Ike Friedman, Jake Donski, um, proxy daddy. Jake Donski. Yeah, Jake Donski. and Isaac Sewell and J.M. Heisegger, Julius Heisegger. Now those are the ones I know I can remember. Did I say, I said Jake Gonski. Yes. and they bought a cottage on the corner of Wendelkin and Forest Avenue and when we it was just about the time of the high holidays and we met we had our services at the feed store no that was a meeting for the auxilary oh yeah the Oh, that's a good one.
Excuse me. That's our Mrs. Scherz is with her, and you all go ahead and talk when you want to recall something. Anyway, we got the Arbitur ring over on Forrest Avenue, and they would not allow us to put mezuzahs on the door at that time, but they put them up. They wouldn't go. Rabbi Abramowitz wouldn't go in there without a mezuzah, you know. That's where we held our services. And our meetings were held in this house over on Wendelkin in Forrest. And now you want to tell them we're not organized. So we had to have an auxiliary to take care of things there. About what year was this thing?
Do you remember? Good to know. Now that's what I was first. In 1918. Oh, I married in 1918. It was 1919. You married in 1918. All right. You were 19 years old when you became president of the Sisterhood. Well, the Sisterhood was first organized in North Dallas on Caroline Street at Mrs. Ben Ablin's. And I walked in I was married one month and they said here comes our president They all pointed at me And I was made president And we met after we moved from North Dallas Carolina and Highland and Alamo Street we went to a feed store on Holm Street. And I conducted my meetings sitting on a bag of...
Beans, there's a... Not beads. Feed. Feed, bag of feed. I remember that. I was there. We had 19 women at that first meeting. And then we moved from the feed store to the Goodes-Ockham house. And every month before, whenever we had anything coming up, we would go early and clean it up. We would wipe the chairs, wash the dishes, clean the floor, the ladies that would come in. It wasn't too easy at that time, not like you come in today and you find a beautiful polished floors and everything. So then when they built the shill, I was present 10 years. How about 16 meters? No, 10.
Sophie was 6. Sophie was 6. Oh, 6. That's it. I was present for 10 years, and we did our own cooking and everything. We worked very hard to bring in a dollar. And we would have box lunches, which brought in more monies than anything that we had. And, of course, we would bring a box, which we thought was wonderful, and we would get from a dollar on up for the box lunches. And everybody, you can imagine how busy everybody got when they had their box lunches and sat down and had a feed with their family. and Rabbi Bromwich was a rabbi all this time. He came here in 1925.
He did? Yes ma'am. I married in 1926 and he was here one year when we married and he came in 1925. Well who did we have before Rabbi Bromwich? We didn't have a rabbi. And he was 25 years old when he came here. And what I liked so much in Rabbi Brown, we said he took such interest in making Jewish children out of our children. Now I know my own son, Harold, was very, very from. He was until he was 27 he ate no tracing you know And they were all all the boys and girls were crazy about Rabbi Romans Yeah, they were there. And then when we built our shoe, we had this, and this is it.
This is the laying of the cornerstone. Well, Bertie, tell her about the rooster. Now, I can't get that in my head. What? Something about a rooster. Oh. Tell her. She's going to tell you about this. All right. It's really something. Manny Hoppenstein was instrumental in buying the Goodest Achim Cemetery for the group. And of course, when you dedicate a cemetery, my papa carried out a rooster. And they buried, I think it was a live rooster underground. him. My Papa got so sick when he came home we almost had to give him everything to bring him to on account of Papa was the one that dug the grave and put the rooster, a live rooster in there.
So you can imagine what went on. And but the cornerstone, when they laid the cornerstone for the shul and I'm presenting a picture and the article that was in the paper when it was laid and we were very very happy we were a happy group it's not like today when one seems to think they're better than the next fella we were all alike yeah they know more whether they know it or not they tell you they know more but I I I will say that we were one of the happiest groups that I believe we had no friction among none no none at all none at all and we couldn't do enough my papa was treasure of the show for years and years papa was treasure and I'll tell you another thing that my papa did my papa neglected his business to go around and collect for the goodest Achen.
He really did. His business went down to rock bottom. And we were all interested. And when a family is interested, it's more, you can do so much more than one or two in the house is interested and the other two or three are not But we were all every one of us were very interested And when did Bobby sing in the choir? Not there, he sang in North Dallas. And Mary was the secretary, she was the bookkeeper. Mary was the men's bookkeeper. Yes, she was the men. We had our own secretary. We had ours, but she was for the congregation. She was bookkeeper. Uh-huh. How did they decide to form the congregation?
Sherith Isra was already here and was it orthodox at the time? This was strictly orthodox. No, but Sherith was already here. Oh, yes. How did they decide to form a good asophant? Because we came from North Dallas, and nobody wanted to go over there. It seemed like they wanted to have their own shoes. Orthodox. See, we were more orthodox. So that's why, that's what happened. And then, of course, they went on Grand Avenue. Don't forget that. That was at Teferth, Israel. Now, that was later, yes. But a lot of our members went over to the other shill that came from North Dallas. The men and the women did not sit together.
No. We did not sit together. Remember when they sat on the stairs? Because it was strict orthodox. shawls over their heads, the women, we sat on the stairs, on the stair steps we sat, and the men sat in the seat, you know, they had prestige. Yeah, we had a curtain in between on Highland Street, and every time we'd hear a fall in the men's group, it was my brother Ruben fainted. Don't you remember? He fainted every young kipper. Whenever we heard something hit the floor, it was my... Oh, they had the curtain. A dirty little. So we couldn't, so the women couldn't see the man.
Yeah, they were, and if you want to see, if you would want to see something, they would, some of the women would pick up the end of the curtain and look through there to see what their husbands were doing and what was going on. I thought this was my first Sunday school teacher. He was lovely. He was just a prince, really. He was and he is. See, Libby's younger, so she went to the Sunday school. I didn't. I was already... I went to Cader. I went to Cader in North Dallas. You remember? My poor papa gave her all the money. Oh sure. Now I went to Fader.
But Burry and Mary didn't because I was young. Did they start at Fader as soon as they started the show? No, no. We had the North Dallas on Highland Street. Fader. Now was that part of Preferoth Israel? That was the old. That's the old Preferoth Israel. That's right. Okay. And when y'all started you broke away from the... That's right. We went up there. To the United Islands. I see. Okay. And then they took Israel, the official. And they moved off of Highland Street. So the building is still there on Highland Street, I guess the color. What was the very different? Grand and Edgewood. It was on Highland Street.
No, I mean the other ones that they built before they moved. Where they had it. But I know where they moved from, where? Grand and Atlanta. Not Atlanta. Edgewood. Grand and Inchwood is where it was. And we were on Grand in the... in the Colonial... What was it, Grand? I don't mean Grand Forest Avenue. We were on Forest Avenue and Tepheret Israel was on Grand Avenue. That's it. That's what it was. They called it the Grand Avenue Shul. That's the name of it. But the... We men truly, I can say so much about this as good as I can, because on the way that people associated with one another, and as I said before, nobody was better than the next fella.
Nobody was richer than the next man. If you could give, you gave. If you couldn't, you didn't. And it was entirely a different story than it is today. How many families did it start off with? Do you remember? I don't remember just exactly how many. The building couldn't have seated 600 people in the way they had it in here. Let's see, what else was it? We have a lot of people here that are still with us. You'll see the names here. The Mosesmans. Eli Mosesman was one of the founders. Oh yes, I forgot. Yes Did most of these people live in South Dallas when they founded Yes they did Was it up towards Accord or was it towards South Boulevard and Forest Or was it all over there?
South Boulevard and Forest. Well, the temple was on South Boulevard. Park Row. We were close to Park Row. We were close to Cedar Springs. That's where it was, mostly to Cedar Springs. Well, that was North Dallas. That was North. I'm talking about when it was first started. Yeah, when it was first started. Yeah, that's right. They were on an archeologist, and some of them started moving to South. Yes. Is that why they did that? At that time, they called it the Cedars. If you moved to the Cedars, you were educated. Reuben Robinson was one of the first family that moved. Yeah. And Sophie Goodman, now she lived on Maple Avenue.
She never did live in North Valley. No. So she moved to South Boulevard from Maple Avenue. And she was one of the few also who moved to South Valley. Yeah. But we all moved out there. I think there were just very few of them. I'll tell you, there's one woman that I must mention, and she took an interest in everything we asked her to do, and that was Mrs. Rose Miller. She stuck with me through the Shills and every organization. And, of course, she's not here anymore. Let it close out. Now she's got the humor. You want me to tell her to cut it off?
Now she's just turning it on. I'm getting away. I didn't want to show you. Mm-mm. She didn't. Okay. How about Sarah Soltis' papa, Mr. Wachowski? They didn't move for a long time. Sure. Was he there too? Sure. And the other, Ben Tobolowsky? Is he wild? No, is he wild went to the North Dallas show. And I was trying to think of all of them. Oh, well, I'll tell you, Myers-Piper also went to the Grand Avenue show. Yeah. A lot of them went to the Grand Avenue show. Okay. Well, now what else do you want me to talk about? Such a strict strict orthodox show that really they The majority of them were of foreign born They are mostly.
Just the younger generation I can say were the ones that were born here. Where were they born? You know, where were they from? Were they from Russia? Sure, everything. Was there any relationship at all between the Temple Jewish community and the Gudesachim? Not at all. I don't think. I don't think so. Such a contract. No, it wasn't. Later, I mean, when the Teferth Israel came on Grand Avenue, then we would, they'd go back and forth, but I don't think there was any relationship between the temple and the good of sassim because we were so orthodox. You find, oh yes. We were rare very religiously. But the good didn't make us at all either?
No, not the temple at all. Now you take today, it was drummed in our head by Rabbi Bromwich. Now you can find many of them today that are still keeping kosher homes. I'm one of them. And you attributed it to him. I do. And to our parents. Yeah, our parents, of course. But Rabbi Abramowitz, now I know that there were at least a dozen boys that were bar mitzvahy at the Gurdsachim that were very, very frum. They would go to shul Friday night, Saturday morning. Of course, they drifted away from that. and we were all very religious we children from these homes because our mothers were religious and we were reared in very religious homes well we never tore a piece of paper on shops she never rolled on shop do you know never picked up a pencil on shop do you know that harold didn't answer a door because the bell was electric on Friday night or Saturday.
He didn't turn on a light. He wouldn't answer a telephone. It was unusual for something. He was... He went to the extremes. Yeah, he went to the extreme where we would, ooh, I'll tell you sometimes, if I would solve, you know, at that time we had to pick our chickens and and make our own meats and chickens kosher When I would salt a chicken he would come in there and if I didn't pick the wing up and salt underneath the wing, he had something to say about it. Of course, I ran him out right quick, but that's what went on with Harold. But I think he was the most strict.
He was an old clip, and I'd take the car, and I'd go to the shepherd. in South Dallas, North Dallas, Mr. Bernstein, Sarah Kaplan's father. Sarah Kaplan's father. He used to kill my chickens, and I'd come home, and I would pick them, pick them and open them and smiley them. And wash clothes in a tub in the backyard, and I would... Oh, I must tell you this. I don't want to leave this out. We had a committee of women that would come in my mama's backyard. Mama happened to have, what did you call that thing where the water went underground? She had a wash house.
I know, but she had that thing that the water went down. Yeah, that was in the wash house. No, then she had the drain. Between our yards. It was a drain, that's what it was. She had a drain. We would have as many as 75, between 75 and 85 chickens to pick and make husher and everything in my mother's backyard. For the dinners. For the dinners. I would like to tell them that everybody squirts your head. And they'd pick them out in the back. Oh, I'll never forget that as long as I live. they would she had these big barrels and all the women would come and we'd pick not we mr reback would come and throw those chickens in the barrel and the barrel with chickens they give work and our hair yeah and the barrel and the chickens would be covered with blood and we would have to pick them dry oh it was and uh then all night we would i'm sure most of the women would go home and scratch your head because we...
And then they would singe them and make big fires with papers. Oh, all the papers. And she made big fires. They made big fires. Today the young women and men think things are hard, but oh my goodness. We were really primitive, so to speak, because we didn't even have the cleanser. The backyard takes the dirt and cleans the pots with dirt. So we were really primitive, so to speak. And then during Pesach, when we had a kosher I silver, we would dig this big hole in the backyard and dig a brick and get it all. I used to do that. Every time I think of, but still we didn't complain.
They are complaining more today than we did. You see, we thought that that was supposed to be. It was supposed to be. It had to be. Because we knew no difference at all. That's the way we were reared. Now, did all members of Mrs. Donkham, were they all as strong? Yes. Yeah. We had... Yes. I don't think we had anybody there that wasn't from. The most religious one of all was Mrs. Donkham. Yes, Mrs. Jake Donkham. She was... Any rabbi could come to her home and eat regardless. Regardless. There was no one who could equal her when it came to religion or to be religious.
She was the one. Yes. She was the one. Then the people who lived their traditions, does that mean? Everybody was firm. We didn't know of anybody that didn't keep kosher. We really didn't. No. We didn't know of anyone. Were the neighborhoods mostly Jewish? Like in North Dallas? Sure. Alamo, Highland, and Caroline. Caroline. There were three streets before we went to South Dallas. We were reared just as one Jewish family together. There was one man that moved to South Dallas. His, uh, he has grandchildren, his son, just recently, Henry Miller. Mr. Sam Miller had a grocery store on Gould and Beaumont, and he moved to the Cedars.
He was the first. He was the first man that moved. He was the president of the Sheridan congregation. Henry Miller Sr.'s father. Father. His name was Sam Miller. Henry Miller Jr.'s grandfather. And when he moved to the Cedars, there was so much excitement about Mr That was South Dallas That when he moved to South Dallas And we forget that about moving to the Cedars But there are so many things we can tell about that's so unusual that we would never dream today of hearing things like, what we can tell you now, what happened, you know. But when he came to Russia, Shining, New Kipper, everybody went whether it was and no riding don't forget we walked I never will forget the last Russia Shunny that my papa went to shul and Elton was pulling him down Sanger Avenue and he couldn't walk and I went in the house and told mama so mama says was the lieutenant when I told her Papa can't walk.
She says, Reza left on, and Papa died two days later. Two days later, my Papa died, but he walked home from Shoe. I never will forget that. That's how firm people were. Of course, I don't say it was wrong. It was our way of life, and I think that we did some very good deeds. We knew what a rabbi meant. We knew what a shepherd meant. We had the greatest respect for them. Today, if you like the rabbi, it's all right. If you don't like him, it's all right. It makes no difference. And if a few don't like him, he's been out of town in a hurry.
I had to get that in because it certainly happens here. We didn't have a committee of three or four. We had everybody. Everybody had a say-so. Did they all participate? Yes. It was always in you? Always the same group. Always in you. But everybody in the show participated? Yes, ma'am. Just like I told you before, there was nobody poor, nobody rich. They were all alike. Now you want to get to the Herzl-Heichel? Mm-hmm. Then Mr. What was Mr. Kaplan's first name? Aaron Kaplan. Aaron Kaplan was not Oh pardon me Pardon me What was Mrs Jaffe brother He a brother to He was Mrs Jaffee brother He was Mrs Jaffee brother She was Mr.
Jaffee's sister. She was Mr. Jaffee's sister. Mrs. Kaplan was Mr. Jaffee's sister. It's terrible that I don't remember his first name. Not Aaron. Aaron was there. Mr. Lipnerstein took a big part. He was secretary of the men's group, I think, when Mary got out, when Mary quit. He's a brother-in-law to the Mosesmans. He was a brother-in-law to the Mosesmans. When the... Heitel was named after their son. Their son, who passed away. I think it was right before his bar mitzvah. And the Herzl Heitel, wasn't it? Yes. Yeah, right after him. Yeah, it was named Herzl Heiko was the boy's name, and they named it. And that was right in the back of Agudasachen.
I know we went through the doors. Such a nice building. Beautiful building. Sunday school rooms were there, and the rabbi's office was there. Such a pretty building at that time. We thought it was beautiful. And I never will forget when they had the testimonial at this Herzlheichel. It was beautiful when they opened it up. See, I can remember things from back, but if you ask me what happened last week, I'm afraid I can't tell you. What happened to Herzlheichel, the boy? What happened to him? The boy? Oh, yes, he passed away. He'd been ill with her? I don't know just what happened to him. They always said that it was in memory.
That was his name, Herzl Heichl. They didn't change it, you know. Of course, the Jaffys could tell you more about that because they were cousins, Irving, Jaffy, and all the rest of them. Now, did the disciple membership, they were formed in the 20s. Were they as from in the 30s or was there any general change as far as... I think they were always from, as long as Rabbi Abram was in the shul. I think we were always from. I don think anybody was How about Rufky Robinson Did I mention his name Yes Yeah I think they and just like I said before there are a lot of them still keeping kosher you know and going around about that When did they start the school, the Sunday school?
They had a Sunday school before the building, their title was built. Yes, we had in that house, we had a Sunday school. They had a Sunday school when it started? Yes, it started right away. Who were the teachers? Did they have it from their own membership? Just their own membership. Couldn't they have teachers that came here? You know, Rabbi Shapila's brother was a Hebrew school teacher. He taught my children. That was the Bible. That's when he taught me. Yeah. They, um... Who was it taught me over there? Now, the shepherd used to teach. You know, Mr. Lakin, he used to teach. We had Reback for them.
We call them Ryback, Reback. Those were the good old days to me. Today, things are entirely different. I really do. I think everything is so changed. We don't find very many boys and girls today that we can say were real from, at our real firm where we could say I could mention the boys you want me to mention them there was Sally and David Kaplan Harold and Elton Shackman I know Elton and let's see who else Jack Goodman Jack Goodman oh yes Jack and Harold were very close and Marvin Mosesman and how about the Donk people and oh Irvin and Nathan and Honey Donsky and uh let's see who are they?
Even the Moseman boys. I said I said I said. Yeah I said Marvin Moseman. And uh what about the Littleman boys? They used to come there. I don't remember them coming in like the rest of them did. These were younger boys you know that Rabbi Abram was had under his wing. Shalborzoon? Shalborzoon, yes. And I was like to leave him out. And I was trying to do that. Think of some of the other boys and they would go, they would be in show Shabbos, they would be in show Friday night. Very firm. Did they teach after they got older? No, you mean these boys. As they got older, did they teach?
Sao Boising, Sao Kaplan. Sao Kaplan did, Sao Kaplan taught. What about the Hebrew school? When they moved into Herzchow, did they change any, or did they just enlarge the program? Do you remember? There were more people moved in South Dallas at that time where we had a larger Hebrew school. And then we had teachers in Kenya. Yeah, they had teachers. Is that why they built the building, or decided to build the Herzchow building? Was it bigger than a... Well, the reason that I think Mr. Israel on Highland Street, they had picnics. And we had the picnics at Buckman's Dam on Sundays. So at that time, there were jiggies.
And I think they charged 25 cents a round trip, was it, Bertie? Well, you couldn't afford it, even if it was 25 cents a head. So this popping mom and all his kids, Papa had a double-seated Bertie with a cereal on top. Just like the song. So, the Balkans Dam, I think, was eight miles from where we lived. Thirty. Thirty. Eight miles. So the jiffneys would go and come, and when they would be coming back, Papa would still be going. And it took hours. It took hours to go to Balkans Dam in the hearth and the body. And then when the Good Asaphim came into effect, then we went to Kid Springs, we had picnics.
And we went, no, then Papa had a pickup truck then. So we all pied in the pickup trucks. We went to the picnic and took us hours. I mean, the horse and wagon took hours to go to Watkins Bay. This is terrible. I never will forget that as long as I lived. So Papa had a lumbago one time, and he was in bed by three months. Now they called it back trouble then they called it now they call it disc a split disc or a rupture disc But then it was lumbago Nobody knew about this in those days So anyway so Papa had stayed in bed oh just about three months at that time And the goodest of him were having a picnic at Kid Springs.
Well, God forbid to miss a picnic. God should only help us. So Papa had just gotten out of bed. And he says, Bessie, he says, if Kenny, do douse game, do must game some picnic. So at that time they had these, the corsets, you know, with strings. But do you remember that? And so Mama put Papa on this long string corset. And there was Papa sitting up on the bench and so erect with that two person. And God forbid should anyone miss a picnic from the Shul, it was given by the Shul, because we all went in mass, you know, everybody went, and that's where we made money for the Shul.
they sold bottle drinks and different things you know they sold ice cream and what not so we all had to go to the picnics but we all brought the lunches fried chicken was a must and corset you were talking about the corset yeah now she placed the corset on Papa and there's that Papa on that bench with that corset so erect that I'll never forget that site as long as I live because God forbid to miss a picnic that was given by the show so we all went in and lost you know to the picnic but so that's it Papa used to go in them
you know he'd go around all around kid springs and you pick up a work so hard coke battles and his long made two pennies I think was two pennies a bottle when you brought them back and he'd go and stoop all over the park he would go and try to round up the bottles you know and put them in the truck did this go to build a show that yeah the sunny school what for the pop was treasure you know to help with the finances of the show listen everybody had to work and do Because people didn have too much money They had to give
affairs and things You just couldn't say, I want you to give me $1,000 or $500 and pull out a checkbook and get it. People in those days didn't have that kind of money. They had big families. and they didn't have that kind of money and so they had to they had to work what about the dues did they cover or did they cover much of the expense oh no no the affairs that's why they work so hard they to have affairs to raise money for the shul did they have any dues at all said they always they had dues what was very small. I don't know what the Jews were.
Very small. They didn't have any money. There wasn't anybody in there, but there were three of them that had money, you know, just like Jaffe. Mr. Katz and Ellenbow. Yeah, Katz. He was very, very wealthy. You remember? Max Katz. And what's his name? Mr. Jaffe, you know? Yeah, Jaffe gave and Mr. Kaplan. Those were two of the richest. and they really don't you know how he got up at the program and said that they failed to say how much my daddy gave Morris Jaffe got up and put in that not Morris, Erden. That was Morris Jaffe. Was it Morris? That was Morris Jaffe. They got up at the keeper you know that day and he says that they failed to state that had my year I didn't don't give as free as they do today what's here that have money today they give it of course his daddy years ago they didn't he's ready game because he didn't my daddy didn't my daddy had to work my day to be done little yeah but my daddy gave his services and mama and then go in the kitchen and sure and work and work and work peel the carrots by hand peel everything they didn't have no machines like they do here in chas israel everything was by hand remember those carrots they had to cut the carrots mama's fingers were cut up to nothing and i got picking the chickens that's the worst in anything in the backyard my everything was done everybody had chicken lights on them everybody all night we laid up and scratch the chicken lights i never will forget that Right how many chickens 125 chickens Oh one time I know they fixed 80 and every one of us were nearly dead because hardly any of the women came to help us We clapped with a hammer and with a...
Oh, Lord. And Mary, look how much Mary worked. Mary, my sister Mary worked like a dog. Oh, how Mary worked. Oh, how Mary worked. Mary was treasurer later, wasn't she? Sophie Goodman wouldn't come to the affair, you know, at the keep-up. Why? She still feels bad about the money. Well, the money went to a key room. I don't do those things. I'll tell you, what's going to be is going to be. I don't carry no grudge about that. What's the use? What's the use? The money. All right, just do it. Just so it didn't stay with an individual. That's what kills me worse than anything.
And I was at a meeting when this gentleman said that he was going to give up the money. He had it. What else do you want to know my love? About what year was this? About what period of years? Was this in the 20s or in the 30s or in the late teens? 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, Maybe you ought to know it's when you got married. When you got married in 1926. There's one thing I want to get in there. There's a box of bar mitzvahs. 31 and 13 is back to about 34, 33, 32, and 33, and 34 around those years.
Yeah. Now, what about the picnics that they gave? Was that earlier or also in the early 30s that they would give for the show? What did he give right now? That's before. Up there, up there. Before... Where you got your hand? That's an advocate. Oh. That was... See, we married in 26, and they had picnics before we married. Remember? Wait a minute. I was married a month when I became president of the Good Asylum. No! To Fereth Israel. North Dallas Shul. 1919? Yeah. I was married one month and I've been married 53 years. And I was president. I organized that to fair... It's Teferit, Israel now, but they called it at that time the North Dallas Shul.
All right, then when you became active in Agudasachim, what year was that? When we moved out of North Dallas, let's see, one year. Then the Grand Avenue Shul, that was before the Agudasachim. All right. All right, then I can say that Harold couldn't have been more than five or six years old, and Harold's 52 years old. Well, now, when you were president of the auxiliary, that was a fair official and not a good asylum? A good asylum I organized, too. Then you organized both of those auxiliaries? But here's what's happened. When I was married one month, I told you about that before, I went to Ms.
Ben Ablin's house, and they asked me to be president. So then, when we moved away from here, they had the North Dallas Shul they called it North Dallas from North Dallas near McKinney Island on Highland Street then just two or three years later I organized the goodies of him on a feed bag I can just see myself in this feed store with 19 women there were 19 and then they bought the house over there on Forest Avenue and I was president when they built the shul and for 10 years I was president. See, I was president 10 years. Then I want to tell you about the bar mitzvahs.
When Harold, now who was, I don't know who the first bar mitzvah was. When Harold was born Mitzvah, somebody, someone told me to have a picture made with the yarmulke and the tallis on the born Mitzvah boy. What year? What? 13 divided on something. He was 13? No, not on there. That's my, here, on that there, right there. 13 years. He was 13 from 52. He was born in 1920. Yes. 33. Okay. 1923 33 All right So Harold was the first one that took a picture with a palace and a yarmulke and that was the start of the pictures. He was the first. A man at Harper's studio told me to do that.
I'll never forget that as long as I live. And when Rabbi Bromwich walked upstairs, we had the show then. He walked upstairs and we had a sweet table fixed right at the entrance and he saw this big picture on the table with the yarmulke and the and the talus. I have never seen an expression in my can see still see him. He almost dropped over. Was this a custom that they would have a picture of the bar mitzvah kid at the bar mitzvah? No. No, when he got bar mitzvah, was this generally done? No, I'm saying his was the first. Yeah, but with the tallest and the yarmulke, but without, with any type of pictures.
Yeah, they would take pictures, I imagine. They took it. But hell, it was my first. I can't tell you about it. But when you went to a bar mitzvah, was it pretty much the same as it is today, or how was it? Same thing. Of course, they don't spend the monies. I had, they didn't have it. They didn't have the monies to spend at that time. Today, he goes bar mitzvah when he was bar mitzvah. I remember I worked. And I didn't have time to do anything. I worked six days a week. So, what is getting time for the bar mitzvah? So, about a week before the bar mitzvah, I mailed out some handwritten things, old cards.
I mailed out 250 handwritten. all right then the bar mitzvah was Saturday I just want to tell you how they prepare for bar mitzvahs now and how they used to do and the bar mitzvah was on a Saturday of course Thursday mama and I and Mary and Bertie went to the show Wednesday I went down the market I got 50 pounds potatoes. I got my fish. And at night I used to bake cookies. At night I used to bake. And Mama made kiffler. I remember when Fanny Ruchowski came and brought me a cake And Mama made kiffled beets So that Thursday we went to Shule we four of us and we made the defilter fish You remember Bertie And we made the potato salad and mama made those homemade pickles.
And Saturday morning we had them on this. In two days, Saturday morning I went to Shul and I set the table. Bertie helped me. Mary helped me set the table. We had 250 people there. Stanley Joe gave his speech in Jewish. He was the first pharmacy boy who gave the entire speech in Jewish. No English word that Rabbi Bromitz taught him. and here I'm just trying to bring out that how they prepare now oh my lord in two days and it was beautiful we had the tables were filled in two days what was the year 1944 He was born in 1931 and he was 13 years old.
That's 1944. All right. And Elton, when he was bar mitzvahed, he was very, very nervous the day of a bar mitzvahed. So I went to a teacher that taught, um, Uncle McConnell. She told me to give him some spirit of ammonia that that would kind of pep him up. Well, she didn't tell me how to give it to him, so I gave him the whole bottle of spirit of ammonia and almost burned up his throat. He couldn't even get up there and say anything. It was terrible. I never will forget that as long as I was out there. And David, David learned his Torah. and I was fire bitch and Papa said that how come they didn't teach him to Lake Philly and he started up about that that he thought it was terrible that Rabbi Brahmas did not teach in Lake Philly and Papa said that he's not going to go to the bar mitzvah if I'm going to have a bar mitzvah and I said and we not so we I said if my father can come to the Bar Mesa he not to be a bar mitzvah And I did my son that injustice So you know he always brought it up to me Now, in September, he's going to say his bar mitzvah.
I mean his haf torah. Can you share this one? David? David is. He's going to give his haf torah in September. He sure is. Now he did bar mitzvah with one in 41? David was born in 1927, and he was born in 14, 1940. 1940 because he's four years younger than Stanley, I mean older than Stanley. He said he was born in 1931 and he was born in 1927. No. Do you remember the exact year of the charter of South Carolina? Well, I think it was three years after we moved to South Dallas. So that would be when? When did you move to South Ellis?
We moved out there on Browder Street in Shep's house. When? Do you remember the year? After you married. Yeah, after I married. Well, you married in 1918. Yeah. You married in 1918. Alright. Alright. And I wasn't president of Goodesonken when I first got married. of the Grand Avenue Shoe. Now we moved on Sanger Avenue in 1919. On Sanger Avenue. We moved a year after you married. You married in 1918. All right. I was married one month. And we moved on Sanger Avenue in 1919. All right. What are you talking about? We were living on, oh, on Sanger Avenue. I said we, mom and pop and we.
And then you moved next door to mom. All right. So 1919. She's asked me what I know. Wait a minute. 1919, but how much? I'll tell you how much after that. Yes, Carol. Harold, three years old? Wait a minute. I moved, yes, I moved on Browder Street when I married, after I married, and I moved in one of Shep's house, Judy Shep's mother and father, and then Harold was two years old when we moved off of Browder on Gould Street, and Harold, at that time, that's when the Goodest Action was started. About 1922. That's when I started having trouble. About 1922 Ginger. I had trouble with my father-in-law.
He didn't like Rabbi Brownlee. Oh, he wouldn't go for his own first grandson's family. He was a terrible man and he hated, he hated, he hated Rabbi Brownlee with a purple passion. Rabbi Brownwitz said something to him one time. You see, it's cut off isn't it? Yeah. The reason why that old man Oaken hated Rabbi Brownwitz, you remember all that went on with Oaken, got him fired and everything. Rabbi Brownwitz said, you see, Mr. Oaken had a woman in Mexico. and he had two children with that woman in Mexico. One time he was gone for seven years. So let me tell you, so Rabbi Brownowitz said to him, Gage of the Mexicanner Vyde Hustle Hustle.
And from then on, that started the war, just like Hitler or something, that started the war with Rabbi Prophets and Mr. Holm. Gage of the Mexicanner Vyde. See, of course, you know, rabbis are in the public eye, see, and they got from Schweiden, cooking and fighting so what they don't know they do but he didn't see see he didn't he didn't use to have lots of things so he said something to the old man Chapman which he was a terrible man anyway oh he's okay living room he was terrible so so see people some people like that look for things you know of power that you know So he said that to him So that was enough Neely No I lived through hell Every time I went to a meeting I got hell when I got home He lived with me 17 years Did the kids have a good relationship with him as a grandfather or did they...
Yeah, my children always respected him. Could you compare kids today with their grandparents as... No ma'am. I will not. I won't say all. Yeah. But there's some years ago now what Harold went through with it. They respected. They respected him. They lived there 17 years. Do you think it's because they don't live with grandparents or do you think it's just a general attitude? No, they know it all today. Don't you think the children think they know it all most of them? I think that's what the trouble is. If you gave a child a dime to go to the Majestic on Saturday, it was a great thing, but today you give them a dime while they throw it in your face.
Isn't that true? So, I scrubbed every floor in my mama's house for 15 cents on my knees. I went to Majestic. Do you think the fact that they have more money makes the difference, or do you think that they just don't make it a punch? I think they have more money now. But is that the difference that makes the kids? It's the influence. I think this is entirely a new world today. I really do. Do you think that the kids cannot have respect with the affluence? They just don't respect. Do you think the fact that they have money makes them not respect? Is that the factor?
I don't think it's money. What do you think? Well, I think they haven't learned to live with the money, but that's something else. What about the... When you moved from Caroline, that's the old North Deltas. Highland. Highland. All right, then you moved to Sanger. Were there any other moves from Sanger other than, you know, when you got married? Well, me. I moved from Highland to Browder. That's where I moved after I married. See, I lived over Mama's for one month. We were waiting for some furniture to come in from Chicago. And then we moved in Shep's house on Browder. And then I became pregnant there and then Harold was two years old when we moved off of Browder To where To Gould Street And from Gould Gould we moved Sanger Sanger had me next door to my mama The old man built my house Now then He built it and then took it away from us I never forget that as long as I live After you lived on Sanger, where did you move from that?
Here. Here too? I'm here 34 years. I'm the first Jewish family out here. Now, 34 years, that means in 1937 you moved out here. You were the first Jewish family in North Dallas? I was the first out here. There was nobody around me. Then Lawrence Pollock moved in over here on Preston Road. We were the first out here. Were there many houses out here? No. Were there any? No. These were all locked. There was one next door. That's all. This one and that one there and this one because the same, they all three worked for the same company, U.S. Gypsy Company. So the three of them moved down there.
This house was 18 months old and we bought it. And we're still here. I've moved a million times since Bertie lived. I'm living like a gypsy. Now, Libby, though, when you moved, you were in South Dallas first. When you got married on Gould, then no man. No man. No, ma'am. I got a mayor on Sanger. All right. In 1926. All right. Then in 1928, we moved to Sealy, Texas. He went into the produce business there. And we moved to Sealy, Texas. And we lived there until 1933. Then 1933, we moved to Houston. and we lived in Houston until 1936. Then 1936, we moved back to Dallas.
We moved on South Boulevard. We lived there one year, and then in 1937, we bought our house in Oak Cliff. They were the only Jewish children among 2,000 pupils. at the Adamson High, my two boys. And they went to the elementary school They were the only two children who had ever attended that elementary school in oakland my two boys so we lived there from 19 we lived there from 1937 to 37 to 1954 we moved we moved out of oak cliff to where to meadows lane and we lived on meadows lane for five and a half years from meadows lane we moved to an apartment we stayed in that apartment two years from the apartment we moved on yolanda lane and we lived on yolanda lane for three and a half years.
From Yolanda Lane we moved to Royal Lane where we are now. I mean where I just sold my home and we lived there seven years. That's it. God I never heard such moving around. Now let me ask you when Mr. Sheps' family moved to Dallas and how where did they come from? Mr. Sheps' family moved deer in 1913 and they lived on they moved on a dairy dairy forest and forest avenue they opened up a dairy out in bonnie view road did they live on the the old man had been here there before and grandma ships came with six children i think in 1913 yeah 1913 he came here from Europe with his mother from Russia from Poland from Russia now had he had Zabeline he mama Zabeline my my father-in-law was my mama's border for seven years my mama had plenty of orders he didn't know them or nothing he didn't know I got many He gave me a nickels from all of them to finish up a plate of soup.
And then he sent for his family. Mr. Wilde? I used to get Wilde? He used to get Wilde's mama's boarder. Gave me a nickel. When did she start taking in boarders? Do you remember about the year? Oh, God. Poor old mama, she was always a boarder lady. When, uh, in Terrell she used to have boarders. But here, here... We lived in Terrell at one time. Anything to help Papa, you know, make a little money. Yeah, make a living. cow and she sold milk. What years do you remember about the... Well I was... wait a minute. She had the cow... she had the cow in how?
In 1912. In 1912 mama had a cow. See I was eight and I was eight years old when we moved to McGullis's house. You couldn't because I was seven. Oh no, no, no, you were more than seven. What are you talking about? When we moved in McGullis' house, what are you talking about? Oh Sarah Wolf married in 1910. I was six years old, I was born in 1904. And you were five years older than me. You were working at Tych's when we moved in McGullis' house. You were working at Tych's. Now, was that on Highland Street? Yeah. On Highland. That's accurate. Was she taking in borders then?
No. No. Mama was through with borders. That's before 19... She took borders at Carroll? When we lived in Carroll? Well, I don't know anything about Carroll. I was a baby, so I couldn't tell you about Carroll. Mama didn't have any borders on Highland Street. But I was born in 1904. Then, after I was born, Mom and Papa moved to Terrell, and Reuben was born in 1906. In Terrell. In Terrell. He's the only one who was born in Terrell. And then right after that, they moved back to Dallas. Yeah, Reuben was a baby.