Liener Temerlin
Liener Temerlin was born in 1928 in Ardmore, Oklahoma, into a family with colorful roots. His mother's father, Julius Kahn, was a Frenchman from Alsace-Lorraine who took part in the Oklahoma land race, receiving a parcel of land in exchange for writing deeds because of his fine penmanship. Liener adored this grandfather, who made wine and performed magic tricks, and was named Julius Liener Temerlin in his honor. His father, Pincus, came from Lusk in Russia, sent to America by his mother to escape the pogroms and conscription into the Russian army. His parents met in a memorable way, after his father read a newspaper story about two adventurous young women who flew an open cockpit plane, and enjoyed a great love match lasting more than 50 years.
Growing up in Ardmore, Liener was often the only Jewish student in his grade, and was elected president of the 1946 graduating class of Ardmore High. The Jewish community was small, worshiping in a converted church with a rabbi who traveled from Dallas on Sundays. From childhood he was captivated by film, spending hours in Ardmore's theaters and staging marionette shows for the neighborhood. He studied at the University of Oklahoma, earning a journalism degree, and there met his future wife Carla at a sorority dance while the song Some Enchanted Evening played. After college he moved to New York to write for Sponsor magazine, and was called up during the Korean War, serving 13 months as a forward observer and communications officer, earning the Bronze Star and developing a love of Asian art during a trip to Japan.
Drawn always to Dallas, which he considered the capital of the world, Liener hitchhiked there to find work and joined an advertising agency led by Mr. Glenn, whose major account was the Frito Company. Through relationships with figures like Fred Florence of Republic Bank, he came to represent many prominent companies. After his two partners died within weeks of each other, the firm was acquired by Bozell and Jacobs, and he became chairman of the larger entity. He and Carla raised two daughters, Dana and Lisa, in Dallas and were members of Temple Emanu-El. A passionate arts and civic leader, he served as president of the Dallas Symphony, helped create the American Film Institute's 100 Best Films campaign, and founded the Dallas film festival. He credited his charitable grandmother in Ardmore with inspiring his lifelong devotion to community, and treasured his family above all his accomplishments.
Full Transcript
Today is April 4th, 2011. My name is Rosalind Benjett and we are at the home of Lanier Timmerlin to talk about his life and his achievements. Mr. Timmerlin, how did your family get, I I know that you were born in Oklahoma. How did your family get to Oklahoma? My grandmother, my mother's mother, was born in Butler, Indiana. And she went to visit some relatives in Gainesville. What the Jewish family was doing in Gainesville, Texas, I don't know. But there is a cemetery still in Gainesville. And can you hear me okay? and while she was there she met Julius Kahn that had some relatives that had come over from Auschwitz Lorraine to Gainesville and they married and that was about the time of the race for land in Oklahoma.
What year would that have been? I don't remember, but that was the race for land in Oklahoma. Are you familiar with that? They were homesteading, and they had to choose parcels, I think. You know, Oklahoma used to be, it was Indian territory when they settled there. And they had this race for land, and drew a line in the sand, and fired a gun, and covered Wagons race. Well, I had a grandfather that was in that race. He was a Frenchman that came well because he had good penmanship. They asked him if he would write the deeds. So they gave him a piece of land rather than a salary because of his penmanship.
I thought it was a charming story. That was your mother's father or your father's father? No this was my grandfather my mother father who I adored because he did all kinds of magic tricks And he would do pickled tongue and pickled pickled cucumbers And he was big time into wine making Oklahoma. It was a dry state, but not for his name. That's where my full name is Julius Lanier-Termelon. And they had told my grandfather, my mother's sister told my grandfather. They named me after him, so they would have been so disappointed. And he had come from France. From Alsace-Lorraine, yeah. He had some family over here.
There was a cousin, Leon, that was his first cousin. And we still have French relatives over there. They spell their name C-A-H-N. which is the French spelling. I think K is a German spelling. Now, where was I? Okay. You told me about your father, and how about your mother's family? No, that was my mother's family. How about your father's family? Well, I didn't know very little about them. They lived in a town called Lusk, which was in Russia, and there were pogroms going on. during his period growing up, and his mother, who had a, what do you call it, an umbrella and gloves and feminine things that she sold.
and she didn't want to lose her children to the Russian army. Once you got into the Russian army in those days, you never got out of it. So she sent him to join her stepson, a guy named Meyer, that had already come over, and he really brought Dad over. His name was Leonetsky, and dad changed his name to his half name fortunately And that how my grandfather his name was Julius Kahn read in the newspaper that the bridges were out between Hardmore and Durant and my mother and her sister. No, your father read. Pincus read in the newspaper. Yeah, where these two wild girls took a plane from Ardmore to Durant and wanted to meet her.
And I think at first he started Davy Rose. And then met my mother and they started getting together. I don't know how many years they were married, but it was a great love match. Over 50. Oh, yeah. She was in an open cockpit plane. It was big news. Yes, it would have been. When do you think they got married? Do you have any idea? Let's see. I was born in 1928. Are you the oldest? No, my oldest is dead. Maurice Timmeron. But it depends on who was talking about it. It was either Morris or Maurice or Maury. So they got married sometime in the 20s.
And you were born in 1928. Yeah. And you spent your childhood in Ardmore? Ardmore. And I used to go to drive with my father that went to the market he had. He worked for Dalby's department store, which was the principal store in Ardmore. And Leon Dalby and Sam Dalby, I remember as a kid, going over to their home. Do you have all that data there? No, I don't. And I used to drive with my father to the markets here And Dallas to me was the capital of the world and I always wanted to live in Dallas Dallas was the closest large city to Orton Well, Dallas was midway between Oklahoma City and Dallas, but Dallas had a panache that appealed to a young boy.
Did you ever come with your dad to Dallas? Oh yeah, constantly. And what was going to school like in Ardmore at that time? You were in the elementary school? Well, I think there were a number of Jews that lived in Ardmore when I was growing up. But it wasn't large enough for a rabbi, and the rabbi used to come up from Dallas, and instead of a service on Friday or a service Saturday morning, he would come up on Sunday. and this temple was in a reconverted Christian church. It wasn't built for a Jewish synagogue. And did your family celebrate Jewish holidays? Oh, absolutely. Now, Dad was raised as an Orthodox in Russia.
did not like it. And so the services were super reformed. No yarmulke in there. And did you have celebrations at home as well? We celebrated everything, including Christmas, but it didn't hold any religious aspect about it. But even my mother grew up with the Christmas tree. You know, in those days, everyone wanted to fit in in the Jewish community. Right. And what about when you went to high school? What was it like in a school where there weren't many Jewish children? Well, I was the only Jewish guy in the world. In your grade? Huh? In your grade? In my grade? No, there weren't any Jewish kids.
They either got away to school. But there was, when I was president, I was, they had, did I finish telling you that story? No, but not on tape. Huh? They had a race for who's going to be president of the 1946 graduating class. And I was elected. And the part that infuriated my parents was when we had this new intercom system that was high tech, where you could speak from the office of the school to all the schools. You look back at them, it was very amusing. And they said to announce the, whose president we're using our new fandangled high tech speaker to announce that it's Lanier Termlin, the first Jewish president in the history of Ardmore High.
which infuriated my parents, which was very amusing to me. But I guess I was not known as Lanier-Tamil-Ankama Jewish. Right. So you didn't experience any kind of anti-Semitism or anything like that in high school? No, there was occasion where I was dating this girl who was raised in a Christian home, whose father was Jewish. And I had my favorite teacher, was a geography teacher, Mrs. Morgan. I always remember her. And she didn't know I was standing in back of her. And she said, are you still dating that Jewish kid who lived in there in Timberlake? And you know I pulled her skirt to let her know I was saying that I think that converted her I hope so.
Were there any kind of Jewish organizations in our north? There was a hodassa. Most of that activity outside the temple took place in my grandmother's home. My grandfather was on that race, her home, and as each child got married, they had four He built homes for me, wanted his kids to be close to him. There was a house that was built for my mother and for Rose and their brothers, one moved to New York and one moved out to California. But for a while they all lived close by? No, they never did. They got married and they ... But there was always a family reunion a couple times a year.
And did your parents continue to live in Ardmore? Oh yeah, until they died. And what were your interests when you were in high school? I think I wanted to be a movie producer or director. I love film. Hardmore had three theaters and my window of the world were those three theaters. I saw every movie that was ever made when I knew there were movies. And I went from movie to movie. It was the Tivoli. Gosh, I used to know the name of those theaters. The Ritz. The Ritz. And there was another one. The Globe. The Globe. The what? Globe? Was that the name? Tell them about the productions that you used to put on.
Did you put on productions? Oh yeah. And when you were in high school? When I was very little There was a show called with the Texas Centennial When was that? 1938? 1936. 1936. 1936. I was eight years old. There was the Casa Manana that was on in Fort Worth with, what was the lady that did the dances with the big fans? Oh, Sally Rand. Sally Rand. And I can remember my parents talking about Sally Rand. Well, I didn't want a Sally Rand in my life. And I had a little sister who didn't have a fan. Excuse me. I caught hell for this, by the way.
I had my sister undress, and because I didn't have a fan, I looked in the refrigerator and there was an apple. So I had her holy apple in front of her private support come out and do a show. I caught a spanking for that. I would think so. It was the best show I ever put on. On the marionette. Oh, someone gave me a marionette, and so I was forever putting on marionette shows. You gave tickets to the neighborhood. Yeah, I think I even had one of those tickets somewhere. That's amazing. So you always were interested in film and show business. And then after high school, what did you decide to do?
I went to the University of Oklahoma and joined the Jewish fraternity. And, oh, at least I don't think I ever told you this, but they had that homecoming, they had these decorations that fraternities have I told you this And I was put in charge of my fraternity brothers coming up with a concept And I had had a marionette show and I thought it would be neat that if I built this huge marionette stage that instead of marionettes, I would have guys dressed like marionettes. I could tell you that at least. and they had ropes attached to their arms and legs. And there was a stand where guys would take up and it gave the appearance that these were big lifestyle puppets.
And we won. I think we won. the best. By the way, it was the problem with it. These guys got exhausted. Putting those shows up. But it was a neat idea. It was a neat idea. I had this great paper mache. A lot of work. Puppeteer. I haven't thought of that. And did you study filmmaking? Was there filmmaking in those days? I had my life to live over. But the good thing about getting in the agency business, it called upon all aspects of the performing arts. And so it was tailor-made for me. So you studied business? No, I had a journalism blow and to get a fine arts degree I had to take an acting class.
It wasn't too good, but it was fun getting into plays. I thought I'd be a playwright. That's what college is for. Yeah. What else did you enjoy doing during your college days? Did you continue seeing movies? Oh sure. That's where I met my wife. Ah, and how did you meet her? I had a date with a girl that was in this sorority, and I went to the sorority dance, and I saw this drop dead gorgeous woman child really she was 16 and I just embarrassingly left my date on the dance floor I'm not proud of that she lives here Beverly the girls were with me at some party and she said to you did your dad ever tell you what she did to me It was just terrible.
But she was laughing. She was cute about it. Cut in. I was dancing with Carla, and I said, we're going to get married, and she says, and you're going to a funny farm. We did. But not that year? No, I would have. It would have been date rape. Ironically, what was the song playing? Oh, Oklahoma. Oh. It was, and the song they were playing, which became our song, was Some Enchanted Evening. You'll see a stranger across the crowded room, and somehow you'll know you'll know what you're doing. How romantic. Yeah, choking up a little bit. Well, we'll come back to that. What did you do after you graduated?
I went to work for a magazine called Sponsored Magazine as one of the writers. Where was that located? In New York. Oh, you decided to go to New York? Yes, and I went to work coincidentally by a name named Glenn, Norman Glenn, who had who had a publication that was geared to go to the trade journal to write stories. And you were a writer? Yes. And I thought I was. What was I saying You were working in New York at the magazine Yeah Carla was working to help support us Oh, you were married by then? Oh, yeah. Do you remember a cosmetic called Charles of the Rich?
Yes. And there was a powder blending. Does that exist anymore, Charles of the Rich? I don't think so. And you would blend powder to match. And Carl had this impeccable skin. Skin still does. And they were standing in line to buy this powdered mix of Charles Luritz so they could look like a complexion, that's the word I'm looking for, like the lady that was demonstrating. So she sold Charles of the Ritz, and you were working as a writer. Yeah. What trade was the magazine serving? It went to their market. It was called Sponsor. went to corporations and to advertising agencies. That's when I became when I called on agencies to do stories about products.
I was making so little I thought I could be a good copywriter. So that's when I decided that's what I wanted to do. You wanted to go into advertising rather than magazine writing. The story I remember about getting into the agency business and what I decided to do. The agency business at one time was select clientele. They just weren't Jews. And today, the joke in the industry is you want a Jewish copywriter and Italian art director. Was it like Mad Men in those days? Very much so Tell us about Well I don't think that's an area I want to go into Well not everything Can you cut that part out You got your first job at an advertising agency What did you do there I didn't get a job.
The Korean War came along. And when I was in college, I was helping my parents put me through college. I joined ROTC because you had the payment. Right. It helped pay you expenses. It was right after World War II. Who would have thought about it? I'd never even heard of Korea, that there was going to be a Korean War. And so I was called up in the reserves as a foreign observer. Do you know what a foreign observer is? No, tell us. This is the officer that stands on a mountain top in front of the infantry calling back in codes on where the enemy had their...
the average life of a forward observer is nil because the enemy wants to get the forward observer out. But, you know, it's interesting, I got the bronze star and the lines went out. I was a communications officer and I needed to take the new lines from point A to point B and the enemy shells were coming in. I didn't think there was anything brave about it. It's strange you're asked to take a lieutenant and take this over to point B. You just do it. And if I was frightened, I'm not sure I'd have done it. And how long were you in Korea? Thirteen months. I had a thing called R&R, are you familiar with that expression?
Yes. And I went to Japan. That's where I got interested in the Orient, which is the SeaWorld. When you went to Japan? As a matter of fact I bought this in Japan What I like about it if you look closely it a Morgan David Yes Go ahead and show it Hold it up a little while. Good. It's a beautiful weave. Beautiful. Okay. I love those those Buddhas that you have I found on the street on Seoul so that started your interest in Asian art I think so and when you came home after being in Korea? Where did you go? I hitchhiked to save money to Dallas.
You landed in San Francisco? No, no, no. When I came back, I lived in Scarla. My baby was born, our baby. My daughter, Dana, left Scarla pregnant. and came home. Hardmore didn't want to live in Hardmore, but I'd always loved Dallas. Tell them how you found out about the birth of Dana. About what? When you were in Korea, how you found out about the birth of Dana. Oh, there were two telegrams that came in, and I thought for a while that we had had twins. But anyway, let's see. Because they both said there's a baby. Yeah. Let's see. Did I finish answering your question? Yeah.
So when you returned to the U.S. and you and Carla decided you didn't want to live in Hardmore, what did you decide to do? Well, it was New York. Oh, it was New York. Yeah, and I certainly didn't want to live in an Ardenmore. So I hitchhiked to Dallas and started knocking on doors to get a job. And things were going swimmingly well with the last agency I called on. They said, go to get the final green light. You need to talk to the owner, Mr. Glenn. Their big account was the Frito Company, which was much smaller than it is today. and they had received a letter putting them on notice that they were going to have an agency review.
And it wouldn't have mattered. I didn't know that, but they wanted me, it was some fresh thinking, looking for a job, and I wouldn't work for anything. And I did. and to get the job they said you need to get Mr. Glenn's okay and things were going well and then he asked Mr. Timberland are you Jewish I didn't know what he wanted to hear so I said not necessarily Which I thought was funny. He, by the way, didn't. If I ever write a book, whatever I do, I'm going to call it not necessarily. But he hired you anyway. But he hired me anyway. And what kind of work did you do at first?
I was a, what they call now, the creative director. My principal job was getting Mr. Glenn coffee in the morning. That was more important than writing coffee. Okay. And where did, when you, you had said that you always wanted to live in Dallas when you were a little boy, and you did, you and your wife came to live in Dallas then. Where did you live? Well, I first lived in, I came here until I knew I was on a trial basis. And you know where Edgemere is? We had an apartment in Edgemere And Carla had saved enough money from the little she was getting that she bought this contemporary furniture that was in a window in Ardmore and that furnished her living room and dining room.
And you had one child at that time? Yes. And what were the clients that you were working with at that time? Frito. Frito and a part of Republic Bank, which is now Bank of America. It's gone through. And I became a guy by the name of Fred Florence. Yes. Do you know that name? Yes. He had this huge office, and they had just moved in the silver building. You know, the one that has the stars and the aluminum, I guess it is. The Republic Bank building. The Republic Bank building. He liked me, and I ended up, because of him, being introduced to all members of the board.
of what was Republic. And those are companies that don't exist anymore. But really through Mr. Glenn, I'm sorry, through Jim Aspen, who was the second in command, and then became first with Fred Florence and I. We had a great relationship, and he ended up getting me introduced to every member of the board, and that included a company like Coal Employers Casualty, Blue Cross Blue Shield, the Southland Corporation, which was 7-Eleven. And there were a number of them. I ended up representing every board member, everyone that had the business of getting clients. And how long did you work for that company? Well it was my two partners both died with 30 days with each other almost the hour They were one was I don want to say it but they both died And so our agreement was if they died, you could buy the stock at Boog Value, which really served those that were left very well.
It didn't serve the air as well. But the... I'm a little lost. I'm trying to remember. The agency said that's how you stayed with Glenn. Yeah, I stayed with Glenn. And then two guys, Chuck Piedler and Alan Jacobs, had an agency called Bozell and Jacobs. And it was based in Omaha. Their principal account was Boys Town. He's not heavy fiber, he's my brother. I remember that one. There was always an argument. Was it Mr. Mosell that came up with the line or Mr. Jacobs that came up with the line? They were forever. They bought our company. But I treated that sale, I'm proud to say, as if they were still alive.
To be sure their widows have an equal share. And then I became chairman of the much larger entity. Let's go back a minute. What was Dallas City like when you moved here in the 50s? Well, Dallas to me was Rome and Paris. It was always an exciting city. The one that really, we were dear friends by the way, that put Dallas on the map was Stanley Marcus. They had been in the oil business and the cotton business. It was more a cotton city when I came down here than the oil business That sort of went to Houston How about the Jewish community Were you affiliated at all in those days Oh yeah we joined Temple Emanuel And once you bought the company, you weren't living in the little apartment on Edgemere anymore, right?
You moved? No, we moved into a GI house. It was $12,300 or something like that. They had to give me a raise in order to meet the requirements. But they didn't want to lose me because I was handling. all of the business that was there. That was on what street? Crestridge. Crestridge. Did you know there's a street and town named after Carla? One of my accounts was Syntex, the home builder. Yes. And they loved Carla. And they named the street in their development. in East Dallas, and it's a major boulevard called Carla, K-A-R-L-A. Is it Carla Sue or just Carla? Just Carla. You're not in there?
No, I think it's great. That would have not been so good if they named it Liner. But then you moved after that. Yeah, I moved to Cybrook. Trujillo. Oh, yeah. to Drew John, which was a development of Ray Nashors. Where was that located? North of Northwest Highway. By the way, Forest Lane. North of that was his development. And obviously you had more than one daughter. This is our youngest daughter. Dana was the one that was born when I was overseas. And she now lives in a neighborhood. A woman outside of Houston called Woodland. Woodlands? Mm-hmm. And she's a beautiful girl, too. Mm-hmm. And when was Lisa born?
We don't know. It's 1955. Okay. And so both your daughters went to school in Dallas? Yes. Mm-hmm. Lisa went to the University of Texas. Let's go back to you're now in your own company. Well, I'm part of it. I'm part of it. And were you still interested in film at this point? Oh yeah. A couple things I'm very proud of. You know the 100 Best Films? That was my marketing concept for the American Film Institute, the AFI. There was a lady, I used to go to the Kennedy Honors a lot, and we became friends with... Jane? No. She's a movie actress. Where's Carla? Who was on the board of the American Film Institute.
Do you know what that is? Tell us. Well, it's a preservation of a moving image. and they were not well known. And I developed some marketing ideas for them on the 100th anniversary of the American film is that they named the top 100 films that have been made And that put them on the map. It became well known. Raising money became infinitely easier. And out of that came the 100 best comedies the 100 best actors I started the film festival here in Dallas by the way which was just in our fifth year Weren't you the only non-industry board member on AFI? Oh, yeah, they wanted to get someone on the AFI board.
I'm trying to think of the actress's name. We can come back to that later if you want. Tell us about founding the film festival in Dallas. I was in my office one day, and a guy wanted to see me by the name of Michael Caine. And he was a friend of, what's Mark Cuban's partner? What's his name? Oh. It eludes me at the moment. Was a friend of Michael Cain's. And Michael wanted to start a film school. He said, you ought to talk to Lenore Timmel about that. He's raised a lot of money, blah, blah, blah. And so he said, he came to see me.
and said, Lanair, I can't think of that guy today. He said, I'll talk to you about this, but would you be interested in helping start a film school in Dallas? It's not under life. He was walking out. I said, I'll tell you what I would be interested in. We're a city that's outside not to have a film festival. It's a shame. But we ought to have Austin, was well known already, I suppose, about the time, 20, 25 years old, south by southwest. And they now built a music component into it Film we are larger than Southwest And it's my hope in the next few years that the film festival here has a musical component.
It's going on right now. And you were prominently honored last week, right? Yeah. Can you tell us about that? Yeah, it was kind of overkill. It was nice. It was the fifth anniversary of the film festival. Can you hear me? Yes. It was the fifth anniversary of the film festival. And there was a special program, right? Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. And let's see, I read that Ann-Margaret came. She did. And a bunch of directors and filmmakers. We ended up, I think we had something like 1,800 films submitted. I'm not sure about that figure. or smaller than well over a thousand entries, in which they ended up getting 100 and selecting 120 or something like that, 112.
And it's become prominent in the United States, as a matter of fact, throughout the world. So what is your favorite film of all time? I have a number. Probably the one with Louise Reiner, The Good Earth. Have you ever seen it? No. You have. Didn't you love that film? I love that. I love Betty Davis movies, the old films. Mrs. Skeffington, or Mr. Skeffington, I think is the name of it. And Oscar and Lucinda Have you seen that I think so The Legend of 1900. No. Cinema Paradiso. Uh-huh. Have you seen that? Yes. You've been involved in a lot of different civic activities in Dallas.
What were your favorite projects? Well, like them all, when I was growing up, I had a grandmother that was very much into charitable work. and I used to go with her, my mother would drive her, to go grocery shopping and she would buy all these groceries and then we'd go into the poor part of Dallas, I'm sorry, of Ardmore and I'd go in, help her carry the groceries into their homes and at one point in Ardmore when they were using softer language they called a spade a spade it was called the Rebecca Conn poor farm and she one time there was a banquet in her honor and I remember it so proud she got this plaque being Ardmore's most useful citizen and so I learned she would take any of these kids into her home that were homeless kids and I can't remember their names but there would be two or three or one time I would tell you that so that became a big lesson for us all And that inspired you, you think, to get back?
Oh, I'm sure that's where it came from. And which projects that you've worked on in Dallas have been meaningful for you? One guy by the name of Don Carty, who was the CEO of American Airlines, and I chaired fundraising activities for Global Outro, and that was very rewarding. And you've been involved in cultural activities as well. In what? Cultural arts. Oh, yeah. The Dallas Symphony. I played a major role in. I really enjoyed that. I was sitting there last week and thinking, what a wonderful job they did with that building. I.M.T. was the architect. And Russell Johnson was the acoustician. Oh, it took me a year to learn to say that word.
And tell us about your family today. About my family today? The best ever. The best grandchildren. I have great grandchildren. Tell us about your, how many grandchildren do you have? I have five or six, three, four, five, five grandchildren, and two great Oh And they all live in Dallas No one they all live in Dallas but one Or Texas, but one. And that's Blake. And he lives in Boston. And he is? And I have two sons in Boston that are 24 carat. And so you had two daughters and two sons? Two sons-in-laws. Oh, two sons-in-law. Yeah. And one great-grandson. And one great-grandson. I have two great-grandchildren.
Two? One of your granddaughters. Carrie is married, and so you have a new... Well, Carrie is a granddaughter, but I have two great-granddaughters. So how many children does Dana have? Two boys, men. And Lisa? She has two sons, one daughter and one son-in-law. And they're all, I'm happy to say, 24 carats. That's wonderful. That's terrific. My wife had a great put-down on that. We were sitting in this room, and Grant, our oldest, walked in. And I got some tears in my eyes. Now he's 31. And this lady elbowed her husband and I look at it sensitively serious He cries when his grandson walks in and says Carla said, don't let those tears go.
He cries at supermarket openings. A lady with a sense of humor. Oh, it does it. I see it. And how do you think the city of Dallas has changed since you lived here first? Well, I think Dallas has a great foundation with extraordinary leaders. Stanley being one. We were best friends. Sanger and Harris and Dreyfus. They had the retail business, but they were very much involved in other activities. At one time, by the way, there were three Jews that were the head of the architecture. arts arena. One was the urban meeting that was president of the Dallas Museum. I was president of the Dallas Symphony and Annette Strauss did I mention her No.
She was president of the museum, I think, at the time. No, yes. No, she was president of... She started Taka, by the way. Oh, okay. I didn't know that she had started Taka. And of all the things that you've accomplished, what are your favorite projects? Our family. Okay. I think the thing I'm having the most fun at is starting the film festival. That's a pretty big achievement. It's a lot of fun. And you've enjoyed working with it? I would very much so. Is there anything that we didn't talk about that you'd like to add? No, I don't think so. Okay, great. Thank you.