Meyer Rachofsky
Meyer Rachofsky was born in 1900, the first in his family born in the United States. His father, a blacksmith who learned his trade in Europe, came from Russia or Poland, first landing in Colorado and later marrying in Dallas. His mother came to Dallas because her sister was already here. The extended family included many relatives who changed their names, such as the Skyballs (originally Skabelsky) and the Rays (formerly Rachofsky), several of whom were natural musicians who once formed a family band that played at Woodman Hall. Meyer had a half-brother born in Canada and an older sister who, though women were not formally taught, learned Hebrew by listening over his shoulder.
The family lived at Caroline and Cedar Springs near Congregation Tiferet Israel, where Meyer attended cheder and was bar mitzvah. He later moved to South Dallas, living on Poplar, South Forest, Grand Avenue, and South Boulevard before settling into his final home in 1955. His formal secular education was limited to Cumberland Hill and some high school, supplemented by years of night classes and the American Institute of Banking. After being fired from Sanger Brothers, where nearly every young Jewish person worked, and jobs at Sears and selling hats and ballpark cushions, he entered banking almost by accident, moving from small banks to the Mercantile, where he rose to executive vice president over more than four decades.
A deeply observant man who kept a kosher home and refused to work or ride on the Sabbath and holidays, Meyer served as president of Tiferet Israel for many years and helped acquire land and build synagogue facilities, later negotiating a shrewd sale that greatly benefited the congregation. He joined Sherith Israel for its Sunday school. His communal work centered on Golden Acres, the Jewish home for the aged, and the Jewish Federation, and he was active in the Variety Club, the Elks, and the Masons. In his interview he recalled the close-knit early Jewish community, the merchants of Deep Ellum and downtown, the learned immigrants he admired, and his candid views on prejudice, politics, and Jewish life in Dallas.
Full Transcript
How many years does that make you? 31 years ago. Are you first generation? Did your father? I'm first generation, yes. Your father was first generation. No, he wasn't born here though. Was he born in the United States? No, he was born in Europe. Where did he come from? From here? He first landed in, I think, in Colorado. In Colorado? I thought in Canada. Didn't he get married in Canada? He might have first landed in Canada, but when he came to the United States, I think he came to Central City, if I'm not mistaken, in Colorado. That's where Uncle Neck was. And that's where they first came up there.
And then later on, I don't know how my dad got down here. My sister could probably tell anybody like that on that. But they married here in Dallas. Because daddy was here, and my mother, I was showing, came here because her sister was here. Mrs. Frank Byers was her sister. Let her so rest in peace. and brought money here, and then my Aunt Lena came from Shum, and Aunt Ida came later. Aunt Ida came later. That's Ida Goldstein. And so that Andorra and Uncle Izzy, Izzy Skyball, that's my uncle, that's the brother of my mother, I'll show them. And the name was Skyball, Skabelsky what it was, and they changed it to Skyball.
That's when all these Skyballs, like in Lubbock, Archie Skyball, and Sidney Skyball, and Uncle My uncle Izzy Skyball here, that's the name they changed to. And of course, I don't know how my other uncles came here. Uncle Neff came from Colorado. I remember when he came here And all the children they were all musicians every one of them Every one of them played some kind of uncle cousin Lou I would show them L Ray He never took a lesson in his life, but he could hear a tune and he could sit down and play it. All by ear. All by ear. And Cousin Harry, I would show them, was my, was J.H.
Ray, they changed the name to Ray, J.H. Ray Jewelry Company. That was the cousin, he played the fiddle. And Peter, I would show them, played the carnet. Yeah, I know, didn't it? Carnet. Well, Sterling plays the carnet. Now you're talking, you're going to another generation now. Let me see. Then I had some more cousins, like Cousin Lou, Louis P. He worked at Sanger Brothers some fifty-five, sixty years ago. He played the clarinet. And Cousin Harry Abisham, his brother, played the drums. And one time they had a Rachowski band here. They used to play over here at the Woodman Hall over on South Horwood Street. Are you recording, Erwin?
Yeah, it's being recorded. And he used to have dance and everything up there. And like I say, Lou played the piano, Harry the fiddle, and Tito the carnet, and Harry played the drums, and Louis P. played the clarinet. But there's another one that we see. How about Abe? Oh, he never played nothing. He played the kazoo. I mean, there's kids that just can't get on the corner. But anyhow, then my uncle, Gabriel, that he saw rest in peace, He was a laundromat and his family was Oscar, let his soul rest in peace. Well, you mean, don't you? Why'd I... You mean, keep coming. Well, am I bothering you?
Yeah. I thought I'd be in my car. No well if I want to put my knee up there and dig it off for comfort it all right And let me see then I had another uncle here Uncle Meshire and he said rest in peace Let me see, that's about all they were. We had four brothers, Meshire, probably four of them. And ask more questions. How did they-do you know how they happened to come to Dallas? That I cannot tell you. I can't figure how dead he came to Dallas. Do you know when he-where did he come from? I couldn't answer that either. Before he came to the-to Colorado.
I think he came-I think he came from Colorado. How he got here and why he came here, I don't recall. Where was he born? Over in Russia. I remember they kept talking about that, and Cosnopoli over there. I think from over in Poland, Russia, the way that all that monkey business was over there. I don't know how come dad I was shown to come here. I don't know. Do you know when he came? I don't know, but I was born in 1900. So he came before 1900. Was your older sister born here? Here, yeah. Brother Esau was born in Canada or- My brother Esau was my half-brother, so if your papa I was shown with, married, and living with-in Canada when my brother Esau was shown with, was born.
But she died at her sole rest piece when Lisa was just a small kid. What's the year ago? I don't remember how old he was. And let's see. And her family was in Cleveland, Ohio. And I think he probably went to Cleveland and then came here. I don't know just exactly. Then I don't know why I never did check into that. I know my mother was brought here by Hans Frottle and bars. Do you know when she came? Then I couldn answer either But I was sister older than I am so it must have come somewhere around 1890 I guess What was the background of your Jewish education?
We're limited. My Jewish education was in the home. Naturally, I went to Chater. We had kind of half-baked Chater there at the Fareth Israel. And I wonder when that Fareth Israel was. When that got to be in, I forget that. But I went to Chater at the Fareth Israel when they were on-it was known as Highland Street down, right below where Cedar Springs is now. Right there by the Sanford building, about three doors behind it was a show. I used to go to Hayter there, and then also had the rabbi come to the house and they taught us. And my sister, you know, women never were taught anything, but my sister, she was very nosy and learned.
Her head was right over my shoulder and listening, and she can read better, for tides better than I can. She can write a Jewish letter while I can. She can read a Jewish letter. But really got it in the home, and of course we knew what show was, and we always went. And that was, you might say, the second home was synagogue. And my dad, I was shown, was, after he married, he never worked on Saturday or on Yentiff's. I mean, even these minor holidays, we're not talking about just real rest shunny and kipper like a lot of them, but every holiday, regardless of what it is, he never worked on the holidays.
He was always in the show, in this high, and the show was, like I say, the second home, and after services in the morning, they'd go home, and then they'd come back about 2.30, three o'clock and about a half a dozen of learning People in those days, they had a lot of learned ones. We thought these Jewish people, they'd come over, they were greenhards, they didn't know anything. They were brilliant. They just did not know the language. But they came up the hard way, and they had an education. Education was very important in Europe, more so than it is here, in my opinion. And my dad, let his soul rest in peace, was on the high holidays.
Now, this is an Orthodox congregation some 60 years ago. And he would daven before the helmet on Rush, Onion, and Kipper. That was an unusual variety. Now you've got anybody davening, you know what I'm talking about. But in those days, and my Uncle Byron led his soul recipes, he used to give it to Russia on Rush, Onion, and Kipper. He was a little dried up thaw. but a learned man and he was, remember I could see him on a little podium, kind of rocked with it and he was giving them the Torah now the rabbis give you the topics of the day or whatever they want to give you but he gave it to you from the Khrush on the high holidays in those days the Jews went to show too that little synagogue, I forget how many would hold but on the high holidays and the kindergarten was right on the next corner there.
And they used to rent a hall and they'd have a chosin there for the overflow. And they did a pretty good volume of business because people came in from the forks of the creek. A lot of Jews were scattered in these small towns. And they would come in on Pesach and the Russian Union and Kipper like nobody's business. I remember a lot of them coming in. And the synagogue was really something and they believed in it. But the people, like I said, that came to this country, we said they were greenhorns. And they were greenhorns as far as language was concerned. But they knew the Chumish and the Tarion and the Tanaka and everything.
They knew the meaning of it. They sat down on Saturday, and I talking about learned people like old man Andrus I was shown and Rabbi Weinstein I was shown and Uncle Bar I was shown and others eight or ten around that table they read one Pusick and sometimes they argue on that Pusik interpretation for hours I mean they were learning Today, it's a hit and a miss, you know what I mean. But our people in some 50, 55, 60 years ago or more, man, they were there, and they were dedicated. They were dedicated, and they loved their religion. and religion meant something to them. Today, with all the Jewish population we have, how many people do we have going to show that really dedicated?
They come there in the morning on Rosh Hashanah, and after about an hour or two they go home, and maybe they come back for the Mithra and Mithra, and maybe they don't. Even on Yom Kippur, you see the show is half empty after the day. It's only, they want to yell, call the Nedry, and then, uh, yell for Yuska, they're there, and then they also, uh, what's that last, uh, Neely. They want to get that Neely in there when the doors were open, and now they sit down half the time before everybody stood up, and they were really praying. It wasn't just Doblin, they were really praying.
They were putting their hearts out to it. And it's sad when you see how people have forgotten the good Lord in heaven who made them and who is master of all. They forgot about him. I was clumsy. And I go here because it's right around the corner. And going to Ferris Hill, it's a, oh, I forgot how many miles it is. It takes about 10, 12 minutes to drive over there, but in OSU and Kipper, I don't ride. I walk. I don't care if it's raining or anything else. I even got fireman stuff to wear in case of rain. And because that's what I was taught.
And when we moved to South Dallas, and our show was still in North Dallas, We walked from, I think it was on Grand Avenue, wasn't it, honey? On Grand Avenue? 41. We walked from over on Grand or South Boulevard all the way to North Alleyes and back on Rosh Hashanah On Yonge Kippur we used to go down there drive down there and after services we go to the Mayfair Hotel just to spend the night because there was no eating. And then the next morning, you'd walk back and you'd stay there in Shul all day, and after services, then you got your car and went home.
And that's where we were taught. And that's all there is. And I think that religion, far as I'm concerned, has to be taught in the home. That's my feeling about it anyhow. What other questions do you have? What is the extent of your Jewish observance, and has it changed? When you were a child now, how did you observe your holidays? Well, the same way, as far as a high holidays, Pesach I observed 100 percent. I'd take my lunch with me, and when I didn't take my lunch in days gone by, I'd go eat an apple and a banana, and that was my lunch. Well, I'd come home.
When we lived in South Dallas, I'd come home with Phil Blatt. I was showing him. He lived across the street, and we'd come home and get a bite to eat. Granny would pick us up and take us about seven or eight minutes to go from downtown to South Boulevard. And we'd go home, get lunch, and come back. And now out here, I just take a little lunch with me. And when I get ready, when it's time to eat, I close my door. I'm out to lunch. And that's all there is. I don't make no bones about it. There's like they're kidding me sometime down there.
about it. He takes all his holidays and all ours. I said, that's exactly right. That's what you get for not being a Jew. But I don't make no bones about it. This is it. Period. And when my mother, I was shown, passed away, or my dad, First Lady, so rest in peace, I going to show both the morning and the evening. And no matter what I had to do, bingo, when I'm leaving, I left. And like the days are shorter in the winter, I leave what, 3.30, 4.00, 4.30, whatever time it had to be, I left. I don't believe I missed a cottage on either one of them Nigga missed one We were there at Fred Thistle but it was snowing We didn have a million from Mitha but we finally hustled one from Iris They don put all this stuff in the booth No, they'll just take whatever they want to take.
You mentioned that you lived near Highland Street, near the Shull. We lived on Caroline and Cedar Springs. You know where that is? Cedar Springs and Highland, that's where you go right down, they call it, North Accord now. Well, instead, when you get right to the corner where the Sanford building is, right down the next corner is where we live. Right on the corner, Caroline and Cedar Springs. There's no walk right, come right up that, up Cedar Springs and go over to the show. About what year was that? It must have been 1910, 1909, 11, 12, because I was by mistake there in 1913. Where did you move from there?
How long did you live there and about where did you move from? I lived there until 1924 when I got married. Then I moved down on Poplar Street, and then when we'd go to show, we'd come down on Caroline Street to show, go to Yontif. We'd stay at the house on Yontif. And then when the folks, when Mama and Michelle moved, Papa and Michelle passed away in 29, And when we moved south, we spent once or twice with Willie over there. And we stayed in somebody else's house out there one time. I forget whose it was now. On South Boulevard? Yeah, on South Boulevard. And from Poplar Street?
Well, I was a first man. I moved on Poplar Street, and then I moved over on South Forest. Oh, yeah. I moved on forest. We rented an apartment there, going to Clark, wasn't it? And I was renting, and then I bought a house on 2909 Grand. And we lived on Grand until we moved on Boulevard. What year did we do that in? I sure know. But, uh, and, uh, we lived there until we moved over here. Moved here in 55. Would you say that was in the early 30s, then, that you moved here? No, it was later in the 30s. Well, we've been here 50 and 50 in here.
Yeah, but, honey, on Boulevard we lived there. How long did we live there? Well, it's been time I think. Martin was born on the 100th and that's 41 years ago. Helen was born in 1641, so how do you think? Now, Martin was born in 1930, I think. She was. She was 41. Yeah. And now on 33. I think she was born on Grand, too. Martin was born on Grand, she was, too. Martin was, Evelyn, I think, Marilyn was born on Poplar. I think Evie was born on forests, wasn't she? Yeah, yeah. I don't think so. The mayor was born on poplar. So about 40, what did you say, 1940?
See, we moved on, we moved on Grand about 29, somewhere like in 1929. They were all born when we moved over on Plains that time of year. They were all born over there. How long did we live on Boulevard, don't you think? I don't know if that's the end of the band. I don't know if it was on him. Let's see the mark. The mark came. We moved out of there somewhere around- Oh, the kids went to Brown? Somewhere around 40. I think it was around 40 when we moved out of there. Because I tried to sell the house, and I couldn't. And after the war broke out, then the houses got very important, don't you remember?
So it was around 1940, I think. Yes, honey? Honey we were living on Boulevard We were living on Boulevard when the war broke out because we were over at Gordon house They had that briss over there Yeah December 1941 December 7th It was a briss, wasn't it? A pit in a bin. And I mean, we were on, that was in 1941. We were So I guess from about forty, we lived there about fifteen years, I guess. And of course, then we moved over here. That's the crop of the moving. Now, oh, back to Jewish observance and the holidays. Do you feel you observe them the same way now as you did?
Are you as from today? I try to be, I try to be. We still keep a kosher house. And Friday night, Friday night, when I was on Boulevard, though, I remember we had a piano, whatever it is, the kids did not, there was no playing the piano on Friday night. And a lot of other things, there was no, no business on that. I try to observe, just like I, a lot of people go fishing, or go somewhere on Chavez. I don't want to ride on Chavez, if I go somewhere. I won't start off on Shabbos. Like I went to Mayo's one year there. We left here on Friday.
Friday, huh? We left on Friday, baby, don't you remember? And we stayed in that motel up there Saturday. And we didn't get out of there on Sunday. I think when you drove. I'm talking about where we drove. We drove most of the time with Arie, honey. That's our time with- We should have won such a trade, didn't we? Huh? When you had your daughter taken out in 46, you said- I went up on a trade in that time. I'm not talking about that. We left still on Sunday on that one. Saturday night. Saturday night after Shabbos. So you pretty much observed like you did. Tried to modify that, put it.
When you were talking about studying at the Shul before was that on Shabbos afternoon when everybody had come and been for a March Oh that it there Shul before March It starts around 2 3 o until Mithy They would land. They were studying, they did the same thing. Well, where do they do that now? Rabbi, I'm asking if they do it over to Pat. The president is a few minutes, I think, before they'd out and look at it, he'll read a Pusick or two. They do a little bit over there. They have some discussions. But it's a rabbi talking to them, honey, and a few of them give some interpretation.
There's a rabbi, but in these days, it was a layman there were discussing the subject matter. They did have a rabbi. You said that your uncle, I believe, gave the drusha many times. They had rabbi. They had a rabbi? Oh, yeah, they had a rabbi all the time. Was there any particular time that he made it a point to give a drusha or what? On the high holidays he would give it. Rabbi would too, but he would give one too. And his was very, I think, exceeding the rabbi. In those days they gave it from the Chumich. They'd read a part of it or hear you.
They would give you the history like it really was what it all meant. What was the extent of your secular education, school, grammar school, what schools? And just Cumberland Hill in, I think, one or two years of Bryan High School in the American Institute of Banking. Did you know you wanted to go into banking? Did you know you wanted to go into banking? No, sir. No, sir. It was by accident. What happened? What happened, I was working at Sanger Brothers, like all the Jews did. And I got fired down there. I didn't have no better sense than to work, and I even worked there on the books on due bills.
They gave you 35 cents supper money, but they didn't pay anything for work. They worked two hours. And I'd walk home, because I was on Carolina Street, and walk back, and I'd spend a nickel for an Alcubo cigar and then I work two hours That was very important And I got to be head office boy there And I worked I had a charge of all the office boys, put out all the mail, all the stationery, all the filings. And I worked with one of the boys, one of them, about three or four of them, about one or two o'clock one morning, getting out the statements.
And there was two rough boys, Elliot and Wendell Henry, I never will forget them. Next morning they saw me and said, we want less work and more pay. I said, don't talk to me, talk to the boss. Said, you go with us. I was scared not to. They were two rough customers. So I went up with them and old man Max Rosenfield I was shown was his chief. I looked up at his class, little fella. What's the matter? I said, the boys want less work and more money. Well, you know, I'm with the boys here. And he fired me and then talked to them and they went back to work.
And I thought I could get a job over at Mittenthal's across the street because they were talking to me about a job. But no job. And I finally, after two or three months, I got a job at Ceres Robot. And I was in the shipping department. I know I tried to get a job and couldn't. And I went out there and put in my application. And no job. It was office, but I wanted. And, uh, let me see your rights. So I started writing. You got a job as a scribe. My job was a scribe. What's a scribe? I couldn't do anything. But see, I went to night school about three or four years after I went to work without anybody knowing it.
I knew more than anybody when I quit. But after I went to work, I found out how little I did know. So I went to school three or four years at night, high school, and even learned to write. and bookkeeping, typing, writing, anything, math. But anyhow, out there, they put me in the shipping department, a scribe. Every twenty minutes they had to have so many packages wrapped to come through. And if they had rakes, a shovel, a change, you'd have to make a tag that's a scribe. And I was working like Trojan and the boss used to come over and help me a little bit.
I figured the honeymoon was over with. And I didn't know anything. And so they told me, well, Christmas business is over if they lay you off. Well, it was a big shot then. I said, I was looking for a job when I found this one. Well, Christmas came and went. They said, get laid off, I got a dollar a week raise. As I said, the bank, I got a car when I was working at Sagner's. Mr. Arthur Cathy, I'll show them. But here in Burgh, one of them was cashier, another was assistant cashier. And I used to kind of, was very friendly with them and took care of some of their gifts they wanted to give their gals they were going with, which they later married.
And so one day in church, Mr. Raymond Camel asked Arthur Cathy if he knew a boy that could handle the ad machine. files and things of that kind. And he told them about me, and he called me, and I went over and talked to him. And they offered me $30 a month. I could not go to work for that because I was making $44. And I analyzed it out that by being able to go home for lunch and not ride in the street car, I could work for $35 a month. Even if the brother worked there, then it's theirs. And so I asked my dad to go by and talk to him, and then I would call him later, and they said they would go for thirty-five, and that's how I come and go to work at Mike.
And by nineteen-I say, nineteen-eighteen, early part. What about-did you have other jobs? Were there other things that you did to help your income? No. You said something also about working at the ballpark. Well of course on Saturday and Sunday we hustled out to ballparks selling ice purple M with mine because I was lucky to even get in And then we had to work an hour and a half two hours after the ballgame picking up pillows cushions they called them and bottles They sold soda water and bottles in those days. Just with the privilege of working on a commission basis, you had to work that one and a half to two, two and a half hours.
for free, which is all right. And I also worked with Aaron Rollick up at Morris Menswear selling hats on Saturday nights that afternoon. What was the work situation there? How did they? How what? What was the work situation at selling hats? Was it commission or did they pay you a salary? Commission. No, they paid me a little salary in the PMs. Well, you sell them wool hats and the color come off on your hands. They had velours on them. Remember them velours they were selling in those days, $25 for a velour hat. And the PM, man, I wanted to put them PMs on. You get 10, 15 cents every time you sold one of those extras.
I made three, four dollars working from about four o'clock to about 10. Now, what was the PM? PM is that extra commission you get when you sell certain items, something you want to get rid of. Don't you know about PM? Like a bonus. Yeah. They have merchandise you want to get rid of, see. The hard merchandise you sell at you get a PM that goes. Very happy now. I bet you don't know. Now, you were talking about your father and what he did. He was a blacksmith. And had he done blacksmithing in Europe and applied the trade here? Yes. Yeah, he learned it over in Europe.
Oh, you're still in synagogue affiliation now. Well, I've been with synagogue all the way through. To Ferith Israel. I joined Sherith Israel, I think it was 33, when my kids were going there, and I didn't Because the first is we had no Sunday school. So after he not gone and of course in those days the membership was very charges were very small And of course we all know what it is today That's how Cov. Jones-Shaz is on, otherwise it never would happen. Was there any contribution as far as building fund or anything like we have today over and above membership? Where? At that time, either at the Ferris or the Board Chair?
Yes, ma'am. I think I gave them $25 on the building they built. They bought a lot on Calderon, Powerwood and Seater Springs. And our people in those days down there were very, very conservative. Uncle. When they'd buy a lot, they were going to pay for it. And after they'd pay for it, they didn't raise enough money, then they'd build a building. Well, we bought this lot over there, I say we, the group did. And I think my contribution was about $20 billion from that. And then they started widening Segar Springs and widening hardwood. They kept cutting off some of our lot there. And then the Jews started going south.
And then they decided not to build there, and it was leased out to Sims Oil companies. It seems the oil company wanted to go out of business, and this was a liability they had to get rid of, right, else they couldn't dissolve the corporation. And they had to lease on the fuel station, so they built the building in the back of it. They bought the grounds and built their own building because they needed that room for the food space. They offered the synagogue, I think, $10,000 in that building to release them from the lease. They wouldn't do it. So, uh, what about the name of D.H.
Boss, B-O-S-S, he was treasurer, as a sense, came to see me. and talked to me about it, and I said, well, they'll have a meeting down there. I'll see what I can do for you. So I went to this meeting and submitted it and they turned it down I said this is a fair deal It a good deal and we ought to do it And you are going to do it. If you don't want to do it with Sims, I'll take the building and $10,000 and take over the lease. I know you won't trust me, so I'll put up government bonds for the full amount of the lease to guarantee the lease.
So if I was going to do that, then they said maybe they ought to do it, and they did it. And that little piece of junk we had over there, I sold it to Anderson Furniture Company for $117,500. It wasn't worth $25,000. But he wanted to come onto the corner, and I dabbled with him, I guess, for two or three or three years, who are close. When was it? That one was there. That was deferred visual, I think. About 10, 12 years ago, I mean. I don't know if that helped us go over there on Royal, more than 12 years. No, I wasn't. Honey, when we were over here, they still had to chill on the grass And then when they built, they built that, like you say, that minion place and the Sunday school rooms, they only built a sanctuary seven, eight years ago or less.
My friend Max Faisal, I was telling him, told me not to sell it. Jews going to get their hand on that money, and it's going to dissipate. But I couldn't turn it down after I got up to 175. I knew it wasn't anywhere near that. Fact is, I bought things. I was president of the Shul. Well, we built on Cranston Edgewood. Max Katz, I was shawing, offered us $3,500 for a lot to build it on. Just had to put a cornerstone on it for him. And Hesse Envelope Company owned that corner there. And they were going to build their building there. They paid $25,000 for that lot.
And I bought it for $3,500. I talked to a person by the name of Win Love, let their souls rest in peace, and two of the finest Christian men I ever met in my life. And I kept calling on them, and they kind of laughed at me a little bit, but I offered them $3,500. I said, I'm not telling you what your lots worth. That's all the money I have. And I said, you're not giving it to me. It's for a synagogue. Whatever it's worth over $3,500, that's what you give them to the Lord. And they went for it. But you're right, too. It was true.
He wasn't doing it for me or nobody. It was the house of the Lord. I built that sitting guy for $25,000. Gainty, I sent guy better than what we've got now. That was in, like, $41,000, right? Or earlier. I couldn't tell you exactly what that show was built. When was I present? I was present then for twelve years. Well, then they turned down a $25,000. Did you say then that they turned down a $25,000 offer? I paid $25,000 for the locks, and they decided not to build on them. And I offered them $3,500 because that's all the money I had. And I got it for 35.
I don't know how much money they got from the state for cutting part of it. And how long have you been a member of the Fair Official then? Ever since I remember. I guess I can't remember that. I guess right after I'd buy a message, whatever I could be. They'll be there always. What are some of your Jewish organization affiliations? My love is Goldmakers. I worked on that with Max I was showing, where I chewed on it. I was in on the rich and nation there. We had meetings and meetings to formulate and that thing long before. We had meetings with the Federation office. We were offered for Mike M Rudy I think if we name it that Max Rudy uh that Michael Rudy owned for ages Told them if he gave us we would not for That would hurt, if we'd raise the funds otherwise.
We had meeting and meeting and meeting. And we worked on it, and we went to a lot of places, and they said, why don't we give you $250? Two victories were worth $5,000. There was a room, $5,000. And we sold it, a lot of them. Where are some of the other organizations? Oh, go ahead, sir. Well, I'd say that home is the most important home belonging. Federation. I moved to Federation for years. I was on the board for a while. And let's see, I think way back I was on budget committee things. I'd say the Federation, of course, belongs to B'nai B'ritha and other organizations.
But as far as work is concerned, I'd say the Federation and the Golden Lake belong to the B'nai B'ritha and that other. That doesn't mean anything. Well, I thought you were talking about Jewish. Well, you know, Jewish and non-Jewish. Well, of course, I've blown a variety of clubs. I've been very active in that since it started in 1936. Still on the board, still on the endowment committee, still treasurer of it. And, uh, let's see. What else, honey? Boy, you know, the Elks, I've been a-I'm a life member of the Elks. I was state treasurer for years and years and years Board of Trustees for years But I trying to wean out Honey I an old man now And of course I belong to Masonic.
And, huh? Shrine. Well, Shrine, National Mason, Scottish Rite Shrine. I'm a, what you call, 32 K. C. C. H., which is a ninth. That's an honorary degree, a ninth commanding court of honor. The only one hiring that is the honorary degree of 33rd. Looks like 32 and a half or four, that says, but, boy, a day's gone by. I was on the City Financial Advisor Board here in 36, and on the Health Board in the city in 36, or 38, or whatever it was. What else was I in, honey? Here. Okay. You weren't active in the Maybred? No, I never was active in the Maybred.
I was active in the Alks and I was active-I'm still a little active in the Scottish Rite, working the 31st degree up there. Active in the-right, I still am. I'm talking about active. Let's see, we're talking about the banking. We need to go back. I'm sorry. When you-how long were you at the bank that you started at? Was it the Commerce Bank? Which- Central State. Central State. How long were you- I was there about two, three years. I went there to State Bank and Trust Company. I was there for about five years. Then I went to the Merkin Field. It was 43 years ago. What did you do when you started with the mercantile?
I went as assistant cashier. I was a big shot in a little bank. I was a big fish in a little, I was a big fish in a little pond. Then I got to be a little fish in a big pond How long have you been one of the vice presidents sir for years I executive vice president well I been I guess 30 years vice president maybe 35 years I think executive vice president about eight or ten years. What about your civic and cultural affiliations? I worked on United Fund or hospital drives. I didn't pay no attention. I worked on it practically on every one of them.
Huh? Oh, you had Boy Scouts way back then. Man, I used to go and sell that Boy Scout business like nobody means. Two dollars a month or three dollars a month where I sold it. That's $36 or $48, $2, $3, $4 a month. Oh, Bullock's Council, United Fund, every hospital drive over the year. I haven't been too active in the last five, six years. See, I was operating dog in 1966, the second time. She was operating males from 46 and 66. Now, over the years, did any of your family live with you? Well, when you were a child, did any of the, your parents' family, you know, your aunts or uncles or anybody, did they live with you?
I don't think so. I don't think so. Oh, some of the kids came over here. They lived with us. Like the Skyward boys, they came from Europe. I think one of them there stayed over the house. There were two of them, time to time. I think Archie and Jake, I think. Do you know how any of the family originally came to Dallas? Like you said, your mother's sister. Sister brought her. Your aunt was here. Do you know what brought her to Dallas? I guess my aunt did. They all wanted to come over here. You know what I mean. Yeah, but I mean when they came to Dallas, like when your aunt came to Dallas, was there any particular reason that she came to Dallas?
I can't answer that. No? You never heard of her talk? You know when she came here, I don't know why she married, honey. I don't know why she married here. Over there. See, she was related, Uncle Bob Shum was related to Mrs. Lynn, I was shown. This year the mayor of Lynn. And they were here, and I think one family brought another one. Were they linesmen, do you think? They were kinfolk. They were all cousins. They were kinfolk. They were kinfolk. Brotherly-they were brother-in-law. My Uncle Bob would show them. He was a brother to Mrs. Lynn, let her so rest in peace. He was I.M.
Lynn. Now, did you have any relatives that lived with your immediate family over the years, like when your parents brought the relatives that they lived with them, or did you have anybody with them, or any of your parents, you know, older generation, uncles, aunts, and your own family structure? Yeah, we really call them that. Just like I say, the kids came over like these nephews. They-they still- Well, it was temporary, sure. What are some of the things you remember about the Jewish community when you were a child or, you know, when you were growing? Well, that's hard to just say. We had a hell of a good Jewish community, I'll tell you that here, in the days gone by.
We had our T-double-O club, which was supposed to be twenty-one only, and Hebrew Social Nighting Club. And, I mean, the Jews of Dallas and Fort Worth worked together, you know. We'd go over there to the Hebrew Institute over there. They had dances and things of that kind. The Jewish community was pretty close. Were there any temple members in these clubs? The T-double-O? I don't think so. I don't recall any temple members of that. Probably now. Hmm? Probably now. I don't know about now. I mean I talking about 50 years ago Were there any Sheriff Israel people or the Ferath Israel people in the Columbia Club when it was organized I never was going to the Columbia Club.
I don't now. I doubt it. The Columbia Club, when I knew it, they were on South Irving Street. And there was only the elite of the German Jews. And I say elite, they thought they were elite, didn't they? And they were better than anybody, especially the German Jews. And it was nothing but a gambling joint, all it was. And they gambled heavily over there. over there. Then they went out on Garland Road. There was nothing but about 90% gambling and about 10% social for that group. I was, huh? You never belong? No, I said I never did and don't now. And I was offered free membership.
We went up there because I understand his door was open, so we walked up to North Dallas. That's where we were down on Caroline Street. We walked up there and to see if the guy was really open, his partner. And I'm telling you, the town looked dead. In those days you had Sanger's clothes, Harris's clothes, Tych's clothes, Dreyfus clothes, and all the small merchants were all clothes. I'm telling you, in Rosh Hashanah, I had Yom Kippur. I never have been in a town that I can recall on Yom Kippur. But on that Rosh Hashanah, it looked really like Sunday, with all the stores closed. And they used to observe very carefully and very religiously the high holidays, Russia and Yen Kippur.
But nowadays you can't tell the difference. Would you remember about what years that was? Mm-hmm. Up until when? I couldn't recall it. Time doesn't mean a thing to me, unfortunately. It really doesn If I got something specific yes I can recall But otherwise no I want you to have one. Can you recall, honey? Willie and I, Willie Saltis and I went up there. No, I don't know that. Were you boys then? Do you remember? No, I've grown. Son of Saltis, he was already in business. No, he was at Mr. Saltz's minute with Sam Goldberg, I was shown. And Sam Goldberg was not a believer then.
And he was going to the cult after ring and, you know, people that didn't believe in the high holidays and didn't believe in religion. I don't know about that until later years that they ever went to the show, you know what I mean. I mean, good boy, but they didn't believe. We've got others in this town that didn't believe then and don't believe today. Now, I'd say, I couldn't hardly say what it was. I'd say it was about 35 years ago. You might, just a guess. Oh, listen, you got, especially, we call it deep elements, up there, east elements. Man, all the stores were Jewish.
All of them were. There were a lot of other stores downtown besides the number ones, Neva Marcus, I didn't even mention before. They were closed. Were they closed two days on Rosh Hashanah, or did you hear them? I doubt it. I doubt. I think they were closed one day. They were not orthodox. They were always farmed. Now, on Deep Elm, on East Elm. That's East Elm. They call it Deep Elm. Alright. In the 30s, or late 30s and early 40s, I believe most of it was pawn shops. Did it start out that way, or what was the developing of that area? I don't know. It was even in the 20s I can remember up there very well.
Because I remember when I was at the State Bank and Trust in those days, we were right above Irby Street, next to the right past post office. And I would go up there and every store was Jewish And they had dry goods stores And one of the big names up there then it was Carl and Winnaman I mean, they were the elite. And they had the big homes in South Dallas. And then the Michelsons, let their soul rest in peace. They were big names. The families first lived in the back of the stores up there. And, of course, as they made money, they, of course, went to South Dallas and out there, like on Mary Street and other places.
But our Jewish people up there, they worked and the families worked, and then they come out of it. But it was solid Jewish all the way. They had pawn shops, had dry goods stores. Clark Winner was wholesale guns and ammunition and things of that kind. Well, Distaback, I'm glad you mentioned that. Sam Distaback was a big name that was on the corner of, well, where the expressway is now in Elm. Sam Distaback furnished all the uniforms for policemen, I think, mail carriers, firemen, and all that. he was a man, I think he manufactured a uniform, if I'm not mistaken. Because my friend, Jay Pasternak, let his soul rest in peace.
I remember when he left this tobacco, and I know he came in and talked to me down at the bank, and he went in business on his own, and that's what you got, that was a cap and uniform. Today, that was Jay Pasternak that started that. And he went into manufacturing these caps and other things, and he started this business. but he was with this tobacco before he was a good in those days I have people that came down here regardless of what they were what their vocation was they were if you know what that is they were talented they were not they were masters whether it was cut making trim or whether it was manufacturing of any kind or anything at all.
They knew their business. Just like this old man, Bach, let his soul rest in peace, that Harry Bach's father, He came here, of course, couldn't, he was able to talk English hardly, but he knew the diamond men. He was one of the best diamond men in this town that had in many years. Yeah, since the war, sure, since the war, but it's the same type that I'm talking about. That came over here, they were qualified. They learned their art or whatever their profession was, like it should have been learned. his apprentices on up until they got to be masters of their art. And they were hard workers.
And he, with a language problem that he encountered, he still was successful in buying and selling diamonds. And he was an alerted man. We always thought these Jews that came here were ignorant. They were not ignorant. They just did not know the language. but they were brilliant. They were learned. They knew the Chumash backwards. And you get all your fruit and all your knowledge from the Chumash. It's all in there, and they knew it. And they were very talented in Hebrew and in learning. And it was just a barrier of that language. I don't think they read them. No, but a lot of people thought they were.
And it was all said, oh, they thought they were just a bunch of galums, so to speak, but they were not. They were, no, but honey, I'm telling you, that was the idea of a lot of people thinking. But you saw so many of them there that people questioned in their own minds, were they really qualified, or you know what I mean? But every one of them knew their business, and they all did pretty well. And they were not lazy. They were not lazy. And, I mean, whatever they prefer. You take even the Donskis, which I remember very well. Old man Donski, I'll be shown.
When I first knew him, he had an ice wagon. And he was also a peddler. He raised those kids and he raised them right And Saul and Levine same way And they were good people They had a heart That a better way to put it They had a heart, a good heart. And it was Mike Levine, I was showing them, who started the Alice Hebrew Greenland Association. It was Mike Levine, I was showing them, and a few others. They started the old folks' home on South Boulevard, I was showing them. And they worked at it. It was not just a lot of conversation. They worked at it, and they provided for those people, and adequately, too, with whatever meager facilities were available.
What were some of the stores, the different types of stores? You mentioned dry goods and guns. Well, they were pawnbrokers, which was jewelry. They were sold jewelry. They also had men's furnishings in there and shoes and things like that. It was kind of a miniature dry goods store without the dry goods, peace goods. I don't remember many of them having peace goods. and one of the oldest names way back yonder was like E.M. Cairn, let his soul rest to peace. He was a good man. I mean, and observed. And right next door to him on Elm Street, I'm going back, I guess, almost 60 years ago, Bellwall Brothers let their soul rest to peace.
And they were good Jews. And I mean, they had a nice business about 60 years ago down there. I know we used to go down to buy a lot of things ourselves from them. We have a lot of good Jews in this town. It's a shame that Sanger Brothers was not the big name in Dallas today like it was, I'd say, 50 years ago or better. They were good people. The Sanger brothers, the Ridgeman Sanger brothers. And none of them seemed to have any children They were qualified They were raised with a silver spoon so to speak I remember Eli Usanger let his soul rest in peace The son of Alec Sanger let his soul rest in peace Mr.
Alec, I knew him. He was a little, sharp, great-headed fellow when I knew him. And he wrote that story. He and his fellow W. O'Connor let his soul rest in peace was his credit man. And these Jews were all scattered in these small towns. And he gave these Jews credit and helped them. And they all were successful, I say, all, everyone I knew that come to my attention. But Sanger's had a retail store and a wholesale store 55 years ago here in Dallas. And they did business. But there was nobody to take hold and go from there. Every Jew in Dallas worked down there, too, one time or another.
And go right down the line. There's so many of them that I recall vividly. Well, everybody worked down there. And nobody thought about going to work anywhere else but sign or book. Was that because, why was that the situation? Well, it was because they had a big store and they hired people and it looked like they must have favored Jews. I believe they did because they all worked down there and they all had big jobs. And I can't recall a lot of them right now, but in the wholesale apartment, I remember very well, my friend Alexander Goldsmith, so rest in peace, he was a bookkeeper there who later on went into all business was very successful.
And Ruby Tablosky, I was shown, both of them were bookkeepers there at Sangher Brothers in the wholesale department. And because he later went with Willard Head Company. And to see Seymour Myers, I was shown, was one of the secretary there. And I mean, we... How about that, Rosenbaum? Well, Abe Rodenthal was in the retail. He was kind of the bookkeeper there And then Jaime Tabla Hyman Wotelski was I was shown was there I knew Hyman when he was on the books, and his wife was working as a, like a bookkeeper on the, on the typewriter machine, bookkeeping machine, or whatever you want to call it in those days.
And he was on a hard disk and she was on the load. They later got married. Abe Billing, I was shown, he was a fair-headed boy there under Mr. Max Rodenfield, I was shown. He was a credit manager. And, let's see, I think Sam Norfolk, I was shown, worked in the men's clothing. And, oh, it goes on, I can't call them all. And somebody named Michaelston was in the men's furniture down there. I mean, head of the department. I'm not talking about just working there. Did they have problems with non-Jewish businesses hiring Jewish people? The only one that I can recall, and I don't know if it was then or later on, was W.A.
Greening Company, that I recall. Of course, they always said, and I guess it's true today, that the telephone company doesn't hire Jews. I don't know if any Jew works the telephone company. I don't know if it's written wrong with them or what it is, but it's been rumored. I'm sure there's others, honey, that have the same thing. And I think if two people or three people or four people were looking for a job and all were qualified, the Jew would not get it. But they're saying prejudice against the Catholics. Don't think the Jews are just by themselves. I had a friend of mine who was in the war, my friend J.B.
Collins. He came to me. He was looking for a job, and I knew him when he was with Standard Brands. And the fact is, I tried to get him a job here with Cohen Candy Company. I wished he'd gone. I wished they'd hired him. The big candy companies in Dallas, you've got to have manpower. You can have all the grease you want. It won't hurt you. But you've got to have knowledge. You've got to be willing to work. And you've got to have the know-how. There's a science in business. And give me a man that got it on the ball and knows what he's doing.
with limited capital, he'd be more successful than a man with capital. He hadn't got the know-how. In fact, he looked at a statement today. He was just getting put on my desk. I showed it to Mr. Wolf there, my pal right next door to me. This company, about five or six years ago, I had hell in my committee because it needed a half a million dollars. And the statement didn't warrant it. I believed in it. And Frank and I talked about it. And we went in committee and we had a lot of discussion. We finally worked it out on a certain basis. The year closed, June the 30th this year, got a complete audit statement, a good one, by CPA.
They made $500 and some odd thousand dollars. About $279,000 after taxes. But the man is honest. Integrity is the most important thing there is. If a person doesn't have integrity, I don't want no part of him. He can be worth a million or two million or five. I'd rather leave him alone because I know I cannot deal with him in my own heart and believe what he tells me. I just can't do it. And when a guy is a thief, even though he's made the grade, so to speak, it'll eventually show up. And I know one certain party let his shoulder at the piece is gone now.
And he's ready to let the boys have it. Buying a lot of goods and then going broke. You know, that was an old Spanish custom with some of our good people. Well he come to war on and held merchandise for scarier men and he made a ton But he later on went broke because he did not have it You didn have a qualification for success and they all get hot tonsils and think they bigger than the Lord themselves and first thing you know, they get extended and then have a miscarriage. That's all there is to it. It's very simple. I'd say that our people I'd say that 75% of them you can go along with but when you find a bad one brother he stands out like a war on your nose You mentioned Michael Veen as being one of the founders of the old folks on the side.
Yeah, I know. I said, first I said, that was he re-loined. I'm sorry, he was freelance. Yeah, he's the one who started, he hustled on the street for three dollars, three dollars, member, a member. And then Mike Levine and I forget who, Paulikoff of Shom, and a lot of the good women, they put this Shom show together, and then a lot of our elderly people needed a place, and they had them in there. And then they had them even where the garage And that's when the Jewish people woke up around here knowing that they needed a place because God forbid if that thing wasn't caught on fire it would just like burn kindling wood.
And we... That's the old Huberton home? Yes. But then they also had a garage there like it. Yeah, I know. I understand. And it was dangerous. And, of course, when we built the home, all the residents there went into the new home. That's the greatest thing that ever happened to Dallas, I'll tell you that. I'd like to ask you about the year. Sure. The year when they started with the El of Shalom. How did it come about? You said they started the Shul first. Well, a group of them got together to start a Shul. I don't recall that too vividly because I wasn't one of them.
But I was very much at that time very visible all the way And I still am for that concern I go to Sheth Israel because it convenient more convenient But my heart and soul is with Tephereth Israel. That's where I was bar mitzvah, and that's where my father of Hashem died on Yom Kippur before the army. My father did not work on the Sabbath. Not only on the Sabbath or Yom Kippur, but with Pesach or Chavoyce or any holiday, he did not work. We've always kept coaching. And we still do in this home. Would you remember about the founding of Hebrew Fee Loan Association, some of the things that you mentioned?
No, I just mentioned the type of people we had, and that they worked for the best interest of the people, the Jewish people especially. And just like in the early days, some 50, 60 years ago, the poor Jew came to Dallas, Papa would show them, and maybe you to Maryland would show them. They go up and down the street, Oath Clibon, and 50 cents a quarter. Get the man five or 10 or 15. Huh? Oath Clibon. Oath Clibon, okay. Appreciate it. My wife is very learned and Jewish. And she is. And they get the man five, 10, 15 dollars. Then he go get by apples or oranges.
Good. And he goes, that's where he got started. A lot of them got started that way. They were not lazy. They worked. They just wanted an opportunity. Then they helped them actually start in business that way. It wasn't just a matter of putting them up for a day or a night or whatever it was. They started in business. Of course, a lot of the Jews that came over here in the early days, we had a lot of people We had no quarters way back down there. Anybody could get a ticket, could come over. Somebody would send them a ticket And when they got here naturally they had some kinfolks or something They might have put them up I remember when Rabbi, or Kanner Ryback came over here, let him say, rest in peace.
I know he came to our house and we took him over to Oakens when they lived out on Colonial Way. He stayed out there the first night he was in town. I know we drove him out there. And the Jews stuck pretty well together. And when I said 75% of the Jews are good, you might even rate that up to about 85 to 90%. Of course, when you find one of them, you know, you look, you run across two or three of them. And the other days, we had a lot of them around here that thought nothing to take bankruptcy or doing other things. We had some people who could plan these houses like nobody's business.
I don't want to mention their names. They were professionals at it. Maybe 95% of the Jews were good. I mean, they were really responsible people. And maybe 5% of them you'd have to watch pretty closely, if that many. because we had people here capable of doing anything. And I know some of them that did boast in a way, too. We had them. I can go back and pick out a lot of them. We had a lot of promoters here, too, in days gone by. We still got them, but they play the big league now. Do you think there were more today than there were then, or do you think there were more then?
No, I don't think, I think it's a different type. They're polished today. They're polished. Very polished. And they're capable of doing things. They're educated. Well, they're educated in their profession, so to speak. In the days gone, I'm talking about, we had boys that would burn, would burn down a house for insurance, go bankrupt, get ready for it. And when it went bankrupt, all of it didn't go in bankruptcy, you know what I mean? They held out a little bit. I don't know if it'd be that. I'd say that in overall, the Jews in my opinion, Maybe because I know more of them than I do the others.
Although I've done business with them, I guess I've got more Gentile customers than I have Jews. They're more loyal. You've got a good Gentile, they're pretty loyal. I guess when I started with him not too long ago, about 10, 12 years ago, he was broke and loaned him $1,000. dollars. Today he's worth about three quarters of a million and he's loyal as day follows night. And our Jews are loyal too. A lot of them. But there's less loyal ones than there are in the Gentile group. I got one that sat right on that couch with me on analyzing a certain of his business. And we talked about it for two, three years until it was finally sold for four and a half million dollars and the money went right into our bank.
Ain't nothing about it, you know what I mean. And one time Mr. Tartan, I was showing him, knew that his wife was out playing cards over at certain bankers' home. He said, My, you want to watch them? And he knew them and they went over there all the time. They were good friends, but he wouldn't do no business at that other place. But I'd say that Arab people, they're more polished than the crooks. We don't have as many. I'd say on the overall, the Jewish people have more integrity, more loyalty than even the Goymi with all of that. Because our Jewish people know what it is, the bitterness of this life.
When they've been living in a world of milk and honey over here, they don't know what it means. And it's just people that came over here from Russia or Poland or Austria or Germany or any other place, they know what's going on. They've seen these things going on. They're very much perturbed today. They can see a lot of this going in the same route that went before And the scapegoat is going to be the Jew We not liked I tell you that We're indulged. Don't ever think you're liked because you're not. I'm talking about hog, as you go in and say, hog round, see. that unfortunately we're indulged and they'll use you where they can.
And even the German Jew looked down on the Polish and the Russian Jew and the Austrian Jew. They wouldn't even have nothing to do with them. But after the war, the Second World War, I put it, a lot of our people were in business. I'm talking about the Russian Jew or the common herd like myself. They were in business, and they were successful at it. And they're the ones that kind of led the parade, and the others didn't do so well, apparently. And, I mean, on the masses. And then they started having to do business with these Jews that they looked down upon previously. And I know a certain party wouldn't have nothing to do with them at all, but after he went to Venice, he started calling.
And they come up there. I think they took them out and tried and found them. I know they called over here. And who was his name? Was he related? He said he was in his presence. Yeah. I don't know. It wasn't said, but anyhow, they took my- Sprout. Huh? Sprout, wasn't it Sprout? I can't answer anything. But I got a call one night, and they knocked on our apartment, and they were going over to Fort Worth, and she turned over her diamond ring and sucked her fat in the hole that night. I was, you see, I have a bit. In the Mr. Clark department. Yeah, but I was.
That's before I hadn't even known. He was? 42 years. I was in the 40s 30s I guess this was Boy they could be treacherous you know what I mean Because it's just-it's gangsterism, it's mob-ism, or whatever you want to call it. And they're going to save the world, you know what I mean? White supremacy. What did Martin say? The white, uh, Christian-how do you put it? Christian? Martin was talking not about them, but about white supremacy or something. I don't know. But-and I don't think they're-even the whites, uh, they-as I recall back, I was talking before about Catholics, and I don't know, got thrown off.
This fellow was the standard brand, J.B. Collins, and he had a job. He told me, he said, well, I think I got one now. Went back up there to see about it. What's your religion? Catholics. I killed it. So I didn't have a friend that was going in there and business reworked motors on airplanes in Galveston. And I can't call his name right now, but we still exchange Christmas cards. And I said, don't you need a good man? He said, yes, I do. I told him who he was, and I said, by the way, I want you to know he's a Catholic. I know it don't mean anything to you.
And I don't mean anything to me. And he gave him the job. So, I mean, there's a lot of people like Jews, work for Jews. You go into a Jewish organization run by Jews, thank God we've got a few of them, and you've got a bunch of Jews in there. You walk in there, but by the same token, you go into a Catholic organization like Cy Lynch, and others where there's Catholics, you'll see that there are 80% Catholics too in there. Do you know that? They stick like that, boy, and Catholics do. And I know I went to a real street for my friend across the street, let him so rest in peace, and I only knew the thing was full and I only knew about a half a dozen people and I been here all my life It those Catholics you know what I mean From the Knights of Columbus Port of Greece Now, you know where there's Italians, it's the same thing.
You've got an Italian group or a Greek group. You'll see them, it's all that-a-way. But we're very fortunate But we have fine business, like sweet neckwear manufacturers calling off hand. Sterling? Who? Sterling? Zales? Yeah, Sterling or Zales and Dallas handbag. And four of Dallas-four of Biologics sold out. You'd go out there and you had them pretty well loaded, too. You had that topless boy out there and others, and Brother Gus let him so rest in peace there, and Harry Burr. I mean, not because they were Jews exactly, but they were going to hire somebody, So they got kinfolks or other people that you go down even to the mart down here, Prowl Mart.
You go down there and you see our people down there, predominantly Jews. It's just one of those things. Not because they're Jews that they hire, but they need people. and they certainly wasn't against them because they were Jews. Oh, we got a lot of good Jews in this town, and we've had them here for over 50, 60 years, way back down there. There's so many of them here. I just wish I could recall all of them. I remember the Liebmans, good people, fine people. You take-we had a very fine grocery ad on South Iker Street called Long Hill Grocery. That was the wolf. And one of the wolf girls married Abe Goldberg, I would show them.
What was that Wolf's boss name that came over here? Arthur. Arthur I would show him. He was getting the history of Dallas up. He had pictures and all that other thing. Why would that noise, though? I'm certain that his wife might have it. But what I'm trying to say, though, is just simply this, that we have had some wonderful Jews in days gone by, and we've got some wonderful Jews today. And a lot of them are active in a small way. We don't find many too active out here at SMU or University of Texas or A&M. But they're active in their own way. The fact is a lot of people don't want the Jews in there.
You try to get into something and see how far you get. You know, you're not-you can't go to Dallas Country Club. You can't go to Brook Hollow. You can't go to Northwood. And for a while, you had a quota on them at Lakewood. And the DAC, you couldn't get in at all at one time until they looked like it was going to crash. I said the G-Cup back in there, whenever, whoever wanted to get in there. But the economic question brings up a lot of questions. You can't get in a petroleum club. There's a lot of places you can't get it if you wanted to.
What about housing? Well, you mean housing. Yeah, restricted neighborhoods, like Highland Park. I believe Highland Park used to be restricted. Greenway Park used to be. Greenway Park used to be, and I understand it, but they were more like a clique, if I understood I didn't know too much about it, just hearsay, that had kind of association out there. And if anybody wanted to sell I think they could sell but had an unwritten law that the association had approved for the purchaser Oh they had more than one out there Who Yeah, they had a few of them. Not too many, though. Well, when did she build his house out there?
Huh? Spencer lived out there. Who? Spencer, Bernie Amos. Yeah, and Silver. That Morton's not one of mine. Oh, that ain't Morton, isn't he? Isn't he back there? That's about the size of it, honey. Are there areas today that are restricted to Jews as far as living is concerned that, you know, are there areas of fields that will not take Jews? What do you mean? Like you mentioned the quotas as far as some of the country clubs are concerned, or DAC. I know schools have had quotas on them, not so much here in Dallas. Yeah, I don't know, but I understand that even at the medical school, and this takes all these Jews, they don't say it, honey.
They're not saying it there, but that's what it is. They already got eight Jews in there, six or seven or five. How many you want in there? Why should you restrict them? What about the Jewish Federation as we know it today? Do you remember some of the earliest beginnings? Not too much. I mean, I was on the board at one time, and I was on the budget committee, but that's quite a few years ago. And of course, I was on there when I was president of the Golden Acres, because automatically you're on there. But we've always had a pretty fair operation over there at the Federation, I think.
And Jack Cavett really runs it. See here the history of all these things whether it the Federation whether it Golden Acres whether it the Variety Club or D or whatever it is or the Shrine or the Scottish Rite who runs it The Secretary I go in as President X. I gotta rely upon my Secretary. He knows I'm only gonna be there a year or two. And you turn, you know what I mean. And he wraps you under his finger. He knows how to manipulate you. And it's the secretary who really runs it. And I heard something just recently. And on the shrine, you know. But it all depends how strong a man gets in there.
You want to keep peace. And you're in there, and you're in with the group. I know myself, I used to be with a group of the Elks, and days gone by. We had a clique, about eight or ten of us. And then we'd come up, our eight or ten running, whatever problem it came up. And the secretary was there with you, and that's about the size of it, or even at Golden Acres. Herb Shored does 99 percent of it. Of course, when I was passionate about it, a lot of things that I didn't, a lot of people didn't appreciate, as far as I'm sure, let them all in.
You know what I mean? My friend Ben Lewis said to you, Myra, you can't do that in the bylaws. He said, it's up to you you let them all in. And he's right, because I don't believe in that red tape business, and I don't believe in a lot of things of that kind. Just like we had one that finally was turned down one time. Told everybody, I said, what are you representing for? Why don't you just take them on in? I'd locate it. And now it's already gone before the committee. They turned it down. We can't already do it now. But why represent it? Take them on in.
Tell them I told you to. They didn't fire me. You know what I mean. I believe in helping people. And I don go on any red tape and all that kind of monkey business or anything some technicality you know what I mean that they hadn been here long enough or this or that or something else The party needs it So, you're going to keep the poor soul out on account of a technicality or something? I don't believe in that, of course. You can't do like I'd like to do because after it's all done, you do have an institution. I forget just exactly what the budget is, but it runs in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
And you've got to have right kind of operations, sound, business operations, but still you're doing business with people. What are you going to do with them? I'd like to see everybody that needs it in there. And if we can't, if they can't pay for it, then the Federation pays for it. And I think we've done a pretty good job up until now. And I know we need money now, and we need it bad because of our new addition. But we'll get it. We'll get it. It's going to take some legwork. If Max Offershal was here, we wouldn't have had a bit of trouble. What about when you were a child?
How did they go about raising money? What was the procedure? How was it established? I can't remember. Do you remember anybody collecting for anything, you know, when they put people in business or where a poor person came in? Oh, honey, each community-the Jews were nested down here in North Dallas like a nest. Every house was a Jew. Anyway, it goes old climbing. We didn't have the Federation, I don't think, in those days. I don't know when the Federation was born. But it was born many years ago, and we had a friend there, Newman Goldstein Loan Fund. He had that, let his soul rest in peace.
How about the Hebrew-free loan, wasn't that term? Well, that was later on. And they're still operating, that is Hebrew-free loan. But we've had a federation way back down there, and I was not active in the federation as I was out on solicitation. I'd go back on solicitation. Fifty years ago, forty-five years ago, I know I used to go to see Max Glazer out of the show, but it wasn't a while. And he asked me for $500, he signed up for $500. He couldn't pay it, you know what I mean, he'd give. But finally, the good Lord blessed him. Not only he paid up, but they gave, he gave with an open hand.
He didn't care about money, Max didn't. he was one of the smartest and one of the soundest businessmen I've met many days and he quit school in the second grade couldn't hardly write his name he couldn't write anything you couldn't read it but he had an end on him second to none and he was not liked he was loved he was absolutely loved by everybody that knew We were with them, Fanny and I, and the kids, and Lottie. In 52, we went to L.A. Oh, I haven't seen her at that, huh? Yes, it does, too, and went to Vegas and Frisco, and we called all liquor-free people up there.
And, man, it was open sesame. I'm talking about big boys. I say big boys, they had big businesses. You don't card a person because you've got money. I card them when they've been successful businessmen and they've been with it. And the man out in Frisco, he was another Julius Sheps, I've shown. He was head of the fire department and some firemen were talking to him on the sidewalks. The second time went around and, let me get through the guy on the phone. Well, we all make mistakes. You know what I mean. One of those things. I never will forget that if I'd ever be a hundred.
And take care of that. His son was too big to see us the first time went around there. The second time went around there, he was still too busy. Going upstairs in my office, I'll be up there in a little bit. And the girl at the switchboard said, Mr. So-and-so's out on the sidewalk, called Matt Fireman So we went out there Oh how far Give me a minute Let me care of this And then he took care of that And he went to his office down downstairs and he told us to come in and sit down and listen until you learn something That guy was so busy he had plenty of time then.
But these youngsters that were raised with a silver spoon in their mouth, Went out like the old seasoned apple. And we went across the street and saw an Italian boy over there, and he apologized because his father was in Italy and he sure ain't, and that he wasn't there to see Max. And he was tied up for a minute, but he cut loose from that and said, we just came by to pay our respects. And he said, now come on in and sit down in private office there with him and we visit with him a little while. What can I do for you? What shows would you like to see?
Don't you need a car while you're here? What kind of liquor do you want? We don't want a thing. We just come and pay my respects. We got to the hotel, there was liquor there. Italian boy, the Jewish boy wasn't that away. And we'll never forget that one. And we'll have to see that-what's that actress's name again? Anne Baxter. Anne Baxter. Anne Baxter. Anne Baxter. Well, our father was head of Four Roses out there, honey. And we walked in there, and the secretary, Max, liked his head like that. And I see Mr. Baxter, you know, so humble. And she went in and said, come on, here comes Baxter out there.
Very handsome gentleman. Max, come on in here. How are you? You know what I mean? Like a lost-own brother. And we met another guy out there by the name of Glaser. And he called his secretary, who was his right-hand man. He said, come on in. I want you to meet a man who's doing the greatest job in liquor business in the country. And his wife called while we were there, and he said, I got 10 folks here. Max said, hold the phone just a minute. So I on the blood test before we claim relationship He was clever He was the most clever person I ever seen He had a little head full of wheels and they were moving all the time He sat here one night, talking to me what he said to his men, and I'm sorry that I didn't tape it like you're doing tonight.
Because it was the greatest story I ever heard. The next day he was over here, and Martin came through. I said, Max, tell him what you told me last night, not before. Well, he told it, but he didn't have that enthusiasm like when he was telling me about it. But he had a head, and he had, he never went along with any of the people working for him any money. They were in trouble, they needed money, he gave it to them. He didn't want to be obligated to him. And when the war came on, and he was small then, any man that went in the Army, whatever his salary was, he still got it, less whatever the Army was paying him.
I'm going to talk about after he's rich. like when Harry Rowling went broke. And he later on went back and paid everybody a hundred cents on the dollar. You say, well, I mean, with many success, and he had the money. No. He paid when he didn't have it. Like one guy came to me, and he came to me, he said, Mayor, when I went broke, I owed Mr. Boo $300. I wish you'd loan $300. I'll sign the note, and I'll make the payments $25 a month. That's before it. You got to be the biologic that it was. We got a lot of good people. Thank God for it, I'll tell you that.
Now, you mentioned When you were young, there was a sodic. Mm-hmm. Right by Bernstein I was shown. Yes. To me, he was an absolute sodic. He as I tried to explain to you our house faced on Caroline and Cedar Springs And you go down to Cedar Springs there was a house right behind us and then on the next corner a short block, is where the rabbi lived. And then he had a back porch there. And our house had a porch, so we could see off our porch both houses. And he was out on the back porch with Leslie Tay and with his yarmulke and everything, learning all the time.
And as I said, when the kids were sick, Papa Abishom would go over there, up Shreklin-Nurray. You ever hear that? and when they got when Popeye Bisham got back the kid was alright say what you want I saw it I believe it and that's all there is to it he was he was genuine in my books I could care care less I think he probably made a hundred dollars a month by all he ever made you know what it wasn't money and the rabbis and days gone by honey it wasn't that they had They have a three or four bedroom air conditioned house and a couple of automobiles and an XYZ.
That's what we had way back younger. We had those type of rabbis here, I believe. Well, honey, that was a big salary. A man had to eat, but I mean, even after that, there was some of them that were making money at that time. much in excess of that. He couldn't save no money to $100 a month no matter how cheap things were. But he was a good man. I'll guarantee you that. And I say he was a type. I really believed it then and I believe it today. How did the congregation feel about him? Do you remember? Well, they, In those days, honey, they went to show, not for an unic Shabbat or anything like that, they went there to daven and pray, and that's all there was.
And when they gave you a speech, they gave it to the Khomish. I think I told you too, my Uncle Barber, Sean, even would give a dressy on Young Kipper, and I can just see him rolling on that little podium they had there, and he was giving you the law. The law of the reading of the week. They didn't read two-thirds or one-third or 20% of it or 25% or half of it all the way through. It was done like it ought to be done. And the shore is not built today like according to the law. You're supposed to be the bendy in the middle.
Gettyshokam was that one. Gettyshokam was, yes. And so was Tefereth Israel, honey. But they got fancier as times went on. Tefereth didn't have a bendy in the front, no? They sure did. Where? On the West. On Highland Street. Oh, huh. And then they got, they got, well, they'd take it different. Now, I was president of the show for 10 or 15 years. Well, we built it on Grand Edgewood. And I liked to have a little argument with them. Max Katz I was showing because there wasn't been any of that tension between the men and the women. Uncle Ben I was showing told me for peace you can overlook it.
So I said, huh? He would fight for it. Yeah, he would fight for it. But when you start getting away from it, you know what I mean? It's like they tell me these kids are going to keep up the day. They're learning Hebrew. They're learning what the law is. And they're learning like it ought to be. And I think they're going into the homes from which they came, teaching the folks what to do. Because they want to do so-and-so. It's the greatest thing ever happened to Dallas. Well he was honey but he was a little radical though too We could do that teaching and all that other we could get away from the radicalism Was the community split, or what were the spiritual Jewish community's attitudes towards the temple?
There was no attitude. That was just a temple. That was the reform. There was no attitude at all. Everybody believed like they would want to believe. There was no feeling at all on the subject matter. And Sheriff Israel was orthodox. It was on Park Avenue. The women sat upstairs. Did you know that? Well, was that all the time, or was that only on the high-level of us? I couldn't tell you, because I didn't go to the Cherith Israel. Whether it was all the time or not, I think I did go on Friday night some, and I think they set together like on Friday night, if I can remember correctly.
But, uh, no way back, I never did go to Cherith Israel, so to speak. As I said before, I joined Chariot Israel because Chariot Israel had no Sunday school. And my kids were going, so I thought I ought to join to help support an institution that was serving me. And it was a small dues at that time. I forget what it was, $36 or $48 a year, which was a whole lot of money for it. I was concerned at that time. But-and after the kids graduated from the Sunday school, you still remember it, and you used so much money, so you keep on and on.
Now they call it to the morning. That's fair enough. But now I understand the temple people did not really have too much to do with the Shareth Israel and the- Well, I don't think it was Shareth Israel or temple. I think it was just the Reform of the Dice of Yehudah, didn't care about have much to do with the Orthodox or the Russian Jews or the Polish Jews or the Austrian Jews or whatever, or Hungarian or whatever it was But I don think Well the Reforms were Gary No they weren Most of the foreign were Germans See, as I came up, though, after I kind of got in the Venice world, they all looked alike to me.
I never did know the difference between one another. I didn't even know what a lip lock was. After I got married, they kept on my litvah. I said, what is a litvah? That's part of the country you came from. I didn't know the difference, and I didn't care. But I did business with a lot of Reformed Jews. And I never thought anything about Reformed or Conservative or Orthodox. I mean, you go to yours, I go to mine, and that's all there is to it. Maybe they didn't socialize. What, dear? Maybe they didn't socialize. Didn't what? Did not socialize. Oh, socialize. That's how I asked. One of the best friends I ever had was old man, Dribben, I would show him.
And he was absolutely reformed. And he wanted to buy a bank for me one time. And I was really young, and I didn't want him to put that money on my nose, because I didn't want to get involved in something that cost him some money. And he wanted to give me his membership in the Colombian club, and I didn't take it, didn't want it. I couldn't afford to go out there. there was nothing but a poker playing thing at that time. It's beautiful out here now. And I mean, you got golf course, and you got other facilities, swimming pool and things like that, and got good eating out there before it was 90% just social from the standpoint of drink or gambling or whatever it was, whatever they did out there.
But I didn't want no part of it. Was that primarily started and was the membership primarily from the Reformed element? I think that's all it was. I don't know if any Orthodox peer could-we didn't have conservative military then. You were either Orthodox or you were Reformed A conservative movement was something new Oh I messed up there now Do you remember anything about the Phoenix Club prior to the Columbia Club? But I don't-not enough to even- Merlin, huh? Merlin. Yeah, it was a Phoenix here, but I-P-H-O-E-N-I-X. Phoenix, probably. It was-they had a Phoenix hall or something. I forget what it was. But I-faintly, but not enough to even refer to it.
You don't have any idea why it was called the Phoenix hall? I don't know anything about it. It's out of my realm. What about the old YMHA? How did that get started? Well, the bunch got together and Jewish boys and started the YMHA, and it was on top of the Dreyfus and Son building on Main and Murphy Street upstairs, where the YMHA started. I didn't belong to it. And I think then they bought the old Elves Club on Pocahontas, the federation that later used its headquarters. Do you remember anything about the young Israel Club? A little bit. I forget. I was a little bit ahead of me, I think.
I remember it, yes, but not enough to talk on the subject, because they had a young young youthful club here. I did not belong to that. We had a-we had H.S. No. C. that was Hebrew Social and Outing Club. They had a T-double-O club, 21 only, and Jewish 100 percent, and you couldn't take a shikzi to any of the fairs. You had to take a Jewish girl. And then, too, I remember, which I belonged to. Was there any underdating at that time, or much? Was there any question of interdating? What do you mean, any question? Did some of the boys date non-Jewish girls? Wasn't there much of them?
They did what-sure they dated some Jewish girls. I don't know, I don't think. You think there's more in a marriage now than there was in a marriage? Oh, there's no argument about it. Today there's nothing to it. What was the parents' reaction when the Jewish boys dated a non-Jewish girl? Well, there wasn't a reaction. They had no reaction. They knew nothing about it. It was all on the slides, most of them. You're going out, you don't say I'm going out with Mabel Jones, you know what I mean. I'm just going out. You go out with whoever you want to go out with. Sure you date them.
There's nothing unusual about that. But intermarriage was taboo, but there was some then. The fact is, my brother I was shown was married to a Gentile girl. And my cousin Oscar I was shown was also married to a Gentile girl. And, you see, well, they have three kids. And all the kids are married to Jews. Did the girls convert, or were the kids just brought up as Jews? No. The part I know they did not-I don't know what Oscar-Alma did or not. I don't think so. I don't think they did. What about politics? What do you mean politics? How did the Jews generally vote? And did they vote, Jews community-wise?
Were they active? I don't think it was, I don't think it ever voted community-wise. I think everybody voted their own mind, whatever they thought on it. I didn't know any. Of course, you might have talked a little bit about X, Y, or Z running for office. I don't remember the Jews. My mind don't go back that far in the regular days, because we had some Jews on the city council or different things I can recall The earliest I can recall is when Emil Carbless run for councilman Did he win He did. He went with the Catfish Group. What's the Catfish? Well, it was a group that called the Catfish.
And Emil, I think Waddy Tate let his sole recipe run for mayor, and Emil run for councilman. And he was elected. And he went for re-election and won. He won the second conference? And he carried three or four of the brothers with him. Called them the little Napoleon. I think that's the only one I recall that was way back out of him. See, when Joe Herman Goebbels was elected later on. That's Kearns. Thirty-six, that's thirty-five years ago. Were they active in politics generally? Were Jews active in politics generally? Were there any Jewish judges? I don't recall. I don't think so. Best of my memory, I don't recall.
What about in the Democrats or Republican Party? Were the Jews active in any of that, for example? I never did food with them. I don't know. Would you say most of the Jews were traditionally liberal or conservative? I couldn't answer that. A lot of people talk about Jews as a group. I don't think they work as a group. I never did work in that category. I worked for people that I liked and thought they were good people. I worked for my friend Bill McCraw, that he saw the peace man running for attorney general. He was elected. And they run for governor and he was defeated by my friend Senator W Leo Daniel And I didn like the senator then When he beat my friend I didn know the Senator then I knew him afterwards Reuben Williams, let him so rest in peace, was a friend of the Senators.
And Reuben Williams was, let's see, Let's see, I think he was on the Railroad Commission. But the Senate wouldn't confirm him as a member of the Insurance Commission, I'm sure because it was a Jew. Now, a lot of people think Jews vote X, Y, or Z. The only time I think a Jew would vote for X, Y, or Z, he's against somebody. Well, he knew he was an 18-carat monster, you know, and against the Jews or something like that. I don't think otherwise that they voted. I don't think the Jews voted the bloc. People think they do, but they don't, in my opinion. There's a lot of talk on that, but even amongst the Jews, you know what I mean?
He's against Israel, like on National. He's against this, and he tried to come out with it. And some of those things come out of the best way. I don't think they're going as a block. You take Irvin Goldberg. He got this federal judgeship, and he was doing a good job. And he just had me a friend of the president, that was all, of William Johnson. And you take Bob Strauss as treasurer of the Democrat National Committee. But I don't think it's a Jewish question there. I even think a lot of these things are Jewish questions. I may be wrong, but I can't see it as a Jewish question.
Would you happen to remember when one of the slangers was on the city council or do you remember any talk of it when they brought in Kessler to do the city planning I remember the Kessler plan, that's been years ago, but I never was that close to it. I mean, I never was that close to the subject matter. I remember when they were running for different offices around town, and when they had a commission former governments. And they used to have these dumb speakings on corners, you know. Then they have radio and television those days. But I know that I was on the City Financial Advisory Board in 36, I think it was, with a group of fine people.
They're all gone, and I'll let that show the piece. The governor of the Federal Reserve Bank, B.M. McKinney, T. Stadio of the National Bank of Commerce, Joe Walter of Liberty State, and Lester Russell, a realtor, and myself, was on the Senate Financial Advisory Board. And I think I was on the head board one time. I was a little active in politics in those years. I mean, I was with a group, and that group run for office. He was my friend. I like the sister who collected taxes, and I did what I could for him, but I didn't make a big noise. I did make a little bit of noise for Bill McCall when he run for attorney general.
In fact, as he appointed me, he had me appointed a receiver for an oil pit in East Texas. I had an oil pit out there big enough to float around a battleship doing a hot oil day. But that's where you've got a friend and you're for your friend and that's all there is to it. It's all on that basis. It's politics messed on. You've got a friend. You've got a lot of judges down here right now, in my opinion, that not qualified. In my opinion, well, they're likely to be 110 percent wrong. I think I'd go the same for the Justice Society of the Supreme Court.
We had a pretty good Jew up there and they tried to make him chief justice, that's when he tore his britches. He should have left him alone. He don't know when you're getting alone. He's like, well, Wilson, he was a very staunch criminal prosecutor and he's doing a good job in Washington. When he's out in private practice, he got himself in the crack. Time magazine come out where they used him to pay off on something, $2,500, in 1956, I think it was. These politicians, boy, they unearthed everything, what you had for breakfast 42 years ago. And with who? And you've paid for it. And why?
That's politics for you. I'm a little afraid of these politicians. They're too smart for me. And they're not straight, most of them. And I know I had a little settee with them on that Ben Jack Cage team. I know, I learned a little bit. They're trying to find a scapegoat on everything. They're clean and wholesome, like Wagner Carr. He was on this Senate Investigative Committee when I was down there. When they investigated, there had been Jack Cage. They had me on the spot. And they did everything in the world to try to get me involved in the thing on the Mergandale Bank. But thank God, thank God they didn't.
Well, there was nothing to get involved on. They knew what the trouble was right there any insurance commissioner's office. If there's any fault, Mergandale Bank didn't do anything. but they always try to find something to latch on to, these politicians. They want to put it on, you know, the greatest defense is an offense. I not talking about it I rather not be involved At the time that Bill was running for Trinity General he was a partner with my friend Tom Clark Well, Tom Clark I love, and Tom Clark is one of the best friends I ever had and have today. And he's the same Tom Clark that I knew 40 years ago.
And I can call on Tom Clark today just like I could 40 years ago. The fact is, he and I went to a baseball game together in 33. And he owned a house right by the ballpark. And he and I went there. I think all he ever got out of the house was placed Clark that night. And he gave me his pass. I still have it in 1933. That's 38 years ago. But Tom and I just have to be friends for no reason at all. You get to be a friend to somebody or a guy's friend to yours. And, of course, Bill was his partner in law practice when Bill runs.
And actually, I did what I could on it and worked with him every way I could. And Bill was elected. And if he'd been elected governor, I went, oh, boy, he came to me and said, Mara, I want to be banking commissioner. I said, you have my best wishes. I said, don't give me that. I said, I know you're going to appoint a bank commissioner. I said, that's news to me. There was news, of course. There wasn't an election, so I didn't have that problem. You think any of the offices have gotten-are many of them gotten through elections rather than appointments? Or have any Jews gotten election other than appointments?
Should I put it this way? Other than Goldman and- Goldman and Conn. That's all I know. I don remember any Jewish judges down there if I remember correctly Do you have any feelings or have you heard any reflections of Jews on juries where they been passed over on jury service as opposed to non You know, never have. I think the big question that you're referring to, a lot of conversation, there are spots where the Jews are stiff-armed, so to speak, but because they are Jews, but a lot of things they talk about I don't think are true, in my opinion. I think if you conduct yourself as a person with integrity, I think you will be respected accordingly.
Too many people, it's like the colored person said, because he's colored, he wasn't appointed mayor pro tem. Right away they jump. That's what the color does. And I don't think our people ought to be in that category. I think our people ought to be on the basis of what they really are and what they really represent and do a job. And I think they'll be appreciated for that, period, and not because they're Jews or will they be elected or defeated defeated or will they be honored because they are or vice versa. It's not on that basis. As I said previously, there's certainly some prejudices in too many of them.
But I don't think, I think we take on too much on the subject matter that's not there. That's just my opinion. Do you find any act of anti-Semitism in the community generally? Act of what? Act of anti-Semitism. I don't find any. I told you we're not loved, we're indulged, and they rather not have anything to do with you. I mean, as a masses, you know what I mean. But I don just like well what happens what we used to say that nigger or that Irishman or that bop or that this or that It's not meant in any way derogatory, so to speak. You just, oh, that fat so-and-so or that skinny so-and-so or that old so-and-so.
You know what I mean? It just, a little bitter when it comes out. But I don't think, I don't think that a Jew can go ahead and get a job in a place where there's three or four of them, five or not qualified. I think the Gentile would have a better chance to get a job than a Jew. But if a Jew is well qualified, you take the boys down in Austin when they graduated law school, when they graduated with high honors like Harold Hoffman did. The Clark firm took them in. You're taking the Clark firm right now, they've got that Ginsburg up there, and they've got a Jew boy up there, too, another one.
I mean, and I know my cousin, Sylvan Toblosky, that this big law firm, Turner, Atwood, so on and so forth, wanted Sylvan up there. And his name was Sylvan Toblosky. And they even want me to build white. And he talked to me, talked to Sylvan, and Sylvan wasn't interested. I think they were going to pay him $25,000 a year to start with, and then he wouldn't have no overhead of any kind. So he decided he wanted to go and finish for himself, and he did. Thank God he was doing very nicely. I think I had this cousin of mine, of course, Captain Sickdale or something, this Dr.
Ray. Weissong Clinic wanted him. In fact, they talked to me because he knew his relative of mine. And I tried to get Norman to go up there, but he didn't want to. But I mean, you can see if a fellow's got it. Because he's a Jew, I do not believe that he's going to be held back. And I know I'm doing business with a lot of people over years. You take my friend Joe Craddock, let him sow recipes. I was his banker. John Bluff was his lawyer and Jack Lewis was his accountant, all three Jews. You figure. Do you find that there's been change? Was this so 30 years ago?
Well, that was up until he died here, just not too long ago, up in say the last 10 years. Would you say your attitudes have been the same, say, in the last 40 years? I'm getting too old to be involved like I used to be involved. Therefore, I'm not out amongst them like I was 25, 30 years ago. But I think a lot of our new boys are still making friends all over. And they still, you take, what's her name? Sontag Alice Sontag this boy that Fichtner had his bar met and I said that that the lawyer they went to And I just saying I didn send them there I mean, they went on their own.
And, honey, I think it's the individual. And if they know you, they've got faith and confidence in you. You take a Jewish doctor the same way. I'd say that most of our Jewish doctors, I bet that 75% of their patients are non-Jews. Of course, naturally, you take a doctor like Dr. Rothschild, because he is a Jew, and people know him and got confidence in him, so they go to him. And that's the reason that many Jews go to him, and many Jews went to Dr. Sellers' office show them. But if you go up there to Dr. Sellers' office, but first got up there now, or there's the name of Michael, you go up there to his office, and I'd say that 75, 80 percent of his patients are non-jews.