Michael Jacobs
Mike Jacobs was born in Konin, in the Poznan district of Poland, one of six children in a family of eight. His father sang with him in the synagogue choir, and Mike attended public school through the seventh grade before continuing at night school. When Germany invaded Poland in 1939, he was about 13 or 14 years old and living in his hometown near the German border. He recalled watching German soldiers drive Orthodox Jews from the synagogue on the Jewish New Year and, weeks later, seeing his family taken from their home and sent by train to a ghetto in Ostrowiec. His parents, brothers, and sisters were later sent to Treblinka in 1943, and one brother was killed while fighting with the partisans.
During the war Mike worked in labor and concentration camps, including Ostrowiec, where he built fish hatcheries and made bricks for steel mills. He became active in the underground, going out to buy weapons for the partisans, and because he did not appear obviously Jewish he passed at times under a Polish name. He described narrow escapes, hiding in hay, playing drunk to avoid the Gestapo, and slipping in and out of camps while fellow prisoners covered for him. He was later transported to Auschwitz and Birkenau, where he operated a switch engine in a scrapyard, and endured the atrocities of the death camps. In January 1945 he was forced on a brutal winter death march, then taken through Vienna to Mauthausen and Gusen II, where he sabotaged Messerschmitt aircraft production.
American forces liberated Mike on May 5, 1945, when he weighed only about 35 kilos and was 18 years old. He came directly to Dallas in 1951 from Mittenwald in Bavaria, Germany. In Dallas he entered the scrap business, the same kind of work he had been forced to do at Auschwitz. He spoke often to schools and groups about the Holocaust, keeping his prisoner cap from the camps as a testimony, and became a co-founder of the Dallas Holocaust Center. Reflecting on his experiences, he spoke repeatedly of the preciousness of freedom and his belief that a person can be stronger than steel, having never given up hope of liberation.
Full Transcript
I came here in 1951. Did you come directly to Dallas at that point? Yes, yes. Yes. Okay, and what was your point of departure from Europe? Germany. In Germany? Yes. Okay, and what city in Germany? Mietenwald in Bavaria. In Bavaria? Yeah, in Gavischpark. Okay. And would you mind spelling the city's name for me, please? Yes. M-I-T-T-E-N-W-A-L-D. Would you mind if I use this? Yeah, this is enough. This is British. Okay. Oh, kiddo. Can I understand now that you were in at least one German concentration camp during World War II? I was in Auschwitz, Mauthausen, Gusenstuhl, in Germany, yes. my thousands of austrian yes right now there were your mission three yes here I wasn't a lot of knowledge to this in Poland oh really yes so in other words you're winning four different ones close get those and close in the partisans okay if you will miss just I'm going to ask you to spell each of these.
Okay. Mr. Hamerson, give me the sentence in which they will look at you. Okay. I'll tell you what, if you want to write them down, I'll just... Okay. ...tell this off for the last game. Okay. Ostrowicz in Poland. O-S-T-R-O-W-I-C. O-S-W-I-E-N-C-I-N. Auschwitz, Birkenau, B-R-K-E-N-A-U, Mauthausen, Austria, M-A-U-T-H-A-N-S-E-N, Gusentu, Austria, G-U-S-E-N-2. Number two. Number two? Yes, number two, yeah. Alrighty Now did you pronounce it Auschwitz Auschwitz in Polish Auschwitz Auschwitz in Germany correct At what age were you first committed to a country that you came by the Germans To a camp, to a labor camp, when I was 14, 14 and a half. I was 14 years old, yes, exactly.
What age were you when the World War II broke out? In other words, now we're talking in terms... In 1939. In 1939 when Germany invaded Poland. Poland, yes. Right. And you were 14? I was 13 going, 13 and a half, I finished school, I mean public school. Yes. You said public school. Yes. That's when you all finished with that, early in age. Yeah, we only got to seven grades. Later we got to night school in Poland where I came from, to high school. So you were born in who? I was born in Poland. KONIN. K-O-N-I-N. District of Poznan. P-O-N-Z-N-I-A-N. Poznan. Okay, and at the time that World War II broke out, then you were still living in the city of your birth?
Yes. Okay, and then the Germans overran Poland. That's correct. And at this point then, in 1939, do you remember the month? I can't remember the time of year. It's the tenth of the month, was it, I'm sure. What month, do you remember? It seemed that it was in the spring. Is that correct? like in April no no it wasn't I guess going with summer on the phone I go back to it later on to come back to with this okay so you were 14 yeah would you would you tell me a little bit let's back up just a bit and and spark and and I'm going to interrupt you just as infrequently as possible if you just tell me the story as you remember it and in direct chronological order as you can face it and we why don we start with the time then that the German troops marched into your city in 1939 we were close to the German border and when the German came in if I not mistaken it was on the Jewish New Year.
It had to be in a fall, the tenth month, or the ninth or the tenth. And when they marched in, as most people know, New Year is a high holidays, and we were all the synagogues we had the Hasidish, Hasidim, the ultra-orthodox Jews in one little room and the big synagogue where I went with my father and I was singing in choir. We left a little bit earlier but the Orthodox Jews didn't want to leave and the German people came in and the law was that no person can congregate, especially the Jewish people, and pray to God. And I can remember today, you know, because we were living on this square, looking across to our synagogue, our temple, and they run them out with their shawls, you know, the author's people, they were wearing a shawl, and they didn't do nothing to them, but they said next time if they will find Jewish people congregate in the synagogue, they will execute them.
And people did congregate, you know, in the houses, you know, to pray, and they were looking right away for people to work. they used to take, let's say my brother, we were a family of eight, my mother and father, three brothers and two sisters. And I was a young kid, and to let my brother stay home and work and make a living for the family, I used to go to work for him. and a few days later, oh, about three weeks, they came into our house and they took us out and leaving all the belongings to the old Polish soldier buildings what it was for the soldiers In the same night they took us on trains and they sent us to the name of Ostrovitz to a ghetto over there uh...
You say a ghetto? Ghetto, yes. In other words, uh... what is it, what are you... are you using this term, Mr Jacobs, in the same sense that we use it here now? Yes. You said the ghetto was moving in the slum area? No, no, no, no. It has nothing to do with it. It was the ghetto that all the Jewish people were concentrated in maybe 10 square blocks. They couldn't go out without the permission from the Polish or the German police. The only thing they could go out if they were working on the outside. They were permitted to go out in a group, watched by a German police or Polish police, and they had all the Jewish police in the ghetto.
Over there, I was working in camp. And that was what we call a labor camp. It's, you can call it a concentration camp, you can call it a labor camp. The German used to call it a labor camp anyway. We used to call it a concentration camp. You see, over there we were, I was working, we were going always outside. While, let me backtrack a little bit. in the ghetto. I lost one brother, you know, on the ground. In the partisans. We had partisans over there, in Poland, fighting against the German. You know, there was something like the Polish underground? Right, correct. But he was not killed fighting the German.
He was killed fighting one partisan the other. There were two Polish partisans. It was the Armia Krajowa, that means the Polish partisans directed from English, from England. But they had the Polish army over there. And you had the partisans They really were fighting the Germans because they had no place where to go and to destroy their trains, you know, the lines where the trains were going, sabotage. And they had a fight with the Polish partisan and my brother was killed. I used to work on the ground myself as a partisan. When I go to New York, they don't call me lots of friends of mine, they don't call me by my name Mike, they still call me partisan.
What was, you know, that I never, I didn't look like a Jew, Jewish boy. And I used to go out from camp or from the ghetto or from camp, go out and buy weapons, guns, or so far, to give it to the partisans. I used to go into the German casernes and buy from the Germans. For money, I guess, they were selling everything. But some guns, they were good guns, some were not. But we could get along with them. In Ostrovitz, I used to work. There still comes what... It was not so bad. that's me we still could go out on the outside and work and organize food that's mean some people come in with some belongings like gold and diamonds and these take out and buy them in the camp I used to work in a hatchery once, and I used to work, you know, to make bricks for steel mills.
The hatchery, you're talking about a chicken hatchery? Fish hatchery, sorry, fish hatchery, yes, we're building fish hatcheries. Excuse me, let me make sure that we're... I used to work in a hatchery once, and I used to... If I am backtracking a little bit, maybe you can... Okay fine When the ghetto was still I was in the underground And I can remember very very clearly like the picture would stay before my face I came into the ghetto to get some money for the underground. At the same night, I was supposed to leave the ghetto, and I couldn't leave the ghetto anymore because they were circled around with Polish police and the SS and Gestapo to take out the people.
God knew where we didn't know where the people are going to go. And being me over there, I decided to leave the ghetto. Any cost to leave it, to leave ghetto. I went, there was a big wooden fence around the ghetto. I knocked out about three or four planks. And people sometimes get very, very selfish. and it was a woman over there standing before her, and she said to me, Mike, are you going? I say, no, I'm not going. I say, you go first, I go after you. The reason I'm saying selfish is because I figured maybe she will go. If they will see her, she will get shot.
I cannot go. And at the moment she said, no, I did not hesitate for a minute. I walked out, I start walking. Now I decided to go maybe to my left. I was afraid to go to my left because when the dogs will start to bark, they will awake the people, they start to scream, and the assassin, the police will get me. I decided to go straight. I had a towel behind my arm, and walking straight, I saw a Gestapo man, I know and he had to remember like today, a white shepherd. That was a killer. And he was talking to somebody. And I'm walking very like nothing happens, you know, whistling very happily.
And I passed by him. Now I have to figure out which way to go. Go straight. If I go straight up the hill, I will go straight to the Gestapo, you know, where they live. If I go to my right, I will go around the Jewish cemetery, and I'm sure they're going to stop me. If I go through the garden somebody will get the dogs to bark and they would wake up and they would catch me I decided to go straight to the streets All of a sudden I heard a call Halt. Stain blinded. That means stop. I didn't understand German word. All of a sudden I hear in Polish.
Stui. Bochela. Stop. I will shoot. at this time when he spoke in Polish, I had to stop, I walked very closely to him and I had the laborer with me, I did have the laborer and I decided, if should they say to go with them, I will take a chance in killing them but at the same time when I was walking I had some shooting going on over there, I come back to the shooting later they stuck me and they say Ausweis that means to be at least to have you know the notification cards but I had one made that I'm polish my name was Marian Jakubowski polish name I had it looked at it and looked at me this policeman this fellow fable that's been the sergeant, I used to work for him once.
And I was afraid he's going to recognize me. He looked at me, he looked at me, and he says, what I'm doing over here, you know that is an hour over the time. And I say, I'm sorry, my clock is shown 8 o'clock. He said, you know, it's 9. The same day I was lucky, they changed the clock. Where are you going? I say I'm going to my aunt to fix the stove. I say where do you live? Not all of them because it's on my vacation card. Where do you work? At the Hermann Göring worker that used to be a mill and they used to make plate and build boxcars.
Is this named the same German German? German? Yes, that's right, exactly. And he spelled his name G-R-O-E-N? N-G. O-O-M-L-A-N-G. He looked at me he looked at me and says okay you can go but make it fast I was walking you know and I come into the field You know, sometimes you see a horse going with his hooves on the pavement, and fire goes behind the hooves. I bet you you could see fire going because I was going, carrying me over there. I went through the field and I saw a silhouette coming towards me. I have no place more to go. I know I'm going to go to a Polish person, to a house.
And he used to be a forest ranger. He knew me. He knew my family. I know I can go over there and stay with him for a while. I saw a silhouette. How he was walking, I said, I know this guy. I went away to the side, I didn't know, when approached me close to me, I said, where are you going? He said, he's going back to the ghetto, and because they have hidden some money someplace, and he's going to take it out and take it back, because he was hidden by Polish people, about 20 people. They had to pay lots of money, you see, for hiding them, because this family took also took a risk, you know, to hide the Jewish people.
I say, you're not going to go back. Oh, he says, I am going to go back. I say, you are not going to go back. You say, why? Because the ghetto is circled around by the Germans, and if you go a little bit closer, another 150 yards or something, you're going to get killed. Finally, I persuaded him, and we went back. Now, I say, oh, I have a place where to go. He walks, he walks, I say, I'm going with you. I said, Mike, you cannot go. I said, yes, I'm going. I have no place to go and I know you've got a good place, hidden place.
I'm going to go. Finally, he talked, he talked to me and I decided not to go. I went in to another friend, Polish friend at a small store and he was sitting over there and talking and talking and saying I don't want to go at night, I want to stay over here in the morning I will go some, I will go to work, don't worry about it. While I was sitting over there, the Gestapo were looking for Jewish people for other ways She stays over there and says, don't worry about it. I'm going to play a drunk here. So drunk that they can talk to me.
Listen to what they say. All of a sudden I put my head... They used to sell vodka over there, you know. I'm getting drunk. They come in and they ask. I can hear. They ask in German or in Polish. They ask if they didn't see somebody over here. I ran away. know it, it came this way. She said no, and I had my hair, my long hair, like today. No, I've had long hair, maybe not. Yeah, put it close. He lays out my hair, and I'm drunk. What's he doing over here? She said, he's working over here. What's his name? She says, Maria, what's second name?
She knew because I told her. She knew what my name, and they took out my thing, they looked at it, they put it back, and they're still looking at me. and I put down my head you know my head falls down like like I'm drunk and they walked out I walked out I looked at her she was white and like the wall okay I said I'm going I'm going I went to another farmer and I went in there with a storage in the hay and I covered myself up with hay over there that was overnight and they came in over there too and they took some long things that were going pitchforks they were going that's right pitchfork going and they stood because i was totally deep down and in the morning i walked out from
over there the people saw me walked down and said mike do you mean you were over here i said yes do you know that we could have get killed i said they had to put this bang on the fire before they can catch me finally i went over there to my friend over there and I was staying over there for four weeks, four weeks I was working with him on the ground and come back at night to them they had another forest rancher over there and he never came in and talked to this guy, all of a sudden he came over there, neighbors like a
duplex he talked to me and he says what are you doing over here I say I'm from Krakow and I am come to buy lumber for Germany So far we took out the lighting Next night I took off to the forest Okay in the morning I say I going to see the people when I was playing a drunken I buy some food and go. All of a sudden I see lots of people coming, I saw Jewish people are coming, you know. And I say okay, if they come, I'm not afraid. I went to the side and looked, they don't have no asses watching them, they didn't watch them.
and and i'm walking and i say to my friends hey how are you how are you and everybody didn't say another word i said maybe they didn't want to say nothing and they looked at me they looked at me and they start they say what are you doing over here i said what do you mean what i'm doing over here he buried you at the cemetery i said what do you mean the same night i told you about what shooting going on another person run away the new eye did run away they didn't know who he was and they shot him they buried him at night you see that's right and everybody's jumped around and so far and they were working the same fish hatchery that i used to work you know I decided not to go back to the forest.
I decided myself to go back to camp. It started to get hot behind my feet. What do you mean hot? The Polish people, not all of them, if they could denounce a Jew or an underground person a bottle of vodka and five pound of sugar they used to go to the German people and tell them here's what that's right that's right that's right exactly didn't matter at all okay and so I'm going to go back to camp I went back to camp while I was while I was in camp I found me a job to go in and out Did you have any trouble re the camp No people didn say nothing And the Germans did not realize you had come back That right They didn know I was going or coming They covered for me the people inside And if they thought that they had buried you were the Germans aware No no no they didn know They didn know but among the Polish people the Jews The Jewish people they knew yes Yeah they thought it had been a job right Yeah, that's right.
Because, you see, they covered for me, they used to count so many people every night, and always used to cover for me that it would always be the same time, the same amount of people. and I walked over there as I said you know later on to make bricks for the steel mills. When I was Nostrovich, when I was Nostrovich and I came over there and I was working for for on the ground so far I decided to run away again I decided to go it's time to go but at the time how much time it lasts now does it like less than a year less than a year yes when I tried to run away that's total lots of friends of mine let's go now it's time to go to the for us back because I don't like it.
We were watched by the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians were watching us in camp. They were the Ukrainians, the Russians. Oh, the Ukrainians, yeah. Okay. They were watching. Sometimes they were worse. They were worse than the Germans in the Los Angeles. The horrors all of it Mike is we can possibly pull out. And what I plan to do incidentally is not just make one story, but run a series each week. We're a weekly publication called it. And you know, in terms of eight or so weeks, however many weeks that it takes to tell it as you have told it to me. And if it's alright I'll be using your words to tell it.
Oh sure, certainly, certainly, no doubt about it. all if for okay what we decided this time I guess the German decided to take us out most of its is enough to another camp besides run away and we went in pearls the first you know is the same as the get you know is a camp the second can go to get ghetto To the camp Yeah you went to To the camp To the labor camp To the labor camp right Okay. Now in Ostrovitz, you know, we decided to go. You know, we decided to go. We decided by a dozen of young boys, we're going to go.
Now, since two boys went, we were shot. The other two boys went, they came back because they couldn't go. go they were watching we decided not to go we're going to wait maybe if they take us out to the trains or any place we were thinking we're going to get chapped we didn't know we're going to go another camp they took us out to the trains and they put us in you know the carl trains in poland there are small windows on the top and they put us in maybe 75 in a carl train and we are with under the carl train. Now we're thinking about how to run away.
Now these trains, the box cars were solid except these windows. Small windows, exactly. Small, that's right, four windows, very small windows. It's maybe by a foot by two feet. That's all. Right. And these were on top of the car, not on the side or anything. On the side, close to the roof. Close to the roof, you know, on the sides but close to the roof. They were all with the, what do you say? Barbs? Barbs already for us that we couldn't run away. But we decided to make a hole in the floor. And we did make a hole in the floor. With knives. So wood?
Wood, yes. But when we went in to the trains, they said, should anybody escape from any car everybody is going to be shot in that car people start to beg us not to run away not to run away and I decided not to go because should they catch me I would know the difference but my country would be over 70 people and I decided not to go They tried us to get out from Poland, someplace I guess, we don't know where, and they couldn't get us through because we were cut off from the Russians and the Americans. At this time... In other words, the Russian and American forces interceded...
Yeah, that's right, that's right, going to Austria, you see, going to Czechoslovakia. Yes. Okay. And at this time, they took us off the train, and this was an Oberstlesian, that means High Schlesier, what you call it. that's it that's it's a whether the only for our nation it's it's like it's like a state it's like a state already a bit of the country you see slas you have to look about slas slones and polishes flows I know it's on the south of God by Chancellor back here in Germany okay and still in Germany it's still in Germany now without being Germany yes they took us off the train and now we have to walk We went to another train, at this time in open trains, completely open trains.
What kind of signs did they have? Coals are cold. There were cold trains. In other words... Cold... Ah, cold, winter, no food. Finally, it came in to Auschwitz. not many of it's back, okay? this is about the train about the train in God of Slesia, erase this okay, erase what? from the train? when I want to run away right, the train is going to Slesia, erase it, this comes later We came into Auschwitz. Let's put it this way. We came into Auschwitz We didn know but we saw Schwenchen We saw Auschwitz We didn know what it was And all of a sudden we coming in you know to a big camp We come out on the camp over there, and I was with my friend, he is now still, he's New York.
And we're walking together and he says, Mike, it's going to be okay, you know. know is that you can organize you know what because that bakeries over there and the baking bread you're not going you're going to the I'm sure you're going to get into the bakery because I used to get into things oh right yeah and I went a little bit closer I said uh-uh can't you smell it they say no I said there's human flesh that's not bakeries we are trapped now I start to get a little bit jittery, you know. What to do? I cannot run away anymore. Forget about it. Where are your parents now?
My parents were killed already. They went to, my parents were killed in 1943. They were sent to Treblanco. My brothers and sisters, my mother and father, they went straight to Triblanka. How does this spell, Mike? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, yes. T-R-I-B-L-A-N-K-A, Triblanka. That is in Poland. That was a camp of Noriturn. That's a camp. People did not go to work. They went right straight to the crematoriums. Burned openly in big pits. Were they shot first? Do you know? No, no. Yes, uh... I'd ask you if they were shot before they were, you know, put in these picks. No, it depends. Depends. You see, I couldn't tell you.
I wasn't over there. I'm sure they were guests. I'm sure they were guests. I want to go now to the nitty-gritty, but I didn't still tell you stories from before. But if you've got enough tape, I can go back. Please. We came into Auschwitz. When we came into Auschwitz, they put us in for, they took us off all the clothes first, in one big place. The clothes off, because people used to bring in, you know, belongings, money, sofa, and eat, and food. And they give us different clothes They give us you know the camp clothes We stood at we didn get the clothes now but we went into the shower to the sauna we call it And this place where we went in first, we found out later, they call it Canada.
Canada. No, Canada. Canada. Canada. Yeah, C-A-N-A-D-A. Oh, Canada. Canada okay my accent is okay. Yeah, you know why they call it Canada I found out later on because The European the Polish people or the other people they used to say Canada is a haven It's good and the people what used to work over there. They had everything they want to because if I brought in a local bread or a bother I had to leave it they had it they had plenty for to eat that's what they call it Canada you're talking about you're talking about the German soldiers the prisoners the prisoners the prisoners okay how could they allow you to bring this stuff in because we came from the other camps and if you usually we had a little bit more you know food on the way but if they made you strip The people that worked in this Canada, what we call it, they did get the food.
Okay, in other words, they were part of you all. That's right, sure. That's right, sure, certainly. Lots of people came from ghettos. You see, from ghettos, they let them take some belongings, not knowing where to go. We didn't have too much to give it to them at all, because we could eat it right quick. But people used to come with bread, they used to come with butter, they used to come with meats, they used to come with money, with gold and diamonds, all their belongings, and they know what's the point of takeaway, we're going to take away anyway over there in Campenau. Okay, then did these people then, you know, turn around and share with you all once in a while?
No, no, no, no. They just kept it. They kept it. They couldn't talk too much to us anyway. Yeah, right. Because they were afraid to talk. okay when you come baby come into Auschwitz you know we went into the shower very very hot water before we went into the shower room they had a pit a big pit with a water what you had to step into it before and if you had cats or boys it was murder it burned you okay that right this wasn this effectiveness affect us they want to see how much you can take At this time we went in we had a wet hot shower Not cold hot And everybody runs away from it We had to go under it We still didn know where we were going We still don know We go out from over there, we go through a line, and one person gives you a hat, one gives you a shirt, one gives you a pants, one gives you a shoes, one gives you everything, but you don't get the same size.
I had a size I could go around five times myself. Okay, we came over there. We still don't know where we are going. Still don't know. We went in a camp what we call D, Camp D. That was a quarantine for Auschwitz. We still don't know where we are. A night before, this camp was occupied by gypsies, families. And the same night when we came, they took them out and they went to the crematrix, the whole families. We were over there in Auschwitz and in this camp, oh, I guess I was over there about two months. See the time, you never think about time, you never know what the date was.
And they were looking for workers. I was young and I said, I'm a bricklayer. Never was a bricklayer. God looks at me, looks at me, he said, how much years of experience do you have? I said, oh, lots of ladies, I don't know. He said, how old are you? He said, oh, so much. He said, you cannot have too much experience. I said, yes, you see, you know, in Poland, when you're 12 years old, you go out and work. He said, you know, because lots of kids don't finish school because they have to go out and work. And I wanted my friends to be with me too.
While you walked away, I pulled in my friends with me. and they sent us to the working camp in Birkenau. That's me, of course, the barbwire. Went around, we went over there to work. In Birkenau, we just- In Birkenau. The other side of the barbwire camp? Yeah, that's right. From Auschwitz. In Auschwitz, you see, Birkenau, were the crematoriums. Birkenau was at a subsidiary from Auschwitz. Auschwitz was maybe three kilometers away from us but over here where we were were the crematoriums over there and the women's camp over there too. and I was in black 21 the next day they're assignment to go to work I did not know I was working in a scrapyard the same business what I am now I did not know you know how the future foresees over there I was working as a A rangier master, that means I was working with the engine, train engine.
I was pushing in planes, take them out. The Polish guy brought in the machine, the engine, and I took it over and pushed it in. And when potatoes come in, you know, for the Germans or for the chem, I said to push the potatoes in a difference line, I wish to push them in, where the people used to work. They used to go on the car and throw up a lot of potatoes they could eat. In other words, you were operating a switch engine? Right. That's right, switch engines. In Auschwitz, you know, it's hard to believe the atrocities for the German people, cultured people, were doing.
It's hard to still believe to be today. If I wouldn't been over there, would be hard to believe you can read it, see movies, and say to yourself, ah, it's not true, people exaggerating. You hear now from a person, what's over his own eyes. While I talking to you I picturing what I saying Let start off Auschwitz okay Auschwitz everybody knows about Auschwitz thousands of people were cremated in Auschwitz if the crematorium couldn take it they had a big pits that big pits where they should throw them in sometimes life you could hear screaming at nights people what couldn't make it had a boil on the face or the seat there so it is getting weak they used to take the number when you marched in inside from work because this camp was a working camp going out working at night when we hear the Syrian buzzing we know something is going on they call the number, see we were numbers.
Let's say for example like I have a number on my hand over here and in Auschwitz already got them on this side or on this side. But any time you see a number like this it had to be in Auschwitz, not can give this number. And if people couldn't take it they went to the electric wire and took one in seconds because all the wires were electricity and you could see hanging staying over there silhouette burn and cold suicide yes yes if I'm jump a little bit I will never forget the scene you know that we went to work I'm sure lots of people heard about Therese and stuff that was a I guess a woman's camp in Czechoslovakia and they brought over I don't know maybe five thousand girls you never saw so beautiful girls in your life I guess they picked them with long hair brown blue eyes and and black hair brunettes any redheads long beautiful when we used to walk by they used to always run them out in the front of us, you know, and without clothes and in the garrows that had still dignity in them, they used to curl around and turn around, they used to get beaten, you know, to turn back.
And a week later, you know, that's what was going on all the times. We did not pay no attention anyway because we were thinking you know that shameful you know to do this But I don know if people ever saw Gero shaved A man, when he shaves his hair, okay, he got very sharp features. But a woman, it was horrible. I guess they shaved the hair, maybe they needed nice hair to send it away to Germany. and next morning you know we heard he heard you know trucks going back and forth and next morning when the camp was empty just when they went to the crematoriums over there they were killed out yes the crematoriums people were killed over there like flies people were experimented experimented on them I know I know people what I'm living now to experiment on them and they're carrying on a family life but they don't have their own kids I know lots of friends when they went out from camp their voice was changed.
You know, they were trying to make from a man and a woman. And I know they didn't hide. They, I'm sure you saw the film 2-7, I guess. Did you watch it? Okay. It's true. it's true the only experiments but they show you over there they don't show everything not at all not at all you see not at all do you mean that in some cases surgical procedures or operations were performed to emasculate men and even try to change them into women right correct I know of experimentation that's correct I know I know a guy I knew and I saw and I talked to him after the war he had you know the chest like oh like the lady a girl you when she started the crippled to come in you know this time now he was talking like change his voice you know and that's right they did.
They used to I didn't see it but from women what after they came I talked to them you know they know their friends they used to have got to bed with German soldiers you see and see later on see how the pregnancy how they can have one two three or four kids so I think it's how it works kind of open pieces I know I I knew There were lots of kids, you know, what is over there and I was sitting over there and watching. They used to break their legs. You know, they used to break their legs, they used to break their arms. They want to see how many times a person can take it without giving injections.
Yeah, just the pain, yeah, just to see it. I still cannot understand that one human can do to the other one this way. I used to ask once, I said, why? And he told because the Jewish people, to him there's nothing. There was an animal, he says. And I couldn't say nothing because sometimes they didn't know who I was. You see, I was in camps in different nationalities. I was German, I was Polish, I was Russian. I was Jewish, you know, as it was good. I was changing myself. Yes. And Auschwitz, it was a death camp. It was a camp where people cannot realize it, what was going on.
The food was pretty bad. I still don't know till today how I made it through. I don't. I always say a person is stronger than steel. Yes, I never gave up. I always believed that the freedom is going to come. But I... What age are you now? Now I'm... I'm going 48. 48? Yeah. How old were you back then at... Seventeen. Seventeen. Yes. Going on eighteen years. And I used to sit over there, I used to drive the engine looking out, you know, and the train used to go by all the times over there. And I used to think to myself, why couldn't I change to a boxcar?
Because the boxcar is free, because of anything he wants to. And I'm over here looking out from inside to the outside and I cannot get out. Freedom is very precious. People maybe don't realize it, you know, when you leave the country like the United States, it's free, it's a good country. It's a country that I'm sure millions of people would like to come over here and live or they wish they're their own countries. because i went around quite a few countries after the war since i'm in the united states it's if a person's happy and free that freedom is more than anything else you can have i don't know what as much as anything you can have and the freedom is taken away you have nothing absolutely nothing auschwitz january the 18th 1945 guns, bombardment, the Russian land come close.
40 kilometers, about 25 miles from Auschwitz. They stopped, didn't want to move, because Auschwitz, the camp, they, I believe, and I I don't think that anybody can change my mind. They did not want to liberate Auschwitz. At all, the Russians. They took us out of Birkenau to the main camp Auschwitz. Over there we used to get grouped together and on the night one o'clock of January, Then I think we are marching Winter cold 35 kilometers in a day We cannot go by train we cannot get out They were taking us out some place to Germany People before us were killed a lot of people who couldn't make it.
They killed him not only with a straight bullet, but we call it with dundum bullet. Yes. And what could come here probably, you know, the, um, that they used to sing, especially... That's right. You know, when somebody gets shot in their head, the head is completely... And you had to walk... Does the bullet point literally explode? That's correct, yes. And you had to walk by all these things, you know, and they never removed it, you know, to show us, you better don't go, or you don't better slow down if not you're gonna be the same way and finally finally they did get us out to Czechoslovakia close to the end through put us on trains on the open now I come back on the open bikes cars and through Vienna up to Mauthausen.
In Mauthausen, in the hills, and that was a hard camp. I was over there about four weeks, and they took us to Guzm too. Over there we were working on underground rooms, the bills, they were working Messerschmitt plants, building Messerschmitt plants, we sabotaged them. Were you building them or were you carrying them? Yes, we were sabotaging them, pretty good. They couldn't understand when data came down. We knew exactly when the war was going to be over. If I may, I come back to Washington's Lady and you can put them together. Because one day you heard about making from human flesh, you know, lamps. heard about it like so one day all of a sudden I remember we used to have the big around dishes you know with the wooden spoons And all of a sudden we go to we were staying in line for lunchtime we were staying in line and everybody gets a full dish of soup.
And I couldn't understand, lots of potatoes, what's going on over here? Now I'm thinking, maybe the liberation is close, they want the feathers up, and show the world that the camps was not so bad, or they're going to kill us, or one from the boat. Rice, lots of potatoes, lots of fat on it. I look at it, I always was hungry. I look at it and I said to myself, I am not going to eat. Not knowing what it is. Figured, it's too fat. And I don't like it. Why so much soup? And they say, if you finish your one second, you can come back for second stool.
I took I took my portion of soap I looked at it stirred it I didn't like the fat because I know between animal fat not animal fat you see and I put it away and I went right quick to my friend who was a different place I said you're not going to eat this meal today it's all yes I'm going I say you are not so why don't eat it I don't like it it's too much a little bit I said no you're not he didn't need it either and next day people came to work or at night they did get what you call it
the century but once very quickly toilet I'm forgetting all this is work this is the century the center this entire yeah and other Devon you get this in Terry you know knocks you out you go because you have nothing left in your stomach you see and especially if you went to a toilet over there the toilet wasn't like over here to sit down you had a hole Very small you had to be very careful not to miss it And if you miss it the person what was taking care he was a prisoner to over there kill you and People when they were going over there
the one line so much they couldn hold it at the moment They couldn hold it they start to smell it took them out in the shadow You see And I found out later on it was human fat And we were talking the people asked me how do you know for sure I said I didn put it in But when I looked over, I raised up the spoon, I saw completely different. It's different, you know. and in 19 I lived over these things in 1945, May the 5th, tanks are coming in with the stars and I said to my friends don't go out the Russians, you see Russians have stars too but a different And I said, let me better go out.
I go out, you know, and start to talk. And some guy speaks Polish. He said, what kind of language do you speak? I speak Polish, German. Oh, Polish, yes, I'm from Chicago. Speaks to me Polish, American soldier. And he says, don't go out from the camps. We are Americans. Don't worry, you're free. We're going to bring you food. Don't go to medicine. Fine. I said, well, everybody, let's stay over here. You're not going to go out. And start throwing chocolate, cigarettes, and I remember like today I took, I take the first pop of a cigarette. I never was drunk in my life. I couldn't, I'd say, I heard the chocolate.
But I was very, very careful. When I left concentration camp, I weighed 70 kilo, 35 pounds. I was 18 a head. Yes. 35 pounds. I was like a skeleton. You see. How you could walk. But, I came back to my own. You see, this is my last head from the consideration camp. I never washed it. Like I left camp, I keep it this way. I tell you something, I'm sure lots of blood and sweat is in this head. Because I was reading a lot of time here. See this over here? And I kept this one because if I get invited to speak about the Holocaust, Some schools from so far always like to take this happening, you know, to remind them.
Yeah, but I put in mind people that saw... Let me tell you a small story. When I went out from camp to work, to make a cleanup in the ghetto, So, we had taken out all the furniture, all the clothes and everything belonging to Germany. We got to a street and I see a small kid. I always liked the story because to me, I was a kid too, you know, because I lost my family very young. and in the heart I'm still a kid. I'm always saying to my wife I'm still 20. The reason I'm still 20 because I never experienced to be a teenager.
I look at the teenagers of my kids, I never understand you see, because I never experienced a teenager. And this kid was over there, I don't think so was any more than six months old. I say to myself, oh oh, I hope the sergeant will leave this kid alone. But he says to me, see over there, a Juden kid, a Jewish kid is over there. I say to him, how do you know It could be you know because it was a Christian home over there I say the mother put it out to play a little bit outside But he was smarter than I was I said oh no You see what happened was the Jewish mother she knew that if she take the kid with her, the kid is going to be lost there.
She will give one chance this kid to put over there to the Christian home. home and they will come out and pick up this kid and nobody in their life would know about it that this is Jewish or non-Jewish. But I think they were afraid to take in this kid and they left this kid outside and he looked at it and he talked to me in German and I knew what's going to happen. I did not believe it. I was thinking I said leave it alone it's a kid it's not going to bother you. don't know nothing leave it alone come on let's go you see we go find some other thing gold and diamonds in the other rooms you know and he was happy to find them and that's correct exactly remember that's right that's right exactly the same son he takes out the sandwich and I say okay he's gonna I was thinking maybe he's gonna give it to the kid, and he's eating.
And I tried to walk away, and he take out his gun and cocked the gun. Now I say, oh oh, now Ori's gonna, maybe he's mad at me now. I say, you're not gonna do it, do you? He says, yeah.