Rabbi David Shawel
Rabbi David Shawel was born in Newport News, Virginia in 1955, into a family with deep American roots. His father was born in Newport News in 1919 and his mother in Huntington, West Virginia in 1928. His paternal grandparents came from Europe, his grandfather possibly from Lithuania, settling in Newport News by way of Baltimore, where family had come before them. His mother's family included relatives from Dayton and Cincinnati, Ohio. Raised in an observant household, David grew up amid the warmth of Shabbos, Pesach seders with cousins, and the smells of gefilte fish and Southern fried chicken. His hometown, though home to only about fifteen hundred Jews, sustained reform, conservative, and Orthodox congregations, a day school, and an active NCSY chapter.
David attended the day school in Newport News, later named the Henrietta Kosser Hebrew Academy after his beloved aunt, then continued his studies at Talmudical Academy in Baltimore, a yeshiva in Israel for four years, and college programs in Florida. Deeply influenced by his childhood rabbi and teacher, whom he counted among his heroes, he resolved to bring the love of Judaism back to the South. He met his wife, who was from Cleveland, Ohio, through a family connection in New York around 1978. Willing to go anywhere to teach Torah, he sought out small communities where he could make a difference, and served Charleston, South Carolina for five years before his contract there was not renewed amid community pressures.
In the summer of 1984, Rabbi Shawel came to Dallas, where he taught at Akiba Academy for four years before joining the Vaad HaKashrus, Dallas Kosher, where he has been employed ever since while also serving as a community mohel for more than three decades. Trained as a shochet as well, he performed ritual slaughter and circumcisions across the region, forming lasting bonds with the families he served. He and his wife raised five children, all educated at Akiba, and are blessed with thirteen grandchildren living in Cleveland, Maryland, and elsewhere. Reflecting on the tremendous growth of Dallas Jewish life and the strengthening of its traditional community, he offered a single guiding message to future generations: be engaged and be a giver.
Full Transcript
we're gonna get started today is Monday June 26 2007 teen I am Deborah Polsky executive director of the Dallas Jewish Historical Society and I am interviewing Rabbi David Shaw who is among his many opportunities here and the community muskie and works with the Baja Kush Ruth of Dallas so we're a by Shawn welcome so tell me a little bit about your family well tell you the history about how I got to Dallas by doing that girlier about my family okay King with three children from Charleston South Carolina in 1984 I was five years of Charleston and had one child born prior to us coming to
Charleston to a two were born in Charleston and the last year were one in Dallas when I first arrived in Dallas in 1984 I worked at a keep Academy as a teacher don't you take the teacher throughout my 32 plus years as I've been here I have been a mo held performing a ritual circumcisions and community all over the region all over the country so I taught for four years at Akiba and then in the summer of 88 I was hired to work in the body conscious of Dallas Dallas kosher and since that time I've been told the fully employed by the Dallas kosher agency
and it's still being a mobile in the community okay and so that's how you got here can you go back a generation or two to tell us your family story and how they came to America sure i pair it with my pencil boarding the United States my father was born in Newport News Virginia in 1919 my mother was born in Huntington West Virginia in 1928 my father's parents came from Europe his father came from possibly shovel Lithuania sha sha don't know for sure my mother my grandmother my father his mother came from called North Alania my grandmother had a sister in Baltimore and the CHEO
she came to she came to Baltimore she and her husband married my grandparents Barry I think Mary married in Baltimore and my grandmother did have a sister a Newport News Virginia and that's how my grandparents came to Newport News I don't know much prior to that Tom enter that my grandfather's father's name was was dove 'add that's with whom I met named after and I don't know anything about my my mother my grandmother's parents except I think one of them was named Ava that's what my uncle or Albert was named after his great-grandfather my mother's parents were from my mother's mother was from Dayton Ohio
my mother's father was from Cincinnati I don't recall whether he was born in the States or came over from whose store of Germany the bedrock of repent Judaism right um came to Cincinnati and a lot of their Jewish background was they got rid of when they came to America and so my parents came my parents were born in the States father was was born there and his if my mother was born although she was born honey in West Virginia they made their weight somehow to Newport News Virginia prior to the the Depression they were quite wealthy everyone I hear and at another reason I don't
recall the reason why they came to Newport News but surely after they came to my home to my hometown where I was born in Portage Virginia my grandfather died and my mother and her sister and her older brother were all raised by my aunt my grandmother s told Fox and she and her sister clung want to to Judy as my uncle did not and all the children of these two girls my aunt Henrietta and my mother all of them are quite observant passionately Jewish I would call it and that's their the Jewish side of that family my father's side and I'll think it's anyone in
his side that is engaged in Jewish life to the tick's to the extent of being of observant so what kind of work did your grandparents or your parents yeah my my father's my father was pretty much a caretaker for his parents he he he had might think that the way the story goes is that my grandmother had a sister as I said in Newport News and and somehow there was some monies that was given to them I worked for them to start a a sometimes short as a small grocery store and I and my mother my father as well when he when he started to
go into college or go into high school and he would work a little bit and give the certain percentages to his parents as well and that's how they survived during the during those years my father was as I said for 1919 and it was a rough time for them obviously and then my father went to he went he went to high school and then he went to the apprentice school was a compared to it two years to your college he worked on the ships in Newport News building being part of building aircraft carriers and things of that nature then he actually joined the Navy was
in the neighbor saw me he never saw any any action in world war two but he was told he went to Japan after the bomb set hit in order to clean you know my Nam place Wow and my mother was Newport News and she was I think he she was three I think she came to Newport News at that time that surely after that think her father passed away and and my grandmother just had to do whatever she had to do in order to support the three children and then they she did they then they have a a candy shop and I think that's how
they supported themselves and my mother worked in the the post office for a while my parents got married in 49 and my sister was 152 I was born fifty-five we I grew up in a new point is till I was after after my form is when my parents realized that they wanted to keep me that had to send me away I think wanted to keep me engaged my Judaism now beinac dude I did grow up in an observant uh my mother was growing up my mother was more more observant than my father at that time I don't you the size of the Sabbath observed at
that time but later he did become since my mother he made a promise to my mother she had ill listen you promise if she got out of the team would become shot and shimmer shadows and what was it like growing up in Newport News it was wonderful it was really big thank God we had to get a shoulder today's we had a day school as well so my hometown there was a reform conservative Orthodox Scholes I think was around I mean married fifteen hundred Jews in the whole city and we had a day school look luckily during my time when I was when I was
born to school I was the school went from first grade to sixth grade the year that I was going into seventh grade I mean it was my father did whatever he could in order to keep me in town and luckily we had a seventh grade and then the eighth day after my apartment so I did go to go what are you Shiva and was that your choice I mean did you want that yeah it was it was my choice and in there and they were they encouraged me and and I think it was it was it was not I was not pressure other boys in
the town and my head count well also going what do you Shiva is a and I realize that they be engaged in your Judaism a citizen is an investment and what you keeping I did go to Tito Medical Academy in Baltimore for eighth grade and then a knife through high school of was in their original urban uncle college and again pre-college program also in Baltimore as well growing up was was wonderful in your photos we had active synagogue my parents they just were engagement and instead of got a life in Jewish life and our grab by his were or was truly Mike my heroes that
my teacher of the day school which the rabbi of the synagogue was Mikey Rosen and I realized at a young age that here's some she be educated people that brought a love Judaism to a small local town Virginia that was my that was my passion I really wanted to emulate that and I even fulfill my my my wish was to go back to the south to teach Torah and I went to Charleston for five eight five years on Dallas for four years and and going above the Mason Dixon Dixon line that's a little difficult for me some more although I have two of my kids
live openly or presently and and I disobey it's a different world a different different planet yeah for sure so tell me what we're holidays like young toven holidays were wonderful I remember shot us with Shabbos every week I'm gonna walk to walk to show you made me get it right to show before before Shabbos war began and then walk home I remember having us so go ever having Pesach savers with my cousins my aunt Henrietta she passed away at a young age and her Forge daughters and my sister and I were like one strong group it was really close down that's great so we're still
very close with my four cousins and paste up what we would all get together and my mother would encourage me what you did make sure you have something to say at the Seder you know it was wonderful I remember grinding the the frame deep down there were strata shouldn't wander the porch and crime I remember the smells of gefilte fish being made I remember my my maid Virginia got god bless her she's still living we have been I could still been in contact with her and my the main thing we had and she would make Southern Fried Chicken every every Erev Shabbos and we would
have attained a couple she made the best botanical click green beans and and there was n csy in our hometown as well which is a reasonably good program and that that infused a lot of rural into our spirit into our family and to the end to the number of families that were still work kept to being caged and their Judaism and many of the people that had in his why even today score are leaders and there are communities so Miami New York still still are part of the Newport News legacy that's nice that's nice to know haven't your family was keeping kosher difficult it's interesting
and a new port of Virginia when I was a child there were two kosher butchers in town two kosher butchers on the end and then over the years that does you think could not support both - both of lemon and and my parents would they would come visit me up in Baltimore they would call them butcher up and said he'd like to have him and Carol Ann didn't have it frozen because that we could bring it back now and I think there was poultry they can still get in my Newport News yeah and when I yeah so it was it was very very special I
mean it was that difficult just and because I grew up in Newport News not where it wasn't the kind of thing was difficult never I never never I never knew I never knew to go out to eat it was never and then even anytime I've been out to eat it with some it was a novel idea it was difficult for me to understand even when we first had a kosher restaurant here in Dallas decos that was the one the first kosher restaurants here in town I think my my my backside enjoyed it more than my mouth to say that I sat down in the Detroit
avail in my hometown there was uh I remember the so that's where we would had the last day of Sukkot the the the mohel in the show height Reverend Fisher would give a talk into talking addition I had no idea what he was talking about but I just sat and I was I was mesmerized but what he would what the way he was talking did another one who didn't understand the language but I was a young child he was mind low and it was the moral of the community of it and then he was older older man at that time and when I learned to
become a mo well I'm when I was down in Miami he had already passed away when I was around 21 22 years old I called his called his son and asked him could I like to claim my inheritance from your father and he thought for a second he says you're right David you couldn't even have him so I have Mike Mike Moyles bris - I've used it on family members on that huh and then I had a bris and years ago in Sherman Texas and the father was from a ham town and I didn't realize that he was from you produce at the same or
let up as I did and I think the brick that were taken that cherishes - because it entered me into the Brisson and I cleaned it up and I use it over my little boy who was around 30 years old now that's great that's a great story did your parents belong to you belongs to NCS why other than the show did your parents belong to Jewish organizations I think in Duplin is that might have been the mighty there might have been a Hadassah chapter in my hometown I think my mother was somewhat involved in that immense club of the show that ladies auxilary I remember
the ladies auxilary of adechevron synagogue that was name there are shown as gesture and synagogue that the woman's the woman's at the women's group called it the lady's office early they made it at a point that any child that wanted to go to National Convention they would go for free so the money's of the way rate raised to the years we're getting towards the kids to go away to dance esy National Convention up in the Catskill Mountains they remember a bit of the show they had get-togethers and remember I remember a day in my life where I did not go to show going at the
neutronium and every single day I don't remember not going to show it some day I was during the week the day's the day's was located in the show building right and it was that was so you graduated from Henrietta courser Hebrew Academy in my hometown which I know that today school which was named after my aunt Henrietta and we had a cursory Ebert Academy Sheehan passed away and she was she was passionately passionately Jewish and the school was named after her here's name was called the tight water that part of the country the hands and Newport News Norfolk area the Tidewater area for JM fishing
was called the Tidewater Hebrew Academy I think and then changed his neck to the Henrietta curse a Hebrew Academy how lovely it was and my cousin's went there we'll look at all that the eldest did not she they sent her away to Norfolk she was like six years six years old gone on a public bus to go to a school and she was a child she was a problem on the first to go witty the witty is Shiva go to a day school and she was six years old it was it was lovely that they graduated for they he anyway Penn we had to curse
a keeper Academy in 1968-69 and then goodra and 69 I went to TA in Baltimore for a year and then decided to go didn't air Israel which is I think more passionately to the right of duty of what ta had to offer and I was there for four years and then I studied graduated high school and 70 five seventy four seventy seventy four I did I went to was studied in Israel for a year and I came back and I went to the time of the University of Florida for close to four years what universe atomic Tommy Duke University that was the achieve of program
that nothing to Miami Dade Community College and also went to Barry University and that time was called dairy colleges how have you found I mean you've certainly been here such a long time and you've worked in several communities small in Charleston Miami very little very little and we here in Dallas which has had tremendous growth in the last thirty plus years and what's the common thread do you think of your life and your work the it has to do with me is it personally my my personal growth through the growing up there in these years as well as the growth of the community when I
first left Evo and after a short time in Cleveland where my eldest son was born I was on a fellowship there and the yeshiva I was studying to become a show getting more experience as a mo out there and that was and I think I still have that God passionate about the work that I do I had a charge I had my batteries were charged us that they still are charge where I where I want to engage myself in it into a community I was in Virginia and my rabbi said I said where my heroes and I wanted to him to take that take take
that torch to the next generation when I was in Charleston I was like younger and I was I and I love my my community of Charleston I love my people of Charleston I'd love for my students of Charleston and and I still am very close with many of my students I mean I I belong to there I want to their weddings I would have done their bristles on their kids I I'm still very engaged in their life and it was a time because for myself it was it was an expression of my own involvement in the community and it brought me a wonderful amount of
sea-cook which means satisfaction to be part of the community my students were had a certain thing certain grace about them in Charleston very southern leyte seven Journal Jarvis was coming to Dallas let me for me yeah before you get there tell me how and where you met your wife we met in in New York I was visiting a cousin of mine my eldest cousin in New York it might be called me up and he says I know somebody that knows somebody which be interested in going out because he I was he needed that I was growing up that was time for me to maybe to
to find out a smoke match in you know somebody that knew somebody and that's how it isn't right you know let everybody else do all the the difficult work to see if we have that or compatible now we get together to see if we have chemistry so we met up in New York once so kiss vacation I would I think was in 78 and we had both well only had I told her about my my direction what I wanted to do and it was she engaged in that is she ditches this is that that is this the type of person that she would like to
spend the rest of her life with and we've done this pattern we were in Charleston it was difficult for her even though she said I'll go I'll go without that's what I want to do it was she was from Cleveland Ohio and it was different it was somewhat difficult I mean I was willing to go to Antarctica I mean I wanted to teach Torah I wanted to be engaged in the Jewish community and so having a large Jewish community was not it was not important at all I wanted a small community I wanted to make a difference I mean that just to be one of
many rabbis was this was niacin and but at that time of my life I wanted to I wanted to do more right right that makes sense okay so Dallas event happened to Dallas and so as I said when I was younger it's going to be in Charleston there was a different if I put on the scale Charleston to Dallas five years of Charleston 3232 almost 33 years in Dallas they they equal to they equal in many levels but as far as as far as longevity in time Dallas obviously was greater as when Gallup Charleston had his head his place in Dallas has this place and
they're both that were equally been very very important to me to my to my development and the maturity as as a young Jew what prompted the move here I did not want to leave Charleston I wanted to be there because I was very much engaged I everything that I've learned that I learned I applied to my community I learned to become a shell theta2 disciplinary animals i was the last show don't go down a history i was the last show cane in Augusta Georgia candidates for the rabbi and the principal understood there was a public need and he watched my classes while I went there
once every three weeks to slaughter most of 25 animals and they hope that the beef went to of gussto as well as Savannah I invited the rabbi from a Savannah Georgia by beg Rosenberg addresses all he came then and watch me shaft and I was in touch with Rob I agree by the Memphis it was a great it was a wonderful experience and through one of my times of shifting in Augusta and a young family had a baby boy in Augusta and we were running the slaughtering day was gonna be on a Wednesday but the person will be on Tuesday so a member of rearranging
my schedule with a slaughterhouse that said I had a bris one Tuesday let me do the bristan right after the Bristol come to the slaughterhouse and that boy you know from dispersed in Augusta Georgia I been in contact with them so he's already close to thirty seven years old he lives and he lives in Cleveland his father was in the was a medical school in Augusta Georgia and I visit him I my eldest son lives in Cleveland now so I make it a point to check tank with my boys it's nice to go there so you weren't looking to leave Charles yes look what I
wasn't very good I was not looking to leave Charleston the school was under enormous amount of pressure the 85% of the school was coming from not from the Rochelle and the Thistle congregation which was the Orthodox congregation 85% of the day school is coming from the conservative from reform and unaffiliated Jews and pressure was put on the and the principal and the rabbi of the congregation changes need to be made in order to accommodate what we like so they brought in Israeli leasing from which was a different culture and I'll I don't I don't think there was an I can't believe there was anything that
I personally did that brought about my my need to move but my contract was not renewed renewed because they had pressure from the outside and they they were going to who they were going to lose our school why do you suppose I know that happens certainly happened here as well people who are not particularly observant or even engaged who send their kids to day school in Charleston at that time why you suppose that happened demographics I think that just the the conservative and reform conservative generally with the that's way it's been in America ever since you got the United States uh nobody families that came
over from the old country were more observable engagement of Judaism partly so the golden of Medina coming to the United States on their Jewish observance was did not was in the bag was in the back back burner right and making a living and in assimilating into American culture was was paramount this way if we became more like the Americans they would accept us that's my observation and yet people still wanted to send their kids wanted just kids today I have something that and that's way does he need to this very day in 2017 I think families or someone engaged in their their people with their
kids something like zero but they know them to have they know how to light a Hanukkah candle to send a song to know how to to engage in that Passover Seder but after first second third grade many many of those children will go to the waste there that I they're not they don't go back to the day's holes right if you're if you're engaged and you think that Jewish education is important for for your children to people do it no matter what so we started looking so I just try to start looking exactly I started looking at what I interviewed and I interviewed in Memphis
Tennessee I want to stay in this in the south and as the Memphis was Phoenix Santa Barbara California and maybe this is private going to Charleston and I get into two different reports and I think we blurred but that was it was primarily it was Phoenix it was gonna be it was a Memphis in Dallas I got it I got an interview I got a phone interview from Calgary Ontario Calgary Alberta they wanted to hire they need to derive I did it they did it ammo welded into the shell fake and they offered they often said Robert look we did what we offer you rang
in quoting them what we offer you to bring you to a Calgary's I thought for a second well Nevada Florida that maybe helped this I think my friendly I said I interested in coming up to good accounting Canada so I came to interview two Charlson then came for Shabbos and my wife and I came for Chavez was it was wonderful but just think it was like it was like David Shaw from Newport News coming into Charleston it's a little older and and I had some some education about early flight in my back pockets where I didn't I couldn't share that with others and in what
year did you come to it Keith I'm sorry so I came up sorry Kevin Charleston the net from Charleston the king came to Dallas I came to beg your pardon that so I came after Charleston that had a man who flew Charleston come to Dallas in the summer of 84 and I came here because I came for it I didn't take home I came for a say I didn't come for the school was already over it robbed by the league tag it was the principal at that time was out of a penis he was looking through resumes yeah and I knew someone that was in
Dallas that I had been any sheep with him in Israel I call this his clerk charnot rabbi charmer he was in Dallas at that time I said do you know if the day schools looking for somebody says I called David up they would leave to probably pick up you might have somebody you might have a position for you know I know these living so I called muffin and I had a wonderful conversation and I came in just to look at the community that the school year was over with but he was he was trying to find somebody and I I might might it was is
that I want to stay only if you're hiring me I want to stay until the Messiah comes I have no desire of moving around I want to be part of it criminally be engaged in community he says David if you do a good job today it's not that fortunately I taught him to keep it for four years from 84 to 88 and then that's working with the body's natural system what changes have you seen in the Dallas community in the Dallas Jewish community over your 32 plus the numbers obviously when I first came here there were maybe 2025 Sabbath deserving families here there was a
note there were no eateries in town the only place to get the kosher of meat was rifleman there was kosher bakery in town Chrysler's there's good to you known places to get kosher food and the the observa community was was the second fiddle to any any part of Jewish life here over the years I think traditional Judaism as has a voice now at first we the the traditional community was was as I say second fiddle had no and no voice at all I think the the strength within within the Orthodox community traditional human being engaging community I think I think the ones that it worked
or or more observant probably more are more engaged in their Judaism judgmental of it but it seems of those people that are that are engaged in to push your kosher living Shabbos living yom tov living their more engaging the their the numbers are stronger than ever before there's probably more Jews in Dallas than I've ever been in the history of the Dallas community I came in there in the summer of 84 the Federation gave us the number as twenty six thousand Jews I think there's at least sixty five to seventy thousand Jews and many many of that seventy thousand are not affiliated just we just
they believe there's there's a five thousand or so that are there Jew that are that did not call the navigation in Jewish life at all so the numbers are stronger the education I think has become Jewish education has become a very important aspect of Jewish life as and every city is the same as the names have been changed and so when we when I came here in this summer of 84 Jewish life was made up of the the three congregations and the JCC and that was that was Jewish life and I think they're more there are definitely more and institutions that are teaching more than
doing more outreach for as many many Jews that are becoming more engaged in their Judaism whether observance or study many were those the sisters are just disappearing so and I da and it reeled and I think even the the established Jewish community that is not really engaged in Jewish tradition realized that that Jewish education is very very important so what do you attribute the significant increase in the traditional community is it outreach is this I think it's it's a hospitality it is a number of things I think many young couples that are coming from the the North that are observant or realize that there's there's
the economy is good here and the and the weather is good as - as far as as far as Jews that are part of the Jewish community that are not better they realize that there's something there's something too with Jewish education that has value it has has significance to be educated in your faith and and and there are those that become educated that actually engaged in Jewish and actually observe and observe along with their little study so with you know I don't think any any of the outreach programs in the Dallas community or in posing but I think they're exposing what you use in is
and and whether it's Habad or data or any other congregations outreach is very important tell me about your children or any children that you have that yes Yeah right we're blessed with five children my eldest was born in Cleveland Ohio and it's 78 and he throughout his life he went here there and everywhere they went back to Cleveland that's where he and his wife and his four children living now he was educated to keep academe all my true language education at Kiba he was the first class of Jaffa Academy when it was looking in the back with Jason back with JCCC and it gave the
campaign every back there the universe here in a line describe collage and then for 10th grade Evy we went to yeshiva and Chicago to Skokie yeshiva he was there for a total of around four five years only six years then and then he was in Israel and he I suggested he go to Miami to bunk where I thought it with my Rebbe and he had a wonderful year couple years as being single and then got married and learning a Colo there and he got involved in many things real estate and Jewish you know in the old hm industry and that's that's what he is in
now he's he's a director of video of an old age I'm not Jewish of the old a gentleman in Cleveland Ohio he's married to a wonderful young woman like me she was all the time my daughter-in-law my we talk all the time so he's maybe she's from Cleveland and they have four children a girl and three boys and that they're engaged in their their Jewish life quite absurd enough that my eldest daughter with five children boy you're a boy or a boy my eldest daughter Sarah she and her husband live in Potomac Maryland and they have three children and we just celebrated my my tell
their eldest child was bar Mitzvahed last Shabbos and he and his father did an enormous amount of studying and of staying all the mission on all those six waters of the mission honor and they were born Aaron Paul and their Jewish community my daughter's a nurse my son what works for Deloitte and they go to the kids go to the Hebrew Academy in Greater Washington and my middle son he's he's in business I don't know exactly what he's doing but he's is he's doing quite well I think and his wife is an accountant and they have they have oppressively two girls and a boy and
then my youngest daughter she live from Richmond Virginia she was educated all my kids as I said we had Kiba all my kids went to Yahoo no keep the one for one year summer went for she graduated from E out all the other other kids he graduated from the Ahtna and then they started in Israel and my youngest daughter has one daughter she's married to a young man from Richmond his family's from Richmond and they have one daughter and my son my youngest son for growth he went to went to Akita Yaya and they started in Israel for two years and he is he has
two little boys yes we have 13 tonight o hara and Mazel Tov thank you and I told the kids I want hi before I leave yeah but my order get busy yeah so we're about out of time and I guess the last question I would ask him you talked about role models that you have growing up you've talked about your family looking into the future your grandchildren seeing this video the next generation what would you want them to know what what important message would you pass along be engaged be engaged in your life and it is a get expression does his calm sanera everything's and
that's the answer that's the that's the mass love that's the ill of this this these years of America and Jews and time at once if you know everything this coin smears everything everything is do me I find if I'm entitled I'm a title it may give me gimme gimme not be engaged be a giver the idea I try to be religious I would like to be more religious and observant that's what I want to do I want to be more religious and observant and I realize that to be created but supplemental kinland the image of God means to be a giver and I could tell
that that I'm 62 almost I think so so I'm gonna be this month I realize that I get such satisfaction of being engaged in my community of teaching we have a mess brookey we study with and I am growing religiously I mean I'm engaged and I did you can't put a price tag on any of those so be just like I just love learning now that I've ever had I love learning with people I love I've loved working for the body-conscious I love being a mo L I love being in contact with my bris boys it means the world to me so if you look
back in your life and you say what really made a difference to you it would be being engaged you gain so much more in return so if you just if you're just a taker you know you have no value in you that it's not there's nothing of substance there when people you know go to it when you go to any of [ __ ] a house and you say well let me know what I can do for you when you leave s that's insulting to me I mean it really bothers might hear that call me when you need me that's that's not right yeah tomorrow I'm gonna
bring you dinner don't next week I'm gonna come and visit you be engaged I think it's most important thing thank you this has been so interesting if you've known you all these years but really not know anything about your background except and it sounds like you've still got that Virginia connection and in Cleveland as well so maybe one of your grandchildren will end up in Charleston and I mean that could be the next place thank you very much for doing this we have thrilled to have your story and have a one that you have had a wonderful life and I get you should live to
120 when I continue thank you you too thanks so much you