Rachel Utay
Rachel was born in Houston on February 2, 1915, the youngest child of Max Kaplan (born Laser Nechel) and Frieda Kaplan, who were first cousins married in Europe near Warsaw. Her father and grandfather came to America through the port of Galveston around 1902, learning tailoring on the voyage, while her mother followed with baby Moishe by traveling as a member of the Dow family. The family prospered as tailors in Houston, moved briefly to Shreveport, and returned to Houston, where a growing extended family, including her uncle Cantor Reuben Kaplan, gathered. After her father died when she was very young, her widowed mother ran a grocery store while Rachel was raised next door by her beloved grandparents.
Rachel loved school in Houston, served as a first-grade interpreter for immigrant children, and studied art, even being told by a principal she might become governor of Texas. She recalled Lyndon B. Johnson as her public speaking and debate teacher at Sam Houston High School. Her hopes for college and art study in New York gave way to helping her ailing mother and working for her uncle Oscar's department store. Through Young Judea, she began visiting Dallas, where her uncle had become cantor at Sherith Israel, and there she met Hyman Utay, a member of a Dallas family. They married in Houston on March 31, 1935.
In Dallas the Utays lived in South Dallas Jewish neighborhoods, raising three children, Pearl, Paul, and Ruben, and insisting each receive a strong Hebrew education. Rachel was active in PTA, hosting Passover seder luncheons to teach teachers about Judaism, and the family followed Sherith Israel when it moved to North Dallas, settling in their Royal Lane home in 1954. Hyman worked in roofing and real estate and served as Brotherhood president, while Rachel later ran a Mexican gift shop, Mexican Villa, in the downtown 500 building for about ten years until they retired in 1979. She remembered the 1951 car accident that killed her uncle Cantor Kaplan and the many rabbis and cantors of Sherith Israel over the decades.
Full Transcript
Today is Monday, May 27, 1991. I'm Rose Biederman with the Dallas Jewish Historical Society, and I'm going to be interviewing Rachel Kaplan Uteh in her home at 6722 Royal Lane in Dallas, Texas. Rachel, I want to thank you so much for letting me come and visit with you today and talk with you. This is an oral history project that is conducted jointly with the Dallas Jewish Historical Society and the National Council of Jewish Women. Rachel, first of all, I'm going to ask you if you'll tell me your name and where you were born. My name is Rachel Kaplan Mute, and I was born in Houston, Texas, February the 2nd, 1915.
What are...did you have any brothers or sisters? I was the youngest of four. My brother Maurice was 12. Twelve years old, right. My sister Jeanette, sister Bessie, and I was a baby. And would you tell me your parents' name? My father's name was Laser Nechel in Europe. And when he came to Houston, he changed it to Max for business reasons. It's easier to pronounce. Max Kaplan. And your mother? My mother's name was Frieda Kaplan. They were first cousins. And they both came from? Lups, Russia, on the border of Poland and Lithuania and Russia. Okay. That's the way they explained it to me. Yeah. I was never there.
Right. Do you know how they happened to come? Were they married in Europe or were they married here? Oh, they were married in Europe. They were married in Europe. Oh, okay. She was 16 and he was 18. Oh, well. They were madly in love with each other. He had typhus as a youngster when there was a big epidemic there. Oh really People were really dying They had no antibiotics had no way to cure it And she was working at age 12 in Warsaw Poland She went on a horse and wagon to work got a ride to the store where she worked Now, was the town close to Warsaw?
Evidently it was within horse and wagon distance. You mean she would go back and forth? She went back and forth and came home on the weekends for the show. Oh, I see. During the week she lived there with the people who owned the store. What kind of a store? It was a grocery store, general merchandise, or whatever you call it in those days. Uh-huh. And she was 12 and she needed the help out. She was the oldest of six children and she needed the help. And she'd earn a few, what do you call them, cup-a-kits? I don't know if I say anything, but say cup-a-kits.
Uh-huh. And bring it home. and she learned from the gypsies how to make teas out of herbs how to make ink out of plants how to weigh on a scale everything should be on the red line and I to the right or to the left you should give them a honest weight she learned how to wait on customers and she became a young business lady at age 12. Well now you're saying the gypsies taught her these things did she work for gypsies? No, they would come into the store and trade. And she was very friendly and always smiling and full of jokes and she learned a lot from them.
Do you know who she worked for? Was it a relative? No, no, it was not a relative. You don't know how she got that job? No, no. But you know she worked in the store. Right, right. And how long did she work? Well, until she became, first when she married my daddy, she was 16. See, when he was suffering from typhus, this high fever, she helped cure him with these teas. Oh my goodness. She would come home on the Shabbat and nurse him and he got well. Sounds like a movie. Yeah, 18 years old. And then they realized that they were in love. They couldn't wait to see each other over the weekend.
And she said she couldn't wait. She almost wrote down everything that she was going to tell him that transpired during the week because she would confide in him and he would confide in her And he was a student of the mystics And he would explain to her all about the mystics and kabbalah so he was yeshiva yeshiva about her he wanted to i guess i guess he would study for the rest of his life if she would work in that grocery store and support him i think i imagine that's what a lot of them did in those days and he was into mysticism yes was he has and he explained to her all the different rules and regulations and she would bring home all the news that happened in the big city of Warsaw and they got very close.
Sounds like a perfect match. Yeah they decided to get married. She was 16 and he was 18. And do you know what year they they were married? No. But they were married in loops? Loops. American looks and she came pregnant and he came to America with my grandfather. Wait a minute, wait a minute, he left her? He left her with my puppy and Zadie and sisters and brothers and my Zadie decided it's time to go to America with a neighbor who lived across the street. Do you know what year that was? It was 1902. Oh my. Okay. Okay. My lady heard that the neighbor across the street, Mr.
Ruben Dovidovich, Ruben Dovidovich, was coming to America. He was a master tailor in Warsaw. And my grandfather, I guess he was afraid of them being conscripted to the army then. After all, my uncle Oscar was a teenager. My father was a teenager, 18 years old. And he decided it's time to make a fresh start. And he, the three of them came with Mr. Rubendow, Dabadovich, excuse me, on the ship to the port of Galveston. Do you know why they came through Galveston? No. Okay. I had no idea. So they had no relatives here? No. They just came for opportunity. opportunity because I really think they were running away from the army I really think so many of them did of course yeah okay two teenage sons right and the Cantor who was the oldest of his sons Cantor Reuben Kaplan Cantor Kaplan from Sheriff Israel that was my grandfather oldest son I see He was traveling around the countryside teaching boys and what they used to call as old as Esenteg.
He would live with a family for weeks at a time while he taught their children Hebrew and Chazanish, and how to make brahs and how to sing, and he would go from shtephel to shtephel. Now would you repeat that phrase again? Essen? Essen Tag. I spell it E-S-S-E-N. Which means eating or? Teg. Eating days. He lived with the family like a tutor. Uh-huh. But they called it Essen Tag. Okay. He was their tutor and he taught young boys to sing. He organized choirs. He was just a youngster himself, a teenager. So he was not at home at the time. why he didn't come to America with me because he was two years younger than my mother so he how did he learn he learned from different cantors in the countryside okay okay he's reading written up in that book of redemption of the names yes teachers and all okay that's all i know anyhow they came on the ship my grandfather my father and uncle oscar kaplan when they came to america to the port of galliston the immigration officers changed their name no more kapashevsky you're going to be instead of schmuel kapashevsky you're going to be samuel kaplan oscar his name was usher you will be oscar
kaplan and laser meho you will be max count and mr dad david david you will be ruben dow dow dow dow do rubin down he was the organizer of one of the shows in houston he founded the the summit show mr rubin down so they came to america meanwhile on the ship mr dow taught my father how to cut and snip and sew uh-huh so that when he got They came into Galveston and Rabbi Cohen met them at the ship and he gave them the name of a boarding house in Houston where they could rent cots or rooms or whatever and live and learn how
to become citizens of the United States. My daddy learned how to cut and sew, so he and Mr. Dow went and got a job in a tailor shop. In Houston? In Houston. I don't know how they arrived in Houston from Galveston. I don't know if they went by horse and wagon or whether they went on a train. I have a feeling they went on a train. Well, it's possible. I have that feeling. I never did question them. Now I'm beginning to think about it. Right. and my grandfather was given a basket to put over his wrist and go buy bananas at the farmers market go from house to house and sell bananas really he knew no words of English all he knew was Luke ten cents they taught him with the boarding house look tense and my uncle Oscar did likewise but my My father and Mr.
Dad went to work in a tailor shop. So they were coming up in the world. Right. They had a trade. Yeah. And from there they worked themselves out. So when did he send for your mother? My mother, he had to wait quite some time to get enough money. When she came, my brother was six months old already. So evidently he was gone at least a year from now. And her entry into the United States, if they heard about it, they'd send her back right now. Why? What happened? Well, she had this baby, Moeshe, the oldest, my brother. And he was six months old, and she was lonesome for her husband, Max.
So she heard that Mr. Dow was sending for Mrs. Dow and the children to come to America. and she begged and pleaded Ms. Dow to please take her as her daughter she said well what about the baby you can take the baby too so she went as Mrs. Dow's oldest child Mrs. Dow had four kids of her own Harry Dow who was a very prominent lawyer in Houston Lena Lena Dow Rose Dow and Helen Dow Those were the real Dow children. Yeah, the WW children. Okay. But they were Dows now because their names have been changed. Right, right. But also... But also Freda Dow and Moishya Dow my brother who was six months old And your mother And the mother And she said it took 27 days to cross the Atlantic Ocean and she would hide under a tarpaulin to feed the baby She didn't let him cry.
Because if he cried, Mrs. Dow couldn't feed him. And she was afraid if the immigration officers found her, they would send her back to the house. And she wanted to see her max, her milk. so they came to galveston i still don't i still don't know how they arrived from galveston to houston but they made it they made it and what year was that when your mother came well it must have been 04 because because adk i had a feeling it was 04 i can look up my brother's citizenship paper that sounds about right yeah that's about right you just have to believe all this because I wasn't there well and I'm the youngest and I'm only going by what the stories right it's my mother my buddy and I say he told me so your mother and father reunited and Houston and and he did very well as a tailor is that right he became very well known and they had another little girl in Houston, my sister Jeanette, and then he heard that there was a tailor shop selling out in Shreveport, Louisiana and it meant he could have his own business.
So he took his two children and his wife and they moved to Shreveport. I don't know how many years they were there but they made a lot of good friends and my mother wanted to be back home in Houston with all of her because meanwhile my grandmother had come over with the other teenage children. I see. She had two daughters and a son that remained in Europe with her. One of the daughters used to make speeches on the corner, socialist speakers, and they used to run her almost into the jail and Bubby would have to go... In Houston? No, in Europe. In Europe. Oh really?
To Warsaw. She was a socialist yes yes she was really a socialist and my grandmother my grandfather was in america she'd have to run she knew nothing about law or procedures or government but she ran and brought her home she said one time she pawned her life there in order to get her out oh my goodness how interested oh the daring Kids And the Cantor met Rose Fabischewitz in one of these little temples where he was traveling around with his choirs, and they came in about 1907, I believe. Cantor Kaplan? Yeah, 1907. He came with his wife rose that he married in shalib is this in the same air general area evidently okay it was navadak i remember in shalib and all those little step like that they told me about uh-huh and he married raisler rose by the shavits and he when they came to the gallus port galliston he says my father and my brothers are here and my sister is here so what is their name he said copland So they spelled his name with a K.
K-A-P-L-A-N. He was the only one of the family whose name spelled with a K. We thought he was trying to be highfalutin on us, but really the immigration officer did it. It just happened that way. So everyone else spelled it with a C. So he became Rupert Kaplan's name. With a K. Okay. Okay. And then he came to America and then my grandmother came with other teenagers. So your whole family then settled in Houston after 1907 the whole family was yeah in Houston in Houston yes for which my grandmother and grandfather were very happy they could see all their children and enjoy watching them prosper in the in the golden the Medina you know they were very happy.
When did your family move back to Houston? I don't expect well yes I do. Were you were you were born? No I was born after they came back. After they came back. So and there was another little sister in between. Well, so you grew up in Houston. Oh yes, yes. I was born on Gillespie Street. I came out of Dr. Miller's little black satchel. Well did your father continue in being a tailor when he returned to Houston? Yes, he opened a tailor shop on on Banning Street, right across from the county courthouse. And he made all the suits for the lawyers and the judges And he even had a contract with the city to make shrouds to bury people Oh my He was prospering beautifully Is that right Real well.
He had seamstresses working for him. Uh huh. Doing real well. Uh huh. But then he became ill again. Oh. Oh. So his health went down. His health went down and they didn't know what to do. It was a bleeding ulcer where the tapas burned through his intestine. Oh my. And he died in 1960. 1960? Uh huh. I was a year and a half old. So what did your mother do with four children? Well, the family and all the friends said there's a Jewish orphan's home and you always put them in the orphan's home. Four kids? How in the world are you going to raise four kids?
She said I want to raise four kids. So she had a grocery store moved onto the lot next door to where my Bubby and Sadie lived. They moved it in the night time, you know. Cut it in half. You've seen them move things. And they set it on the corner, which is directly next door to Bubby and Sadie's house. And she opened up a grocery store. That's all she knew. She had no college education, but she had grocery store experience. Right, right. She opened a grocery store in 1916, just during World War I, you know, and the salesman would come in to her, she said, and they would say, oh, Miss Kaplan, you've got to stock up on sugar and flour because you're not going to be able to get it during the war.
So she stocked up, stocked up on everything. And lo and behold, one night someone set fire to it. Oh my, why? Well, Mama seemed to think it was the competitors around it. I don't know. I have no idea. Oh my, what a tragedy. Thank God there was no life lost. She rebuilt it. Is that right? Strong woman. Oh, she had determination. This woman was like a tiger. If anything happened to her children. Was she a tall lady? No, a little lady. She was about 5 feet 1 or 2. I don't think she was 5 feet 2. No, she was about 5 feet 1. They were all short like the Bubby except one time, Jen, she was tall.
But the cantor was short. My brothers were a little bit taller. So we lived as one big happy, I don't say happy because she had a lot of struggles. But we lived as one family. We didn't know that other families lived differently. We thought every family lives this way. This is the way it's supposed to be. Sure. A mother and a Bubby and a Zadie and sisters and a brother and uncles and Totties. And they all put in their two cents worth. Well, that sounds good. So your grandparents helped raise you then? Oh, she gave me to them. When my daddy passed away and she had the grocery store, she couldn't take care of an infant.
I was a year and a half. So she gave me to them, which was next door. And they raised me. did Bubby know how to raise a child in America? Because in Europe, it was altogether different. But anyhow, with the model watching over me and my sisters, I grew up. I'm still here. Well, I'm sure she did fine. You went to school in Houston? Did you go to public school? I went to public school, walked a mile and a half every morning. Why? Well, that was the closest school. That was the closest white school. Okay. The schools were segregated. Sure, sure. It was a mile in the car.
But I guess everyone walked. Oh, sure. Yeah. Sure. We set out at 8 o'clock, and by 8.30 we were there. Anything special happen while you were in school in Houston? Oh, I loved it. I loved school. I loved everything about it. I wanted to spend all my time there. It was wonderful. I loved the teachers. I drew a picture of the teachers the first day we were in class. And she came up to me and she said, Rachel, what are you doing? And I tried to hide it and she grabbed it out from me and I thought, oh God, she's going to kill me. She put it on the blackboard with a thumbtack.
Since then, everything went fine. And when I was little, naturally, I was short. I'm shorter now. I had a big mouth I was loud Well you had to take care of yourself When we had auditorium I was announced the programs And I remember Mr Derrickson the principal getting up one day and he said he was a tall skinny man and he said Y'all see this little girl right here? Someday she's going to be governor of Texas. That was when Ma Ferguson was governor. I couldn't wait to get home fast enough to tell Bubby and Zayi and Mama, guess what? I'm going to be governor of Texas someday.
Were they impressed? Oh, yes, definitely. Oh, good. They were very encouraging. Well, that's good. Very encouraging. Uh-huh. My Sadie had to know exactly what I was learning in school, as if he had had a Ph.D. from Harvard or Yale. And every day I'd have to relate to him what I learned. He'd say, what's this the hanky land? Uh-huh. And I'd have to tell him. He was particularly impressed with public speaking and debating when he got home. Is that right? Oh, he, you know, I guess he probably had a calling inside of him that he wanted to be something like a lawyer or defending people. He loved that.
He said, the busses, the busses, the busses, the busses, the busses, the busses, the busses, the busses, the busses, the busses, the busses, the busses, the busses, the busses, the busses. He tells me in Yiddish and I'm supposed to put it in English. Why? neglected to ask what did what was his trade in in Europe what did he do in Europe I don't know what he did in Europe I said he was about filler and he's a merchant I don't know what he said okay I have no idea okay he's never came up but then after you got tired of selling the bananas he started selling peace kids oh my person wagon uh-huh and I spent many a day on that front seat of wagon with him driving through houston streets i bet you considered that a treat it was a treat it was the only way of conveying suck how
else you got to go downtown we sat on the free head the wagon had a long bed in the back you know where you stacked his piece goods and what did he sell to just the house he went from house to house to house lbj price man what is it not lbj jay what is it price you used to sell from house to house lb price is that what his name was something like that but anyhow he went from house to house he had his regular route of customers and he kept books and they took critic They paid on credit They give him a dollar
and meanwhile they buy two dollars more And he kept his books, all in Yiddish, except for the numerals. And most of his customers were either immigrants or blacks. Oh, uh-huh. And when he would, he had his regular ride every day, he went a different direction, and made these customers, and they'd say, Mr. Sam, how much do I owe you? And he'd say, $5. Mr. Sam, I don't owe you that much. Look in the book. It was already British. But he did very well. He bought property, little windhouses, had some of them built, got rent in it every week. and didn't need anyone to help him in any way.
And he encouraged all his children to go into businesses, and he helped them find businesses. He had a good business head, without a computer, without a letting machine, but he had a great business head. I seem to recall something that you met LBJ when you were in school. He was my public speaking debate teacher at San Houston High School in 1929. He was your debate teacher? Oh. Yeah. He had just gotten out of college. He had real black thick wavy hair and he wore a pair of tweed pants every day. He couldn't afford any other pants. They needed pressing so. I sat on the front row and my feet used to kick his feet all the time because I was the shortest one.
I was on the front row. He was a great teacher. How was that? I mean how well maybe it was because he was debating but he taught you to look on both sides of the question how interesting very interesting I mean no be prejudiced or swayed one in one direction and I it was good training for us oh how interesting so I really enjoyed he only taught one year at San Houston high school then he got that job as a secretary for a congressman congressman yes I see so he went places yeah well that very interesting and I still going I going to be governor of Texas yeah okay now Now evidently Yiddish was spoken in the home but that didn affect your public speaking style No.
And when I was in the first grade, we had a lot of immigrants coming in from different parts of Europe, and they would be put in our class in the first grade, and some of them were 12 and 13 years old. And I remember the teacher saying, Rachel, do you know what this girl's trying to tell me or this boy's trying to tell me? So I'd ask them in Yiddish. And then I would translate it for the teacher. So I became an interpreter. In the first grade. In the first grade. I remember, I could just see some of them coming in scared to death, some of these 12, 13-year-old kids.
Sure. Did you go to Hebrew school in Houston? went to hebrew school to the shul in our neighborhood and this this is really funny because the rabbi was a galiziana uh-huh and my savior was a gabakete litzbach there's an old rivalry oh god is there and i never knew why anyhow it was rabbi shapiro great big fat man with a white beard like santa claus and he walked around with a yardstick and he would bop there were only two girls in class minnie shots and i was only two girls she's now minnie gerber she was minnie hoffman from waco you may know her oh i've heard of yeah she was a shask girl from houston so all her brothers she had about four or five brothers they were in the class eddie davis was the class the wilkes boys oh and they were the meanest bunch of rats you remember and he went around bopping him with this i said i'm definitely afraid of him i thought any minute he's going to hit me in the head i come home every day and as they said what is the hanky learn what did you learn less me river so i would read no mizaknit i say with an o is up with an a the lift box everything with an A.
So he said no more. From now on he's taken over my Hebrew education. Oh. No more. Even like Rabbi Shapiro's teaching. What happened when you got out of high school? What did you do then? Well, I wanted to go to college very much. I wanted to go to CIA here in Denton. So bad. College of Industrial Arts, because they had a great art program. Because I had taken art and art appreciation. I had won several scholarships to the museum in Houston when I was 12, 13, 14. In fact, I used to take two streetcars and a bus to get there for the lessons, but I went.
But my mother became very ill and my sisters were beginning to get married. Uh-huh. And that left me and Mama in the business. Oh. And she was too ill and she said, it's not fair to you. You're too young to bury yourself. It was a very bad neighborhood in the fifth ward in Houston. Uh-huh. It's not fair to you. We need to get out of this neighborhood. Oh. So we did and I went to work for my uncle Oscar. He came over with my grandfather because he had a big department store. He had a department store. So you went to work for your uncle in a department store?
Well, my aunt Rose came, his wife, who was originally a Dow. My two uncles married two sisters from the Dow family. we were so close and they didn't they didn't have time to go courting anybody right and they didn't know anybody coming they were teenagers and it was time to get married so uncle oscar went and pursued at rose who was a beautiful woman and he married her and then when uncle louis became ready for marriage he didn't know anybody so he went to see rose's younger sister lena and they married and they were very happy all of them but aunt rose came to see me her son had been living in new york with a family because he was a violin prodigy she wanted him to be another yahudah manukhin and he lived there from the time he was seven years old taking violinist violin lessons from good instructors he would have a scholarship to juillard he had one to Curtis Institute, he really did well.
And when I was graduating high school, she came and she said, I want, I think you should send Rachel to New York to study art. And my mom said, what? Send a girl to New York? Zulia for feeling that You know what that means They lead her astray Never never She said but she could have her name in lights she could be a great artist she could become famous in it I said no way. This is on the Kitten-Eus-Kachen-Aker-Kutten-Tapeli-Zup. Design on the marquee. So I remained in Houston cooking chicken soup. So I went to work for Uncle Oscar. I did his cashiering. I did his artery.
I laid out his circulars every week for the special. He had acquired a big compartment. I mean kept adding from groceries and meats shoes to dresses to hats to work clothes to what was the name of the store? Kaplan's. I see. He was in the neighborhood where Hughes Tool Company was. You know how it used to work? Uh-huh. And there was a lot of workers over there and they would buy from us. It was mostly on credit, but they were at good risk. And he developed a beautiful business. Uh-huh. Not only that, he bought a lot of property, he became Americanized, became a citizen, his wife even took him to dancing lessons.
And he was quite a civic leader there in that area. So I worked for him. And then I came here to Dallas for a young Judean conclave. So you came to Dallas due to Young Judea? Due to Young Judea. Was your uncle in Dallas? My uncle came here in 1932. This is Cantor Kaplan. Grandpa Toplitz came and got him. Saul Toplitz. He was debating. He didn't want to leave Houston because all of his family, his father and mother, were still alive. Now we're talking about Mr. Toplitz, Saul Toplitz? Saul Toplitz. who was a mocker at Sheriff Israel. Yes. And he and Grandpa talked about it.
Okay. And he wanted, Sheriff Israel evidently needed a cantor. Well, Reverend Fromm was getting older and he wanted to retire. And they needed a cantor. And they had heard so much about him, Cantor Kaplan, that they wanted to woo him away from Houston. So he debated, my grandmother had a fit, she said, you going to the end of the world again I didn see you for so many years as a child and now I gonna lose you again She thought you never see him again And he couldn decide whether he wanted to make that move It was a big move sure And Mr. Topless, Saul Topless, took one of his big trucks and two of his strong men.
They drove to Houston. They took all of Cantor Kaplan's furniture out of his two-story house and moved into Dallas. so when so he had to follow he was right by the follow so when i came for the young judean meeting naturally i called him up i said i'm going to come for a young judean three-day conclave can i stay and they said oh bow please please please well it was at the time that their son was very ill the oldest son oh okay and they had gone to um baltimore to john hopkins hospital again but the two daughters their two daughters and their little kids were here okay staying at the house and instead of staying three days i stayed six weeks why you like
to hear the his two daughters wanted me because i brought lactor into the house i brought all the young judeans came over all the young people came over to visit now where were the where was this house on the corner of south boulevard in harwood was this a house provided by the shul no he paid rent he oh mr weiner they rented it from yeah mr weiner on the corner of harwood and south south boulevard okay corner from the temple of manuel all right and the shul of sheriff israel at the time was at park and eakin right okay and we walked the 20 blocks
to and from his house to the shul so i stayed for six weeks and then i went back and went to work again at uncle oscar's and then i met him i kept meeting more kids here my age and i was having a time of my life i was paying that gray had not greyhound bus it was another bus at the time six dollars round trip almost every few weekends to come to come here i was really just enjoying myself in a beautiful environment a religious environment which is what my family really wanted me to remain in and on one of the trips i met
my husband And his name Hyman Ute He was a twin to Oscar Ute And the Ute were a Dallas family Yes. Okay. So, when did you get married, Rachel? March the 31st, 1935, in Houston, Texas. Oh, did you get married at home? I got married in one of my tonti's houses, Aunt Winnie, the youngest tonti. had just bought a new home on Blodgett and insisted I use it. A beautiful brick house and we marched into the chuppah that was held by several of my cousins. Rabbi Tophel had just come to Houston and he performed a ceremony. My grandfather and my mother marched me into the chuppah and we got married.
and came back to Dallas. Came back to Dallas. Where was your first home in Dallas? Oh, boy, the Utea Homestead, 1500 South Pearl Street. 1500 South. How large a home was that? Well, it was a little, it looked from the outside, it looked like it was very tiny. But they had added on rooms as the Utea children got married. Grandpa and Grandma Utea added rooms on so they could all live with them. So it wound up to be a nine-room house with one bath. And it was a League of Nations street. They had every religion represented. Represented, absolutely. Spanish, Italian, German, you name it. It was on that street, Jewish.
And it was interesting, very interesting. I know there were a lot of Jewish families in that area. Oh yeah, the Schwartz's lived across the street. I call him Jake, his name is Jack now. His mother lived across the street with children. And the labels were over there. The Koch ones, they were like Jewish families. Would you say it was mostly Jewish or just a lot? I'd say half were Jewish. Okay. Was this close to Sheriff Israel? Yeah, it was about one block. You followed Gano Street one block, and you were at the show, which made it very convenient. Okay. Yeah, we lived there after several, couple of years.
The Utehs also belong to Sheriff Israel? Oh, yes, definitely. I imagine Grandpa Uteh was there from the time he came to, what, he came in 1906, I think. I think so. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah. What kind of business was Mr. Uteh in? You mean my husband or my father? Yes. No, he was unemployed. okay what what was during the depression that's true 1935 yes that was really in the middle of the year he was working for a man shop on Main Street for quite some time and when the man found out that he'd become engaged he laid him off oh because you have to give him another dollar oh I didn't mention any names no that's all right you would know what did your husband's father what business was he was he was in the gold business he would smelt and farm rain make rings out of gold he was in that wilson building on elm and ervey i think uh-huh but see he did he died just before we got married oh really and the mother had died a year before.
Oh. So I never got to meet her. So you didn't have any in-laws? No. He would have been my father to me had he lived. Uh-huh. Because we were supposed to get married in June, and he died the December before. Oh. So I get this pitiful letter from Jaime saying, Papa's gone, the house is a mess, the maid messed up all, made all the dishes tray, all the silverware is buried in the backyard and we have to get married sooner than June so we got married March 31st my mother was very reluctant to see me go and my Bubby and Sadie oh they thought I was going to the end of the world I'm Africa somewhere would you mind backtracking a minute I believe you said that there was a history of the Utah family and in the jewelry business or the the edute my husband father and his three brothers they came from a little place called mugula fedolsky which is sat in the south part of russia And this little town was well known for its artisanship making jewelry and working with wood crafts This whole shtetl was well known for this.
So when they first came, the four brothers, Ed got a job. Now, I don't know which one was where. Ed and Wolf remained in Dallas, the two brothers. The other two brothers went to Chicago because they weren't impressed with Dallas. And one of them went to work for Everett's and one of them went to work for Lynn's. Oh, uh-huh. Here in Dallas. Here in Dallas. Uh-huh. And then later on, my father-in-law went into business for himself with the gold, making the rings and designing rings and smelting gold, I guess. I don't know. I never saw it. very interesting very interesting yeah and my husband took about two dozens various jobs in order to make a living but he didn't he didn't he wasn't in that business no no he called herself the black sheep oh he didn't learn that trade or he wasn't involved he could but it never presented itself see with Oscar He remained on there.
Heime worked on Deep Elm too for different jewelry stores, but Oscar remained there and then he took up watchmaking at night. And so he stayed in the jewelry line. But Heime got out because in 1939 we moved back to Houston. Oh, you did? The same Uncle Oscar that I was working for as a single girl decided he wanted Heime to work for him and he would open up some more stores. like a Kmart you know had this big department store and he and Viggo just to come back to Houston and work for him and then gradually open more stores so we took him up on the offer we were there exactly one year 1939 to 1940 and my husband got very homesick for his family after all there were nine kids and he couldn't couldn't stand it is that right and he said I don't know anybody here they when I have to spell my name they don't even know what this funny with a u or a e or what or why he says anyone I had he
says in dallas i can walk down elm street and everybody says hi oscar well that his twin brother name and that made him feel good he said i want to go back to houston to dallas so we came back to dallas with nothing in view and that was when he uh hit morris schaefer and morris schaefer what said what are you doing and he said i'm looking for a job and he said come with me mr fuller is putting on help in the roofing business so he went to work for mr fuller and worked with marsh shaper together i see and knocked on doors and
sold people repair jobs and roof jobs and then he and marsh broke away from mr fuller and they opened their own business called atlas roofing company oh really They were partners for a number of years and they did very well. He promised my mother and my sisters that he was going to take good care of me. Right. Did you live on Pearl Street until you returned to Houston? Yes. And then when you came back to Dallas? When we came back we rented a little house on Peabody, a little duplex on Peabody and Myrtle I think you were. Peabody and Myrtle, now that's in the heart of South Dallas.
And that was a Jewish neighborhood. Right. Do you have any memories of that neighborhood? Oh yeah, it was nice. I really enjoyed it. There were neighbors all around across the street. There was Cantoreback and his family, and the Schwartz family, Sam Schwartz was across the street. They had a place on Deep Elm, and there were a lot of Jewish families. Mrs. Keller lived for it, and the Fromms lived further down. There was a lot of Jewish people. The Ricebergs were over there, Hedy and Fred. and I took the children to, children, when Pearl became four years old, I took her to United Hebrew School, which was a few blocks down Peabody, to here and say hi, come.
Well, how many children do you have? I have three. I have a daughter Pearl Friedman I have a son Paul Ute and a son Ruben Ute Ruben lives in Houston and Paul lives here in Dallas And Pearl lives in Dallas. So you had a family and you mentioned about, I assume you wanted your children to have a Hebrew education. Oh definitely, definitely. Was this under the influence of your uncle, the cantor? No, it was just within Jaime and I. We wanted them to have the best education that we could possibly afford. And with Pearl, being the oldest, she took dancing. I took her to Fair Park to Virginia South to learn dancing.
Hop on one foot, you know, and then on the other foot. Then we gave her piano lessons with Virginia France, who was over there on Pennsylvania. Wonderful teacher. And she went to Hertz High School Hebrew School every afternoon. Willie and the bus came and picked her up. and took her to Hebrew school that had four days a week. No, we wanted them to have. And then on Saturday mornings, I would wheel her, not her, but I'd wheel Paul in the stroller and pearl by the hand, and we'd go to Hebrew school on Saturday services. Where was that? At Hertz High. At Hertz High, Otama Torah.
Yeah. And that was on Peabody, wasn't it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Is there anything that you could tell about that time period about, was this what most of the Jewish people did in that area? Not most because we didn't have the attendance that we should have had. A lot of people did not believe in all this education. You mean Hebrew education? Hebrew education, right. But Pearl went to Colonial School. Jaime organized three Dad's Clubs before he even had any children. At Colonial School? One at Colonial, one at Brown, and one at Forest. Oh my. And then he worked in the Central Dad's Club. He was a great worker.
And then I became interested when Pearl started school in 46, I became interested in PTA and it was Downhill and I know I brought in every Jewish woman I could in that area and before you know it we had a board of 15 Jewish women and two Gentiles and every Pesach during the week I would have the principal from the school who didn't know too much about Judaism and most of the teachers who could get away and I set a beautiful Pesach Seder table for luncheon. Where? In my home. Oh and they would come to your home. They would come to my house at noon for lunch.
For lunch. And we educated them as to what Jewish children are going through during Passover. How we eat and what we do and their prayers and the wine. They were not drunkards. We really educated those teachers. How interesting. We did it every year and you did it the whole week of passover no no just one time you would set a date we'd ask the principal when could which day would he like to come for lunch and how many teachers could get off at that hour because they were all taking the same lunch right right and i set a table just the same as we would have on a seder and i fed them good and boy we fed them judaism I'm not kidding well that's very interesting because the principal knew nothing nothing about the Jewish he would say oh god another Jewish holiday all
the kids are going to be absent again he'd call us up and say now what must I do and we had him train so do you feel that you pretty much celebrated the same way as when you were living with your at home with your grandparents and your mother you kept up all the traditions more so more so more so it's usually the other way no more so because I modernized it as much as I could to make it interesting for the children and I expanded on it I improved on it I improved on the meals I improved on I mean it made it more
luxurious let's put it that way because my grandmother was very primitive very simple very simple in fact if you didn't get there you didn't get a chair but my brother always got chair next to my Zadie because he was old as grandchild but we never got anything to eat No I did improve on it I really did I mean we buy you know what today a Pesach Seder is your linens your dishes your silver your crystal And those days, Bubby had no crystal. She just had the same set of silver that she'd take out in the backyard and she'd polish and bring it back in the house.
It was different. Well, it was a different time period, people. But I wanted my children to observe. I wanted them to know. Now, if they stuck to it, fine. If they didn't, it's their hard luck. But I think they all learned enough to teach their children. I feel like they got the education. Did you encounter any anti-Semitism when you were working with the schools? and with the teachers and the PTA? There were some. There were some. Was it strong enough to really impede anything? Or it was just sort of... We had some that we had to really take to task and educate. Is that right?
Give them a little better education into what Jewish children, their actions. But not too much. Not too much. And when I went to school in Houston, there was no such word as anti-Semitism. Because everybody was an immigrant from another country. Everybody was schooled. So it was different. I'd never encountered it. They knew we were Jewish and we knew they were Christian or whatever they were, whatever religion they were, and we respected them and they respected us. But we lived in this neighborhood as a child when my mother had the grocery store. and it was mostly blacks after a while because the people who bettered themselves moved to better neighborhoods, more influential neighborhoods, and only the people who had the merchants who had stores would come and do their business and then go back to another neighborhood.
And the black people knew that my mother was a widow, and knew she was alone with three girls in my house, and when we'd walk two blocks to the streetcar, They would watch us. They'd all get out on their front porches and say, there goes the widow's children, watch them Is that right No harm should come And we lived in some of them were pretty rough There was a time they said it was just as rough as the mafia Well I don know It was rough And Mama would say, call the police, and I'd call the police and say, Do you want to come down to the police station and swear out a warrant in the middle of the night?
I said, No. First of all, we had no car. How would I get there? So they never showed up. We had no protection. But they never harmed us. They never broke in. They never burglarized. I mean, we slept with the doors and the windows wide open. And here on Pearl Street, we slept with the front door wide open because we had no air conditioning. A lot of times we slept on the front porch on the porch swing. It was not as good as today. We were much safer. But Haini and I both insisted that the kids have a good Hebrew education, and the other education with it, but they should know.
They want to follow it, up to them. When you moved from Peabody and Myrtle, where did you live? We moved into my sister Lena Schwartz's house on Home Street. Your sister? sister sister-in-law oh sister sister Lena Lena and Aaron Schwartz on home street and they were moving to Lakewood and we needed a larger house that was Jaime's sister yeah married to Aaron Schwartz right I didn't know that yeah well you know he had five sisters and three brothers yeah okay so you moved into that house oh and it was luxurious oh it was so big and roomy it was wonderful everything was wonderful you know when you're young everything is wonderful well i know at some point you moved to south boulevard well and then we had this chance to buy these two houses on peabody uh mr fishel i don't even remember what his first name was owned one house facing peabody and one the house facing Latimer.
But he wanted to sell them as a package deal, not because they were like on one lot. I understand Well Ostendora only had one child at the time and they said that be perfect for us the little house facing Latimer And I said well I had two so I will take the corner house the large one And we lived side by side, and it was wonderful. Oh, how nice. We had a great time on Peabody. And it was just two blocks from the original duplex that we lived in when we first came from Houston in 1940. So we still knew a lot of the neighbors over there.
Right. Well, you've always lived in a Jewish neighborhood then. Yes, ma'am. And when the shul moved to North Dallas, we came with it. You followed the shul. We came with it, absolutely. Uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah. I always followed the shul. Your uncle, you said when he came to Dallas, lived in a house on South Boulevard in Harwood. I know he also or later at some point lived on South Boulevard. Well he bought Rabbi Lefkowitz's house at 2415. Now the shul didn't provide the house. No he bought it. He had to provide his own housing. He bought it because somebody said you need to have an equity in something.
Okay. You're paying rent all these years. He had been here about 17, 18 years and they said you should have an equity. I guess some business people advised him. And this house is, oh, it would be nice to have Rabbi Lefkowitz's beautiful home. It was a beautiful home. So he bought it for $15,000. Do you remember what year he moved into that house? Well, if you don't, it's all right. I was just curious when Rabbi Lefkowitz left it. I can add it up on some of the things. Well, that's okay. So he moved into Rabbi Lefkowitz's house. Yeah, and they didn't get to stay there very long as we had that accident.
I don't think they were there two years. Oh my. There were two years when he was called from Galveston, Texas to come be their principal soloist on the program honoring Rabbi Fagan who was there when he was brought here from Europe to be in Houston. No, in Galveston. Rabbi Fagan is from Galveston and Galveston called him and wanted him to be the program to sing and I know Rabbi Fagan's 50th anniversary the synagogue oh my so he in fact he invited me to go with them on a thursday night and he said come go with us because i used to jump catch rides with them when they went to houston you know free ride i'd take pearly and she would up chug all over there at the back of their brand new car and we'd go to houston with them but he was so sweet he didn't he didn't fuss her so he said come
on bring it and paul was paul was not quite six and he's come on you can take the children we've got plenty room in the back seat and i said no i don't think i can go i've had a sore throat that i was really pregnant oh and i didn't want to tell his wife because she'd go home to euston and tell all my relatives before i had a chance to tell them and i said i had a sore throat but i'll be thinking about you they left friday and they went to euston spent the shabbos there and then Sunday was this big concert Sunday
night in Galveston and their children went with them the doctor the son the doctor and the two daughters and their families and they said he sang he wouldn't stop he sang as if he was trying to earn his bread and butter standing ovations over and over again and he kept on and then they came home and he was so exhilarating. The next morning they did not listen to the newscast on the radio, which they always did here and when they were in the car they always listened to the news. And Monday morning they're ready to go back to Dallas because she always pushed him, let's go back to Dallas.
You know, Dallas is paying you a salary. You got to get back to that. I told you she was a captain. Anyhow, the children were not at home. They were at one of the daughters' houses. And instead of telling the children they wanted to leave, because they would throw a fit, they'd say, we want you to stay longer, they decided to put the things in the car, and they're going to drive back to Dallas. And they did. They put their luggage in the car, and they started out for the Dallas Highway, and they got halfway between Houston and Dallas. And instead of listening to the car radio, as they usually did, he was busy vocalizing he was singing the songs that he sang that i got he was in such ecstasy over the reception that he got Oh my And she used to say enough already I want to hear the news And he said, listen, woman, don't you want to hear me?
That's what he told her. Don't you want to hear me? I'm better than the man on the news. And he had halfway between the car was slid over an icy embankment. Of course, it started to get icy and they didn't realize it. Oh, my. And he went over an embankment and turned over. So another car saw them and reported it and they took them to a hospital in Teague. Teague, Texas. Teague, Texas, which is halfway. A little bitty country hospital. And he lived until about 11 o'clock that night. And she had a lot of broken ribs and broken arms and broken legs. But she was okay.
They put her in one wing of this hospital and him in the intensive care. She never saw him again. in fact she didn't know that he had expired because they just didn't they didn't want to tell her it for fear something would happen to her then they couldn't locate the children oh my well she they when she said talk to herself i'm not going to tell him who our children are because he'll feel better and we'll get back in the car we'll drive back to dallas and the children will never know we were in an accident so she kept it sick which is i'm not going to tell him they said do you have children and she would would not answer and who are your
children where are they located finally a young doctor came in i get goose pimples out i think about it and he said mrs caplan would you happen to have a son by the name of harry l caplan i got goosebumps and she said yeah that's my son the doctor he says where is he now she's in houston texas so he got in touch with him immediately yeah and when he found out from her because it wasn't immediately i mean he got in touch as soon as he had heard the name and he called harry in houston and harry couldn't get here because of the weather
we were that's when we were in that ice and what year was this 1951 January the 29th and nobody was allowed to even drive here in the city remember we were at Stan still 50 were you here 51 you couldn't even go out of your houses you couldn drive how you put change on is that right to behind it we didn we bar mitzvah that same week or the following week Maybe we went that Friday night because Jaime had this station wagon He's the only one who had chains on his... Right, right. Because I went with you. And anyhow, at night time when they finally located Dr.
Harry Kaplan, and he called us at 1 o'clock in the morning and he said, Papa's been in a terrible accident. He's been killed and Mama's all bruised and broken bones and everything at Teague, Texas. So Heidi said, shall I meet you there? He said, Herman, I don't want you, I don't want to be responsible for you driving. So Heidi called the weather viewer and the highway department and he said, don't do it. Wait. So Harry somehow got there. I don't know how he got into that plane. and he couldn't get anybody an ambulance to drive his father's body back so he rented an old broken down hearse and he drove it himself and the driver's side the window was broken and you know it was way below zero and he this side of harry's face froze he lost the hearing in one year you don't know it was so cold but he drove the body back in this old hearse to to dallas or dallas oh my teeth to dallas which is about 125 miles is that right and then they had a funeral here and then they had one in houston where is he buried
houston he's buried in houston yeah next to his mother and father i see the thing is he told me that thursday night before he left he said this week i finished my cottage for my mother and father oh my cottage will be over monday that week and he he really grieved for them he felt like he had missed out on a lot because when he was little he traveled around and those little stethels teaching people how to dive and sing and then when he finally gets to houston for a few years and then he's coming to dallas So he felt like he had not been
loyal to his father's money. He said, this week I finished my cottage for my brother and Zadie. And he was crying. And he went there with his cottage that day. And they buried him there. Did Mrs Kaplan continue to live in Dallas No she was living in Rabbi Lefgood house at the time Yeah, they had bought that house. Well, she had to stay in Teague for several weeks because they couldn't move her. I understand, I understand. And finally, when they moved her to Houston to be with her children, and she recuperated enough, then she came back and the daughters came and they broke a house.
I see. and that was when I said she didn't want to leave Dallas. She said, all my friends in my old age are here because she'd been here 19 years. She said, the people in Houston, some of them are not there anymore that I was friendly with. I want to stay in Dallas. So I said, Tati, would you like for me to buy your house? Because it wasn't selling. She said, would you? She just grabbed at the idea. I said, well, I'll have to talk it over with my husband. So when Jaime came home, I said something. he says well it's not a bad idea he said all this area is changing you know and he said i don't think we'll have trouble selling our house so she said i'll sell it to you for exactly the money i have in it it cost me fifteen thousand dollars and five hundred dollars for the fence the chain with the fence i take fifteen five and i said and will you come and live with us because there's gonna be a room in a bath for you because it was five bedrooms sure oh she grabbed at the idea so we moved in and reuben was born at the time because i was pregnant and she moved in i went and bought went to houston to her son island finger finger furniture company and i bought new furniture for her and a few things for the big house it was a big house wait a minute wait Wait a minute.
Her son? Her son-in-law. Son-in-law. Her daughter Bessie's husband. Married a finger. Hyman Finger. Okay. He was president of the Finger French. Right, right. And he said, come down and get anything you want. So I did. I bought her. That bedroom set in there is one that she was supposed to sleep on. And we furnished it. And she came and she visited. And all her crony friends came to visit. All the little old ladies. I never met her. You never met her. All the ladies she played bingo with, she had a Thursday bingo club. Do you remember any of the names of her friends? Oh sure, all these little, Mrs.
Winterman and all of them, they were all from the show. All the ladies whose husbands were balabaca men. Who else besides Mrs. Winner? Oh, there was old Lady Fair, you remember old Lady Fair? What, Morris Fair's mother? Yeah. And who else? Yeah. And who else? There was a Mrs. Karchmer that she lived a block away. On South Boulevard. But she didn't go to Cherithisville. No, they went to Fair, but they were good friends. She just lived a block away. Right. Oh gosh. Anyhow, it'll take me all right to think of all these students. Okay, okay. But anyhow, she invited them all over, and I just let them go.
and i just let them have the run of the house and they had a ball then the the um um aca named a chapter for him right and i've got the uh notice in there that we called all the parents of the aza boys who were active and we had a big party they honored her at the dinner at your house well not at my house we had a reception at my house honestly but they had a dinner and a dance and an installation and they had mrs kaplan there and she really felt great well when her daughters and her son found out about this
mama you think more of rachel than you do of us so we're moving you back to houston it doesn't look nice people said where's your mother living and then we say she's living in dallas with our cousin rachel and they insisted that she moved back to houston so back she went poor thing they went in an apartment not too far from the synagogue and she walked the synagogue every day i mean every shabbos and every shabbos afternoon they have bible classes study she and our stolen woman 10 50 year old men sitting around this big table in the live ruben kaplan library studying until the
doctor told us she couldn't walk anymore so she didn't want to because it's a sin and she got one of my younger uncles to he has to pass right by she says he might as well pick me up he's not going for just me you know if you're going for just me it's a sin but if you're going and just passing by it's okay so he picked her up after that and got it to say but i i like the gal i really did she and i got along beautifully now how is he related to you he's my mother Do you remember how old Cantor
Kaplan was when he passed away Approximately He likely said 64 About 64 Oh God So he had been the cantor at Sherath Israel For 19 years. For 19 years. Well, um... Do you recall what Sherrith Issel did to acquire a new cantor? Were you involved in any of that? No, the first cantor they hired was Cantor Selensky. Right. And I remember his first Yuntas, first Rosh Hashanah Yom Kippur here. and Cantor Selensky's music was more on the Israeli type of song instead of the old traditional melodies that Cantor Kaplan used to say. And I remember Mr. A. the Golemans had the whole row in Bacchamhyme and I in the show.
And Mr. A. Goldman, isn't that the oldest one? The oldest one. He says, uh-uh, not like Kaplan. He don't sing like Kaplan. No, he'll never make it. And I turned around and I said, Mr. Goldman, give him that a chance. Everybody has his own personality and his own way of relating. Related. Right. Give him a chance. So coming from me, he didn't say anymore. Right. So, but they didn't care for his singing. For Candace Silinski. Uh-huh. But he was extra official several years. I know. He was a fine person. Uh-huh. Very good friend of mine. I took him in right away. I had him for dinner.
I treated him like my own son. and she loved it because she didn't like to cook in fact when can when rabbi sudman came for a audition i guess you could call it that well he came for a saturday weekend right right for an audition and she's oh my i have to cook and i said why don't y'all come to our house after services for Shabbos dinner I cook enough for an army well you were living on South Boulevard I had plenty of room You had plenty of room was it a large dining room Oh yeah because my uncle had all those people So they came, and Rabbi Silverman and Mrs.
Silverman, and this was his first position as a rabbi. Oh is that right? Uh huh, he had just gotten out of the Navy. That's right, so sure this one was his first... and he was very charming very amiable willing to please and so my husband laid the law down to right away like he would his own son he says now there's one word i do not want to ever use from the pulpit he said what is that hymen he said i don't want you to ever use the word decorum he says that word just goes through every one of us when we hear a rabbi say the decorum is either good or as bad i don't want to hear that word decorum because we are not cattle he never used it never used it but he used tiny
a lot for reference to different members or different activities or what he was going to do he used to always confide in him and say i think i'm going to do so and so what do you think uh-huh so they became real good friends oh that's interesting well I believe Rabbi Silverman was very well liked in Dallas he was he made a lot of great friends but you're I think you're correct and he did he want to he wanted to please this was his first position and he tried to be very nice and friendly and he he was a good educator I thought he was
a smart young man yes but there were times that he said oh I wish I'd have stayed in the Navy I'm sure everyone in that position has those times was his wife very quiet very that's what I first of all she didn't have to good command of English language she was an Israeli Israeli and she just stayed out of it and I remember that the sisterhood and the different members of the show said why doesn't Mrs. Silverman take part in something. She's the Rebbitzian. And he said, you did not hire her, you hired me. And I thought that was smart. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. But they wanted her to be more active.
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I take it that you and your husband were very active in Sheriff Israel He ran his little sharp legs off of that show That was his shul And if you caught him in the middle of the night he run Now, the shul made a move from Park and Eakin in South Dallas to its present location in North Dallas in the middle 50s, 1956-57. Of course, after World War II was a period of change and transition and most of the Jewish people had left South Dallas by that time and moved north. Do you remember anything about the move, the change from South Dallas to North Dallas?
When did you move from South Dallas to North Dallas? We moved here in 57. You moved? No, excuse me, 54. To this house? July the 6th, 1954. To this house? To this house. Oh, uh-huh. And I've been here ever since. Uh-huh. And we thought we'd only stay here 10 years and here I'm here almost 37 years. Why did you think only 10 years? Well, we thought by 10 years the kids would all be gone and we'd go find something smaller. I see. And uh... So what do you remember about the building of the new shul? Well, I remember that Heimey spent a lot of time, they put the furniture together for the chairs they had to screw them together they spent hours and the members some of the members the brotherhood members spent hours screwing the furniture legs onto the chairs and the tables and the sunday school classes and the black but they had to get everything ready well why did the brotherhood do this well that they were in a hurry to get things going oh and they all pitched in and It was a job.
I can imagine. Yes. And there were a lot of different activities going on to raise money. Of course they needed more than they thought they were going to need. They always needed. That's right. You never know when you move what you're going to need. Right. Do you remember any special activities that? I remember one time I had just gotten through an operation and Dora was president of the That's your sister-in-law, the R-O-U-T. Yeah, R-O-U-T. And we were going to serve barbecue because she said I could make good barbecue. So there I am in that kitchen cooking barbecue, barbecued brisket and beans. I forgot what it was, what a favorite.
What sweat running down. Oh, and then one time my sister had an affair and I made aprons for all the ladies who served. Because we didn't hire any help. We did everything ourselves. Did everything yourself. The members did the serving instead of hiring waiters and waitresses. And I made little black neck fancy French aprons for all the girls to wear. They look so cute. Oh, mom. But we really... Everyone pitched in. We pitched in. And we had a wonderful cooking committee, Mrs. Goodman, Sarah Goodman. Oh, uh-huh. Oh, she was magnificent. Ella Goldman. Oh, really? I don't remember when I was-Mrs. Stitzke used to work in it.
Yeah, we had a lot of good people. I mean, they worked. Oh, sure. All you had to do was tell them, we're going to have it this day, and they were there early in the morning with their aprons. Isn't that something? Yeah. And that's what makes for good fellowship. Oh, of course. Because everybody working together and putting together. And now they have everything catered. Well, not everyone's willing to pitch in. No, no. No, no. So this was really, you feel, a joint effort where everyone was one big family and working for the shul. Yes. And I remember Jake, did I say Abe Goldman? Yeah. Jake Goldman.
he was his brother excuse me married to uh that's right that was his brother to ann and jake oma was a brother at a membership meeting what he what he called a meeting boardman oh a board board board and they were trying to raise dues and raise money and he said this is a cadillac show and if you can't afford a Cadillac you can go somewhere else. Oh and Henry came home he was incensed. Of all the statements for him to make that was ugly because that drove a lot of people away. Oh really? Sure they didn't want to go out and buy a Cadillac.
Was this before the Shul moved? No it was after the Shul moved. Right after when they were trying to. Trying to you know get more money. Get more money out of them down the Shul. This is a Cadillac show. Do you remember Rabbi Weisfeld Oh definitely yes and his wife and his children Now he was at the Sherath Israel when it was on Park in Eakin I remember Rabbi Gold. Rabbi Gold. Oh, he was beautiful. He was a beautiful man. How was he so fine? He looked like a John Barrymore from the Svengali. He was gorgeous. You're saying physically he was a handsome man his language was impeccable is that right we had every sermon that he ever made we had to go home and look it up in a dictionary because he used words we had never heard before i'm not kidding i kid you not but he was like an actor on the broadway stage when he swished across that bimmy from from one end to the other with his long tallie swinging in the breeze and he turned around real quick and it would go like superman people wouldn't breathe oh they were in awe of him they were in awe of him old and young is that right he was such an impressive looking person and what about his wife i didn't know her okay she's very quiet she stayed to herself and they said she spent a lot of money but i didn't know you didn't know her So Rabbi Gold was a very impressive, I didn't know him, but I think he also, didn't he obtain a degree in psychology?
Yes, he went to school here and got his degree in psychiatry. And then he left the rabbinate? He went and opened an office on Fifth Avenue in New York. In New York. Uh-huh. Of course, he lost his life in the interim, too. He lost his wife. Oh. She's buried here. Oh, she passed away here. Oh, I didn't know that. And she's buried in Cherithisner Cemetery. I didn't know that. Yeah, because I remember the first year after she died, Uncle had him at the Seder and let him do the conducting, let him be the man of the house. Was that the only time someone else... Yeah, uh-huh, yeah.
He wanted to give him that honor. Sure. And he did, he appreciated it. Yeah. They were very good friends. Uh-huh. Very good friends. But then when Weisfeld came, he was a little roughneck from Chicago. He wanted to fight. Oh really? He was a different type person Altogether Altogether different He was used to defending himself with his fists Oh is that right I guess he was from Chicago I don't know. Just- From what I heard. Okay. I remember when he used to have Uncle cut his solos with the choir and the singing on Yontip and he had, cut a chart, cut a chart, cut a chart.
And Uncle said, we practiced this. We've been practicing four months for this. And he said, I'll meet you after services. And he wanted to fight. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, he said, we want to fight. Uncle says, I don't fight. I've never had a fight in my life. I've always gotten along with everybody. But he says, we practiced. I had these boys come every night to practice it. And they were ready for it. And I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do this to them. Well, they do that now. They do that to Madeline now. Oh. Oh, yeah. she practices the most beautiful solos and arias and everything and oh and the choir gets pretty angry about it because i mean all that time wasted i don't know every every profession has its well that's true that's true do you know why rabbi Weisfeld left, did he leave when they were making the move just before or was it after when they moved to North Dallas?
It was around that time period I believe. I don't remember. I don't remember why he left. Okay and so after Rabbi Weisfeld, Rabbi Silverman came to Sheriff Israel. When did Shapiro come? After Silverman? Right, yeah. And we, I think, talked a little bit about Silverman and how well liked he was. He was very well liked. And do you remember anything else about the transition? Did you attend that ceremony when they moved the Torahs, the procession of moving the Torahs from the old synagogue? No. Okay. I've seen pictures. I have a picture taken where the groundbreaking, a little photograph, I think Oscar took it, It was a little snapshot.
That's all I had. Okay, okay. Were your children involved in Sharath Israel? Yes yes they were Reuben was Was there a Young Judea at this room No Young Judea was separate Okay but I remember you had been involved in Young Judea Well, Jaime was advisor for 12 years. Okay. In fact, I just found a Young Judea pamphlet when they went to Shreveport. So, Young Judea was still an active organization? Oh, yes. Very active. But not with the shul? It was a separate... It was not connected to the shul, no. Okay. It was very active in Young Judea. How did children become aware of Young Judea, or how did they get active in it if it wasn't connected with the shul in any way, or promoted by the shul?
I don't remember. Okay. I really don't remember. All I know is they met over here every week, and I baked cookies, and had sody pop, and the house was swimming with kids. did all of your children go to united hebrew school pearl went and paul went did they graduate no wait a minute paul did not go i don't think pearl graduated united hebrew school yes they held their class back for either one or two years because they didn't have couldn't make a big showing of graduates so they held her and roger bellow and and Harvey Richmond and I forgot who else was there. And they have about eight kids back so that they can have a big showing of graduates.
The next year a large class. Yeah, yeah. Pearl graduated United Hebrew School and where did Paul go to Hebrew School? Paul went to a higher school. Which was United Hebrew School. And then he went to Sheref Israel. When Sheref Israel opened their new building, they had a new policy where they had their own Hebrew school. Right. And United Hebrew School had been for the whole city. Yes. It was disintegrated. and it sort of fell apart after the various synagogues developed their own Hebrew programs. Where did your youngest son go to Hebrew school? To Ferret Israel. Well that's just across the street. Right. That's why he went.
That's why. He wanted to sing as fast as Cantor Selensky. He wanted, when I'd bring him on Shabbos, and he'd hear Cantor Selensky go real fast with whatever, I want to sing like that. Uh-huh. So I brought him into Pinker Silverman, who was the director, the education director, the sheriff. He was five years old. Oh my goodness. And I said, Ruben wants to learn how to read Hebrew. I said, we could teach him at home, but we'd rather he be in a class. He said, I do not have a class for five-year-olds. Bring him back when he's nine. And I said, when he's nine, he'll be in Little League.
He won't want it. He wants it now. I don't have a place for him. So I proceeded to take him across the street to Rabbi Ennis. and I said this child wants to learn to sing as fast as Candace and Lindsay and they all knew that we were members of Sherry he says bring him to me I'll sit him in my lap I'll teach him personally fair enough so I let him go and then gradually he learned to walk across the street because the street wasn't as busy then and he was a bench I mean he was on his own he didn't have to be carpooled He could come and go as he pleased.
And it made a man out of him. He loved that show. Then Rabbi Weinschneider came. And this man was terrific with children. Oh, they worshipped the ground he walked on. He was so gentle and so sweet. And Ruben said, this is my show. So he'd wake me up every Saturday morning. He said, Mama, wake up. We're going to services. I said, Ruben, please let me sleep. I was tired. No, Mama, I've got to be at services, and you're coming with me. And Jaime was at Sheriff Israel because he was Brotherhood President and sat on the bimmy most of the time because he couldn't get all the fellows there on the board.
So Jaime was sitting on Sheriff Israel's bimmy, and I'm sitting here to Sheriff Israel's ribbons. I don't mind telling you, some old men tried to flirt with me because they thought I was a widow woman. And he said this is my shul and I going to be bar mitzvahed here And Weinstead encouraged him so much He learned everything and Glatzer Melvin Glatzer taught him to put the tefillin on and the bruhas and everything Everything that he should know that they don't even teach at Sherry, they didn't then. They didn't teach those things. So when it came time for the bar mitzvah, I had the invitations printed and we were associate members at the time and sent them out sent one to rabbi mrs silverman and inside was a card enclosed to come to the party saturday night we had a barbecue in the backyard grocery barbecue sent one to canter and mrs um um sanders mr mrs egronoff everybody from to all of our friends that we wanted well friday afternoon rabbi silverman calls up i just looked at that invitation again you made a mistake you've got to ferret this one they should be sheriff israel i said no rabbi it's
no mistake it's true reuben wants to be bar mitzvah and he is sure and that's where he'll be he said but there'll be nobody here at sheriff's saturday morning you're taking away all my membership i said i'm sorry i says had mr silvman been more cooperative we would have been there and i'd like nothing better than to have you as our rabbi but i'm sorry it's rubens bar mitzvah not mine well a week before rabbi weinshneider before rubens bar mitzvah rabbi weinstein decided to quit being a rabbi and moved to chicago oh really a week before he was going into a nursing home business with
some partners he was giving up right rabbi and what we were we going to do for a rabbi oh my so heinie's called rabbi sim he says wouldn't you like to come over and be our rabbi to ferret israel he said i'd love nothing better but he says, I don't think the board of directors would like it. So anyhow, then we call our friend Manny Federer in Denver. And we told him, he said, well, if you can't get anybody, I will come. But he says, I don't, I hadn't, I don't, I wouldn't know what to charge, what charge to give him because I hadn been around him so much Anyhow we called Rabbi Weinstein and we told him if we would pay his fare and his hotel bill would he come back just for the barmaids when he said he would.
So he came back that Friday afternoon and Mr. Strax went and got him and he performed. Then we paid his trip and Ruben was happy. And then they all came to Rubens BBQ Saturday night. The Silverman's, the Sanders, the Agronauts, everybody that we had invited came and they ate good. We had lights in the backyard and on the patio. We had a beautiful barbecue. I did everything myself. Strictly kosher and everybody. And then the kids danced on the patio. Well, it sounds great. They had a good time. Yeah. Well, tell me about your children today. Where is... Well, I didn't finish telling you about Pearl.
Okay. I didn't finish about Pearl. She's the oldest. She's the oldest. She was going to Sheriff Israel Sunday School. And she had a teacher that was teaching them on college level. Uh-huh. And she would come home all bewildered because she didn't understand the way he was teaching. And my aunt, Mrs. Kaplan, was visiting. This was before Rubens Furman. Right, right. And she was visiting. She said, what's the matter? So we tell her what's the problem. She says, what do you need to take her to share this? And she's not happy. You've got a shul across the street. You've got Temple Emanuel. Take her over there and let her be confirmed over there.
Oh, really? I said, Heidi, he said, Temple? His hair stood up. Temple Emanuel? Reform? She says, darling, a shul is a shul. A temple is a temple. If she's going to be happy, let her go there. You've got it right across the street. Why do you have to schlep her and she don't like that teacher? So sure not. We joined Temple Emanuel too. We belong to every show here in the city. And Pearl was confirmed there. And she met a lot of her friends from Forest High who were going to the temple. And she was confirmed with them. Now that's when you were still living.
That's when I was living on South Oval. Oh, South Oval. Yeah. See, Reuben was when I was living here. Right. and in between, Carl got, he was Burma, so he was Sherry. So all three of my kids had a different education You very ecumenical Very very ecumenical The only show we did not belong to was to I did a sophomore And when I went... One time I went in there for YSCA services in the middle of the week. I almost missed it. And I ran in and they said, Who are you? And I said, I'm Rachel Butte. You belong here? I said, I don't think we do.
you know look as if to say what are you coming in here for why are you using our facilities so i never went back i mean those little things stay with you that's right that's right so pearl was temple paul was sheriff israel with canter selensky and reuben was to ferret israel and i don't mind saying they all three learned beautifully i'm sure beautifully pearl learned from rabbi oh and so much she used to argue with them about judaism about intermarriage because they used to bring a lot of gentile children into the classes to visit and pearl got up and where she got the courage i don't know because she was a very shy kid she got up and she said my daddy says if you don't start with good you don't end up with gulliam uh-huh He couldn't wait to tell Jaime about it.
Next time you saw Jaime, he said, boy, has your daughter got a map on her? But that's how she was taught. So they all had good education. And now I think they've all had good education. Michelle went to Akiva for seven years, learned beautifully, even the superstitions. because she taught me about reincarnation which I don't believe in that one of her rabbis taught her that. Michael went to Akiva then he went to Sherry and Paul's kids are all working in Beth Torah. Becky teaches over there. Oh does she? teaches Barnets for kids and Josh helps with the kids there. They're all working james on the board of directors education board now beth tara is a conservative congregation in richardson right and so since they live in that area they belong to beth tara and they work they cooperate with each other so beautifully they help each other they help serve they clean up they They're wonderful.
If I live closer, I go to every shop. And where does Ruben live today? Ruben lives in Houston, right around the corner from Beth Desherum and the JCC. Is he married? He's married, and he has two little boys, and he sings in the Beth Desherum Choir Friday nights in Yontas, and practices with them. in fact uh canter wagner wanted him to do the uh um the diamond on something on russia i think i forgot which diamond or something and he says now i'm going to give you a whole almost a year to practice i'll get yourself ready it was just i don't need a year i can do it right now Well, he didn't know that.
But they're active, and I'm glad they are. But I didn't push them into this. I mean, it's because they want to be. They had the education. To waste it would be a sin. So I'm proud of all of them. Well, have we covered everything? I don't know. We covered all the sin. the good ones and the bad ones. I know we haven't covered everything we've covered quite a bit. I know that Hyman was very, you call him Hymie, was very active in Sheriff Israel and you said he was president of the Brotherhood and was there any other area that he was active in the chair of this room he was on the board of directors uh-huh where are they needed it yeah did he always remain in the in the roofing business no we uh he while he was in the roofing business he got a license for real estate and he wanted like the commercial end of it he He didn't like residential.
So he dabbled in real estate. And then there came a time when we could not get any workers. I mean, you couldn't get a young man to even learn how to be a roofer because they had to climb up a ladder with 100 pounds of roofing on their shoulder, and they didn't want to do that. In fact I even offered to open a school for roofers Oh really because we had that big building and all And Heidi says no he says you never make it We had stacks of contracts because we had had a hail storm to honor, but we couldn't. Is that what? We couldn't get enough help.
Huh. We couldn't get enough laborers. So we just locked the doors one day and came home, brought all the records home. Do you remember what year that was, what time period that was when you couldn't get workers? Yeah. It was in 68, 69. Is that right? When Ruben went off to U of H. And it was just the two of us here. And he said, I'll work on my real estate. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I can fall back on that. Uh-huh. And we did. And then I had this opportunity to open this little gift shop. And I felt like, Ruben's not here. Who am I baking cookies for?
There's no Young Judean meetings anymore at our house. There's no more Brotherhood meetings at our house. I'd like to get out and do something. I was doing Heidi's office work anyhow. And he had rented a room in the 500 building on Young Street and Irving Street. Is that the Butler Brothers? Yeah, that's the old Butler Brothers building. And when did that become, the merchandise mark? Well, it was a merchandise mark when we went, then it changed to 500. I see. And he had a room on a sixth floor office for real estate. Oh, I see. And I would go down every day and answer the phone, do up his typing and so forth.
was very lonesome sitting up there on the sixth floor not not a window to throw throw anything out of so one night we were at a party i think it was a new year's eve party and i met barney harwitz you know barney harwitz harvich harvich oh he was married to the grim girl right and he said i he used to make a lot of trips to and from old Mexico he said I have enough stock in a warehouse that we could we could open a shop a Mexican gift shop and he says I want to sell it so he had a lot of he had a little bit of every Every type of product that was made in Mexico genuinely made in Mexico to open a shop And he was going to open a shop and then decided he did not want to be tied down to a business.
He felt better freelancing back and forth between Texas and Mexico. And he was going to sell it. And he says, do you know of anybody who would like to open a shop? And all of a sudden an electric light clicked in my head and I said, how much do you want for it? He said, oh, I'll sell it cheap. He says, this lease on this warehouse in Richardson is going to expire this week and I have to get it out of here. So he says, come on, I'll take you down there. And I said, how much do you want for it? He said, I'll take $1,500 for the whole thing, clean it out.
I said, but what would I do with it? She said, that's your problem. So I said, give me two days. I'll talk to the manager at the 500 gun. If I can get a room on the first floor, a showroom, I'll rent it and put it in there. Well, sure enough, she was glad to rent me a room right by the door, by the front door. People had to pass it hard to come in. And at that time, that building was buzzing with activity. and there were a lot of retail shops on the first floor dress shops and cosmetic shops and you didn't even think about it people that didn't move to mr trammell crow's building so i said okay barney i'll buy your stuff but we have to move it out somehow i don't remember how we did i think we did it in carloads he had saddles he had onyx he had leather he had velvet pictures he had leather jackets with the fringes and they were wearing them then you know those baby crockett things a little bit of it just a little bit of everything and we moved it in there and i put great big signs posters and i said mexican villa coming soon people thought it was an eating place they'd come in and say are you going to have enchiladas they're hot tonight but then he had and shoes made in mexico ladies shoes it wouldn't fit anybody's foot in america And he removed it all in and opened up Mexican Villa and Jaime was still on six floors But gradually he moved down so that I could answer his phone And he gave up the office and we just paid rent on that first floor room And I did very well.
Of course, Jaime took an interest in it. And we made several trips. We made periodic trips to Mexico to replenish the stock market. We sold out. Mr. Mel Ash had a place in the same building. Is that right? And his was called Gifts from Around the World. And he had, because he was a salesman for United China, he had all the samples. Oh, he did beautifully. Because he traveled for them. Then when he had the leftovers, he opened this retail shop. Of course, it was in a wholesale building, so people thought they were getting to wholesale. Well, he stops in one day after business was booming.
I was selling these women two pair, three pair, four pair of shoes. They couldn't even wear them, but they were buying them because they were from Mexico. I sold the saddles to the men who belonged to some horse association. And things were going great. He walks in there and he says, there's not room for two gift shops on this floor. I said, so? He said, so I'm going to buy you out, take stock. Oh. So I said, okay. So I took stock. He never showed up. I said, to the devil with him, he just wants to put me out of business. And we went and we bought stuff in Nuevo Laredo.
Oh, he had fun. A lot of fun. And brought back a station wagon full of more tchotchkes, pinatas, and syrupes, and oh, blouses. And it was going pretty good. Then gradually, Jaime said, you know, we don't have to schlep to Mexico every six weeks. I can go here to the World Trade Mart and buy various other gift items. So he started doing that. He was a good buyer. He knew his merchandising. Oh, really? Very good. And he'd buy things that I wouldn't even look at. Uh-huh. But those are the things that sold. Uh-huh. And I did real good for ten years. My goodness. And I was there and it was like having a new baby.
Uh huh. It was fun. Uh huh. Really was a lot of fun. He was making money too. Huh. Then when he started feeling bad, then we moved. On the corner, right in front of the elevators, because it was a better room, more lighted, not by the front door, in front of the elevators. People would go upstairs on the elevators to pay their water bill, and they'd look and they'd see all these gorgeous tchotchkes, and they'd come in and say, oh, I'll pay my water bill next month. I'm going to take that vase home with me, or I'm going to take those dishes home, or whatever, or the statues, or the little dresden things.
and I did very well. But then when they built their new city hall, the city moved out. Right. They moved the water department, telephone company moved into their building, they had two floors. DeCasa I think remained, it was a government floor. But all my customers were going across the street. And then Amy didn't feel good, he had his first heart attack in 69. I see. And I said, I'm scared. Uh-huh. I said, suppose something happens to you, I can't handle it. Uh-huh. Because it was needing two people, maybe three. And he said, well, you either progress or digress in business. Yeah. Either you go forge ahead or you stop.
Yeah. Now, what do you want to do? It's up to you. It's your business. I said I think it time for both of us to go home sleep late quit fighting the traffic traffic going to and from town and enjoy our retirement So that we sold everything down to the very world So you sold out? No, just sold off. Did you sell to Mr. Ange? Oh, he had been gone a long time. Twice he had me take stock. He came in another time, several months later. Because when he'd come in and see the crowd in my store, he'd have a fit. He wanted to get rid of me.
He said, take stock, I'm going to buy it. So we took stock twice, but he never came across. Finally, he went out of business before we did. But, oh, he was a real character. Tough. Real tough. So when did you close up the business? We closed the business in the 79th, January. January the 1st, 1979. Our lease was up. And we sold off everything to the customers in the building. We let them pay it out. We need them several months to pay everything out. And they couldn't pay it once. They were working people. Some of them would give up their lunch money to buy us Like for Mother's Day and Valentine's Day, you know, that's why I don't go in for those things anymore.
But it was a fun experience. We had a wonderful time We made a lot of good friends And the people came in like they known us all our lives The girls that worked in the building would come in and confide to us all their personal problems. They'd tell Heidi their problems and say, Honey, what's she talking about? Oh, my. But we really made a lot of good friends. I enjoyed it. Yeah. Then that was in 69. No, it was 70. 69 he had his furthest attack. Then he had another one. In 79. So I thought, this is it. And the doctors kept warning me that his heart was very bad.
And it could happen at any time. But I didn't tell him that. I just said, it's time for us to relax. We bought a new car. We're going to go traveling. We're going to go see everybody. All our relatives who have been to see us, We're going to sponge on them now. So that's the way it was. But he would go every day after we closed up to stay with Oscar during his lunch hour for a couple hours while Oscar's man went out to lunch because he didn't want to leave Oscar alone. That was his baby brother. Oscar was in the... On Deep Bell. On Deep Bell On the jewelry and palm And that was his baby brother Don ever say anything about his baby brother They were twins I know but he was a baby brother Oh God he worried about Oscar Like he would be his mother.
And he'd catch the bus ride out here and go downtown, get off right in front of Oscar's building. Then he'd call me about 2.30, quarter to three, come get me. I chased down Central Expressway and go after him. But he didn't want to leave him alone. Because he had several encounters with some not very good children. Well, it was a rough area. Yeah, it was. So that's the story. That's what we did. and I'm glad no regrets well it's no regrets I just wish he could see all of his grandchildren and that wasn't meant to be well listen my father didn't get to see his own children so we have to life is what you make it baby right life is what you make it well I certainly thank you for this terrific and most enjoyable interview.
Thank you so much. I've talked both your ears off. I really do. Not at all. Talk too much sometimes. Not at all.