Raymond Nasher
Raymond Nasher was born in Boston, Massachusetts, an only child. His father was born in Russia and came to the United States around 1896, while his mother was born in New York to a family that had emigrated from Germany. He grew up in a close, multi-generational household, with grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins living nearby, and the entire family gathered each Friday night at his grandparents' home. His grandparents kept a strict Orthodox home, while his parents were more liberal in their observance. He attended Boston Latin School, the demanding first public school in the United States, and went on to Duke University, where he was Phi Beta Kappa, president of the school of government, and captain of the tennis team. He served four years in the Navy during World War II and later earned a master's in economics at Boston University.
Nasher came to Dallas in 1951, drawn by a study showing that Texas offered strong opportunity and by his marriage to Patsy, a Dallas native he met in Boston who had attended Smith College. Learning the field from the ground up, he became a professional real estate developer, building housing in Oak Cliff and Farmers Branch, office buildings in Beaumont for Sun Oil, and an apartment tower in Tulsa. He went on to design and develop NorthPark Center, which opened in 1965, and founded North Park National Bank. He also served at the national level, working on urban housing efforts under President Johnson, the Kaiser Commission, the White House Conference on International Cooperation, and as a delegate to the United Nations, and he taught at Harvard from 1975 to 1978.
Together with his wife Patsy, Nasher built one of the world's foremost collections of modern and contemporary sculpture, along with pre-Columbian art, guided by museum visits, travel, and Patsy's discerning eye. He sought to marry art with industry by placing works in his projects and later chose to give Dallas a sculpture garden intended to be a global center of modern sculpture. A longtime member of Temple Emanu-El, he connected his liberalism and generosity to Reform Judaism and was active in the American Jewish Committee, American Jewish Congress, and Jewish Welfare Federation, as well as broader civic groups. He and Patsy worked to bring liberal voices to a then-conservative Dallas, hosting Adlai Stevenson shortly before the Kennedy assassination. He and Patsy raised three sons and had grandchildren in Dallas.
Full Transcript
And I know you wanted to do the south part as well. Yes, over here with all of this that you see out of this window. I did a master plan for that, which was incredible. It would have been the most wonderful thing that's ever happened to Dallas if we could have continued North Park over here, because it was a mixed-use development of housing and spas and theaters and all kinds of different things, et cetera. It would have been a continuation of that. But due to the zoning considerations, you know, basically, I finally decided that time time was too precious to worry about that. So you go through all those things, but that's part of the nature of business.
In other words, you have foolish people who don't understand basically what you're trying to do or don't listen because they have their own internal approaches as to what they want, and they're not that interested in what's to the best So, you know, you go through all of those things. But that's part of, regular part of business. But you were able to still develop the South Park. Oh, yeah. Well, I didn't develop it. I kept the South Park, and then after a long period of time, I sold the property. But I had the rights of approval and all the planning. What about times of... Have there been change of occupation over the years?
Oh, yes. In other words, I... Not occupation, but I've been involved in banking and real estate, you know, throughout Stillham. And in essence but I took a period of time I was involved with the I was asked to be head of the National Urban Commission and we created the Department of Housing and Urban Development it was an agency, the Housing and Home Finance Agency, and I was asked by President Johnson to participate in that, Then we created the new agency, and then I was involved with the Kaiser Commission, the Presence Commission on Urban Housing, where we were supposed to see how we could improve all of the cities that were burning during the Vietnam situation, et cetera.
That was very important. And then I was asked to head the White House Conference on International Cooperation, which was a very important happening. And I was very pleased to spend a year at the State Department on that Friday. And then I was appointed to the United Nations, so I was there for a period of time. And then I taught at Harvard for three years in 75 to 78, and so I've continued to do different things that I've enjoyed doing. And fortunately I've never had any partners, so I could always make the decisions that I wanted to do myself. What were some of the processes, for example, on some of these commissions that you served on that you actually went through in dealing with people?
Well, in the once I was talking about the White House conference, I found out that I was supposed to be able to speak to the secretaries of all of the agencies, you know, and get them participate on the conference because it was an international affair that President Nehru of India declared that we should have and have all the nations of the world agreed. So I found that when I got to the State Department and I wanted to make the meetings with the Secretary of State and YMG et cetera that they were always busy So I called President Johnson to a meeting and I spoke to him and I said you know, you've asked me to do this and I'd love to do it, but none of your cabinet members are really very enthusiastic about it.
So he said, well, why don't you just advise them that President Johnson is asked for you to speak to them? So after that, everything will be easy. So that was very important. And then at the United Nations, I was able to do a number of things through systems, various humanitarian causes and other things. How were you able to go about doing that on the United Nations level, for example? How were you able to work with these people? Well, in other words, we had meetings every morning in the UN mission as to what each of us would divide into six different component parts, And we each of the delegates, the representatives of the United States, were involved with those areas.
And then I was involved with administration and finance, and so I handled those situations. But then after the working in the committees themselves and in the various rooms, and you were open to, free to be involved with all the other nations, etc. So it was a fascinating time, and you could do as much as you wanted. Right. How was the communication? Communication with people from other lands? Oh, yeah, no, great. They were all the diplomats, the chief people representing their countries, etc. or so that it was all very intelligent and all very meaningful. And really, you know, you could basically talk to them. Whether they agree or not is another situation but they truly were the ones who knew exactly what the principles of their countries were in relationship to many problems in the world Now were they all English then In the world.
Or did you... you didn't have to use any translators? No, everybody used... there were a few who were basically, yes, were not... but everyone who came to the UN spoke English. Now, let's, I want to go back to some of your family structure. Did your mother work at all outside of the home where she was only in the home, or what? Well, she was in the home after she worked prior to her marriage, in other words, she was in the millinery department. Feline's in Boston, etc., the department store. But when she and my father were married, she had settled in with her child, etc., and with the whole family.
The whole family was a unit. Everybody in those days were together. I mean, if anyone were ill, everybody basically provided for them. If there were any problems, everyone had to participate in. solving the problems is different than the period. We've lost a great deal, you know, as the years have passed, because now most people are individualists, and the whole aspect of the utopian type of community, basically, where people are together and looking out and preserving and protecting each other. It was not as great as it was in the early days. Do you feel that that was an influence on your overall being and how you handled the situation?
Yeah, I know. I think the family was very important. The ability of everyone to really work together, be together, love each other, and be a part of the family community, et cetera. extremely meaningful in my growth and development. And now your family consists of your own children now, how many kids do you? Yes, three boys. And do you see some of that in your own family today? I do stay together and basically understand each other and know what they were doing, etc. And they try to know what I'm doing and all of the things that are going on and participate in those areas. And I do the reverse in relating to their interests, etc.
So I think it all all stemmed from basically my growth and development. What about the Jewish influence in terms of your own development? Well, it's been very important because I've been involved with all the Jewish entities and agencies and development, and it's been very meaningful because historically the Jew There's been really been a very complicated situation to say, and so one had to really be more feeling in relationships with the development of the people, because many times they've been oppressed and just mandatory that everyone be equal. Have you met with any anti-Semitism through the years? I haven't known, I haven't personally, which is kind of amazing to say because at moments everyone else can, but for some strange reason I may have been in a covert approach, etc., but not in an overt approach.
I have not had that experience. Did you sense any anti-Semitism in dealing with people on the UN level or within that framework? Well, of course, I didn't feel any, in other words, because all of these people were tremendously intelligent. Of course, you talked about Israel, and basically there was a system that their government had policy in relationship to that but normally their intelligence is so great that they would talk on a very rational basis, very intellectual basis about all of the happenings in the world. How did they deal with the situation in terms of Israel if they were not exactly friendly Well no one been gone on until today In other words it not much different Maybe worse today, in other words, because with all of the atomic bombs and all of the other things in our going forward into war and basically all of the 9-11 situation and all the rest.
So that basically I think it's the most critical period in the history of the world, in other words, that we are having more problems and potential problems due to and lack of leadership and lack of truly understanding how one uses the United Nations and international agencies, et cetera, properly, that we are basically in worse condition today than we ever have been. Now in terms of the Jewish, local Jewish community, what do you see some of the changes, or how do you see some of the changes, and how do you feel about the way it's involved? Well, in other words, the changes in relationship to, you know, just creating a new Holocaust which is very important, and of course the Jewish school being created, etc.
And the temples have been very progressive in relationship to children's programs and adult programs. And so that I think that the Jewish community has attempted to progress well for all of the people. It's amazing that we have so few Jewish people in this community. If I remember correctly, there were 18,000 when I came in 1951. And I think there are only 50,000, 40,000,000 today, which is unbelievable. I can understand it because leadership has been very strong in the Jewish area All the heads of the department stores and all the great numbers of the people in the retail business and other businesses were Jewish And I find it very difficult to determine why I agreed that a few hundred, two hundred, three hundred, four hundred thousand.
Because the growth was, and when I came there were about four hundred thousand people in there now and the Metroplex, five things. So some things were wrong. Yeah. Interesting observation. What about the organization and feeling as far as community, Jewish people feeling as part of the community? Do you have any comment on that? Well, I think that all of them really would like to participate, you know, in... There's so many different areas, political and social and cultural and every other way. My feeling is that there's a normal group of people just like everyone else in every other city. I don't see them really just going into basically just the ghettoing of themselves.
I think they're just a part of the community. Do you feel any fragmentation within the community, or do you feel unity within the community? Well, I don't think there's leadership in the community. In other words, I think politically we're in very bad position. In other words, due to our nature of government, et cetera, and I don't see the leadership to bring great industry and cultural and social and other things here as it should be. And that comes from planning, having great master plans, and really following them up and doing them, in other words, rather than just talking and talking and talking and talking, and not anything happening, in other words.
So I think it's a leadership problem. What kind of Leadership A leadership problem within the Jewish community No no I talking about the whole community I talking about Dallas yeah And of course the other problem is we have unlike Houston where there one county In other words, you have all the people in one county. The last I heard, we had 188 different cities, school districts, water districts, X's, Y's. So that basically was splintered, totally splintered, which is not, I think, to the best interest of heaven. Well, do you feel there's been an improvement in the Jewish community in the time you've been here? How do you rank the Jewish community in itself?
Well, I think the Jewish community has always been, you know, interested in the best that can be done for people, etc., and they've always been very sympathetic and thoughtful and meaningful, etc., and they have progressed in regard to the creation of new entities But I do think that through the Jewish Welfare Rehabilitation and the American Jewish community and the others that they've continued to try to improve. Do you think there's been good participation from all areas within the Jewish community, all groups in the community? I don't really know. No, that's right. In other words, I'm not in relation to any group in other groups other than the temple.
Because I'm not certain what's happening throughout the community in the Jewish area. Because I look at things in a very, at the total, at the total situation. And I think you can answer that better than I can. Well, let me ask you this. What about the assimilation process? Do you see more or less assimilation from your perspective? I think there's more, that's right. It's the nature of our time. I think this is true everywhere, not just in Dallas. What do you see as the future of the Jewish community, say in Dallas, in terms of assimilation as opposed to retaining identity? Well, I would hope that the Jewish community would be an important part of the growth and development and planning and future of this area, Because there's great potential here from a cultural point of view and from a social and business point of view.
It's a question of leadership and planning, and I think the Jewish people should all be a part of the totality of the situation and can make a great contribution because there are incredible people in the Jewish community who are doing wonderful things. Let's talk about your art and your interest in art and how that developed. Yeah, well, of course, my parents took me to museums in Boston when I was very young. They, once a month, the three of us would build a museum, so I was exposed to it. And then of course my wife was a very, very thoughtful person, very interested in the arts.
She read everything about them and she basically went to Smith College where she was exposed to it. And when we were married we determined that we wanted our children to grow up with very intellectual, aesthetic things, etc. And then if we ever had any additional funds that we would like to buy some art, it would be fun to have at home. And she was superb. She had an incredible art. She basically could tell the difference between the qualities of the artists themselves. same artist, but if there were a dozen pieces, she could determine which ones really were so much better and why. So we had a great partnership and we really started pre-Columbian Of course, we'd go to Mexico for our vacation, and pre odds we could find a few things but we pretend you could buy them So we put together a very good pre collection and pre art as sculpture So that I determined that I wanted to marry art with industry, in other words, and put works of art in our project.
And I thought it would be very important for the consumers as well as the employees. And so it's something that I've been doing for 50 years. Did you collect art in your travels? Was it incidental? Was it specific? Where did that... Well, we went to New York's Assembly of the World, and in other words all of the art galleries and the great museums and the rest. And I had to go to New York on business for those years, so we always went to the galleries and the museums. And then Patsy would go there almost every month, you know, for a week or two. And so we were exposed to a great deal in that area.
And then we traveled. We went to England and France and Italy and Germany, et cetera, and Switzerland. And we got to know all the dealers, et cetera, in those areas. And we went to all of the galleries and the weekly areas. So it was a question of constantly educating ourselves for the importance of art itself. How did you, or what were the factors that helped you decide to leave your art or bring your art to Dallas and develop the National Sculpture Garden? Well, I mean, it really related to the fact that the art was wanted in many cities, not only in Washington, and it was all kind of a matter, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
And finally, we all felt that Dallas has been very important to our growth and development and basically being involved in all of the things that hopefully have been helpful to the city. And that this was an opportunity to give to Dallas something that no other city could have It could become the center the global center of modern sculpture modern contemporary sculpture in the world And if it did that perhaps it could be a catalyst for many other things to occur in Dallas And so it's a question of giving back to the city that really we lived in, and our children grew up, and our grandchildren are here.
So it was in essence the saying that, you know, why do you work? Why do you do all these things? It's really what you can give to everyone in the community. So hopefully this will change now because it will have something no other city in the world has. Do you have any memorabilia? I know you're running out on time. We would love to have some memorabilia. and over the years of course as you've grown we would like very much to have a collection of how your business if you will and your interests have grown and we would appreciate your giving us materials that you might have not necessarily original of whatever but milestones a history of how you have grown and developed and your whole corporation has grown and developed in Dallas, your Dallas history, because you've certainly made history in Dallas, or contributed to Dallas history.
Right. Well, we can think about that. Pictures or something. Pictures, scrapbooks. We have certain things that Ellen has. Yes, we would very much like to have a collection, and we would be very appreciative of a collection, and you may have pictures of many things. Well, we ought to take a look at a couple of things that we could use. That would be wonderful. Right. We would very much appreciate it. Good. Thank you so much. I'm excited that you're wonderful. Certainly, that's right. You are unbelievably, you've been one of the most magnificent experiences I've ever had. What I want to know is your magnificent generosity and your liberalism do you feel that a connection with your Judaism Yeah, no, I think so, because I think that Reform Judaism is very liberal and basically it's uplifting.
You know, it's creating something within you that's very spiritual and that basically you learn a great deal and you feel a great deal due to the cause and the fact that the Jewish reformed Judaism is really so interested in improving the whole nature of the community that I think it's something that's ingrained in the person. Good. Very good. I've got to run. I understand. I've got to see my grandchildren because they just came back today, and I promised them I'd have to meet them for now. Wonderful. And I haven't seen them in a week. I found out that my son went to jail. Today is March 28, 19...no, 2005, I'm sorry.
2005. And this is Ginger Jacobs. I'm Ginger Jacobs, and we're talking with Raymond Nasher this morning, this afternoon. How do you like to be referred to name-wise? Yeah, Ray, Ray Nasher. And your home address? 4701 Myron Drive, Dallas, Texas. And are you the first generation to come to Dallas? Yes. And where were you born? In Boston, Massachusetts. And what about your parents? Well, one was born in Russia, and my father was born in Russia, my mother was born in New York. Her family had come in from Germany. What year? Do you know what year? Yes, when? I'm not sure. What about the era? About when?
My father came in about 1896 and my mother was born there and her family came I came to New York in the 80s, I believe. Do you know where they were from? Germany. They were from Germany, I see. What brought you to Dallas? Well, a couple of things. I did a study that indicated that California, Florida, or Texas were the areas where one had very little funds could really go into business. well and would have the best opportunities. That's number one. Number two, my wife, Patsy, she went to Smith College and I met her in Boston. She was from Dallas. Let's talk a little bit about your own growing up and how family life was at home.
Did you have siblings? No. No, I'm an only child. and as you were growing up, what was it like, and did you have any relatives living with you? Yes, we lived in a three-story walk up, and my grandmother and grandfather lived on the first floor. Another brother with his two children and wife lived on the second floor, and the three of and then my aunt and uncle lived a few blocks away, instead of with their two children. And then another one of my father's family lived out in Stoughton, Massachusetts, and another one, Uncle Max, lived in Malden, Massachusetts. What was it like growing up as far as holidays were concerned?
Well, we met every Friday night at my grandparents' house. The whole family got together and she had cooked all day naturally, or two days, and basically it was a family reunion every Friday evening, and it was very exciting for me to remember all of my uncles and aunts and children, their children. So it was a great happening. They were the center of the attraction. What was Saturdays like? What was Shabbat like? Well Shabbat was just in our family it was a normal day In other words we did whatever we wanted Isn't that right? What about other holidays? Yeah, well, Jewish holidays, we went to the temple for Passover and for all of the other holidays.
and we basically lived in... My grandfather, his life was spent in the temple, and the children were very orthodox, etc. And his children were both orthodox and liberal. Did they keep kosher at home? Yeah, they did. I mean my grandparents. Your grandparents did. My parents did, and basically we did not. What about the observance of other holidays other than Rosh Hashanah? Well, we observed some of them, in other words. We were not that strict in relationship. My grandparents were, et cetera. But we as a family, my father, mother, myself, were not as certain of the holidays we cared for in others were not that important for us.
What was Passover like? Well, it was just a very important day and very major happening, and all the family would together, be a part of it, and observed it together. And it was very significant. Were there only matzahs during the Passover? Did those... Everything. Everything. You know, Brian, it was totally, totally orthodox. It was all related to my grandparents, who really did everything in a very, very strict religious way. What was your training like? Did you go to Hebrew school? No, I didn't. I did not. I went to Boston Latin School which was the first public school in the United States It was so hard and difficult for everyone that basically there was little time for anything else So I did not go to Hebrew school Did you have any Sunday school?
Was there Sunday school offered? Well, there was, and I went for a while, yeah. What about bar mitzvah? No, I was my bar mitzvah. My parents didn't really relate to that, et cetera. So they didn't think that it was necessary. Did the temple that you went to have the option of having a bar mitzvah at that point in time, or what was the temple directly general? Well, it was very often, you know, an extremely often temple that my grandfather was totally related to, and they had every requirement, really, that related to Orthodox Jews. Now, were your parents also members of that synagogue? Yes. Oh, yeah, everybody was a member of that.
What was after you went to the Boston School? Right. Where did you go from there? Well, I went to Duke University in Durham, North Carolina. And how was that like? What was that like then? Wonderful. It was wonderful. It was great. Everything worked out very well. I was the president of the school of government and the captain of the Tennessee and Phi Beta Kappa and everything good happened. And I've stayed with Duke since my graduation, being on the board of trustees and being the head of most of the committees. I'm currently building a museum for Duke University, which will open this up to. Were you involved in any Jewish groups?
No. Like B'nai B'rith? No. And what about before going to college? Before going off to college at Duke, were you involved in it? As you were growing up, were you involved? Yes there was a Jewish group of that I was related to in Boston What was the By the neighbor Ah okay Now were you active very active or what was the extent of your activity I attended, in other words, and participated in whatever. Now, after Duke... I was in the Navy for four years, during World War II, and basically that was an important of my life and then after that I came back to Boston and worked with my father who was in the garment business and basically also went to night school to get my masters in economics at Boston University.
What was the Navy like? Navy was very fascinating because it was true democracy. In other words, you met people from all over the country who you wouldn't normally of all classes, races, genders, etc. And it was a very rewarding experience, although boring many times when you were really not He basically told me he evolved. But I had an interesting experience. I was assigned to the 3rd Marine Wing, Air Wing. And my roommate was Tyrone Power, the movie actor. He had a very interesting time. And then I went out to see on the USS Humboldt. So it was fascinating. And I first touched Texas when we were asked to decommission our ships, head the decommissioning in Orange, Texas.
That was the first time I had been in Texas. How long were you there when you decommissioned? What was that process like? I was there almost about a year. You said In going to grammar school, it was difficult. What was it? Well, Boston Public Latin School was the first public school in the United States, founded in 1635. And in essence, it was known for the rigor that it related to. Everyone took French, German, Greek, Latin, English, and history period. And only one out of five would make it through the four years, etc. And it was the premier school as far as great teachers. They had the teachers who were important as the professors in the universities.
And basically, when you were there, it took me an hour and a half to get there and get home every night, etc. And then one had to study three or four hours after that, so it was very, very intense. How was it? What was the process? How did you happen to get to or go to that school? Well, you had to take an exam to get in, because it's a public school. Right. Part of the Boston school system. And you were fortunate in getting in and fortunate to stay in. Now, what age did you take that exam and did you enter the first grade? 13 or 14.
Ah, okay. And then your earlier years were spent in, how were the earlier years when you were sitting? We went to a public school for a while in Boston, of course, in our neighborhood, And then we moved to New York for five years, and I went to PS99 in Kew Garden, Long Island. And it was a part of the normal system growing up. Now, are you affiliated today? or which congregation? Yeah, Temple Manual. Temple Manual. I have been for the last 40 years I guess Do you observe where are you in your observance in relation to what it was like when you were growing up Well it was totally different then It was very orthodox.
It was all related to my grandparents. My parents were very liberal, etc., as far as that was concerned. And we celebrate the holidays period. And I, of course, have been involved with the temple, and have the forum that I give the temple, and we do a number of things for them, et cetera. I did the garden that was outside of the temple, and a number of things. So I've been deeply involved. involved with Levi Olin and a number of various issues, and now with our current rabbi. I want to ask you about observing sukkah. Did your parents, did your grandparents have a sukkah? They did, yeah.
But we did. Now, in terms of going to school on the holidays, did you go to school? No, no, I wouldn't go to school on religious holidays. Do you have more than one membership today in the congregation, or are you only one membership in the temple? I mean, Temple Emanuel. Temple Emanuel. That's my temple. Okay. Okay. How has the services, how have they changed when you went to service as a child, services, and can you make a comparison? Well, I couldn't make it. I was five, six, eight years old, and seven, and of course everything was done in Hebrew, Jewish, etc. And my grandparents just spoke that in my English.
And it was very orthodox. You know women sat on the upper floors and I sit with my father and grandparents below I mean it was a very all It went on and on and on and on forever and forever And today services are the normal services that we have here and it changed Mm-hmm. Totally. That's right. Temple over the years has somewhat changed in terms of usage of Hebrew, more Hebrew and more traditional than it had been. Do you have any feelings about that? Do you have any thoughts on that? No, I think they're done in both languages. I really feel that it should be what the rabbi and the congregation really wants.
And here they use both temporal manner, which I think is fine. And of course the chorus really basically sings in languages. I think whatever they feel is important to express the best moral and religious feeling is the thing that really should be done, and they're trying to do. There's great change going on in Temple now. They just brought in a new canter, and that canter is leaving. They're looking for a new canter now, and the whole course has changed, and many of the approaches to services are different than they were in previous periods. Having grown up without an organ in the synagogue, did you have any feelings about that when you joined Temple?
Well, of course, I joined the Temple when it was on Forest Lane, That's right, and that was an older temple. And of course, I think it would have been great putting an organ into the new temple. But I guess it was a financial consideration. We have a great organ at the symphony hall which is fabulous And I happen to like the organ very much I think it would have been nice to have one in the temple but they do The music there is excellent, of course, wonderful. All right, what about some of the organizations that you're involved in today? You mean Jewish organizations? Jewish and non-Jewish organizations that you're involved in today.
Well, Jewish organizations, I've, you know, been a former past president and head of the International New York and the rest for the American Jewish Committee, so I've been deeply involved with them. And then American Jewish Congress, something related to Jewish Welfare Federation, and it goes on and on. And then, of course, I'm involved with the Council of Foreign Relations and World Affairs Council and all the environmental entities and the Art Museum of Art, the Whitney Museum, Dallas Museum, the Getty, etc., Venice, Peggy Goodman, and then involved with Boston University. I'm on the board at Boston University now, and a few others. Now when you came to Dallas, what was it like, and what happened when you came to Dallas?
Well, I kept our symphony tickets in Boston for four years and leased them, assuming that We may not be able to make it. It was so conservative and so difficult, and a period in an area as to whether or not we would stay was a consideration. So that we did, we decided we probably could do more here to improve the community than we could back in Boston. So that it was a very, very difficult period, because there was arts conservative I said, you know, we're liberal as far as people are concerned. I remember a meeting at Highland Clough we lived in on Livingston, and there were only four of us who were in a vote against the hundred and some hundred and hundred and seven liberals.
One of them was our maid and Patsy and myself. In other words, it was a very tough period, and one in which we needed to help create with Sarah Hughes, the United Nations Association. And then we created the, uh, I worked with Neil Mallon in creating the World Affairs House, Council World Affairs. And, uh, we were, uh, involved in a number of things, trying to create a much more liberal a normal relationship to this area because it was extremely conservative and, of course, that went on through the Kennedy situation. What years were those? What year did you actually come to Dallas? 51. We were 51.
Where did you move from Highland Park? 1960. And where did you move to when you left Holland Park? Myron Drive, where we live today. So we've been there 45 years. What are some of the differences you've seen over the years? Oh, well, there was a tremendous change after the Kennedy situation. I had invited that. We had Adlai Stevenson at our house a month before the Kennedy assassination, and we invited all the leaders of Dallas to join us for dinner with Adlai Stevenson. He was ambassador to the United Nations at that time. All of them were either ill or out of town et cetera et cetera so that because they They felt Adley Stevenson was too liberal you know et cetera for them to be involved in And the, the, so then we invited the rational people like Irving Goldberg and Sarah Hughes and Barefoot Sanders and people of that nature, et cetera.
since the others were not available. And that was the night that when we took Stevenson down to the Orange Corner, after the, during the, we had asked John Conley to introduce him, but he refused, of course, because of the livingism and the relationship to conservatives. Although the next night he introduced Major General Walker at the same area. Major General Walker was one of the fluids flags upside down and, of course, was head of the National Indignation League. The night we had Stevenson there, after the ceremony, he was spat upon on the way to the house. And he called while we were there the president and told them that he didn't think he should come to Dallas.
He thought he was coming to try to mend the ways between Senator Ralph Yarbrough and John Connolly, Governor Connolly, because there was major political split. And he then went on to Los Angeles and California where he made the United Nations speech as well. So in San Francisco, he called the president again, told him that he was so emotional when he had called him from our place that he thought he had to settle the political affair. And the end of that story was about two months after I was in Adlai Stevens' office at the United Nations. And he said, if only I had been killed rather than spat upon, President Kennedy would be alive.
Have you seen some changes since then How are the changes Well they were going pretty well until recently But we have a very complicated state. I mean, it turned from a totally democratic state to a republican state, and it's very arch-conservative again. And of course we have a Republican president who is from Texas, so it all has a relationship to the nature of the political system of our time. Do you have any comment as to why that's come about? Why? Yeah. As far as the conservatism becoming so strong in Texas? Well, I think that really the Democrats used to be, when we arrived here, conservative, as far as people in the East are concerned, etc.
The Republicans were ultra conservative. And so during the time and during the period over the years, the Democrats have become more liberal and the Republicans have become very conservative. And I think it occurred relating to the fact that the business interests in Texas is so strong and so meaningful and so powerful that the Republicans basically were able to take it over. What about your own development in business and when you came and how that developed? Well I had to learn how to basically, I decided to be involved with real estate. development and I knew nothing about it. So I had to learn how you build streets and put in sewers and water and basically electricity and all of those things and all those only problems in the relationship to it.
So I did that and really was able to gradually become a professional in that area and learn how one creates projects The first project was in Walnut Hill and Hillcrest Road because there were power lines on Walnut Hill I was able to get those power lines removed because there was no power to them. So that was helpful. And then we were involved with building eight, nine, $10,000 houses out in Oak Cliff, out of Camp Wisdom, probably, practically. And then also in Farmers Branch, we were all involved in the hundreds of thousands of houses. And then we continued to do many, many housing projects. And then I get bored quickly, so we got involved in industrial development.
And then went to Beaumont and built the office buildings for the Sun Oil Company. And then went to Tulsa and built a major 20-story apartment house. And then continued, et cetera, in always changing, et cetera. And then I decided that Dallas needed a shopping center. So we designed and developed North Park. Then continued after that and started there. You got the charter to create a federal bank in Dallas, North Park National Bank, which grew. And then we did a lot of work in Florida between Miami built office buildings and then housing projects between Miami and Hollywood and that area. So business is always an interest.
Yes. How did you... Were able to initially get the capital to do... Well, fortunately I was a good tennis player. And when I was here the first year, I won the tennis championship of this part of the world. And two of the people who were there were really very interested in it, and we became good friends, and we formed a partnership. And they had the funds to basically get us started on the projects. And so we did a couple of projects together. Then I went on on my own. Weren't you involved in the shopping center over at Walnut Hill? and... No. Not Longworth Hill. Northwest Highway near Marsh Lane?
No. No? Not at all? Okay. No, the first shopping center I did was at North Park. Okay. And that we did... Between 60, it took me two or three years to be able to get the land from Will Carruth, and then if you've got two, three years to plan and build it. So we opened that in 1965. What are some of the processes that you really have to go through or you want to comment on?