Rose Gallin
Rose Gallin was born in La Crosse, Wisconsin in 1901, nine years after her parents married. Her family came from the Kovno region of Lithuania, and her father built a business in oil supply and metals. The family moved to Marietta, Ohio in 1913, after severe floods, where her father and uncle bought a business. There Rose grew up in a warm community of roughly 30 to 35 Jewish families who shared holidays and troubles like one large family. Her first Hebrew teacher, a recent immigrant, boarded with her family and insisted the children speak Hebrew at the table.
Rose met Meyer Gallin by chance in Cleveland around 1923 or 1924, when she was in her early twenties and traveling with family toward a wedding in Chicago. Meyer, born in Europe and educated at the Volozhin yeshiva, had come to the United States in 1912. Turned away from the path of the rabbinate, he devoted himself to Jewish education, teaching and studying under Dr. Friedland in Cleveland. He proposed to Rose after only a few days, to her indignation, but a steady stream of daily letters won her over. They married and lived first in Cleveland for three years, then Indianapolis for about nineteen years, followed by five years in Milwaukee, where Meyer built new schools.
In 1953 the Gallins moved to Dallas, where Meyer became principal of the United Hebrew School, in part to be near their daughter Nina. He developed a curriculum grounded in Hebrew as the language of instruction, literature, history, and grammar, insisting on more than superficial learning. After a few years, factional tensions arose as the community moved north and plans formed around a congregational school at Shearith Israel, and Meyer left for St. Paul. Following heart trouble he retired to Los Angeles, then returned to Dallas around 1977. In his later years he led a Hebrew circle and taught at Golden Acres, where he was remembered for treating every student with dignity.
Meyer Gallin died about a month before this interview was recorded, after a career of some 55 years in Jewish education.
Full Transcript
I'm talking with Mrs. Rose Gowan, or Mrs. Mayor Gowan. Mr. Gowan, al-of-shalom, was the principal of the Hebrew, United Hebrew School, from which years? years well this was a graduation classic this was even those days much better than i did she remembers all the dates well this was of 19 this is 45. this is 19 no this one is in 1954 54. we were here about four years we were here in the early 50s okay uh let's talk about both of your backgrounds for a little bit um where how many years have you lived in nallas now now eight years here eight years so then you lived in nalus during during um melissa now Now, Nina was a curious story.
What happened was that I had a brother who had a business in Fort Worth. But he was living in Chicago. And he, when visiting many towns, you know, we were living in Milwaukee at the time. Nina, our oldest daughter, was married in Milwaukee, married a Milwaukee boy. They graduated at the same time, only he had been in the Navy for four years and came back and finished. And they graduated in the same class. They didn't date at all then. when they came to Milwaukee and she had just graduated, couldn't decide whether to go into graduate school or not. Arnie had graduated as a pharmacist, her husband, her now.
About what year? That was in 19... what year were they married? I just gave the book a vacation. All right now let back up a little bit They were married about 1950 then Yes she was married 25 I think it was 1950 51? Yes. That era? Yeah. And so they came down here, took their vacation, and came. They didn't want to go to Fort Worth. They thought it was too small a town. they came to Dallas. Meyer knew Kravitz from Muir's association, and they went to see Kravitz, and Kravitz could give him the lowdown on the community and so on and so forth. And as a pharmacist, he had no problems at all.
He had interviews with different ones, and Weinberg, what's her name? Weinberg. They even stayed in Weinberg and by them stayed at their house. His wife was out of town. That's Edna. Edna's, how they even there, and he wanted to hire a different wife. He did not take a job at the time, but they wrote from here that we took the fatal step, we took an apartment. Now that was with Ward's drugs at the time, is that at Weinberg? They were Ward's. They had Ward's, yes. but he did not he did not take a job okay anyhow they came back and he gave an notice the pharmacist you know where he was working and they moved to milwaukee i mean to dallas while they were here i had a letter from nina that she said they saw kravitz they had a committee in new york looking for for somebody, the head of schools, the head of Tom Autore here.
Kravitz said if he would come to Dallas, they would tell the committee to come home, you know. So of course, he took it as a joke, you know. He had not been to Milwaukee more than four years, and had built in Milwaukee, had opened a school in Milwaukee that, on the east side, which was a reform, completely reform area, and opened a Hebrew school in the building. Of course, they told me, and their rabbi was so anti-Jewish that for one year that all they give them one year to rent the space in a building So they opened a two school Of course they wouldn take anymore but it better than nothing They didn't have anything there at all.
So Meyer opened a school on the east side, which is a flourishing school to this day, and finally bought a building on the east side. He has a plaque, I'll show you, after a while. But he's the father of the East Side Hedges Hill. So in four or five years, we were there five years, he built, I don't know how, really. And he came away from Indianapolis, having been promised everything under the sun. Came to Milwaukee, all of his colleagues wrote it. He's crazy. He's absolutely out of his mind. leaving a full-forson community in school and everything's going his way wow how in the world he's going to milwaukee which has nothing they had the five schools but they had dope bureau dr meyer came to milwaukee and they took put him in an office downtown because after all there was no central central thing an old desk and a chair and that was it that he came to milwaukee that way and he started building a year you needed a lot of building you started the bureau there and got things going and got the proper people to to back the schools and so on and so forth and we made friends there that we're in contact with today i mean i've known the four or five years that so that we were there very very strong and and he built us he built schools well anyhow after nina was they were here we got started getting my hair started getting letters we understand you have a daughter living here from rabbi um who's on here well rabbi annis perhaps yes okay was the chairman of the board of the Talmud Torah that was looking, that we're looking, you know.
United Hebrew Scripture. We understand that your daughter living here and would you like to come to the west and you know and so on and so forth And we like to have you come down here to see And it was Chalamet Fesach that year And Meyer Gwynn, he just came down, you know, and he thought, well, you'll see. Although he felt, he wasn't in Milwaukee long enough, still he felt that he had produced there. And we began to talk about him. By that time we found out Nina was pregnant. And we began to think, are we going to live a thousand miles away from our kids?
You know, if we're going to be there to see the grandchildren grow up and so on and so forth. And anyhow, he came here and he asked for many things. And we got a call. One of the things which he found afterwards was a mistake. He said he wanted nothing to do with finance, nothing to do with the business, and he wanted to do education. And of course, Pearl Eberstein did. When he came then... So anyhow, they finally called him and told him everything that he wanted they would give to him. So, and we decided that after all, for our children's sake, our life's sake, and so on and so forth, we should be thinking of this sort of thing.
So we moved here to Dallas. So then this was in 1953 that you came in that, to Dallas. To Dallas. And he came as the principal of the Hebrew school. That's right. Let's go back in time. Can you give me a little sketch about Mr. Gallin as to where he was born and how he came to the United States? well when you met him and your life he was born in europe um he went to the volatim the volatim yeshiva where was he where was in europe in russia well then it was uh lithuania it became russia okay poland russia you know all the changes over there but he was at the volatim and there he got, he studied I think, 60 hours a day.
His parents, his father had come to this country much earlier and his father was a rabbi. There's a big degree of blood. Handsy, very handsy. And then sent for the family. And soon after they couldn't, he died. In fact, the matter, Meyer's youngest sister was named after the father. His mother was pregnant, and he died at the time. Then when did he come to the United States? Meyer did not come to the United States. I don't know what year they came, but he was left in Europe to study. And he lived first, I think, with a grandfather. And then he lived with an aunt and an uncle.
And he studied all the time. It's 16 hours a day, you know. and that's where he got he happened to have very very good teachers I don't remember kids may have a tape on that very very good teachers and he's gotten his Hebrew I guess that and he was very much interested literature so he stole went to the library got books and read them at night you know and things like that in order to uh he got a pretty broad education as far as literature he really was so well versed in literature that i was always amazed you know but so he must have gotten a very very big background his father was a rabbi but would not take a position as a rabbi because he did not see, after all, the law the real law is that you should make a living by your knowledge and he would not take a job making a living because he was a rabbi and had the knowledge and then they wanted him to take his beard off you know, things like that and he wouldn't do that eventually, he took a position in Boston I think it was a short time I think he was there before God.
Meyer came here in 1912. And his letter took him to New York to the yeshiva And he said when he went into that place he lost all appetite for the type of learning and the whole setup He came back and said he was not going to go into it. How old was he then? I think it was, well, 1912. So he was 91 when he died. I think it was, I don't know, it must have been about 16 years or so, I think, something like that. And he then had a rabbi in Cleveland. He said, well, if you're not going to go into the rabbinate, you at least have to go into education.
Of course, he had a pretty good back, but he started teaching, almost teaching right away. He was going to school. He got a position in Lorain, Ohio, and went to high school there. And then he went to different, he went to a small college and degree, and then he went to Ohio State. He did not complete the university because he was helping to enlist men for the army to go to Palestine. And he was rejected. He got all these people to go into the army and he was rejected because of his eyes. Was that the Jewish legion? you're referring to do you know the year that he was enlisted for the jewish legion i don't know 1917 perhaps 16.
uh he was in he was at college okay this shows 19 he was at the highest date when this happened okay okay but that was the general That was general at the time. Okay, go ahead. And he taught in Lorain, Ohio, graduated high school there, and then came back to Cleveland. And he taught, well, when I met him, he was principal of the school at Rabbi Goldman They had a Hebrew school in Rabbi Goldman synagogue That was one of the schools And he had the largest school in Cleveland I mean, this was, he was only a teacher then, and he became, Dr. Friedland, came from New York, and set up, the schools in Cleveland were wonderful, he was a wonderful educator.
And so he got his training under Dr. Friedland, and when we met, it was accidental, I wasn't supposed to meet him i was supposed to meet some i was we were living in this martin marietta ohio and you know the brockmans all come from marietta the brockmans and the whole family we're like one family let me fix a cup of coffee tell me about marietta and uh the life in marietta and you're meeting Mr. Gowan. I met him in Cleveland. We were on a trip to, on our way to Chicago. We stopped in Cleveland. This was also a strange story. My father was, they were in the oil oil supply business and also had a medals.
About what year? Well, I was married. This must have been 1924, 23, 24. and some men they had they were selling metals with a carload and they had bids you know they did bids and so on so some men came in from cleveland and came to the office and my father was in the metals section and um they had already sold the the metals but they started talking about He's a Jewish fellow. And everything's in Cleveland. And for where do you come from? Find out that he's the husband of my mother's girlfriend in Europe. I mean, there's something, I mean, there's such an unusual thing.
Where were your parents from? Our parents were from Kovner, the Paraná. Lipplachs. Lipplachs. And my father must have come here in 18 Now I was born in 1901 I was born nine years after my folks were married. That would be what? 1892, then would be... My father must have been in the early 90s, because they were married in this country. They were engaged in Europe, and my father, as soon as he started making a living, was in business, he sent for my mother. So it must have been, my father must have been here in the early, I mean the late 90s, in the 1880s, something like that.
I was born in La Crosse, Wisconsin. How they got to La Crosse, I don't know. I think they came to Superior. There must have been Lonslite, that's how, you know, they came to Superior, Wisconsin. How they got to Marietta, I don't know. I mean, how they happened to get there, I don't know. No, this was La Crosse. Marietta, I know, they bought a business. You've heard of the Travis family in Tulsa, Oklahoma. They're millionaires in the oil business. My father and uncle bought the Travis business in Marietta, Ohio, because Appelman, who was the brother-in-law of the Travis's, was a landslide of my father's. So in that way, they bought this business in Marietta, Ohio.
We came to Marietta, Ohio in 1913, after the 1913 floods, which were terrible floods at that time. And then we, as I say, we came to Mary in 1913, and this was a community that a holiday was a holiday, a family that had the troubles, it was everybody's trouble, and it was like one big family. Sukkos, for instance, was celebrated by everybody. Everybody's house was listed on Siddhartha's Torah. Now, I understand you said there were like 30 Jewish families in there, yeah? 30 or 35 Jewish families. Yes. And they kept up... Had a little shul. A house that the rabbi, the teacher lived in. One of our first teachers was Nadel, who also became a millionaire.
He went to Tulsa where Hoba, and he wasn't a good teacher, but he was a smart guy. He went to, I think he was related a little bit to the Travis family, I think. He went to Tulsa and became a millionaire. And I saw him a number of years ago. They came here to a wedding to one of the Brahmins. For instance, the Rameys, I don't know if you know the Rameys. She was a sister to Eli Brahm. She and our close girlfriends in Marietta. And at her daughter's wedding, Nalil came in and his wife and the daughter and so on and so forth, so I saw him.
He was one of our first teachers. My first teacher at the cross was a Hebrew teacher who had just come over from Europe, didn't know English, and he lived a month at our house and a month that he had a room, I remember both, but got no meals. And he, of all the Hebrew that I have, he was a grammarian like nobody's business to this day. He died just two years ago. When we came, when Meyer took the position in St. Paul, he was displacing, not really, but he was through, he was a principal of the school, school and schools he was a marvelous teacher but not that much of he started st.
Paul for a number of years and Meyer took the position as the administrator in St. Paul at that time but he was my first Hebrew teacher and he insisted that we talk Hebrew at the table and things like that I mean he lived on in the place really And of all the teachers we had and we had plenty of them all through the years I think the only thing I have left is what Gordon taught us Now, how did you get to Cleveland? Well, this man said, oh, and he was very impressed with our family, you know, have I got a guy for you, you know, have I got a guy for you.
And we were planning a trip to Chicago. We were going to a wedding. We were driving. And they had planned to have me meet this fellow. It was summertime. They had a summer home or something, and they were there. The woman who became my sister-in-law was a cousin to this fellow, and they were friends that lived near the handlers. And she came in when we came over there, when we were visiting, she came over to look me over for her cousin. And after she met me, I guess, so the story goes, she says, uh-uh, that's not for him. that's for my my brother-in-law meyer you know so she was going to fix that anyhow we've been in cleveland on the way back to the wedding we were in cleveland for a week and met meyer the night before we left and he knew nothing about it and his mother had come over also to look the over i guess my mother they just right around the corner they were friends and uh we were having a a good time in the meantime with the young our young cousins and so on and so forth and she said and i knew that they were fishing to get me to meet this and i was you know these independent teenagers and so on and so forth well it's more than teenagers and my funny i was 20 21 and i says oh sure you want me to come over she's going to have a follow-up you're not even coming over to say goodbye to the handlers my mother didn't know about the situation you see them you Well, Meyer had come that day.
You see, sometimes Maslow, he was supposed to go on a boat trip with his brother and sister-in-law. It was a gloomy day, so he thought they weren't going. They called from the dock and wanted to know where he was He says well I thought you wouldn go He had had white trousers on you know blue jackets they used to wear that And he got a dress and put on old work you know old things And so this is the way he came to his brother house And they said we go over and pick up mother and we take her home He was living at home you know his mother And that's where he came and that's how we met.
And it was just the end of the education and pretty soon the handler started right at Weston. This Mara gal wants to come down to visit us. And I said, what the devil walked? I don't want him to come down. You know, in the small town, I don't want him to not be interested, so on and so forth. And they knew you and knew you and knew you so long as we're down for several weeks. weeks and i said that was just when his vacation ended and he wanted to come down to marietta so i said nothing doing nothing doing nothing doing one day my mother comes up i was just getting up with something she said what will hurt you if he comes down to the to visit us so i said okay let me come you know just like that of course my mother wrote to the handlers and to invite him to come down for a weekend.
And he came to Marietta for that. I paid no attention. And you'd never believe it, knowing the type that Meyer is and everything. I would never believe that my grandchildren went home. They just didn't believe me. Meyer proposed to me before he left Marietta. He knew that he had enough sense of peace, but we had an open house. I had brothers, and dancing was learned at our house, and the troller was going, you know, and there were young people. And there were fellows that came around, and he wanted to put a foot in the door, you know. And he said, will you write to me?
And I said, yeah, you'll be lucky if I send you a postcard. You know, he was always kidding. And he wrote, he started writing on a train. No, that was before airplanes. It just so happened that the train did not run on Sunday, so we had to stay at our house, I mean hotels. You'd go to a hotel, then if you had a guest, so I stayed at your house. And I'll never forget, so I went upstairs, and I was crying I went up said to my mother and said what the matter She came to me and then her mother come to here I said he had the rock nerve to propose to me Imagine that he only knows me a few days He has the rock nerve to propose I was so mad.
I had no intentions of ever getting connected. And after, I got a letter from him every day. And after a certain length of time, I think it was maybe 10 days or so, whatever it was, I was getting letters. So I sat down. He said, what are you doing? And I says, well, I'm answering one of the letters. I thought you weren't quarantined. I said, you taught me to be civil to people. I says, I feel I should be civil to him. And that's how I felt. And that's how I never, it was a year and a half in Cleveland before I met this guy that I was supposed to meet.
I was married a year and a half at the time. Where were some of the cities that you went to after you married? We were in Cleveland three years before we went to Indianapolis. Two and a half years. I think we were, Nina was about two and a half years old. And we were in Indianapolis 19 years. And he developed, Meyer developed a very good school. And I told you that he felt that it had reached certain heights and it could go on from which it has. He had now built another big building in a different area already, you know, and so on and so forth.
They had two schools there, an outside school. Meyer used to walk five miles on Saturday because they had a Saturday minion for the kids. the school we lived on the north side and when we came to look for for a house the one who was president of the women's auxiliary she went with him to look she says you're going beyond the creek i mean we were living far north like you know at the time and it was five miles to the south side school now after indianapolis and from indianapolis we went to milwaukee That's when he started a... Today school? No, no, no. A new one.
There were five schools in Milwaukee. They had a Talmud Torah after school, then they had a congregational school, and they had the Yiddish. How long was he in Milwaukee? He was there five years in Milwaukee. And then from there? From Milwaukee we came to Dallas. Tell us about the Hebrew School and how it was in Dallas, the Dallas experience. What was it? A lot of the... This is the school? The United Hebrew School. United Hebrew School, when it came here. Okay. It had to be developed. be developed i mean um i don't think they had any problem with five day a week school we were having a five day a week school here and this was 1953 yeah about that and um actually i mean i don't know how much development was here because you had to fight the alum teachers I mean, the parents wanted...
...cooperation in the school, and I think it developed pretty well until... Then they built Sherath Israel. In North Dallas, you mean? In North... Sherath Israel. Okay. And the general idea was that the Talmud Torah would meet in Sherath Israel. Then Rabbi Silverman came in at that time, and there was this kind of action. Nobody said that the Talmud Torah wasn't going to move in there, but the plans were being made under, you know, with the big shots in the city. And I think it was Kaplan, a wonderful one who was always interested and concerned. Which Kaplan? Saul? Saul Kaplan, no. Not Kenny husband is that Saul Kaplan No Sherman Sherman Kaplan No Sherman Kaplan No Sherman Kaplan He was always interested in the topics And he gave Meyer a hint that he really should look for another position and Pinky Silverman was one of his teachers.
And when Meyer came here, the committee had already picked Pinky Silverman and what was his wife? Elsie. Elsie picked them for teachers, had already hired them as teachers before Meyer came. well i don't want this if you want it so pinky and with entity but she was no teacher and as meyer has done with others that he's had he's always been particular upon his teachers he went all the way to maine once to get a couple who were marvelous teachers he had one teacher that came to Indianapolis. She had had teacher training and all, but she was very green, and he told her, after she'd been there a year, he told her to go and take another year or two, either postgraduate work or summer.
Now, of course, I think she's retired now, but she was head of all of the elementary Hebrew schools in all of los angeles up until a couple years ago and so he said he said he would walk in the classroom and it was terrible spelling that she didn't know he'd really turn out to anything and he finally told her he could not work with her i mean she just wasn't standard so at that time um i think brody was a teacher i don't remember the teachers at that time And of course, when he left, Pimki Soberman, I think, he took Pimki Soberman for the school in the Church of Israel.
There was a hint of, I mean, Annis at the time, they said, well, maybe they'll put carry on his finances He wouldn stay under those conditions at all First of all he didn have to do this sort of thing And second of all he wasn going to work with us at all He felt that they needed more than that. So that's what he went to St. Paul. What was his curriculum like at the United Hebrew Schools when he was principal? What were some of the things he was interested in? First of all, Meyer always felt there should be literature, there should be history besides the Bible, and so on.
And those are the things I think that, I just sort of just glanced through one section there of curriculum, and he has all the things set up for the holidays not only what does it mean but what does it involve I mean he went to the root of things rather than you find it's only the place is superficial it is so superficial that it's sickening really was the language yeah what was the language of instruction Was Hebrew? They tried to have Hebrew as the language of instruction. I think they followed, Meyer, through most of it, was evrit, evrit, as much as possible. And I think his curriculum was set up that way.
And as it was through, I think, through all of his teaching. After all, Meyer was in teaching 55 years. and like somebody asked me when he said what are the kids asking like after all the sabbatich I said when he wanted to relax he went into class to teach he did he I mean he would go into a class to teach he wasn't on the teaching staff until he retired when he after he had his first heart attack or had a second heart attack, retired completely. But when he semi-retired, he gave up. In the meantime, he asked for an assistant. And one of all the people in the world he did not know whom he was sent at the time and they were looking for an assistant for him And they practically hired an assistant who was at one of his former pupils.
He did not know who the assistant, and he was the last one that he would have chosen, not because of knowledge. he had the knowledge of his personality one of his kids in indianapolis did he um also include grammar he would oh yeah definitely oh definitely i mean he went to the basic uh you know it wasn't to him learning to read he said you could learn to read in five or six lessons That is not the main thing of learning. That you can learn in no time. It's the things that you learn when you have some of the language. Now, you said that the Hebrew School, the United Hebrew Schools, had a branch in North Dallas.
Yes. The main building then was... Was in the South Dallas. But then the community was moving north a lot. and uh he had a principal i mean the principal of school he had very good relations with the with the principal of school and it just so happened that so many of the teachers at the at the what was the name of the school um here on our site where they had their class higher higher that so many of the teachers came from small towns in texas they didn't even know what a jew was and the principal had asked him to speak on the morning you know what they used to have the morning lectures so before classes to speak to them about the background of judaism and so on and so forth so they had a pretty good relationship as far as the school and uh uh he's uh very accommodating i mean to to the school and the the kids i mean the jewish kids well now the main building of the hebrew school was still was it at the hertz high we still lived south side yes but it was her to high school yeah it was always at her The Chai-Kol synagogue.
Mm-hmm. And... The Talmud Torah. The Talmud Torah was there. And I think it was Abramowitz, the rabbi there? Yes, at a little sacrum. Yes. He was there most of the time. Mm-hmm. Of course, we became very, very close friends every time we came. We miss him. Yes. Myra missed him terribly when we moved here, because he wasn't here. Mm-hmm. Because every time we came to visit, he always spent a lot of time with the Brahmawoods. I liked him very much. And the fact of the matter is that we lived, when we had to go north, we bought on Orchid Lane, we were on Orchid Lane, and it was too far to walk.
And so a Brahmawoods had a minion on the high holidays. So I used to go there for the high, you know, to walk to his home. They had a minion for the high holidays. Sheriff Israel was not completed, and still it was quite a distance. But at that time, they might have walked, but it wasn't completed. What year was that? Well, the year we left. We were here, came here in 53, so we left in 55, I guess, or in 56. and Israel wasn't quite complete, it was just in the process of being and they were supposed to move in that fall without Myers' knowledge that they were had already planned a congregational school and so he left her with the general treatment of all these men who were supposed, they were all the leaders of the Talmud Torah, and they were the leaders of Sheriff Israel.
They were the same people, practically. So there was a lot of under, and there were factions that became, there were factions, people who felt it was a terrible thing that they were doing, and a lot of people didn't want to go to the school. So there were factions at the time. What was Rabbi Annas position and the other Abbonim that were involved in the United Kingdom schools Well they were very active Rabbi Annis was active in the school I think he was the most active one, and Weissfeld was also interested in the... because he was out of the picture, see? He left. And we had a feeling.
I had a feeling. We were friendly because we... go to the old shul, you know, and we'd walk. That's going to the bridge there with all the bugs, all those June bugs. And so we would walk together very often, going to shul on the Saturday morning or Friday. And I had a feeling that they were thinking of leaving. He wasn't very happy. He wasn't very happy here. because there were difference of opinion already of the type of synagogue it should be, I think. We were beginning, oh, I'd say, hi, I'm the Rabbi Silver, who came from the seminary. I think Weisfeld must have been from the Yeshua.
Silver must have been from the seminary, I suppose? He was from the seminary. You were talking about Rabbi Weisfeld and some of the changes that were about to take place. I felt that they were thinking about a change, because we were talking about moving from one community to another. One would think that the times that we moved, that it was discontent. But it wasn't. Because Meyer more wanted to advance education in other places when he felt that he had, you know, done certain things. And so we would talk, you know, about certain things. And one time he turned to her and he said, you see, it's not bad to go to another community.
So I had that feeling all along that there were things brewing there. And it wasn't too long, I mean, that he left. I don't know whether he left. while we were still here or whether he left after we left, I don't remember. But we saw him in California We were in San Diego and we called and they came down to the motel They wanted us to come there and have a dinner with me. I said, no, we don't know how to get there. My brother and his wife were with us also. And my brother's wife at this time had been married to a former rabbi.
And she was, of course, he had died. And my brother was hers and his first sweetheart. After all the marriages, his wife died and her husband died about the same time. And they married. And anyhow, so they used to come to California for about six months. I remember to Connecticut. So the two, when they came down, the two Rebensens, who were not Rebensens anymore, because he was in education he went into education when he went to san diego and we're talking of how wonderful it is not to be a rebbinson so they were quite happy and uh saying then when they would come into los angeles and several times they called and came over where did you go when you left dallas Which community?
In the 50s. Did you go back to St. Paul? Not back. You went there for the first time? We went there for the first time. We've been there 13 years. And then you came back to Dallas? No. When Meyer retired, he had a second heart attack. Okay. And the doctor said, if you want to live, get out of this climate. Okay. It's too cold. So, after all, no one could understand why we didn't move to Dallas, because our children were, by that time, Diva was, you know, Mary was living here and so on, so we'd come back to visit. So, Dallas wasn't new to us, we'd come one surprise a year, because it was easier for us to come than all of them to come here.
So, we moved to Los Angeles. I think Meyer didn't want to come to Dallas, really. That's what the children, I think, were a little concerned about. He never wanted to come to Dallas. Meyer was never bitter about anything. I never saw him bitter about anything. But I think down underneath he had to It the first time in his life he been hurt You know I mean that Because in most communities where he was they really showered so much love and cooperation that this was something entirely new to him. Really, I don't know anywhere that he was that he didn't... A man that was loved by so many people.
It's just amazing. And here he was hurt, I think. And he finally forgave. I mean, the kids would say to him, will you ever forgive the community? He says, well, it's a community, you know. But I don't think he ever, although he became involved, I mean, he felt he could do anything. he was going to do it and so we went to los angeles and actually he went out of a sick bed because we were in st paul we expected he had a heart attack just when we were moving i had had the movers already we had rent they had already rented our duplex and um Meyer went up for check some doctors with the hospital you can't drive home he's had a heart attack and he really had a very bad heart attack at that time didn't know it and here i was we packed all those books most of his library his all of his hebrew books
he sent to seminary los angeles and while we lived there he used it he used to go to the library and he knew what he wanted but he came here and wanted something there is not a decent hebrew library the one who has the best library he'd live here is uh what's his name victor richmond's son harvey harvey he has the best so myra used to go when we first came here he was in touch with harvey quite a bit and after a while he when harvey was having problems i think and so on and so forth whatever it was and meyer was not so
strong you know anymore that although he was driving up until about three years ago um it became a little more difficult and you don't take ... because he was in business most of the time, that time. So he has the best Hebrew library in the city of Meir. He's gone to the temples, he's gone to the seminary. Sheriff Israel doesn't have much of a Hebrew library. There's nobody to use it. Really, when you come to think of it, and I think this was very sad for Meir. Aditya Khatni Vemin, S. Gain S. Tish. There was no one that he could really feel that he was getting in.
He was giving. He was not getting. Yes. How long have you been back in Dallas? Eight years. Eight years. So you came back in 1977? It was eight years in November. that were here. And as I say, he was giving, and he was happy, happy and giving, but he wasn't getting, which was sad, which was not good in a sense. How long did he have his Hebrew chugivri? I think maybe seven years. His Hebrew circle. His Hebrew circle. then for about up until about a year ago he was going to golden acres once a week and for a while he had in fact the matter is he had worked out with shore he felt that he was going to go back but i i felt that he was too weak i mean he didn't have that energy to give not only to give there but when he went to golden acres he had to you know be around for all day practically and i felt it was too much but he had worked out the curriculum for a group to go back to go to have a group as soon as he felt better he had worked one out about six months ago or so but uh and he thought he really thought no he proved and he still felt that he was going to go back to uh to have a group or two with at golden He had first he had a group I think he had different things He had a U group and he had a Bible group He had a Mostly about history and what her name Hennig Reesman just told me last week, two weeks ago, that her mother was in the Jewish group.
And she said the only one that made her feel like a person was Maya. He accepted whatever they had to give of themselves without talking down to them. And he understood, you know, the personalities. And so she said, she always said he was the only one that made her feel like she was still a man. And I think that's what most of them felt, you know, when he was there. And he enjoyed it. He really loved going, he loved going there. But there are very few there anymore that most of them that really had some intellectual curiosity. I don't know. Very few there. And someone said to me the other day, something about books, they had books and everything that were given to gold makers.
I said, don't make that mistake. They're not used. are not used very few touches a yiddish a yiddish book there they can get them someplace where there's some activity but there's no activity meyer did go down there he went many many days down there and kind of straightened out their library and um yiddish books he had so many you know people they give up their parents their parents libraries and uh where they send it to gold makers so they have lots of them they have a lot of new books maybe some reading english books i don't know but i'm sure that the yiddish books are But his experiences recently, until his death, what, a month ago?
No. He hasn't been there for several months, about six months. But the experience was that there were no real intellectuals? There were no well there were one or two There was one man who was a real intellectual and he went to live in Philadelphia He had a son that wasn't happy there, but he would call Meyer very, very often. Now, wait a minute, who's his son? His son's a doctor. Politski, Politski, Politski. His son is a doctor. I can't think of that. Yeah, let's plant something like that. Yeah, yeah. And he could sit down with Meyer. I mean, he was an intellect. And since he died, I mean, maybe one or two can.
I mean, he would have a group that would be good listeners. You know what I mean? But not so you had to work out things that they could understand or could discuss, because he always wanted a discussion group. He wanted them to talk. So I found a list of, in a tablet, I found a list of the students there. I used to check off, you know, just to make it feel like in a learning setting. And yet his students of long years kept up with him and he heard for him. There was one fellow in Los Angeles that when we came to visit, no matter where we were, they looked so far away, Wherever he could have a moment.
His wife told me he just idolizes mine. We were in a restaurant several weeks ago with Viva and Bob. Vincent's out at... Plain or not, I mean, to clean us someplace. Most of us, perhaps. And some fellow comes over, You're Mr. Gallen, aren't you? I mean, he recognized him even though he's changed a great deal in the last couple of years. He lost a lot of weight. But he came over he was one of his former students years ago Do you know about how many students there were in the Hebrew School the United Hebrew School at the time I have no idea. I have no idea.
There may be something in the records, some of the records, because he has some records here. I'm just perusing through. he has uh palpitor of st paul he has uh students and uh you know some of the reports of the school and so on and so forth so there may be something now it's going to take a while to go through those records because a fact of the matter is both of us although he took the course and i took it with them in psychology at a correspondence course at columbia university and he's got all the lectures all of the you know papers and that and what's the feinstein said he would like to have it and there's there's so many things just a couple things
that i just i haven't i found a book that zemma had written and i called sarah sarah ruler and asked if you would like to have it because in case i'm sure she said i'd love to have it for my daughter so those things that i give back to people i'll be glad to give back to people what about the level of support today did he feel that there was any level of support for any intense hebrew education on his return here only at akiba he felt that they were getting something but they they weren't getting he didn't feel he felt they were getting more
than they'd gotten anyplace else and when what's his name was here bernstein he felt that bernstein was very you know bill bernstein bill burns not bill bernstein the one that was in charge of the uh akiba oh my um mendel bernstein yeah mendel bernstein who found he had yes he found that he had done something to raise the the standards because the akiba they had they had an akiba i don't they called it akiba there was a hillel school in the early 50s and closed and that standard was very distorted i mean they didn't know where they were going he felt but he was impressed
with uh mendel bernstein's Yeah. curriculum and felt that he was doing things. Mm-hmm. Well, he was the rabbi, the first rabbi when it came to start. Yeah, when it started. Yes. And what it is now, he just didn't get intended going, but it was all difficult for him to go. Sure. Did he see any of the material for Solomon Schefter School? No, I don't think so. So he didn't have any feelings about that? Or did he have any feelings about the school? And what it was trying to do? Well, he felt, you know, that they were getting more, a whole lot more, a whole lot more than naturally the Hebrew school.
What about the parochial day school or the Jewish day school movement? How do you feel about that, and how do you feel about it? I think that he felt that that's the salvation. Because of? Because of congregational schools. He felt that the conservative congregational schools killed Jewish education That was his feeling about the congregational schools because everything come well we talked about that everything comes before the school if you talk about budgets the budget of the of the temple the upkeep of the temple the rabbis like the whatever you know of temple the schools are just a bar mitzvah machine and that's that's the way he felt it they were not getting anything and now there are some congregational schools that we've known of for instance in cleveland rabbi brickner he put a brother his temple had a marvelous school years back all the all the way back uh as a congregational school let's talk about dallas yes about the congregational schools here um did he feel all of them were strictly he had that general general idea that the congregation