Ruth Witebsky Rosen
Ruthie Rosen's parents came from Russia near Kiev. Her father arrived first through Ellis Island and settled in St. Paul, Minnesota, while her mother came through Galveston in 1910. Married as teenagers, the couple had three daughters, all born in St. Paul: Tilly, Ruth (born 1916), and Evelyn. The family later came to Texas, with her mother's family, the Tucks, settling in Fort Worth. Ruthie's father, Andrew Witebsky, followed and the family made its home in Dallas, where her grandfather Isidore Witebsky, a tailor who worked for Neiman Marcus, and her Aunt Charlotte were also part of their lives.
The family first lived in North Dallas near Highland and Caroline Streets, close to the Weinstein Bakery and a mikvah the children thought was a swimming pool, then moved to Colonial Avenue and later to Irving Street in South Dallas. Her father, Andy Witebsky, was known as the Incomparable Barber, whose clientele included figures such as Fred Florence, Carl Hoblitzell, and the singer Jan Peirce, for whom he would close his shop to cut their hair when they came to town. Her mother worked as a dressmaker at home, and the three girls kept house, cleaning each Friday to make Shabbos.
Ruthie received her Jewish education at the Arbeiter Ring school at 1618 Forest Avenue, where teachers taught in Yiddish and English, and she became a skilled elocutionist. She attended Sunday school at Shearith Israel and was confirmed at Temple, and later married Nathan Rosen there in 1938. After high school she went to work for the Morris Sales Company in Deep Ellum, where she met Nathan, who had come to Dallas with his family from Michigan. They ran a grocery store on Elm Street, and she was active in the Council of Jewish Juniors, Hadassah, and other organizations. Ruthie also performed in Yiddish theater. She and Nathan shared fifty years together until his death in 1988.
Full Transcript
My name is J. Jacobs and I'm speaking to Ruth Rutepski-Rosa in her home in Dallas, far north Dallas. It is March 23rd, 2004 and we're going to talk about your growing up in Dallas and what Dallas was like, and how do you like to be referred to? Ruthie Roseman. What is your home address? 6031 Homestead Court, Dallas 75252. Okay. Are you the first generation to be born in Dallas? I don't think so. No, there were people... Of your family. Of your family. Of my family. I need to be specific. Oh. Yeah. I think so. Where were your parents from? Russia. Kiev. And how did they come to Dallas?
My dad came first with his family. Came to Ellis Island and was in St. Paul, Minnesota. My mother came in 1910. from Russia and came through Galveston. My dad came after her and took her to St. Paul where the three of us were born. Now had they been married before they came to the States? I think so. I'm really not clear on that, but they had to be married because he came after her and took us to St. Paul. and that's where we were born. So I think they were married already. They were 16 years old. I cannot imagine being 16 years old and married.
By the time they were 17 my sister Sister Tilly was born Two years later in 1918 I was born and then my younger sister was born Evelyn and we lived in St Paul How did you come to Dallas? The story is that my dad at a young age had not sown his wild oats so to speak. My mother took her three little girls and came to Fort Worth where her parents lived. For some time, I don't know how long it was that my dad came after her and we came to Dallas. And that's how we came to be Dallas, Texas. Had she come with her parents?
Yes, she came with her family, her mother and father and her, she had brothers and sisters. Their name was Tuck, and as I say, settled in Fort Worth. But I like the story about my dad not sowing his wild oats, so she left him, quotation marks. And he came after her and he came to Dallas. Why they came to Dallas, unless they didn't want to live with her, in the same town with her folks, I don't know about that. But he was a barber in Dallas and was known as the incomparable barber. And his name was? Andy. And what was the name of his barber shop?
And he was known as the incomparable barber. His clients were the movie stars who came to Dallas at the time and the, I don't know what you'd call them, like Jan Pierce, and were his clientele. any time that these people were close, gave concerts in Dallas, he closed his barber shop and went to cut their hair Jan Pierce was one of his clientele that he really followed all along Now when did he come to Dallas when did your parents come to Dallas I had no idea The only thing that I know that I remember and figure out that if I don know three of us were already born and my younger sister was two years younger than me.
I was born in 1916. Did that make me 88? I think. Figure that. Yes. That makes me 88. So we came here we had to have come here as babies as young children we were not in school yet but the three of us were born so. Um your father's full name was? I learned later was Andrew Witebski, W-I-T-E-B-S-K-Y, and he was known as Andy Incomparable, Incomparable Barbara because of his clientele. Fred Florence, Hoblitzell, what was Hoblitzell's name? I think Carl. I'm not sure. I'm not sure either, but you know who I'm talking about. The movie Mogum. And when the war came, and his barbers, he had two barbers, Moe's Gaffelberg, that name should be familiar.
And then there was a barber named Carlos. When the war came, they made it hard for the customers, and he used to take appointments. He was criticized for that because when his clientele like Mr. Florence and Mr. Hobbit, Jan Pierce was here, he made room for them so that they didn't have to come to the shop and sit and wait. He took, made appointments and went by that for these people to come in and get their work done. Where was his shop located? Irving and Young Right there by Butler Brothers Do you know the circumstances that your folks left Europe left Russia No I don't.
I really don't. it's strange that you think they're always going to be here so you don't ask those questions and later you realize why didn't I tell us about the Jewish your Jewish education and what was Jewish life like at home We were not strictly kosher, but we obeyed the Jewish laws. The young table were always observed. My mother was a dressmaker so her three little girls took care of the house more or less. And on Friday we cleaned the house all over and made Shabbos. We lived what I thought at the time was a swimming pool but it was down the street from the mikvah.
and after we had the house all clean, made Shabbos in the house, we went to the mikvah that I thought was a sending pool to observe Shabbos. Where did you live? What was your address? Way back there was Highland, I guess it's Highland Street. that was I remember that street okay I think it was Highland does that ring a bell yes yes that later became accurate okay it's the very end of accurate yeah okay what was the nearest intersection what were some of the streets in your neighborhood I absolutely don't remember all right was that in the northern part of what was downtown at that time?
North, there was North Dallas, yeah. Was it perhaps, was there other, were there other names for them? Not that I remember. Were there a lot of Jewish people that made it? Oh yeah, all the Jewish people at that time. Tell us about the neighborhood. As we said, there was the Weinstein Bakery was on one corner. Then there was a building, I don't know what the building was. I know my mother went there to night school, the bakery and with this half must have been a shul that I could have been to Ferris Dizzo I don't know that we went to the mikveh on Friday. The Rosenthal's, the Greenstein's, the Weinstein's but I don't remember the intersection I know Carolyn Street, Caroline that's the street I'm trying to think so it must have been Carolyn and Highlands Was perhaps Harwood near there?
I don't remember Harwood but McKinney McKinney all down in that area were those streets American Beauty Flower was in that area About what years did you live with us? I have no idea. About how old were you? I don't remember going to school in that area so I had to be six maybe six maybe five four five or six because I don't remember going to school yet Cumberland School comes to mind So maybe I went there. I doubt it. I don't think I went to school until we came to South Dallas. Where did you live in South Dallas? What was your next time? Colonial Avenue.
And the address? Oh, go ahead. Colonial, 30? 31-13. And the Cross Street? Pennsylvania I believe Pennsylvania and Peabody Wendelkin that where I went to school I remember that It the Colonial Hill School Is that ringing bells with you Yeah Colonial Hill School I think, yeah, that's where I must have started school. Yeah. And that was on Peabody or Pennsylvania, someplace in there. All the people that I realize now were our neighbors, the people that I mentioned before. And in that area were there others that were our neighbors? In that near Wendelkin where the school was, what was the neighborhood like that? Oh, yeah. Gordon, Helen Gordon was one of the families there.
I remember her. Helen Gordon. I'm not clear on that. I really am not. Now, you talked about observing holidays at home and Shabbos. And Pesach. What were the Seders like? Seders, we were just at the table and had the Seder. It wasn't, I don't remember having a lot of people over. It was just our family. My grandfather lived with us, Isidore Witebski. And I had an aunt, maybe I'm rambling on, but. You're fine. An Aunt Charlotte. And this was strange that I was older than my aunt. But my grandmother lived on St. Louis. But my grandfather and my grandmother, as I remember, never lived together.
she had fallen into a tub of boiling clothes in those days they had they boiled the clothes she fell into that tub and as I remember her she was always scarred so my grandfather and Charlotte lived with us that part of the family the Witexki family stayed in St Paul in Minneapolis They were all there It was only Charlotte that was here And so our Seders were family Seders, that's all. We didn't know from the big Seders like we are used to now. It was just us. Were they long? Were they short? Were they other things? It weren't that long. It was not that long drawn out.
I remember mother cooking. I remember. And I'm trying to think now where we bought the Pesach ticket things. Because in those days you couldn't get them in the grocery store. You had to go to a market, a Jewish market. Ay, ay, ay. Where'd you go? I have no idea. Weinstein Bakery I remember. But I don't remember anything else. I really don't. With frowns around? Or golden? Well that was in South Dallas at the time. Goldens was on Irving. Goldens? Was that on Irving Street? No. How about Colonial? Colonial, that's right. They were on Colonial. Goldens. Yeah, I remember that very, very vividly. But the Seders when we lived, when we were little, young, and we lived on Highland Street, or what was the other street that I named?
Caroline? Caroline. Mm-hmm. I don't remember any stores being around there. Absolutely. Because we were young and it didn't matter. We knew that that was what it was going to be. Mm-hmm. What about the Jewish education? The first thing that I remember about the Jewish education was the Aberdeen School. Tell us about the Aberdeen School. There was a building on Forest Avenue and they brought teachers from New York We did not have teachers here per se but they always had a lair they called it and they came and had classes and programs. I was an elocutionist. Is that a good word now? Elocution? I don't even think there's a word in the dictionary anymore.
Elocution. And there were programs as I say and I'm trying to think of, how can I find, they had like markets. what is the word that they organized? It was programs. That the money, money, fundraising. Fundraising. Yeah. Um, as I say, the Arbiturine School, I got a picture here, and I'll show it to you. As I say, it was early, you know, these classes were held after regular school, so it started like, I guess we used to get out like at three o'clock, and after that there was a couple two or three classes in the Arbiterian building and we learned how to speak, how to write, how to read, all the fundamentals of education.
Were the classes carried on in Yiddish or were they translated? How were they carried on? Mostly English and then translated. I think as I, because we went and we didn't know how to speak Yiddish until we learned. So when anything came up the teacher would, Lehrer, would translate for us, this is so and so. And then we started speaking in Yiddish. The more we learned, the easier it got. Did you start speaking in Yiddish in class? Not all the time, just words that we would know. I'm trying to think, we spoke just little by little. My parents spoke Yiddish, and so we learned from them a whole lot.
And when, of course, we learned how to speak Yiddish, then they spoke Russian. Did they speak Yiddish to you? Yes, yes, and a lot of my idioms, my idioms, the words that people don't even know what I'm saying came from my parents because each family, each section of where they lived had idioms. And so that's where lots of my friends will say, oh I never heard of that. Well then when I think back, that came from my parents and my grandfather. I loved it. I wish I, well I appreciated it, but now of course I appreciate it more. I wish I'd have learned more. Did you hear Yiddish as a young kid?
Did your parents speak Yiddish at home? Yeah, yes they did. So did you have some understanding and speaking skills perhaps when you started Yiddish school, our brother Rachel? After we started school, then they spoke Yiddish all the time. And my mother, as I say, had to go to night school because she didn't know English. And I guess my dad picked it up because he was in business. My grandfather was a tailor and worked for Neiman Marcus. So he picked up English. And of course, we spoke Yiddish because we went to school. But at home, it was Yiddish. And as I said, when we learned, when we understood the Yiddish, they started speaking Russian.
Did you also learn a little Russian? Very vaguely I had forgotten, whatever. But every now and then something comes to mind that I didn know was Russian at the time Just was just a word And now I have fun because at the synagogue there the Russian men working and every now and then a phrase will come to me and they translate it for me. And that's interesting. I love that. I I like languages. You mentioned that you went to a colonial school. What was school like at that point in time? Colonial Hill School. Yeah, grammar school. Ginger, I really... I don't know what the difference was.
I know we got dressed. We had clothes to go to school, we had clothes to go to Sunday school, we had clothes to play. So I know we always went to school clean dressed. The old fashioned desks, the ink wells I remember, the ink set in the hole in the desk. And it was something that we had to do. I can't, I don't think there's anything special that I remember about school because it was, that was expected of you. We had play periods. We didn't have gym until we went to ICU. But it was going to school and as I say, something you had to do.
You had to be dressed nice, clean. in those days that you the clean the cleanliness was the important part and as I say there's nothing outstanding as far as I'm concerned were there a lot of Jewish people in your class? oh yeah all of these families all of these children these people that I know now that it didn't mean anything to me at the time. Um, I'm trying to, a name is kind of playing around with me. Stop, maybe it'll come to mind later on, because not too long ago I thought of that name As I say it was nothing outstanding You went to school because that was expected of you And after that was Forest Avenue High School.
I don't have to tell you about Forest Avenue High School. Do you remember about how big the classes were at Colonial? I had no idea of how many in numbers. I know the rooms were filled, rows of desks, the teacher's desk was at the head of the class, blackboards, maybe four rows, maybe thirty kids, about. And what about the Yiddish, Arbeth the Rings shul, about how many kids were in, about how many were in your class? All those classes were very small because not everybody took to that. There was a Goldberg family, there was a Pearlstein family, Israel Pearlstein, Hillel Pearlstein, I can't remember what their parents name was, but these are the children.
It's, I'm sorry that I really didn't stop to think about all this. Like I say, it was the way of life, and you did it, and that was it. But those classes may be 15 children, about. Did you become fluent in Yiddish? Yes. And about what years did you go, from when to the end? Oy, oy, oy, what years? Absolutely. No, I absolutely cannot pick out a number. I remember standing on the stage and reciting. As I say, I was an elocutionist and anytime they had a program they always called on me and it was all in Yiddish. Not English I had no idea of how old I could be when I was Had you gone to high school Had you started high school yet Do you remember were you still in grammar school had you gone to high school Had gone to high school and still went to the Ibertoian school.
That's right school. Yes, because when we walked home from Forest Avenue High School, from Colonial Hill we lived on Irving, where Irving intersected with Forest Avenue. So when we walked from far and the Arbitering building was at that intersection, Irving and Forest. So we walked home from high school down Forest Avenue. I remember, yeah I was in high school when I was going to the Arbitering Do you remember about how old you were when you started the Arbiterian school? Absolutely not. Were you a little kid? Were you a grandma's kid? Do you remember? I think I was in high school maybe. I can't remember. I can't remember grade school in Arbiterian.
Let me get that picture for you. Can I turn it off? All right we're looking at your Arbaturing school picture now. I should have brought that. Vergelehrt is what it says. Vergelehrt. Okay. Galerth. You can translate that please. Allen? No. This is Allah. Yes, but when you translate the vert delerrant, it means please. Oh, vert, delerrant, vert, who, vert is who, vert delerrant, doesn't make sense. Yeah, let's learn. Verit. Maybe it means where it was taught. Verit was where. Where it was taught. Island, tag. I can't see that. From five to eight. Zontag. What is that? Zontag. Zontag, okay. From nine to twelve, okay. And this is from five to eight.
And if you'll translate Alatag. Alatag, I can't see that at all. It's too little. I need to get my... So if you'll translate Alatag. Every day. Very good. Yeah. All day. Every day. Because like I said, I don't know if my, that's too little for me to see. I almost remember his name, the teacher. He was the best one, but I don't know who this is. This was the teacher. Do you remember his name? Maybe it came to me. I remember, I would, I knew it, but it got away. And some of the people in this picture? Charlie, Charles Freed, his father, this is Mashe Rudnitsky.
This is Charles Freed, his father was a jewelry man. This is Kerchak. I don't know. This is Fine Glass. Remember Fine Glass? Wait a minute. This is Kerchak. This is Myers. You know. And that's Kerchak. Oh, I don't remember what her name was. This is Goldieback. Goldieback, I think so. I had no idea who that is. And that's Israel. I don't know these guys. This was last name? Hurlstein. Okay. And this is a tomboy, but I don't remember his name. This is Shea Sal Shea and this is St Marsha and Goodman This was uh Del I dare good me I not sure about her but her last name is Goodman I can think of her first name This is Will, Clara Will, and this is me, and this is her sister, Kerchak.
Oh, here, Kerchak. Braverman, Funk, Fanny Angus, Fanny Meyer. I'm not sure who these people are. This is my sister, Evelyn. I don't know who this is. This is Goodman. These two were sisters. Goodman, Goodman. Were their parents in business? Yeah. What business? This, Goodman, was the produce. That's what I knew. Okay. This is a Fried, this, his, were their brother and sister. Brother? Brother. This is an Andrus, but her first name I would not know. This is another, this is Hillel Pearlstein. Mm-mm. This looks like a Remitzby, doesn't it? Could be. This looks like an Andrus. This is my Aunt Charlie. So this is the whole, I don't know if this was the school or class.
It had to be the stool. This is too big for, I'm trying to think of the letters now. Shall I get a magnifier glass? See if we can make that out. Tell us about the classrooms of the Arbott Divincial. This is the classroom and it had desks rows of desks blackboard teacher desk I think This was an entry hall and it went into an auditorium straight This was one classroom and this evidently was another classroom, but this was an entry hall that went into the auditorium. And this is 1618 Forrest Avenue, thank you. Is that what that number is? Mm-hmm. Yes. And they were just not real large rooms.
Um, had rows of desks, maybe five desks in a row. Because if this is the whole class, I mean the whole school, you can imagine how many people in a classroom. Not very many. Rudnick, this is a rudnick here. Okay. Those names are familiar to you, aren't they? Yes, yes. Did you also go to Hebrew school or do you have any memories of the Hebrew school? This was then. We didn't go to Hebrew school. This was the school we went to. Okay. And it was Yiddish and some Hebrew. just what words that were Hebrew but we were not taught Hebrew per se. It was um I'm trying in talking I'm trying to remember his name but I'm one was a teacher and the other one must have been a principal uh president at the time.
Could he perhaps have had had another class or one of the classes or an assistant teacher? I don't know. I know. Oh, I was telling you there were ladies who, when we all started coming to class, they left coming to school so per se, and we were rowdy, then there were ladies who volunteered their time to come and keep everybody quiet because there was a class going on So we had to they had to keep these children quiet not to disturb this class until our class was called for do you remember how long the classes were no absolutely not And as I say, you don't remember it because it was something that we had to do.
Wasn't anything real geuschafted. That's a good word I don't know of in English. It wasn't elaborate. It wasn't anything that you would remember. It was something you did. And that's why I think I don't remember. I remember going into, back here was the restroom. And I remember, see this was the hallway and over here, behind this room was the restroom. and I remember climbing up the ladder and I reached in to get into the attic and there was nothing to hold on to so I fell back. Hey, I was a mozik. See, there was no grass. And see, next door to this building was the...
Alright, what's their name now? Riceberg maybe? No. They were not Jewish. Karp. The Karp family. Okay. And that Karp Wendell was Jewish. Next door to this building over here was the Karp family. And they weren't Jewish? No. I don't think they were Jewish. She was a lawyer. Elizabeth Karp. Elizabeth Karp. She was Jewish. She was Jewish? Well, then they were Jewish, but they didn't do what Jewish people did. Maybe they were reformed? No, no, they were not reformed. They were very poor. There was a lot of children. As I remember, it was about four or five children. Elizabeth, and then there was a boy and a girl.
I don't remember their names. But I remembered they were poverty. place. And Elizabeth was Jewish? See, I guess I didn't even stop to think were they Jewish or not. Where now, that's the first thing that comes to mind. You're Jewish, you're not Jewish. But at that time it didn't matter. It didn't matter to us. Didn't you say she became a lawyer? Yeah, Elizabeth Carf was a lawyer. lived on... Forest and...I don't remember the street. I'm trying to...I'm trying to think of the street that the center is on now. What is that street that the center is on? Today it's on North Haven. It was on Pocahontas in South Dallas, which was near City Park.
Well, no, we were away from City Forest. This was not City Forest. But didn't you say they lived next to the Arbacher ratio? On Forest? On Forest. You said Pocahontas. But you asked about the Jewish Community Center. Oh, oh, oh. It was Pocahontas. Yeah, that's right. At that time it was Pocahontas. What were some of the other holidays that you celebrated? Like Sukkot? Did you have a Sukkah or did you go to a Sukkah? No. Did anybody have a Sukkah? I don't remember. You don't remember? Sukkah came into my life after I married. Okay. What about Hanukkah? Hanukkah, yeah. What happened to Hanukkah? In these days, it was Hanukkah gift.
There was not a, we didn't do a whole big thing. Right. But we knew it was Hanukkah, and we knew we got Hanukkah gift. Translate Hanukkah gift, please. Hanukkah money. Right. Hanukkah money and that was the only gift that we got from our parents I don remember my grandfather at the time I don think my grandfather was involved I can place him there He came into our life when we lived on Colonial I not talking loud enough No you fine On Colonial or Irving Street From Colonial we moved to Irving Street And so that's when he came into our life. I don't remember him at this time of our lives.
About how many years do you remember that you lived in these different houses? When you moved from North Dallas, where did you move to? Moved to Colonial. Okay. I was in grade school. I remember going, in those days there was a swimming pool on every school yard. I remember going to that swimming pool. So how long did...oh and then when I...then from Colonial we moved to Irving and that was when I was in high school. So how many years did that give us? To grade school I was on...we were on Colonial. Seven years. Six years. No, seven years. Seven years was grammar school. And high school we lived on Irving school.
Four years. And from that we went to work. Talking about work, you said your mother was a seamstress. Did she work in the home? Did she work outside? In the home. In her home. In the home. The ladies used to come. I remember that. And she would fit their clothes and make them. I remember we had to cleats when there was a dress that had cleats. We had to take it downtown and that place is still there. Buttons. Beno's Lane? Beno's. Beno's, the Buttons on Lover's Lane. It was at that time. I think they're still there. Yeah, but they were downtown on Elm, I believe, at that time.
Elm, let me get on Elm Street, see that. Your Sanger Brothers? Yeah, yeah. And they had pleats, they made pleats, so when my mother had a dress that, had to make a dress that had pleats I remember we took it to Benno the material and then picked it up and would come back on paper like a cardboard And you took the material off and it was already pleated. Isn't Benno's on Lover's Lane now? See, I'm not all wrong. You're right. You're correct. What about Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur? Did you walk to the synagogue? I don't remember any synagogue. All I know is this building.
Okay. Where was there a synagogue at that time? Well, there was a good Asachem on the corner of Wendalkin and Forrest. A good Asachem. It was the Orthodox school. Yeah, I remember that. But somehow I don't remember going to any synagogues until we went to Sheriff Israel. When it was on what street? Parking. Yeah. That's the first synagogue I remember. I was not married at the time. I remember going to that synagogue. I remember when they said Yusker, all the children had to leave. And I remember thinking what in the world goes on there, that everybody had to leave. And if you didn't get out of the building before Yusker started, who knew what was going to blow up or whatever?
So the first synagogue I remember is Sheriff Israel and I was a teenager I think. What about Purim? I don't know, I don't remember celebrating at home other than we went to the, Black's bakery was this side and we got humantation and I guess that's where we bought pastry items but I think I don remember any elaborate Alright, we were talking about poem, go ahead. As I say, we knew the holidays. They were always pointed out to us, but I think we were too poor to be, to make, have elaborate parties or, like I say, we knew it was Hanukkah, we knew it was Pesach because the house was already different and we got in the Pesadica item.
What was what, what you asked me? Oh, about Purim at home. You said you didn't really celebrate except for the hamantash. We knew that was how we knew it was Purim. Did you go to shul? No. Holidays we did not go to school. Shul, synagogue. Did you go to the synagogue? I don't remember. I don't remember. Do you remember noises with the gratter when the humming was mentioned? Vaguely, vaguely, but I'm not sure of that. Okay. As I say, we didn't have transportation, number one, and while we had everything at home, we never went to a synagogue, per se. I don't even know that we were members of a synagogue in that time.
These things, we knew what it was. My mother always taught us what it was. But to make a big sinist out of it, we didn't. We had new clothes, I know. For Pesach we got new clothes. Do you remember the Depression days in the early 30s, late 20s? Yeah. That period of time? Not real, not a lot. We knew it was Depression, but we were told it was Depression. What affected us? I don't know. Absolutely not. Because there's three girls. We did not work. We were home. It wasn't like we were in the business world. I don't know. I think I kind of vaguely remember it affected my dad's business.
evidently his business fell off. I don't know. I'm not real sure. And I hate to just guess about it. Right. Sheriff Israel, your affiliation with Sheriff Israel, you said when did they join or when did you become a member of Sheriff Israel? After I married. Okay, tell us about your meeting and your... We were married at Sheriff Israel. And as being members, I don't know anything about that. We didn't know we had to be members. Today you have to be a member. But in those days, absolutely nothing. We knew it was the synagogue. We went to, was it Sunday school? Did we call it Sunday school?
Well, we went to Sheriff's or when it was on Aiken there. We went there, I remember the rabbi, Lil Rabbi, when my little girl died he was a rabbi. Gold? Gold married us so this had to be the rabbi before Gold, when we were going to Sunday school. Her name was Lil but I can remember their last name right now What Tomorrow Thursday I go look at the board That the only thing I know We went to Sunday school and as I say there were always clothes that you wore at school and you wore at Sunday school About how old were you out of grammar school?
Were you still in grammar school when you went to Sunday school? I don't...I can't remember all of that. Did we go to Sunday school? I guess I was in both. We were in grammar and went into high school. Mostly I believe it was grammar school. By By the time you got to high school you were already grown and all that didn't mean anything in those days. Were you confirmed as sheriff? Yeah. Did you go through a confirmation? Yeah. I was confirmed from Temple. Oh, from Temple. Not from Sheriff Israel. That's interesting. That is interesting and I cannot tell you why. I know I was confirmed from Temple.
what year and why I don't know but I guess I was in high school at that time when you confirmed had you gone to Sheriff Israel at one point in time and then gone to temple or do you remember I don't remember going to temple I remember we had friends who went to temple and and because we didn't go well we did go to Sunday school at Sheriff Israel I remember that When did the Arbiter Ring come? The Arbiter Ring was before, before all that. I know I was confirmed from Temple. How, why, and I don't know why. Except that I was with a group of friends who were possibly went to Temple and I was confirmed with them.
But isn't it interesting that I didn't go to class, but I was confirmed. Did you go to any class at all? Do you remember if you went perhaps that last year? I don remember Absolutely remember I had to have been attended some classes if I was confirmed from there but I thought about that long time afterwards that I was confirmed from Temple And the only thing that I would say is that I was with a group of friends who went to Temple and I was with them. I remember Rabbi Lefkowitz very clearly. What do you remember about Rabbi Lefkowitz? He was like Gautz Alain. Can you say that in English?
If you'll translate. He was not God alone. He was a wonderful man and anytime you were in his presence you felt like you were with God so to speak. Other than that, I don't know, when the rabbi left to us and we was like God himself. Was the rabbi before gold, or did you have more experience with gold than you did the rabbi before gold? I need to be in the synagogue now. I can't remember that rabbi's name. Let's start with a W. All right. You were talking about the rabbis, and you remembered gold at Sheriff Israel. Right. Okay. I remember going to Shul. I remember the boys' choir on the bima, so to speak.
Big table. Who was before gold? What rabbis? Can you name any? I want to say with the W, I can't remember anybody's name, but Weisfeld was after Gold. After. Well alright, because Gold married us and we married in 38. Okay. And before Gold I can't place a rabbi. Okay I remember the canner Who was his name Who What was his name Perhaps Kaplan Kaplan I remember him And you spoke of the choir. Who was he? The kaizen at the time? Yeah. Who was the canter at the time? I remember a big square, big long table on the middle of the bema and the boys all stood around that table.
and that was the choir. No girls, all boys. Now what do you remember about Rabbi Gold? Not very much, really. Not very much at all. I remember he had a daughter and a wife, but We were not active in the synagogue like in those days because I say we were a poor family and we didn't mingle with those people. We had our own friends, the Aronofskys, the Goldburns, the Rudnitskys. Those were the friends. Solskis Clyman those days those names kind of ring a bell with you those were our friends and so the South Boulevard and the Park Row people who were the synagogue people we knew them and everything was fine they were friends but to be intimate were not with him.
So I don't remember that much about Gold. Nice looking man. And as I say he married us. Why or how or what? Because to my recollection we were not members per But a rabbi married us so that was it. Philip was bar mitzvah, well that came way later. Yeah that's Silverman, okay we can get into that. What were some of the stories, let's talk about some of the businesses in South Dallas when you were growing up, what's up with the stories? And you mentioned Black Bakery. Vlad Bakery and his sister had a counter, a delicatessen counter. Ruskin's five and ten dime store was Vlad and then Ruskin's that I worked there for a long time.
Then there was the drugstore. What was that drugstore? Was it Siegel? Siegel's on the corner of Irby and Forest. Or Colonial, I mean Colonial and Forest. Why am I calling that Irby? Irby came from the north side and then to Forest. Siegel's uh drug store. There was a big uh fruit. Levine had big fruits. Where was that located? around the corner on that was already Colonial because the drugstore was on the on the corner and on Colonial was a big fruit stand, Levine's, Raskin cleaners and Goldin's was right in I don't know if it was next to the fruit stand but it was right in there there was a hardware store a family owned hardware store was this big and I thought about it the other day and they eventually moved out North Dallas on Forest there was a drugstore across the street from the drug store.
It was another drug store. Then there was a theater. Then there was a market, a meat market. Who was that? Now were you talking about the Old Forest Theater? Yeah. And they were closer to the Good Asop and Short in that block in that area Primes where was Primes Primes was over nearer to Atlanta on the south side of the forest. Okay, so what... there was a meat market. Oh, that meat market was on Oakland, but it didn't start at Oakland. I thought it would have been down by the theater. Well there was the white theater that was farther down. That was past Oakland or...
Nearer to Oakland. Yeah, Oakland and farther. And then there was Blend. There was the New York Bakery and then there was Blend. Okay, okay. There was another, there was Kirschbaum I guess on that other corner. Was Kirschbaum the meat market? No, he was at a drugstore. Oh, okay. Across the street from Segal's. Is that right? I think there... No, I... On Forest. That I'm not sure of. I'd have to do some more. Because there was Segal's Drugstore and then across the street, which would be Colonial, there was another drugstore. Okay. I'm not... I'd like to share the name of that one. We'd have to look it up.
Then there was another Mark, but I'm kind of getting that mixed up with the... Abramson's was farther down. Oh, alright. And that, you may be thinking of it, it was on the other side of Oakland. Where was Fromm's? Fromm was between Atlanta and Harwood. Atlanta and Harwood. Well, Harwood was further up. Oakland. Where was Oakland compared to Harwood? Oakland was east of Harwood. Okay. Oh, there was a... I wonder if his name wasn't Raskin. He had a pharmacy, a little pharmacy. Oh, that was Friedman maybe. Friedman. Friedman. across this street. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Then you had some grocery stores along Forest Avenue. I don remember any grocery stores A and Safeway A is on the north side A On the north side Safeway on the south side Yeah But that came later That came after we were married I think Yeah that was in the early 40 Cause Nathan went to work for that A&P, I think.
No, no, Nathan didn't work. Nathan worked on Elm Street for the Morris sales company. Then somehow he got upset with them and he went... I don't know. Alright, let's talk about, you're talking about Nathan in Deep Elm, working in Deep Elm. Let's talk about that period of time now. That came, I went to work on Elm Street after high school. Okay. So how old was I? 18 or 19? When you graduate high school. You could have been between 17 and 18. 18, so let's put it at 18. Okay. I went to work for Morris Sales Company, which was owned by Rubin, Morris and Frank Rubin.
Maybe 1930, about what year? When did you graduate high school? Do you remember? Uh, if I was eighteen, and I was born 1916, so how was I? 30, 20... 30, in 1932. That was before I was married, yeah. So how old was I in 30? 32, oh 34 you would have been, uh, 18 you would have been in 1934. I was 18. That makes it about right. Graduate high school and went to work for Morris Salescombe. our sales company. Is that what we're after? Where was that on the phone? American Trading Company was also part of the Rubin family. It was not the people I worked for but it was family.
They were on Good and Wald was on the, was in that area. Now I can't when we saw a wall was like a police That was later That was later He supplied policemen So what did the Walds do before that? I believe they had suitcases and luggage. I'm not sure. Walds. I know they were not a schmackie store. So, we can assume then that it was that kind of a store. What were some of the other stores along Deep Elm? Oh, Walonsky was the auto place. What was the name of the, I've been trying to think, of the organization that was all all over the world practically, I don't know the world, but it was, that hired handicapped people.
Goodwill? Goodwill. Couldn't... They were on, they were on, see, um... They started in Dallas. Started in Dallas, and it was a national, wasn't it? I don't know if it was national at that point in time. Goodwill, I was trying so hard to think of that. Oh, Riceburg was there. What did Riceburg sell? Men's clothing and that was the general store. Riceburg. Pringler was along in there somewhere. Pringler came way later. I'm trying to think of some Walonsky. Harry Walonsky was the auto parts. Mm-hmm. S and W. Yeah. But there was another Walonsky family, oh God, who was, she was married to that Levine girl. Girl.
She was a Levine. I can just see those stories and the people saying that. Funk was down at the other end. He was not up on our end. He was also a general men's story. But I'm trying to think and we need your book. I know she was a Levine before she married this man who I can't bring up their name. Friedman, no that was the drug store people. Well there's furniture store with Freed. Used furniture. Freed? Oh yeah. They had a big furniture store. And there's another one I'm trying to think of was not second hand clothes but mark down things. from the big stores.
Maybe Rose Dress Shops? Yeah. Rose Dress Shops. That's already in the 40's. Oh, alright, I'm getting ahead of myself. But... What were some of the stores when you started working? Oh gosh. Where did Nathan work? Nathan went to work. Moss, what is the first name of Moss, M-O-S-S, they had a restaurant on the tracks. Nathan worked before I knew him. CPA was it? What is a CPA? No. After the war, Roosevelt. W... WPA, oh you're thinking about the uh, not the WPA. Yeah, Works Projects Administration. I think so. That's in 36. That was... Okay. ...out of the depression. and worked for, Tommy Moth was the son, but I don't remember the father's name.
The mother was Bertha. Yeah, those were our friends too. What did they do? They had a restaurant I mean I remember a restaurant on the tracks No wait just a minute I got to get mixed up I don know what Moss did exactly but I know Nathan worked for Moss had a restaurant on the tracks Could it be Saul's? No, no. Before he came to work for the American Trading Company. That, see, I mean, Mars Sales. He came to work for Mars Sales. And, oh, God, Strauss. There was some Strauss brothers. Okay. But Nathan worked for Mars on the tracks. And the tracks was an area on the street there.
For whatever happened, I don't know, but he came to work for the Mars Sales Company. And that was a food store, is that correct? Grocery. Grocery store? Yeah, grocery store. Okay. There was the American Trading Company had two stores, I think, and Mars Sales Company, was family. Marcel, Morris and Frank Rubin, Ben Ackerman and Rubin, Zelda and Shacklin? Zelda Rubin. Okay. Zelda Rubin. Johnny, Johnny Rubin, she was married to him, and the other Rubin was married to Sylvia Shave, Morton Rubin. Okay, those names are coming up, see. It was family, but they were the American Trading Company. And the other company was Mars Sales Company.
Do you remember some of the pawn shops in the area along Elm Street? There was a pawn shop, pawn shop. We bought that pawn shop too. 50 Feinberg who was she married to Was her name Schwartz They had the pawn shop Her father Jaime Schwartz they had a pawn shop Her father Jaime Schwartz they had a pawn and what was his name A brother Jaime Schwartz brother was in that pawn shop They had something to do with the Kennedy assassination. Just recently we talked about that to somebody. I can't remember Jaime's brother's name. Alright, another pawn shop was? Day and night pawn shop was on what was known as the tracks on Elm Street.
where the railroad tracks went through there and that was Jaime Schwartz his brother worked there um and we uh bought that pawn shop later on but there's another the name Wolonski keeps coming up and that's not right Shay Shay and Walonsky was S&W Auto Parts Okay That was across the street from our grocery store Harry and What was his brother's name? Harry and I don't know But There were The name's just not coming up I'm sorry But there was another couple of pawn shops Goldstein maybe? Yeah, Goldstein. Gun Shop was Goldstein. And there was a Myers grocery store. Abe Meyer, but I don't remember what his father's name was.
Fanny Myers, Fanny and Bess Myers, and Fanny, Fanny married somebody, Levine, but not a Dallas Levine as I remember. But I'm trying to think of what good, where good came in was the underpass, wasn't it? Think think wallpaper was there Siegel had a department store What was the Siegel was on the corner right on Good and Irving. Can't remember what their first name was. And Irving? No, Elm. Oh no, Elm. And Good. Good was where, you know, the underpass finally was. What did Benno's do? Buttons. And there was no Benno's up in our area. That I'm not sure of. No. There was or not. There was Bar Shop.
That's a gun place. Didn't he also have shoes that he reworked? Or was that another bar shop? Bar shop. Didn't they have shoes? Shoes. Simon Bar Shop. Yeah. But there was a Benny's, I think. Benny's was my sister-in-law. And what did they have? Shoes. Shoes, okay. Reworked shoes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Benny's. And Simon Bar Shop was a department store like, all on one floor, so, you know. Okay. And Silvergold. It was Silvergold. Yeah, Silvergold. What did they do? And who was their family? Silvergold. That's Ruthie and Francis. Coleman? Oh, yeah. Oh, their mother, Silvergold, yeah. Is it Rose? Rose Silvergold? Is that her one? I don't know.
I don't remember. Her husband was killed in an automobile accident. The three little girls. Francis and, oh God, Levy. Ruthie. Ruthie Levy and Francis. Ethel. That's right. They all married very well, except Ruthie Levy, I think. She did all right, but they had problems. Now was Eisenstein also on... Eisenstein we called them. What did they do? See I'm interviewing you now. I couldn't bring up those names at all. And like I say, this faint walk thing. And across the street from them was Siegel. Oh, and their mother was, their mother, a movie star. There was a movie star that, what was that Jewish boy's name that was, went to Hollywood, became an actor.
There was a Topoloski and there was Aaron Spelling who became a producer. But there's another one. I don't know why I want to call him Beno. Oh, he made all the Jewish movies. He's ill. He had a heart condition. Sadie, not Sadie Siegel, that was a different Siegel. Oh, you talking about Jerry? Jerry Siegel? Was he a movie star? No, he wrote. His son is a movie star. Or maybe that's, maybe that too I'm trying to think of. His son is a movie star. Made all the Jewish movies. I mean, any connotation. Go ahead. You were talking about Siegel. Jerry and what was her name?
Frida. Frida. Frida Benson was her name. Frida Benson. Okay. And so he took the Benson name instead of the Siegel name. That's Bobby, the son. Yeah. That's uh, that's uh, and that was that corner. The corner was Fink Paint and Wallpaper, Siegel's Store and Myers. That was Jerry's parents. Joe Myers. Jerry's parents was Siegel. Then across that street, Good, was Joe Myers. And over here was some kind of an office building, as I remember. I don't know about that corner. That was where the good and latter and the underpass came And where I worked was Morris Sales Company past Good Street Strauss. There was a couple of brothers named Strauss.
Okay. What they did, I think it was like secondhand stuff. Okay. Now, Mr. Saltus, Bill Saltus. Okay. Can you tell me about him? He had a store also on Elm. The name, but I... And Claren Winterman at one time. Claren Winterman was like jewelry. And then Rocky Goldstein, Isaac Aloshalom. Art, but what Goldstein was up by us? Dave. Dave Goldstein. That was the gunshot. Exactly. See, you're bringing up better names than I am. But yeah, Clauren Winterman and Taylor Aronofsky. Aronofsky he was partners with somebody Fife maybe? Fife and Aronofsky that was the Taylor's yeah that was close to Claren Winterman see those I had forgotten all that and I used to walk up that Elm Street from Irby Street Irby and Elm I walked to Good and Elm.
That was all that area and I knew all those people. There was Yiddish theater. Can you tell us about that? In the 30's. I don't know that there was a Dallas Yiddish. Was there? Because I have programs of I was in a character in those Jewish plays. I played the mama of the, in the Dybbuk. I played the mama of that girl who got the Dybbuk. See, did you pick off maybe? Pick off? Pick off I remember that name And Salski Izzy Salski We used to go to San Antonio We went to the neighbor to cities around Dallas I cannot remember anything about the Yiddish theater except that I knew there was one and I was a character that always called on me because I knew Yiddish to play those parts He had forgotten all about that.
Talk about that. Okay. With the Yiddish theater and Mr... What's his first name? Ed Tankus. Ed Tankus. Yes. There was two Tankuses, wasn't there? Or brothers. One of them became a director at Temple. worked at Temple not long ago. Ed later taught bar mitzvah at Temple. Okay. You're absolutely correct. Yeah. Yes. And, but what, Ed Tankus, what was the other? No, I remember Ed Tankus. Yes. I remember that name. He did have a brother. Yeah, but... Very active. What was the other? I think the brother was the director. I had to get into my cedar chest and find those programs. I had them out not too long ago.
Let's get into my daddy's scrapbook where all of the organizations and um and concert what are the people no i didn't take it off a minute i'm trying to famous people okay go ahead and my dad's scrapbook were his clients and of all the famous people Carl Hoblitzell Fred Florence Shulam Tonin and people in that category were all mentioned in his book Jan Pierce Jan Pierce Yeah Melvin Douglas was one of his clients. Melvin Douglas, the movie star. And he would close his business to go to, when these people came to nearby towns, he'd close his business and go to those concerts. now where we can you talk a little bit about your organizations when you were growing up Jewish organizations you were a member of the Council of Jewish Juniors was an organization a past president of Hadassah and it was another big organization we don't want to mention Jonathan Club are those people that's what you want?
well tell me the Jonathan Club was that not a men's argument But wasn't that a men's organization? Men's organization, yeah. Was Nathan perhaps a member of the Jonathan Club? Yeah, Jonathan Club. And there was another... FHH, maybe? FHH, yeah. That was one of the organizations that we belonged. Not too much of that because we were busy working, actually. We didn't have that kind of social life. And Nathan was not a socialized person until way after we married him. I think that was all the organizations at that time. Do you want to talk a little bit about his WPA experience in working on this project? I absolutely don't know anything about that.
I do remember he worked for that. He was part of that program. But I didn't know him at the time. All I knew is that he was part of that group. What he did and how he lived, I didn't know. The only thing I remember is when he came to work for from that group of people. At that time I didn't know Nathan Rosen. How did you meet him? He came to work at the Morris Sales Company. Actually the first time I saw him was at a FHH, not a FHH, a Council of Jewish Juniors program where you invited people you know he came through the living room and he was very handsome young man and he made an impression on me but he went back to the kitchen where the men shot dice they did not stay out and dance and took part of the program he came from a very poor family that he had to help support his mother and father they were older already and ill so he had to work and help support his family and I met him when he came to work at the Mars sales company.
Was he from Dallas? Did he live in Dallas at that time? He came to Dallas with his let see they were in Michigan came from Michigan and they they were on their way to Hot Springs because Mr Rosen had asthma and they were on their way to Hot Springs and they got lost and that's how they ended up in Dallas. He had five sisters and they all worked to support Mr. and Mrs. Rosen. He wasn't married when he came here and I had two sister-in-laws who weren't married when they came here. And of course we were all very became very close friends. But I never dreamed that Nathan Rosen and I would ever be married because he was confined to his family.
He had to do that. We never went steady. We just got married. How long did you know him before you married? A long time, it seemed like. Because we worked together and I saw him every day. But as I say we did not have the social life that you would think and so we never went steady We worked together and we got married period That's how it worked. The FHH, yeah, they had dances and we always went to a dance. He always took me. We were comfortable with each other. I was not an outgoing person, neither was he. So we were comfortable with each other.
Until one day he said, I want to marry you. He didn't even ask me. But that was fun in those days. I mean, you remember those kind of things. What year did you get married in? 1935. 1938. We were married 50 years when he died and he died in 88 and that how I know we were married in 1938 We had a wonderful life together The word no was not in his vocabulary when it came to me and the children Nothing for himself always for us I had 50 years of a wonderful life with him What did he do in later years after he When he retired, really not too much.
He, my daughter noticed that he was becoming lethargic, so she bought a computer and he learned to work the computer which kept his mind occupied and we were we just lived together and enjoyed each other's company oh we worked after we married we had the grocery store thing on Elm Street there across the street from Harry Walonsky's auto parts and it was Harry Walonsky and then there was a Sam in the next block was a Sam Walonsky I think. Thank you.