Sherman Kaplan
Sherman Kaplan was born in St. Joseph, Missouri, and came to Dallas as a two-year-old around 1914, after his father, drawn by an uncle's account of opportunity, established a waste paper business on Marilla Street downtown. The family first rented a frame house on Gano Street, later bought a home on Park Avenue near Eakin, and in 1927 moved to South Dallas on South Boulevard, a block from the Hebrew school. His parents came from Russia, from the same town as Weizmann, and his grandfather on his father's side was said to have been one of Weizmann's teachers. His father was a learned yeshiva student who continued his education at night after arriving in America. In the family tradition of the time, aunts, uncles, and cousins often lived in the household while attending school.
The Kaplans were part of Congregation Shearith Israel, which moved over the years from Jackson Street to Park and Eakin and eventually to a new building whose first service was held in 1956. Raised in a modern Orthodox home, Sherman walked to shul on Shabbos and Yom Tov, understood the Yiddish sermons his father made him sit through, and received a private Jewish education because his father felt the congregational school was not good enough. He later taught in the Dallas Hebrew School in its old white frame building. Over the years his personal observance changed somewhat, though he continued to keep a kosher home and to mark the holidays. The congregation moved from Orthodox toward Conservative under Rabbi Silverman.
Kaplan devoted much of his life to communal work, concentrating on the synagogue and the Jewish Federation, and also serving on the boards of the Center, the home, and Family Service. After returning from Army service in World War II, he saw the community grow more united, with Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox Jews finally working together in Federation campaigns. He recalled becoming, he believed around 1956, the first Orthodox Jew to serve as president of the Federation, and he helped push for greater support of Israel and for building a new Jewish Community Center, agreeing to name it for Julius Schepps to win approval. He remembered the old YMHA of his youth, the split among the community's religious groups, the Ku Klux Klan era, and instituting term limits at the synagogue. He was recognized by the National Conference of Christians and Jews and served the broader community, including as chairman of the Community Chest Trust Fund.
Full Transcript
Hi, I'm Dr. Kaplan. It is December the 3rd, 1984, and we're talking about the Hebrew School of Dallas and Jewish education in Dallas generally. Now then, let's go back. Do you remember the circumstances that brought Jacob Levine to Dallas? No, I don't. Do you know if there was any support for the Hebrew School of Dallas when he came, from Federation? As far as I know there was, but there was part of Sheriff Israel. In other words, Sheriff Israel supported the whole thing at that time. But yet they had students from all over the city. It always did. Sheriff Israel always did. Was there a general plea aside from Sheriff Israel, was there a general campaign or a general appeal for support from the city in itself?
Well, there was always an appeal to the city for funds for Hebrew education. So I would have to say yes, but as a matter of, it was a completely separate budget, but charitable people maintained it. Yeah, yeah, they were big supporters then as far as that's concerned. I understand Rabbi Gold, alo shalom, was instrumental in bringing Levine to Dallas, alo shalom. do you know anything about the background well that's that's very possible because we were always looking for good teachers and he found him i guess and brought his brother wolf gold or shalom recommended and he was in new jersey at the time and they brought him to dallas and his family that's very close and then uh you know he came over with the u-b school uh you talked about some of the uh do you remember the early years as far as the program was concerned and as far as the education you mean the early years that he was here yes that now i just wanted to do a little well we'll go back the early years that he was here yeah well i don't remember exactly what his program was but i do know that he did a tremendous job of developing the school And as I stated before, we liked his abilities to teach and motivate, but just liked his politics.
When did the politics become an issue Always was Even when he first came No not until after he got here because we didn know too much about his politics And what happened after he came? Well, it just became an irritant. It didn't keep, you know, nobody tried to get rid of him on Calhoun. but it did cause a problem his failure to teach more religion he taught Hebrew as a language yes yes well and some people liked it my father for one liked it because he thought it should be taught as a language and that as far as the religious end of it should be taught in the home and in the synagogue what were some of the subjects or some of the things that the people who wanted Hebrew taught in coordination with religion what was their expectation what they well they were they expected the kids to come to Shulmore which they didn't because he had his own service
there at on Park Row and they didn't come to the synagogue and he never really taught religion as religion he taught it as a as a subject as you would teach in any school not in a religious school in other words the school was not a religious school it was a Hebrew school absolutely absolutely and that's that became the difference between some parts of the community in other parts of the community well all the holidays were taught yeah all of the traditions about the holidays were taught at the school but they weren't taught from the point of religion okay see they were taught as historical
subjects because every jewish holiday has a historical background Well, we did study some of this. Apparently that was the feeling of the community. Not the community as a whole. Don't forget there were people who backed him a hundred percent. Oh well ninety percent You couldn back Levine a hundred percent because it was always something he would do that you know that it was his idea and if he had an idea he stuck with it Yes He was a man of principle Yes. You might not like his principle, but he was a man of principle, and he would argue his point of view. now he would teach his way and he may add some of the things you wanted added but he still taught Hebrew as a language it was a Hebrew school not a religious school which I didn't object to because I always felt as my father did.
If you learn the language, you'll learn the religion later. Or you'll learn that in your home. Of course, the problem was there were too many people whose homes didn't have anything in them, as we have the same problem. What were some of the other issues? Was that the only issue as far as religion? I think that was the basic one. I don't think people minded so much that he was a labor Zionist, except for the fact that being a labor Zionist made him almost irreligious sometimes. Well, uh... And the two together is the thing that would cause... What would they have had him do as far as religion was concerned?
Was it only a matter of directing the children to show... I mean, you know, the kids, a lot of the students sat with him in the show, and the kids did their own service. They davened, and the boys, the older boys, would teach the haftoras. Yeah. And, of course, they were quite capable. They learned everything that they would have been learning in a religious-oriented school. So, what was their expectation as far as it was? How can you tell what people's expectations are? It's hard to determine it. And they would pick on one thing if they disliked it for something. And that was the basic problem.
And it wasn I think until they wanted to have a United Hebrew School here which was at the gambling thing Yeah what happened then Well that was when you know financing was a problem Yes To keep them all the school this school alive and the other school alive there just wasn enough money So people tried to say, well, why don't we just have one Dallas school, which would be the United Hebrew School. That's what it was called, the United Hebrew School. Yes. the old Sheriff's School became the Dallas Hebrew School so they thought they could get help from all the whole community but it never came that way.
It was still Sheriff's People that put up all the money. And they moved the school from the synagogue to South Dallas. First it was in that big white house on the corner of the end and it moved into the Barron House. Right. And then they moved to the Herzheco building once it was United Human Schools. Did they know, did the leadership know that Gamern would come up with this type of recommendation? No. But they figured that's what it would be because of the fact that if we were going to get enough financing, you had to have a city school. And at that time, to have a city school, the Temple Emanuel people were supposed to be on the board.
The rabbi was supposed to participate. But nobody really expected a heck of a lot out of that, because if it was going to be a religious school, it was impossible to put everything in one. You couldn't put Reform, Orthodox, and Conservative. You might be able to get Conservative and Orthodox together, but you can't get Reform in that. And it proved out to be that way. and then it ended up when we moved over here we got our own still did they have any idea that was going to happen no not you mean when they were after the united hebrew school um period when they the shul itself moved did they have any idea that that was going to happen or did they expect the hebrew school to go on well they had hoped that it would but when when you couldn't get any, you know, activity from anybody, there was no sense in having another school.
And the minute we moved to close the school down, became Sheriff Edsel School, the, uh, The population of the school grew immensely. We went from 100 to 150 kids to 500 to 600 kids. Alright, but why do you think that was? Because you've got it in the synagogue building, you've got your rabbi behind it, and we changed from a four-day-a-week school to a three-day-a-week school, two days during the week and on Sunday morning, and we combined the Hebrew school and Sunday school together. We put the same number of hours in. You had the same number of hours, but you didn't have, you know, it gave them time, kids time to do other things.
And that seems to be the popular method that's worked all over the country. Was there background on that when they brought in Emmanuel Gameron? Did they look at other communities to see what types of Hebrew schools there were, and what was the effect of it? No, it was left completely to him to make a report. And he was supposed to be the expert who knew what was going on in other communities. And then he saw what went on in ours and could see what the difference was. Now, how were they able to arrange for the Federation to bring him in? That was part of the whole thing, because funds were being requested from the Federation.
And they said, we can't get here or here. Let's get a study and see if we can get a United School with a Board of Education. What is that? They have that in a lot of communities. We don't have it here. But a Bureau of Education. We had that for a while, and it stunk. It was a waste of money. And I think in most places, the Bureau is a sad thing. That money was spent on teachers and on the schools themselves would be better off. And when they made, now when they did this and they decided to have United Hebrew School, I believe that all of Rabbonim were on that board and they were the ones that were really directing the program.
They were supposed to be, yeah. And was this intended? That would be intent because the problem was before we had a board that was supposedly a community board but Levine ran the school And of course when they got to United Hebrew School they didn't want Levine. That's when he left. Well, I believe they offered him the position, but he knew that he would not have the academic freedom he had before, and so therefore he chose to resign. Well, it's, let's put it, that's the way it happened. You mean that they wanted him out, and so that would be the way to do it. What about the Jewish education prior to his coming, when you were growing there?
Let's go back in time. Were you born in Dallas? I was two years old when I came. Where did you come? St. Joe, Missouri. Okay. been in Dallas 70 years. Okay. How is it that your parents came to Texas or to Dallas? Looking for a place to make a living. Were there relatives here? No, my dad was the first to come. Do you have any idea why he chose to Texas? I had an uncle that used to travel through the country and he saw Dallas as a place of opportunity for our line of business and told my dad and my dad moved in. And what did he do when he moved there?
Went in the Waypaper building. Been in there all my life. Where was it located? When we first came here? On Marilla Street. What, uh, Marilla? Like downtown? That's right. What year was that? 1914. And... Now you're not all over there. Where did y'all live, do you know? What was your... What was your address? On Gonneau Street. Where? On Gonneau? Okay. Right off of Akers in Southbound. Okay. And Gonneau between Irving and Akers or right out of Akers? No, right on Akers. What years? From when to when? Okay, I can't remember that. And, well? Your next move was to Howard Park? No, no. Our next move was from Cando Street to Park Avenue.
Park Avenue and Hitler. And we left there in 1927 and moved on South Boulevard That before me Longer for you When did you move from Park let say you left Park Avenue moved to South Boulevard in 1927 Do you know when you moved to Gonneau Street, to Park Avenue? What year? I think we moved there about 1920, probably. But see I was in the fourth grade in school. Fourth grade in school I must have been about ten years old. So that ought to be what 1912, about 1921, 1922. Uh-huh. And so your first home then was on Gino? Gino. You said, so you lived there for the first 10, 12 years, then you moved to Park Avenue and then to South Boulevard.
Where, about where on South Boulevard? 2406. That was not far from the Hebrew school. That's right. That's right. The Hebrew school was a block away. How was it that Hebrew school was in that house? Do you know? That white frame house on the corner. I really don't know. All I know is that we needed to move the school closer to where everybody lived, and we had outgrown the rooms on Park Avenue there, Park and Eakin. and the school became the Dallas Hebrew School at that time and was no longer Sheriff Edsel. Did they rename it because they changed locations? Yeah, yeah. I think that was part of it.
Was it a Hebrew school when it was at Shul? It was a religious school at Shul. Only religious school? On Sunday only? Oh, no, no. It was a four-day-a-week school, but religion, it was taught as a religious subject and not as a language in other words the change came when Levine came okay see in the days that over the old building you had Resnick and not nothing you had weren't the Wernie boys Rabbi Wernie was our rabbi and the weren't any boys taught there. Old man Flamps used to teach there. Prior to that, they had a school It was over on I think it broader but up closer to downtown Okay I found a fellow by the name of Resnick used to teach there.
He used to teach in Fort Worth and used to come over to teach me and the Fellmans who used to take private lessons from. Then he ended up teaching in our school there. Okay. Now he wasn't the Resnick that was affiliated with Federation? Oh, no, no. Different residence? Completely. Okay. Completely different. Okay. Okay. About what year was that? Oh, God, that's got to be in the early 20s. Okay. And then the Wernick? Wernick came after that. He was in the 30s. No, he can't be in the 30s. No, I was in the 20s, too, then. Rabbi Wernick. Not Wernick. Wernick. W-E-R-N-E. He has John Wernie?
Not Wernie. No, it's Wernie. Yes. They were the father and two sons. One of the sons was a doctor, one of them became a lawyer. The doctor is now dead. The lawyer is still in the east, still practicing law. He comes here quite a while. He used to come here often, but he hadn't seen him in the long time. all right now so the hebrew school was at or the religious school system was at the synagogue for long for the early years now then then did they move when people moved farther to south dallas that's what happened yeah all right now did the rest before prior to that time frame were the bulk of the jewish or the bulk of the um sheriff israel close to like park and eakin and gano and corinth and broader and all of the yeah they were all in that area until we all began to move further south all right as we as we made more money right we moved to south further south dallas because South Boulevard Park Road and Forest Avenue now prior to that move where the people in little Mexico well that was the sheriff Israel didn't know those people belong to the fair Israel and to a good as usher and to the other shoe that became part of sure because the last we moved Out here.
Uh. Antre Schwart. Antre Schwart. That was the old North Dallas. That was called North Dallas. And then they moved to South Dallas. Alright, the old North Dallas shul that was at the corner coming into town, just before Ackerd, like Ackerd and Field, whatever it is, was it had a little mug and dubbing on top of it. Wasn't that the affair of this one? It may have been, I don't remember, because I never went down in that part of town when I was growing up. We were always south. Okay, but those were primarily... Now, I remember Jackson Street. I went to school, went to Shul on Jackson Street, and then from Jackson Street we moved to Park Avenue, and then from Park Avenue we moved over here.
Okay. Was the population, was there any shift in population at that point in time from Jackson Street to Park Avenue? Yeah. At that time more Jews were moving south all the time. Those Jews in North Dallas were moving to South Dallas. Alright. Jews from North Dallas were not just South Dallas. That's why those shuls over there were closing down and moving north. They were moving south. But if the Jewish population of Sheriff Israel were like on Gano and Park and those streets in there. That's why they moved the shul from Jackson to Park and Eton. When they built the shul on Jackson, do you know where that population center was?
No, I don't because I was so young I wouldn't know. You don't remember hearing stories about it or anything? No, I don't. Okay. That's okay. That shul was there before my father came to town. Because my father was active in building the park in Eakinshul. Okay. What was the Jewish education like that you received? Well, mine was all private. I never went to Eakinshul. And even though Sheriff Israel had a school at Sheriff Israel? My father never thought it was good enough. When you taught? Well, I taught in the Dallas Hebrew School when it was in the old white building. You did teach in the Hebrew School at Dallas So you taught when Levine was on the Hebrew School No Levine wasn there when I taught I don remember who was there There was a fellow by the name of Cutkin and I took I taught got paid and gave my money to Cutkin to teach me Was Mr.
Holden there? Yeah, Holden, yeah, he was there. Okay, so that white building was already in you several years before Levine? Bean came, yeah. Okay, about what year did they start using that white flag? I don't know. You don't know? I don't know. How did the, was it a gradual change? No, no. What do you mean? Curriculum. No, they let him do his thing when he first came. Because I think, you know, there was always that division here as to whether it should be, once it became a Dallas Hebrew school, whether it should be a religious school or whether it should be a Hebrew school. Okay.
And my father always was in the group to set it all to be a Hebrew school, although he was a religious man. so my feelings probably were that became that way because I followed his thinking which was that if people knew their Hebrew and knew their history they would be religious now Now, what was the extent of your Jewish observance when you were growing up? Orthodox. Orthodox. Orthodox. We walked to shul on Shabbos. We walked to shul on Yontif. Was shul an Orthodox shul at that time? It was a modern Orthodox, yes. But modern Orthodox in the shul, always men and women sat together. Oh, okay.
Thank you. as far as I know. Prior to my memory, well, I don't know, but for the years that we went, even on Jackson, we sat together. Okay. When did it change its charter? Do you know? When Silverman came. We became a conservative center. What about the spelling It used to be called it used to be spelled S I don know how we spell it In the old books it will have Sha as opposed to Sha The change came because people didn know how to spell it that all Exactly. Has your observance changed over the years? Oh, yeah. How? Well, I eat everything, I don't eat everything, but I eat meat outside of the home, even though I keep a kosher home.
But you told me you didn't have one. Oh, I don't eat one, no. And I didn't until I went off to school. Even the first year at school I found a kosher place to eat. Where was this when you went to school? University of Texas, my third year. I went to SMU the first two years. They had a kosher restaurant in Austin? They had a home, there was one home there that fed students and you could eat there, and I stayed there. But then that only lasted one semester, and then boom, it went. And after it went, those of us that were trying to keep it went.
And once you break, you follow, you let her roll. Explains the fence laws, doesn't it? What about observing the various holidays? Have you changed in your observance? No. No, I continue. What about like, shoppers candles? Oh, we still, sure, we still have them. Even though it was just the two of us here, we... Our family is gathered. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't you have that on that family? Yes. What about synagogue affiliation? Have you only affiliated with Sheriff Israel? Do you have other affiliations other than Sheriff Israel? No, my affiliation is always Sheriff Israel. One year I joined a good associate because they were trying to railroad the rabbi and I was a little hot-headed in those days.
I joined to help protect the rabbi at that time. Do you remember the year? I don't remember any. One year then. Um, what about you Jewish organizations? Um how have your affiliations gone generally And um are they the same Where are some of your affiliations gone generally and are they the same What are some of the affiliations you had over the years Well, most of my activities have been with the synagogue and with the federation. And I've been on the board of the center, I've been on the board of the hall, on the board of the family service, I've been on all the boards. But my real activity has been with the Federation and with the synagogue.
I've never been much of a believer in the AJC and the B'nai B'rith, because I never believed in the defense agency. What are some of the changes you've seen in the synagogue from the time, like in the 20s, that you remember, or even the teens before they moved to... Well, we were much more orthodox than we are today. I can remember when Rabbi Gold used to give one of his sermons in Jewish. But you don't have enough people that understand Jewish today, and I don't know how well our rabbis today can speak Jewish either. What about the kids? Were they able to understand the sermons, or did they not stay in Jewish?
Kids then are no different than kids today. I stayed in Jewish because my father made me stay in Jewish. Were you able to understand the Yiddish? Yeah. Was the Yiddish spoken at home? Oh, sure. But Yiddish was very self-spoken in the synagogue. Most of it was, all of it was in there. What about some of the changes you've seen as far as the length of the service and the prayers within the service? It's practically the same. The only difference is maybe a little bit more English now to try to satisfy the younger people. And, of course, the services, the rush is showing, used to be tremendously long.
They would get through 2, 3 o'clock in the afternoon, which there was no necessity for it. They'd drag them out. What about the choir? Choir at those days was all the boys' choir. How were they chosen to be? All they had to do say they wanted to join. The cattle would go out and try and find enough guys that would sing. Was the choir paid in those days? No. When did they start paying the choir? They started paying the choir when they moved over here and began putting both men and women in the choir. Was that also when they came over here in the North Fowl series?
That's right. And because they tried to get a more professional choir, and that was the reason they paid them. What year was that? 1956 was our first service. What about Federation? Oh, wait a minute. Let's go back. What are some of the other changes you've seen in the show? Well, one of the things was that we don't have anybody that holds office forever. We stopped that. We used to have gaboim that was gaboim for 20 or 30 years, or somebody who was president wanted to stay on. We stopped all that. Two terms now is all you can. in the old days it was hard to get anybody to take the job you know once they got out after we began to break off so it's a step up situation the man worked for two for six years before becoming president so he knows what he's getting into and how were they able to change that if it was hard to get someone to take that position well it we we had some problems at the time and and they asked me to take the job, and I said I'd take it under certain circumstances.
And then that was one of the circumstances that we set up this group of people who were going to take it, and once we did, it followed along. Everybody along knew that he'd be there two years, and that someone would be there to follow behind him, and he would have people to work with him. What about the Federation You worked and been involved in the Federation over the years How are what are some of the changes you seen here Well there been a lot of changes in the Federation At one time it was completely controlled by the German Jews from the Temple of Mania When did that start changing?
When I became president. I was the first. Well, we began to change it in between. But I was the first Orthodox Jew that was president of the Federation. What year? Well, let's see. Must have been 56. So I think it was 56. I have records put away. I think it was 1956. But then, you know, the conservative Jews were the ones that began to give the money. And when they began to give the money, they began to demand some of the powers of control. And we had some good workers. You had the Shannens, the Fellmans, myself, and a few others who weren't afraid to speak their piece.
And we made a lot of changes in the program. How many of them? And in the old days, you used to have two campaigns. You had the United Jewish Appeal, and you had the Joint Distribution Committee. before they got together. And then we used to, the Federation used to give the money, divide it up as they saw fit, and that's when we all began to holler, you know. Those of us who were Zionists and miserable minded began to demand a bigger share of the money. About what year? Was that in the 50s? Well that started before the 50s I think. But in the 50s is when we really began to begin to demand our share of the power.
And we had people who were willing to fight for what they wanted. What about the relationship of the Federation and the Jewish Community Center? Oh, that was a good thing. There were very many people who didn't want to communicate those were the reformed you because they didn want to get a wise the Jew we have we had the old YMHA in South Dallas and the Federation officers were there at one time Then when we wanted to build this one out here, that's when we had a hell of a fight for that. And I think we got it on a 13 to 12 vote. and the only reason we did that we compromised and made the name a Julia Shep's Community Center I was active in doing that at the time and the reason we did it that we did want to build we needed a building and to get it you had to give something once we got it then we've gone a long way since let's go back to the YMHA days in 1920, or 21, 22, the YMHA was revitalized.
YMHA was as early as 1879, I wrote this show. Yeah, but those of us who grew up in South Dallas used it quite a bit, the Jewish boys. I used to play that all the time, basketball, baseball. We had our leagues in our own group. What years? High school. Well, I was in high school, so I graduated in 28, so it was in the 20s. All right, what happened afterwards? Now, the YMHA was independent. Yes. And then, in the early 20s, the federation? That became, well, then the federation began to finance it. Okay. When they formed a federation, you don't forget for many years we didn't have a federation.
Okay. What was there before? Well, the YMHA were there before the federation. All right. But was there an agency, a structured agency, because the federation claims their formation in 1913? Well, there was a... Yeah, they were... They were in the other building? But they were, no, they had an office building or in an office someplace. A fellow by the name of Levy ran it for them. And then this fellow resident came here when they moved over, when they moved into the old YMHA building and then Jack came Jack was at the old YMHA All right He came in the 40s I believe he came in 1945 Well, he came during the war, I guess, because Resnick left, I think, then.
Of course, I wasn't here when Jack came. I was away. I was in the Army. Okay. From the period of the 20s through the late 30s, what type of programming was at the YMHA building? Or at the center? They didn't have a center there. There was a YMHA and there was athletic. All right. And they used, well, many other Jewish organizations, young Jewish organizations like the Young Judeans and others, used the building there for meeting place. They were the meeting place. And they used to hold dances upstairs once a month. the various jewish organizations would throw a dance but otherwise it was all athletics we played baseball there we played basketball at pool tables all that sort was there a professional coordinating well you may call them a professional yes who there was a professional who ran the ymha because the programs were all set up was it strictly athletics then was it mostly cultural no frankly i don't remember any cultural day any cultural stuff was either at the synagogue or temple or the young young judeans or something like that okay then when did they start developing cultural activity or how i should say how and when did they start developing cultural activities in a broader base for the jewish community center activities or ymha well that's that's when they dropped the ymha deal and began called the jewish community center that's when that began to happen that's when the federation took over the you know the looking over it see see what was going on.
It was one of the arms of the Federation, just like the Family Service then. What was the factor that made them be more concerned about the program in the Jewish community? I guess the lack of program in any place else in the community. So they I thought they would try a pair. Because there was, you know, and the other idea was, was trying to get all the Jewish kids together. Because this community was split. If you were a reformed Jew, you didn't have anything to do with a conservative Jew. And the conservative Jews didn't have a hell of a lot to do with the other Jews.
And there was actual, they wouldn't go out with each other. What time period? I know while I was growing up it was that way. Between 20s? I'd say in the 20s, even in the teens. Were there any other factors, and what time period did they start reading and watching about? would attach a date to a broader program in athletics, what date would you do? That would be right after the war, everybody became more community-minded than I would say. And that's when the Federation really began to grow. I remember when I first came back from the Army, the first Federation campaign that we had that were conservative Jews in the Orthodox Jews and the Reform Jews were all pulling for the same darn thing.
Would you say that was almost a landmark in the group working together? Yeah, that would be. All of the groups working together? I think the war brought everybody together. And what they saw that happened in Germany Again, make people think maybe we better stick together. I think that I wasn't here during the war because I was gone, but I think, you know, the fact that they had so many programs going down at the old YMHA building to take care of the soldiers that were visiting here at the time helped everybody see that they could work together As the Federation campaigns went on from that point in time did you see more cooperation between the community you know like the Reform and conservative and orthodox Oh yeah Has there been a steady increase Yeah Was there any backlash from the more conservative orthodox group going into leadership positions in the federal Well, the real orthodox group never put any money up, so they didn't have a right to say anything.
And they never complained too much because they never participated. What about the reform? Well, the reform always participated, but never in the way that the conservatives used to. Was there change in the areas of support? More positive Zionism also coming from the reform as well? No, no, I wouldn't say that, but the reform began to back away from fighting those of us who wanted more for Israel than they did before. Because that's where the money was coming from. About what year? Well, I would only say after the war, and that's because that's when I became real active in the Federation after I got back from the service.
Let's talk about your housing over the years and the type of housing and structure of the family. What type of housing did you have when you first came to Dallas, in your very early years? Was it a frame house, was it a brick house, was it a small house, what, you know? Well it was a frame house because that was the main thing that everybody had But it was a good-sized house that we rented. We didn't own it. We rented it. Then we lived on Gonneau Street. But we bought our first home when we lived on Park Avenue in Eakin. And it was a large house, but it was funny.
And then the house on South Boulevard was brick and locked. We had three children, and my mother and dad said it was silent. Besides aunts and uncles who always lived with us. In those days, you know... The families. Yeah. Tell us about the aunts and uncles that lived with us. Well, the Almond boys, Meyer and Harry, both lived with us to go to school at SMU. They went to SMU to get their undergraduate work and then they went to Topeka Kansas to live with my aunts there to get their law degrees And Harry worked while Meyer went to school and Meyer worked while Harry went to school In those days, everybody helped everybody.
About what year? What was the time? Well, that was in the teens when they lived with us. And then I had an uncle that lived with us for years at Morris Castle. He lived with us when we were on Park Avenue. How long did he live with us? He lived with us until he got married. Everybody lived in that house, from what I understand. Well, no, South Boulevard, Dorothy and her kids lived with us. But those were the days when families, you know, shared everything. It's not like the day the kids run out and get in the apartment. Yeah. Interesting. Did your grandparents ever come to the States and did they ever live with you?
No. Did you know your grandparents? Oh, sure. Oh, yeah, I knew all my grandparents. We used to go visit them regularly. My mother's parents came from St. Joe, Missouri, and we went back there every summer to see them, and then we'd go on to Chicago where my father's parents came. That was our vacations in those days. We'd go visit our grandparents every year. All right. Did your grandparents come from Europe? So did my parents. Okay. What year did they come here? My grandfather came in 1890, my mother's father. And the rest of the family came during the Spanish-American War. And where were they? What was their country was?
They came from Russia. In fact, they came from the town that Weichman was born. My grandfather, my father's side, was one of Weichman's teachers. How has, now did your father have a change of occupation when he came to the United States? What did you do in Europe? He was a teacher, I guess. I don't really know. No, he was just a student. My father was a very well man He was a yeshiva boker When he came to the United States he went on to school He didn get an degree but he went to college at night to learn, you know, for education. And then he came down here and went to business, right after he and my mother know.
How have you seen the waste paper business change? What was it like when he started? I mean, during the war, I wouldn't remember what it was like. But I know it was very small, you know, and it grew tremendously in this area. And it recycles the paper, Jewish stuff. Are there some of the other things that you can think of how the community has changed over the years? Well, you don't have a Jewish area anymore. It's spread out all over. Where South Dallas it was all Jewish. And the high school that we went to must have been, Well, most of the Jewish kids went to Forest Avenue and that school.
There are high-Jews that are scattered between the West Avenue. Yeah, but they're scattered. Yeah, they're scattered, but they're in the area. But on South Boulevard and Forest Avenue and Park Row, everybody was Jewish. There wasn't a non-Jew in the area. That's right. That's what they used to call it. Some of the other ways, how has it changed? Well, I think it's changed for the better because we've got better educational systems now. We've got better schools. You've got Akiba, and you've got Solomon Shackler School, where you've got the day schools. It has to be better because they've given more time. When you stop and realize in Jewish education, you used to get an hour, four hours a week.
And you didn't go 52 weeks. You only went about 40, so you're talking about, what's that, 40 times 4 is, say, even 500 hours a year. You don't even get out of first grade. Thank you. It's remarkable that many of our people can read Hebrew even though we don't understand it. Because of the little time to go. But today your kids are much more educated and know a hell of a lot more than the kids did growing up and when we grew up. They don't have the family background that we have. They don't get their Jewishness at home. They may not be as religiously oriented, but they sure as hell know more than we do.
Because of Schefter? Because of some of Schefter? No, I think it's because the whole system is better, the teaching system is better. Jewish education you refer to? Yeah. And the main thing is that you can get a better Jewish education if you want to. if you want to. You've got a Kiba, and you've got Salma Shaftah here. And if you'd have told me 15 years ago that you could have two Jewish state schools, I'd say you're crazy. You didn't have any, uh, all around the book. No, I'm just... No, I was only referring to Jewish aspects as far as Jewish community life. No, you have a chance to, if a kid really wants to get it, he can get it today.
Well, before, the only way you could get anything, you'd have to have private instruction. Because you couldn't get anything in the daily school. What are some of the institutions that you've seen change in? Jewish institutions. well of course the federation is one family service is another the home is something that came yeah let's talk about that a minute the home the early home was on sound boulevard yeah and yes there have been some records that there was there were suggestions of a jewish old-aged home as early as the thirties would you have insight into that i'll tell you solovine may be able to to give you some insight, because his father was active in that.
Check with Saul on that Okay Because his father was active in that That one of the things he was very active What about Hebrew free love Were you involved in that Not only in the way of giving to it. But that's something, you know, that had its roots in the old days when people needed help. Today, I don't know what they're doing with their money, because you don't run into where a few hundred dollars can help anybody. But in the old days, they would put a guy in business or help him stay in business. What are some of the clubs that you've seen? Were you familiar with the T-double-O club?
No. Or the F-H-H club? Yeah, I remember that. But that was, they were only social clubs. Everybody formed clubs in those days. I don't even remember the name of the one I belonged to. It was like we'd have a basketball team and we'd throw a dance for uniforms and all that kind of crap. But I don't remember the names of all of them. The FHH is one of the few that remains. I think there's still a bunch of those guys around. Okay, but you said that a lot of them were organized at that point in time, just as a recreational group? That's all it was, yeah.
That, what time was that? Well, that was all during those years, the 20s and 30s. after we all got home from the army in the 40s none of us had time to prove with anyone then we got involved in community work what about the girls what about the girls did they say that they have okay didn't live here then she comes from denver would you remember about the girls club where there was girls club i'm sure they were i'm sure Sure, there was Junior Hadassah and Hadassah. And there must have been... They were all...you had those...it was parallel like the Yom Jitteans. Now the Yom Jitteans always had a program of you know their programs were educational Right Because they would have debating teams and you go all over the state and all that sort of thing Were they here in the 30s, Young Judeans?
Yeah. Was there an active group in the 30s? I think so, yeah. Now, Julius Israel worked with... The Yen Judeans. The Yen Judeans. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember the time frame of that? In the 20s and 30s, I'm sure. But in the 30s, I wouldn't be so sure because, see, in the 30s, I was already out of college. I got out in 34. See, I was gone from 1930 to 34 at school. It was at SMU from 28 to 30. Let's go back to the Hebrew school for a minute. I remember that there was an issue of the Hebrew letters being on the Hebrew bus.
Do you remember that controversy? Yeah. That was stupid. That was when we had a, you know, we had school in North Dallas and school in South Dallas. And somebody objected to the Hebrew letters on the bus in North Dallas. I don't remember who in the hell it was, but we didn't think anything. Do you remember any other earlier objections on it? Or to it, I should say. No, I don't. But I do remember that and thought it was stupid. well do you have any other thoughts that you can think of as far as memories that you have as far as the community is concerned it's a hell of a lot better community today than it was Well, that's got to do it, but it's just a better community today than it is.
Well, what we did, we worked for the things we wanted at our time, not somebody else's time. Let them have what they want. Let them build in the direction they want their kids to do What have you done for working at Dallas I like that How have you worked in a Dallas what are some of the things you done with them Some of the things you've been involved with in the general... Community test, you were chairman of the community test drive. No, community test, trust fund. Trust fund, trust fund, community test test. I'm the only Jew that was ever chairman of them. I understand. About what year?
about five years ago. Then I'd work for the seminary. You've been active there. Can you imagine? I've been active in the, I try to be active in the entire community. And I work for the, you know, work raising money for the community chestnuts, the United Fund. About it. I worked for the Selznyship Club and belonged to Rotary at one time. Until I felt long after me was Selznyship Club. What about the cultural arts? Have you been involved in any of the cultural arts? No, I haven't. No, you can't be with everybody. I think the only one. I don't believe there's been anything. Was it that you'd been involved before that?
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Is that a political thing, do you think? Do you think it's... Honey, everything's political. Okay. Everything's political. You get involved, and if the right people, you're working with the right people, and they like what you've been doing, then you get in. Otherwise, slowly but surely, you get left out. Have you had feelings of anti-Semitism, or have you experienced anti-Semitism in the community? I have not, no. I have not. Personally, I have not. Do you know of some of the other people who have been involved in community? Have they had experiences with any subject? Well, I'm sure there must have been because no Jew ever was president of the Community Chest or the United Fund.
Do you list Dr. Warren? The program for the Jewish Theological Council of America. That's nice. It's really nice. Really, as far as I can see, me personally, I've never run into it. Do you ever remember the Ku Klux Klan? Oh, yeah. I grew up in the days of the quickness. What are some of the things they did? Well, they tried to take over. They did take over a lot of your community stuff. You know, they were in the city government and all that, and they tried to take over the state, and old Maul Ferguson beat them. What were some of the things they did? Well, I wouldn't remember offhand what they did, but you could never be sure of your position.
I think at one time they controlled the police department But oh yeah in the old days we used to some of us used to fight our way to school and fight our way back But that you know I don call that, that was young days. When you're talking anti-Semitism, you're talking big stuff, not just little stuff. Well, you know, fighting your way to school and back is not Yeah, but we, most of the Jewish boys around here did in those old days, because we lived in the area where these guys were, and they learned to respect us and leave us alone. Let me start, and I think the National Conference of Christians and Jews still got this award.
I'm sorry, I have to say. That's very nice. Absolutely. That really is nice. so i am proud of him well you should be absolutely where you should be proud of well it's something to be proud of and you know it's important well we all did our share in shaping the jewish community