Sol Katz
Sol Katz grew up in South Dallas, then the dense heart of the city's Jewish population, where he recalled walking home from Forest Avenue High School alongside classmates from every part of the community. He witnessed firsthand the sharp divide between the Reform community and the more traditional families, a split so severe that Jewish children who studied and played together during the day rarely socialized outside of school. His family later moved to North Dallas, to Wycliffe and Prescott, during the 1930s, a move that neighbors regarded with surprise. He completed his medical training at Parkland in 1938 and served as a Dallas city health officer and epidemiologist before entering private practice in 1939.
Katz served in the military in the early 1940s, was wounded, and remained on active and temporary duty until around 1946. After the war he returned to Dallas to rebuild his medical practice while becoming increasingly involved in community affairs. As president of the United Hebrew School of Dallas, he struggled constantly to meet payroll for teachers, often personally calling on a handful of generous benefactors for short-term loans. He recalled a memorable occasion when a bank president extended a five thousand dollar note on the strength of the school's name alone, remarking that he had never known a Jewish organization to renege on its debts.
Katz became a leading force behind the Jewish Community Center, an idea he traced to a boyhood summer in Omaha, where he encountered the AZA youth movement, and to his own high school experience of a divided community. Working with a small committee and only a hundred dollars from a Federation youth chairman, he organized dances and programs for teenagers and introduced membership dues to qualify for Community Chest support. He faced strong opposition from established community leaders but persisted, hiring a social worker and athletic director and using an old former YMHA building until the city condemned its gymnasium. His accounts offer valuable insight into the origins of organized Jewish youth and education programs in Dallas.
Full Transcript
November the 2nd, 1999. So I'm going to ask you a number of questions. You've been active in the Jewish Community Center, you've had things to say about Jewish education, you've watched this community. I'm going to read to you an excerpt from minutes of an executive committee meeting of the Federation from October 30, 1951. Okay, it says Morris, oops, wrong one. This is Saul Katz talking now, and it's about Jewish education. And the question is, should they be giving money to the Hebrew School of Dallas? Quote, the chief difficulty in the entire discussion is that most people are not aware of the total educational problem, observed Dr.
Katz. There are a few problems, he added, that are peculiar to Jewish education. The issues exist in all phases of education. Jewish, Catholic, non-sectarian in the situation in Dallas there's been a double approach. One, theoretically we have insisted that we had to decide on the principle of whether the community should be responsible for Jewish education in Dallas. He pointed out that a precedent had already been established by Federation support to national education institutions of various liens. Now, he said, it is a question of the local scene, and it has already been established that the sense of the local Jewish education committee is that the community is responsible for Jewish education, too.
What will be the practical formula by which we can apply this principle? Okay, now they go on to argue. They're trying to straighten them out again. But I gather that there was a real reluctance to finance this particular Jewish education. And as far as I can tell, they didn't do very much about the United Hebrew School. I'd be interested in your view, your opinion, about the community attitudes about Jewish education before that time during that time and what your impression is after that In order to give you in order to understand the thought of the day at that day you have to know what the Jewish community was like during that period of time.
The Jewish community at that time was completely divided. We had two Jewish communities. We had the Reformed community and the rest of us. Now, the community organization, as represented by the Federation at its beginning, was absolutely controlled or influenced, I think it's a better word than controlled, was influenced by the reformed segment of the community. At that time, anything that smelled of Jewish values as we understood it in a more traditional way was not acceptable. in the form of social service was fine. But the moment you introduced a flavor, any type of flavor of Jewish education in a traditional way, that was passé. And that is why there was a reluctance on the part of the Federation money to go into local Jewish education.
And the reason that there was such a reluctance was that the powers that be on the leadership on the Reformed side was ultra, ultra, ultra Reformed. It is not in existence today, but at that time it was ultra Reformed. They make statements which to me are really fascinating They keep saying we all for Jewish education as long as it for kids whose families aren affiliated with congregations and who can afford to pay it But congregation, anybody who's a congregation member, we're not going to pay for it. Which seems to be a wonderful way to stay away from it and still sound holy. We've always felt, and traditionally, as far as Jewish education is concerned, traditionally, it was always offered to anyone, to anyone.
However, if the community felt that the family could support it financially, it was imperative that that child pay the going rate. However, there was always an argument whether the child should be punished because of the parent's reluctance to pay. in my experience there was only one child that we expelled because of the parents reluctant we meaning no no no no no sheriff or the Hebrew school of Dallas did the Hebrew school of Dallas ever get money from the federations? I can find it in a minute, but I want to know. I really don't recall. I don't think so, because I'll tell you why I don't think so.
I don't recall. Do you know the story of the Hebrew School of Dallas, how it came about? Well, what little I know is that it started out of the sheriff's Israel school, and then I then it was made independent the way it happened a good as a had a there were three men that were in partnership there was a man by the name of captain not Sherman captain family but there was a different Kaplan spelled with a C The Barron, the Kaplans, and what was the other family? Anyway, one of the sons died on the Kaplan's side. His name, his Hebrew name was Herzohyko. the father established the Herzog Haikot Talmud Torah.
I read the name. Okay. And they put up a building near Agudasachem. And actually it was more or less a Agudasachem Hebrew school. At that time, Shared Israel had a Sunday school and a five-day Hebrew school. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay? Now, Agudasachem was always in financial problems, and Herzog Haikal Talmatora, as a matter of fact, Agudasachem went kaput, I mean, they went out. Herzog Haikal Talmatora couldn't afford to insist. Now, were they on Park? Was that right? They were what? Were they on Park? Was that the name of the street they were on? Oh, no, no, no, they were way down deep south Dallas, in Wendelkin someplace, the building over there.
So we decided to combine the two, and we called it the Hebrew School of Dallas, thinking that perhaps the Federation would support us. But I really don't recall that we had any support, And the reason I say that, because every, almost every month, I was short. I was the president of the Hebrew School of Dallas at that time. And I was always short to pay the teachers, financially short. Okay, this after the war or before the war? No, no, no, this is before the war. Okay, let me refresh your memory then. There's two Hebrew schools that are in the record. One is the Hebrew School of Dallas.
The other one is the United Hebrew School. That was the United Hebrew School of Dallas. It was the United Hebrew School. OK. So in 19, when they first formed the new Federation in 1923, I think it was, the people from Sheriff Israel, according to the ministry, no, no, no, that's before your time, refused to, said that they wouldn't contribute to the new Federation unless they took in the Jewish Community Center. They didn't have a Jewish community center. No, no, no, I said, well, maybe this was later on that they threatened, because I picked this up in the minutes of 32 and 33, or the Hebrews, they had to support the truth.
In 1934, 33 or 34, the Hebrew scroll, which had been getting $10,000 a year, agreed or decided, I'm not sure which, to go off on their own for a year with the feeling that they could come back. and when they decide to come back in 1934 the answer is no you can't I don't know if this and in 34 I was not in 34 I was not involved with the industry oh okay I I so when did you become involved if it's before the war it's got to be at at the latest. Well, maybe, let me, this is, I really, I guess it was after the war.
Okay. It was after the, it had to be after the war. Okay, because this discussion I read to you is in 1951. This must be after the war. Yeah, and they weren't getting any money. Before the war, I was involved in other things, and I was still in... Let me recall my situation. I got out of Parkland in 1938. I finished my training in 1938. I was a city epidemiologist. I was the city health officer at 38, and I went into practice in 39. And I was still the health consultant. As a matter of fact I had to make a at that time Baylor Medical School was in Dallas and they moved to Houston and I had to make a survey to see whether Dallas could support another medical school And then, in 40, early 41, I went into the service.
So I couldn't have been involved with this. Okay, in 51 they decided they're not going to give any money, and there's some statements. about the big givers not being very happy about giving money that's more like it yeah the reason I question whether we ever got any money from Federation was because as I say I was always short and there were three people in the city that I could pick up the phone and and say look I need two thousand dollars I need three thousand dollars and I'd go to mr. Rachovsky who was very and I'd need a signature because I didn't have a window for to throw that and I'd either call Jake or Max pleasure or mr.
top of there was an oil man here who was very very liberal one the reason I say that I doubt when we ever got any money because one time I still old Mercantile Bank two thousand dollars I needed another three thousand dollars that month and all three men were out of town so I went over across the street to the Republic National Bank and Jimmy asked them who used to be oh sure I mean I knew it wonderful I'll never forget this you couldn't do this today you couldn't do this today so I went over to Republic National Bank and I figured if I talked
to a vice president I would be ushered out so I asked for the president and I went to see Jimmy asked him and I introduced myself and I told him what I needed that I needed $3,000 for the Hebrew School of Dallas he says is that all you owe I said no I owe of the market you like he says that you need five thousand dollars now mind you this is in those days five thousand dollars was a lot of money yeah of course so he didn't ask me anything more or anything else he pressed the button and he asked the girl the secretary to
make out a note for five thousand dollars and I nearly pissed my pants he says Simon and I looked at it and I said mr. Eston I'm not worth $5,000 he says sign it as the president of the United Hebrew School of Dallas and I looked at it and he said I have now this This is a statement I've never forgotten. He says, in my experience, and he was the city manager there for a while. Oh, was he? Yeah, before he became president of the Republic of the National Bank. He says, in my experience, I have never known of a Jewish organization that reneged on its debts, and I got $5,000.
so that's why I think III doubt whether we got any money from Federation because I didn't even think of going I don't think so but I still have to check that let's let's switch now to the Jewish community center and let me start work with my question then we'll go back to how you got the idea and how we got going. It's in the 1950s, I think, early 1950s. There's a statement that you made, you know, because you were president of the center of the town, that the Jewish, this is a discussion about the community chess, okay? And there's a discussion that, where you say that the Jewish community center has started to charge membership dues.
and that the membership income from the membership dues is going to be an offset against the community. There's going to be a refund to the community chestnut. I gather up until that time that the building was really used as a meeting place for organizations. There no mention of not much mention of income What this whole business about membership fees like it was a new deal and then let switch back to how the fee got started Right after we had the organization, created the organization for the community center. This is after the war? Oh, yes. Okay, because there's a building that was bought. I'll tell you.
Okay, but let's... You want to talk about the building or the community center? I want to talk about the community center, but you're going to have to connect the building with it for me somewhere. So let's start with the building. Okay. The building was an old, old building that was created and put up, and that's where the problem is with Ginger Jacobs' story. was built and created by the YMHA, which dated way before the Federation and dated way before the... Sometime in the 1890s or 1880s, somewhere in there. How far back, I don't know. But I remember it as a kid. I remember playing basketball there, but it was really built.
it was the YMHA. Okay? Now, the YMHA went defunct. And when the Federation, when the Federation started, I don't remember, but I remember this, that initially it was a very weak and ineffective organization that was placed in that building. yeah sometime in the 1930s I don't imagine I don't remember the I mean I recall that one of them really there's a statement that it's the 10th anniversary since the Federation took over the building so yeah yeah the as a matter of fact I remember that there was a lady there on mrs. Conn I believe her name was that was killed oh yeah this is Julius Cohn or Cohn yeah it was killed there I remember that yeah she was either the social worker for she was a social worker and the first The director of the Federation was a fellow by the name of, uh, Do you think of Levy?
George Levy? George Levy. Yeah. George Levy. That, that, that's as far back as I can recall. Okay. Okay. Now, as far as YMHA was concerned, it was dead for years and years and years. But the Federation, so to speak, took it over. Okay. Then, I come on a seat. now exactly what time it was but it was 48 or 49 I don't remember but no and the way it came about the way it came about or why it came about you're going to know why it came about okay I had referred to the fact that the community was divided. Ninety-eight percent of the Jewish children went to Forest Avenue High School.
Okay? I would say ninety-eight percent. We were there all day long. we studied together we played together we were involved in different activities together we walked home together until five or six o'clock in the afternoon and until Saturday or Sunday and meditate we never saw each other. And when we graduated, we never saw each other. The afternoon shadow, you know, you have a final card. So it wasn't just between Jews and Gentiles, it was between Jews and Jews. So the Reformed community lived in South Dallas as well? Oh, yes. Okay. And, you know, we used to walk together every other house. We lived on one corner and across the street somebody else lived.
You know, as far as the... It was really dense dense Yeah south Dallas was really dense I say 90 a few Jews lived elsewhere but 90 of Jews lived in South Dallas Yeah, Lakeview isn't set up yet. You know, there were a few. I remember when we moved to North Dallas, and that was in, we moved to Wycliffe, and then Prescott, and that was in the 30s, and everybody looked at us. I was at SMU at that time. And they looked at us like, we're leaving the town. We're leaving the city. Okay? So, I always, I don't know where I got this idea, but I'll tell you where I got the idea.
During one summer, I went to Omaha to visit some of my cousins. across the street lived Kletznick. Oh, yeah, Phil Kletznick. He was from Kansas City, but I don't know if he was there that summer. No, no, he was, Kletznick was from Omaha. Sam Bieber and Kletznick were both from Kletznick. They were from Omaha. He lived across the street from the cousin that I visited. and of course he was a ZA yeah and the first chapter of a CA and so they gave me when I spent the summer there and when I was going back to Dallas they gave me all sorts of material to organize a day say chapter in Dallas because by then they have already had several you know around the country but the original was and I like the I like what what I saw in Omaha about the young people you know there was Omaha had a big Jewish community oh yeah the 20s and 30s right so I like you know that I admit sure that they had but I was I was a freshman at SMU at the time, or I was going to be a freshman at SMU, and I didn't have time for this thing but I liked the idea So when I came home I called a bunch of kids and I called Oscar Yute and Jaime Yute and Jaime was a very very big demole and I was a demole Oh, okay.
So, am I straying too far? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's all right. I'll put together what I need to put together. I want to keep your straying. Okay, but you say, why? Where did I get this idea? so I got Oscar the us the youth a boys Oscar and I mean I said let's get a bunch of kids together have it at my house and I'll give him this stuff I said I cannot participate I was upstairs studying I was upstairs studying and They were... Okay. And they organized a chapter, and I never joined it, but it was organized in my home.
So later on, I used to, you know, talk to Bernie all the time. Bernie Shady. and that's where it's the community center really started oh all right because Bernie was chairman for a while too no no he had never to let never okay yeah it had nothing to do with the community except he was the big he was the he was the C and this is the way it happened so I used to talk to them about we used to talk about the division the mo you have to you don't appreciate the severity of the division with a individual Mary it was from one side or the other it was intermarried with mixed marriage it was a mixed marriage it was
you know it was you look back at it now you say how could it be but that's the way it was so we used to discuss this all time that's it and this is such a pity I said we go to school together we grow up and we have nothing to do with each other I said there ought to be some place because my idea was not the community center they have now My idea was for the young people For the young people So lo and behold the Federation began to evolve you know And Bernie Shannon was appointed a committee chairman for the youth of
Dallas. so he comes to me and he says doc I have a hundred dollars to spend on youth activities what do you think I want to do he says I'll give you the hundred dollars and you go yeah but I stopped you for just a second so then make sure that the Federation already owns this old decrepit building yeah okay it's there it's doing whatever it's doing yeah so he gives me the hundred dollars he says and you go from there so i called on halper who was from the temple dr halper i needed to have some iris because the word Jewish Community Center was a nest of it yeah I know I know about the fight over the building where it was how did you know but this is after the war now right in your home already for the service right so I got help her I got what's her name I have to look at it dr.
I can't wife but there's doesn't matter okay and I got the bill bolder that was it was and I asked you know and I organized the committee and we started talking about it oh yes it's a good idea but look we needed we needed a a social worker we needed somebody that actually would make a program so we needed some money we've got a few men to volunteer men and women we gave a couple of affairs dances and this was my idea particularly to have on the weekend to have some dances for the teenagers so I could get I said we need some admixtures here to get some money now during all this time we had a tremendous, tremendous opposition from the Federation.
The reason why I'm just stopping to think for a minute is that when the war is over, the Federation is already getting money from the community chest for local operations. No, no, no, no. But what you're saying is that you went ahead on your own. I got it right. Right. Okay, no, no, I'm not judging. I'm just talking about the facts. Just the facts, man. That's right. On my own. What was his name? Fred Lang? Fred Lang. God bless him. yeah ah and this is a very nice thing but you have to realize that the opposition that we had involved the leadership in the community headed by rabbi leviola who controlled the thinking of it this is otherwise it's alright to be over there but over here is gather wise it was me by all Jack rabbits was jacket opposed to it or was Jack going along with the leadership turn this off I don't want it okay hold on nothing Levi Olin, Jack Kravitz, Morton Sanger, Irvin Goldberg.
Need I say more? Yeah, this is a group that opposes the building, what became the Julius Sheffs building. They opposed the concept of a Jewish community center regardless where it was whether it was a building That made very clear in the minutes Not from your era necessarily but when they're talking about the new building. Right. So, that's the reason I went to the community chest on my own, because I knew the community chest don't mean two things. You have to charge membership. That's where it came in. And we have to get members. And we have to raise a certain amount of money. I forgot what the...
Yeah, that stuff is in the minutes. Okay, so up until this point then, let me stop you for a minute. I want to understand, there is something called... I can go back, I can show you in a minute, before, you know, in the early 40s, where they're talking about Jewish Community Center. the Jewish Community Center appears to be already in the budget of the Jewish Federation when you're making a report about membership having a charge yeah oh yes oh yeah we were already organized okay all right now let me say it was something sometimes in the 40s yeah yeah this is in the 40s so that's in the late 40s or early 50s but we still did we were we were loose we We were loosely organized, but we did have a social work.
Yeah. We had that organization. Did anybody ever say, did you ever say, did Global say, Oliver Sommel, or anybody else ever say, you know, they're doing this in Omaha, they're doing this in Yehupitz? Yeah. This idea was homegrown. Homegrown. Actually, it was homegrown because of my experience in high school. Okay. All right. But you could have gone out with the Malay, but you picked up the idea with AZA in Omaha. Okay. This is what I'm looking for. I'm looking for that near on the haystack. And as I say, my experience in high school, In other words, there were kids that I wanted to... Anyway. Okay, so here you are, you got membership.
It was not easy No It was not that easy You have to be mindful of the fact that I am fresh from the service I trying to start practice I can get an office I can get a bed in a hospital This is the situation and I'm and I am actually the the prime mover for the group to get this thing going because I go to all the meetings and I fight with Morton Sanger and I fight with Earl Goldberg as a matter of fact we became fast friends you and Morton must have been quite a pair because he doesn't back down for anything but you know we became real good friends.
He and I and Irv Goldberg, who became judge, as a matter of fact. I used to take care of him and his, he used to send me his clerks. He says, you go see Dr. Kess, he's an excellent doctor, he says, but don't talk politics with him. One time he and I really got into it. But anyway, that needs a hair. But those are the people that were the powers, the powers, and they were adamantly opposed to it. So here I go, in all this, I'm trying to get a committee for, a membership committee. And I realize that we're a dirty word and I need a little bit of front I need a little yes so who do I go to I go to Julia Shep's who was a very charitable philanthropic individual great right I sat there all day long in his office I finally cornered him.
I said, Judas, you don't have to do a damn thing. All I need is a little respectability on the committee I just want to use your name You know Judas Scheff being the chairman he refused But in spite of it we did manage to get a program going some membership going and we got already an athletic director along with a social worker Well, let me ask you another question. I don't know that I'm going to use this because I'm not going to be dealing with management. I'm trying to stay away from this whole business of a professional role. But George Levy, from what I read, seems to have been a very interesting guy.
Was he any help to you? No, that was way after George Levy. Okay, so Jack Kravitz was there. Jack Kravitz was there. So he's no help. He is deterred. Okay, so he's no help. So it was really a small group pushing like crazy. That's right. Okay, let me back up. Let me back up to where you started. And that was the building. And I want to make sure I understand. And the reason I want to understand is because I'm looking at something very important in terms of Ethereum, how an organization gets born. There's a building there that the Federation has owned for 10 or 15 years.
The USO uses it during the war. That's right. Organizations use it. There's reference to dances. There's reference to events there. But that is not the Jewish community center. We used that building for the Jewish community. Yeah, but did the Jewish Community Center take over that building? No. Okay, all right, that explains something else. Now, let me give you an example of what happened. I must have attended at least a dozen meetings, budget meetings. Back up a minute. The city condemned, this building had an old gym and it had a little balcony. Yeah, with a track? Track. The city, we, when we finally got going, we used that building, we did not own that building, we didn't rent the building.
We mean? The Federation let us use the building. Okay? Now the city of Dallas condemns the gym. The gym is 98% of our activity in the Jewish Community Center. Jack Kravitz refuses to do anything about the gym. And that, as far as you're concerned, is one of the ways he uses to try to shut you down? Okay, let me back up just a little bit more, because there's something that isn't quite fitting for me. I don't have it here with me. 1942, a list of committees of the Federation. There's a JCC program committee, and there's a building committee. So the name was being used In 1942 building committee Yeah See they only got the building in 1942 The building committee must have been the building committee for the Federation Yeah.
No, no, this is not the Jewish community. I'm talking about Jewish community, I'm sorry, Jewish Federation committees. Oh, right. There's a Jewish, there's a social service committee, a family and casework committee, whatever they call it, call it a membership committee for the Federation. There is a Jewish Community Center program committee for the Federation. That's the $100. In 42? That's the $100. But they didn't do anything with it. Okay, so they got some... It was just a committee. They've got a name there. A name there. It doesn't do anything. That's right. There was nothing that happened. Why did they come up with that name there? Because all I can tell you is I didn't get back until...
Well you couldn get back before 45 I got back to the States in 43 I was not out of the service until 47 Okay, so you weren't overseas very long. That's a long story. No, no, I mean, here you go. I got knocked on my ass right fast. I didn't last very long. Okay, but you're not discharged until 46 or 47. Yeah, it's about 46 because I was in and out. I was on a temporary duty. See, I'm talking around 46, 47. Yeah, okay. That's the real present Jewish community center. Okay, that's when you really get a committee organized. That's right. But their Jewish community center committee that you have referenced to is probably the committee that Bernie was chairman of at one time.
yeah I don't gave you down the down right well he may have been chairman for three or four years right Bernie over song used to love telling me that he was the first member the first president of the Federation who came from Sherath Israel who wasn a member of Temple Emanuel It probably is. Right. No, no, I'm sure Bernie was right. He was the first Jewish member of the Columbians. The first Sherath Israel member of the Columbians, probably says. Could have been? He said, yeah. Could have been. it was a you know it people when they hear some of us talk about those days they don't they don't realize what whether the body community was well that's made very very clear with when Bob beer starts bringing the properties that are available there is a misstatement in section on the and the Dallas Hebrew School, the referral to $10,000 from the Federation is incorrect.
The correct figure is approximately $3,000.