Stephen Kahn
Stephen S. Kahn was born on February 18, 1901, in Mrs. Souse's boarding house in Dallas. His mother, Cora Neuberger Kahn, was born in Dallas in 1878 but reared in New York, and was a niece of the Sanger brothers - Alexander, Philip, Sam, Isaac, and Lehman - founders of the well-known department store. His father, Jacob Kahn, grew up in Nidavarn (Niederwerrn) in Bavaria as the son of an Orthodox rabbi, later joined relatives in the cotton trade in Liverpool, England, and eventually settled in Dallas as a cotton agent. Jacob met Cora when Philip Sanger arranged for her to visit her uncle in Dallas, leading to a happy marriage.
Kahn grew up on Browder Street area of South Dallas, in what he described as a tight German-Jewish community centered on Temple Emanu-El and the Columbian Club. He attended the Royal Street School and the Terrell School, graduating in 1918, then studied at NYU and worked on Wall Street before returning to Dallas. He entered the cotton business alongside his father's firm, J. Kahn and Company, which traded cotton worldwide. In 1928 he married Fannie Koenigsberg, also Dallas-born. Around 1940 he left cotton and bought a farm at Preston Road and Highway 121, which he worked himself for about twenty years before retiring to volunteer work.
Kahn devoted much of his life to community service. He served on the building committee, and later as chairman, for Golden Acres home for the aged, and was its president in the 1950s. He kept the books as a volunteer for the Community Council of Dallas for roughly eighteen years, as well as for Rose Terrace and the contemporary museum. He served on the building committee for Temple Emanu-El's new building and was a director of the Dallas Mental Health Society. He and Fannie were devoted patrons of the Dallas Symphony, endowing the principal cellist chair. His brother Edmund Kahn was a prominent oilman and philanthropist. Kahn recalled the KKK's resurgence, encounters with anti-Semitism at school and at NYU, and the changing eras of the Dallas economy from cotton to oil, retail, and real estate.
Full Transcript
This is Rose Biederman of the Dallas Jewish Historical Society. The date is Monday, March 26, 1990. And I'm interviewing this morning, Monday, March 26, 1990, Mr. Stephen S. Kahn. His residence is 3601 Turtle Creek Boulevard in Dallas. Mr. Kahn, I'm going to ask you first, were you born in Dallas? Yes, I was born in Dallas. Would you mind telling us what year? I was born on February 18, 1901. Do you remember what part of town or what street you were? Yes, I know exactly where I was born. And I have a picture here of the place. I was born in Mrs. Sousa's boarding house. And that was located where St.
Paul Street now runs into Young. At that time, the street was not there, and of course the old house has now been demolished. But I have a picture of it, which I'll be glad to give you. Oh, wonderful. Were you born at town or in the hospital? I was born in Mrs. Suse's boarding house. I might digress for a moment. My mother said she is not sure if Mrs. Suse was in the room, but if she wasn't, it was the only thing she missed. That's a wonderful comment. And your, please tell me your mother's name. Cora Neuberger-Kahn. And you said she was a Dallas mom.
She was born in Dallas. Do you know what year she was born? She was born on February the 4th, 1878. In Dallas? Yes. Do you know why her parents came to Dallas? Yes I know exactly I will have to digress You heard of the Sanger brothers Yes My grandmother Mrs K was a Sanger sister Whose sister? Philip? She was a sister of Alexander Sanger, Philip Sanger, Sam Sanger, Isaac Sanger, and Lehman Sanger, and two other sisters. and she lived in New York, married Jacob Neuberger, who evidently needed a job, so that she moved to Dallas before my mother was born, of course, and my grandfather had a job in the Dallas stores with his brother-in-law.
Do you know what was his position? I don't know what his position was in Dallas. But after my mother was born, grandmother, who was a strong-minded lady, said that she would not spend the rest of her life in a place like Dallas and move to New York with the whole family and demanded that grandfather be given a job with the New York Buying Office. I think Lehman was the... He stayed in... Lehman stayed in New York as the buyer, I understand. No, Isaac. Isaac, I'm sorry. Isaac. Lehman was in Waco. Lehman and Sam were in Waco. Waco. Alex and Philip were in Dallas. That's wonderful.
So after Mother moved back to New York, that's where she was brought up, and went to New York Public Schools, went to Normal College, which is now Hunter, and graduated in the class of, I think, 97, and then taught in the public schools of New York. Now do you want to know how she met my father Yes All right We father was born in Germany and I can give you the details later but he was living in Dallas, a bachelor, came over, was in the cotton business, and evidently was very friendly with Mr. Alex Sanger, Mr. Philip Sanger, and after he'd lived here a few years and had prospered, he evidently told them that he might consider marriage.
And Philip Sanger said that my sister ate a new burger in New York has three marriageable daughters and we'll send one down. So that's... She came and visited her uncle Philip Sanger and at that point met Jacob Kahn and it was a very happy marriage. Oh, isn't that wonderful? So that's how mother was born in Dallas but reared in New York. That's interesting. Do you know what brought your father to Dallas? Oh, yes. That's another long story. Did he have relatives here? No, no. Do you want the background of my father? Mm-hmm. We always like to know why he came to Dallas. Oh. And many times it was because there was already a relative here.
No, that was not the case. when father grew up in Nidavarn a little town in Bavaria and my grandfather in Nidavarn was an orthodox Jewish rabbi very strict and all of my youth I heard these stories of life in Nidavarn and all of the rigid rigid rule that they followed, like the Shabbos goy and all the rest. And after he matured, he went into some kind of pottery business. But in this I cannot give you the details but he evidently had some relatives in Liverpool England who were in the cotton business they imported cotton from the United States and sold it to the spinners in Manchester and they offered father a job so then he left Germany went to Liverpool and at that point learned English and learned the cotton business.
And through various developments, the people in Liverpool wanted a more personal contact in the United States. And first he made several trips on an annual basis, but then they decided they wanted someone on hand in the United States to watch over the purchases. So that father came to St. Louis and then to Dallas and just started living here. And that was the beginning of the family in Dallas. Very interesting. Well, let's get back to you now. Where did you live your childhood or did you grow up? Well, we left, of course, after a very short time, and this I can't give you the detail, Of course, we moved away from Sousa's boarding house, and then we rented a little place down in that neighborhood.
And I imagine when I was about one or two years old, we moved to a house on South Akron Street, close to Pocahontas. and father bought that house. And we lived there until about 1907. I may have been about eight years old. At that point, Mr. Herb, I think it was Paul Herb, built on St. Louis Street near... Very near the corner of Hackard, St. Louis is now the side road of the expressway and he built a two-story apartment and if I've always heard although I can't prove it that was the first multi-story multi-family dwelling in the city of Dallas. We lived downstairs and above us was Mr.
I.L. Sanger and his wife Mabel and later in that house Evelyn Bell Sanger was born. Was that her parents? there. What? Her parents were... They lived... Mr. and Mrs. Ike Ike Sanger lived there, and Evelyn Bell was born there, and we all lived in that apartment until I went finished high school, which was about 1918. What high school? Well, when I was Let's go back to the beginning. I went to the Royal Street School. You know where Royal Street? Well, yes, I've seen it on an earlier map. Well, it's disappeared, of course. Right, right. And anyway, I went to the Royal Street School, and I might say without indoor plumbing.
Really? Really. And graduated from there. 1914, I imagine. And then when I was ready to go to high school, the only high school in existence was on Bryan Street. Was it Dallas High School? Yeah. And the Forest Avenue High School was in the process of building. But I would have had to go to school from 11 downtown in those days from 11 until 5 So my parents sent me to the Terrell School What do you mean 11 until 5? That was the hours of school? Yeah. I don't know why that was. It was so crowded. It was the only school. Oh, I didn't realize. I see.
I see. So, then I went to Terrell School. You've heard of that. Now, where was that located? Well, it's T-E-R-R-R-L, and it was run by Mr. and Mrs. Mentor Bradley Terrell, and it was on the corner of Bryan and Peake. Oh, okay. I think that's correct, yeah. How did you, what was your transportation? My transportation from St. Louis Street was to get on the Akers Street car, go down to Commerce, walk over to Elm, and get on the line that was then called East on Elm, went out to Bryan, and walked up to Pink, and thought nothing of it. Right. and I graduated from there in 1918.
If I recall, was that a boys' school? That was a boys' school, and right across the back fence from it was Hockaday. Oh, I see. The girls' school. Girls' school. Did you have any Jewish classmates in Terrell? Very few. Very few. I did have, oh, I think maybe just three or four. It was a forerunner of St. Mark's. In fact, as sort of a fundraising gimmick, I can pay dues and become a graduate of St. Mark's, but I never thought it was worth it. What about the Royal Street School? Were there many Jewish children? Well, yes. I mean, all of us lived in this area.
But the interesting thing about the Royal Street School was that the principal was Lila Cowart a maiden lady of considerable age a staunch confederate She'd been in Atlanta when Sherman marched through, and on the, above the blackboard, the front wall was Robert E. Lee on his horse and the Confederate flag and Jefferson Davis, and we never spoke of the Yankees. I can tell that that made quite an impression. Well, I'll tell you a jingle. This is the way she taught the Civil War. In 1861, the terrible war was begun. In 1862, everyone wished... No, in 1862, we said we'd see the Yankees through. In 1863, old Lincoln set the niggers free.
In 1864, we all wished the world was no more. In 1865, he was hardly a southern man alive. So that's the way we learned American history. Well, I learned that jingle as a child. I mean, I can repeat that. I can't repeat something I learned last week. But I thought that line, that line, that third line is really, I mean, that's the way we talked in those days. It was, I mean, it's part of history. Here was a lady that just had no tolerance at all. I mean, it was our background. Nothing to be proud of. All right. I remember that name. Lila Coward. Right.
Yeah. She came in a horse and buggy. Oh, my. Black man drove up every afternoon and picked her up. Is that a bug? Yeah. Of course, when I come to think of it, to digress, when I grew up, the doctor came to my house in those days and paid a house call in a horse and buggy And here I am living in the jet age I really been around a long time I guess sometimes it hard to believe when you stop to think about the changes that you been doing It really is. I assume the Royal Street School was in walking distance of where you were.
everything was in walking distance. The cotton exchange was then on Hackard and Wood Street and the schools on Royal. If I walked down St. Louis Street over to Irving, I was then at Temple Emanuel. If I walked one block further on to Irving and Pocahontas, I was at the Columbian Club. And our whole life at the time I lived in St. Louis Street evolved around this area and all of the families that I knew then lived there. I mean the Sangers lived there. The Philip Sanger, where my mother visited, was on St. Louis and Irving. And Alex Sanger was a further few blocks down. It's Canton and Irving.
The E.M. Cann family was on Katie Street. And all of the old families, the Hexters, the Brombergs, The Harris's, Leon Harris. Leon Harris in a cynical way, that's senior, referred to himself as the Browder Street aristocracy. We all lived there. I walked, and then later, much later, When I was in the cotton business, no, I never, I wasn't in the cotton business, but I could walk down to my father's office. That's what it was. Do you recall, who else lived on Browder Street when you said the Harris River Oh well, Hortense Landauer lived exactly next door and she was born in a little white cottage right next to me and then the Mr.
Herb did so well with this apartment that he built a second one next door which was a four-family building and the Feldman's moved here from Fort Worth and lived next door and the Metzlers and the Ortlieb's on Akron Street Jack and Ella Smith lived right on Irving Street. All of the families, and I might say they were mostly the German-Jewish group, but it was a unit. They lived there, and we could all walk to the temple, and we all belonged to the Columbian Club. If you belonged to one, you belonged to the other. Who was the rabbi? Do you remember the rabbi at Temple? Yes, surely.
There was an earlier one, Dr. Kohut, that was before my day. But we had what we called Dr. Greenberg. We never referred to him as rabbi. And I graduated from Sunday school, and I was confirmed in the temple on St. Louis and Irby Street. And then the Jewish group moved out to South Boulevard and built a second temple on South Boulevard and Harwood. It was actually the third temple. Yes. Do you recall anything about Dr. Greenberg or Rabbi Greenberg? Oh, yes, of course I knew him. I went off through Sunday school with him, and it was a different kind of Sunday school It wasn as detailed and serious as it is now I sure And I know when I got the confirmation he just handed us each speech and it was always the same every year, and we just delivered it.
I'm sure now that you have to write your own, I mean, and so forth. But it was a much simpler life, and I knew him. He was a friend of my father. But the real family friendship of the family was when Dr. Lefkowitz moved here. He, Sadie Lefkowitz and my mother were very good friends. They spoke nearly every day. And Louis Lefkowitz, the oldest son, was my very close friend. Unfortunately, he died many years ago. Would you want to compare the two rabbis? Were they different in any way? Which two? Lefkowitz and Greenberg. Yes, they were entirely different. Dr. Greenberg, as I recall, was a Ph.D.
from Heidelberg. And he was a very serious student, and I might say, gave a very dull lecture. When the Lefkowitzes came, they became part of the community. And we were all supposed to say Aunt Sadie and Uncle Dave. And we knew all of the family, and it was entirely different. Now, Dr. Greenberg had relations. He was sort of related to Hortense Sanger. I'd have to think exactly how that happened. But he was a much more serious person. But Sadie, she established a sisterhood. She sang in the choir. She was just part of a community. We all loved the Lefkowitzes. I mean, it was different. Dr Greenberg was he seemed to have a very deep interest in love for music Do you recall anything about that?
No, I really don't. But he played a part in the community and he was highly respected. But there was a younger group came, and they built a new temple, and they wanted a more dynamic, outgoing person. And I probably shouldn't say it, but they simply made the change. My father, who- I don't think that's unusual. Well, in those days, it was pretty rough. I mean, he was just turned off, and there was no pension. There was no nothing. And my father, who was the son of a rabbi, just could never accept that you'd treat a rabbi. But he was friendly with Lefkowitz, but he would have no part in the change.
Some of his friends were interested, but it was not his. Oh, I understand. Do you recall, did people have family gatherings in your younger days, or did you get together for holidays? Oh, sure, we did all of those things. That Colombian club was right around the corner, and my folks belonged to what they called the bowling crowd, and the Hexters and the Larchers and the Leibmans. Every Monday night, they went and had a bowling party. I think mostly the women gossiped and the men did the bowling. Now, was there bowling at the club? Oh, yes. It was in the basement. There were bowling hours. I see.
I see. Yeah. Oh, it was a very tight community. I think I can use that word. I mean it was this group and they just stuck together Well I certainly yes You certainly painted that picture That the way I remember it We always saw the same people and always we went together Then we moved out to South Boulevard and there were many Jewish people up and down South Boulevard. But then when they moved north to the new temple, it was entirely different. And by that time, many new families moved here and kept moving here, and it all increased, and it wasn't the small, tight group that really started it.
That's my memory of it. How long did you live on St. Louis Street? 1918. And then where did you move? Oh, then I went off to college and I worked in New York a while and then I moved back to Dallas and in 1928 Fannie and I got married. She of course was born here too. How did you meet Fannie? On our 60th wedding anniversary, we gave a party, and the invitation was a picture of a birthday party that was given for a little girl named Phyllis Pike. I'll tell you who she was. And Fannie is sitting on the ground at the age of one.
I'm standing in the back of her at the age of about six. So if you ask me how long I've known her, it's been a... The program said we've been acquainted 80 years and married 60. But of course, that wasn't very... Thank you. Okay, after, I don't believe you told me where you went to college. I went to NYU, and after I left college, I worked in New York on Wall Street, and then came back to Dallas and went in the cotton business. and at that time, as I told you, my father represented an English firm. To digress for a minute, the firm consisted of A.
Stern & Company in Liverpool and A.L. Wolfe & Company in New York and Mr. Wolfe was a staunch German. and in World War I, the British discovered that Mr. Wolf was shipping cotton to Denmark to be trans-shipped to Germany and that blew up the firm. So father stayed with the English branch and was the agent and was a partner in the firm, which after the division became known as M. and B. Stern, Morris and Berdolph Stern. And father was the Dallas partner. And then when the war came on, the British had a regulation that if any firm had a foreign partner, it had to be shown on the letterhead.
So that would have had to be J Conn Dallas parenthesis Bavaria So that was a friendly division but father secretly was still a partner and every year he get it get some money from them if they had a profit but in order to keep that name that birthplace off the letterhead The father established Jay Kahn & Company and continued on that basis. Several years later, A.L. Wolf & Company got into financial trouble. the local Mr. A.L. Wolf had died anyway the firm had to liquidate and they had a Dallas office A.L. Wolf and Company did and the head of A.L. Wolf and Company was a young man named Robert Mayer and father was then getting in his 70s and figured he wanted someone else, an associate, and he approached Robert Mayer who was then looking for a job and they became partners.
They never changed the name. It was always just Jay Kahn and Company. But Mr. Robert Mayer was a much more dynamic person than father and he didn't want to be just an English agent. And from that point on, the firm prospered greatly and shipped cotton all over the world. And after my father died, Mr. Mayer continued, and my brother was also a member of the firm, and that continued until the early 40s I imagine I'm not sure. Maybe the middle 40s, but no, no. No, my brother remained in the... No. My brother was also in the firm, Edmund. And then the war came. And by the way, I was too young for the First World War and too old for the Second.
So I had no part in either of them. But Edmund became a lieutenant in the Army, but he was then vice president of the Cotton Exchange. And when he returned, he was by then a major, and then he became president of the Cotton Exchange. But after a few years, Mr. Mayer was then growing older, and the cotton business had had various changes, and Edmund didn't think it would be as prosperous. And he and Mr. M. C. Kramer, an oil man, went into business together, and the firm of J. Kahn and Company was liquidated. and as an oil man my brother prospered very well and no we had to back up just in about the 1940s I decided that I was not made for the cotton business so the cotton business wasn't made for me and I resigned and bought a farm, and that was about 1940.
And I've been retired ever since, which was a good long time. And I worked my farm for about 20 years and then I just devoted myself to volunteer projects or what have you Where was the farm located? Farm was located in the corner of Preston Road and Texas Highway 121. Oh my goodness. If I owned it now, I would have many... If I owned the land now and had not sold it, it would be worth many millions of dollars. Unfortunately, I don't own it. Was it a working farm? Oh, yes. And I went out every day, and I felt if I didn't drive the tractor and plow my own land that I shouldn't have it.
And I worked at it and developed it, and it was in beautiful shape. And a couple of years ago, I drove out and looked at it. It was a complete wreck, of course. But now it's such valuable property that they're waiting for development to get out there. Could I ask you just for a brief comment about the cotton business? because cotton played such a big part in the Dallas economy. I would venture to say until maybe the Second World War. That's right. Well, there were several phases in the economy of taxes. One was farming, and then it became the cotton business. and the important people in the financial field were all the cotton people.
And then when it changed, it became the oil business and then the retail, and then the real estate business. But the cotton men were considered the top financial and business people. There were some other Jewish members of the cotton business. Oh yes, it was Mr. Theo Marcus who was the brother of Herbert Marcus and it was Mr. J.L. Goldman. I doubt that you would remember him. He had a son, Felix Goldman, which was my age, but he died. And I don't really know of any member of the family that's here. I can't think of the others right at the moment well I just speaking of the cotton business when we were in the cotton business we had agents all over the state of Texas and Oklahoma and they would buy the cotton at the gym.
And then we would warehouse it. And they would buy it, well, back up. Raw cotton in the bale, the value is determined by the color of it and the length of the staple. and our cotton people would buy it in the country and the Jenners really weren't aware of these distinctions. So we would then warehouse it, reclass it, and would then raise the value of it because our classer was a trained English specialist and sorted out into 100 bale lots of the same quality. That's the way the mill would buy it. They wanted 100 bales of middling 15-16s, and that may have taken half a dozen purchases for us to put it together.
And it was our classification. When I bought my farm in the 40s and I raised cotton, I took the cotton to the gin and the man said, I give you so much for it And I said well how can you do that You haven classed it He said what are you talking about And I said what is the grade What is the staple? He said, well, Mr. Kahn, I remember his saying, well, Mr. Kahn, I couldn't pay you more than I do Mr. Jones. It's all cotton. By the time I left in the 60s, Every bail was sent to the Department of Agriculture and had a government certificate on it.
So the variation was no longer there. And one of the main elements of the profit was lost. And that's one thing that discouraged my brother. Because at the end, I would take my cotton to the gin and they'd tell me, come back in a week, when the government's class, your cotton will give you a certificate. So then they were all just certificates. Yeah. That's one of the phases of it. People are unaware of that aspect. Yeah. I believe you said you were married in 1928. Yes. Is that correct? And you continue to live in Dallas? Yes. When we were first here for the first few months or so, we lived in a couple of apartments.
But in 1933 or 1934, the latest, we built a house on St. Louis Street designed by O'Neill Ford. and we paid $3,000 for the lot. On that one street? Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. On Mercedes Street, Mercedes Street, yes. Oh, no. Sorry. Mercedes Street. And Mrs. Abrams owned that land. Was Abrams Road? Oh. Well, she owned a big lot and she broke it up and O'Neal Ford, our architect, heard about it. And we went out and bought a lot from Mrs Abrams for and we built a house for and we furnished it for and that is what I had in the bank and I paid for the house Now, of course, since then, we lived in it for 46 years.
We built another room on it, and, of course, air-conditioned it and so forth. So I did spend more than $10,000, more than $12,000. But just imagine being able to move into a brand new two-story house for $12,000. Of course, all times have changed. But if you're speaking of old times, well, that was it. And you lived there until what year? 77. We've lived here 12 years. Yeah, because of Fannie's health condition. We couldn't keep up the lawn and garden the way we wanted, and we didn't want to, and Fannie couldn't go up and down stairs, and we didn't want to bother with elevators and that kind of thing.
Were there other Jewish people in that area of town? Would that be called Lakewood? Yes. No, very few. The only other one was Mr. and Mrs. Alfred Bromberg, who lived over. And they had a large house, incidentally, also built by Neal Ford over on Wendover Road. and Mrs. Bromberg is a widow and about my age still lives in that house she wouldn't move out like we did. She's devoted to that house and that's her retreat and that's where she lives. I don't know if you you probably don't know her. No, I spoke to her once on the phone but I never... She wouldn't do this.
I spoke to her because I wanted some information about Pike, Mr. Pike. Oh, Mr. Pike. I know you mentioned Turn it off You said you moved to Lakewood in the 30s I moved to Lakewood in 1918. No. You built your house after you were married. Oh, oh, oh, that, oh, that. I mean, that wasn't a Lakewood area. No, I was thinking of South Boulevard. I'm sorry, I was wrong. Yes, yes. And so, but you continued to, your temple was Temple Emanuel, which was on. Always, yes, yes. And I believe Temple opened about, roughly about 1920. That's correct, yes. And so you continued with your affiliation with Temple Emanuel.
Oh, yes, yes. Was your wife also reformed? Oh, yes. Her chief interest was the Council of Jewish Women. She was never very active in the sisterhood, although she was always a member, but that was not her activity. Did most of the Jewish people who had lived in the St. Louis, Irby Street, City Park area, did they move to South Boulevard? Did the temple follow the congregation, or did people start dispersing into other areas of the city? No, they were, by and large, they moved out to South Boulevard. In fact, they were there, That's why the temple was built there. So it didn't really bother you that you moved away from the center of Jewish life, let's call it, which was the temple on South Wiligord in many years?
Oh, yeah, that was all gone. That was all gone. I mean, it didn't... What's the automobile? Did that make the difference? It could well have. But I think a lot of people started moving into other areas. Yeah. No. By that time, of course, even the last few years when we lived in St. Louis Street, Father had an automobile. Yeah, by then... It was all, it was, that was one of the phases. When the temple left South Dallas and South Boulevard and moved to its present location on the Northwest Highway in Hillcrest, how did the congregation change in your memory? Or did it change? Well, it grew to some extent with the city, but of course it's changed more radically just in the last few years with Rabbi Zimmerman.
I mean, he had put in, he had just developed the temple to be more of a, I don't like to use the word community center, but it's more community involvement. and he has brought in somewhat more of the traditional and I think all of us feel that this is what the present congregation want and it's quite acceptable as far as I'm and my friends are concerned but it is different Did Rabbi Owen make changes? Well, Rabbi Olin was quite different. Again, he was different from Rabbi Lefkowitz. Rabbi Olin was a real serious student. You know, I'm sure that he had a room at SMU, and he spent a great deal of his time there and was part of the SMU faculty and was very much interested in SMU.
And he was not the parochial type. He left it to the other rabbis. But he had a great following and gave much more intellectual lectures than Rabbi Lefkowitz and I had great regard for Rabbi Olin He was the first one that I addressed by his first name. Dr. Lefkowitz was always... It was in Dr. Lefkowitz's day, and when Rabbi Owen came that he trained from Dr. Lefkowitz to Rabbi Lefkowitz. Remember, he never used that title in my early days. At least my group didn't. Now, there were other groups, but I don't know about them. I recall you always referred to as Dr. Lefkowitz. I'm going to ask you about your...
personal involvement in the city. Were you active in Jewish organizations before you were married or after you were married? Well, after I came back, I was vaguely interested in the Federation, but it was when Golden acres was being built that my friend Irving Goldberg was president and he I remember he asked me one day when we were having dinner together you were always interested in speaking to me in building and construction and things like that how would you like to be on the building committee of the new home for the 80s that's developing. And I was glad to do it, and I took a great interest in it, traveled to various other homes that were then in existence, and worked with the architect and was on the building committee, and then after a couple of changes, I was chairman of the building committee, And since that time, I've always had a great interest in Golden Acres.
Well, I know you were president at the point in the 50s. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. But you see when I kept my farm I had to keep a set of books And I had a course in bookkeeping somewhere along the line And so I was looking for some volunteer work. and I went to the Community Council of Dallas, which then recruited various volunteers. And they asked me what abilities I had, and I said that, well, I can keep a set of books. Well, they were just looking for one, and I kept the books for the Community Council of Dallas for, well maybe 18 years something like that and if you look at some of the old annual reports of the community council they list members of the staff my name is on there parenthesis volunteer so and I enjoyed that very much and I was then aware of all of the various activities, social agencies, and what they were doing and I kept books for them.
And Gary told me that you kept books for the Rose Terrace. That's right. And the community and the Contemporary Museum. Oh, really? There was a contemporary museum for a few years, you know. Right. Well, they established that, and I wrote all their checks and kept up. I was a treasurer for the museum, so this little ability of being able to keep books was something people wanted. Oh, sure. I read that you were a director of the Dallas Mental Health Society. Did you have much involvement with that? Not too much. Not too much. Okay. I also understand you were on the building committee of Temple Emanuel for the new building, the President Building.
Yes, that's true. Yeah. So you were involved in that as well as the Golden Eye Institute Yeah Louis Tobian of course was the chairman Yeah and Howard Meyer of course was the architect and Howard Meyer and his wife Sean and Fannie, and I were very close friends. This is Monday, March the 26th, 1990. I'm continuing speaking with Mr. Stephen Kahn. I'm going to just ask one more question about the temple, the present temple building. You were involved with the building of the building and you just said that you and Mr. Howard Meyer were very good friends. Do you have any particular memory about the dedication of the building, anything that sticks in your mind or any outstanding event.
Yes, I'll tell you a good story. All right. You know, I had a farm, and I was on the building committee of the temple, and it was a very dry summer. In fact, we had to haul water on the farm, which was most unusual because we had a well that had never gone dry before, and it got to the point where we were going to plant all those pecan trees and I said to Lou Tobian Lou, we can't do that this is a dry season and these trees will die you'll waste your money and Lou Tobian said Steve, this is the house of God we have to have faith we're going to plant those trees you give the orders You mean on the grounds of the new temple?
Of the new temple. So we planted the trees, and at that point, Fanny and I went on our summer vacation, and when I got to New York after we drove and made several stops, and in a couple of weeks I got to New York, and I, oh, I digress a minute. We were having all these problems on the farm, and every Sunday my farm manager would tell me how the Baptists had all... had a session praying for rain so anyway we got to new york and i phoned the man and i said woody how are things going he said mr khan it's just wonderful we had the fine rain the waters running over the dam at lake dallas and he paused he said you people sure know how to pray That's my favorite story about the building.
Some of the countries at Temple Manual get fun. Yeah. You people know how to pray. Well, that is a wonderful story. All right. I'm going to ask you, has music played a large part in your life? Yes, I have no ability to play, and I have no real background of music, but Fannie and I have always belonged to the symphony, and we go to all of the concerts and belong to the various organizations that bring musical attractions to Dallas. Everything this side of Fair Park Musicals, which I don't bother with. But as you see, these are all my records and cassettes, and now I've gone in for a few CDs.
Yes, it's very important. We enjoy music, and we go together, and we always have. I imagine I've been a member of the symphony when we were married, which was just about, I imagine, when it was established. And Fannie had a more musical education. She could sing. And if you notice in this program of her graduation commencement, Forrest Avenue High School 1923 and piano solo consolation Felix Mendelson Miss Fanny Kittigsberg So, it's been one of our interests, yes. So she's actually had... She's had real training, and she also sang. and I mentioned that the Feldmans lived next door to us but later she and Bessie Feldman later became Mrs.
Nathan were very good friends and they sang duets and things oh really? yeah well I know Fanny Feldman Fanny Feldman yeah sure what? she studied violin oh yeah and Fanny and Bernie are very good friends and Fannie and Bessie went through grade school and high school together and they were really devoted. It was terrible when she got killed. Oh, she was killed in an automobile accident on the New Jersey Turnpike. Just I don't know that but it was just an accident. I don't know. how it happened. I never knew what happened. Of course I'm here to ask about music because I'm am aware that you and your wife have endowed a chair of the principal cellist chair at Dallas Oh yes, we've sponsored the symphony and we support them.
It's one of our activities, one of the group organizations that we support. Do you have any memories of the Metropolitan Opera and Mr. Arthur Kramer, his involvement? No, we like all forms of music, but we don't participate in the opera. I don't know too much about it. I see. No, I can't help you on that one. Okay I would like to ask you if you have any thoughts sir if you could describe in your view how the Jewish Dallas Jewish community has changed through the years Well, I think I more than hinted at it, that the Federation and everything was strictly the German-Jewish group. And now, of course, it's not, and it shouldn't be.
That's the greatest development of which I'm aware. I just grew up in a certain closed community. Did you have any Hebrew education at all? Any what? Hebrew education. Not a word. Not a word. We didn't have to take it when I was in Sunday school. And although my father, as I said, came from this strict religious background, we never followed it. And the interesting thing about it, if I might digress a minute, is that my father, who had all this religious training, I mean, he went to Hebrew school. I mean, his sister, my Aunt Lizette, lived in Need of Earn after father moved here. And I remember his getting postal cards from her written in Hebrew.
I mean, no one else could read them. But after he moved to Dallas, he became a Reformed Jew. and we had very little real observance. But my Aunt Lisette, who remained in Niedervann until Hitler came, and then of course she had another son in New York and could bring her out immediately, and she never deviated. Today she died. She would need a bite in her son's house. She stuck to it and father gave it up It really very interesting but you did observe jewish holidays in your home yes yeah we went to temple on rosh shona and we ate moxas and we lighted the candles on hanukkah but it wasn't really too strict I mean, we didn't deserve any of the lesser holidays or that sort of thing.
But there was never any doubt that you were Jewish. No, oh no. No, oh no. We always participated in Jewish affairs. Fanny, as I said, was so important with the Council of Jewish Women. And I was home for Jewish aid. Oh, no. There was nothing like that. I didn't ask you originally, but you mentioned that you had a brother. Were there any other children in the family? No. There were just the two of us. Okay. And he was a wonderful man, very charitable and very bright and sparkling. Everyone loved him. And, oh, you'll find his name on all their organizations. Yes. One of the floors of the new public library has Louise and Edmund Kahn, the symphony, the museum.
SMU on the way back. Oh, SMU, that's right. You know more about them than I do. Yes. Yeah, the Louise and Edmund Kahn chair in history, I think. Right. And also, of course, presently with new vocational center. Yeah, that's, yes. But Louise, that's Louise. Right, but it's in his... Well, she, yeah, she put his name on it, but he was interested in this outrishman of the community college. Yeah, right. Mm-hmm. I'm going to ask you if you have any, if you remember any incidents in Dallas with the KKK or with anti-Semitism? Yes, yes. I remember when the KKK... It had that resurgence in Dallas. It was when I was in the cotton business, and I remember some of the...
We just knew that certain of the people were interested in it, and they had a parade here, and so forth. But it didn't last. and there was a paper here then called the Dallas Dispatch and they really fought them. Remember they had a KKK meeting and the next day the Dallas Dispatch published all the automobile licenses and the names. But it passed. and this recent resurgence I think is unimportant. I don't think it has any real basis. But I can't remember the exact names of the people now. Marvin was one of the Marvin building. Everybody knew he was a big Ku Kluxer. but it was no direct I don't remember any incident like the last business that's been going on we just knew about it as I say it was a Ku Klux Klan day at the fair really?
yeah and parade and so forth But it didn't last, and I really had never thought of it again. And I don't think it has any relation to the present foolishness. I think that's just... Did you experience any anti-Semitism when you were going to school? Yes, there was some at Terrell's school. It was really a very strict Episcopalian group. Every morning we said the Lord's Prayer. And there were one or two of the students that had remarks I remember and had a very bad time in the English class where we studied the Merchant of Venice And they let me know that I was related to Shylock.
Not too bad. Well, it was really bad with NYU. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, it was really bad. A lot of Jewish people went to that temple. Yeah. But you experienced more there. Yeah. Well, such things as I belong to a Jewish fraternity, and in the yearbook, all the fraternities were listed. You know, they had a page. but the two Jewish fraternities they were listed in the order of establishment it has NYU but the two Jewish fraternities were always just the last two pages and it was that kind of thing but that was when NYU was on the heights University Heights for the Hall of Fame in New York but it's no longer NYU NYU now is down at Washington Square and this what was NYU I think is the Catholic school at last I heard but it doesn't exist as a university anymore no Jews ever made the junior prom I lived without it okay Was being Jewish an obstacle in business in any way?
No, I don't think so. Do you feel that Dallas is relatively free of real incidents of anti-Semitism? I'm not really aware of any direct anti-Semitism. It never bothered me much. We always knew what our limitations were, and that's about it. But they were never too bad. Father was always accepted in the Jewish group in the cotton exchange group and no one ever doubted his religion Theo Marcus certainly was well regarded No I don remember anything particular I know it as the Ambassador Hotel. Well, that's the way it was at the Park Hotel. And an interesting thing, when they rebuilt it, they took off this large porch that went all the way along the south side.
And in those days before air conditioning, every evening in the summer when it got cool, all the Jewish people that lived there, and there were several, Fannie lived there, Fannie's folks, and the Eldritches lived there, and the Aronsons lived there. They'd all come down and sit in the rocking chairs and meet. and just visit. I wasn't aware that it was called a park hotel. Yeah, and it was right on Old City Park. Right. And all of the children there played in City Park. And, of course, I lived on St. Louis Street, which was very close, and I was always in City Park, too. So that was our center.
So you're saying that the neighborhood children would gather in the park. Yeah. We were aware of that's where we played. I mean, we could walk there. Do you remember the YMHA with the cross from City Park? Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah. And that became the community center building. Yeah, sure. Did you, were you or your friends ever go to the Y? No, I never was part of that for some reason. Were there facilities at the Colombian Club for children? No, just for adults. Just for adults. I never knew anything, paid much attention to it. And later, before I got married, there were a few years in which I'd go to the opening ball and that kind of thing and New Year's ball.
But my folks were not big club people. Father did not go and play in the poker game and that kind of thing. Now Fanny father was quite different He was always with the men at the club Father didn do that What kind of business was Mr Koenigberg Oh, he had a custom tailor and very beautiful clothes. And Father had all his clothes made there, and that lasted until Mr. Koenigberg had a stroke. and he had a brother that was associated with him. And all of a sudden, just almost overnight, the brother died. And then I came down and, as I said, again, kept the books and kept it on an even keel until we could sell it.
And we sold it right during the war. It was very fortunate because everybody wanted woolens. They weren't available. Mr. Kenningsberg had quite a stock of woolens. And the OPA, I think that's what they called it, said that we could sell the woolens for our cost. Well, some of them he'd had for years, and they had no value. But Neiman Marcus came in. I remember Stanley came in, looked around, said, I'll buy it, just bingo. And he closed the, we sold out the tailoring business. Fannie, Fannie ran it. Fannie and I ran it until we could get rid of it. Because I didn't want to be in the tailoring business.
I knew nothing about it. And Fannie didn't want to. And fortunately, we could sell our inventory at cost, some of which had depreciated greatly. And we were very fortunate. And on the other hand, no matter how old the Woolens were, Neiman could make something out of them. Just for the record, you mentioned OPA. That was Office of Price Administration. Yeah, that's it. And what was their role? Exactly. That was during the war, and they had to control prices. That's right. And they had to approve of the sale of the business. as far as I know. Anyway, that's the route we took. And I'm sure it was on account of the rules, and it worked very well.
So it was like a regulatory agency. Was that just during the war? Oh, sure. Yeah. But I remember that Stanley was wonderful. He just took one look. And I'm sure he was glad to give the war. Yeah. The war. Mm-hmm.