Yitzchak Cohen
Yitzchak Cohen was born in Poland in January 1949, the only child of parents who both survived the Holocaust. His father and mother, natives who lived in Krakow, both worked for Oskar Schindler at the Plaszow camp before being deported, his mother to Auschwitz and his father to Mauthausen. Reunited in Krakow after the war, they married in 1947. When Yitzchak was still an infant, the family left Poland for Israel, where they lived in a newcomers' camp during the earliest days of the state. His mother, frail from her wartime suffering, died of pneumonia when he was five. Descended from four generations of rabbis in Poland's Galicia region, Yitzchak grew up in an orphanage for several years while his father recovered from tuberculosis and worked as a teacher.
Music became his refuge and his calling. Discovered at his orphanage by the legendary cantor and composer Solomon Rivlin, he joined the Shirat Yisrael choir and within months became its soloist, later teaching cantors himself while still a teenager. He received an intensive Orthodox education at fine Jerusalem schools and studied privately with distinguished rabbis, including the beloved Rabbi Aryeh Levine, whom he revered. Known as the boy wonder of Israel, he concertized widely, sang for dignitaries, and toured Europe as a young man. In 1965 he came to the United States at the invitation of composer Sholom Secunda, performing in the Yiddish theater and touring the country before becoming, at seventeen, the youngest full-time cantor in the country at a leading Orthodox synagogue in Washington, D.C.
In Washington he met and married Rosie, and after their first daughter was born the family sought a safer place to raise children. Drawn by the warmth and mild weather of Dallas, Cohen joined Tiferet Israel in 1970 as cantor, a role he filled for about twenty-four years while transforming the congregation's musical life. After his father's death he pursued rabbinic ordination in Israel in memory of his father, and following a grave illness in 1991 that damaged his voice, he transitioned to serving as the congregation's rabbi. A devoted teacher, he became active in the community, chairing the local rabbinic council and helping found the North American Board of Rabbis. He championed unconditional love across the branches of Judaism, supported projects such as the renovation of the local mikvah, and cherished his family, including his talented son Yaakov, who led High Holiday services alongside him.
Full Transcript
An interview with Rabbi Yitzhak Cohen of Teferit Israel Congregation on November the 3rd, Friday morning before Shabbat in the year 2000. No, you'd have to talk and see how it does. Yeah, hi Carol, it's such a great, what a way to start a day. What a way to start an Erev Shabbat. This is Carol Miller for the Dallas Jewish Historical Society. And this morning, Friday morning, November the 3rd, in the year 2000, we have the great privilege of interviewing Rabbi Yitzhak Cohen, who has been at Deferit Israel for 30 years. We are doing a 30-year anniversary party for him on November the 18th. and Dallas has been honored to have him in our community for a few months now.
So we're going to begin with a couple of questions. Rabbi, would you start by telling us what it's like to be a third-generation rabbi? Well, it's actually a fifth-generation rabbi. It's okay. No, no, it's wonderful. Yeah, it's a fifth-generation rabbi, and it feels wonderful. It feels, in a way, you know, a very important part of our religion, of Judaism, is transmitting or transmission of our traditions and our education. And in fact, in the Shema, during the Shema, we say, thou shalt teach them diligently to your children. The word of God has to be taught diligently to your children. And thank God my ancestors did that.
and it was passed down to me by my father, who was an extremely phenomenal person, a godly individual, and a great rabbi, but at the same time he was a very humble, humble individual. Could you tell us the names of the four rabbis before you and which countries they lived in? All lived. Just their names and where they lived. All lived in Poland. Starting with your great-great-grandfather. Great his name was Moshe and my great was Jonah and my grandfather was Chaim and my father was Dov And what part? Cohen, all of them Cohen. What part of Poland? Mostly from Galicia. I don't remember. As far as back as my great-great-grandfather, I don't remember.
I don't think, but mostly from Galicia, Krakow, the area of Krakow. How many miles from Krakow was Galicia? Well, Krakow is in essence the center of Galicia. Oh, so Galicia was the territory. Yeah, Galicia was Galicia, as we call it. You're right. It's eastern Poland. All right. Now, I'm going to ask you a favor. This is unusual from our normal interviews. Because of your training as a cantor and your beautiful voice, would you please, for posterity in Dallas, Would you please sing the Shema and the blessings before the Torah? Or whatever you would like as an example of your singing. I'll try my best. It is 10, 15 in the morning.
In the 10, 15 in the morning, nobody can sing well. Just sing for us, please. Do the rest. Blessing before the Torah. Do the rest of the Shema. Do you want to do the responses? Baruch Hashem kevode, malechuto leolam eva'ed. Beautiful. My voice is not what it used to be, but it's okay. It's gorgeous. Please also do the blessing before the Torah. Baruch Hu et Adonai hamevorach. That's beautiful. Has anyone ever asked you about your beginnings as a cantor? Would you tell us how you became a cantor and how you decided to become a rabbi Well music was since I can remember You know, it was a love of my life.
I just loved music. I remember myself in kindergarten. Kindergarten. I was the one who always sang out and always sang out on key, I must say, because that's what my teacher told me. You're the only one that sings on key and you have such a beautiful voice. My love with the cantorial professional or Jewish music in general, especially liturgical music, began at probably the age of five, six. You know, in Israel, we went to even the kindergarten. You studied all the Shabbat songs. Were you raised in Israel? I was raised in Israel. I was born in Poland. I was born in Poland. How old were you when you went to Poland?
I was a year old, a year old, eight, nine months old. Nine months old. Nine months old. So what year, what was the date? I was born in January of 49, and we left Poland in October or November of 49. And where did you go to in Israel? We went to Israel. Where in Israel? Those days, they settled you in what they call a ma'abara. That was the beginning of the state of Israel, you remember. A ma'abara. Maabara means it's like a camp of newcomers who came from Poland at that time, from all over. Not only from Poland, but from Europe and from Morocco and from Algiers.
So you were the early Soviet? Well, we were the early Soviet Union, definitely. Israel did not become a state until a year before. so what they did is until they settled us in so-called permanent edifices we actually lived in tents I don't remember that of course but all I remember is my parents told me that I got diphtheria everybody got something But we lived there, we were part of a thousand or two thousand people. And there were many camps such as this one, you know, throughout Israel. And was your father a rabbi in this camp? My father was not a rabbi. My father never, he was a rabbi, but never practiced his rabbinic.
In other words he never wanted to practice He was a teacher He didn have a shul He dedicated his life no He dedicated his life to teaching and until the day of his death he taught He was involved always with a learning institution. So you went to... tell me about your high school, your school and your high school. Well, I went to, so the cantorate is fine. Let's go back to the cantorate for a minute. So I lost my mother when I was five years old, and she was 28 years old. And she was, you know, both my parents were survivors of the Holocaust. So, in fact, you know, the big to-do with Schindler, you know, as far as Schindler and him, you know, saving so many Jews.
In fact, you know, he did some. Did he have a direct experience with your family? He certainly, both my parents worked for him, you know. They were not the lucky ones on the 1100. So I was exposed to the name Schindler when I was a little kid. You know, my father always used to say that in the midst of that hell, there was a little bit... A glimmer. A glimmer, you know, because there was this man Schindler who would... So your father worked for Mr. Schindler? My father actually worked for Mr. Schindler. You have to understand it. Plaschow, where Schindler's labor camp or Schindler's factory was.
It was only about 10 kilometers from Krakow. So, consequently, most people who were in Krakow were transferred into Plaschow, because it was the closest camp. Closest camp. And my father and mother were both from Krakow. Lived in Krakow at that time. They weren't born there, but they lived in Krakow at that time. And what type of work did they do? Hard labor. Hard labor. My father said that he had, one of his factories there was an iron dishes. You know, some kind of an iron. And that was the division that he and my mother were. They did not know each other at that time. It's not only after they were both survived.
They were not, of course, on the 1100 list. So they were sent. They were transported to my mother was transported to Auschwitz. My father was transported to Mauthausen, another, you know, the terrible, of course. Mauthausen was a very famous kid, famous, you know, you can call that. And how did they meet? They met, you know, I guess people had that glimmer of hope that some of their families are still alive. And if, in fact, they are, they would probably come back to the city in which they're from. And so my father, both my father and mother, returned to Krakow after the war. And my father, you know, was in the DP camp, and he was sick because the Nazis broke his leg.
And so he was laid out for, you know, for a year in a hospital with a cast, you know. and he they and he came and in fact he didn't have anybody he was the youngest of 12 children in fact he and his sister were twins so he came back hoping to find someone and of course he didn't find anyone but a cousin, a first cousin who now lives in Chicago, by the way. That's it. From my father's side of the family, that's all I had. It was my father and that one cousin who lives in Chicago. And I'm certainly very close to him and very much in touch with him.
But he met your mother in that hospital? He met my mother. No, he met my mother because he right away, he helped displaced people. So he worked with a, which is now the religious party of Israel. It's called the Agudah. The Agudah Israel. It's one of the religious parties in Israel. And they started, in essence, in Poland. So after the war, they reorganized, and my father was in charge of the people who wanted to go to Israel. So my father wouldn't leave Krakow until everybody else left, who wanted to leave, left. And my mother was in Wagyu, which was a very religious organization. that had the women's, like the sisterhood of the Aguda.
My mother at that time was a young girl and she worked So somehow they met and they got married What year were they married They were married in 47 End of 47, I was born in the beginning of 49. And I was born in the beginning. But they were both very frail. My mother was extremely frail. In fact... Even at that young age? Of course, she went through. You know what she went through? I mean, you know, she was like 16 years old when she was sent to 15 or 14, whatever. She was sent to the camp. So you can understand what they have gone through.
And, you know, my father developed TB in the camps. And my mother was very frail. In fact, from what I understand, they told her she should not have any children for whatever reason. I don't know, but that's what I hear later on from some people who knew her, you know, when she... And how many siblings do you have? I have no one, no siblings. So just you? It was just me because she died. I mean, unfortunately, when I was five, she was very ill. She was already ill, and she died from pneumonia because, you know, her resistance system was down. She died from those days, you know, you died from pneumonia.
You died from pneumonia today also, but in those days in Jerusalem, You didn't have the finest medical equipment. Did you by any chance, any of you have the experience at the hospital, the Rothschild hospital that later became the Hadassah hospital? Yeah, how did you know about it? I know about it. I just wanted to know if you had an experience with it. No, I didn't. In fact, she was not a debt. Not too many people know it was the Rothschild hospital. She was not the Rothschild hospital. She was, in fact, in the French hospital, they called it, where they had nuns and it was a very fine hospital in Jerusalem.
Because that was probably the closest hospital to where we lived. We lived in the center of the city, and that was right in the center of the city. Adasa Hospital was already... It was up on... Well, it was not on Mount Scopus because Mount Scopus was finished already. I mean, it was closed already. that was uh you know after not in 1948 but it was quite a way so but those days hadassah was not yet you know what it is today you know it was the two hospitals that really that that truly worked well were the it was three hospitals Bikku Holim Hospital it was the French and the Jewish it was Adasa and Sharetzedek Sharetzedek Hospital At that time it was near my house, I mean, you know.
Now let's go back to your singing, because that's a great part of your life. My singing, you know, really is, because consequently my mother passed away, and my father's TB came back. a bad, bad way. And in those days, you had to be in quarantine. So for two years, my father was in a special hospital for lung diseases in a city called Far Sabah, you know, which is about 100 miles from the U.S.A. And... So did you go there with him? No, I couldn't. I got, you know, I couldn't. It was in quarantine. Okay. So consequently, you know, I had two aunts, but they had eight, nine children apiece, and certainly they didn't need another one.
So who did you? And so I, consequently, I was, I had to be in a home, in a children's home, in an orphanage. So I grew up in an orphanage, you know. I didn't know. In fact, when my father came back, he also couldn't take care of me because he had to go to work. So what do you do? So, you know, he wasn't at all happy with it, but I had to. So for five years I was in the open. From what age to what age? From five and a half to about ten and a half, eleven, I was in that orphanage. And then where did you go from there?
And then, of course, my father, I mean, I was home. Yeah, definitely. I mean, he lived with that guilt feeling, I think, for the rest of his life. The fact that I had to be in an orphanage. That was something that tore him apart completely. I mean, I could see that, you know. And it was tough, and it was rough, especially when you have no family, you have no others. But I'll tell you what, that's when the music truly came to my rescue. It was a great, and I told this yesterday to the Jewish Week, that there was a newspaper that was just coming out, a brand new newspaper in Dallas called the Jewish Week.
They came to interview me While in the orphanage also again I would be the one to sing out I was never a bashful person I was never known to be a bashful person Thank God for that And you know you become when you grow up without parents and in an environment of an orphanage, any orphanage, you will learn to grow up very, very fast. You grow up very, very fast. So at the age of seven, I was in essence a 13-year-old kid, you know. You learn to fend for yourself. and music was for some reason was always the love of my life so at 6 and I there was a great institute in Israel it is the institute for the cantor you know, for liturgical music for sacred music, for Jewish music known as Shirat Yisrael Shirat Yisrael which means the Song of Israel this institute was not only known but it was known because of the person who was the head of it.
He was a legendary composer. His name was Solomon Rivlin. Rabbi Cantor Solomon Rivlin. And his specialty was working with young voices. I mean, nobody could work with young voices. They had a choir. It was known as the Shirat Israel Institute Choir. It had 70 voices, and it was something heavenly. That choir sing was heavenly. He constantly looked for voices. So what did he do? He knew that orphanages have many, you know, boys, children. So he used to go to orphanages. And he used to listen to kids sing. And he used to make a deal with the orphanages that they would let him go twice a week, you know, for rehearsal.
And when they saw Rivlin come in, of course, you know, that was a big thing. He was a legend, you know. So he comes into my orphanage, and we get this thing that Cantor Rivlin is coming in. He was at that time 70 years old already. He came in, and the institute was already about 45 or 50 years old. Really? Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, maybe thousands of cantors came out of that. World-famous cantor came out of that institute. serving throughout the world. And the Rivlin name was a legendary name in Israel. And he came in, so they said, Anybody who, so the first thing is they said, Yitzhak, you know, you got the voice, you know.
Came in, you know, and he listened to me and he said, sing whatever you, sing whatever you know. I mean, he was very, very wonderful, very affectionate. He was a wonderful guy in the world. And I sang, I said, you know, I learned a song in school, which I loved, about a week before. by the way the one thing my father insisted upon was that I would not go to the school of the orphanage that I go to the private you know to a very fine school and that was you know he made that possible for me so I went went to a school by the name of Shiloh which was at that time probably the finest I mean it's private but they we don't know about private where money is concerned It was just a school of the finest teachings that were done over there.
Orthodox? Orthodox, of course. Of course, Orthodox. Did you have instructions? We studied in third grade, Talmud, what people here today study in 11th grade. Let's put it this way. and in my high school I studied what they studied for the rabbinate today I studied in my first year of high school so you have to understand that the intensity of the intensity was incredible incredible and we studied day and night you know we loved it, it was a lot anyway going back to Rivalent so he came and he says what song is it and I said it's a psalm it's a psalm talking about which psalm was it?
you know I think it's psalm 22 I'm not too, don't even quote me You know, in Israel, we went to the Psalms. We never went by the numbers of the Psalms. This is an American thing, you know. Really? We knew the Psalms by heart, but we didn't know which number it was. You understand? Because we used to recite them so much on a daily basis, we didn't even know, you know. But anyway, I think the Psalms, the Psalms talks anyhow about, I know the Psalms by heart, you know. Sing a little of it, Lord. Well, it was a Psalm. Can you still? Yes, it was a Psalm.
It talks about my feet are standing at the gates of Jerusalem and I see Jerusalem a city that the words of King David of course a city that was woven together you know as one He talking about the old and the new and everything together And he's talking certainly about the future of Jerusalem. And he talks about this is a city where all the tribes went, you know, to... And this is a city that stands as a witness to the people of Israel, that this is in fact the house this is in fact the city which God has chosen and in this city you know he has chosen to build his house you know the temple so to speak and he's talking about the future that this is the house where all the temples will be built and hopefully we are hoping for the third temple to be built soon so I'm singing this thing and he's just standing I mean he's glowing And I said, what's going on?
He says, by the way, do you know who composed this? And I said, no. He says, I composed that song. He composed the music. So you were singing back to him his music. So I'm going to get up. And it has a refrain. And he's singing him and he's just, you know. And he says, you know, and he looks at me and he says, I want you to know, nobody has ever sung this song more beautifully and with more soul. Now, I'm six and a half years old. I don't know about soul. I don't know about beautiful. I know that this is the way I sing.
I love this song, you know. In fact, from the time I learned it in school, you know, for the whole week or two weeks before, I just learned it about two weeks before, I would go around just humming it, you know. And I figured, you know, that's the song. Now knowing that I'm standing before the composer of the song, I mean, I was just flabbergasted. Did you know that? No, he told me that. So you didn't know it. You know, he says, you know, and he's giving me those accolades and certainly he went to. So then he snapped you up. He snapped me. I mean, he went.
The greatest thing that came out of it, aside from the fact that I'm sitting here today as a cantor, and certainly I own my life and everything that I have to Rivlin and my livelihood everything But I own the fact that two nights a week I was able to leave the orphanage for two hours you know and be part of rehearsals you know Consequently, about six months later, I became the soloist of the Shirat Israel choir. Six months later? Six months later. At what age? Seven, seven and a half. No kidding. No kidding. I became the alto service. And was this an adult choir or a children's choir?
Adult and children. We had 70 voices. We had about 40 children. So he was going around picking sopranos, picking voices he wanted. Correct. And, you know, and he just, for some reason, I mean, for some reason, he just... So did you think that was Basharat Rabbi? Basharat. Everything in life is Basharat. I am a great believer in Basharat. Nothing in the world is just happening by chance. Everything is preordained, everything is pre-arranged, and it's pre... So what do you think God meant by choose life? When he said to us in Deuteronomy 30, 19, choose life, if we have the choice, what does that mean? If we have the choice, not only we should choose to live, but we should choose to live according to God's ways.
That is the idea. Choosing life is one thing. You know, life in the physical only is not good enough. But if you take the physical life and you imbue it together with the spiritual, that is the true type of life. And in fact, you know, when God said that, by the way, he said it along, you know, you have to understand what it came after. You know, I give you a choice. I give you a choice. I give you a choice of life, and I will give you a choice of death. You know, if you will follow my ways, certainly you will live. And if you didn't, then it's the debt of you.
It doesn't necessarily have to be the physical debt, but the emotional debt, the spiritual debt. A person who has no spirituality within him or within her is considered to be a really, not a living person. Yes. So when you say choose life, certainly you choose life so you may live in accordance to what God expects you to. That's the idea. That's the idea. That's my idea. That commandment. That is my idea of the commandment certainly Now we want to jump fast forward Yeah And tell us how it came that you joined our community here in Dallas Texas Well, I mean, I became this soloist, and consequently, Rivlin took a special interest in me, and he became my mentor, and I was concertizing all over Israel as the boy wonder.
I was known as the boy wonder of Israel in liturgical music. So at the age of, and he really, I mean, he studied with me personally, hours a day. Constantly when I came home, you know, as soon as I finished my homework, I would run to Rivlin. And Rivlin would sit with me and he would compose for me and he just watched me like I was. I was, in fact, his last student, really. And I was teaching cantors when I was 13 and 14 years old. At his school. Cantors used to come. People used to come and say, you know, I'd like to become a cantor.
I'd like to, the foundation, he says, go to Yitzchak. And I was already, you know, really. And I just, it was like a sponge. I was like a sponge, like a sponge, like a sponge. You know, at the age of 13, I was already a bona fide cantor. I knew everything about a cantor that there was to know. So you held classes at the school? I mean, I held classes for beginners. You know, it was a little awkward that a guy, 20 or 25, didn't want to study with me. I mean, it didn't look good But it happened Oh, certainly it happened And some of these cantors are world famous cantors today, believe it or not You know, some of these cantors are world famous cantors And they remember studying with you from age So you taught from age 13 How long did you stay there?
Well, I stayed, I mean, he died When I was 15 years old, he died At that time, I have You know, I have I probably inherited from him more than he has ever given to anybody else, much more, you know, much more. And the greatest, the good fortune, the merit that I had, that when he passed away, and he passed away on the eve of Passover, so there was no shiver and you couldn't eulogize him, and you couldn't, you know, because it was before a holiday. But 30 days later, there was a statewide, a statewide memorial to Rivlin, the legend. And it was in the great synagogue then, you know, Jerusalem.
The president, the prime minister, I mean, the president was on vacation, In Eilat, and he flew in especially. That time Shazar was the president of Israel. Salman Shazar flew in. I remember the helicopter just landing in front of the synagogue. You know, everybody just, you know, the entire state of Israel. The entire Knesset was there. The Gold Amir was there. I mean, and from all of his students, I mean, all of his students. I was 15 years old. I was the one chosen to chant the memorial service. That was unbelievable. I was the youngest, and everybody knew that he did things for me that he wouldn't do for others, or he didn't do for others.
To me, it was like studying from Beethoven, if you want to do it, from Mozart, from the master himself. himself, consequently. And I started concert, I mean, I was concert dining all along. I was invited to sing. When I was a kid, 12, 13 years old, I sang at the President's House. I was extremely well-known in Israel, truly. I mean, I couldn't cross the street before, you know, people came for autographs and things like this. I was the royal wonder of Israel. Anyhow, that's passe, of course, and now we can talk about it. No, that's wonderful. I didn't know that. Yeah, of course. That's 35, 36, 37 years ago.
So we're talking about it as back as 45 years ago. And so the cantor was, but I was a great student. I loved to study. as opposed to, you know, my friends who, you know, would do anything to get away, to get out of it. I just loved to study. I just loved it. And I loved Talmud. I just loved the Talmud and Kodur Jewish law. And I studied intense. Not only this, I went to the finest high school in Israel, the finest yeshiva high school. What's the name of it? The name was Nativ Meir in Jerusalem. Nativ Meir. And I'm talking about the finest.
And the intensity of the study there was something. And I see people at Yeshiva University today. At the first, the second year, Yeshiva University. So you came, so when you, how were you hired? So I was, no. Or how did you decide to leave? I was concertizing and I was invited to you. I was 16 years old. I was invited for a concert tour There were two years between 14 and 16 that I didn sing at all because my voice was changing you know so all the professors so to speak the voice professors in Israel you know said stop singing you know because you hear it At that time the vocal cords are very very vulnerable very tender anyway two years later it was the beginning of a the voice that I, the demands so to speak, but I was still 16 years old and I was invited, there was a famous philanthropist who came from England by the name of Sir Isaac Wolfe and who heard me doing a concert or a Shabbat service in Tel Aviv at a great synagogue and he says I'd like to bring you for a concert tour he at that time started the aid of Jewish education throughout Europe.
It was like a united aid for Jewish education. And it was his personal funds. It was his personal funds, no, but he wanted to bring me as a fundraiser, so to speak, for a concert too. So he arranged concerts for me in England, France, Belgium, Belgium, Switzerland, five European countries. What year was that? That was in 1965. That was like July of 16. I graduated high school in June of 65. I graduated high school earlier than anybody else because I jumped from 6th to 8th grade when I was in school. So I graduated high school. I was 16 years old when I was 70. So you were on this concert tour?
So I was on this concert tour, and I am singing in England at the place called the Royal Albert Hall. You sang in that oval? You sang in Royal Albert Hall? Exactly. In 1965, July of 1965, they had a special salute to Israel. And I was concertizing, and all of a sudden I get this call from a fellow by the name of Plitnik, who was like an impresario. He was like the Sal Yurok of England. Have you heard of Sal Yurok? Yes. We had the William Morris Agency, a guy by the name of Plitnik, and he called me, I'll never forget this, and he says, you know, we're having this thing to honor Israel.
I have a big salute to Israel. It was like Israel 17th birthday you know a couple of months before So he says I said he says I want you to sing two songs I want you to be on the bill After he heard you at Sir Albert Hall No He is the one who got me to Albert Hall He heard me at a concert in Manchester at a one concert And he was, so I get this call from him. He says, I'm doing this phenomenal thing. Danny Kaye is one of the stars. You know, and so I said, wow, you know. So I saw Danny Kaye in the, what do you call it, movie, you know.
Right. Christian Henderson. Hans Christian and I was a fan of his so here I am one of 18 or 19 stars mostly English and Israeli Chaim Topol was there at the time and he was my idol because he just finished that movie the Israeli movie called Salah I didn't remember Topol was there and others afterwards in my dressing room I sang and I had standing ovations and I sang a Yiddish song and I sang a prayer from the liturgy. Like a prayer for the peace of Israel or the world for Israel. The Yiddish song that I sang was in essence was a song that was written it is the main song of the first Jewish operetta.
written about 130, 140 years ago. Really? Yeah. And it was written by a person by the name of Abraham Goldfaden, and it was performed in the city of Bucharest, Romania, in Yiddish. You know, it was really a very classic. A performance was very classic. Do you have any recordings of your songs, of your singing? I do, I do. That's great. I was a little kid, one recording I had. That's it? I used to be on the radio every day, you know, not every day, but every week. And somehow, you know, that's gone. I mean, it stopped 40 years ago. It's, you know, it's outdated. It's a shame, it's a shame.
But I have a recording of mine that I put out here with about seven or eight, nine pieces. I am I sang the main song or the central song from that opera it a lullaby and it known throughout the world People don even know that it came out of this apparata It's called the Rosh and Kismet Manga. It's a lullaby called Raisins and Almonds. And it talks about, it's an allegory, really. What do the raisins and almonds stand for? In the temple, in the old temple, there was a mother that stands and comforts her child. The allegory is that the temple, you know, the mother is God, of course.
The child is the people of Israel, you know. And she says, one day you will go places, my son. You know, don't be so down on yourself. because one day you will go places and you will make something very unbelievable it was a prophecy, it was an elegoat words are unbelievably beautiful it talks about after the destruction of the temple in essence so don't worry the temple will be rebuilt again you will go and sell how will you make your money? How will you make your money? She says to the son, whose name was Yidaleh, you know, you will make your money selling raisins and almonds.
Raisins and almonds are a sign of happiness. All you need to live. Raisins and almonds. Almond is the name egos. the numerical value of a gauze is 17 17 is the numerical value of the word tov which is good and raisins of course represent wine sweetness and being fruitful and multiplying you know in fact when King Solomon built the second temple the King Solomon built the temple, he, they had a gate, a special gate. There were two gates. One gate was, For people who just lost a loved one. And on Shabbat they would come through this gate, and people would stand and they would comfort them.
And the other gate was for grooms who were about to be married. So the Shabbat before the wedding, they would come through that gate, and there would be people who would throw upon them raisins and almonds. You know, for goodness and sweetness. That really happened. Today, that really happened. Today, that's why when we have a bar mitzvah or we have a groom, we throw candy. In essence, because, you know, today you don't want to mess up a carpet with raisins and almonds. Isn't that something? So now you know where. And it came from that. I've never heard that story before. That's where it came from.
That's gorgeous. That is exactly. Not so many people know about it, but that's where it came from. So the song, Raisins and Almonds. From the operetta. From the operetta. So they tell me that there's a fellow from New York who wants to see me in the dressing room. So I get in. So I said, of course, you know. Comes here, comes a little, you know, old man. And he says, Yitzhak Cohen, you've got a magnificent talent. I said, thank you. And your name? And he says, my name is Shalom Secunda. I said, Shalom Secunda? What are you talking about? You're kidding. Everything was happening too fast.
Shalom Secunda was like the greatest composer of Jewish music in the world. What Rivlin was in Israel, Shalom Secunda was in the United States. And just let me give you an idea of one of the songs that he composed. You'll know who I'm talking about. By Mir Bistache. No kidding. It was composed by Shalom Secunda. You know, and was made famous, of course, by their sisters. Yes. Who was it? I don't remember. there were so many sisters around yes I don't remember can you sing a little by mere Mr. Shane by mere Mr. Shane I try to explain ta da da da da I know it in here I know it in Hebrew you know I mean in Yiddish so he was like a legend and I said my God you know this is unbelievable you know and he says listen let me cut to the chase as they say you know I'm here so it happens I here I was lecturing at the university as a scholar in residence and I leaving to the United States next week In about a month I starting a production of Shulamit of that aperetta called Shulamit It's a biblical space and a biblical story.
Absalom and Shulamit, you know, two people who wanted to get married and so forth. It was a love story. and and the song of course it says, listen I'm looking for an Absalom for a long time I can't find him in the United States, I just found him so he says if you're willing to, and I was going to go back to Israel now, after my tour you know, I was going to Israel, I was going to Hebrew University and whatever, or the Yeshiva, whatever and he says come to the United States for six months I'll send you an affidavit I'll send you at that time you have to send a affidavit.
So I'm in England, and I get an affidavit through the American Embassy or American Council in London, and a ticket. Within two weeks, I got my ticket. I got a special visa to come to the United States. When was that? That was in July of 65. So did you go and stay with him? Did he find a place to live? So I come into the United States on July 4, 1965, Independence Day. That's great. I didn't even know, but I see the whole city is closed. I said, what the heck is going on here? Yeah, it was a special day. Right, and all of a sudden I hear there was some band playing.
At that time it was LaGuardia or whatever airport. It was before Janet. It was not known as J.F. Kennedy yet. And I said, my God, everybody in the United States knows I'm coming. Did he meet you? Of course, he met me and he took me to his house. And we had just another. I was exposed to Shalom Secundum. And here I am. So I am, you know, getting ready for production, you know. And for six months, I played in the Yiddish Theater on the Anderson Yiddish Theater on Second Avenue. Anderson? It was called the Anderson, the Yiddish Theater. And Second Avenue was like the Broadway of the Yiddish Theater.
with Broadway's to American Theatre, Second Avenue, everybody knew. I was exposed to people like Molly P. Kahn, Alden, of course. I mean, she used to come and listen to me. In fact, she invited me to her apartment many times. I mean I was the little kid you know the little kid Who could sing The little kid who could sing The little kids could sing I mean who was an artist And I toured the United States truly I was invited With him? With that? Well, not only with that. With that, just a couple of cities. We were in Philadelphia with that, and we were in Chicago with it.
But the main thing is we packed them in, in matinees and everything, you know. And were you singing mostly in Yiddish or Hebrew or English? No, Yiddish. only it is that is an apparatus I needed you know so with that performance so after that six months what happened after that six months I was performing throughout the United States known as the Boy Wonder and and I was giving a concert in Baltimore it was a fundraising concert for one of the yeshivas near Israel a big Talmudic academy and Arthur Goldberg it was a dinner Arthur Goldberg was then Chief Justice of the United States. Supreme Court Justice was a guest speaker.
I was a guest artist. And at that dinner, a guy comes over to me and says, Listen, I'm the president of Oyer Shalom Synagogue in Washington, D.C. I am the largest Orthodox synagogue in Washington, D.C. And we are looking for a cantor. You know, this is a position which anybody would want because it's a very prestigious position. I said, buddy, I'm 17 years old. Now, this is in February. I just turned 17 in January. My goodness. You know, and I'm concertizing. I'm doing it at the same time. I'm taking in from Secunda everything he's got. You know, I am. Like a sponge again. Like a sponge.
I mean, I said, how lucky can, of course. He spent time with you and taught you as you were going. Not only taught me, I mean, from him I studied really delivery. That was his thing, delivery. So different from Solomon? Rivlin taught me, I mean, everything I knew. Information. Information. Not information, he taught me. But then he taught me he was my coach. You know, Rivlin was my teacher, he was my coach. And, you know, it was phenomenal. To be studying with Solomon Sakuna, that was, you know. Anyhow I was flabbergasted You willing to take a cantor at 17 years old A cantor like you were willing to bring our synagogue up to the top You have to understand that those were the days where a cantor amounted to something I mean everybody came to the synagogue to listen to the cantor This is, you know, this is 35 years ago.
They came to listen to the cantor. It was the end, the tail end of the golden era of the cantors, you know. Jan Pierce, Richard Tucker, all started as cantors, you know. and so Robert Merrill for that matter so I and in fact I sang with Jan Pears and Richard Dackel both of them in Israel when they came to Israel and so Jan Pears was a very close friend of mine up till Tuesday we used to correspond of course I mean I used to come to see him in his house in Urshel Mo I brought him to my synagogue in Washington for a concert and we did a concert together in Washington so you went there so I went there for a Saturday and I did the so called audition you know it was not an audition they brought me in the whole city was plastered with posters we had about 800-900 people and Sunday morning I thought it was a dream world.
We signed a contract. And I became the youngest cantor in the history of the United States. To have a full-time position, you know. No kidding. Youngest. And how many cantors do you think, how many congregations were there at that time? In Washington, D.C.? No, in the United States. No, I don't know. No, you don't know. I wouldn't have an idea. There were many congregations, of course. But this was probably one of the seven or eight most prestigious congregations, Orthodox congregations, underlying Orthodox congregation, in the United States. And what was his name, the gentleman that gave you the position there? The gentleman that came from the position.
The president at that time. The president at that time was a person by the name of Isidore Katz. I'll never forget him. He was an elderly person at the time. Isidore Katz. Anyway, every synagogue has got an easy kit somewhere, you know. So did you meet Rosie there in Washington? Yes, I was a cantor. And in 1968, again, I was always older than I was. than my years, you know. So I, you know, I was really ready to get married. I was already making a living, and a good living at that. I lived in a beautiful apartment, of course, I mean, you know. And I was still concertizing, you know.
And at the same time, I studied, continued my yeshiva studying, my talmudical studying. Never, always, always, and until today, there isn't a day that goes by that I don't put aside time to study. Until today. In fact, as we speak, I did it this morning, you know. An hour, two hours a day, study for myself. Just, you know. Two hours a day? Two hours a day. At least I study. At least. And what do you, what, do you go through the Talmud? I go through, you know, I try to study a page per day of the Talmud, you know. And you go through? And I go through the Talmud or other things, commentaries.
May I ask you a question? Do you use the Torah scroll for yourself? Do you have a Torah at home? No, I don't. No, no. Do you think that could you? In fact, the Torah commends you to write a Sefer Torah. Everybody should write a Sefer Torah for himself, you know, to have it home. But what good is it sitting at home? I mean, at least when you bring it into a synagogue, it's being read and people are listening to it. So unless you have a minion at home every once in a while where you will need the Torah in order to be read, what's the purpose of having a Torah and just sitting there?
No, it isn't. The Torah is no good. The Torah is wonderful, but it doesn't do much good if it just sits there, and then it's never read. So the mitzvah is, the commandment is, yes, you should write it for yourself. In other words, each one, if you can afford it, then sponsor the writing of a Torah, which is about $25,000, or buy a Torah, you know. But then donate it to a synagogue where the Torah will be used. So that's the whole idea. so you met Rosie so I met Rosie at the high holiday services and you know I was she born in Washington D.C.
she was born in Panama City, Panama but she came to study in Washington and so for the high holidays she stayed with a family in fact with a rabbi of my congregation a wonderful fellow his name is Claven he still is alive, Hillel Claven a wonderful, wonderful human being and he And that it You know he Well he introduced you He introduced me to Harry In fact he invited me over I was supposed to eat at somebody else house but he says no because I got a girl for you So you know the old time So it really was a little shidduch. It was a little shidduch, you know, but, you know, and I, you know, we went out and we got engaged two months later, three months later, you know, they got married about six or eight months later.
In Washington, D.C.? In Washington. We got engaged in October, and we got married in March. March of 1970? March of 1969. That's great. And in February of 1970, our first daughter was born, 11 months after we got married. After you got married, in Washington, D.C. In Washington, D.C. You know, remember, when I got married, I was 20, Rosie was 19. So consequently, today, at 51, almost 52, and Rosie at 50, almost 51, we are grandparents to four children, you know, to four wonderful children. Very lucky. I'm addicted to my grandchildren. Wait, wait, wait until you become a grandmother. I can't wait. If I'm so lucky.
If you're addicted to your children, wait until you see. Everybody was telling me, you know, you cannot describe that feeling. And I was looking at it and said, yeah, you've got to be crazy. How much more feeling can you have for a grandchild than you'd have for your child? I can't imagine. But it's a special feeling. It's just, it's like an extension of you. You know, the investment you made is in your child, and now you get that dividend, you know. Right. Now you get it. Oh, it's unbelievable. And you see in the future. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. So then, how long did you and Rosie live in Washington?
We lived in Washington only for about eight weeks after the baby was born. So you were the cantor at that shul? I was there for four years. Exactly four years, yeah. Four years. And I could have stayed there until today. I mean, that's not even a problem. The problem is that I didn't think that Washington was the place I wanted to raise children at the time. Why? Why? Because it was right during the time of the riots of Martin Luther King's assassination. And there were too many things that I saw. Too much conflict. No, it was too many people got mugged and killed. It was just going on, and I said, you know.
And I lived in Silver Springs, which was on the border of Washington and Maryland, which was about a mile away from the synagogue. The synagogue was in Washington my house was in some way Walking home from the synagogue late at night I just didn see it safe enough And I said, you know, now that I'm a family, you know, I'd like to... So I inquired of positions, and I got a wonderful offer from Chicago. And I went to Chicago, I said, you know, cold weather and everything. Then, you know, there was Dallas was looking for a canter, I was a member of the Kansas Assembly at the time, and they told me, you know, all the places.
I said, you know what, you might like Dallas. And I went to Dallas, I came to Dallas, and the first thing I liked about it was, number one, the hospitality, the wonderful hospitality. Number two, or I say number one, that I came here in February, and as opposed to Washington and Chicago, I didn't need a coat. It was 70 degrees. It was 70 degrees. I said, my God, this is paradise. That's it. That's gone Aiden all over again, you know. So I liked that already. And then the hospitality and the people thing went out. And I did, of course. Well, tell me a little bit about that, because this now gets us to your impact.
This gets you to March of 1970. The community here in Dallas. Right. So I came to Dallas. We, of course, signed a contract immediately. It was in many other candidates' position for the job. and I was a fine rabbi at the time here. Max Zucker was a rabbi here. Just passed away, you know. Yes. Went to Knoxville. He was in Knoxville before he came here. Norman said to tell you hello. Really? My husband is from Knoxville, and he knew Rabbi Zucker very well before he went to Vancouver. So it's interesting that the person who actually told me about this job was Rabbi Zucker's cantor in Knoxville, who was my best friend, who was from Israel also.
Gershon Levine. If you ask your husband, he probably will know. Gershon Levine, Kenzo Levine, who is now, whom in turn, the world works. I brought to Washington, D.C., and he's there till today. He's in Maryland, Silver Springs, Maryland, in Kenzo. So it's interesting. So he was the one who actually told me, and then the Kenzo Assembly told me, said there's got to be something here, you know. And I came here, and we just set it off. And immediately I started actually trying to elevate this congregation which didn have much of a musical background at the time The cantors who were here I would say they were fine cantors but they were not into elevating a congregation in music as much as I was Musical knowledge.
Yeah, music knowledge. So I started right away. Months after I came, I already had a concert, Jewish Music Through the Ages, which Rabbi Zucker and myself worked about. He was the narrator. I was very successful. I mean, we had members of the Dulles Symphony, about 10 or 15 members as a compliment. And it was just a phenomenal concert event. And consequently, they wanted a repeat performance. The place was packed. And in 1972, we had a repeat performance, and it was even greater. We changed it around a little bit, but it was unbelievable. and I started my own musical advancement of this synagogue, the importance of music in Jewish life, the importance of music, of the liturgy during the service, you see, and the fact that you don't have to just come to a service and sit there and be a spectator.
Yes, it's nice to have a choir. So my thing was get them involved, get them involved in music, get everybody singing, and it's done until today. coming to my synagogue and everybody rock and roll and i'd say more so and i have started the choir there was a there was some choir over here but it was but again you know i worked with a choir i worked with a children's choir and all of a sudden the entire picture of the synagogue you know changed as far as the musicality of the synagogue also of course i was very knowledgeable in the town and everything else so i was able to teach other things you know i'm very versatile in my knowledge.
Thank God. No, no, what I'm saying is... I don't want you to take it as God forbid or something that I'm boasting about. I'm saying I had the good fortune to grow up in Israel. And in Israel, blowing the shofar, for instance, was part of our schooling. It's not something you had to go to school for to learn from. Everybody knew in my school how to blow the shofar. The truck, for instance, the cantillation. That was part of our curriculum. It was not something that you had to go to as well. Something unusual. It was not something unusual. Reading the Torah was part of our curriculum.
So consequently, everybody was part of our curriculum. in my class, whether he became a rabbi or not, whether he became a recantor or not, you know, knows how to read the Torah. So the versatility was that was unbelievable. Yeah. And I am, what I'm saying is I'm thankful to, I'm thankful number one to my education, to my father who enabled me to have this education, in fact who settled me. And not only was my education, but at night I used to study two hours with a special rabbi that he hired for me. Now, when was that? Let's jump back. Jump back, you know, during my high school years.
When you were going to Rivlin also. So two nights a week you were studying with Rivlin. But then my father, throughout my school years, would hire a special rabbinic scholar. Who would come into the house? Who would come into the house, or I would go to him and would study intensely. You know. After school. After school. After dinner. Two hours a night. Two hours a night. After dinner. And, you know, but it's not... Who was it? Do you remember the name? Of course, there were many, you know, there were many. I mean, I used to go, for instance, to one of the greatest yeshivot in Israel called the Hebron Yeshiva, Yeshiva of Hebron, who originally originated in Hebron a hundred years ago, you know, when Henry had a big Jewish community.
The Rosh Yeshiva there was a legend by the name of Rabbi Hezkel Sarne. I used to my father says twice a week he gave a shiwa a discourse at night where kids who were 19 and 20 went to this shiwa and 20 and 25 and I was like 15 or 14 but I went to this shiwa that was unbelievable and just sit there in awe of the knowledge you have no idea in fact I told my son the other day you know my son said I'm studying a commentary of this and this and this you know legend you know I said you know I listened to him in person so being raised in Israel I had the the merit as we call it in Hebrew the zikhot the true merit the good fortune and the luck really good fortune and luck to be exposed to all these great people you know the people that this generation only I was talking today to a kid from Yavne High School and he telling me you know we studying the Chazonish commentary on the Torah I said I want you to understand that I was privy to meet the Chazonish When we finished first grade, you know, we went to be tested at the Chazonish's house.
You know, that was, you know, that's the idea. It was a person by the name of Rabbi Curlitz, a great rabbi, whose pen name was Chazonish. Which meant what? Because he wrote The Vision of a Man, The Vision of a Person. He wrote a book. He wrote a book called Chazonish. It was his vision. So consequently, he was known as the Chazonish, or like you have the Chafetz Chaim, you know. So we was privy to some of the great Hasidic rabbis, the Rabbi of Bells, the Rabbi of Boer. I mean to be exposed to these people to see how they deal with their flock I was in awe and you went to them too I went to them too so now these are all the great rabbis that came from Europe you have to understand left Europe to come here we're talking about 10 years after the Holocaust so they were the survivors they were the ones who were legends in Europe yet who had yeshivot in Europe.
Finally they come to Israel. The whole world has known about them, has heard about them, the whole Torah world. Different places. Different. There was from Minsk and from Pinsk and from Lomza and from Slavodka and from Mir. All these great yeshivas of yesteryear have now moved to Israel. Reunited. Reunited in Israel with those great legends. I mean, I am studying their books today. I mean, it's just an unbelievable thing. But to be exposed to them, personally that was something that you know how can you even tell a kid today what that was like I mean so as we left the last tape you could see the godliness on their faces I mean you can see that they are if you want to call a person a saint they certainly were saintly individuals Yeah, one of the probably the greatest people I've, they were all great, you know, there was no such thing as great and greatest, you know, they were all the greatest.
But one of the people I particularly in awe of and particularly fortunate to have been particularly fortunate to be exposed to and to learn with as a little kid yet was Rabbi Arya Levine, the legendary Rabbi Arya Levine, who was known as the Jerusalem Tzadik of the Tzadik of Jerusalem. Many books have been written about him. A Tzadik in Our Time is probably the most famous book that was written about him, the life and times of Rabbi Arya Levine, the person that he was, the love, the greatest love, that his entire life was based upon the unconditional love of his people, of people, of all people.
Of anybody. Of anybody. And that was this one? That was this one right here, you know, this picture, Rabbi Arya Levine. You know, there's an injunction that says that your eyes should constantly see your teachers before you. In other words, that if you're planning to do something, always see what would my teacher do about it if he was in my situation. I take it physically that constantly my teachers are before me. That's great. I wish I had the pictures of some of the other teachers. I would certainly have them all before me because they give me that electrical charge that I need, the spiritual charge.
From what year and when did you do that? Did you study with Rabbi? I studied with Rabbi Aria Levine. And when I was in Keder, when I was six, seven years old, called Eitz Chaim, you know, the Tree of Life, that was the yeshiva, which was the head of the yeshiva. And you were coming out of the orphanage to go there? Yes, definitely. Okay, that was where he was. And from there I went to a school called Shiloh, but for two years I studied there. And, you know, he was the headmaster, so to speak. But he was at that time a legend. Everybody knew him.
Everybody. He would walk the street. Traffic would stop, you know, for him. He was so much into, you know, the spiritual world. It's unbelievable. You can't even describe. One story from this rabbi that is close to your heart. Many stories. The book's written about him, so it's not close to my mind. I'll tell you a story that I myself was exposed. He loved children especially children who came from homes that were poor and who came from homes that nobody cared They didn have the attention that other children had Children didn bring a sandwich to school because they didn have and certainly I seen many many and I was sometimes one of those but he would bring extra sandwiches so he would give those children he made those particular old children but especially those children feel like they had certainly had somebody that cared about it especially those orphans and I'll never forget once I was crossing the street from the yeshiva from the yeshiva and he came into the yeshiva from the other side of the street I was crossing the street to get a bus.
He just got off the bus. And I see him crossing the street, and I'm crossing the street, and he just took me and put both his hands over my face and shook my hand and gave me a kiss over my forehead. And, you know, of course I melted, you know. It was a vial of him, you know, did this. And then I see that he goes back with me to the side of the street. And I said, wait a minute. weren't you supposed to go into the yeshiva? I said, why did you cross the street if you were going to go back to the practice?
He says, I came to greet you. I came to see you. I saw you walking around. I came towards you. That is, in a nutshell, and you need no more, the kind of person Violin was. And certainly many books. I'm going to give you a book. Thank you. It's called The Tzadik of Our Time. Is it in English? It's in English. It's in English. It was written in 17 languages. it's even studied in many schools here and in Israel in fact Bar-Ilan University and the Hebrew University uses this book as a part of ethical living when they yeah right and they want to show an example of true ethical living of true menschlichkeit so to speak they studied a book that is about Rabbi Rabbi Rabbi Oliven, by the way, was a very close friend of my father's.
Many a time they would sit and study together. Loved my father. He died in 1969. You know, I had the good fortune to see him in 1968 when I came to Israel for a couple of weeks. And he was in the hospital. I came to see him in the hospital, and it was a phenomenal visit. And so you were contemporaries with his son? I'm not contemporaries. His son is already 80 years old. Oh, okay. I'm not contemporaries. His son, in essence, he was the one. Is he still living in Israel? He was in Israel. He was a great Kabbalist. People from all over the world come to him for blessings and things.
Again, the greatness of Rabbi Levine was that he didn't think much of himself. He was like Moses. You know, Moses, what was the greatest virtue? What was the greatest trait and quality of Moses? It wasn't the fact that he was the greatest general. It wasn't the greatest leader. He certainly was not a great orator. He couldn't speak, you know. He had a speech impediment. However, when the Torah describes Moses and his greatest quality is the fact that he was, and it says, and the man Moses was the humblest of all human beings. That is the greatest. And that's what his greatest virtue was. Aside from the fact that he was a phenomenal teacher, a phenomenal scholar, a genius, a righteous man, he was the most humble of all human beings I've ever met.
Never thought. And his son is the same way. You know, hundreds of people come to him, And when I once told him, I said, this son, you know, so many people outside. He says to me in Yiddish, I don't even know why they come to me. This is the type of a person. And I come to him and he's my teacher and he's my mentor. And I don't make many moves, important moves, without consulting with him. Consequently, when it got time to be the rabbi of the synagogue, I would not have taken upon myself this unless I consulted with him. What did he say at that time?
I called him up and I said, you know, I've been the cantor here now. How long were you the cantor before you were? Oh, 24 years. And within that time, I served twice as the interim rabbi for a period of three years total. Really? So, yeah. But you see I went back to Israel in 1980 and my father died in 1988 My father was always after me He says you know you have all this teaching all this studying Why didn you just get your rabbinical I said because I don want to use it I don need to use it I a cantor This is my life He says no it always good to have it It like a doctor He went through medical school but you not practicing So what good You didn take the medical test So what good is it So when he passed away, he passed away in 1988.
In 1989, I went, I called Israel, I said, what do I need to do in order to prepare for the test? And they told me exactly how to prepare it here. And I went to Israel for three months. And I got my... You were ordained. I was ordained. Now, is it in Israel, I was told by one rabbi here, that you need only a committee of seven rabbis to be ordained? No, a committee of three rabbis. Only three? That's right. Three rabbis. Always three rabbis. So how did that, tell me, tell us about your ordination. My ordination was very similar. I mean, I studied, I mean, I prepared in Israel, I mean, at first lieutenant.
So did they give you a leave of absence from Tiferet, Israel? Yes, yes, yes. I just took a leave of absence. Like a sabbatical? Yeah, I went for my father's monument. Right, a veil. A veil, and I stayed there for three months. And did Rosie and the whole family go with you? Everybody was there. And in fact, my two children were in school there. I didn't share them in school there. So it was just Yaakov, you know. And it was an awesome thing. I mean, it was an awesome thing. I mean, three rabbis just thrilling you and thrilling you. Who were your three rabbis that you chose to, and how did it come to be those three?
I chose the one rabbi, and he chose the other two. Was it Rabbi Rivlin's son? No, no. It was a wonderful rabbi by the name of Zananes. He was the head of a very famous institution known as Magid Meisharim, which is named after Joseph Caro. Rabbi Joseph Caro. It's called the Joseph Caro Rabbinical Institution. Is that an orthodox? Very orthodox, of course. The most? Wow, the most. I mean, there is always more and more and more, and there's always less and less and less, but it's an Orthodox, certainly. A very Orthodox institution. Let's put it this way. And then you know So he picked the other two He picked the other two That were there at the time They drove me for 24 hours You know it really eight hours a day oral and written exams And actually, what you have to do, you see these books over here?
These volumes, one, two, three, four, five, six, eight, ten volumes. You have to virtually know them by heart. That's the Code of Jewish Law. Which is really four volumes. And that's all basically... Because it was dealing with daily life, dealing with... dealing with them that's part of the commentary that's well the other six a commentary but the four are actually the fourth court of jewish law written by rabbi joseph kowler by the way really he was known for the fact that he was the one in the 16th century you know in safet in the city of safet yeah okay so the 16th century about this 1550 something like this you know and then and he wrote the court of jewish law he was the one who wrote the code codified it who We went back to the Talmud and everything.
This is what I have put in order. These are all the commandments. And by the way, in order to be ordained as a rabbi, you have to know the code of Jewish law. That's what you have to know. Why don't we, in what yeshivas here in the United States, do they teach this? Many, many. Yeshiva universities. Everywhere. Oh, definitely. Orthodox yeshivas mostly. The conservatives are a little less stringent, and of course their reform is less stringent. The Reconstruction is much less stringent. But, you know, Jewish law is Jewish law. It's the way they interpret. You know, I have nothing God forbid against it. In fact, anybody that knows me, I preach all the time against labels.
That's right, we're all Jews. We're all Jews. Some are more observant, some are less observant. I love you unconditionally. And that is something that we have to learn, that there is such a thing as, you know, God knows, and everyone knows today, that there's so much hatred and divisiveness among our people, amongst our people, for no reason whatsoever, for no reason. What is the reason? The reason is because, you know, if you like... Fear? Just plain fear? I don't know. Fear of difference? I don't know if it's fear. Maybe fear of difference, and maybe it's just because you like something, just to be different, you know, I have to like, I don't like it.
Your God is different than my God. Your book is different than my book. Not an assumption that this makes me more Jewish than you. The religious cannot talk to the non-religious. They don't have respect for one another. That it You know the non is a threat and the religious is a threat and you know what We waste so much time and energy to practice baseless hatred If we take only 10% of that energy and put it towards unconditional love instead, baseless love, just loving another human being for the fact that we were both created in the image of God. And we were both here certainly serving a mission, and there is certainly a reason as to why we're here.
The world would be certainly a much better world, but I'm especially talking within our people, within our people. So getting up to the present, I don't know if this is a good sign. Yes, so the present is very simple. So I got very sick in 1991. And unfortunately, in order to keep me alive, I had to do a trachea. And again, I took the, again, when I received my ordination, it was not with the understanding that I will ever take a pulpit. At all? No, not at all. I did it in the memory of my father. For your father? And it was not because I was a cantor, and that was the love of my life.
So I looked at me, okay, so I have an M.D., but I'm not practicing medicine. That's all the history. A different kind of medicine I'm practicing. Right. But in 1991, when I got very, very ill, and I was in a coma for three months, I woke up, and I saw that I couldn't talk because I had a trachea in me. Later on, I found out, indeed, the trachea damaged the voice box. Damaged your vocal cords a little bit? A little bit. about 70% of what you hear today is only about 25% of what I used to be able to do. I was really, you know, that was my life.
I mean, I can't, you cannot comprehend. One cannot comprehend. You know, when you, when you are a ballet dancer, when you are a singer, when you are a football player, when you are a pianist, and that ability is taken away from you. One cannot comprehend the, and I was, I'm still in mourning. I'm still in mourning. I have accepted that, but I'm still, I still mourn. The loss of your voice. Oh, definitely. The loss of my ability to stand before a crowd. And of course, in the synagogue, you know, it's a different story. But I'm concertizing to do this. That's, you're in concert. You never get over it.
You never get over it. And I had to go through, you know, Much grief and much counseling in many ways. Not that I went to a counselor, a psychiatrist, in fact I did to one who was in Philadelphia and who specialized solely in people who lost the ability to do something artistic. She herself was a prima ballerina who fell off a horse and couldn't, you know, so she... Really? Yeah. So she devoted her life, a very famous girl by the name of Bonnie Carpenter, and I went to her... She helped me realize that I have another talent, and maybe there's another mission for me, and maybe the rabbinate that I wanted so much not to be in, you know, not to be as a pulpit rabbi, because I saw what pulpit rabbis go through, the politics that they have to endure, all the craziness and the mishigasness that they have to put up with and to answer questions and to be loved by everyone.
You know, and God forbid you should answer the wrong kind of question to the person. In the wrong way. You know, you're already not his or her kind of rabbi, you know, because you didn't answer the answer that they wanted to hear. At that moment. And that really, I mean, I despised even the thought of being able to be in that position. However, I always love to teach you that one thing. I mean, along with the love of music was the love of teaching. And I realized that being a true rabbi, I started to realize what that is, the true definition of a rabbi, is a teacher.
That's right. And we here see you as... And now, you know, so it gives me the ability to teach. And I took the position of the rabbi. It was an easy transition for me. You know, it wasn't like I came in cold Turkey from another city and had to, you know, win the graces of my congregation. I'm lucky in a way. I've been here for 24 years as the cantor. 24 years is a lifetime. I have named people. I have attended a prison. I have bombed at Mitzvahedim. I officiated at a weddings. I was there for life cycle events, happy. and unfortunately unhappy. So it was an easy transition for me.
It was just the perfect you know However you know that a person in his own city cannot be a prophet A person you know the Talmud says ain a bibi a person cannot be a prophet in his own A maven is a guy that comes from 50 miles away. Right. So, you know, being here, you know, and everybody was afraid that the transition would be a hard transition from the cantor to the ram. But you know what? We had a wonderful, wonderful relationship. To fair to Israel and I, I had always a wonderful, of course there are always politics and always little things, but as a whole, and I'm talking about the entire congregation.
And what do you envision now, Rabbi? Do you think you'll hire another cantor? So that here now, what would be your dream of the perfect congregation? My dream would be... To replace yourself with another 17-year-old? I mean, to have a nice young cantor here with you? I'll tell you what my dream would be. My dream would be, I have a son who is very, very talented. as a cantor. And certainly knows he has conducted the services here for the past two years. For the past two years. And so for the past two high holy days, my son, Yaakov, was the one who conducted the services.
He served as the cantor here. With you? With me, together. Well, I was the rabbi. He actually conducted the liturgical, the chanting part of the services. And he was terrific. He was absolutely terrific. and that is certainly the ultimate in nachas, as we say. Great. The ultimate in joy and happiness. He doesn't want to make his living as a cantor, but my dream would be that he lives in Dallas and certainly would at least be the cantor on Shabbat and high holidays. That is my ultimate dream, you know, to see the extension of me. And he studied with me, and he's good to be able to grow.
And not only is he good in music, but he's good in Talmud. He's good in everything. Also, again, he's very versatile in what he can do. So thank God for that. I'm very, very happy. He went to the very fine Yeshiva High School in Skokie and graduated Akiba Academy. You sent him to the... High School. You sent him... Yeah, for four years to Yeshiva High School. When did Yaakov leave here and go to Chicago? Yaakov left here when he was 13, 14 years old. Really? So from 14 to 18, you know, he... No, from 13 to 17, he started in Chicago. And how did you decide to pick that institution Well because it is known as one of the fighting Why did it was Chicago instead of Israel Well you know Israel was just too far and his Hebrew was not up to par to go to an all high school So I wanted to give him the opportunity to go to, of course, a Jewish high school.
We'd be exposed to... We didn't have one at a time. Now, thank God, we have Yavni. At that time, we didn't have it. So the people who wanted to have their children have a fine Jewish education at a high school level had to send their children away, some to New York, some to other places. But Chicago was, and still is, one of the finest yeshiva high schools in the country today. So where is it in Chicago? It's Skokie. It's a suburb of Chicago. And he studied there. From there he went for a year and a half of extensive. Talmudical studies. Again, one of the finest yeshivot in Jerusalem called the Hakotel Yeshiva, which is across from the Wailing Wall, across from the Western Wall.
Studied there, also was exposed to one of the finest. For a year and a half. In rabbis, yeah, a year and a half. Then came back and went to Brandeis. And now he's a senior at Brandeis. And he's getting married. Got himself a nice, beautiful girl, and he's getting married, God willing, next to him. So it's wonderful. Everything is just working out. But my dream would be he comes back to Dallas. You mentioned that you were hoping that he might go to SMU for business school. What is he interested in? What area? Business, I don't know. I mean, he's going to have a degree in economics, so a degree in business, majors in economics.
I don't know. So maybe he'll go to grad school. Yeah, of course, he will go to grad school. There's no question he goes to grad school. The question is, where does he want to go? I think he's about made up his mind that he will come to SMU, which in essence has probably one of the finest grad schools in the country as far as Cox School of Business. That's great. And at the same time, he can help me. I mean, so it's good. I'll have him next to me. That's the plan right now. However, back to your first question, yes, I would love to have a cantor, probably who's just out of school, so I can also help mold.
Teach. They help teach. So that would be, of course, whether it's my son or somebody else, it would be wonderful. And do you think the congregation has is at that point that they would want to do that I think the congregation doesn want another canter They very happy with what I do but the only problem is I cannot do it Do it all. All, you know, because I'm one person who takes care of multiple tasks for a 400-and-some-family congregation, which probably has about 1,500 or 1,600 people. And I'm also very involved in the community, and I was very involved in every organization. Oh, you gave me an idea.
Tell me about how you have enjoyed, you told me you were now the chairman of the rabbinic council. I was. I just stepped down about six months ago. What was that like? It was rewarding to come to a meeting to preside over. I mean, it wasn't. I don't like to use the word preside over because I'm very equal. Nobody is under me. How many rabbis do we have in Dallas, Texas now? I'd say we have about, in Dallas, about 13 or 14 rabbis. Now, does that go to Arlington and the surrounding community? We have one of our members is the Rabbi in Shreveport, Louisiana, but he doesn't have a rabbinic association there.
So he comes in for these meetings? Yes, wonderful, yes. All right. So the meetings were wonderful. They were constructive. Was it once a month? Once a month, and if we had anything to discuss or to decide on a community level, we certainly would meet as often as we needed. And will you please tell to the tape? But that was wonderful. Do you remember when you told me six or eight months ago when you were asked to go by Mr. Bronkman to New York to that? Well, I was one of the organizations I'm a founding member of and very proud to be a member of is a national organization, a national organization called NABOR, N-A-B-O-R, which is the acronym of the North American Board of Rabbits.
and that's for the first time in history of the rabbinate that rabbis of all branches of Judaism are sitting together at one table that's what Naboor is? certainly in America, it never happened before when was it founded? it was founded in in 97 ok 97 and it was backed by Brown himself and in fact he brought us all to New York and it was 39 rabbis from across the United States were chosen to be the so-called founding members and it was started by That's Rabbi, who happens to be a friend of mine in New York, Rabbi Mark Schneier, who had this idea that we should learn to sit down and talk on an equal level.
To each other. To each other and about, not necessarily about Jewish law, but about matters that extend beyond Jewish law. There are many things that we have to discuss, other things. You know, there's humanity, there's respect among ourselves, there's kashrut, there are Jewish organizations. You know, there's certainly so many things. There's a mikve, which, to show you right here in town, it was a project of everybody. You know, it was a project of reform just as much as it was a project of Teferit Israel and Sharet Vila. Tell me about that project, because I'm not familiar with it. A wonderful project to renovate the mikvah to the tune of $40,000.
When was that started? That started about two years ago, and it was started by members of our congregation. But when it was made known to the reformed congregations, which they used the mikvah for conversion purposes and other things, It was a unified, it was a cohesive, it was a collective project that everyone took part in. It was so wonderful to see the different branches of synagogue take part in something that so wonderful And this is what I talking about There are certain things that we don have to agree That unify us. We don't have to agree on Jewish law. That we will never agree. You understand.
My interpretation of Jewish law and Rabbi Stern's interpretation of Jewish law will not be the same. However, there are things that extend beyond Jewish law. and that's when we have to learn that we are together and I have the outmost respect for any reformed rabbi in the United States and in the world and to learn that they should have the outmost respect for all the orthodox and conservatives and everybody's rabbi and that's the idea it is the kind of togetherness that was never there before and the we I was invited to go to Prague it's another thing that we chose you, it was another project it was an old cemetery in Prague excavated by accident somebody was building a building and the tractors came in and all of a sudden, boom, there was a cemetery and they knew that it was a cemetery going back to the 1200 to the year 1200 but they didn't know where it was exactly and all of a sudden it's right there, what do we do with it this is a question that goes beyond you know conservative reform, reconstructionist, that this is something that we went.
So Neibor was invited by the Prague government to come in and take a look at it from all in it. From all perspective All perspective So what did they leave it there Did they leave it there Yeah we left it there No but did the city of Prague leave it sacred Yeah leave it there and make it sacred and make it a historical site And they did not put a building anymore So many things that we were instrumental in doing as rabbis, as rabbis not representing humanity, not necessarily a branch of Judaism. And this is to me a very important mission. To me it's a very important message.
And I send this message as often as I can, as often as I can. You have to remember that Hitler, on the way to the gas chamber, never asked a Jew, are you a Reform Jew, are you a conservative Jew? If you were a Jew going back eight generations, you were burned. That's it. And that's the center of it. And that should be the greatest answer in the world. That's right. And we have to realize that we should be proud of our Judaism, not necessarily the kind of Judaism that we practice. Exactly. That's all. And that's okay. That's fine. And allow ourselves to be what we are.
Allow ourselves to be what we are, and certainly not be judgmental of a person who doesn't practice to our liking. Now, how in other ways has Dallas been an example of the diaspora? how do you feel about being a rabbi in the diaspora? Well, a rabbi in the diaspora is a rabbi in the diaspora, no matter where you are. If you're in Brooklyn, New York, you know, if you're in Boer Park in Williamsburg, New York, which is probably some of the most religious sections in the world I not talking about It still Williamsburg New York or Boer Park New York It still you know However you still in the diaspora Anything outside of Israel means diaspora.
So it doesn't matter where you are and in what environment you are. Talk about how you feel about it. I feel very good. I mean, look, my dream, of course, is to go back to Israel. There's no question about it. Oh, definitely. Definitely. I can't afford to do it right now. But my dream, of course, is, you know, and somebody says, where do you want to retire? I don't want to go to a place to retire. I want to go to a place to be active. That's right. So my dream, of course, is it fit? I'd like to go back to Israel. Right now, I can't.
Financially, I cannot do it. I'd love to go back to Israel. There's no secret. and I make no secret about it. However, this is something that I'm not able to do now. Being a rabbi in the diaspora is wonderful because I am able to transmit what I know, as other rabbis do, transmit our knowledge to people who need us, people who come here who are thirsty, who are thirsty for knowledge and for spirituality and for learning and for growth. You know, so it doesn't mean, I mean, it doesn't make a difference where you are a rabbi, as long as you're able to transmit those vahmi.